The Hard Moments Aren’t the Whole Story | Ep. 211

Family life is full of moments that don’t go the way we hoped they would — and so much of love is built in what happens next. This conversation starts with young moms raising little kids, but it reaches into something every parent recognizes: the long, imperfect, deeply human work of finding our way back to each other again.

Transcript

Cheryl 0:00

We've got

Carol 0:00

reactive people reacting to someone else who's reacting, and suddenly everything is reactive all over the place.

Speaker 0:10

A few weeks ago, we started a conversation with a couple of young moms who are right in the middle of raising little kids. And by the end of it, none of us really felt finished. Because even though the stories are coming from the little kid years, the things we were talking about reach far beyond them. The reactions we wish we could redo, the moments that escalate before anybody even understands why, the returning and repairing that becomes such a central part of loving people over time. So we sat back down and kept

0:53

going.

Christie 1:02

I love having new friends to TPP. Yes, absolutely. We had such a good time with you girls last time. I'm glad to have you back today.

Madi 1:11

Thanks.

Christie 1:12

Good to be there. Maddie and Brie remind our listeners, ages of your kids real briefly.

Madi 1:18

Yes, I have a. Almost 6-year-old and a 3-year-old. Okay.

Bre 1:22

And I have a three and a half year old and a pretty much 2-year-old.

Madi 1:27

Okay. And

Bre 1:28

in a few weeks, a

Madi 1:28

boy and girl in each of

Bre 1:29

your

Madi 1:29

families?

Cheryl 1:30

Mm-hmm. Oh good. Oh good.

Christie 1:32

Yes. Yes.

Cheryl 1:34

Alright. We had a great time last time. Asking questions and talking yes. Mm-hmm. Okay. Because like I said, you're the experts at parenting young children 'cause you are doing it. Okay. Yeah. So what you got for us?

Madi 1:47

Oh, I, I'm struggling right now with, um, mean words in our home. Mm-hmm. You

Cheryl 1:56

or them?

Madi 1:57

Them.

Bre 1:57

That's a good question actually. Uhhuh. Yes.

Madi 2:00

Well. Yeah. Because the mean words come out of their mouth and I'm like, where in the world did you hear that from? Like, why? Why are you saying that? I mean, going back to the screens, I'm like, what have you been watching? Yeah. Um, but yeah, what do I do? How do I tune their hearts to not want to say those things?

Cheryl 2:23

Mm. Well, mm-hmm. I mean, you

Carol 2:25

just uncovered one of the biggest truths of all. The shock in parenting and I feel the frustration. Mm-hmm. I know it well. Because what we see and live in is behavior. And I quote my very favorite Paul Tripp remember

Cheryl 2:44

you may be working with the behavior, but you're dealing with the hearts. Yeah.

Christie 2:49

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 2:49

And so if I could give one principle on parenting, that's always it. Remember? Yeah. 'cause they're screaming at one another or having a tantrum or they've. Ignored you and walked out the front door when they weren't allowed to. Mm-hmm. All of that. And what we are doing is living in real moments with the real behavior.

Bre 3:08

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 3:08

Mm-hmm. And I just go back to Wise King Solomon, who one time said. Remember, it's the heart. Always focus on the heart because it's like uh, water spring bursting up that that's where everything comes from. Yeah. Yeah. So that's. The issue, we have to deal with the behavior.

Christie 3:30

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 3:30

But we really want to think about their hearts. Yeah.

Christie 3:34

That's what I was thinking with the, dealing with the behavior. It's hard 'cause you have to work at both fronts. Oh yeah. Because, well, especially with words. I mean, that's something that affects other people

Madi 3:43

for sure.

Christie 3:43

So you've gotta kind of, you know, keep the carnage minimal while you're waiting on that deep heart change, that might take a long time.

Cheryl 3:50

And the problem is we're dealing in real

Christie 3:53

time. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 3:54

With our lives and with them and everything. Everything that's going, you

Bre 3:57

know?

Christie 3:57

Yeah.

Cheryl 3:58

There we go. You know? But think about it, you have become experts at multitasking. Think about what it takes to drive a car and someone for the first time behind their wheel, they are trying to think, oh wait, I need to push the gas and lift up off of the brake and I need to do this, and I have to move over and, and now you don't even think about driving and it's so complex. Um, mm-hmm. So you

Carol 4:26

multitask all the time. And it becomes natural. So in parenting we have to do the same thing. Mm-hmm. We have to work on all of these fronts. Yeah.

