Beyond Rules: The Heart Work of Boundaries | Ep. 185

We’re going under the surface—past the “what” into the “why.” This conversation invites you to notice the motive behind your limits and help your kids act from love, truth, and real ownership instead of fear or guilt. Gentle, practical, and honest—something you can try at home tonight.

Transcript

Speaker: 0:06

Sometimes we do all the right things as parents. But, for all the wrong reasons. We keep the peace, we follow through, but underneath there's fear, guilt, or just trying to look like we've got it all together. I've done every one of those things. Today on the Parenting podcast, we're talking about the part of boundaries that's easy to miss, the motives behind them, because real growth doesn't happen from control. It happens when love and responsibility take the lead. I am Cheryl Lang and I hope you can join us for a few minutes as we look at how changing our why can quietly transform so much at home.

Christie (2): 1:11

So, Cheryl, we've talked boundaries a whole lot, in a good, in the best way. Um, we've talked about the different angles of many aspects of of boundaries. What they are and what they aren't, and how they show up in our emotions. Yeah. And our choices, our relationships. Where are we gonna head today

Cheryl: 1:30

you know. I, I am gonna infomercial again. Everybody get Townsend Clouds boundary with kids because we haven't had an exhaustive study of it. Right, right. We've just kind of skimmed along the surface and tried to apply it, but, uh, this is just such great stuff. Right, right. Okay. Now. Like we started out saying, we have to be careful.'cause boundaries aren't rules. Boundaries are the, guardrails in our relationships towards healthiness. But one of the things that we need to talk about is the motivation behind it because, um, boundaries just don't shape what we do. They shape why we do it, because our motivation. Probably is even more important than what we actually do. Mm-hmm. Okay. And it's important to kids because if they just learn to do the right thing, Christie, they may be doing it out of fear or guilt. Mm. Like we did. Mm-hmm. And so they're missing the point. Boundaries done. Well teach our kids to do the right thing for the right reason. And so the right reasons would be. Love, truth and responsibility. Mm-hmm. And that's what we wanna pass on. You know? So I can have a kid say, no, you need to speak this way, or

Cheryl New: 2:52

I can say, I'm not gonna bring you your lunch. We can do those things. Mm-hmm. But if we're going to teach the. Reasons behind it, the motives behind it, that's a process over time. Mm. And it takes a while, and the actions are easy to see, but the problem with motives is they're more hidden and they're harder to discern. So that's why we wanna spend some time on this today, what should be our motives in boundaries, and then how do we actually live that out with our kids.

Christie: 3:24

Yeah. Yeah. Tell us what did wrong motives look like? Well, the easy ones, right? Uhhuh. That I have a whole lot I can pull from. Yes,

Cheryl: 3:32

yes. Okay. And the problem again is wrong. Motives are sneaky.'cause they can look really good on the outside. Mm mm-hmm. Okay. The homework is done, the toy is shared, the apology is said. But inside, again, it's all driven by fear or guilt. Or pressure or for me, people pleasing. Mm-hmm. Okay. And that doesn't build real character. well, it helps to keep everybody out of trouble, helps to keep our house neater, helps look tidy, help us look like the really great family. Yes. Um, for a little while.

Christie: 4:13

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl: 4:13

You know, and then it crumbles,

Christie: 4:15

right? Yeah. For me it was, um, ease or comfort.

Cheryl: 4:20

Mm-hmm.

Christie: 4:20

And just general pride. I just, I just wanted to feel good about being a good parent, you know? And it's tricky isn that Yeah, those, so, but like you say, it looks really good. Oh, your girls are just always so sweet, you know? And oh,

Cheryl: 4:36

look how well they apologized. Uhhuh. Oh, Doing it all pretty

Christie: 4:41

on the

Cheryl: 4:41

outside.

Christie: 4:42

Right. But if you really get down to the heart behind it, that's what's going to last them a lifetime.

Cheryl: 4:49

And as parents, that's really what we should care about. Right. For all of us, not just our kids. Okay. Um, so let me give you examples. Yeah.'cause we're talking about it in theory. Um, so maybe with kids, um. And again, with motives, the problem is out loud. I'm not gonna say, well, I apologize to you so nicely.'cause I'm a people pleaser and I'm really proud and it makes me feel good about myself. Mm-hmm. To present this false person. Mm-hmm. So.

