Working Motherhood: Beyond Balance | Ep. 199

Working motherhood isn’t about splitting yourself evenly. It’s about learning to live well inside the tension.

Transcript

Tiffany 0:00

I know we keep saying balance, but I hate the word balance. It makes me feel stressed.

Speaker 0:07

Some days you're doing the most you think you can and still wondering if it's enough. Today on the Parenting podcast we're pulling up a chair for a real coffee table kind of conversation about the working mom life. Not as a debate, not as a hot take, but as an honest processing together. I'm Cheryl Lang and two moms are back with us. As we talk about the quiet pressure, the constant adjustments and the guilt that tries to follow us from one role to the next, whether you work outside the home, inside it, or your season keeps shifting. You're welcome here. Let's sit with what's real and sort through what actually matters.

Cheryl new 1:13

We are so glad to have Andrea Soltani and Tiffany Smith back in the recording studio with us again. Welcome back ladies. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us

Tiffany 1:22

back. Yeah, it was

Cheryl new 1:23

fun. So these two ladies are absolute full-time committed moms. And they also are employed. And they were here, for a previous episode and we just said, we're gonna use the term working mom or working instead of saying employed all the time because you work full-time as a mom and work. Right. Pretty much full-time outside the home. Right. Okay. Good. So welcome back

Christie 1:49

y'all.

Tiffany 1:50

Thank you.

Christie 1:52

Yeah. Tiffany, I've been thinking so much about something you said Last time, about the relationship with other moms. Mm-hmm. Who might be staying home and not working outside of the home and I just, it breaks my heart because we talk a lot here about division amongst parents on, yeah. Birth choice, school choice, feeding choice, all the things mm-hmm. That we have to make decisions on. And, um, I just wondered if you could talk more about that, just navigating. Living life with people and women that you want to maybe connect with, but have different choices and different circumstances in their families? Yes.

Tiffany 2:27

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think most of it is probably time. You know, it's like they are going to meet after school and go to brunch or something like that, after school drop off. We're not able to do that'cause we're usually dropping off and running to work or having someone else drop off. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I think just the volunteer thing, especially at schools, like, can you participate in this? Can you be here for this? Can you be here for that? And you just can't, you can't be there for all of it. And so making those decisions to say no and just honestly. Just having to make a decision that you don't care if you're judged for it or not. And I think that's one of the hardest things for moms is it's like I have to make the decision that's right for me and my family. Mm-hmm. Um, regardless of what anyone else's choices are or what they think. And then hopefully we can extend that grace mm-hmm. Outside of that. But, um, yeah, I mean, I, I don't know that they necessarily are judging you for working. I'm sure they're not. That's my question.

Cheryl new 3:29

Do you think that, I'm gonna ask you your personal Yeah. Situation. Do you think you really were judged or you were just projecting your guilt on it and thinking maybe they were

Tiffany 3:39

mom guilt? Mom guilt? Yeah. I mean, I, I do think especially like the can you. Do the baked good sale or sign up or we don't have a homeroom mom yet. Could you do this? And being asked like, Hey, could you help teach this class? And like saying, no, I, I do think there's some judgment there when just set a hard, hard boundary.

Cheryl new 4:00

Yeah,

Tiffany 4:01

probably.'cause not everyone will do it. Um, so they're used to people just going above and beyond and when you get healthy and you're like, I really just can't fit that in right now. Oh, I love that. Um, people, um. Yeah, I think if they're not used to having boundaries sent, they're a little, um, judgy on it probably. Mm-hmm. But again, that, that goes in what I call their emotional backpack, not mine. And so that's okay with me as long as I know that I am doing what you know I need to do. I, you know, I. Just to talk about mom guilt, I feel like a decade ago I just decided it was actually a choice and I wasn't gonna have it anymore. Wow. And that has been a total game changer for me. Yeah. Um, and having older kids who will tell you that they don't like some choices you made and stuff, you just have to go in with humility. And if you go in with mom guilt, that's gonna feel like a trigger of just like, oh, they're right. I didn't do that. And instead I can go in with humility and be like. I'm sure I made mistakes and I'm sorry it affected you that way. What do you need to do about that? What can we do to mend our relationship? But I just don't have time for mom guilt and I, I, you know, had it for a long time. Um, but I just think we can't be at all and we're not supposed to be at all. Like they're supposed to have a community and other people are and can fill in. And so I think just deciding like, and, and I mean part of it was just our life. Like we have shift work. My husband. We've missed holidays, we miss games. Yeah. We miss events. Like that's just the nature of it. And maybe because of that, we just learned early on like, Hey, guess what? They were all okay that dad wasn't home for Christmas. Mm-hmm. We had Christmas two days early and they thought that was really cool. Right. You know, and they didn't have a problem with it. And so that helped. Being able to be like, I don't have to be at every single event of every single kid. Do we go if we can? Yes. You know, but I don't have to break my back trying to be everywhere. And so that has lifted a lot of, like that guilt of like, I'm not gonna be present at every single thing. Um, and knowing that they're okay with that, they understand. Dad's at the fire station mom's. You know, working. Um, they, if they could get here, they know that we would. That's fantastic. That's so good. I feel like we need to have

