Parenting Through the Pushback | Ep. 186

When love feels like a battle and boundaries feel impossible, you’re not alone. Cheryl, Christie, and Kyla talk about the courage it takes to hold steady, stay kind, and keep your heart soft when the pushback comes. Because real love doesn’t give up—it grows stronger in the tension.

Transcript

Cheryl New (2): 0:03

oh boundaries can sound simple until the voices get loud, the pushback keeps coming, the emotions rise, and it starts feeling kind of like a battlefield. It's the moment you start wondering, am I doing this wrong? Or is this actually what it's supposed to feel like? I'm Cheryl Lang, your host of The Parenting Podcast, and in this episode, Christie and I sit down with Kyla Pace to talk about what it means to. Hold steady when it would be easier to give in. It's a look at parenting that's less about perfect responses and more about quiet, loving courage, maybe the peace you've been craving. It isn't in avoiding the conflict, but in walking through it differently. Listeners, we have our dear friend and friend of TPP Kyla Pace back in with us again today. Hi guys. Welcome back. Yeah, thank you. We always look for a chance to be together, and this time we just have microphones in front of us.

Cheryl new: 1:30

So Kyla, as you know, we've just done a series on boundaries with kids and off mic. You and I have been talking a lot about it. Yes. And so, because you asked so much and we're talking, I said, come in and ask your questions Yes. In the room. So you got questions for us.

Kyla: 1:49

Yeah, well, I've actually had a copy of Boundaries with Kids on my nightstand, and I reference it a lot. I have lots of underlined pages and things, but I feel a little bit inadequate to be talking about boundaries because it's been a struggle for me. I feel like it's, uh, one of my weaker areas, probably because of my personality. Yeah. Uh, it's harder for me to, to set strong boundaries and hold to them. Yeah. Just as a peacekeeper and, uh, someone who wants to make sure people are comfortable and heard and not suffering. And not struggling. Mm-hmm. To set a boundary that's gonna be painful for one of my children is uncomfortable for me. And it's been a learning curve. Yeah.

Cheryl New (2): 2:34

Well, welcome to the party. Yeah, for sure. You just described me, this is why I didn't, I didn't even know boundaries existed most of my life

Christie: 2:43

Well, yeah, and we've talked about it earlier in the series, that boundaries feels rude or mean. Right? Does, you know, it feels too harsh to one that's, you know, some of us that. Tend to try to be polite people or kind people, or wanna make people happy and dare I say, people pleasers. Yeah.

Cheryl New (2): 3:02

Well, if it just worked. And we did a little boundaries and everyone went, thank you. Right. Oh, we're gonna just get on board with this. It's the pushback. That's hard. The pushback. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So what, what's something you wanna talk about?

Kyla: 3:17

Well, I thought maybe I would start with talking about boundaries for myself, because that's something I've recently learned. Yeah. One, I mean, it's the TPP episodes on self-care have been really helpful for me because I tend to wear myself down and in the boundaries book it says, if you're in a state of deprivation and your kids are constantly wearing you down, you may be lacking time to yourself. Mm. Wow. So. I just thought I would bring that up because when I can take a little time for myself and build up my coffers, have a little bit more energy, I'm able to deal. With my kids better with boundaries.

Cheryl New (2): 3:57

Wow. What a great recommendation. Yeah, for sure. For what boundaries do! And also, you used the word self-care, and we already talked about how you feel like you're being selfish. Mm-hmm. You're struggling with doing boundaries mm-hmm. Because there's a difference between self-care and self-serving,

Christie: 4:14

right? Yeah. Or self-indulgent.

Cheryl New (2): 4:16

Self-indulgent. Mm-hmm. I agree with you. Mm-hmm. It was hard for me too, Kyla, to learn to do self care

o: 4:24

mm-hmm.

Cheryl new: 4:25

Without saying, well, I'm just gonna be selfish and I'm gonna eat the biggest piece of pie and I don't care. Mm-hmm. That was the rebound. Of not doing any self care. Yeah. What you're talking about. Yeah.

Kyla: 4:36

Well, and my kids see me saying yes and doing and going and serving, and that's a. A poor model. I don't really want to make that the example for them because I don't want them to have that expectation of themself where they're so drained.

Cheryl new: 4:50

Mm-hmm. By

Kyla: 4:51

doing and giving of themself all the time that they're worn down.