Madi 4:34

Yeah.

Cheryl 4:35

Alright, so let's go back to what you're saying. Give us Uh, real time example,

Madi 4:39

yes. Yeah. So the stupid word is kind of the biggest one in our house right now. And it's just, it's honestly hilarious kind of watching. Um, the two of them say, you're stupid. You're a butthead, you're stupid. You're butthead and I mean, that's what they say back and forth, but at some point it's like, that's so sad that you're saying that to, you know, someone you love.

Bre 5:04

Mm-hmm.

Madi 5:04

Someone who has value and. like, why are you saying that? Also, please don't say that to me. Mm. I am your mother.

Christie 5:11

Mm-hmm.

Madi 5:12

Yeah, what do I do with that?

Cheryl 5:13

Okay. Well, now this is a little bit of a hot topic, okay? Because off mic Bree, we were talking about different families have different standards and values. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yes. And particularly we say different applications.

Madi 5:26

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 5:27

Right? So some parents, some families may say, we think this is fine to say, and so that's fine. That's their value.

Madi 5:34

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 5:35

But what I'm hearing from you is this is not your value to speak like this.

Madi 5:39

I think like the word stupid. Yeah, I think is okay. Like that was a stupid thing or whatever. Um, but calling someone stupid or, or saying something else that's more harsh than that. To someone

Christie 5:53

attacking their person. Yes. Yeah.

Cheryl 5:55

Mm-hmm.

Madi 5:56

Yeah.

Cheryl 5:56

Okay, so then we go back to kind of what we talked about last time is I think what's really important is not deal with the symptoms. Okay, we have to say. What is the value underneath this process? How do I really feel about this? Why do I not want them saying it? Am I a people pleaser who just doesn't want them to say, grandma, you're stupid and a butthead, and I would be embarrassed at that. Or is it because we really believe in the dignity and value of other people?

Madi 6:30

Hmm.

Cheryl 6:30

Um, and we're not

Carol 6:32

going to use words

Cheryl 6:34

that devalue

Carol 6:35

others. Mm-hmm. So if that's your value, then I would say you need to process it and it's important I think, to act out of your values. I'm going To use that word correctly now. This probably the stupidest thing that I said in my childhood and. We could fill this entire building with stupid things I said and did. Mm-hmm. But one of the stupidest things that we would say to each other is, sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

Christie 7:09

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 7:10

And that's an absolute lie.

Christie 7:12

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 7:13

Um, because I actually had a sibling throw a rock at me. And I had to get stitches, and I still have a little scar from that, but the scars from what people have said to me,

Bre 7:26

yeah.

Cheryl 7:27

Uh, line my soul.

Bre 7:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cheryl 7:30

And it's a long time healing from that. So, uh, if it is the value that we don't use sticks and stone words against people, then I would process that and then remember. When it's the issue, we deal with it. When it's not the issue, we discuss it.

Madi 7:48

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 7:48

So since you're asking me, this is what I would do 'cause I have that value.

Madi 7:53

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 7:54

And so I would process it away from them and decide, no, we're not going to use words that hurt because we're gonna show value with our words. Just like if they were to pick up a big stick and hit the other person.

Madi 8:07

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 8:08

I, would stop it. Mm-hmm. Because you know, we're not gonna act out our anger against another person. Well, personally, my value would be words are included in that.

Bre 8:17

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 8:17

It's a

Bre 8:18

form of anger saying mean names and

Cheryl 8:21

it's a way of hurting another person where they wouldn't get away with hitting one another with sticks.

Bre 8:26

Yeah, for sure.

Cheryl 8:27

They're getting away with hitting one another with words.

Madi 8:29

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 8:30

So if that is your value, so let's say Yeah, it is. Yeah. So then I process it when I'm not with them. Then I come back and we do like what we've talked about, go, Hey, we want to have a good conversation and maybe you have a special treat, or something that we can nibble on

Carol 8:47

as we

Cheryl 8:48

Talk and we have the conversation And let's see. So I'm trying to think how could I bring them along? I think what I would do is do it individually and I would look for a time where you've seen someone else hurt them with words.