Christie 6:17

you back for just an episode on mom guilt. It is a thing because

Cheryl new 6:21

it has nothing to do about being employed or unemployed. Now if there weren't, that would be something

Christie 6:25

else. No, yeah. Well,

Andrea 6:27

I read this study the other day, um, that maybe is hopefully a little bit of an encouragement for moms or, or parents period that are struggling with guilt about that work life balance. Um. And it was a 50 year study over like the mental and emotional health of children. And what they found was that children who had routines and family rituals, there was. Pretty much no difference in like their, you know, wow. Their, their health and their, their ability to function and things like that later on in life between parents who were staying at home or not at home or whatever. It was actually more about routine. So having the security and safety.

o 7:11

Wow.

Andrea 7:11

They know, like they can anticipate what's gonna happen each day or what, whatever that routine is, whether it's little kids or teenagers or, you know, whatever. Um, but then one thing that was really important for creating. Happy memories was having rituals. So you mentioned Christmas and it's like, it doesn't have to happen on Christmas Day. Right. But your kids always remember like, oh yeah, mom and dad, we always, we always had Christmas and we always whatever in a certain little thing or whatever. It's your family traditions, that's what means so much to kids. Mm-hmm. And it really contributes to their stability, their, their mental health and things like that. You know, just having, like, we always do this or like maybe at Halloween, I didn't make a super cool homemade costume that I spent, you know, hours sewing for you. But I bought you this costume from Target for 20 bucks and that's okay. Like it. And we

Christie 8:05

always went to Target together and that was fun. Target

Andrea 8:08

picked out our costumes and that was such a fun day. And we did that every single year, right? So it can look different. For each family, I think. But as long as you make those things special and fun and you kind of remind them like. We always do it this way. Right. Um, that's okay. Like kids are super resilient.

Cheryl new 8:25

Yeah. What an encouragement that is. And that, that goes, I mean, again, we're not talking about being employed or not mm-hmm. But all of it economically. Mm-hmm. Someone who economically says, well, I can't afford to go to Target and buy it. Right? Right. You know, but then you come up with something else. You just talk about pouring your life out to your children, that you're giving yourself to them and that's what matters. Not the trappings. Mm-hmm. Because that's what that said. Right. Trappings don't matter. Mm-hmm. Actually, maybe love matters. Right? Right.

Tiffany 8:59

Shocker, spoiler alert. It's just the love that really matters. Yeah.

Cheryl new 9:03

Okay, so what are some rhythms or routines or traditions that you have found that have worked for you in your day-to-day life? Overall life that have helped or you've found out helped you with your division of work and mom life?

Tiffany 9:22

I'm glad you said division. I know we keep saying balance, but I will just say that I hate the word balance. It makes me feel stressed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think working moms hear about all the time. Uh,

Cheryl new 9:33

that's true.

Tiffany 9:33

Balance. Balance. Balance. I

Cheryl new 9:35

was reading some things Yeah. Coming in to think about how we could talk about this and balance came in there all the time.