Cheryl new: 4:55

And so what I will say a little bit further down the road and, and my experience not only with boundaries but of course with my kids in life, and it's really interesting. I continue to get. Some positive feedback in my family because they're watching me do it. And so I'm not an expert at it, but it's very clear to my children that I've begun to walk in boundaries. Hmm. Uh, mostly the affirmation comes when they see me draw boundaries with someone else, right? Yeah. Or another situation. But what that says is they are watching and they're watching how I not just do adult life, but how I do boundaries So I encourage you, what a great motivation for you, because boundaries really is about love. So you're loving your children. Well, you're role modeling it and they're gonna be watching and learning how to love others well as you walk through the boundaries yourself. Nice.

Christie: 5:58

I think that's really good perspective, Cheryl, as having adult kids that you're able to say, your kids appreciate your boundaries when they're set with someone else. And it's good for somebody in Kyla's season. Yeah. To hear that because. When we set boundaries with our kids, when they're at home and where you know, they're our main relationships and, and we're doing life mm-hmm. Daily together. Mm-hmm. It's not that they don't appreciate or respect the boundary itself, if they had the maturity to look at it objectively, it's that they don't like how they're experiencing your boundary. Yeah, true. And so I, I think that's helpful to remember. It's not personal, it's just, I mean, it is personal for them. They, they don't like how it's personally affecting them. I want to be able to walk over my mom and tell her how to, you know, handle things and, but if you are doing it. Even your older girls, probably if you were telling a story about a friend mm-hmm. They would probably objectively say, mom, you need to tell her that you're not gonna be able to do that. You know? Exactly. But if it's them, that's a different story.

Kyla: 6:59

Yeah. And I'm in the thick of teenager v you guys, I've gotten, uh, two girls and a boy, teenagers, and then a younger one who's 10. So, I mean, I'm in the middle of this and I have been. Learning, reading, exploring on how to keep a thick skin.

Cheryl new: 7:17

Yes. Um, you need that for sure. Well, you know what, one of the things, somebody, a long time ago, they said to love well, and to be. To be healthy, you have to have thick skin, but a tender heart. Yes. Mm-hmm. And so when I'm not doing my thick skin and the, what we're talking about here, then what I start doing is I either have a lacerated heart mm-hmm. Or I build a crust around it. Right. Okay. I am not going to be tender and gentle. And it's, that's everything we've said about boundaries is it can be very, very kind. Um. And welcoming and so to keep our heart tender, but not taking it personally. Mm. So you have that what we call thicker skin. Yeah.

Kyla: 8:03

Yeah. And it's, you know, when you deliver a consequence, even in a kind healthy boundary way, kids are gonna often wanna shoot the messenger. Yeah. Mm-hmm.. So if you can keep a thick skin. Mentally and maybe get filled up outside of your kids. Yeah, that's important. I'm learning.

Cheryl new: 8:22

That's one of the main things in parenting. And you know what is so interesting, y'all play the cello. No. Okay. If we started playing the cello, we would know there's a big learning curve and um, they have to develop calluses on their fingers and we would understand the pushback in other ways, whatever it is we're doing. Like your giving your children a new level of responsibility, um, nobody likes the hard new thing, but we expect it in certain areas and for some reason, as. Key as boundaries are to relationships, we kind of don't expect the pushback.

o: 9:01

Mm-hmm. We want, that's our

Cheryl new: 9:02

children to see the immediate benefits and go, mom, I love it when you tell me no'cause I can see, you know?

o: 9:10

Mm-hmm. It's

Cheryl New (2): 9:10

just not gonna happen, particularly as you introduce it maybe to teens or a little bit later in their life. There's A learning curve. All learning is hard,

Christie: 9:19

right? And

Cheryl New (2): 9:19

there's that curve at first when you're new at it and it's awkward. and y'all know I've started, um, watercolor and. It was hard. I had to teach my fingers and um, and the wonderful thing is I'm not staying with the flowers I first started with. I'm learning new things. So it's always hard and challenging. I don't know why. And something as important as a relationships, we think, bam, we should nail this right away. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Both you and your kids. Yeah, of course they're gonna push back.

Kyla (2): 9:53

That's true. I think I struggle sometimes When I set a new boundary and they noticed that of, oh, you know, mom's doing something new, they call me out on it.

