Parenting for an Audience | Ep. 217

Most parents know the feeling. A look across the room. A raised eyebrow. A comment that li gers longer than it should. This conversation explores the pressure of parenting under the weight of other people’s opinions.

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Cheryl 0:00

That is my- worst parenting, when I parent for that audience, seen or unseen.

Speaker 3 0:07

Sometimes all it takes is another person walking into the room. One minute you're parenting, the next you're aware of the audience, the look, the silence, the second guessing. Most parents know that feeling. The parenting didn't change, something else did.

Cheryl 0:40

Well, we have Joanne Crawford back here with us- Hello in the recording studio

Joanne 0:44

again. Welcome, welcome. Thank you for having me again.

Cheryl 0:47

Love having

Carol 0:47

you. Okay, so Joanne, you texted me a question, and I thought, "Oh, that's so good." And I wanted to share it with our audience, and then Let's explore it.

Joanne 0:58

Okay, sounds great. Yeah, so-

Cheryl 1:00

It was a friend and you were dealing with it?

Joanne 1:02

Yeah. I was talking with a friend recently, and she was just sharing the, the pressure she was feeling, from a very critical family member. Ah. So she has younger children than I do. Hers are, you know, early elementary.

Cheryl 1:18

Yeah.

Joanne 1:18

And, she just feels a lot of stress and anxiety whenever she has to handle a situation with her kids in front of this family member, just feeling like they're always constantly judging her- Hmm no matter what they do. Hmm. And, uh, s- you know, when thinking about what comments they might be making later. Hmm. And so, um, we were kinda joking around, like, it feels like parenting under a microscope. Hmm. And, and so- Sure does yeah, so how do we get over that? Yeah. What do we do? It's hard.

Cheryl 1:48

Oh, wow. I don't know anybody that I know that hasn't felt that.

Christie 1:52

Right. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 1:53

I know I've felt it in my life. It really is hard because the problem is, and Christie, you've said so many times, we don't parent in a vacuum.

Christie 2:02

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 2:03

So that would be so nice if I could just separate, like, take all the weeds out and all the things that don't actually have to do with parenting

Christie 2:14

Right

Cheryl 2:14

and just parent my children. Right. It would be so much easier.

Christie 2:17

Yes, and, and our kids' behavior doesn't change- Hmm depending on the setting that we find ourselves. Yeah. And I know when my girls were young, we'd have some kind of thing that, that was going on in their behavior that would come up. Yeah. And I'd think, "Oh, please don't let this happen here." Yes. You know, let's just make it through these two hours without having that issue, and, and it just, sometimes it, it happens that way, I don't wanna say wrong person, but the person that you'd rather not deal with the hard issues in front of is present.

Cheryl 2:45

And what this is saying is, oh, by the way, the problem's not the kids.

Christie 2:50

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 2:51

For sure, I remember way back when mine were little, somebody said, that they felt the litmus test of maturity in parenting is, like, when you take your children to the library, and they're running around and pulling books off shelf and yelling and all of this, and somebody you really care about walks in the library at that moment-

Christie 3:13

Hmm

Cheryl 3:14

if you're not embarrassed-

Christie 3:15

Oh. Mm-hmm. Yeah

Cheryl 3:16

and you just parent your children because they need to be parented- Mm-hmm

Carol 3:20

ignoring the audience. whoa, that is true maturity in parenting.

Christie 3:26

Right, and the unfortunate thing is we usually don't get there until we're out of that phase of parenting.

Cheryl 3:33

Yeah. That's what I was kinda thinking. Oh, it really is hard, and there are so many layers to this, Joanne. Um, can I ask, is- Uh, your friend a people pleaser?

Joanne 3:44

Yes.

Cheryl 3:45

Oh, okay. That's my mind. 'Cause that sounds very familiar to me. Yeah. Uh-huh. 'Cause as a, what do I say now? Victoriously overcoming people pleaser.

Christie 3:53

Okay.

Joanne 3:54

I

Christie 3:54

like that.

Cheryl 3:55

Um, that just adds so many layers because what non-people pleasers don't understand is we don't just actually

Carol 4:05

try to please What's really going on in front of us. We're working towards what we think they think.

Joanne 4:14

Mm.

Cheryl 4:14

So is it a close family relative like a father or mother or something like that?

Joanne 4:18

Yes.

Cheryl 4:19

Okay. So let's just say it's her father. All right? So the problem is she can't just walk away from it Did they live in close proximity and everything else? Yes. Very close. Okay. Uh-huh. So it just ramps it up because then, you know, the problem is he might not be thinking anything.

