Holding the Line Without Holding Them Back | Ep. 170

What does it look like to give your kids space to grow—without giving up your role as a parent? In this episode, we talk about holding steady in the push and pull: letting kids be their own person while still leading with clarity, connection, and calm.

Transcript

Cheryl: 0:06

Today on the Parenting podcast, we're digging into something that nearly every parent wrestles with at some point. How do you give your kids space to be themselves and still leave them with love and clear direction, even when the socks don't match and the personalities clash? I'm Cheryl Lang, your host. Let's talk about what it looks like to stay steady, hold the line. And still cheer them on as they become who they're meant to be. I got a really good question from a parent and I thought it would be fun to talk about it. Okay. Okay. Here it is. How can I let my kids be themselves while maintaining healthy discipline and boundaries?

Christie: 1:02

Wow. Did you give her her million dollars? That's the

Cheryl: 1:05

million dollar question. Isn't

Christie: 1:07

that? Yeah.

Cheryl: 1:07

There's so many parts of this question I like. Mm-hmm. Now, I know that we have explored different things. Like a few weeks ago we talked about the relationship bridge, and I mean, we kind of talk about these things all the time. Right. But I'll tell you what I really liked about the question, because they're saying, how can I let them. Be their own selves, right as individuals. And yet be a healthy, loving parent. Mm-hmm. That has boundaries. Yeah. And stays in appropriate control as a parent. We've approached it different ways, but I've never had the question quite asked like this. Well,

Christie: 1:41

yeah. It sounds like this is a person who's really, um. Mindful and aware of Oh yeah. Of themselves and others and has really good perspective. I know a lot of times my goals in parenting, especially when my kids were young, is how do I make my day easier? Absolutely. Like I just wanted to know how to make them be obedient and get through the day a little easier.

Cheryl: 2:00

Well, and. I will say a lot of the questions that we've gotten all these years mm-hmm. A lot of'em are, you know, how do I make'em do what I want'em to do? Right. How can I make it easier? Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Christie: 2:12

Right? Yeah. I mean, we have to survive, we have to get through our lives. But this is really like we talk about with the long game of parenting. Yeah. Thinking about the, the 40-year-old we're raising and how we're gonna get to that point and help our kids get to that point.

Cheryl: 2:28

I like that because I think that's part of what this is.

2:30

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 2:31

Like considering who they are. Right. Like what you said. How do we do this? And I think long game is the beginning of it.

2:38

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 2:39

And just before we jump into that, I like the idea of healthy. Yeah. So let's describe that. What does it mean to have healthy family Parenting relationships.

2:52

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 2:52

Um, because nothing's perfect. It's not like everybody does what they're supposed to. And, you know, everybody volunteers to clean the table when it's not there night. That's not, what we mean. so how would you describe

Christie: 3:05

healthy? Wow. Well, I'm thinking of your really great definition for differentiation. I think that's a big part of this is that we're working on, from birth, we talk about all the time from birth, we're helping these children that we're given grow in their own independence and autonomy into their own adult selves. And we are here to help shape and guide and mold and, and encourage them along the way, but eventually they are going to be separate from us, that's healthy.

Cheryl: 3:37

Well, the additional part of differentiation is learning to be your own independent, autonomous self. Mm-hmm. within the context of relationships.. Right. Because somebody can go and be in their own, you know, whatever the Tom Hanks movie was, where he got, he ended up on that desert island. Right. Okay. He was autonomous uhhuh and he was independent, but not within the context of relationships. Yes, yes. And. Matter of fact, that movie showed that when he was in the context of relationships, they weren't healthy. There wasn't abounding. So I think That, is a really good, basic general idea of healthy. That if everybody's parents and kids! are working on that in the family. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Okay. So now how do we do it? You talked about the long game. Yeah. Talk a little more about that.