Cheryl new: 10:04

You know, Kyla, you're kind of being kind of hard on yourself. What a beautiful thing that you're willing to do something new and different and hard for yourself and your kids. I'm telling you, they're watching it. It's never too late to begin inviting responsibility and clarity, thus love into your relationships. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

o: 10:24

Mm-hmm. Now,

Cheryl new: 10:25

they don't like it now, but look what you're introducing to them and the humility of saying it's never too late.

o: 10:32

Hmm.

Christie: 10:33

Well then there's multiple. Uh, benefits. It's a benefit for you to set a boundary because it's that self care and, and preservation that you need to care for yourself. It's modeling for them how they can set boundaries in their own relationships, either now or in the future. And then it's teaching them how to receive a boundary. I mean, they're going to have all types of boundaries set in their lives with bosses and spouses and friends. And so I think. For me because it was a struggle for me too, was my, definitely my weak spot in parenting.

Cheryl New (2): 11:09

All three of us. Yeah, I'm just saying. Yeah, relational health is difficult. Uhhuh, otherwise everybody would do it. Well, I know I'm interrupting you, but I'm just saying. We're so surprised that to do relationships well and to love other people well, particularly introducing it later in our lives, no wonder it's hard. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sorry, go ahead.

Christie: 11:31

Um, just that. the more I can see it as a benefit for them and a way to love and serve them Yeah. Is more helpful. Yeah. Than just my own selfishness, you know, to, to just diffuse that lie that it's selfishness. Yes. That is helpful because it

Kyla: 11:45

helps you get through the tough moment.'cause you see, before I'm doing, doing this for you. Mm-hmm.

Christie: 11:50

Yeah. And it's, it's a little hard to believe it yourself and convince them of that.

Kyla: 11:55

Yeah. Right. I think one thing I really wanted to talk about with having teenagers was. Boundaries with attitude or disrespect or sass. I mean,'cause it goes hand in hand. And I think one mistake I've made is being surprised by it. Mm-hmm. Instead of it being normal. Mm-hmm. To expect it, realize it's gonna happen. But also realizing it's not normal to let it continue.

Cheryl new: 12:22

Mm. That's been, wow. This is so excellent. What are some of the steps that you have picked up or how you've worked in it? Because I love this, the, particularly wanting the harmony. We want things to go smoothly and if we just

Cheryl New (2): 12:37

allow That sassy mm-hmm. Disrespect, I am not letting them love me. Well, right. I have some friends who've had to walk through some really hard adult situations and they had to draw some very strong boundaries. But the, the reason they did it is'cause they really realized I am not loving this other adult well if I allow them to continue to think this is the way they should treat people. Mm-hmm. And when you realize actually what you are saying, I'm loving you so well. That I'm gonna show you, this is not how we treat people. Mm-hmm.

Christie: 13:16

Exactly. Yeah. Kyla, I loved what you said about that it's not surprising for them to have this kind of attitude or disrespect, but it can't continue. Right?

Kyla: 13:26

Yeah. It's normal that it happens. It's not normal for it to continue. Yes. For me to allow it to continue.

Christie: 13:31

Right. Which is true in every season of our kids. Development. Mm-hmm. Like it's normal for them to throw the toy or their food off their high chair. Yes. But we don't let it continue. It's normal for them to yank the toy out of the friend's hand or stomp away, but we don't let it continue.

Cheryl New (2): 13:49

Exactly. Yeah. The most important thing we have, horizontally on earth is relationships. Mm-hmm. And so we don't let it happen with the tool or the food. Mm-hmm. Uh, how foolish that I thought it should continue in relationships, right? Instead of taking the steps to say, no, this is how we're going to do this relationship.

Christie: 14:10

And for me, I think I just had that expectation that. Especially once they got into the teen years, I could taste adulthood. Right? Yeah. I could see them so close and I just wanted to fast track it. Yeah. I was like, oh, can we just be friends? Yeah. You know, just so long the, the journey of parenting is so long. I just really wanted them to fast track their maturity and just agree with me. Because you see glimpses of that

Kyla: 14:34

maturity. Yes. They gave you that

Christie: 14:35

hope

Kyla: 14:35

and then there's still, they reversed to immaturity really quick too, because I

Cheryl new: 14:39

expected you to be immature back then. Right. Can't we just, and I literally said that, can't we just quit all of this? Yeah. And be friendly with each other and act mature and

Kyla (2): 14:51

well on that note. In Boundaries with Kids, it says, normal children naturally hate limits when you first set them, but the test is what are you going to do when the child expresses disrespect and pushback? Wow.