Christie 4:40

Right. True.

Cheryl 4:41

But because of the criticism in the past or the snarky terms or the whatever, I don't, I, I don't know how he actually handles it. Mm. I don't know if he's confrontational or if it comes by passive-aggressive.

Christie 4:54

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 4:54

But once you get a feel for that, then you're thinking, "Oh, what was that look?" Right. "Oh, no, what have I done now? Oh, oh, oh." And I just do my worst parenting. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is my- Yeah worst parenting, when I parent for that audience, seen or unseen.

Christie 5:09

Right. Well, especially the fact that we come into parenting, I mean, I know very few people that just walk into parenting like, "Oh, I'm gonna kill this." You know, this, "I'm just gonna be..." We walk into it with our own insecurities. Mm. So then to have someone affirm that insecurity with their own criticism, it's magnifying the what do I do with the situation.

Joanne 5:32

Yes.

Cheryl 5:33

And problem is it's just- exacerbating. It's getting worse. It is accelerating because of social media and our lives lived around screens and all of that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I read somewhere it said, "Parenting has

Carol 5:48

become a public sport."

Christie 5:50

Oh. Oh. That, yeah, that is accurate.

Cheryl 5:52

Cause if you think about, let's go back to 1800s or something, you had a very small community. Mm-hmm.

Christie 5:59

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 6:00

You had some family, maybe in-laws or a few... I mean, it was just much tinier, and that was the whole world, and then everybody was very busy-

Christie 6:11

Right

Cheryl 6:11

'cause they had to do a lot. They didn't have time to sit around and look and point fingers and do all this. And now-

Christie 6:18

You, you mean they were busy doing actual work? Yeah.

Cheryl 6:22

They were really busy. Now we're just busy

Christie 6:23

scrolling and comparing lives. Yes.

Cheryl 6:26

and now if you think of an arena mentality, there you are trying to parent your children, Your friend loves her children.

Joanne 6:35

Yeah.

Cheryl 6:35

And she's trying to do a good job.

Joanne 6:37

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 6:38

And there she is dead center of that arena all by herself on the 50-yard line, and all those stadium seats of 30,000 or how many ever are in stadium seats- Mm-hmm they're all around, and so she's hearing this voice over here, and then there's this

Carol 6:55

influencer says that, then the trendiest book says this, and then her friends say that, and then she has her family going, "Aha, well, we didn't do that when we were little." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Whatever it is, and you've got all of that audience critiquing, whether they actually are actively, or not, and there you are on the field trying to parent your children.

Joanne 7:17

Mm-hmm. That's right, yeah. And then Christie, you said the word, I think is the, the root of all this is insecurity.

Cheryl 7:24

Yeah. Ugh.

Joanne 7:24

And just the fear of getting it wrong of- Mm-hmm you know, we love these people that we love so much, these children we're trying to raise, and w- we're gonna mess it up somehow. And then, like you said, Cheryl, then someone, you know, imagined or really does say something, and it just can just rock your world.

Christie 7:41

Right. You know? Especially if it's a, a family member that you respect and want their- Mm-hmm approval.

Joanne 7:47

Yeah.

Christie 7:48

You know? That, that makes it even harder, and, and it's tricky too because there is wisdom to learn from our, you know, parents and older generations that have already raised kids to the complete, end. Mm-hmm. Um, but they also haven't raised children in the times that we're raising children in. Right. That's true. So there's a, a tug of war there of like, yes, there's wisdom I wanna glean from you, but also there's some timely and culturally relevant things that I know to be true that you haven't experienced.

Cheryl 8:21

Well, and I would go much bigger than that. They aren't raising her children.

Christie 8:27

Right, right. Yes.

Cheryl 8:29

Yeah. See? It's true. And I would like to sit him down and talk about how he needs to- shut his mouth and encourage his daughter or- Right. The problem is she's trying to figure it out.

Christie 8:43

Yeah.

Cheryl 8:43

And she's- Yeah laying her life down for her children. She doesn't need to be cut off the knees by someone who's snarky comment. Do you know if it's actively aggressive, or is it more, uh, passive aggressive?

Joanne 8:57

Uh, it's more passive aggressive. Yeah. And a- again, and not even words, you know, just little, like, facial expressions or, you know. Mm-hmm, of

Christie 9:04

disapproval.

