181. David Johnson: Beyond Sunday - Love (Serve) Your Neighbor

🔥 The Fire Forged Leader Podcast | Episode Title: Beyond Sunday with David Johnson – From Church Pews to the Streets

🎙️ Guest: David Johnson
📘 Book Featured: Beyond Sunday by David Johnson – Get it on Amazon »
🎧 Free Resources: Join David’s Leadership Lounge on Patreon »

🔍 Description (Google & YouTube Optimized)

In this powerful episode of The Fire Forged Leader Podcast, host Steve Baumgartner sits down with David Johnson, author of Beyond Sunday, to challenge the modern church’s definition of service, leadership, and faith in action.

From jukebox missions in Mississippi to helping addicts find freedom in Memphis, David shares deeply personal stories about growing up with a faithful father, navigating real-world evangelism, and building grassroots brotherhoods. Discover what it means to be the church outside the walls and why faith without works is dead.

💥 Learn how servant leadership isn't about comfort—it's about action, sacrifice, and walking like Jesus walked.

✅ Whether you're a pastor, leader, man of faith, or just searching, this episode will reshape how you view leadership, service, and the church's role in today’s world.

⏱️ TIMESTAMPS

00:00 – Parable of the Cotton Picker & The Edge of the Fields
01:22 – Introduction to David Johnson
02:00 – Growing up in Mississippi: Faithful family, sports, and life lessons
03:45 – Working in juke joints with his father: Light in dark places
05:53 – His father’s legacy of generosity and fearless witness
08:13 – Meeting Steve at a Disciple concert and shared mission
10:30 – Helping We Fight Monsters with housing and connections
12:45 – Launching a brotherhood call with former addicts, veterans & leaders
14:20 – The Beyond Sunday origin story and writing the book
15:40 – Church comfort vs. biblical command to go and serve
17:26 – Parable of the Good Samaritan and the cotton field explained
19:45 – What true servant leadership looks like, based on Jesus
22:09 – Accountability and truth in leadership
24:27 – The Church is people, not buildings: A call to wake up
26:52 – Faith vs. cultural love: Redefining what love really is
28:27 – The judgment seat: What have you done for Jesus?
31:09 – Faith without works is dead: The need for tangible action
33:37 – Ever

Transcript

Steve Baumgartner (00:00.184)
cotton picker out going down the rows and at the end of the rows when he turned, he couldn't pick all the cotton at the edges, right? So all, know, the Bible says the fields are white with harvest. All around the edge of these fields as they were picking, they'd have to send someone out to go pick the ends of the rows or the edge of the rows because it wasn't getting it. So our fields are white with harvest, so we're harvesting, but around all around the edges are just the remnants that people are never going to get. And if we don't go out and pick them, if we don't go out and take a concerted effort to go get them, they're never going to be picked and it's going to be wasted. And I think

that Christians need to understand that God is using us to be his hands and feet. We're not going and we're not doing what we're supposed to do, you know, and that's not the kind of leadership that Jesus put forth, you know.

Steve Baumgartner (00:48.694)
Leaders are not born in a womb. They're forged through heat, pressure, and a whole lot of sweat. The Fire Forge Leader podcast serves the audience through exploring leadership at work, in the community, and with the family, using a practical perspective and real life experiences from the host, Steve Baumgartner, and his guests in the Forge. Now, it's time to enter the Forge.

with the Fireforged Leader.

Steve Baumgartner (01:22.882)
Hey y'all, welcome back to the Fire Forge Leader podcast. Today we have a good friend of mine by the name of David Johnson. David is an amazing man and we're just going to kind of dive into his story, walk through, you know, how he grew up, who he is, where he came from, and then what he's doing today with men. without further ado, David, welcome on the show. Thanks for having me, Steve. I appreciate it, buddy. Absolutely. So looking forward to it. Let's let's go ahead and take that.

train down the tracks, starting right out with little Wee David, which I have a hard time even imagining, you know? How did Wee David grow up? You know, so from Mississippi, born in Tennessee, but we moved to Mississippi when I was young. I had great parents, raised in the church, always had that moral clarity from my parents. Just, mean, overall just a great upbringing. Can't complain, good parents.

played a little bit of football, played some basketball. I never played baseball. I couldn't hit, I couldn't hit fastball, saved my life. So I never played baseball. You know, sports was a big part of my life. I loved it. But as every teenager, you get off track a little bit and get a little wild. You always come back, you know, to the promise that the guy said, you raise them up the way they'll go. You know, they'll always come back. So I did and met my wife in high school. We dated through high school and got married out of high school and had children and still together. Still love my wife. Got the best wife in the world and just.