Christie: 4:20

Well, I think, you know, it's, it's real easy to get caught up in the moment of, you know, just potty training or just yeah, learning math or just, um, you know, which sport they're gonna do. But when we're really looking at their heart, the character that they're building, And that we're building in them. That's who we're really working on the person they're going to be. Yeah. In their adult life. Yeah. And it's not just about whatever the action or the, the opportunity of application is right now at 4, 6, 12, but the, the person that they're

Cheryl: 4:56

becoming Yes. And in view of releasing all along. Right. All the way up. Right. Another thing I think that would be helpful with this is, as we always talk about. To get expectations on the table. Mm mm-hmm. For people to know what's going on, what you really expect of them. And one of the ways is that analogy of the big rocks. Yeah. Um, for them and for us that, for the long game, the big rocks would be their personality, their individuality, um, sharing our values, things like that. But also for the family that we go. We're gonna try to major on the major. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And let the minor go. So if nobody knows what the important rocks of our family are. Mm-hmm. How can we stay focused

Christie: 5:42

on it? Right. Like you said, it helps us and them because when we really identify what those big rocks are that we don't wanna sacrifice at all, we, we wanna hold true to these values in our family. It helps us make those decisions of What we don't have to worry about fighting over, you know, we can let that go by the wayside. Okay, fine. Wear mismatched socks. It's not a big rock.

Cheryl: 6:03

That's very good. So we can discern between what's individual choice or style mm-hmm. And what is important. The problem is, Christie, a legalistic set of rules and enforcing those is a whole lot easier and simpler, and actually easier to gauge than what we're talking about

Christie: 6:24

Yeah.

Cheryl: 6:25

where you have, basic principles. Core values, non-negotiable, big rocks that you continue to circle back to, because it's a lot easier to print up maybe a list of, these are the 20 rules our house lives by, and post those on the refrigerator and enforce that because that just doesn't get to the heart and. I don't think that's the healthier, relational way to parent and live as a family. Does that make sense?

Christie: 7:00

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the issue is with the word rules on something like that. Yeah. Where of course we all have values that we would love to inspire our kids to rise to or, or to value as well. But as individuals, they will have different values than we do. Possibly. Yeah, I mean maybe, probably. And I think, you know, going back to that big rock idea, if, if we're going to have something that we stand firm on, we need to have as few as possible so that those non-negotiable things that we're not willing to let go of. Um. Like you said, a long list really isn't attainable and it's not enforceable. You can't make a child feel something you, you can, you know, expect maybe their actions to fall in line with what your expectations are, but you're never gonna make another person value or internalize what you're commanding them to. That's really good. Well, and,

Cheryl: 7:59

the thing is, we don't want to superimpose our values.

8:03

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 8:04

However, that's why I like the idea of a short list. Yeah. You know, like we will show respect of the dignity and worth of the individual. Mm-hmm. To me, that would be like number one on the list of how we're gonna live with each other in our lives.

8:19

Right.

Cheryl: 8:20

And instead of having 20 things that described what we are not going to do, I like keeping it short and not defining all the ways that that's going to look. Mm-hmm. So we can, uh, apply it as it works in the moment.

Christie: 8:36

Right. Yeah. For example, thinking of the original question, maintaining healthy and uh, healthy discipline and boundaries while letting kids be themselves, you can't make a child love and enjoy a certain sibling. Yes. Maybe there's a personality conflict and they're just never really gonna be best friends. Mm-hmm. But. You have to respect the person and you can enforce that as, like you were saying, the value of another person. We'll, always, yes.

Cheryl: 9:03

We will always share. We will always. And instead of that taking the time I mean, it takes a lot of time mm-hmm. To parent. And when we have principles We can apply rather than hard, And fast lists and rules, Right. We are freer and our family's freer.. Yeah.

Christie: 9:24

And that's gonna look different in every family. You have to ask your yourself what these non-negotiables and principles would be for your family. And then, like we said, try to have few of them and then stand firm on them.