Madi 9:03

Mm.

Cheryl 9:03

And then use that as an example let's say your daughter, and say, Hey, let's, go to Sonic, or whatever. Mm-hmm. And while you're there, say, Hey, can we have a conversation? You know, the other day when this happened and this person said these things, how did that make you feel? And then you start talking about how the words made her feel.

Christie 9:23

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 9:23

And then you talk about it and. From that extrapolate with them. See words can hurt. Just like when someone punches someone, it hurts. Words can hurt us on a deep area, place where nobody sees.

Madi 9:39

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 9:39

And you start having that kind of a conversation. And walk with them together about it, how hard it is, how it hurts, and walk along and say, so one of the things we want to in our family is not hurt one another with our words.

Madi 9:56

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 9:56

Can you think of the kind of words that might hurt somebody else? And hopefully they can kind of begin to bring them up.

Madi 10:03

Yeah.

Cheryl 10:04

Does that make sense? First, have her identify with what's happening, and then walk her along to see, because of our values, we don't want to do that, and I'm gonna protect you from other people doing it to you. And by the way, I'm gonna protect other people and not allow you to do it to them.

Madi 10:23

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 10:24

How does that sound?

Madi 10:26

Yeah. I think for me, I have told her. These things, like why we value people and um, why we don't wanna say these words and actually like what the words mean. Yeah. Like what she's mm-hmm. Which has helped. Um, but it's just, she just keeps doing it and in the moment it's just like

Christie 10:47

mm-hmm.

Madi 10:48

Marching back to her room. It's usually, you know, it's all goes back to, um, when she's in trouble or whatever. I'm, I'm telling her to go to her room for a minute to sit and then we'll chat. But, um. On the way back to her room is when she's firing out all these mean things. Mm-hmm. Um, just in, out of anger, you know? Mm-hmm. Yep.

Christie 11:07

I wonder if, uh, you could watch and see if you could find the root of what she's angry about. Mm-hmm. It may not be the specific scenario that she's screaming or that she's saying these words.

Madi 11:20

Mm-hmm.

Christie 11:21

It might be that there's something. A little deeper or a common thread. I think, you know, you hear the phrase, hurt people. Hurt people. And if someone's feeling some insecurity or that they're, you know, I remember mine, they'd be like. The game is stupid. I hate Monopoly, or I hate in can or whatever, because mm-hmm. They lost last time. Right. And then three weeks later when we're playing again, they're, no, I don't wanna play that game. It's dumb. Well, you used to love it. Well, they lost one time and now we can't play anymore. You know? And so, you know, if there's maybe some insecurity I'm not meaning to put words in her, but just examples, like if they're feeling stupid, maybe now they're, they're putting that on other people to kind of. Handle some of those feelings that they don't know how to navigate.

Madi 12:02

Mm-hmm.

Christie 12:03

Or, or

Cheryl 12:03

loss of control.

Christie 12:04

Yeah.

Cheryl 12:05

They're not in control and they're trying to regain control by using their words.

Madi 12:10

Yep, for

Christie 12:11

sure. Because I think they say like, anger is the simplest emotion, you know? And a lot of times there's other emotions below it. It could be hurt, it could be insecurity, it could be sadness. Lots of other, what we would. Classify as negative emotions. Mm-hmm. I mean, there are no negative emotions. One kind, but it's easiest and safest to the surface.

Bre 12:29

Surface.

Christie 12:30

Yeah.

Cheryl 12:31

And also,, I don't know if y'all have ever read Whole Brain Child.

Christie 12:34

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 12:34

Okay. Mm-hmm. So go back and listen to our episodes. We did a whole series on the whole brain child, and it's just teaching how our brains actually work, how our children's brains work, and then working with it. And one of the problems. What Christie just described and what we're describing is an amygdala hijack. Mm-hmm.

Madi 12:52

For sure.

Cheryl 12:53

There's a reactive thing that happens and then your emotions take over, anger takes over, whatever rejection they take over, and then you don't think clearly. Mm-hmm. You can't. Uh, self-regulate your emotions. Mm-hmm. And so I hear a lot of deregulation. Yeah. And instead of withdrawing or crying, she's lashing out.