Cheryl New: 5:20

Motives aren't usually said out loud, but if we were saying our motives out loud, uh, one that would be wrong with kids is, well, I gave him my toy so mom wouldn't be mad. Right. Okay. Because the motive we want to have is sharing and generosity and instead they're just avoiding how I'm gonna react to. Yeah. Or another one might be, um. Oh, I did my homework so my teacher wouldn't yell at me And again, and not taking ownership, it's fear of what the reaction's gonna be. Mm-hmm. Or like, yeah, sure. I said I'm sorry, but I did so I wouldn't get in trouble. Mm-hmm. So that's not a heart of reconciliation, it's dodging consequences. Right.

Christie: 6:02

Yeah, that those are really good. What about with older kids? Like up into the teen years?

Cheryl: 6:06

Oh, it just gets so much trickier. Messier, messier, messier doesn't it Sure does. Okay. And actually teens might say these.

Christie: 6:14

Yeah.

Cheryl New: 6:14

Oh, I just cleaned my room. So you quit nagging at me. Mm-hmm. And I'm not gonna tell you what, how these are wrong. We can see that's not the heart motivation we want to have Right. Okay. Uh, I just finished the paper up last night'cause I didn't want that teacher on my case anymore. Mm-hmm. So sometimes teens might be a little more outright about actually verbalizing what their heart is. Each of those examples, I used those were good things we wanted to happen. Getting the homework done, sharing the toy, whatever it was, but the wrong motives. And so when we're wanting to do healthy parenting, we wanna do something different. Mm-hmm. Um, we wanna work and look at what's driving us and driving our children because we don't want them to miss the deeper lesson because boundaries aren't about keeping people happy or staying out of trouble. They're learning, like we've been talking about for several weeks, about taking responsibility for what I do or say or act. Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. It does. Yeah. So if we could summarize it, you know, like highlight the point wrong. Motives are when our actions might look good on the outside, but it's driven by fear, guilt, or different kinds of pressure. And that's avoiding owning up to the choice. The most of'em are about avoiding other people's reactions, good or bad. Okay. Rather than caring about their actual character or

Christie: 7:47

ownership of themselves. That's right. And

Cheryl New: 7:49

so if we don't do something diffferent as parents, how are our children gonna learn? They have to care about their motivation, not just their actions. Right.

Christie: 7:59

That's good. So, okay, so what about the right motives? Uhhuh? How, how do we see those? Um, and how do we work out of healthy motives instead?.

Cheryl: 8:08

Because again, we're putting words to probably what's not being said. Right. Okay. But healthy motives sound different. Um, they would be simple. They'll show ownership and care. But we have to be careful. We're not gonna begin working in boundaries in our families with everyone having perfect motives, but it's behind what we wanna start working in

Cheryl New: 8:31

our families. Mm-hmm. Again, we want to be doing it, but we also want to be developing the right motives, And that's what I'm trying to focus on and that's what the. Doctors in the book focused on is let's also verbalize and work on what's behind what we're doing. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. And the right motives, uh, help'em grow in character, maturity, purpose. And then we're giving the mindset so they're not just saying the words, but they're getting what boundaries are really all about. Okay. So maybe with kids, uh, right. Motives might sound like, um. No, I let him just do it so we could play together. Okay. Mm-hmm. If they did that, that's love in action. Mm-hmm. Okay. And then, um, back to the homework deal. Well, I did it because it's my homework. Oh yeah. Okay. So see they're taking responsibility, Uhhuh, and then well. I said I was sorry because I hurt her. Mm. Well, so that's truth and love. Mm-hmm. So that not just because mom made me say sorry. That's right. That's right. And, and, and it's the same whatever age, that sort of thing. And again, they probably won't verbalize it, but, we want to be doing it and we want to be acting it out so that, that's what's beginning to be developed in our children's hearts. Right. Not just right actions, but. Right heart. Yeah. Okay. And again, it's not about perfect wording. Okay. Now, what was the word we were supposed to say when this mm-hmm. Okay. Because what I need to do. In my parenting and in my relationships is not wording it and acting, so they just keep me off their back or they're dodging the guilt. We want to really take the time to help them own up to what they're supposed. to Own. Mm-hmm. And it's the reason that grows character

10:23

instead of getting that peace for just a little

Cheryl New: 10:26

while. Yeah. Or the picture perfect family. Mm-hmm. That's just working in such great harmony, but underneath the surface it's selfish motivation.