Cheryl: 9:36

Mm-hmm. Also, we've mentioned boundaries and again, I want us to do a book read with boundaries for kids. Mm-hmm. Okay. Because we keep talking about every week. Just said values, and then I would say as a subset of it, is to talk about what boundaries and expectations are. Mm-hmm. What we would say, uh, as they get older. If your family has that value, you could have a boundary with the older children, we expect that you contribute this much in the way of family chores.

10:06

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 10:07

Easier to do when they're littler more. Complicated as they get

10:10

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 10:11

Older, but I really like talking about it. Yeah. So we can say, this is what we expect, here are the boundaries. Right. But particularly as they're getting older, they don't have to wonder, mm-hmm. That they know where the boundary is, mm-hmm.

Christie: 10:26

Yeah. Yeah. Giving clear. Information at the forefront mm-hmm. Informing the child well of your expectation. And, and the reason why I think when you are setting boundaries or offering any kind of discipline, explaining to your kids, Hey, this is why, this is our policy on this is really helpful. Um. They may not agree or enjoy it anymore than they did before, but at least they heard why, that you have a reason why. It's not just arbitrary rules because you're the boss and you know, a part of that though you have to be careful, you know, when you're explaining they're not coming in with negotiation, you know, you're not negotiating, you're just explaining.

11:09

Yeah.

Christie: 11:10

Um, but yeah, I like what you're saying about just. Taking into consideration all the circumstances and the nuance of it all, rather than we are a family of commitment no matter what. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Cheryl: 11:21

You know, you mentioned a while ago about explaining why, because we're talking about this healthy thing and how we. Direct them well and keep boundaries and keep the relationship. And I did explain a lot to our kids. We spent a whole lot of their lives talking about everything, explaining it. But just a heads up on it. One of the things I began to discern is, particularly as they move through their teens towards young adulthood, that a lot of times kinda like you were saying, they wanted to talk about it. Honestly, so they could weaponize it against me. Yeah. And they were like a lawyer in court Yes. Writing down the things I was saying so they could turn around and fire back at me and argue. Right. And I want there to be a give and take. Yeah. And it's different from when they're four years old. I want there to be this give and take, but I also. Feel.

12:19

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 12:20

Really, they're kind of being disingenuous. They may not know they are, but, sometimes after we've talked about something and it's clear, the boundaries are clear, the expectations are clear, we've discussed it all, and they go, mom, I, I really don't understand. Could you please explain to me again? And this happened to be on numerous occasions. And I go, okay, we've already talked about it. And you know what my answer is? My answer is still no. I will be glad to explain it again, but you can't argue back with me at all. It's not gonna change the answer. Yeah. It's not gonna change the answer. And every single time they said, well, nevermind. Right. And I'm not trying to. Villainize? No. That age group, but they are out for their agenda. Right. And I got sucked into the agenda. I didn't know, and I spent a lot of time going over it over and over again because they weren't really seeking to understand. Mm-hmm. Um. They weren't respecting

Christie: 13:14

boundaries or expectations. Right. Well, and the funny thing is, I mean, it doesn't feel funny at the time, but they're really just exercising in a really immature way. Something that you'll be really proud of when they're an adult. That's right. You know, when they're dealing with an unfair boss or you know, any kind of injustice, you want a person who's gonna. Stand up with a voice and be able to argue a good, you know, well argued point. Yes. And so these are the things we're working towards them being able to do. We're just kind of caught in the crossfire in the meantime.

Cheryl: 13:44

Yes. I've thought a lot of my children probably could be Supreme Court justices, yeah. Because they really honed their skills.

Christie: 13:52

Yeah. Well, Kind of on that same point, you know, we were saying as few non-negotiables as you can, and I think that's where this kind of meets that of the, the less I have to say no, okay, I'll, I'll leave this, you know, open. But there's a possibility they may respect my no more if I'm not saying no quite as often.