Christie 13:15

Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl 13:15

So

Christie 13:16

in that book that he talks about the connect and redirect, and so if you can get her to either share verbally with you or If you can get her to talk with you, open up and find the root, or if just observation, you can find some things that might be, you know, if it's always directed towards one person or at the same time of day every, you know, right after school or,

Bre 13:39

yeah,

Christie 13:39

that's good. Um, and then connect and validate those emotions like. Gosh, I bet you're really having a hard time with brother getting this, or, you know, whatever you think it might be, and validate it and then say, let's think of some better ways we could express that. Like

Madi 13:54

mm-hmm.

Christie 13:55

Maybe, you know, they need an apology. Maybe there was something really that needed to be dealt with that hasn't been dealt with. Um, yeah, but connecting and redirecting can be really helpful in something like that.

Bre 14:06

I feel like all of this could be used. With myself as well. Oh yeah. I have a problem with just like yelling, reactiveness. Um, so I feel like just kind of what Christy was saying, just. honestly, like connecting with them as well. Like instead of just blaming them or being upset that I asked them something and they didn't, um, do what I said, you know, the first time, just like getting to their level and connecting with them before I react. Mm-hmm. Um,

Cheryl 14:35

wow.

Bre 14:36

It can be a big. Game changer.

Cheryl 14:39

Bre. That is a game changer. It's not. Could be. It's huge.

Christie 14:42

Yeah.

Cheryl 14:43

What, what you're doing is, again, instead of oppositional

Christie 14:47

uhhuh,

Cheryl 14:47

y'all are coming on the same side.

Bre 14:49

Yes. Like working as a team instead of me against them. Kind of what we were talking about the last episode. But, um, I feel like. I'm really quick to react and that can not be their fault.

Christie 15:01

Yeah,

Bre 15:02

it's, it may not even be what they're doing. It may be my circumstance or like something that's on my mind or maybe we haven't connected enough that day or that week and whatever reason I'm just. Lashing out.

Christie 15:17

Yeah.

Cheryl 15:17

We've got

Carol 15:18

lashing Out reactive people reacting to someone else who's reacting, and suddenly everything is deregulated and reactive all over the place,

Bre 15:27

and they really. Feed off of our emotions. Mm-hmm. And we feed

Christie 15:32

off of theirs.

Bre 15:33

Exactly. We're all like coexisting. Yes. This house together. So it, I'm learning too, you know, we're, of course, I'm constantly learning. I don't have all the answers and so it's really always a learning curve for me. Yeah.

Christie 15:45

I think, something I don't think I realized when my kids were young is that we're a lot more alike than I realized. Like they really are just like. Little people, and I'm just a big person and we're all just figuring out, we're trying to figure it out, how to navigate our emotions together. I have a few years on 'em, but, um, you know. As my girls are now young adults, they're having that epiphany. They're like, oh, wow. You're not much different than we are. And so, you know, we are just trying to, like you said, coexist in life together, figuring out our emotions.

Cheryl 16:16

So we just used her and daughter. It's just easier we'll say.

Christie 16:20

Yeah.

Cheryl 16:21

The older ones are daughters and the younger ones are brothers. Just, I don't know what your situation is, but going back to like the whole brain child

Christie 16:28

mm-hmm.

Cheryl 16:29

And other good teaching about using our brains and our emotions and self-awareness and other awareness. One of the very best things is just SOS. You stop. Can you stop yourself for a second?

Bre 16:45

Mm.

Cheryl 16:45

Take a couple of breaths. And we oxygenate, but breath doesn't work. And then seek to figure out what's going on.

Bre 16:53

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 16:54

And

Carol 16:54

I wish I'd had this tool, Christie. Mm-hmm.

Bre 16:57

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 16:57

I have found it enormously helpful With my grandchildren. Under two.

Bre 17:03

Yeah.

Cheryl 17:04

Reminding that, wait just a minute, let's just all take a breath together. And we came up even with one of 'em didn't want to

Carol 17:12

to take breaths, So we said, look, I've got like something about dinosaur with our fingers. Can you blow the fire out on the dinosaurs? Oh, cute. Mm-hmm. Something we did. So they would blow the dinosaur fire. Mm-hmm. I don't know. I don't remember exactly what we did. But guess what the psychologists will tell you, taking deep breaths, drink a drink of water, pausing, and you're not being hijacked.

