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The Parenting Podcast
The Parenting Podcast
The Parenting Tool You Can’t Ignore: Boundaries | Ep. 182
We’re kicking off a new series on Boundaries with Kids. In this opening episode, Cheryl and Christie explore what boundaries really are, why they bring freedom instead of restriction, and how “This is me, this is not me” can transform family life.
Boundaries. We've hinted at them before, but today we're naming them and starting fresh. Boundaries aren't about walls or saying no all the time. They're about freedom. Freedom to know what's mine to carry and what belongs to someone else. In this first episode of our new series on Boundaries with Kids, Christie and I are laying the groundwork because the goal isn't perfect kids or perfect parenting. Or perfect families. It's healthy families that flourish. There is something that I've been saying we want to get to. And we've talked about it off mic and we've talked about it on Mike.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cheryl New:And I think it's sort of, it's the glue that kind of holds healthy parenting together and without it. We're missing a critical component. Oh, spill it Boundaries. Yes. And if you're a long-term listener, you know, we have referred to it, um, on a regular basis. The core source is Dr. Townsend and Dr. Cloud's Gold Standard. Work.
0:Boundaries, boundaries, Uhhuh. And
Cherylnew:over the years when I've met with people, when I've tried to figure my own life out, right? I've talked to a number of counselors. Mm-hmm. And I say, is there something better than this? And they go, no, that's it. Absolutely not. Yeah. And on my bookshelf at home, I have the old 1980s version. Okay. And, which was probably$5 or something, but it's the same truth. They just updated it. Yeah. It's so good, Christie. Mm. And this is why I want us to take some time and do a couple of episodes on it. Yeah. Because like we say, we don't want a perfect family. We don't want kids that turn out great. Mm-hmm. We don't all that. I would say the two words. In my life for what I really want and what I'd like to promote here is that we have our, the beauty would be healthy families that flourish. Mm-hmm. And so there's not this single answer, But actually I know in my life that. When I really started to actually really start functioning mm-hmm. In boundaries. Mm-hmm. The healthiness of my own personal life. The freedom that, that brought, skyrocketed.
Christie:Yeah. Well, and you say healthy families, flourishing, not perfect. Families flourishing. Absolutely, because I mean. The way that you see that you have good boundaries is in often in very hard circumstances, in areas of conflict or tension. So you know, we're not aiming for blissful, you know, perfect experiences with our kids. We're aiming to be healthy in those interactions, and in fact.
Cherylnew:The reason I did not do boundaries for 95% of my life is kind of the opposite. I didn't want to have conflict. Yeah. And I talk about it here. I struggle with people pleasing. Mm-hmm. And. I wanted to be nice, right? And so boundaries to me sounded like you have to do the mean thing. You tell people, no, yeah, you don't help. And it was all walls and saying no, right? Instead of this beautiful life giving freedom, giving gift of what? The doctors meant for boundaries to be. Mm-hmm.
Christie (2):Yeah. And I, it's like you said, the gravy-glue of life that holds everything together. Proof of that is that they now have not just boundaries, but boundaries for marriage, boundaries for kids. Right. Boundaries for, you know, for work, all the different parts of life. And so it really is something that, um, we have to apply in our whole lives. And so it's focusing on us Yes. As the people that need the work. Not, this isn't necessarily a parenting technique. No. It's doing the inner work for ourselves so that we can be healthier people as parents. Exactly.
Cheryl New:What I'd like to do is set, some,, groundwork here. Yeah. And then let's go through some of the things talked about in boundaries for kids. Yeah. And, then apply them in the subsequent. Episodes. Um, I, I wish I was articulate enough to explain the freedom mm-hmm. That boundaries has brought me. Mm-hmm. Because I, like I said, I didn't do it. I did so much out of obligation.
0:Yeah.