14:13

Yeah. Because I,

Christie: 14:14

I know that there were times where I could say and say, honestly, hey, you know, I try to let you have as much freedom as possible. Mm-hmm. But this one's gonna be a no. And you know, sometimes they received that well and other times they didn't, but. I think you have a better chance of them understanding, Hey, my mom is typically pretty fair and understanding of my side of things. And that just, it helps your case when you do have to put your foot down on something.

Cheryl: 14:41

Very good. And as we're walking through this and talking about having our negotiables, and non-negotiables and our big rocks and values, also, I think one of the things, and we've said it before. But be sure you're clear on priorities versus preferences. Mm-hmm. And it gets really important as they move towards their full releasing adulthood because. If we're building into them and they're becoming individuals, they're gonna start having a whole lot more preferences. Yeah. Than they did maybe at four years old. Yeah. And so for me to help do this healthy thing and to parent them, and yet allow them to be individuals, I need to keep asking myself. Is this a priority or is it

Christie: 15:28

a preference? Right. Yes. That's been a huge thing at our house, you know, having all girls, A lot of that came through clothing and appearance. Yes, yes. And we, out of the gate, I was one that liked the smocked dress and the matching bow and the color coordinated outfit, and I made it about three years before they started having opinions of. Pattern mixing and crazy combinations that I would wanted to say no to. And I don't know where some wisdom came my way to let them have. Oh, good. Some creativity in how they dress. And there were times, you know, we're gonna wear the dresses. I got you. That kind of thing. But for the most part, I would let them have a lot of freedom in that. And sometimes I was embarrassed, I'll confess. Yeah, when I would go places, I'm like, oh man, am I going to, you know, make her change or am I going to embrace this? And sometimes I would go just humiliated thinking, okay, I am valuing her individuality in this moment. But man, it's hard. And a lot of times, I mean, I remember, we still actually say this when I'm asking my girls' opinions, I'll say, say it back to me. But you know, we'd be in a dressing room and I would say. Uh, no, I'm not spending my money on that. You're welcome to spend your money on it, or I would say I don't prefer it. If you feel good in it, wear it. And so yeah, just taking into account preferences over if it's an, you know, absolutely not appropriate.

Cheryl: 16:51

And see not appropriate. Each family has to figure out where that boundary is. Yeah. And what age, right. Because. The freedom I would give a 17 and a half year old with what they're gonna wear. Sure. Is different from a 22-year-old and it's different from what, a 10 or a 13-year-old. Yeah. So it has to be all that freedom. And I'm gonna push back a little bit'cause you said, well we would all wear the dresses, but what if you had one that did not want to do that and they preferred jeans and a nice shirt. Yeah. And then we're just saying girls in this case, right?'cause you had all girls. Right. And one that did not. Mom, I don't want to wear that dress. I don't want to look like my sisters a young mom I know was doing something and she prefers a certain really cute style. Mm-hmm. And she has one who is artistic on her own and instead of everything matching and cute Right. And I'm talking under 10 uhhuh. And she just might be, you know. Pink sparkling on the top and blue, flat on the bottom, and then green shoes. And she just thinks she's so cute. Mm-hmm. And I'm so impressed with that mom going, wow, I love your colors. This is great. That's so good. Because I know the mom's just in inside going, oh, just what you're

Christie: 18:04

saying. Right. You know? But it starts young. You have to start embracing and celebrating them young or else. Like we talked about on the bridge episode, you're shutting down, that's how you put things on the bridge and keep those barriers up. That's right.'cause it just doesn't matter. Yeah.

Cheryl: 18:18

You know, of course you wouldn't want them to go to a formal event in short. Right. We're not talking about that. Right. We're just talking about everyday life. Yeah. You know, we're sitting here thinking about expectations and how do we do healthy? And we've ended up kind of focusing on girls because you had all those girls.

18:36

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 18:37

And,, one of the things that's different that. You didn't have to deal with is the energy and vitality that a boy brings. Mm mm-hmm. The moms out here who have had a number of boys, they're just nodding their head right now because boys just bring energy and force and noise and bumping and jumping and rolling on the floor that girls just don't have that same thing. And so I've had a number of Particularly mothers over the years say, where's the line between this is too rough and this is okay because you're just letting your energy out and you enjoy it.

