The Parents We Thought We’d Be | Ep. 215

We all want to grow as parents. The question is whether we’re being shaped by wisdom—or by the pressure to become someone we think we’re supposed to be.

Transcript

Cheryl 0:00

what I kept expecting- for so much of my parenting is arrival- instead of becoming.

Speaker 2 0:09

There are parts to parenting nobody sees. The replaying after a conversation with another parent, the second-guessing, the quiet pressure to get it right. You can look perfectly calm on the outside while carrying all sorts of questions underneath. If you've ever lived there, I think you'll recognize yourself in this conversation

Cheryl 0:47

Well, audience, we have something unique and new around the recording mics today. Two friends that are in here and somebody else that you're gonna be hearing that you've

Carol 1:00

never heard On one of our parenting episodes. So we have Kyla Pace in here and Candice Newport, y'all are oldies. Y'all been in here before. Been around. Yes. Welcome, welcome. Thank

Candace 1:12

you.

Cheryl 1:13

Welcome. And we have Winnie Newport, who is our youngest contributor ever. She's three months old?

Candace 1:21

Three months old, yeah.

Cheryl 1:21

So-

Candace 1:22

Just a couple days passed

Cheryl 1:23

so those of you with ears can hear special little noises. And we will see how it goes. I'm so excited. We've never had a, a recipient focus of the parenting discussions Yes. In here with us, and, uh, she may get vocal, we just don't know.

Candace 1:43

We'll just see how it

Cheryl 1:44

goes. This is great. Yeah. Okay, you all, what would you like to talk about? There's so many things what y'all are interested in.

Kyla 1:51

Well- Well- yeah, Candice and I were just visiting, um, when you stepped out a little bit ago, Cheryl, and we were just talking about just living in the mess-

Cheryl 2:00

Mm-hmm

Kyla 2:00

the pressure of parenting, motherhood, comparison, and how we can really live at peace with all the voices around us.

Candace 2:09

Oh, that's all? That's all. Yeah. There, there's a lot there. Yeah, just trying to find that m- maybe not balance, but just the ability to have proper boundaries in your life to focus on-

Cheryl 2:22

Oh

Candace 2:23

on the, on the way you want to have value in your life- Oh rather than everybody else's voices.

Cheryl 2:28

Totally. You know, I talk to a lot of people, and I would say if there's any one thread that unites almost all the parenting conversation I have, it's this subject.

Candace 2:43

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 2:43

Y'all, I completely identify. Mm-hmm. I hear what you're saying. So talk to me a little about how this presents in your life.

Candace 2:51

Well, I think we're very similar in this regard, Kyla and I- Mm-hmm as just the ability to sit in conversation with people and hear, um, maybe good advice from all different angles and act like- Wow there's no, no... It's nothing on your shoulders, you know? Like, everything's fine, peaceful. Like, yeah,, it's all gonna work out, but then going home and processing in your mind and hearing all that, that replay back- Mm-hmm and thinking Oh, I'm not doing enough. Oh, I should be doing it this way. Oh, that way was actually really a lot better than my... You know, and just that internal voice and just trying to figure out where your, um, where your priority is in all of that.

Kyla 3:31

Mm-hmm. Oh. And- Yeah, I've kind of perfected looking peaceful on the outside, and the- Mm-hmm inside being chaotic with choices, noises, opinions, worry, fear, and nobody knows it, but I don't want that in my life. Like, how do I get past that?

Cheryl 3:51

Oh, so I'm gonna give you the easy answer. the presentation, what you're just saying, Kyla, the presentation is different from other people. Because some people sometimes show this anxiety, or they come across very confident. Uh, you know, "Well, we've got this figured out, and we're gonna do it this way, and we have their education figured out." Mm-hmm. "And we know how to get them to sleep. We know what to do. We've got all the little dots and tittles all figured out." And then when they really open, they go, "Well, actually I'm afraid." Like- I'm a- I'm afraid that I'll have regrets.