good life. I can't complain about the way I was brought up. you know, no issues there. No dark secrets in my closet from that. It's actually kind of interesting. I wanted everybody to hear that because a lot of people that I interview, of course, come from dark paths. But you do have some experiences with your dad. I remember you talking about, you know, being out on the road with him and yeah. Yeah. So my dad, you know, very good Christian man, but his

His chosen career was, uh, in the amusement industries. had video games, jukeboxes, pool tables and all that stuff. We were in the worst places in the world. You give it a juke joint. So I remember, you know, uh, Monday morning going out with him on the summertime, I'd be with him and we'd stepping over drunk to get to the, to, pull the money out of the jukebox or the pool table. You know, it was always interesting to see that side of life. See these guys that, you know,

Steve Baumgartner (03:43.938)
than anything. But to see the different side of my dad, my dad was always never afraid to witness to anybody. He would tell everybody about Jesus. it was always, grew, you know, I grew up seeing a different side of life that I didn't have to live. And, you know, he kind of wakes you up to the fact that there is a difference between

people who understand, I guess, that there is a higher power, that there is, you know, for me it's Jesus, you know, I believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, you know, but it's interesting to see those that are lost and just don't have that rudder, you know, that keeps them on the path. But yeah, so I always did, but I watched my dad. My dad was the most generous guy in the world. He would give money, loan money, and you know, and

He'd always said that he never got stiffed. He would loan money to everybody if they asked and he never got stiffed. Well, one guy, but he died and he owed him money. He died while he owed him money. But my dad was just, he was generous to a fault and always has been, but showed me what it meant to be a man, showed me what it meant to be genuine. you know, he was the company that he owned was, know, the other Christians probably looked down on, well, you go to this place and you're around these kinds of people. My dad never saw it that way. My dad said it was a mission field.

And where you are, you're not going to see the loss that I see. You're not going to see the people that I run into every day. And you're not going to have the ability to talk to people and tell them about Jesus the way I can. And he lived it. And that was always encouraging to see. Yeah, that's amazing because most people who are in a church, they deal with other churchgoers. They send their children to schools where the same values are present. But it's easy to talk about.

Jesus to people who believe in Jesus. To preach to the convinced? That's not a problem, you know, and that's the problem most churches have. You know, they think that, you know, my obligation to Jesus is to go on Sunday, sit in a pew for an hour and sing three songs, take up the offering, sing another song, listen to preaching, go home. You know, that's not what Jesus called us to do. Nowhere in the Bible is this said, hey, three songs, sermon, go home.

Steve Baumgartner (05:52.814)
We get to watch my dad and as a kid, sometimes it was embarrassing to listen to my dad bring up Jesus in a place where everybody was not quite in tune with what he was talking about. But he never failed to say, you need to, you need to pay attention because this life is not where it is. But yeah, great dad. That's amazing. I wish I would have had the chance to meet him, Dave. He's still alive. I'll introduce him. Yeah, we're going to have to do that. He'll be 88 this year.

He still rides his bike and he cuts the grass with the old people in his neighborhood. he's 88. On his bike? Huh? On his bike? No, no, he didn't cut the grass on his bike. He rides his bike pretty much every day right around the neighborhood. And, then he will, he will, cut the grass for the older people in the neighborhood. And he's the oldest one I think in the neighborhood. So, yeah, he's just healthy as, as an ox. I tell you what, I, know, he's, he's 88, still healthy. His mom lived in her nineties and my mom's dad, mom lived in their nineties.

afraid I may never die. Kind of scary. So I eat a lot of fried food. eat a lot of fried food just to kind of take the edge off. That's great. That's a, you know, an amazing example. you know, do you ever wonder about how much your life would have been different if you would have went into those same situations and had a different personality type as a father? yeah. Well, you know, if I'd have watched my dad go in and participate and, you know, and take a drink and

you know, and, and, or speak one way and, and live another way, you know, that would have been different. to, to see him go in and never falter from his beliefs, never faltered. I never heard my dad say a cuss word, you know, never can remember. And he was in a place where profanity was, you know, every, you know, was an and or a but for everybody there. And he just, he never, he never faltered from his beliefs, never faltered from his, who he was and his character. yeah. That's amazing.

Yeah. And, and you know, that's the reason I am that. And I got a great wife to supported me and followed me all over the country as we moved around and done stuff. She's always been right there. So between those two people, I couldn't ask for better. Yeah, no doubts. God must have been speaking in your ear when you fooled your wife in high school. Well, you know what? Whenever you, you kick one out, whenever you, you know, you're not one of the park, you say there's one that I'll never get again. You hold onto her. That's right.