Cheryl new: 15:06

So, what are you doing? Have you gleaned some things

Kyla: 15:09

Yeah, I really have. And they talk about in the book the first step being. Empathy. Mm-hmm. And then correction. And I didn't do that for a long time. Mm-hmm. I would bow up, how dare you talk to me. Like that was my response. But to have empathy, you know that I understand that you're really angry, but I. I'm not going to allow you to continue to talk that way to me.

o: 15:35

Wow. Mm-hmm.

Kyla: 15:35

Just to have empathy with him. I understand you're upset. I hear that you're ticked off, you know, but. That's not the way you're going to talk to me.

Christie: 15:45

That is so excellent. Yeah. And that reminds me of, uh, when we talked about the whole Brain Child Yes. Book by Dr. Uh, Siegel, I think is the author, um, that connect and redirect even when they're young. And so, gosh, I wish I would've done this more. I don't know if I did it enough at all. And

Cheryl new: 16:02

with teenagers,

Christie: 16:03

Uhhuh, I'm

Cheryl new: 16:03

connecting with you. Yeah. See. Like we just, I'm gonna keep saying boundaries is an expression of love. Mm-hmm. And what you just did, and when I'm listening to you, you're saying, oh, before I wasn't taking care of myself, so I exploded.

Kyla: 16:16

Yes.

Cheryl new: 16:17

And so that's what was happening. You were reacting. Yep. Amygdala hijacked.

Kyla: 16:22

Oh, how dare you. Yeah. Right.

Cheryl New (2): 16:24

Instead of saying, stop. express empathy. Mm-hmm. You just crossed my boundary. This is not appropriate. And you. Redirected saying, we're not gonna continue this. Right. Unless you change the way that you're treating me.

Kyla: 16:40

sure. And kind of the light bulb moment for me was this has been really effective with the SaaS and disrespect, which has been one of the harder areas with teenagers. Yes. Is letting the consequence be more relational.

Cheryl new: 16:52

What do you

Kyla: 16:53

mean? Well, just saying, I hear you're angry. I understand you're mad, however. You are not allowed to be in my presence when you're talking to me that way, so I'm leaving, or you need to go to your room or take a walk. Because you can't talk to me that way.

Cheryl New (2): 17:09

'Cause it might sound to someone here, a relational consequence cutting you off. Right? Mm-hmm. But actually that's what I did. I, I built a wall and I cut them off in my heart. Mm-hmm. When all that went on. Without a boundary. Right. But you know, I love it saying, oh, we're putting space between us, right? Mm-hmm. Until you learn how you can interact with me appropriately. Exactly. That is

Christie: 17:33

fantastic. And it's that until you learn part that keeps it from being, um, abandonment or rejection Right. It, it's saying, I am happy to have this conversation when you are ready. Yeah. To be respectful

Kyla: 17:47

and it really seems to. To be effective because my kids really don't like that. They don't like being sent away or me walking away. Mm-hmm. They wanna keep the cycle going. But that kind of brings me up to one of the points that I wanted to, to talk about in the podcast today was I used to and still struggle with getting caught up in the protest. Yes. Mm. It's a trap for me, but realizing. When I get caught up and I'm

Kyla (2): 18:18

reacting And I get caught up in the cycle of their anger mm-hmm. Or their reaction to the, the boundary that's taking the problem off of the issue and making it on myself. Mm-hmm. Yes,

Cheryl new: 18:30

exactly. We're not talking about the issue anymore. Matter of fact. And then we've said it before. I remember one time Bill said, honey, can you come in here? And, and it wasn't a heated conversation. It was just one of those mm-hmm. Round and round and round and round he said. Do you even have any idea what that conversation started with? Nope, because we'd covered like the entire Rocky Mountains uhhuh of the, you know, bouncing, bouncing, bouncing, talking about things and it. And

Cheryl New (2): 19:01

I had completely lost Sight of what it was. And like you're saying, you get pulled in that emotion. Mm-hmm. You're not dealing with the actual issue anymore. Right.