Candace 4:29

Mm.

Cheryl 4:29

Or I'm afraid we're overlooking something.

Candace 4:32

Mm.

Cheryl 4:32

And I don't wanna burst their bubble, but there is no perfect parenting.

Candace 4:36

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 4:37

Like, we, we always are saying that phantom-

Candace 4:40

Mm-hmm

Cheryl 4:41

perfect mom out there somewhere, and see, you all are victims of the information age.

Kyla 4:46

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 4:47

I mean-

Kyla 4:47

Yeah, it's heavy

Cheryl 4:48

ugh, I mean, how many voices do you need? I didn't have that many voices because it was just more limited, you know? Mm-hmm. But I had the same struggles. So yours just have more voices, but they're all the same

Carol 5:03

message. Mm-hmm.

Kyla 5:04

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 5:04

If you dig deep enough, you're gonna figure it out, and y'all will nail it. I mean, I can remember early in parenting thinking, if we just discussed it enough- Right if we figured out, if we look what the scientists say about the way their brains work and how our bodies work and, because I'm a Christian, looking at what scripture says and listening to good voices, oh yeah, we'll figure it out.

Kyla 5:31

I'm remembering, Cheryl, does this play into, like, the, the episodes previously about apple nailing? Like, I'm remembering that right now.

Cheryl 5:38

Okay. Kyla, talk about... 'Cause this is from, um, one of my very favorite teachers, Paul Tripp. Mm-hmm. And, and he talks about apple nailing as one of the big lies of what we try to do in parenting.

Kyla 5:50

Well,. can you recap it? Because I'm not gonna be very eloquent- in giving a summary of that. Yeah. But I have a lot of thoughts on it, 'cause it's very helpful.

Cheryl 6:00

Okay. S- so it's an illustration he uses saying, in this neighborhood, let's say they all had apple trees, and every year they would have a big contest of who had the best apples. And he had crummy little scrawny apples, and what he did is he went out and bought beautiful apples and nailed them to the tree. And so for the presentation, it looked wonderful. Mm. And so he wins the prize for these beautiful apples, but it's all a sham. It's just presentation- Mm to the others.

Candace 6:32

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 6:33

And so that was what I think is part of the problem is, are we working on the presentation- Mm of our parenting?

Kyla 6:42

Right.

Cheryl 6:43

Or are we actually walking along with our children- Mm-hmm and trying to love them well?

Candace 6:47

Yeah.

Cheryl 6:48

That's one of the big lies.

Kyla 6:49

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 6:50

Not that it's despairing, but it's just-

Carol 6:55

Parenting is sort Of a living organism- Mm because it's relationships. Yeah. If it weren't relationships, it could be run more like AI or your car. You just change the oil enough, and you do all the right things- Mm. Mm and your car's gonna run better.

Candace 7:12

Right.

Cheryl 7:13

And these are human beings, and they have wills and personalities, and both of you- And take- have four children. Yeah. They're all individuals. Yes. And all of this, plus our own selves. Mm. We're becoming, and all of that just makes for this living organism of

Carol 7:33

challenge- Constantly changing.

Candace 7:35

Mm-hmm

Kyla 7:35

mm-hmm. Yeah. And I'm just thinking because I have three teenagers and one 10-year-old, I mean, just the different personalities, the maturity, the, the growing up, the puberty, the hormones, the opinions, the... I mean, it's just so many moving parts.

Cheryl 7:54

Exactly-

Kyla 7:54

And how do I myself have peace within the mess?

Cheryl 8:01

Huh.

Kyla 8:01

Yeah.

Cheryl 8:01

Hmm. Yeah. it's true. If they all had the same personality, and they all just stayed like eight years old-

Kyla 8:11

Mm-hmm.

