Chats with Cheryl: Apple Nailing & The Parenting Trap We All Fall For | Ep. 152

It’s easy to focus on outward success—getting kids to listen, behave, and meet expectations. But true parenting happens beneath the surface, shaping who they become, not just how they act. In this episode, we uncover the hidden trap of "apple nailing"—why surface-level parenting feels effective in the moment but ultimately may miss the heart.

Transcript

Speaker 0:06

Welcome to the Parenting Podcast. I'm Sheryl Ang, and around here, we talk about the real stuff. The kind of conversations you have with friends when you're wondering, am I doing this right? If that's you, you're in the right place. We all want to raise kids who behave well, make good choices, and look like they have it all together. But are we focused on who they're becoming, or just how they appear to others? Today, we're unpacking the hidden trap of apple nailing, when we polish our kids behavior, but neglect their hearts. Because raising kids isn't about looking good from the distance. It's about planting deep roots that last. Let's dig in together.

Christie 1:08

Cheryl, I was laughing the other day. I was with a group of parents and, you know, anytime a group of people who are parents are together, what are they going to talk about but parenting, yeah? And, you know, everyone's talking about this frustration or this challenge that they have with their kid and, and we're kind of going around the circle and, and finally we just, we're like, why can we not get our kids to do what we want them to do? Like, we have this wealth of wisdom over here in their parent. Why will they not just do what we say and and I answer well That's why I wish I could have just brought them all in here to the studio with me today So you can give it to us. Oh, cuz I have that answer, right? Yes. Yes But yes, we left the the conversation with little to no answers on how to how the magic happens

Cheryl 1:56

Well, I. Right. But that is I mean, that's a huge question. Yeah. It's so true. Well, first thing I want to say, Christy, is these are good parents. I mean, they care so much about their children and they are turning to one another and say, help me figure this out. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So, I think what I would say is, it depends on what your motivation is. Okay. Okay. Are you in for the short game or the long game, right? Are you viewing parenting as an event or a process? Oh, yeah. This is a yucky answer. Yeah. Okay. Nobody's going to want the answer that I'm giving Right. um, okay. Paul Tripp. he's like my favorite teacher on parenting, And he had a great illustration. I think it addresses just what we're talking about here. Okay. Apple nailing. Apple nailing? yeah. Let's see. For example, suppose we live in Washington state. And everybody has apple trees all over the neighborhood. We're well known for that, and we really care about it. So every fall, uh, we have a little procession through the neighborhood and people are chosen to be judges, and then they evaluate everybody's apple trees and their apples that they're producing, and then somebody gets the Uh, trophy okay. And they get to keep the little apple trophy in their house for the year, bragging rights, and then they do it all again the next year. Okay. So let's say I'm really covetous. You've been winning. you have beautiful apples I haven't won in a long time. In fact, my apples are shriveling up and they're not really doing really well and I'm frustrated and I want to win that trophy. I realize. I can do something. So I go out to a big apple market and I buy the most luscious, beautiful apples that are being sold. And I come home and then at night I crawl up in the tree and I start nailing the apples all over the tree. I cover up my little shriveled apples and I nail these beautiful apples all over the tree. Okay. So then they're way up. from a distance they look perfect! And then everybody comes by the next day and they look up and go Oh, look at Cheryl's apples they look luscious. They're beautifully clearly you have won and I get the trophy but Is my tree going to actually produce great apples?

Christie 4:30

No, eventually you're going to get those rotten, rotten apples again the next year.

Cheryl 4:34

Because it's a short term, superficial answer, but I got what I wanted out of it, a trophy Instead of working on the long term solution, And if I cared more about my trees than I did about myself or what other people think about me, all those. I see judging the shininess of my apples. would have a, what do you call it, an herbologist or an arbor, an apple, an apple, an applologist just come out and tell me, oh, you need to be putting more vitamin B on it and the soil and the soil and add this and then graph this in. Right. And it's, A long term solution, but I might think, wow, I won't get that trophy and I want the trophy, NOW!! Okay. So here's the problem in parenting. I think a lot of times we nail apples. to get the quick response we want rather than. Take the long, slow, grueling, micro work of what parenting really is.

Christie 5:40

Wow. Yes. Guilty as charged.

Cheryl 5:43

Me too, Christy. That's why I can recognize it.