Christie 17:38

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 17:38

And your chemistry of your brain actually changes. Mm-hmm. And so sometimes, literally if you go, Hey, Would you like some water? And it actually calms all of us down.

Bre 17:48

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 17:48

So you're right. And I love it. 'cause you said, well, I'm learning all the time. You have no idea all that I'm, I mean, I just, I have a much better grasp on how much I don't know.

Bre 18:00

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 18:01

Because I've had all these decades go, man, I don't know. Anything. And it just keeps accumulating. And that's why I love learning from experts that really know what they're talking about.

Bre 18:11

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 18:12

And so I have to regulate myself before I can really do a great job helping my children to regulate.

Christie 18:20

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 18:20

Mm-hmm.

Bre 18:20

There are times where I, I do good and I proud of myself for like taking a breath but I think the hardest times is like, when. And this is somewhat recent 'cause they're still pretty young.

Cheryl 18:29

Yeah.

Bre 18:30

Um, just they're, they're learning each other as well, but like, when they start fighting

Cheryl 18:35

Mm.

Bre 18:35

And like physically fighting. Mm-hmm. And it's like, okay, how, how long do I let this go on? Like, do I, like, let them work it out? Do I like step in my, like, just personality? I'm, I'm like, I wanna be loud to get their attention. Mm-hmm. So that's kind of my go-to is like, hey, like knock it off you guys. Mm-hmm. You know? And. This kind of segues into another thing, but just correcting, um, different personalities like the yelling and the knock it off. Um, might work for one of my kids, but the other might get really scared by it. Mm-hmm. So it's like finding that balance of getting everyone to coexist, ineffectively. Yeah.

Cheryl 19:19

Well,

Bre 19:19

and I know it will never be perfect, but, mm-hmm.

Cheryl 19:22

Okay. One of my high values is togetherness and harmony, but. I remember the first time I heard that peace is not the absence of conflict because here's the problem, it just goes underground and it can go underground different ways if you stop the conflict and you don't go to the root issues.

Bre 19:46

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 19:46

Because remember, we deal with what we see on the surface, but we really need to deal with the heart.

Bre 19:52

Mm.

Cheryl 19:52

And so. For example, if someone yelled, or even now someone yelled at me, I shut down.

Bre 19:59

Yeah.

Cheryl 19:59

I went underground. Well, my emotions were never dealt with. My anger was never dealt with. My sense of injustice, this is wrong, wasn't dealt with.

Bre 20:10

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 20:10

I just, hid. Because I didn't like the conflict.

Bre 20:14

Yeah.

Cheryl 20:15

So yelling doesn't work. Yeah. I mean, if all you care about is quiet, okay, but there's our problem.

Bre 20:22

Right.

Cheryl 20:23

But you've got all their childhood to work this out. That's true. And this idea of. Absence of conflict being the goal, it's not very effective.

Bre 20:35

So true. Yeah. And so

Cheryl 20:37

what I wish I had done more because I wasn't a yeller, but I tried to, let's all just be nice and let's cover this up and let's just do what we need to do to be kind. Mm-hmm. And so it's just a different type of yelling.

Bre 20:50

Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl 20:50

And everything just goes underground. So instead, slowing down. Getting myself under control and being willing to sit and have the conversations.

Bre 21:00

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 21:01

And then particularly taking the opportunities to one-on-one talk about it, you know? Mm-hmm. When that happened. Mm-hmm. I, I saw you were really frustrated and giving them the words. 'cause that's another great thing to be able to have the words. Mom, I'm so frustrated.

Bre 21:17

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 21:18

I'm angry. I'm sad because sometimes you're talking about anger. Anger is kind of a one you can see real easily and it's not

Carol 21:27

not always What's going on.

Bre 21:29

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 21:29

But we've got to slow down.

Bre 21:31

Yeah.

Cheryl 21:31

And then start giving them the words, processing it. And it's, Good.

Bre 21:36

That's

Cheryl 21:36

good. Yeah. Don't know. I don't know. The good fast resolution. Mm-hmm.

Bre 21:40

Yeah.