Steve Baumgartner (08:13.74)
That's right. I'll kick my coverage. So yeah, but yeah, I got a great wife. Yeah. One of these days I'm going to have to meet her and your daughter as well. Yeah. Well, I wish she'd have been with us at the concert instead of where she ended up being. that Remember that night. Absolutely. So speaking of that concert, just to bring everybody else into the conversation here, David and I both got the privilege of speaking at a Christian concert and I'm trying to remember. Disciple. There we go. I couldn't remember the...

name of the band for a second. couldn't either. And Decipher Down, right? Yep, that's it. That's it. So, you know, this is the first place that David and I met. We hit it off mainly over cracking jokes at each other, of course. But ultimately, we got a pretty good friendship going on. But it was with some mutual friends. The person who was holding the concert is Tyler, who was running a nonprofit called Cross the Bear. But he invited David, myself,

Ben and Jess Owen from We Fight Monsters and a couple other people to come up and speak. And, I guess just kind of going back in history, David, you know, you said that you grew up on the right side of the tracks. You know, you got into a little bit of trouble, had a fantastic, you know, mother and father upbringing. How did you get involved with Ben and Jess's mission? Well, it's kind of funny. I was just, I'm big on LinkedIn. So was on LinkedIn one day and he had posted a video of,

the first house they were buying in Memphis. And he mentioned a couple of street names. I was like, that sounds like Memphis, which is where I grew up, just south of there. And, uh, so I just hit him up on LinkedIn and say, Hey man, you know, where are you doing this? He said, Memphis is a black desk. When I was from Memphis, it's great, man. Love to love to see what you guys are doing. Next time I'm over there. He said, well, we live in Georgia. I said, really? Well, so do we. And we ended up living like 30 minutes apart. Uh, Tammy and I, my wife and I, met.

been in Jess for lunch one day and became like family real quick and just had a heart for what they were doing. Addictions touched our family in some different ways. We just had a heart to kind of want help and we had connections and they were building houses. We had connections in the construction industry and stuff. So we kind of put people together and I own a plumbing company. So we were able to put them in touch with some plumbers that were in the area and electrician Glenn.

Steve Baumgartner (10:36.946)
Campbell was Tammy's niece's husband and he has volunteered and done a lot of electrical work for them and a company called Tanker Sleep Plumbing right there close by. They'd come up, Tammy went to school with him and he stepped up and did a lot. So we just became really good friends and were able to help and put them in touch with people that we knew in Memphis and around the area that could help them. Rob Downey is on our men's call. He's a great real estate guy and has been able to connect a lot of dots in Memphis for them too.

We were able to connect and, we became really good friends and Ben and I were talking and he said, guys need some direction. And that's where the brotherhood was formed on Friday mornings. Some of those guys, know, it's a great group of guys from guys like us who are kind of professionals in what we do. And then we've got, you know, guys from three letter agencies on there. got veterans, we got former addicts, we got former convicts, we got, you know, people who are.

who were just, think what we did, we did a thing where we added up how many years and how many arrests that our group had. And it was over 100 arrests and I think like 65 or 70 years served in prison for our group. that was with like six guys on that day. That was before it really started growing. Yeah. So it was, you know, it was a lot of guys on there and then we got a couple of guys that could still arrest him if they go south. But now it's, it's, uh, it became fast for us and

We're in Memphis because we still got families over there. So we were in Memphis quite a bit and I just kind of became fast friends with, you know, Bubba and Josh and Chris, all those guys. then Chris Hennessey out in Texas kind of joined in and I sat on the board of his, of his nonprofit and trying to help them. And it's just, there's a lot of good stuff going on and it's just.

It's a God thing, man. It just kind of fell into place. And the thing is, was looking at it and Tammy was looking at it on Facebook. She saw it and I said, hey, this guy, she said, I saw him. Yeah. So it was just kind of like all clicked in together. And in fact, Tammy was the first one on the ground up there. She got to Memphis. I had to go out of town and she went to Memphis and met Ben and all the guys up there and was on the street walking. She was packing, but she was on the street walking. She never goes anywhere without her friend. so she's up there walking around the streets up, know, like she's at home.