Christie 5:48

It's happened at our house for sure. I mean, it makes you feel good to have big, shiny apples on your tree. Look at this. Look what I've done. Other people want you to have shiny apples on your tree.

Cheryl 6:00

And if it was bad when I was active parenting with Instagram and tic tok with all the exposure. People see that and they go, wow, look how shiny their apples are. Whoa, look at all that she does and their children are doing this and look how she's so natural and how she does everything whatever it is. The kids are getting all these scores and they're doing everything. And to get to that quickly may actually be apple nailing. Right. Wow. So, okay. So, I'm thinking of some potential possibilities that you might say, but tell me what are some examples of how we do this? You mean how we do the yucky apple nailing?

Christie 6:41

Yes, what are ways that we try to nail apples to our tree Oh, there are a lot

Cheryl 6:45

of them. The problem is, We get either worn down in parenting or sometimes we seek a quick solution. Okay, and parenting really should be in for the long game, and if I'm really trying to do what I should be doing as a parent, I should be caring about my children's hearts, not what gets results Because it's like that apple nailing. Their hearts are who they are really at the core. That our hearts determine who we really are. And not superficially what works I know all those parents, if I asked them, they would say, of course, I care about my Children's hearts. And the problem with apple nailing is we're doing things that don't get to the heart, they're window dressing on the outside. But we think we're getting there.

Christie 7:39

So you're talking about their actual true character rather than just behavior modification.

Cheryl 7:44

That's exactly right which is hard,

Christie 7:46

right?

Cheryl 7:47

I mean, I want my kids to have the character. So I'm not just nailing their behavior. Yes. Yes. So what are examples of Apple nailing in our parenting? Well, one that I can think of first that has kind of ugly sound, and I would have denied it if you'd nailed it on me, in the past, and it's bribery. See how horrible that sounds? Mm hmm.

Christie 8:11

Bribery. In, in our parenting. Okay. Like, give me an example., how do you see people bribing their kids? Okay.

Cheryl 8:19

The truth is, we want our children to do the right thing for the right reasons. Right. Right? Step by step by step, my life is made up of, who knows, a million little choices, or seconds. And it really matters, the step by step. And the problem with parenting is we're so bogged down with so much, we forget that the little steps matter. So think about this. I want my six year old to learn to share with his sister, Right so i want to to encourage a heart that's generous, shares, all of that. but what if I say If you'll share your cookie with your sister, then I'll give you another one which doesn't sound too bad, Right And so then I think, oh look, he has learned to share. But Christie, has he really? What did he really learn? He learned that if I just do this action, then I'll get a cookie. And that's really nice apple nailing. It looks sharing on the outside, but it's not at all working on the heart. There's nothing in that that's motivated or encouraged a heart that wants to be generous, that wants to share with his sister, except when he benefits. And that's where we were before I even started to ask him to share. Does that make sense? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And that's why it's apple nailing. It's like in that neighborhood. I tacked up beautiful looking apples that impressed everybody from a distance, but was off just Window dressing. I wasn't doing anything for the tree or the long term benefit of my orchard, but it looked really good. And that's what apple nailing does. When we're trying to get an result and we're not trying to go for the heart. That doesn't mean we'll always get to the heart. You know, that's a long time project. But Christy, that's what I want to do. I want to try and stop myself from going for the superficial answer because it works, because I'm tired, or because it looks good, or you think it looks good, or my co op thinks it looks good, or it really pleases all the, um, family at Thanksgiving. If I can stop and be mature And think of what's best for my children that I want to take the time to think about how can I get to their heart rather than polish those apples on the surface.

Christie 11:01

Yeah, the kid wants the cookie, the parent wants A non eventful afternoon with the little sister not upset and so parents using this manipulation to get what she wants and the kids using the parents opportunity to get what he wants but you're saying no real change has happened internally to want to be a generous brother and share with their sister.