Cheryl 21:40

Because what you're really working on is their brain, my brain, our mess, my emotions, their emotions. And so first thing is getting yourself under control, and then, hey, let's talk about it. Mm-hmm. Again. Mm-hmm. Let's come to my side. Or let's come on the same side and let's talk together about it. However, we go back to saying Butthead or stupid. If that's a value, we aren't going to do that. Mm-hmm. And so then we need to come back to talk about, so what do you actually do? Because I need to do something with the behavior while we're working on the heart.

Bre 22:14

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 22:15

Does that make sense?

Bre 22:15

Yeah. I think that's good. Um, oh, I feel like taking the time to have those conversations even though they're little, like you kind of think it doesn't matter. But I've realized it. It does. And I think like a lot of my lashing out happens when I am like trying to get something done or like running around the house. Mm-hmm. And that is not their fault. And I think like just realizing my bigger. job here is to raise them. So if I need to take a step away from the dishes for five minutes to have a conversation with them, then that's, it's okay. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 22:51

Wow. Like

Bre 22:51

I'm a very busy person, so I think just taking a moment.

Christie 22:54

Mm-hmm.

Bre 22:55

And knowing that the dishes will be there, you know, the laundry will be there. Like this is the most important thing right now. Is that's

Cheryl 23:02

so wise.

Bre 23:03

Something, well, I'm don't always do that,

Cheryl 23:08

let me say

Christie 23:08

That's so wise, but it's, it's a, it's an aim, you know, it's

23:10

something

Bre 23:10

to aim

Christie 23:11

towards.

Bre 23:11

Yeah. That's just what Cheryl said. But, but

Cheryl 23:14

we're not an arrival.

Bre 23:15

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 23:17

Right. It's a process.

Bre 23:18

It's not a Right. It is, yes. Yeah.

Cheryl 23:19

It's relationship and you're just making really good choices. Yeah. 'cause you know what? I live by myself, widow and I still have to do laundry and dishes.

Bre 23:29

Yeah. Never goes away. Yeah.

Cheryl 23:31

They don't go away.

Christie 23:32

Right.

Cheryl 23:32

But the way you're doing it. You're taking the time you're living out your values.

Christie 23:37

Mm-hmm. And I think just like we were talking about earlier, with the balance of dealing with our kids' behavior and their heart, it's the same for us. Yes. We have to get control of our own behavior. Mm-hmm. And in time our heart will begin to change. Yeah, I was just remembering, I, I was a screamer, like chronic screamer with my kids for a lot of years, and also I would get annoyed really easily. Mm-hmm. And so if they came to me for something and I was. Doing dishes or something. I just, my response was like, what, what? Just like, what do you,

Bre 24:08

yeah. How dare you

Christie 24:09

just put it down, just put it on the, you know, just the face. It wasn't, and somebody, I don't know if it was probably Cheryl, everything was, it's Cheryl, but somebody said something about, um, your kids seeing your face. You don't see your face, but your kids see your face. And so I've really started trying to work on my countenance and what they were seeing me, how I was. Responding to them. And so I started giving like a, it probably looked really creepy, but like a forced smile to them. Like when they would come and say, mom, you know, and I'm like, in the sink, I'd be like, yes. You know? And, um. It, it, it helped, you know, over the, mm-hmm. Over the course of long period of time, it helped my heart change. Yeah. Mm-hmm. To,

Bre 24:51

well, you're

Christie 24:51

like responding in a different way,

Bre 24:53

relearning kind of how to react

Christie 24:55

Yeah. In a way. Yeah. 'cause it just becomes habitual Yeah. To raise your voice. And then the other thing like. My heart, the reason I was yelling is because I discovered for myself it was when they were fighting or when something happened, whatever was causing me to yell, it felt like failure to me. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, I, I feel that, yeah, I am messing up somehow or else they wouldn't be fighting. And I

Bre 25:17

was mad

Christie 25:18

at myself.

Bre 25:18

I've lost control a little bit. I like to have things in control, so it's like, oh my gosh. What's happening? Like,

Christie 25:26

yes. And how bad is this gonna get?

Bre 25:27

Yes.

Christie 25:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so just like reminding myself, okay, they are children, they are still learning. This isn't a failure on my part. Take a breath, respond with a smile. And it's funny, my daughter worked in a situation where she was often in stressful situations with a lot of people coming to her. And she told me one day, we were talking about this evolution that I went through, and she was the oldest. So she said, I remember seeing you respond with a smile. And it was kind of like. This forced smile. And she said, I do that now when I'm under a lot of stress, but all these people are needing to ask me questions. I'm like, yeah, what's up? You know, I give them this big smile and

Madi 26:04

Hmm.