Joanne 9:05

Right. Yeah. And you know, what you said is so true, though. Uh, kids are so different. Every-

Christie 9:10

Yes

Joanne 9:10

personality, temperaments, there's so many variables there. And so, um, you know, maybe someone did raise their kids, but their kids are completely different- Yes than your kids or-

Christie 9:21

Right

Joanne 9:21

or whatever.

Christie 9:22

And that goes for peers, too. Yeah. I know that my temptation was to look at the mom next to me and, and see how they were handling it, and our kids may be acting out in the same ways, but the same approaches don't necessarily work for each child.

Joanne 9:37

Yeah, yeah.

Cheryl 9:37

You know, and again, this is why we do TPP the way we do. Parents don't need to be shoved into the ring. They need a life preserver. They- Mm-hmm. They need friends cheering them on. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. audience up there in the stadium, they should be cheering and chanting, "MVP, MVP" Yeah. Which is most valuable parent. Oh, there you go. Because, so if you're a- Uh-huh basketball fan or whatever, they chant- Yeah. Yeah when they come to the line. That's what we need. Yes. Right. Instead of this, uh, undermining-

Joanne 10:13

Mm-hmm

Cheryl 10:14

confidence. And, and you said a while ago, Christie, you don't know anybody that didn't come in secure. Well, if they do, those of us who've been around know it's a little foolish to be overly secure. Right. Because you've never lived this life before. Right.

Christie 10:29

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 10:29

You know? Not only have you never had a first baby-

Christie 10:32

Mm-hmm

Cheryl 10:32

you haven't had multiple children, you haven't had a 10-year-old, you haven't had a releasing child and someone that's sick and, I mean, all of it. Yeah. All of life.

Christie 10:42

I heard someone say once, "A prideful parent hasn't been a parent long enough." That's

Joanne 10:46

right.

Christie 10:46

Yeah. Yeah. I was with some young parents recently, and they were needing to correct their toddler, and I could feel their awareness of my existence in the room- Mm-hmm if that makes sense. Yeah. Of course. And so I instantly just started, like, praising them- Yeah and, and their actions because I didn't want them to feel that tension, whether or not I've been guilty of being critical in the past and that's what they're picking up on, or maybe they've experienced that elsewhere. Yes. But it's, it's natural to feel that microscope feeling- Yeah when you have to do something you've, maybe addressing something you've not addressed before- Mm or just the whole parenting thing is new.

Cheryl 11:25

Yeah. And, and then particularly if you choose a different route than- Mm-hmm what the other generations- Mm-hmm or other people around you. And Bill and I did that. There were some radically different things that we did in our parenting, in our life, that wasn't done by previous generations or even siblings.

Christie 11:43

Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl 11:43

And I know the difference because from some, directions I got such encouragement. I, I had a cheerleader. I had cheerleaders out there. Even though maybe, they didn't understand what we were doing or maybe they didn't agree with it, um,, I know what that felt like. I felt so empowered and safe. Mm-hmm. And then there were other directions that I got criticism, whether it was passive-aggressive or particularly the snarky comments or, "Well, y'all didn't do that and you turned out okay," those kind of things- Right that so undermine.

Christie 12:21

Yeah.

Cheryl 12:22

Underminded? Do you say underminded? What's the verb?

Christie 12:25

Undermined?

Cheryl 12:26

Undermined. Undermined. There we go. Yeah. grammar podcast.

Christie 12:31

That'll be our next podcast.

Joanne 12:32

I,

Cheryl 12:32

But it undermined it- Yeah

Carol 12:35

my security and what it did is I built walls.

Christie 12:38

Yeah. Wow.

Cheryl 12:39

Because I didn't wanna hear it. I knew the criticism would be there, so I didn't open up. I didn't want to be seen. I didn't bring them into anything.

Christie 12:49

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 12:50

And so I know, and I, I wish I could again speak to that father, mother, the family, to go, "Let me tell you what you're doing is you are pushing the people you love away- Right instead of helping them."

Christie 13:02

Right. Right. Yeah, and I think this conversation is just as much a, um, a word for grandparents and older parents- Mm-hmm uh, to hear, too, of be that cheerleader and, and have those positive things to say and, you know, look for the good, in the younger parents around you. We talked recently with the young moms that came in- Yeah about interacting with grandparents, and I remember sharing with her, like, now as a grandparent, the humility that it takes- Right to say, "Okay, you're doing things different than I did, and they're actually better." Yeah. And I, I wanna celebrate that- Wow not feel condemned by it- Wow and say, "Well, you turned out just fine," you know?