Cherylnew:Because I thought I was supposed to. Yeah. This is what mom Guilt. Mom Guilt or relation Friendship guilt. Right. Or daughter guilt. People pleasing or friend guilt. People pleasing and, well, that's what nice people do. Right? There was, uh, particularly an issue for me a few years ago with someone that I loved very much, and they made a choice and they weren't intentionally, they weren't even thinking about me, and they did something that made me feel very unloved. Mm, very rejected. And I was so hurt by it that I just said, well, I'm gonna build a big wall and I'll be real courteous and friendly, but. They're never gonna get in to hurt my heart again. Mm-hmm. Because this shows how much they don't care about me and they reject me.
0:Yeah. And I
Cherylnew:happened to have someone wise, who's happened to be there at the time and started processing this with me. And said, uh, you have to understand this had nothing to do with you. They were not considering you. Mm-hmm. They were just making their own choices, living their own life, living out their own values. And you took it personally? Personally, yeah. And the words that came to me at that point was, this is me. This is not me.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cherylnew:Mm-hmm. And that's actually what boundaries sort of is Christie. It sounds crazy to think I could be this old, and I'd never actually operated in this concept of the freedom to say, oh, you chose to have a birthday party and didn't invite me. That isn't about our friendship. Mm-hmm. But I don't take the rejection from it,
0:right?
Cherylnew:Because I'm not gonna get my identity from somebody else's choices, values, or, um. Actions.
Christie:Yeah. Does that make sense? It does, it does. Well, before we get much further, you dabbled a little bit on what boundaries is not, but tell That's'cause I'm really used to that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and so give us like a good concise definition of what we're gonna be talking. Like how, in the context of this topic do we define boundaries?
Cherylnew:Okay. When I talk about boundaries. They're invisible lines. These are not like property boundaries.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cherylnew:Uh, not like don't go in the street. Mm-hmm. Those should be rules. Yes. Yeah. That's rules. Mm-hmm. Okay. So it's invisible lines in relationships that let us know what belongs to us and what belongs to someone else.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cherylnew:Okay. But again, we're not talking about, um. My cup or your dog, right? We're talking about our feelings, uh, choices, our responsibilities, and then the actions that go with all of those. Um, and we have to be careful, like what I was going to do. They're not walls that keep people out, but they're guides that help make our relationships healthier.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cherylnew:When we're functioning in boundaries, it lets me own what is mine without taking over what is yours. Oh, that's good. And, and then they create space where there's grace, It's space where love and responsibility can actually grow. In our relationship.
Christie:Mm-hmm. Does
Cherylnew:that make sense?
Christie:It does. And, and it's, you know, making me think that when we're carrying something that somebody else's, when we're taking that on for ourselves Yeah. Or we're putting our own emotions on someone else. That's not love. No. Like you said, it feels like, oh, you know, loving people do the nice thing and are always, always kind. But that, that does help so much to kind of start to separate those things a little bit. And
Cherylnew:for example, you and I both have a car. Mm-hmm. We have to take ownership of our car.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cheryl New:And so that means I have to change the oil. I have to keep up and take care of it. And in this case we're saying, let's take. Ownership of ourselves. Yeah. Not just our physical bodies, but again, it's our emotions, our behavior, our choices and consequences. Right. So that you are taking ownership of yours and I'm taking ownership of mine. Mm-hmm. And then we're free to love each other. Right. When I struggled with this so much and, and a situation came up recently, and. I felt the burden of obligation. Oh, and that's what I've carried around in relationships. I'm naturally a very nurturing person. relationships are huge. Mm-hmm. Like you talked about values, relationship is a core key value for me. But it was unhealthy because I did so much out of obligation. Mm-hmm. And so I was in a situation, I was struggling with it when this,
Cherylnew:boundaries
Cheryl New:this is me, this is not me, had begun to be a part of my life. And there was something I didn't feel like I wanted to do. I didn't feel like I should. I felt like it was, the other person should take ownership of it, but I felt so bad about myself. What a terrible person. That I'm gonna tell this person no. Mm-hmm. And I had a wise person. Again, this is why I say encircle yourself with wise people. Yes. I had a wise person listening to me and she said, Cheryl, do you realize the freedom it gives everybody else? If they know you're gonna draw boundaries.'cause then they are free to say, Hey, could you do this for me? Yeah. And they don't think, oh, she's always gonna take, um, obligation. She's always gonna do it. Right. We have so much freedom in our relationship. It's grace that you could say, sure. Cheryl, I'll do that for you. Or no, I can't. Mm-hmm. And so I know Christie, I can ask you things and you will tell me no if it doesn't work. Mm-hmm. Instead of living this. Tango of obligation and rejection or resentment.