Christie: 10:35

Yeah. This is good, Cheryl. I just, I'm listening with my mom ears and thinking if I'm hearing all of this, the right motives, the wrong motives, and I'm recognizing some of the wrong motives of my kids, how as a mom am I gonna engage? To help shift their motives. You can't, you can't change someone's heart. No, but how can I speak into their lives to help get them to a place of recognizing the motive that they, we want them to grow into.

Cheryl: 11:05

Oh, good. So, so you're saying, okay, I kind of get it about boundaries and I'm tracking with you, and now you're saying, okay, not only do we. Do the right thing, but now you're telling me I have to work on our motives as well. Well, right, right. How do, well, I think we go back to the caught rather than taught Yeah. I think we can have conversations about it, but rather than say, I don't want you to do it out of guilt. Mm-hmm. I want you to do it because you love your sister and you want to bless her and be generous. Mm-hmm. That's, again, I'm trying to legislate what their heart feels. Right. So I think probably it goes back to us that not only do we role model what good boundaries are. Mm-hmm. And then we begin to help our children do good boundaries, like as we've been talking about. But we also begin ourselves to, to verbalize. Our motive. Mm. Of why we're doing it. And then sometimes say, the reason I'm saying this,'cause I want you to know that it's not just my action on the outside as we always talk about, it's my heart. Mm. And so you may see me doing the right thing,

Cheryl New: 12:12

but if I don't verbalize my heart, you're not gonna know. That's so good. Why?

Christie: 12:16

Yeah.

Cheryl: 12:16

Okay. So what would that look like? Mm-hmm. Um. For example, It's Thanksgiving and a whole lot of relatives are in town. Mm-hmm. And we're there and my kids are acting out and I correct them and direct them and tell them what to do. And then I realize my motivation was not because I love my children, and that being kind and operating in good boundaries. Is healthy for us as a family and individuals

Cheryl New: 12:47

But because, I cared so much about what those visitors thought and I wanted to present something and I was embarrassed. Mm-hmm. Okay. I can't say all that to my children, but I need to be aware enough that I recognize what was my reason for doing it. Um, so this is a lot deeper than just. Oh, here's how you recognize your motive. Mm-hmm. If your left shoulder goes up, or you say the word right, you realize your motive. We've got to slow down and start looking at what our motives are. And you might say to yourself, and even talk to your kids. Mm. If you wanna be really vulnerable, you might realize, no, I need to correct her. Because I really care about her and I want to, help her learn to handle the situation better. Mm-hmm. Okay. And you might go back and apologize, particularly if it was evident that you were showing off for the relatives. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. This is hard. Yeah, it really is. But if, if there's a place to go back to your kids and say, you know what? I didn't handle a boundary real well the other day, and I don't want to talk to you about it. Mm. Now what I did was okay, and it looked okay, but really what matters is my heart. And actually, I corrected you the way I did, or I did that because I cared more about what people were watching and what they were thinking about me and my parenting than I did loving you. Mm-hmm. And so actually it was wrong of me, and I shouldn't have corrected you out loud. Because that was showing something to everybody. Mm-hmm. Instead, it would've been wise of me. You needed to be corrected, remember? Okay. What I should said is hey, can we go in the other room and we just walk out privately

14:30

and then privately i deal with it, and set

Cheryl New: 14:33

the boundary, i'm doing the correction for the right reason. Mm-hmm. And I know correction's not always a boundary. But it's just related. And this is the example I thought of.

Christie: 14:42

Yeah, no. Does that make sense? I think that's really helpful. Um, and even that conversation is setting boundaries because you're owning your side of it. Yeah. You can't control what your child develops in their character or how they receive it, but by you modeling that, you're taking ownership and responsibility for your side of the road and. Offering with open hands some, um, direction in their own character development.