Christie: 19:08

Because more often than not, the protest is against control. Absolutely. Like the fight is for autonomy and independence. Yeah. And so if they can't get you, and this makes it sound like our kids are evil little beings. They're not. But if they can't get you on this matter. Then they'll move on to the next matter and then the next matter, and then they've got you in us running around in circles. Just trying to win, I think is the main goal. And then we get sucked into it in our immaturity the same way we're like, no, I'm fighting this thing out. I wanna win.

Kyla: 19:39

I think they said, all you've gotta do is hold the line one more time than your kids. Mm-hmm. That's what boundaries are. Just, wow. One more time. Hold the line.

Cheryl new: 19:47

Well and. Then I've said it before, one of the most effective tools with my teens and then young adults. I had to be aware enough to say we're talking about one thing. Mm-hmm. Okay. We're only going to talk about

Cheryl New (2): 20:00

this original issue. Mm-hmm. And to slow down that much to say, we're talking about one subject we're talking about. Whatever it is that you left the bathroom, a wreck when you left last night. Mm-hmm. Whatever that is, and then, well, that's not fair because you did in the last weekend and suddenly we're spider webbing all over the place. And then to be aware when the boundaries of how we treat each other kindly. In conversations, respect. Yeah. When that gets crossed. Mm-hmm. And so that's kind of all I have to do is keep those two things in mind and we stay on it. I can stay focused with you. Mm-hmm. I'm looking at you, Christy, like I'm talking to my teen young adult and we're gonna talk about this. Whoops. Just a minute. We crossed that line also. That helps me with the thick skin. Mm-hmm. And the tender heart, because I don't have to defend myself. I don't have to argue. We can talk about the one thing. Mm-hmm. And then when it moves to an area where it's disrespect either way, go, we have to stop this right now. Mm-hmm. Right. And we can talk about it later.

Kyla: 21:05

Um, I really like that thick skin, but a tender heart. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It makes it seem less. That's cold. It makes it seem loving, even though it's hard,

Christie: 21:13

which it's hard to balance those together at in the moment it sure. But I really think, you know, kind of going back to this, you know, this, chain reaction in the, in the moment of the conflict of, you know, well, last Thursday you did this, or you always say that, or you never do this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think just if I can like level us up a little bit in balancing that. Thick skin, tender heart. What I've noticed, especially with my girls as they got older, was that can actually be a superpower. If you can balance listening to what those other arguments are. They have been very revealing to what a deeper issue that hasn't been discussed. Hmm. And so if you, I

Cheryl new: 21:54

can expand

Christie: 21:55

that a

Cheryl new: 21:55

little

Christie: 21:55

more.'cause that's really true. Well, it's hard without divulging the details, but I'll try to give an example. But if, if you're saying. No, you can't go with this friend tonight. Yeah. You've got to do your chores or her homework or whatever, and then all of a sudden the fight becomes, you don't even ever listen to me. Yeah. You don't, you know, we, we don't ever communicate and then that's like, oh, there's something deeper down there in the heart of my child that needs to be addressed. It can't be right now, it has to be later, but I'm gonna tuck it away. And come back to it tomorrow when all the emotions have died down. That's good. Yeah, because I, I think sometimes it is manipulation. Yeah. And just wanting to, you know, use something emotionally against you, but it also might reveal something deeper in the relationship that's broken or needs attention.

Cheryl New (2): 22:47

I like this because what you're describing, it's the benefit of being very present. Mm-hmm. That I'm really listening to you, and I will tell you if we keep it to one subject, like whether or not they can go to a party. Right. Let's just say that. Can they go to this party Saturday night?

o: 23:03

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl new: 23:03

If we're talking about that, I don't have to be. Lining up all my arguments. Yes. All of that. And, and we're having a courtroom back and forth and, and going on to other subjects. We can just stay on that one subject. Mm-hmm. So I can really listen mm-hmm. To what they're really saying. Mm-hmm. Say, I really want to hear what you have to say, but when we bring in the emotion of it mm-hmm. When we start both sides defending when I'm listening, so I can tear down their argument. Mm-hmm. That's not a genuine conversation.

Kyla: 23:34

Well, and it's having the wisdom over should we have this conversation and I wanna hear your heart or being wise and seeing, they just wanna argue to wear me down and change my no to a yes. Mm-hmm.

Christie: 23:48

Yeah.