Cherylnew:right?
Cheryl New:right? We're free to have this open ownership of our own, uh, emotions and lives, choices, values. I can be in a relationships with someone whose core values. Are diametrically opposed or very much against what I hold true. Mm-hmm. And valuable. And I'm free. Mm. Because I don't have to take their values. They don't have to take mine, but we can still be in a really open, great relationship. Mm-hmm. So this is why I'm passionate about boundaries.
Christie:That's so good. Can you give me like a, um, I'm, I'm a visual thinker, so I need like an illustration. So can you give me kind of a. A visual to take a word picture that could help illustrate this even more.
Cheryl New:Well, I'm thinking of two. Um, one would be, think of a really big donut. and we could use these with kids. Okay. And it has a really big hole on the inside. Maybe more like an inner tube, like a truck, inner tubes. Mm-hmm. Where they have a big hole on the inside, but it's a donut on the outside. Okay. And so the. Let's say, The donut on the outside is, uh, is blue, which is nice. Blue's a nice color. But the inside, let's paint it green because green is forgo. Okay? And so the inside is me. What I should own. my actions, my values, um. My choices, behavior consequences, and that's mine. Mm-hmm. And then, and there's a real thick line on the inside surrounding that. And then on the outside, the outside donut is all yours. Mm. So for example. A child has gone to school or they've gone to a meeting and they knew to take their backpack. They had it, and it's a repeated problem in their life. Mm-hmm. Let's say not just an off and. They call, Mom, I didn't bring my notebook to school, or I didn't bring my backpack, would you go home and get it for me and bring it? Okay. If I'm trying to teach them ownership of their choices and consequences, then I look at the inside my green and go, no, that's not for me to do. Mm-hmm. And so, no, I'm sorry. That's your responsibility you are to take ownership of that, not me.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cherylnew:See, see to the old me that goes, so that sounds so harsh and unkind, like you're not serving.
0:Right.
Cheryl New:But I'm saying I have a bigger picture than just serving and helping all the time
Cherylnew:I wish I could articulate this the way Townsend and Cloud do. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to, that's why they have multiple books on this. That's why.
Christie:And podcasts,
Cherylnew:they have like an
Christie:entire university or something that's on boundaries, right? Okay. I I, I think I have like a little bit of a silly thing that might be a good picture of it. Well, my silly brain goes to say, you, you had illness like food poisoning from pickles and somebody brings you, you know, a. A dish with pickles in it and offers it to you, and you're just repulsed by it. Well, you had a bad experience that you bring to the table. It has nothing to do with that woman in her dish that had pickles in it.
0:That's right. And
Christie:I mean, that's a silly one, but it's, it's like that emotionally where yes, you may respond to somebody's actions in a certain way because of your own. Um. Way of processing your own experiences, your own preferences and values. But that person, if that, I mean, that wasn't their intention. That's right. Is that kind of what you're saying? Well,
Cheryl New:and for example, one of the mistakes I made is not wanting my children to have negative emotions. Mm-hmm. Or me, because negative emotion are bad. right. And, our goal is to be happy people, Uhhuh and so. when we would talk about things and if y'all listen, you know, we had all kinds, hours and hours of conversation, but in the end or towards the end, if they just said, Well, I don't think anybody loves me or I'm really sad about that, or that makes me feel rejected. And then they're taking ownership. That's their green feelings. Mm-hmm. And then I would come in and go, no, don't feel that I love you. Don't feel sad. Don't feel unloved. Mm-hmm. So I was coming in and saying, don't take ownership of how you really feel. Let me come in and give you better emotions and you should feel this emotion. Mm-hmm.