Christie 26:05

And it is a little fake until you make it, but sometimes, yeah. If you wanna make it got sometimes, well,

Madi 26:10

I used to, back in my sad days, okay, it's a rollercoaster, but, um, I would literally. Smile 'cause I knew that it helped me feel more happy. Yeah. Like I would literally just

Christie 26:22

go like this.

Madi 26:23

Right. It would like make me feel better Uhhuh to say it's like the, it's not really a science thing

Christie 26:27

physiologically. Yeah. I think you're right.

Cheryl 26:29

Well actually scientists say your body can't tell the difference between a fake smile and laughter. Yeah. But if you laugh fake. 'cause I had a bunch of sad years myself. Mm-hmm. Particularly with widowhood. Mm-hmm. And I would do the same thing. Mm-hmm. I would choose to find things, and I'm gonna laugh out loud on this.

Madi 26:50

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 26:51

What we're talking about is changing ourselves. Mm-hmm. Yeah. For sure. And the whole atomic habits. Mm-hmm. We

Carol 26:58

don't expect to do it in parenting. you two. Are experts with a camera. You didn't start out experts with a camera. Mm-hmm. And like if I had to change the lenses, I would be so awkward. Well, you two have done it 5,000 times. Mm-hmm. So you can whip it in there. But you had to start out awkward.

Christie 27:19

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cheryl 27:20

So why do we feel like we're supposed to be experts at life?

Christie 27:23

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cheryl 27:24

And parenting when we are trying to learn the ropes ourselves and become better people, to love our kids and others better.

Christie 27:32

Yeah.

Bre 27:32

Yeah.

Christie 27:33

And not to give us a, a pass for bad behavior, but when you're given that first baby. You start somewhere, right? Mm-hmm. We all start somewhere with our emotional health, our mental health, our maturity, and I just really believe there are some things that only parenting can do to us. Yes. Yeah. And so,

Madi 27:53

mm-hmm.

Christie 27:54

I, I know like having adult kids now, they remember all the phases of good, bad, and ugly versions of me, and I think they learned something. about what it means to evolve as a person. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good. Through watching me, it's just very humbling that they had to see the bad and the ugly.

Bre 28:12

cause you kind of wanna be like perfect for them in a way. But that is a good reminder, like you saying that yeah, they probably actually learn from you. Mm-hmm. In your growing.

Cheryl 28:24

Mm-hmm. They do. I know because my kids are old enough where I know it, and I mean, they come and tell me mm-hmm. That they're watching who I am because what we are is undeveloped adults. Yeah. We're becoming

Carol 28:39

developed Adults, and they're watching her as she becomes, and we're dealing with them as they become. This is what real life is

Christie 28:47

and it's only to whatever extent we're willing to be vulnerable in front of them. Yeah. And you know, we can polish it and you know, we did talk about faking until you make it. So there is that, I don't mean to discount what we said, but being vulnerable and saying, this is hard for me too. Mm-hmm. Sometimes I get angry and Yeah, it's. Human.

Madi 29:04

Well, when you talked about the fake smiling thing, you know, I definitely get annoyed too. I turn that annoyed face on the second they come around the corner. Um, but I, I, I think there's a beauty in when you can be like. Okay. I'm so sorry I had that face. Mm-hmm. I was annoyed, but I shouldn't have been. Yeah. And then go on. I, I love

Christie 29:25

you and I wanna give you

Madi 29:27

a better

Christie 29:27

response

Madi 29:28

than what I did. Did. Yes. Yeah. Just be honest. Like with what you were feeling and how you processed your emotions. Yeah. Because. They get to see that. Right?

Cheryl 29:33

Absolutely. And this is how a person processes emotions in a healthy way.

Madi 29:39

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 29:40

Not being perfect. Oh, by the way, you just never get perfect.

Christie 29:43

Definitely. And all of that, just to go full circle, fuels the conversation with, Hey, we don't wanna talk that way because we value this family member. And Yes. You know, that gives you some equity when you have to address those things. Yeah. Because you've already shown them that you're not perfect, and so they don't have to feel shame. Yeah, they're not perfect in that moment.