Candace 8:11

Maybe

Cheryl 8:12

and there was no change. But I'm just saying, if they all had these- Yeah same- You could

Kyla 8:16

maybe figure it out if things stayed the

Cheryl 8:17

same maybe if we could, let's all just stay in this- Right one Again, that's your car-

Candace 8:22

Yeah

Cheryl 8:23

or your phone. Mm-hmm. Phone doesn't work, I just go down to the Apple Store and they fix it, and our children don't need fixing.

Candace 8:31

No.

Cheryl 8:32

You all don't need fixing.

Candace 8:34

Well, and that's one of... I mean, I know Ryan and I, one of our favorite things to talk to the kids about is our growth. Like, when we make mistakes or when- Yeah we're going through stuff that's really hard, embracing it because we want to become a better version of ourself. We want to become more like what we value, which, you know,, is our faith. And so when we're teaching our kids that, and then we're expecting them to be- under this other- Mm-hmm scope, you know, that's just not, that's not realistic. It's not reasonable. And so really do, like, trusting and allowing that their personalities and You know, you have to find wisdom somehow that can manage and be available for all these different personalities in your family. Sure. And you're never gonna arrive, and finding a place to be okay in that. Mm-hmm. Like, finding space to just- Yeah take a breath- Yeah and relax, like you told me on the way.

Carol 9:33

because we're all coming here to record, and Candice texted said, "I'm sorry I'm running a little bit late." I said, "No problem. Take your time. Just relax," and she just laughed out loud because she's in traffic and the baby's screaming in the backseat. Oh,

Candace 9:49

okay. It's the most relaxing place to be.

Cheryl 9:52

Um, but here's what I'm hearing and what I know. That's the thing. It's a lot of the voices and what I kept expecting- Mm-hmm for so much of my parenting is arrival-

Candace 10:05

Mm

Cheryl 10:06

instead of becoming.

Candace 10:07

Mm-hmm.

Kyla 10:08

Oh, exactly.

Candace 10:09

Yeah. Yeah. It's never, there's never a finish line when you look at it that way.

Carol 10:13

And see, with the influencers well, the thing is, is AI, let's say whatever you're looking at on your phone that you scroll or whatever AI is pulling you into, all of these voices, If they really said, "Relax. Take your time. Become. Let your children become," all of these people might go, "That's too hard."

Candace 10:35

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 10:36

I want the answer."

Kyla 10:37

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 10:37

Mm-hmm. You know? Our hearts want that fix.

Kyla 10:40

I've always wanted that. You have. I mean, even as a kid, like, if only I could drive, and if only I could graduate and get out of- Mm. Be on my own. Yes. If only I could get married. The next

Candace 10:50

thing.

Kyla 10:50

If only I could have a baby. If only I could get the awesome job that I want. Like, it's always the next thing.

Cheryl 10:57

It sure is. Right. And I think that may be just in us as human beings. Mm-hmm. But I also think our Western school system sets us up for it.

Kyla 11:06

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cheryl 11:07

Because if you succeed at all, you go, "Oh, it's a game."

Candace 11:11

Yep.

Cheryl 11:12

Oh, if I just study harder," if you have the capacity, "if I just study harder, if I please the teacher- Mm if I turn in the papers, if I get the grade, ha ha ha. Yes, I arrive." Right. I score. I get the points. I get the scholarship," or whatever it is to succeed.

Carol 11:30

So I conclude, Oh, life, if I just do all the things- Mm-hmm I'll arrive." And if you look at most videos, podcasts, TikTok, books, even really well-written ones. do these things and you'll arrive, it's still... I remember a parenting book that I thought, "Oh, this is so good," and it was talking about in parenting that we need to have so much grace for one another and our failures and loving them through it and how to walk with them. It was a book about bringing grace into your family, and I enjoyed the first half of it. It was a breath of life, going, Yes! this is what I want And the second half of the book is now, get your spreadsheet- And

Candace 12:21

do X, Y, and

Cheryl 12:22

Z and, and here are the specific ways-

Candace 12:24

Which will never work. It will never work, uh, for anybody because every, uh, the four, three of us sitting here with all of the kids that we've had, not one set of combination is the same.