Tiffany 9:42

Yeah. And I just don't think you can. Like you can't balance. And so what I always tell people is if you look at it like seasons and seasons are different, and so there's a season, my husband's going for a promotion and he's studying for six months, and I take on more of the home life, Uhhuh. Um, and then there's a season where I'm trying to build a business, which is really hard those first few years and trying to build a business and he might take on more. And then there's been seasons where I'm caring for an aging parent and taking care of them. And so the rhythms change even from baby to toddler. Mm-hmm. And so for me it's like, it is that flexibility, like, um, just being able to let go of what's not working. To be self-aware enough to notice that like, this isn't working anymore, you know? Um, we, we had a school we loved. I was on the board. I absolutely had no plan to leave it Uhhuh, and it, it was a bit of a drive and one day it just didn't work. I, I mean, it really seemed like it went from one day it working to the next day it didn't. And, you know, several weeks later I just started talking to my husband about like, this isn't. This just isn't working. That drive used to be a blessing, and now it's not. And, and so looking at where we needed to pivot and change and making those changes. So I, I mean, I love having routine, but routine changes, like, you know, and even, even laundry. Like I've done, I've had 70 different systems of laundry, right? And so I know when it starts piling up on my couch, like, this system isn't working any longer, so we need to make a shift or a change here and do something different. So I just feel like it is about seasons and, you know, when I was younger, I, I didn't, we didn't have financially for me to be able to have a house cleaner or like to get that extra help. And as soon as we could, we did, and that was helpful, but. You know, I just also had to be like, my house is not ever gonna be super clean. Like,'cause I'm gonna have eight year olds cleaning it with me. You know? Yeah. That's just how it's gonna be and letting some of those things go. So it's hard for me to say, like, there's ritual, there's just times where I do have to pour more into work. Mm-hmm. And then there's times where I have to be pouring way more into home. But just being willing to look at that and just say like, this isn't working, this is working. Where are you with your spouse or your significant other, like, what do you need in this moment? And just being able to shift it around Wow. And pull in support systems that you hopefully have and, and can use, when you need them. I mean, my ninth grader the other day was like, mom, are we gonna stay at this school all the way through high school? And I was like, yeah.'cause I, we don't have a plan to move. And I go, yeah. And I was like, I mean, we don't have a plan to change, but we will always just change if we need to. Mm-hmm. And so I can't promise you that you're gonna graduate from here, but right now that is our plan. Right. And she was like, okay. She could receive that. But I also think that teaches kids that like life needs to be flexible. You have to leave things to be evaluated, open-minded, you know, and say, Hey, you need, like, this needs to change. You know, like we can't drive out here anymore because mom's helping take care of her mom who's aging and dying and needs help. And these are the things we do, and family comes together and picks up. You know, this kid's sick, so you're gonna do their chores for them. Yeah. While your brother or sister is sick. That's just teaching that how we operate and how we're flexible and we hold everything loosely. Um, while at the same time having our family traditions, having our family rhythms where they feel confident in that flexibility, that they're still grounded with us. Mm-hmm. But that they're seasoned and I just, yeah, that I, that's just for me for working moms. The word balance, I feel like just creates a stress in us because we feel balance is something that can be done perfectly

Cheryl new 13:35

right. well also, uh, one time Bill said somebody was talking about something, he said, what you talking about difference between a static and a dynamic balance? Like if I try to put a book in my hand that's a static balance, I can just hold my hand still and the book will

Cheryl A 13:51

stay there. And usually, that's what balance sounds like. Right? But a dynamic balance is if you're trying to support an upside down broom. In your hand, and so you're moving all the time, see? Mm-hmm. So you're, you're doing it, but it's dynamic. And dynamic has the idea of more and different and better. What a fantastic way. Adapting. Yeah. Adaptive. Mm-hmm. Yes. That you're adapting and moving, going, okay, we're not moving simply To go this direction, but we can see that our family needs that, or this child. I love that word, dynamic. Yes. That you've got going and what a positive spin on it for it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Andrea 14:29

Wow. I don't know how to add really very much that Tiffany. I thought that was great. Yeah, I mean, I, I agree with everything you said, really. Um, I loved what you said about seasons and just staying flexible, staying dynamic in what works for your family right now. You know,'cause that it can change and it's gonna change with your kids' ages. Mm-hmm. Too. Like what your kids need from you as a mom whenever you are at home is. Gonna change as they get older, right? Mm-hmm. And it looks different when they start going to school. Yeah. And then it looks different when they're in high school and maybe they can drive themselves or whatever. So our kids need different things from us at different times of their lives, and we have to figure out how, yeah, how to, what are you gonna say? Instead of balance dynamic, I'm gonna use dynamic balance from now. And I like that actually. Maybe I'm realizing maybe my concept of the word balance. Is that Totally to me, I think about, um, how it has to equal a hundred. Like you only have a hundred percent. So maybe my work life balance is 30% work, 70%. Mm-hmm. Home, I don't know. Mm-hmm. That, so it doesn't have to be, in my mind, I'm not thinking 50 50. And I hadn't even thought about like, oh, you're just adding things and you're holding it. Yeah. That actually makes way more sense. I'm always thinking like, oh, where, like, how much am I gonna touch thing? Right. So maybe I'm. Learning something here about the definition of what balance means when we're talking about it in terms of like our lives and how we, you know, how we split up our time and things like that. So that's interesting.