19:13

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 19:14

Um, a good friend of mine, and we would get together and we had older daughters the same age, and then our youngest sons were the same age, and when they were six to eight along in there, and we would go to each other's house with. In a minute of arriving, the girls are doing nothing but Hmm. Talking together. Mm-hmm. And the boys literally are rolling on the floor fighting Oh. And pushing each other. Oh gosh. Not beating each other up. Right. But just the contrast was astounding.

19:42

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 19:43

And so I don't have an answer for this, but what I wanted to say is particularly, talking to moms, be very careful. About your expectation, your boundaries. Mm. Where. Like this cross-gender where a boy might be expressing himself appropriately mm-hmm. In his masculinity and his energy that your frilly little girls just aren't gonna do. Right. And then that's a good conversation. If you're married, have it with your husband and then figure it out so we can allow them

Christie: 20:15

to be them. Yes. That's so good. Yeah. I, I've not, experienced it obviously, but observed it. The challenge with my friends seeing their struggles with like. Where's the line of just, you know, letting his energy come out. But also you have to show some respect and you know, to the people around you, the spaces you're in. Um, yeah, that's really good. And I'm just thinking too about. How often my goal in parenting was for people to see well-behaved children. Oh yes. And that just felt so good if, you know, my kids were walking who all about, oh, it's all about my pride. And so I wanted to go into a store, my little duckling be, you know, single file and Yes ma'am. No ma'am. And I just think now that. That's not always, I think we've all known enough families where we're like, that's not always the telltale sign of a really healthy family.

21:09

Yeah.

Christie: 21:10

And so I just say that to say whatever it's worth to keep in mind that the goal is not to have all the prim and proper lined up. You know, I would almost be concerned if I saw a row full of boys being like, not energetic and not bouncing off the wall a little bit. So, there's that.

Cheryl: 21:27

And so yeah, we've gotta quit. But what I wanna say is there's not a standard. Yeah. Like the answer to our original question?. How to let our children be themselves while maintaining healthy discipline and boundaries. Because we are all Individuals, God created everybody. Mm-hmm. And he made everyone unique. Right. And so, number one, we've got 10 million permutations of that and there just isn't any one size fits all parenting mm-hmm. There's not like, oh, this is the list of what makes a healthy family. i think healthy is that we're looking at it, we're trying to figure it out. Yes. We're flexing, we're listening to one another. We come back and go, let's talk about it again. Right. Let's revisit that and then we stick to those core values. Okay. We're going to talk about it, but remember we're gonna talk with respect to each other, even if we get noisy about it. Right? But some families are quieter. My family wasn't quiet. Right. But just this, there's not some standard out there. yeah. It's loving one another as well as we can. And the fact that this person's even asking the question tells me they're on the road of fighting the good fight. Absolutely. And. We've said it before, but just finally I'll say, you're going to get to the other side of having all of your kids past 18 years of age and you're going to have made mistakes. Yeah. And I just say it because I don't think I felt freedom in that. I don't think I wanted Yeah. Neither to get to the other side and have not made any mistakes. No, I, you're gonna look back and see a million ways that you messed it up. And we all do. And that's why we end every one of our episodes saying, remember, hang in there. Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it. There were seasons when I just held on too tightly and others when I backed off. Too much parenting is not an exact science and it does not come with a checklist. And here's what I know. When we stay anchored in love, keep our values clear and stay open to adjusting along the way our kids notice and it matters. So if you're wondering whether your boundaries are too tight, or too loose. Keep listening, keep learning, and above all, keep loving because that's where healthy grows. And if you ever wanna reach out or share what this brings up for you, we'd love to hear from you at contact@theparentingpodcast.com. Don't miss next time. More real, messy, and meaningful parenting talk is just around the corner.