Joanne 13:41

What a gift you're giving to your family, and then that one lady that you spoke, and, you know, the words of encouragement and building up- Yes her confidence. Um, you know, and there's no shortage of, uh, opinions out there. Everyone has their own ideas, and many people are not shy about sharing those opinions. Yes. Yeah. And so, um, I wanna share with you the first encounter that my husband and I had with the differing opinions happened before we even left the hospital- Oh, my

Christie 14:11

goodness

Joanne 14:11

with our firstborn. Wow. And so, uh, I was expecting my firstborn baby. We didn't know what we were having at the time, and so, like, you know, excited new parents, we took all of the classes, and the- Oh you know, we learned how to swaddle the baby and how to bathe him properly and, you know, all the things, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. We were just so excited. And, uh, when we were in the hospital, I had to stay there for several days. I had a C-section.

Christie 14:35

Okay.

Joanne 14:35

And with every nurse change, every shift change we would get a difference of opinion. Oh my goodness. And so, so one nurse would come in and go, "Oh, no, no, no, that's not how you swaddle the baby." Oh. And then, so we're like, "Okay, we're readjusting," and, you know, what do we know, right? Yeah. We're new parents, so we would alter what we're doing. And then the next nurse would come in, "Oh, no, what are you doing here?" You know? Wow. And then she would tell us something completely different, and my husband and I would just look at each other with wide eyes like, "What is happening?" And so we realized really quickly- Yeah that we were gonna have to decide what we were gonna do, what was gonna be our standard or- That's so good whatever going forward. Um, but yeah, so just any advice on how a new parent can do that? We kind of fumbled our way through that. I wish I would have had someone teaching me or speaking- Mm into that- Mm-hmm um, so we didn't have to learn by mistakes. Oh,

Christie 15:29

man, you guys really got a crash course in that lesson. We did, yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl 15:33

That's the thing when, Christie, you were saying, uh, I don't know anybody came confident- Mm 'cause like I kind of thought I was well-trained because I had been the oldest sister. I took really good care and helped with my little

Carol 15:48

sisters, And I changed a lot of diapers, and bottled and took care and I babysat. That was how I earned my money in high school. And then I became a teacher, so in college I had taken all kinds of child development classes and, uh, child's growing brain, all those things. So I knew a lot. Right. And I had a lot of experience. So I thought I was gonna be confident until it was actually my daughter.

Christie 16:14

Yeah.

Cheryl 16:15

Yeah. So much different. And it's just completely different to hold your own baby versus all those other babies I held all those times- Mm-hmm for other people, and all the decisions, and it so undermined my confidence or- Mm-hmm Mm in what I thought I knew.

Joanne 16:31

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cheryl 16:31

So it is really hard. And then I'm, "So what do I do?" And now, now we have too much information. Right. We have all the influencers, and you have TikTok giving you 10 new ways of doing it, and books and podcasts. So, um, it was just so completely different from what I thought I was equipped with. And then now we cared so much about who she was. So I loved my little sisters. I cared about the children I babysat or I taught, but I would give my

Carol 17:04

life For this person.

Joanne 17:06

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 17:06

Mm. And so suddenly it's so much more important than, uh, anything I could have imagined before. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so it was scary,. There was a lot of fear to it, and before I would've said I wasn't a very fearful person. But looking at that tiny little baby that couldn't do anything, the two of us just really were overwhelmed with what we didn't know. Mm-hmm.

Christie 17:32

Mm-hmm. And when you say scary, the fear part, I think- Oh. is the thing that really paralyzes us. Because, like, in your example, Joanne, swaddling the baby- there's some room for error there, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what's the worst that's gonna happen? They're gonna cry, and you're gonna be like, "Oh, he doesn't like it that way." Yeah. "I'll re-wrap him the other way."

Joanne 17:50

Right.

Christie 17:51

Um, but I feel like increasingly so, we're led to think everything has this detrimental end. Yes. You know? Like, everything could just be make or break.

Cheryl 18:03

The weight.

Christie 18:04

Yes. Mm-hmm. In parenting, it's like, if you, you know, don't do this, they'll choke. If you do this- Yeah they, they'll, you know, whatever the horror stories are that are out there. And you hear one story of one child one time- Yes and now, all of a sudden, you're watching your every move on which zippers to choose. Right. And- Oh, yeah it's just so much. Sure. Yeah.