Christie:You're projecting your own That's right. Issue on them. Right. You know, don't feel that way because that makes you uncomfortable.
Cherylnew:Yes. And I wanted everything fixed and it doesn't fix everything.
0:Right.
Cheryl New:Taking ownership is powerful. Like that relationship situation earlier, I felt rejection. Okay. But then when I started going, wait, they weren't even thinking about me.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cheryl New:And instead of wallowing in the rejection or shutting it down, when I looked at it, I realized they weren't intending to reject me. Yeah. They were just living in their donut of what their choices and plans were. And I cut a big hole in it, let it bleed all over me, it's just so much healthier. When we can take ownership of our emotions, our choices, and so forth, and not project them on anybody. Mm-hmm. Or not take them on ourselves.
Christie:Yeah. That really broadens my idea and perspective of what boundaries are. I think a lot of times when I, I've thought boundaries in the past, it's like just saying no to everything. Right. And and that was, you know, kind of my response a lot of times is I would just. Just say no, just no, we're not doing that. We're not doing this. Yeah. That's too hard. That's too complicated. It's too messy. Um, or just being rude. You know, sometimes it feels like boundaries is just like never offering to help and never being there for people, and, and it feels. Unkind and insensitive. What, what other things do you think are misconceptions of boundaries? Like what are, what are boundaries? Not
Cherylnew:what did I think they were all my life. Uhhuh. I like that last one you said. I, I think about some people that I know that operate real well in boundaries.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cherylnew:And actually I've learned to realize how much freedom I have with them because they will actually say no. Yeah. Um, they're servant hearted, kind, giving people. Mm-hmm. But when I say, oh, by the way, I couldn't get all that done, would you do that for me? Right. And they just go. No. Um, you know, right. No, I'm not gonna do that and, and not rejecting, not my circus, not my monkeys. Mm-hmm. But saying, no, that's your responsibility and I'm not supposed to step in and do it. Yeah. It makes me think
Christie:of the Bible verse that says, God loves a cheerful giver. Yeah. Yeah. Like we should give out of, you know, the prompting that we want to. To do those nice things, not out of obligation. Like you said, obligation is the big thing. Mm-hmm. Okay. Or how like, oh, I've gotta take this meal to these people. They had a baby, you know, instead of, oh, how excited. I, I want to go bless them and be sweet to them because they're my friend and I care. Yeah. Yes.
Cherylnew:Um, also, um. I think rules are a lot of it, a lot of people think boundaries are just thick lines of protection. Mm-hmm. And lots of rules. You can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do this, you have to do this. Mm-hmm. And where I see it extremely nuanced because. Like when I was given that list early about emotions and choices, consequences, a lot of that, that doesn't have to do with do this or don't do that, or physical things. Mostly it's in relationships and how we interact with people. That's where boundaries need to come. Mm-hmm. Rather than, this was my doll that your doll or. You know when we used to not have seat belts and our parents would draw invisible line right in the backseat and say, don't cross that line, Uhhuh, Hey, cross my line. That's not what we're talking about here. Yeah. We're talking about relationship because if I could phrase anything, I would say healthy boundaries, make healthy relationships.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cherylnew:And for parents, it's not a power grab another way to really control.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cheryl New:Um, and it's not an excuse to withdraw from conflict because see, that's what I would do. I would withdraw from conflict but not draw boundaries. And so now I'm not withdrawing for conflict. I just go, this is where the boundary is and I'm not crossing it into your donut. And again, it's so nuanced. One size doesn't fit all. Yeah. And what is a boundary between one person is not another because this is me. This is not me. Uh, fluctuates in life. But I really think what I'm trying to say is if we can get the concept across and parents begin to grab onto it, then we can start kind of putting feet to it. Mm-hmm. And then we can start having families that have boundaries in place.
0:Yeah.