Steve Baumgartner (12:45.138)
But yeah, yeah, it's interesting, you know, just, and just side tangent, but you know, I get messages from my wife and it'll be from one of her friends who doesn't know Ben or anything else, but you know, he's holding up one of his silly signs and you know, yeah, it'll go all the way around through Iowa and Nebraska and you know, what have you. It's, it's mainly, yeah, it's made up of size. I mean, we've gone viral, you know, and gotten him recognition, but uh, yeah, I mean, so we, that's.

You know, we, uh, and then he started bringing me along. We, uh, went to, I mean, that was a whirlwind couple of months. were going to a lot of different things with him and speaking and doing some different stuff. And, uh, then, you know, Tammy got hurt and so kind of put the brakes on everything. But that's when I sat down and started putting pen to paper, started discovered I enjoyed writings. And you've wrote a couple of different things. You've blessed me by, you know, sharing a few things, but let's dive over into.

end your year newly published book beyond Sunday. what's, yeah, so what's the inspiration really behind that? so you and I both kind of have a kind of a kindred spirit when it comes to the way we think about organized religion. I go to church every Sunday, you know, and I'm a member of my church and I serve there. But so many times that's where people's faith stops, is sitting in that pew on Sunday and they may read their Bible at home.

They may pray, but they never get to the point that Jesus said you're to serve. know, when in Matthew 22, I believe the Pharisees asked Jesus, what is the greatest commandment? They were trying to trap Jesus. And of course, Jesus is always the guy in Rome. So he was prepared. And he said, you know, the greatest commandment is to love you God with all your heart so mind. And he, and they said, okay. But then he said, but the second is like it. Love your neighbor as yourself. If you do these two things, you fulfill the law of the prophets.

Well, we've forgotten the second commandment, right? So we love, you know, we, you know, we claim to love the Lord with all our hearts, and mind. go to church and we try to pray, we try to do right. And we fail to love our neighbor because if you love your neighbor as yourself, if myself is hungry, I'm going to feed myself. If myself is, is cold, I'm going to put a coat on myself. We don't do that. We look at the people and we look down our noses and we say, well, they're just, you know, they're just not.

Steve Baumgartner (15:10.586)
working hard enough for their, you know, they're, they're just, you know, give it into, to, you know, their addiction. They're just, they're not doing, you know, they're not doing enough. And that's just wrong. mean, Satan, you know, Bob says the roaring line, roaming to and fro. And if you don't have that faith and no way would bring you that faith, how are you ever gonna develop that faith? You know, the Holy Spirit's there and the Holy Spirit is, pulling us.

But if no one's there to go, no one's there to prep the field and to plant the seed, then how are they to hear? And we look around and we see the stars and we see the world. You got to think there's something else, but you don't equate that to Jesus. You equate that to, there's something there, but what is it? And God didn't have to have us. God didn't need us, but thank God he lets us participate. He lets us take a part in what he's doing.

I just looked around and watching Ben and Jess when we were trying to help and just seeing that the churches weren't helping. couldn't, you you talk to a church and like, yeah, that's great. That's great. That's great. But we've got a, we've got a food pantry and we gave you a food pantry. Folks can't get to your church to get the food. You're out here, you know, and it's just like, you know, okay, come to us and we'll help you. It's not what guy, I said, go. He didn't say wait on him to come. He said, go. And just the churches aren't doing it.

You know, and I did a, I came up with with a analogy the other day talking about my wife's father was a farmer and they pick cotton and he had his, his cotton picker out going down a rows and at the end of the rows when he turned, he couldn't pick all the cotton at the edges. Right. So all the, you know, the file says the fields of white will harvest.

All around the edge of these fields as they were picking, they'd have to send someone out to go pick the ends of the rows or the edge of the rows because it wasn't getting it. So our fields are white with harvest, so we're harvesting, but around all around the edges are just the remnants that people are never going to get. And if we don't go out and pick them, if we don't go out and take a concerted effort to go get them, they're never going to be picked and it's going to be wasted. And I think that Christians need to understand that God is using us to be His hands and feet. We're not going.

Steve Baumgartner (17:26.866)
And we're not doing what we're supposed to do, you know? And that's not the kind of leadership that Jesus put forth, you know? That's not, you look at what Jesus did, you Jesus met the leper, He met the blind, He met the woman at the well where she was, where she was going. He didn't wait for her to come to synagogue to get her and say, hey, you're living with five men. He waited at the well where she was going to be. And it's just, you know, we're not doing what we're supposed to do. So I sat down and began penning a book and then I talked about it and...