Cheryl new 16:05

Also wanted to ask you something you alluded to last time, Tiffany, you're talking about it took you a long time to learn When I'm at the hospital'cause you're a nurse. When I'm at

Tiffany 16:15

the hospital.

Cheryl new 16:16

I turn home off. When I'm at home. I try to turn the hospital off and I know that is a real struggle for everybody I know, uh, whatever they're doing, whether they're getting a degree, whatever you're involved in. Mm-hmm. It's really hard to cut it off when you move into something else you care very much about

Carol 16:34

So would y'all talk into that

Cheryl new 16:35

about

Carol 16:36

where the struggle is and then maybe how you

Cheryl A 16:39

deal with it? So, Andrea, let me ask you, are you seasoned at that? Can you hang up your cello? What do you My bow, my cello bow. You're hanging your cello bow at the door.

Andrea 16:52

Well, I literally leave my cello at the school. Oh, so that has helped a little bit. It does. So I have a separate workplace now. I think we talked a little bit about that last time, about how it's helped me to have a separate location to go to and not actually be working in my own backyard

o 17:07

uhhuh.

Andrea 17:08

But, um, I would say I'm not great at it. I do. Um, I have some help, um, from my mom on Wednesdays, which I'm super grateful for. And so I've noticed in this season of life that I've. I try to put things off, like I try to shelve it. Like today I'm focused on, you know, we're doing drums, we're doing art, we're doing this, we're doing that. We're, you know, we're running around doing all these things. I have to focus and be present for those things in order for us to have a good day. But on Wednesday, I'm gonna make these phone calls. I'm gonna send these emails. So trying to kind of not let. Everything feel like it's an emergency. And I mean now sometimes there are work emergencies. Sometimes somebody has a question. It has to be answered right now. Yeah. Especially when you're the employer or you're self employed. Mm-hmm. Or you have your own business, or maybe you have a very high stress job where you know, you're, you're the only person who can answer that question. Um, but as much as possible, I think when something comes in that has to be done. I think, is this actually urgent or can it wait? Oh, that's really good. And, I'm a list person, so I've got like hundreds of lists going on my phone, you know, like, but you know, one of'em is called Wednesday and it's all my business stuff or personal things, and I'm gonna go run around and do, and I'm just gonna have that dedicated time. So that's about the best I can do right now. But there are definitely times where I struggle. You know, you, you get home at the end of the day and you're. You're tired'cause you've been working all day, you've been answering questions, you've been talking to people. And then you walk into your kids who maybe they're tired and they need things and they're hungry and they're ready. You know? And that can feel very overwhelming. Of course. I think we probably all struggle with that to a certain extent. Um. But yeah. Still working on it. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany 18:52

And it'll change. And it'll change. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, when I worked at the hospital, I, um, I had a process that I really, as I walked in, so I, I liked to have visuals in my head, Uhhuh. So as I walked in to the hospital, like through those doors, I just imagined life, like staying behind me. Wow. So I would walk in and like, leave it basically. Um. Obviously I knew they were in good hands and taking care of and stuff. Yeah. But, you know, I worked, ICUI needed to be fully and completely present for my patients. Um, and then same thing when I left, you know, I would imagine it like staying in the hospital and, and sometimes if there were hard cases. Sit in the car. So emotional and cry and cry for 20 minutes or something and then be like, okay, that's done. I'm leaving. I'm going home. And when I'm home, I'm home. Um, I mean, that's something I work with a lot of first responders that we talk with them about.'cause it's very hard for them not to bring it home. So just some kind of process. We'll tell them, like maybe leave your boots in the, um, garage and your work boots. Never go in the house. And that's like a mental reminder of like, that's good, I'm leaving work here. Or maybe you shower at the station before you come home. And that shower's like, I'm showering off this day so I can be present when I'm home. Mm-hmm. Um, when I talked about having that drive to school, that was what I loved about, that I had dedicated time and that drive to kind of leave the kids behind and then recommit, um, to work. It's hardest when you're working from home. And so that's the building a business, you're getting those answers and it's just learning to set those boundaries. You know, like you said, I, if you have an office in your home, I think that's great. Like, I'm only gonna work when I'm in that room. Mm-hmm. Um, and then same thing, like I'm gonna leave it in there and then be here when I'm out. Um. I mean, I do answer, but I try to be present for my kids when they get home from school. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I try to not answer emails or text until after they're in bed. And then I'll maybe do like 30 minutes of just answering, um, like you said, I'm big on, um. Listing the top five things that need to be done that day. Oh, that's good. And so it's like, what are the most important things?'cause your to-do list can, when you're an entrepreneur or business owner, can be 25 things, but really, yeah, really most days there's only five that need to be done. Right, exactly. That have to be done, you know, and so listing those out and then being able to check off those five things, um, same thing like my Tuesdays and Thursdays are work at home days are like, get other things done. So yeah. I'll be like, that has to stay to the next day. Mm-hmm. I never have my ringer on on my phone, which stresses my husband out. Be honest. One of my older kids, she's kids. She's first