Cheryl 12:35

No.

Candace 12:35

It, and it never will be. I mean, that's the beauty of life, right? Yes. That's the beauty in it all. Yes. And-

Cheryl 12:41

If you can see it that way- Yes that's where the freedom comes, not from shrugging it off and not caring, but this- Embracing becoming.

Candace 12:49

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 12:50

Yes. Mm-hmm. Talk about embracing it. Okay. You told your ages of your children. Mm-hmm.

Carol 12:55

Candice

Cheryl 12:55

Remind us again the ages of your children.

Candace 12:58

So I have four girls, all girls, bless Ryan.

Cheryl 13:03

Okay, so speak into that with what we're talking about, your struggles in this.

Candace 13:08

Well, I mean, so if I take my family and I try to fit it into a box of another family, it's never gonna work because I have an Eleanor who's eight, and she has a certain personality, and then I have a Emma who's seven, and she is quite a character, and then we have Claire, who's our special five-year-old, little angel., And then a three-month-old. Claire, Has Down syndrome, and she brings about a whole nother set of- Mm parenting, you know, questioning and wisdom that you're seeking, and, um, she basically flipped our thought process on even raising... I mean, the beautiful thing about Claire is she has opened our eyes to see futures for our other kids in a way that we never would have seen it had it not been for her because we thought, "Oh yeah, we raise these kids, they go to school, they're gonna go to college, they're gonna do X." Right. And then all of a sudden Claire comes along and we're like, "Wait, why are we putting everybody in a box?"

Cheryl 14:05

Wow.

Candace 14:06

You know? Like, she opened our eyes like, oh, now the grades aren't what we're worried about. Mm-hmm. We're, we're worried about what, what's going on in their heart and how they're viewing the peers around them because this is Claire. Wow. You know, she's just as valuable as everybody else, and so just the way we've parented has completely flipped on its head just from one, one kid in our family. Wow. And you take that to other families who have other kids with disabilities or neurodiversity or whatever, and everybody just has something else they're working with, so- I just feel like embracing what you have been given. There is a reason you are the mom to these children, and being able to- Mm-hmm love yourself in that and offer yourself grace in that, and just be okay with some days it's hard- Mm and, uh, it's messy today.

Cheryl 14:56

You know, what I'm hearing is so much freedom. Mm. You know? I love this because- There would be voices that would not see Claire that way.

Candace 15:06

Mm. There's a s- still, there are a lot of

Cheryl 15:07

voices. That Claire was the liberator in your family.

Candace 15:12

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 15:13

And I can say that. I know her. Mm-hmm. She is a bundle of joy. Mm-hmm.

Kyla 15:18

Mm.

Cheryl 15:19

And the wonderful thing is, she helps all of us kick those walls down-

Candace 15:25

Mm-hmm

Cheryl 15:25

where we put ev- every, like you say- Everything everything in a

Carol 15:28

box!

Candace 15:28

Mm-hmm.

Kyla 15:29

That's amazing.

Cheryl 15:30

Isn't it fantastic? Yeah. And the problem is, when you have those that are kind of working along in the boxes, I, as a parent, do the wrong thing

Carol 15:42

if I say, "Now, let's prescribe your box. What does your box look like?" Mm-hmm. Instead of saying, "You are created as this wonderful, valuable individual." Mm-hmm. And then we go back to that verb, becoming.

Candace 15:58

Yep.

Cheryl 15:58

Who are you becoming? How can we, alongside each other, become more and more who we're created to be? Mm-hmm.

Candace 16:07

Yeah, and that, and that's our fight for Claire. You know, right now we're, we're fighting for her to be in, in a classroom full of peers who are, um, not challenged in the way she is, but seeing value in what that brings to peers that are different than her. Yes. Not only does she learn things that are necessary for her to learn, but what we've seen in other areas, like w- at church or in our groups with our friends, they're all of a sudden questioning, "What, what do I value?" You know- Yeah what is, what is the most important thing?