Kyla: 23:48

Yeah. Actually, if I'm pressured a lot, I tend to feel controlled. Uh, but in the boundaries with Kids' Book, one of the things that keys up on is, uh, be uncontrollable. Mm. And I like that my, I don't have to be a parent whose choices are dictated by my kids' response. Mm-hmm.

o: 24:10

And I used

Kyla: 24:10

to vacillate up and down and how are you feeling? And yes and no and but to be uncontrollable and kind of a strong presence.

Cheryl new: 24:20

And I, I like it Not control to dominate, right? Mm-hmm. But control. So we are a stable, loving, consistent presence with our kids, right? Mm-hmm. And not vacillating back and forth with every wind of emotion and hormones and stuff. Mm-hmm. And one of the things that they say somewhere in their writings is what can help keep you there, stabilize you, is your why? Mm. Like why am I drawing this boundary? Mm. ask yourself, Why am I afraid? Am I being driven by guilt or am I trying to rescue?

o: 24:56

Mm.

Cheryl new: 24:57

Oh, and I think those are three great questions to ask. Mm-hmm. About the use of boundaries. Right. Okay. So. Say in again. Do I have fear in this? Okay. Is this a fear thing? Mm-hmm. Am I afraid of something? Oh, I'm so afraid if I say that they'll reject me, or I'm whatever. Is it fear?

o: 25:13

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl new: 25:14

Okay. Is it guilt driven? Oh, I'm always, I'm just, I'm not, and everybody else's, whatever. Whatever. Guilt driven. I didn't do them right before, and now I'm feeling guilty about it. Mm. Mm-hmm. That, just that guilt or fear, and then am I trying to rescue them?

o: 25:30

Mm.

Cheryl New (2): 25:31

And that trying to rescue was a huge part for me. Mm-hmm. Because I didn't want my children to hurt. Right. And in general, but specifically after having lost their dad. Right. You were going through a

Kyla: 25:43

hard, crazy time.

Cheryl new: 25:45

And, and I, didn't do boundaries well.'cause I was always rescuing. Mm-hmm. So I think those are three really good questions to ask yourself. That's

Christie: 25:52

really, really good. You know, the phrase, uh, non-anxious presence. Yeah. That you wanna be a non-anxious presence. And I think that's a, like the picture of control, we're talking about a healthy kind of. Steadiness not control, like you're grasping out of these three things. Fear Guilt and wanting to rescue. Yeah, that, that's a ugly kind of control that makes us desperate or anxious. But a steadiness is a. Anxious free white

Cheryl New (2): 26:20

And see, I'm

Cheryl new: 26:21

thinking about how this would play out. If we don't allow the tumult, then I can slow down a second and say, you know, am I being triggered? Okay, why am I saying no about the party?

o: 26:33

Mm-hmm.

Christie (2): 26:34

or is it really a wise decision? Mm-hmm. The why, right.

Kyla: 26:37

Yeah, so I'm thinking about that, Cheryl, on the why, because when I look back on my parenting, my tendency was to say yes. I said yes to my kids, to their requests, their needs, their mom, I want this for dinner and I wanna do this with my friend. And I mean, I was saying yes. Out of default and really wearing myself out

Christie: 27:00

for sure. Because you're operating out of that emotion. Yeah. Fear of the guilt, the rescue. Right. Wanting to make and see my, my default in those moments where I was pressed up against the wall or backed into a corner was, no, no, we're not painting, we're not going there, we're not eating out, we're not, you know, we're not doing anything. Just know and. I I, so I think we do have default extremes that we go, that feel safer, um, because yes, felt scary to me. It felt like there's a million variables and I don't know what's gonna happen. So if we just say no to everything, like I'm

Kyla: 27:33

causing them pain or disappointment, uhhuh. That's how it felt to me.

Christie: 27:37

And I, I remember I got to a place, probably talking about things with Cheryl a million times, got me to a place of knowing that about myself. Mm-hmm. Having that self-awareness. So then I would say to my kids. If you back me in a corner right now and I have to answer you, the answer will be no. But if you'll gimme time to think about it and I can, you know, I wasn't saying this to them, but I was thinking if I could get some logic coming in mm-hmm. And look at the sys the situation more objectively, then there's a possibility I could give you a yes. And that was actually really effective for them to give me a motivator to give me that space.