Andrea 21:37

responders. Yeah, exactly. One of

Tiffany 21:40

my older kids the other day goes, I'm gonna change my emergency contact to dad'cause she never answered phone. And I said, that is a really wise decision. Right. That's a really wise decision. Practical. He always answers his phone and I don't, but that's just a boundary I had to set because it was dinging all the time. Yeah. And then I would look at it and be distracted and have kids, and so I just am like, I can check when I check it, and it's not an emergency. If someone messages me about business, me not responding immediately. I feel like texting has made this even harder because we feel like we have to answer. Immediately, but you know what, we don't. Mm-hmm. Like I have, I have messages from days ago that need to be responded to. Yeah. I look at'em. If it's not emergent, I leave it, you know, check it as unread and then go back on those days when I have time and go through'em. So I think just learning some tools like that, that you can do, and being able to set those boundaries. I've

Andrea 22:35

noticed for me, like, because,'cause we run the school, you know, um, when I get something like that where it's like. So and so needs to know this, this, and that and the other, whatever. It's like a, it's a business thing and I, when I tend to that, immediately, it's frustrating for me and for the kids.

o 22:53

Hmm.

Andrea 22:53

And all those things add up, right? Because then I'm like, okay. Please stop talking to me for just a minute. I'm just trying to finish this one thing. Mm-hmm. And you

Cheryl new 23:00

this one thing, this one thing, one thing. Just need one thing. I've done this so many times. Need, can you please

Andrea 23:03

just, can you help, can you help your brother with that? Yeah. Because I'm just trying to finish this one thing and so then I'm irritated. Right. And then

Tiffany 23:11

they're irritated. They,

Andrea 23:12

the kids are pretty patient with me, but Yes. But it, it, those things can contribute to like stress and tension in their life too. Whereas if I had just said like, oh, I'm just not gonna even look at that, I'm not marked that as unread, like you said. Um. Maybe that can contribute to a little more peace when I am at home.

Tiffany 23:29

Right. I think our head says like, oh, this'll only be a second, so let me just go ahead and get it done. Yeah. Answers really quick. But again, it's like you have to be present where you're present, and if it's not work time, it's family time, then you just don't answer it. Like, unless it's love that literally an on fire emergency. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You just don't answer. So they call Norm say it. It's literally on. Yeah. If it's on fire, they're not calling me anyway. They're calling him, so I don't have to worry about it.

Cheryl new 23:53

see, we talk about this all the time on here. We do a whole series about this tyrant Yes. Of the iPhone sitting right here in front of us and everybody. All people would listen to what you're saying. Yeah. Let's be present where we're present, and then do our phone work at another point because it's excellent advice. Mm-hmm. Whatever. And you know, I'm listening particularly. Tiffany having a lot of experience in years that you've worked through this, and I heard a lot of positives that your kids are getting out of this. Mm-hmm. A lot of things. You're working into it and you mentioned the flexibility and the teamwork and there were just so many positives that people might not have thought of, but if this tyrant of the phone and the texting and the dinging that would be taking away from that instead of you being able to pour in. And, um. Increase the positive. You are keeping the worlds separate. And it's one thing when they used to have to call you in a landline. Right. Or email you in a blog or something. Right. But this tyrant right here mm-hmm. Makes it

Carol 25:03

so much harder! You have to be on it. And I'd love you all drawing those boundaries. That's, yeah. I

Christie 25:09

just hear so much intentionality. Yes, absolutely. From both of you with the, the Wednesday list and the boundaries with your phone, it, it's just so good. I know that, you know. I've talked to stay at home moms, and they're like, I'm with her all day long. How could I spend, you know, like, well, not wanting to do the one-on-one times they're not wanting, right? Because you're just always together. We're best friends, right? We're always here, you know, but. Sometimes you forget to be intentional, right? When it's just a lot of, um, loosey goosey time together where you guys are choosing this is for this time. This is for this time. Yeah. Yeah. That's really helpful. I

Andrea 25:46

read a study the other day. I, I'm eneagram five.