Cherylnew:And that we're learning boundaries. as of a way of life for example, I would now never tell my children don't feel that way.
0:Mm-hmm.
Cherylnew:Even angry. Uh, not to tell a child no, don't feel angry. I might say it's okay to feel angry. I can understand you feel angry, but we're not gonna hit our sister. Mm-hmm. See the hitting the sister, that's where the boundary goes. That's the boundary. Yeah. You can't speak to the me that way. You know, you can be really angry at me. You don't like what I'm doing, you reject me, but. I'm not gonna allow you to speak to me that way. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's what I'm talking about. That's where the boundary is in the emotional relationship mostly, but it plays out in other things.
Christie:Yeah. This is really helpful. Um, I think it's,. Talking about taking ownership and responsibility for yourself, and it frees other people up to take responsibility for themselves. And that has to be one of the most responsible things we can do for our children, is to model that and and bring them up to grow into owning their own responsibilities and relationships.
Cheryl New:Absolutely, and that's why I feel. A little tongue tied trying to present this. Mm-hmm. Because having read and looked at a lot of doctors Townsend and Clouds material and trying to live it out, it's such a big concept to explain well on the everyday level. Mm-hmm. Um,
Christie:This whole time, I've been thinking of this time that we had company coming over, so I'm asking my kids to help clean, you know, I gave them all tasks. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And one of my daughters was tasked with the living room and it was just, I think they'd been making forts. So there's blankets and couch cushions and everything all over the place. I know it well. And I came back in thinking she should have been finished with her task and. I walk in and the room is still a mess. Yeah. But I look over, she had spent that entire time Alphabet typing our whole bookshelf and putting them in nice, neat order and she was so proud of her work. Yet we're a few minutes away from company getting there and the living room is still a mess. And I'm thinking of that as a really pretty good picture of boundaries of when you're meddling in other people's emotions and carrying the weight of other people's things, you're not taking care of. Of your own self.
0:Right.
Christie:And then, you know, there could be another layer on that if, if the bookshelf was somebody else's responsibility. Yeah. So the illustration could play out pretty well, but I'm just thinking of that in relationship. You know, if we're always meddling and everyone else's and we're taking on more, then we need to, then we're really not stewarding our own selves well at all, because something has to get neglected.
Cherylnew:Oh, I like that word steward. We use that word a lot here. Mm-hmm. And that's exactly right. I think. Uh, I know I'm not overplaying the importance of it. Yeah. I've seen what it's been in my life and I see the healthiness that it brings to any relationship where I see it happening.
0:Mm.
Cherylnew:So listeners, you want to get the book Boundaries with Kids. Mm-hmm. Because it'll be so much better than what we can articulate here. Right. But I thought what we can do is kind of lay some groundwork like this and then we could go through and kind of, he has I think like 10 principles and we could take some of the principles, talk about'em, and then see how it would play out. So we can put feet to this. So we go, yeah, Cheryl. Okay. We're kind of tracking with you all. Mm-hmm. But how do we. Do it.
Christie:Right. Okay. Yeah. No little, little book club. Yeah.
Cherylnew:Okay. Hey, thanks so much and thanks for having me. Okay. Parents, remember, hang in there. Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
Cheryl New:Boundaries may sound like rules or restrictions, but remember, they're really about freedom. Freedom to know what's mine to carry and what's not. Freedom to love without resentment. Freedom to teach our kids responsibility without shame. So this week, ask yourself, where am I carrying something that isn't mine? Where do I need to step back and say, this is me, this is not me. And parents. Remember, boundaries aren't harsh. They create space where love can grow. Every time you practice a small boundary, saying no without guilt, letting your child feel a consequence, naming your feelings, honestly, you're planting seeds of health in your home. We're just beginning this series. Next time we'll dive into the first principles from Boundaries with Kids and what it looks like to help our children own their feelings, choices, and actions. Don't miss it. Oh, and I'd love to hear from you. You can reach me at contact@theparentingpodcast.com or connect with us through our website or social media. Let's keep the conversation going.