Cheryl: 15:08

And again, this is process. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Internalizing it's a process. Doing. It's a process and it takes time. Yeah. You know, another thing is like setting rules. Setting rules is great. Organized societies have to have rules, right? Families have to have rules, and we need to abide by the rules. Okay. It's a good thing, but the why I do it. Mm-hmm. Like, would y'all just be quiet? You're making me crazy. Okay. I set a rule. And I explain my reason. Mm-hmm. Now, if I did it that way, I need to go back and say something else. Or I would love to realize I'm being driven crazy and decide this is a chance for me to set a rule related boundary. With better words so I can explain my motive. Mm-hmm. You know, and saying, remember kids, we have a rule about our voice level or how we treat others, because that shows value to everybody. Okay. Because it's about relationship and that's about treating people with love. And so if I can slow myself down, then I can verbalize a better way that shows those. values that we talked about instead of just getting what I want mm-hmm. And living out the values I don't want repeated in my children.

Christie: 16:26

Mm-hmm. No, that, that's really helpful. Yeah. I'm just thinking how much more of a character trait this really is and I hadn't thought of. Yeah, I know.

Cheryl: 16:38

That's what's really surfacing, right.'cause the heart behind boundaries, and particularly if you read. Doctors Townsend and Cloud, they aren't the guardrails. So that families relationships just run smoother. Mm-hmm. But they really care about our hearts. Yeah. And developing character because, Families and individuals will flourish if someone does boundaries well. Mm. Okay? Mm-hmm. But if we really want transformation, if we really care about who our children are going to become mm-hmm. And who we are becoming, then it's. Always about the heart, it's always about character. And then what I'm trying to link here, and I don't know if I'm doing it well, saying, oh, by the way, we need to handle boundaries. We need to verbalize boundaries in how we did or didn't do it. Well role modeling in front of our children

Cheryl New: 17:28

in view of Developing that kind of character in them, and whether they do it in their adult life, they can figure that out. Mm-hmm. But if we don't do it, Christie. They may just pick up, oh, it's one of those things you do on the surface. Mm-hmm. And there's nothing deep behind it.

Christie: 17:43

Right. You know, I'm sitting here thinking about, you know, us both having adult children now, and I don't know that I fully grasped. When I was parenting young children that I was raising the people I would be living with in their

Christie (2): 17:59

adult years. Yeah. I mean they're still your family. Yeah. You still have interactions with them as adults and like you said, they can choose to put into practice what you've taught them Exactly or not, but, um, it's worth the work to create a culture in your family because in 20 years it's still gonna be the family you're, you're operating with. That's exactly right. And you've laid the groundwork.

Cheryl: 18:21

Yeah. And I love the word you said, culture. Mm-hmm. That's what we want. Boundaries are about respect and responsibility and love. Mm-hmm. And that's a core value. Right. I want that in my family, I just never realized quite how much boundaries is deeply involved in that and the importance of our verbalizing it. Mm-hmm. As well as role modeling it. And also I think there's an aspect to it that it. It helps to develop empathy. Mm. Because instead of saying this is how you get ahead in your relationships, but that what we do has a ripple effect on all the people we come in contact with.

Christie: 19:01

Yeah. I think, um, being able to start building that empathy in your kids is really valuable. And you know, I'm just thinking too, when you are. The boundary setter or the boundary receiver in the relationship. Yeah. You know, it's you and your child. That, that to me, when I was, my kids were young and even still today I struggle with this. That feels selfish. Yeah. It feels like I have, I can hear that personal interest in this going a certain way. That's true. Um, but to speak. Into a relationship that your child has with someone else. Mm-hmm. And build empathy there and say, Hey, dad's asked us to not run through the house and make a lot of noise when he is reading. We wanna respect him and you know, his. Quiet time, or we, you know, your sister, has set this boundary to not come into her room and take her things. And so you're, you're able to speak into that as, hey, you know, you would want her to respect your boundary. And so you have more, um, influence maybe when you're not the one investing. Wow. You're, you don't have a personal, um, attachment to the, I'm really