Cheryl new 25:53

Look this up for me. Yeah.

Andrea 25:55

Like, when I start researching, I do a deep dive. Well, there was this study that I think is pretty often cited, like in parenting, like literature and stuff. It's an older study, so it's been around for a while, but it basically said that if you spend 20 minutes with your child every day doing something that essentially that they wanna do, and it doesn't have to be like, you know. Like maybe with a toddler it is, I'm gonna get down on the floor and play with you. Mm-hmm. Whatever, but it's like no commands. So it's not saying like. Can you do this, do that? No, don't do that. It's no, you know, no. Like questions or like, it's just child led time. And so that, once again, it's gonna look very different depending on, on your age. It's just

Cheryl new 26:37

relationship.

Andrea 26:37

Yeah. But 20 minutes a day. So for a teenager that might be there hanging out on the end of your bed and you know, or you're, you going up to their room and visit and just say like, what, Hey, what you, what are you doing?

o 26:47

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 26:48

What, which game are you playing? Or what do you, you know, and just let them talk and just, you're, you're hanging out with your undivided attention. Wow. With each child for 20 minutes. Now, if you have six kids, that's a lot of time, so maybe that needs to be some group activities or whatever, but I found that that helps so much and it can alleviate mom guilt. Mm-hmm. Like we were talking about earlier. It's intentional and it fills. It fills up their emotional needs.

o 27:16

Mm.

Andrea 27:17

And I think, you know, it maybe, maybe it doesn't have to be every single day. Right. You know, if you can't manage that. But I think on those days where I feel really overextended and I've worked and I've taught, taught and I've given everybody my time.

o 27:29

Yeah. Right.

Andrea 27:30

I feel emotionally drained. I know that like at the end of the day, if I can spend a few minutes, which with each of my kids

o 27:37

mm-hmm.

Andrea 27:37

Doing. Just being at ease, not looking at my phone, not, you know, saying, Hey, we've gotta, we've gotta clean up the kitchen. Go do this, go do that. Feed the cat. Mm-hmm. Blah, blah, blah. It's not chore time, we're just spending quality time. Mm-hmm. And it can be, in short, it can be broken up into pieces or it can be in one chunk. Wow. But having those little connection points. Right. Um. Is so good for them. And anyway, the study basically said like, that's all kids really need, right? Like for them to be happy and healthy and functional adults. Yeah. Um, so I thought that was so interesting. Good. Especially as a working mom and you know. You can feel like, oh, I didn't, I didn't give my kids what they needed today. But actually they don't. They don't need that much. They just need some really focused, undivided attention time with me.

Christie 28:25

Right. And we don't always know when those moments are happening. That's right. They might not always be scheduled. I. Don't even know how many times my grown kids have said, oh, I loved when we used to always do this, and it would be something we did once. I know. I'm like, I remember doing that one time. That funny. I know. It's so funny. And you know, it's also positive and negative. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's like, oh, you never let us that. And like I said, no one time. Yeah. And but to your point, you know, we, we don't know when they're really absorbing that quality time. And it might be that we didn't even intend it was like. I run to Target and Right. You know, we were eating popcorn and laughing and that just really meant something to them. To them. Yeah. And I, I think the small things really do add up more than we realize. Yeah. Well,

Cheryl new 29:08

and if you think about someone you really care about, okay. And so maybe a spouse, or it could be a friend or a family member and you really en you love it and you go. Oh, I just have 15 minutes. Let's just sit and talk about, you know. Mm-hmm. Whatever. Mm-hmm. Let, mm-hmm. And, and you just sit. Yeah. All I wanted to tell you about when we went to

Carol 29:28

to that restaurant Last month and da and you just get to sit and absorb. Mm. Yeah. The relationship. That's all. That's what you're talking about. It's really about being present. Yeah. It's just love. Yeah. Again, and back to like being present

Tiffany 29:39

those 20 minutes, it's'cause you were present and focused on them. You're not distracted doing 50 other things. And I think it does eliminate so much mom guilt if you can be present when you're there.'cause you can hang out with them all day and then leave and go and not never be with them. I don't, I don't even know what happened today. Yeah. Days like I wasn't really with them, you know? Yes.