Madi 30:03

Which I was gonna say, I think one of the biggest reasons she does like yell that stuff out. I like when you were telling me that maybe there's something else Yeah. That she's feeling. And my first thought was like, shame. Like maybe she, she hated that she just did that thing. Yes, yes. She's hating that she's saying these things. Yes, but, and so she just wants to keep saying it. It's the only way

Christie 30:25

she knows how

Madi 30:26

to react to social. Yeah. It's only protection.

Christie 30:28

Only

Cheryl 30:28

she gets reactive and stays reactive.

Madi 30:30

Yeah.

Cheryl 30:31

I think this is really great and one of the things what we're talking about here, that

Carol 30:35

coming alongside empathy is enormous. When you look at what psychologists. And relationship experts, say, empathy is almost top of the list. Not sympathy, oh, you poor little thing, but empathy to look them in the eyes and say, oh, I know how you feel.

Christie 30:57

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 30:58

I struggle so much with being frustrated. Do you think you feel frustrated and then suddenly, man, we are on the same side of the fence together? Mm-hmm. And the thing about empathy is it makes the other person feel safe.

Christie 31:13

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 31:14

Oh, you too? is one of the biggest factors in relationships.

31:18

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 31:19

We can connect when we say, oh, you too. Like young parenting if you came in here and the two of us said, oh, we did everything right from the beginning, there wouldn't be much connection here. Yeah. But for us to say, oh, we know it's a mess. I know, I understand. We're safe together. Mm-hmm.

Christie 31:36

And there's community there moving forward us

Bre 31:39

alone

Christie 31:39

for Yeah. When it happens again, you feel like you have the strength of the person that's walked you through it before. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Cheryl 31:45

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. And I'm not alone in this. And if we do parenting to our children rather than with our children and alongside of them, they're not gonna feel the community of, oh, we're in this together. And that she feels safe to say, actually, mom, I'm just really embarrassed that I said that.

Madi 32:06

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 32:07

And then you start having this great conversation.

Madi 32:09

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cheryl 32:10

And we want to be. Transparent and vulnerable, but not inappropriately with our children.

Madi 32:15

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cheryl 32:15

We're not their best buds. Mm-hmm. And we have to know what, as a mature adult, we can't share, but that togetherness is where they feel safe and then we begin processing life all along. Mm-hmm. When it gets more complicated. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Bre 32:31

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 32:32

Okay. And we have to go because we have used our time up. I did just want to come back and say, but that all of this doesn't preclude that we don't do actions to follow up on it.

Christie 32:43

Right.

Cheryl 32:44

We don't just have conversations, so we go back to the You're stupid. Mm-hmm. All of that, y'all, you may decide, since it's a value of ours, we're not going to allow it, and so that there are consequences. So that our children can learn, my choices have consequences and the consequences have to burn appropriately for their age. Mm-hmm. It's one of the most beautiful gifts you give your children is that they feel the weight of their choices with consequences. Mm-hmm. And then when you get into the teen years and the releasing years. Consequences become your very best friend.

Madi 33:22

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 33:22

Because that becomes their teacher.

Madi 33:24

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 33:24

Can you see that? Mm-hmm.

Madi 33:25

So what is

33:26

the

Bre 33:26

consequence?

Cheryl 33:27

Well, that's a good, that's a conversation for another day. Would you like to come back and we can talk again sometime?

Bre 33:33

Yes. Let's do it. Sign me up.

Cheryl 33:34

That's great. Isn't it fun?

Bre 33:35

That's good.

Cheryl 33:37

So parents remember, hang in there. Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.

Speaker 2 33:44

No matter what stage of parenting you're in, I think one of the hardest realities is how easy it is to believe that the difficult moments are telling the whole story. The conflict, the distance, the reactions you wish you could take back. But so much of family life is built in the returning. Coming back after the moment went sideways, reaching back out, trying again, repairing, loving each other imperfectly, but consistently across the years. And I really do think those small returns shape our families more than we realize while we're living them. We'd love to hear from you anytime at contact@theparentingpodcast.com. And I hope tonight you give yourself a little more grace for the fact that relationships are not built in one moment. They're built in all the moments we keep coming back to each other

34:59

again.