Cheryl: 20:07

identifying with that Uhhuh. Um, because as a. widowede single parent. Hmm. I just had to kind of be all the voices. Too much. Yeah. You don't have an advocate. I wanted an advocate. I wish I'd had a, you know, third person advocating. Mm-hmm. So I really like that. Again, another aspect of it because empathy, counteracts entitlement, selfishness, self-centeredness, kind of tackles that pride thing. Yeah. And uh, and I agree with you. I really like talking about a third person. Mm-hmm. So. The two of us can stand shoulder to shoulder and look at it together. Right. Rather than saying, well, this is really about me. You should

Christie: 20:47

respect me because I have value and worth. That's, yeah. Doesn't

Cheryl: 20:51

just doesn't come across as well. No. So this is another aspect of, again, and parents have to verbalize it. If we don't we don't know. What they're understanding. Mm-hmm. And again, they're gonna run with it the way they will in their adult life. Right? Yeah. But our role is to try to come alongside and coach like this and do it for all these great reasons.

Christie: 21:11

Yeah. All right, Cheryl, so we have, um, journeyed through this boundaries conversation. What do you think if you had one big takeaway that parents could take from this, um, series? Well, where we started,

Cheryl: 21:26

healthy boundaries make healthy families. Mm-hmm. Or you could say there is no healthy family. It doesn't have healthy boundaries. Mm. Okay. They might be physically healthy and there might be peace in the home and they might do all the right things. Kind of what we were just talking about. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, we talk all the time here about that relationship bridge between people and that that relationship bridge is so important and boundaries are sort of the, the guardrails on the side of that bridge. So it keeps us on the bridge. Mm-hmm. It keeps us moving in the right direction and It moves us all of us, towards these kind of character traits that we want to develop in our families. Mm-hmm. Not that they can't be done other ways, but boundaries is an integral, vital part of having the kind of healthy, flourishing families we want to have. a lot of times when I've had conversations with people and parents particularly. They all start in the place of thinking boundaries means control. Yeah. And what we just talked about this conversation, just this episode. Mm-hmm. Uh, that wasn't about control at all. Mm-hmm. It's a very sacrificial thing we're doing to pour our lives out for our children, to develop their hearts, to develop this family culture and lifestyle of loving responsibility, kindness, and that boundaries are just, just a big part of it,

Christie: 22:48

Man, that's just so good. I wish I could have, um. Learned and grown about 20 years before I had my kids. Absolutely.

Cheryl: 22:56

I wish I had been doing boundaries since I was 15 years old. Certainly 30 uhhuh. 50 uhhuh. Okay. But it's, it's not an all at once, it's a step by step. Mm-hmm. And so as we begin to understand it, we take initial steps and of course initial steps are always, uh, wobbly. Yeah. Like our toddlers. Mm-hmm. So we just start taking initial steps and we try it some more and begin to work on it. And I will again tell you. As I've said it several times here, I am astounded that at my age I am beginning to walk in boundaries like I never have before. Mm-hmm. And I can see the healthiness I feel inside of me, the freedom and the healthiness that I'm bringing to relationships in different ways. Mm. And, uh. I didn't role model for my children when they were two and six and 10 and 20 years old. Mm-hmm. But I can do it from here on out.

Christie: 23:56

Yeah.

Cheryl: 23:56

And I want to do it and I'm taking baby steps. Right. I'm convinced of what we've been talking about and now I want to start living it out. Hmm. That's so

Christie: 24:04

encouraging. Thank you for walking us through this and just being an example that, um, we can always turn the ship. We can always That's exactly pave a new path and, and, um, model for our kids even when they're grown. Absolutely.

Cheryl: 24:20

Hey, thanks again. Thank you parents. Remember, hang in there. Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.

Cheryl New: 24:31

Parenting with the right motives takes real intentionality. It means slowing down, looking beneath the behavior hours and theirs, and choosing honesty over image. This week, notice the why behind your words when you correct comfort or set a limit. Pause long enough to ask what's really driving me right now, fear, guilt, or love and truth. Those small pauses can shift the whole atmosphere of your home. They build room for calm, for everyone to own their own share, and for grace to take root, not instant peace. Put gradually fewer battles, more follow through, and a closeness that breathes. If you'd like to share what this looks like in your family, I'd love to hear from you. Email contact@theparentingpodcast.com or connect with us through our website or on socials. We're in this with you learning, fumbling and finding grace along the way.