Cheryl 16:41

Mm-hmm.

Candace 16:42

And, you know, I can see it in the teachers' faces when we're asking, like, "She should be included in that. Like, she can do that," and they're thinking, "Well, how are, how are they gonna cut w- with scissors so neatl-" You know, like all of a sudden it becomes messy, and it's like, it's, that's okay. It doesn't matter. It's okay if she doesn't, it's okay if her- Yeah butterfly isn't cut perfectly. That's not what she's about. Mm. She wants to brighten up the kid next to her's life by telling her that her butterfly's beautiful, you know? Mm. 'Cause Claire sees beauty in everything, and she wants to tell everybody things are beautiful. And we've taught her some affirmations that she goes around telling everybody. Mm-hmm. You know, "I'm strong, I'm brave, I'm beautiful, I'm smart, and I'm kind." Those are the five. Wow. And she does the signs for them, and she tells herself every morning, and sometimes she'll just tell me. Like, in the middle of the day, we're running around, we're stressed, and then she just stops and she brings those words to mind, and I'm like, "Yes, we just needed to stop for a minute and remember the beauty in this moment."

Cheryl 17:44

Oh, wow Claire the clarifier.

Candace 17:46

Yeah

Cheryl 17:46

what a gift. Mm-hmm. And see, what, what I'm hearing from you is- Mm in the becoming and all this mess- Mm-hmm we don't want to be ignorant- Mm and not hear good voices and learn.

Candace 17:58

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 17:59

I mean, look how much you've had to learn. Mm. But What are the qualities that we have to bring to the table in the mess so that we can have this balanced openness that is not lackadaisical- Hmm or lazy, or,

Carol 18:16

It doesn't matter. Oh, you can just be whoever you wanna be."

Candace 18:20

Yeah. Ju- just be you. That, that-

Cheryl 18:21

Yes, just be you you

Candace 18:22

do you.

Cheryl 18:28

That, that's not good parenting. No. And helicopter boxes isn't good parenting. So what are the qualities that we need as parents to bring to this to allow this beautiful growth of individuals-

Kyla 18:39

Mm-hmm

Cheryl 18:41

yet parent well?

Kyla 18:45

Well, the first thing that comes to my mind in the phase that I'm in is I just really need to love myself.

Cheryl 18:51

Hmm. Well, now talk about that because that would be- Mm-hmm love yourself, love yourself. Put yourself first. You know?

Kyla 18:56

Yeah. I just think it means- Just a quiet confidence and just not having a critical voice of myself, but being patient with myself and giving myself- Mm-hmm the grace that I want my family to have internally, because it flows out, I think.

Cheryl 19:15

Of course it does. And what you're talking about, the kind of love that values the other person.

Kyla 19:20

Right.

Cheryl 19:21

Okay, like we're talking about valuing- Mm-hmm Claire.

Candace 19:24

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 19:25

That you value Kyla.

Kyla 19:27

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 19:28

Because that's who you are, and you're right. 'Cause I think this is really wonderful, not, "Oh, I love myself," but

Carol 19:36

to value yourself?

Kyla 19:38

Mm-hmm

Cheryl 19:38

because that's the role model. Mm-hmm. You're talking about role modeling-

Kyla 19:41

Yeah

Cheryl 19:41

for your children. Mm-hmm. What a role model, 'cause I struggled with that. Mm-hmm. struggled particularly in my widowed parenting, thinking sacrifice, giving, pouring out was what I had to do. Now, it's true, when you're a single parent, and particularly with the struggles and the trauma that came with losing Bill to cancer, all of that, it required a lot of me, but not the erasure of myself. Mm. And I kind of thought-

Kyla 20:19

Yeah

Cheryl 20:19

I did not value myself, and I almost wore myself out.