Cheryl 11:25

Yes, exactly. Let's see, what would be something with teens, um, I think we would all agree that it's appropriate parenting to set a curfew if you feel like you should with your teens. Mm hmm. but let's say you have a fifteen year old. Who's not abiding by what you've said. They're supposed to come in at 1030, and they regularly are not making that deadline. you choose to handle it by saying, If you'll come in tonight at 1030 like we asked you, we'll let you go to that party on Friday night. Huh, and what I'm doing is On a lot of levels, it's apple nailing because I'm trying to actually bribe them to do what they've been asked to do. And one of the biggest things we want our children to learn out of a home, and absolutely during the teen years, is to learn about consequences for their choices and behavior. And so, that shortcut, apple nailing, bribery, is preventing them from having the wonderful benefit of feeling the burn and opportunity to learn from consequences from their choices but it's a long term process. And if we cut short by doing something like bribery, we may more quickly to get the behavior we want. I'm resorting to bribery to get short answer compliance to what I want. But I want me, to realize that's doing something superficial that will never get to their hearts. Right. I want to be making the choice, as much as I can, to do things that go to their heart, like holding them accountable to their choices. Rather than the quick fix, the answer. Okay, and I need to be aware of it.

Christie 13:21

So, you're really saying, like, Behavior modification like just getting the behavior to be what what you want it to be out of your children

Cheryl 13:32

Yes, and it's such a trap in parenting. Mm hmm. Okay, I'm just guilty as charged I have both my hands raised right now, right that so many times I worked on What it looked like or they complied to instead of taking the It's a mature road of going, is this really getting to the heart that I want to change?

Christie 13:54

Well, and it's, you know, hard because onlookers, whether that be parents, in laws, you know, friends, all the things, they're all wanting to see a well behaved child presented to the world. And so that's what we want because that's what our pride wants. It really is.

Cheryl 14:14

And the slow Parenting of, you know, the process parenting and me walking alongside of them looks really messy to other people. Mean, we've all seen the ones that are all tidy and they have their bows and tell the story again, like where you all went to the mall and Tim was getting,

Christie 14:34

that's right. And I thought it

Cheryl 14:36

was, it's a perfect picture of what we always try to do

Christie 14:40

with Apple nailing. Yes. Well, I was standing there waiting on Tim to talk to the person at the phone stand and your kids ages are probably. Gosh, I don't remember. Probably 10 down to two or so. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the youngest is two and, and they're all, you know, dressed cute or whatever. And I think these ladies that are walking by, they're, they look at me and they're smiling and I'm like, oh, they think our kids are so cute. And I'm feeling really good about them. What beautiful apples you have. They're so shiny. Yes. And then I look down and my youngest has her dress. Yanked up way up underneath her chin, her diaper exposed the whole world. She's like sucking her thumb with one hand and are playing with their little belly button with the other hand. And, and, you know, it was just a sight to be seen. And I'm like, Oh man, humbled so quickly. And you know, that's just a funny example, but there are also times that maybe their behavior was perfect at a birthday party or in a store. But it was because I had just come down too harshly on them before we walked in or, you know, and everyone's in a grumpy mood, but sure are well behaved.

Cheryl 15:48

Yes,

Christie 15:49

It's not the goal that we're after as parents.

Cheryl 15:52

And behavior is important, okay? But all my things I do if it's behavior modification, if it's apple nailing it's just not going to get to their heart.

16:04

Mm

Cheryl 16:04

hmm. I will tell you one thing is I had to try and learn that my children were not a reflection of

16:11

me

Cheryl 16:12

Because like what you're saying you were going. Oh, I'm just the perfect mom and they see me all of that. And so much of the time I felt like my children reflected on who I was and it was all about me me me and Instead of how can I love this child best in this moment? One of the things I think of is letting your children kind of be who they naturally are with their personalities that don't look maybe like beautiful apples that other people seem to be presenting. The standard apple. Yes That maybe they want to dress in a way that's more expressive or I'm not embarrassed when they can't respond to the level that other people are around them. They don't run as fast or maybe they're struggling academically. And other people going in, look, at our children here's our trophy from the debate competition that we bring home. And I'm feeling the sting of not trying to polish my apple so I can go, well, look at this. And so I don't want to shine my little apples up to present them in a way that's not who they really

Christie 17:25

are. Well, and then they pick up on that, um, if they do know that about us, that there's the people pleaser that's going to manifest in them. Yes. It's to please mom and dad to do exactly what it's going to take to get that pat on the back from mom and dad in all things. And that's not a heart change either.

Cheryl 17:45

exactly. And it's so hard to fight against because people pleasing makes parenting and everything else easy for the recipient, right? Because you get what you want. And I worked very hard, not saying, oh, wow, your apple's really well polished but instead trying so hard to reward and affirm their effort, and their diligence, and their character, rather than the achievement.