Andrea 29:58

So.'cause I only work part-time, so I have days at the school, days at home, days at school, and. For me, sometimes those days at home, we crammed so many things in that one day running. I'm dropping off, picking up doing, dropping off. Picking up. Mm-hmm. It's so much stuff that by the end of the day, sometimes I'll tell my child or sometimes they'll tell me, I feel like I hardly saw you today. And I'm like, I know we were kind of together all day, but we like, we didn't really have a good time. Right. Yeah.

Cheryl new 30:27

Y'all are so interesting. Okay. We kind of need to wrap this up. If we have someone listening and they're getting ready to step into the workforce, or they're new in the workforce, they're young in this, juggling of work and home and family and work, what advice or what if they had two minutes to sit with you, what would you say to that? Mom?

Andrea 30:53

Oh,

Cheryl new 30:54

That's a

Andrea 30:55

good question. I guess I would say. Give yourself grace, because when children have all of their physical needs met, so they're safe, they're warm, they're fed, they really just need to know that they're loved, and that can go a very long way. So try to release the things that don't maybe matter so much like you said about, you know. Doing all the extra, you know, I'm the supermom, I did all these things, or Oh, I made every single meal from scratch. Or yeah, you know, do what you have to do practically. To just prioritize what really, really matters Good. And not get so hung up or feel guilty or shame because I had to take my kids to Chick-fil-A for the second time this week to make this work. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Whatever it is. You know, like just kind of let go of some of those more superficial things and focus on the relationship and caring for their emotional needs and caring for yourself so that you can continue to. You know, do what you have to do. Excellent, excellent.

Tiffany 32:05

Yeah, that was really good. Yeah.

Cheryl new 32:06

Alright. Tiffany, you've come a long way. Yes. In this journey. What would you say to that? Mom who's just going back to work or is just thinking about it, what advice would you give her?

Tiffany 32:21

I mean, I would say grace upon grace. Upon grace. Upon grace. That's what we say all the time. You know, just give yourself all the grace, um, that you possibly can. Again, I would say just be present where you are. Yeah. And so that you're able to feel like you did a good job at both places. Um, good. You know, and I think we did kind of talk about that, but it's like even when people are at work, they feel like they're not doing a great job at work'cause they're thinking about home. So it's goes both ways, not just feeling like you're not being a good mom, so being present where you are and then again, just. Being open to seasons and flexibility and if a system isn't working, if something isn't working, then look at how you need to change it and make a plan and change it. You know, I love it.

Cheryl new 33:07

I hear humility all, all in that going back and saying, I'm sorry, like you're talking about the school choices while ago to be real and genuine and to apologize. I mean, it's the way we talk about we should live life with everybody and. So thinking about your children when they're 30 and 40 and 50 years old. Mm-hmm. Someone who lives their life like this. Employed or not, but just particularly this, the employment is giving the opportunity kind of forcing you into these choices, if you will. Right, right. Okay. It's forced you,'cause you care so much about your family, you care about your business, so you are making those good choices. Budgeting, if you will, your money, budgeting your time well, and look at what your kids are learning. They're watching about how it's done. Mm-hmm. You mentioned your parents both working, I'm presuming,'cause I know who your mom is. Mm-hmm. I'm presuming they did it Well, she did

Tiffany 34:05

so well. Oh, she was amazing yeah.

Cheryl new 34:08

And that you watch that, look how it affected your life. Mm-hmm. And so then what y'all are doing, the way you're describing it, what a gift you're giving your children. Um, outside. Of the other benefits that you get from being employed. Right.

Tiffany 34:24

The main lessons we give our kids aren't what we say to them. Right. You better believe that. And these aren't lessons that right now they would say, mom showed me this, but as you age and look back, you're like, oh, my mom showed me this. So hopefully they will see that you can have flexibility. You can have season, you can still have a core anchor and a priority of family while still having a profession and a career, if that's what you choose, or if it's a necessity for you. Mm-hmm.