Kyla 20:23

Yeah.

Cheryl 20:23

How have you been able to grow in that?

Carol 20:26

to value yourself?

Candace 20:27

Well, and I think you see that a lot in... I mean, I've, I've had a lot of friends, you know, we had children later in life, so a lot of my friends are more advanced in their parenting years than I am, and seeing them come to the end of h- kids at home- Mm-hmm and this big struggle with who am I? Yeah. And that is part of that, Cheryl, what you're talking about, erasing yourself and finding a way to find value in who Candice is and who Kyla is in the midst of parenting. And so I think part of that is, is learning how to have confidence in who you are. Um, I was thinking, like, self-reflection was the word that came to mind when you asked that question. Processing, hearing. Yeah, finding out what is the most value. So I feel like we were talking about that, all the voices.

Cheryl 21:18

Okay.

Candace 21:19

And needing to bring that Into embracing the chaos and the- Yeah.

Kyla 21:24

Yeah. I think just with the idea of loving myself, I look back in my, my parenting journey that is still happening- and I have always felt like I need to maybe erase myself to give more, and I'm always at the end of my rope. But I think there's a way to go through that and realize, this is healthy. I can love myself through it, and it's part of the plan.

Cheryl 21:49

And we've got to wrap up. but this is it. There's no you know, there isn't a one, two, three ending to this. Go, "Oh, by the way- Mm this is the one thing you do," but I think this is a key.

Candace 22:00

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 22:00

I think what we're talking about is there are a lot of voices out there.

Kyla 22:05

Yeah. Self voices and external voices, both.

Cheryl 22:08

Yeah. Both. And my internal voice

Carol 22:10

was A lot louder for me than the external voices. And what I used to do a lot is I would choose the external voices that reinforce my internal voice. Mm.

Candace 22:21

That in good or bad way?

Cheryl 22:24

A lot of it was the people-pleasing. And so if I had a bad internal voice about who I was, what you're talking about- Right not loving myself well, and I would hear an external voice and go, "Oh, that reinforced- Mm the lie that I was- Mm-hmm believing about myself."

Kyla 22:39

Yeah.

Candace 22:39

Well, um, just hearing from, from my perspective as a parent I don't have a lot of friends who are in the same exact, um, stage of parenting as me- Yeah, yeah which can be isolating and kind of freeing all at the same time. But I hear these, um, older parents who are, are not necessarily older, but just, uh, further- For long along in parenting, um, just talk about how they don't know where to go now. Like, who are they? What do they do? Mm. Um, what is their value? what do they truly value? What are the things they like? You know, they're trying to figure out parenting in this new- newness of who they are. Or who they aren't anymore.

Cheryl 23:20

You see, that's becoming, Okay. We, we want to be reflective. Mm-hmm. But I think what that did though is put its finger on what I think is a core issue in all of this, is identity.

Candace 23:34

Mm-hmm.

Kyla 23:35

Mm. Yeah.

Candace 23:36

Yeah.

Cheryl 23:36

For sure. Yeah.

Candace 23:38

Well, I was just gonna say, I feel like that is something I, I feel like I'm fighting for- Because I've heard all these women talk about this. Yes. That I'm fighting for. Okay, I mean, even just last night, I was processing with Ryan, and just, I want an example for my girls to see. These are things that are, are valuable and who their mom is, and so trying to find balance

Cheryl 23:59

Wow. And- Okay. Can y'all come back in and let's process about identity?

Kyla 24:05

Yeah.

Cheryl 24:05

Yeah. Sure. And figuring that out. Yeah. Thank y'all so much. Yeah. This was fun. Great being here. Thanks, Cheryl. Always. Oh. Hey, parents, remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it's worth it

Speaker 3 24:20

We'd love to hear from you. You can always connect with us through our website, social media, or at contact@theparentingpodcast.com. Maybe the goal was never arrival. Maybe it was having the courage to keep becoming.