18:11

Mmm.

Cheryl 18:12

it's okay to reward the achievement. Yay, but wanting to focus on their character because that's not behavior modification. That's the long

Christie 18:22

game. Well, and it's so interesting because when, when you're in group settings or talking with another friend, you know, when we're giving updates on your kids or how so and so doing. That's not what we lead with often. We don't lead with they have been working really hard at this or I see them, you know, growing in kindness to their friends or we always lead with the accomplishments. Oh, well, they just accomplished this. You know, they just won this award and they're headed to this college or, you know, and that's a shame that we're not thinking of character as important as achievement,

Cheryl 19:02

exactly I understand, you know, back to that group of parents, how do we get them to do what we want them to do?, That's why parenting is hard because it's long obedience in the same direction. Yeah. And that I stay in that and then that fight to resort to the behavior modification Yeah, I want you to sit down when I ask you to, but the main thing I want to do is work on your heart, that you're willing to listen and To do what I ask, because long term, that will serve them well in their lives, not just make my life easier

Christie 19:41

And so maybe I go back to that group of friends and say, Hey, think about that thing we want our kids to do. And let's ask ourselves, why do we want that?

Cheryl 19:50

Man, that's an excellent question, Christy. That would probably make for a pretty interesting conversation. Mm hmm. Oh, you know, because some of

Christie 19:59

those things that we want for our kids are for ease of life. Yeah. Well, particularly

Cheryl 20:05

ease in parenting. Right. It's really nice if we go, Okay, everybody, let's be kind and clean up. And, you know, oh, can I do Billy's work for him? Right.

Christie 20:13

Everyone wants the wins and the, you know, it's for our pride. Yeah. But characters built on the hard road, then sometimes the bragging rights aren't worth it.

Cheryl 20:23

Yeah, I don't see anything that's not behavior modification that's the short route to having the kind of people we want our family to become and even the family we have right now. The short route is kind of the easy road that really doesn't do the long term work. you know, there are ways of losing weight that are very effective, but they're not long term, healthy, life changing. Life changing. Uh, lifestyle decisions

Christie 20:54

And can be even more damaging, not helpful to your body.

Cheryl 20:58

Yeah. Yeah.

Christie 21:00

Which is really going to develop our own hearts and we'll grow in humility. We'll grow in patience. We'll grow in genuine love for our kids as people. Wow.

Cheryl 21:11

Do you see a circle we end up with

Christie 21:13

every time? It always comes back to our hearts, doesn't it?

Cheryl 21:16

You know, and my heart never grew with any behavior modification or apple nailing at all, ever. One more thing before we go. If we apple nail and shortcuts, we are undercutting their chance to really develop character, um, for them to develop patience, to learn to wait, not because I'm bribing them to wait, but they learn to wait until it's their turn. That develops this patient heart that you and I are trying to get.

Christie 21:44

Well, and, you know, just to kind of manipulate the analogy a little bit. It robs our kids of dignity. If I were a tree and I knew somebody went out and bought these apples and nailed them to me because they were not proud of the fruit I was producing. Wow. That, that is demeaning to our children to not say, Hey, I want to cheer you on. I don't need to manufacture something that's not genuine and authentically you. I want to cheer you on to grow into a person of quality fruit.

Cheryl 22:19

That's fantastic. We don't want to leave you a shriveled up old tree. Right. Excellent. Wow. Thank you so much, Christy. There are so many ways we could take this. Okay. Parents, hang in there. Keep loving. Keep persevering because it is worth it.

Speaker 2 22:41

I know how exhausting parenting can be, especially when the progress is slow, when it feels like nothing is changing, when you wonder if all the effort, the patience, and the care you're pouring in is making any difference at all. But trust me, it is, even when no one sees it. Even when it feels like you're planting seeds that just aren't growing fast enough. I love this quote. Most of the important things in life happen in the spaces where no one is clapping. And that's parenting, isn't it? It's long, unseen work, but just because the roots are hidden, it doesn't mean they aren't growing. So here's my challenge for you this week. Where might you be nailing apples instead of nurturing roots? Where are you chasing quick results instead of trusting the slow, hard work of parenting? And if you need encouragement, I'm here. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Reach out anytime at contact at the parentingpodcast. com or DM us on social media. Keep showing up, keep loving them well, and I'll see you next time.