Cheryl 18:25

And, uh, even when you're trying to cooperate together, and I remember coming home from the hospital feeling this, "Oh, what in the world?" And I had an older, family member come and say, "Well, I'll help you." And then all the things that I'd kinda learned in our classes, and I'm a very natural person, and so I, I really leaned into the natural way of doing things, of childbirth, and nursing, and nurturing, and all of that. And this older family member didn't lean into that. They were of another generation and a type- Mm-hmm and saying, "Oh, poo poo, you don't need to do that." Mm-hmm. "Do it this way." And then so is that the voice I listen to or what what we really want to do?

Christie 19:07

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 19:08

Right. So I know the dilemma. We felt so pulled. Torn.

Christie 19:11

Right.

Cheryl 19:12

And then you're recuperating from giving birth, all of this, all the brand-new everything, and even further along when you have more children, you're trying to figure it out.

Joanne 19:23

Yeah.

Cheryl 19:24

So you have to have time to do what you and Chris said y'all did. Yeah. We've got to figure out together, who are we as parents? What are we going to do? Um, I just, I'm identifying with the lost feeling, and then, like your, your friend, having that narrative come in, and so you start questioning everything.

Joanne 19:45

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 19:46

Mm-hmm. Oh, do we need to question that or do we need to change?

Joanne 19:50

Right. That's tough. You know, and like we all are in a stage where we know that some of those things just don't matter. Right. Yeah, yeah. Like how you cradle the baby, and the things we stressed about, and I look back and I'm like, "Why did I worry about that? It's so not a big deal." But then there are some things that are a bigger deal. Um, but I think- Yeah one of you guys said something that I think is maybe a good starting point, is, you know, our love for our children and, you know, their wellbeing should supersede the judgment of our parents or everyone else. Mm-hmm. So that could be a good starting place- Mm-hmm of, of making that like our standard, our base level standard of, okay, you have your opinion, you have your opinion, but what is right for this child, and being able to stand firm in whatever it is for that particular- Right.

Christie 20:35

Yeah, I think being, being that student of your children and the priorities you have in your family and your home, and that, that day, honestly. I mean, sometimes my choices were dictated on the priority for the day. Yeah. We are going to prioritize sleep today. Or we're gonna prioritize, you know, these errands that we've gotta get. And so your decisions are, are gonna be very personal- Mm-hmm in your situation. Sometimes the other siblings might be the criticism Yeah. Yes that you have to defend yourself to. It

Cheryl 21:06

really is. Yeah. It's, what we're saying is it's really messy.

Christie 21:09

Yeah.

Joanne 21:10

Mm-hmm.

Carol 21:10

which side? I think it's already back to what it was when I had my first. So all the iterations, oh, now the new thing.

Christie 21:17

Uh-huh.

Cheryl 21:18

And the problem is, I want to do what's best for my children.

Christie 21:21

Right.

Cheryl 21:22

So is that critical voice right? Or is this TikTok right?

Christie 21:28

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 21:29

Or is our evaluation right?

Christie 21:31

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 21:32

Okay? I just brought some tension into, again, this whole problem because we're out of time.

Christie 21:39

Mm-hmm. Oh, great.

Cheryl 21:42

Okay, and we've stirred up this pot of how hard it is, and that this is a reality, whether it's perceived or actual criticism, whether actually under that microscope of critical voices, or do we just think we are? Right. Or in your case, a lot of times, you were the microscope questioning every single decision you ever made. Right.

Christie 22:04

Sure.

Cheryl 22:05

So what about we come back in, and we take this issue, this problem, and we kind of start sorting it out like cards on the table to go, "So what would we do with this?"

Christie 22:16

Yeah.

Cheryl 22:16

What wisdom would we speak into all of this and your friend to how do we deal with it?

Joanne 22:23

Yeah, that sounds great.

Christie 22:25

Let's

Cheryl 22:25

do it. Okay. Very good. Because this isn't a quick wrap-up.

Christie 22:29

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl 22:29

It's not like, "Oh, so tell your friend one, two, three." Okay? So how about, we'll come back and process it, okay?

Christie 22:36

Sounds

Joanne 22:36

good. Absolutely.

Cheryl 22:37

So parents, hang in there. Keep loving. Keep persevering, because it's worth it

Speaker 5 22:44

One of the gifts of getting older is realizing how many things mattered less than you thought they did. Not the children, not the relationships, just the noise. We'd love to hear from you at contact@theparentingpodcast.com. Until next time, keep making room for what matters most.