Andrea 34:49

Yeah. My mom always tells me like, well, what would you say to your sister or to your best friend?

o 34:56

Hmm. Like,

Andrea 34:57

how would you encourage them? You know, like, it's like, be nice to yourself, right? Like, when you're feeling guilty about, well, I didn't do this, or I didn't do that, or I should've done this, or whatever. It's like. Well, if it was somebody else, you'd say like, don't worry about it. You're doing a great job. Mm-hmm. Like, oh no, it doesn't matter that you, whatever, whatever it is. Right. Um, so just to be kind to yourself and treat yourself like somebody that you care about. Yeah, talk to yourself. Yeah. Which want to teach our children. Hundred percent. Yeah.

Tiffany 35:26

I mean, I'm so over the mom guilt thing, but like this morning, like just before I came here, my daughter came in, she's like, mom, I missed my private lesson this morning. I totally forgot about we, I just totally forgot about a crazy week. And she was like, like, I missed this. And I was like. I'm sorry. And she was like anxious about it. Like, Aw, well I think the coach was mad. And I'm like, no, she's not. She's not mad. It's not your fault, you know? And she's like, but, but I was supposed to be there. I was like, you were supposed to be there. And we always wanna try to show up if we can, but we also all make mistakes and we made a mistake and we forgot, and I'll let her know. And it's really not that big of a deal, but I'm like that, that's just how we do life, right? Mm-hmm. It's like I, it's fine to make a mistake. It's fine to not show up. Whereas, you know. Uh, the, the beginning of my mothering career, I would've, I would've been horrified. Yeah. And embarrassed that I had forgotten that, and I'm just like, oh, sorry. Blew it again. I'll see you next week. Get used to it, because I'm, yeah.

Cheryl 36:23

we're

Cheryl new 36:25

It's fine. Yeah. I'm just listening to this going, what a beautiful way to mentor your daughter. Mm. Right. And what you're showing her is going, oh, it's not about perfection. It's about relationship. It's about being genuine and being willing to say, I'm sorry.

Tiffany 36:42

Yeah. Like authentic. That's what I said. I'm like authentic. I'm sure. I'm sure your coach has missed something she was supposed to be at too. So she's she's not gonna be angry. I'll let her know it was on me and um, yes, I think it is just. Being, being who you are and being okay. Making mistakes and missing things, and not showing up when you're, but

Andrea 37:03

acknowledging them to your kids is a super important aspect of that. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, if you're trying to convince your kids that you're perfect, they're the first ones. They're gonna be like, eh, they, they definitely know you're

Tiffany 37:15

not. And they point it out. Yeah. So it's

Andrea 37:16

gonna, it's going to fare better for you in the long run. If you can just say like, no, you're right. I am so sorry. I was really overwhelmed. I totally forgot. I knew it was today, but I didn't put it on my calendar. Mm-hmm. Or I didn't look at the calendar or whatever, like I'm so sorry that we missed that. That was my fault. Right. But it's okay. Yeah. But it's okay. And they will accept that. Yeah. In my experience, my kids accept that. Yeah. And

Christie 37:40

owning it just helps them to process life of. Perfectionism is battled there, right? Mm-hmm. Giving grace to others is battled there, and just if life, if this world's spinning depends on that child getting to that practice. We're in trouble. We're in trouble. Yeah. Or, and so just priorities, right? You know, you're teaching your kids what matters most is our mental health and sanity on a daily basis, right?

Cheryl new 38:06

And loving each other.

Christie 38:07

Yeah,

Cheryl new 38:08

this is y. What y'all are talking about is living out love. Mm-hmm. Right. That's really grace. Wow. This was wonderful. So good, wasn't it? This was so good. Thank you both so much for coming in. Will you come back? Yes, ly love to thank. Okay. So we gotta get those kind of work calendar things that we can figure out what we

Tiffany 38:26

Yeah, that was hard. Working moms. Yeah, working moms was hard to get scheduled, but we did

Cheryl new 38:32

it

Andrea 38:32

Yes.

Cheryl new 38:33

so parents, hang in there. Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.

Speaker 2 38:40

Whether you work outside the home or not. If you are walking away, still carrying the weight of, am I doing enough? I hope something we said loosened that grip just a bit. Living at a constant sprint isn't proof of love. Sometimes the wisest move is simply noticing what isn't working anymore. Thoughtful adjustments aren't failure. Their maturity. Your kids aren't keeping scored on your productivity. They're learning from how you handle pressure. How you repair, how you return to connection, that's the work that lasts. You can always reach us at contact@theparentingpodcast.com. I'm really glad you were here.