Kyla: 28:13

Christy, that's brilliant. That's almost a light bulb moment for me because I am not a quick responder. Mm-hmm. If I'm put on the spot, it takes me a minute. Mm-hmm. I would need some time to process. I'm just not as quick on my feet, so that really is helpful. Well, and your

Christie: 28:26

kids probably have picked up on that. Yes. Oh, you know, they know if they can get you to answer right now, you'll feel. Enough to say yes and usually say yes out of default. Yeah. I read a study when my girls were little, um, that kids, I don't remember the details of the study, but they said kids know intuitively how many times they need to beg or ask to get their parents to give in. Like somehow they were able to. To see that the kids knew on the seventh time is her breaking point or the ninth time is her breaking point when they fence the wearing

Kyla: 28:55

down.

Christie: 28:55

I was like, oh man. That is so true. It was just like you said, we've just gotta say no one more time. Yeah. Than they, then they're gonna Yeah. Win out, but,

Cheryl new: 29:04

and seeing the win out. Mm-hmm. That's what I love about what our conversation is here, what we're talking about, this whole series. It's not about winning and losing. Yeah. It's about. Freeing everybody up. Mm-hmm. To be themselves, to operate and have respect to their areas. Mm-hmm. And themselves. And we just get to lead in it. Mm. We're just a mess. I'm

Christie: 29:30

just laughing. We are a mess. I'm laughing if my kids only knew the work I had to do on me. True. Absolutely. Just to grow up enough to be their

Kyla: 29:39

parents. Ugh. It is so hard. One thing I did wanna say. Regarding saying yes and no, and our different tendencies and opposite ness. Christie, in the book, there's this really cool quote and it says, the parent who says no and then changes her mind is a hero, but the one who says yes and then no is a traitor. Mm. And I just really liked that, like just give myself some space. Mm-hmm. Be confident in my yes or no. Don't change your mind, but if you do change your mind, it's better to go from no to Yes. Oh, that's good fun. I thought that really good. Yeah. So you got to be the hero, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl new: 30:17

You know, and remember the fact that there's pushback. Mm-hmm. The fact you say no, all of it, it doesn't mean you're doing the wrong thing. Yeah. In fact, good parenting is hard. Mm. And if it's really, really easy. I would wonder why. Mm-hmm. Because in life, anything we talked about, playing the cello,

Cheryl New (2): 30:39

everything worthwhile It's hard. It's hard to stay fit. It's hard to grow and change and develop new neural pathways and learn something new. It's hard to love others. Well, it is so easy, Kyla, for me to be selfish and to get my way. But for me to know, where do I say no? Where do I say yes this, the why behind it. The

Kyla: 31:06

why. It's hard

Cheryl new: 31:07

and complex. It's really

Kyla: 31:08

hard. Particularly, say that again, Cheryl, that just because it's hard doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong.'cause I, I really need to hear that. And I think a lot of parents do.

Cheryl new: 31:17

It's absolutely true. And, uh, we've got to stop. This has been a great conversation, Kylie. You always brings such good reality mm-hmm. To what we're doing. And if boundaries were easy, everyone would do it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because it would bring such health and vigor and growth and love to her relationships. So the fact they're

Cheryl New (2): 31:40

hard might kinda tell us it's a good thing,

Christie: 31:43

right? Yeah.

Cheryl new: 31:44

Wow. What a picture of what Dr. Townsend Cloud say that healthy boundaries. Make healthy relationships. Make healthy families.

o: 31:52

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl new: 31:53

I just love this. What a great wrap up. Me too. Thank you, Kyla. Thank you for coming today.

Kyla: 31:59

Well. You're welcome. It's a weak spot, so I feel inadequate, but I've also been a big student in this. Yeah.

Cheryl new: 32:06

So have we. Mm-hmm. So parents remember, hang in there. Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.

Speaker: 32:17

You know, I've learned that boundaries rarely feel good in the moment they stretch us. They test our patience and sometimes our hearts, and they're hard. But they also invite us and our kids into something deeper. So when the pushback comes or the guilt sneaks in, don't lose your footing. Take a breath. Keep your voice gentle. Your heart soft. And your boundary steady. You are not trying to win a battle. You're building trust one boundary, one moment at a time, and that kind of work, it's sacred. We'd love to hear how this is taking shape in your home. Reach out at contact@theparentingpodcast.com or find us on socials. And just remember, you're not alone. We're right here walking this with you.