And when I began writing it and it just kind of flowed, you know, started off with, you know, the, uh, of course, the, the, uh, the good Samaritan, you know, by, that's the, the one we always want to say. So it started with, with that parable and just kind of flowed out from there as I began researching and looking at, there were just so many other things that you could put on and, and, and bring out. And it was just quickly became a, from a article to a, to a book and,

to kind of a more workbook, because there's questions in it, question answers, the stuff that you can do. But it just kind of flowed out and God just kind of blessed it. I want to go back for just a second. To love each other is we love ourselves, right? I have never connected that dot to service, right? And it's such a simple yet profound transition in there. I think most of us interpret that to be really just if.

Once again, if you come to me, you know, I'm gonna treat you with respect, I'm gonna treat you with kindness, you know, all those sorts of things. But I love where you took it there because that is, love is about action to start with. I mean, we know that in marriage, if we have a good marriage, it's not about our feelings, it's about what we do. It's about the decisions that we make every day. Yep, I agree. So if you look at, you when you said, you know, when we get to heaven, at the end of it all, we get to heaven.

He said, if you fed those the least of these and you attended the least of these, then you did it to me and you're welcome. But I so you look back, and I know, I remember one of things you talked about when we were at that concert was Jesus washing the feet of the disciples, right? And that was an act of service. But it wasn't an act of service to them per se, it was just to show them this is how you treat other people. I'm gonna wash your feet. I'm God. I'm gonna wash your feet.

Steve Baumgartner (19:47.346)
I didn't do it because your feet are dirty. didn't do it because you deserved it. I didn't do it for any other reason than to show you that no one's too good. And if you equate, if you kind of go down and we look at Jesus as our model, right? I hate the term servant leader because it's so overused. I've had people that I knew that I worked for and, or I watched and lead other people and they said, I'm a servant leader. And I was like, you have no clue what that is. So if you look at Jesus, right, and you look at what Jesus did, Jesus loved

those who didn't know him. He was the the woman at the well, you know, the blind, was stupid. And he would talk to all these people and he went out of his way to be compassionate. he saw the cries of Matthew 9.36, when he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them because they were like a shepherd without a, a sheep without a shepherd. And so the people that he showed that

love and compassion to with the lost, right? He said, I didn't come to heal the well, I came to heal the sick. Well don't need a physician. so if you look at, so then if you take that, so he loved, and I equate this in leadership because I'm gonna take care of my customers, I'm gonna love my customers, but I'm gonna do what Jesus did to the disciples. I'm gonna hold my people accountable. Because if you look at how he treated his disciples,

He demanded, leave your mother and your father. If you don't hate your mother father, follow me, you're not worthy of me. If you don't, you if you go out, he sent them out, he said, don't take a cloak, don't take extra food. You go out, you earn your way. I mean, Jesus was very, very dogmatic and very, very demanding of his disciples. If you're going to be, if you're going to be my disciples, you're going to have to earn it. You're going to have to be what I told you to be. And I mean, these were the 12 men that

Jesus loved and stood beside him and all 12 of them, save one, died horrible deaths. So if you say you want to be a servant leader and you look at a true servant leader, he's good for his people, not always, you know, and good to, but then that makes him good to his people. You don't, I went to a call center one time that was a company I worked for and they had a quiet room that if you got overstressed, you go in the choir, put on headphones and get it set on a bean bag in the dark.

Steve Baumgartner (22:09.778)
and de-stress. was like, see, we're really good to our people here. You know, we want to be good to, you know, I was like, that's not, teach them how to handle stress. Don't teach them how to get into it. it was just one of those things where if we're going to be true leaders in this world, if we're going to be, if we're going to reach this world for Christ, we've got to hold each other accountable. And so if we're going to be servant leaders in the church, we got to hold other Christians accountable.

I've got to hold you account. Steve, need to be telling others about Christ. Steve, you need to be going out. You need to be doing this. And I'm not saying everybody's got to go out into the streets like Ben and Jess do. because that takes a gift, but it takes nothing to show up at the homeless shelter and give out give out toiletries or to go to the sobriety house when the guys come out of detox and go into a sober house and be there with underwear and t-shirts and shorts and slides and toiletries.

And then they say, why'd you do that? When they get sober and they got their head straight, they say, why'd you do this? Because Jesus loves you and so do I. What do you Jesus loves me? He's never been here. He's been here all along. And then that's when you tell them about Christ. Ben and I were sitting there talking whenever we first met, our first lunch together. And I said, so what do you guys do for charity? And all this kind stuff. He says, look, it can't be the same person. I'm getting them off the street. I'm putting them in rehab. I'm getting them where they need to go. I can't wait around and save their souls. I have to make sure that they're getting sober.

And I said, yeah, but if we don't save their souls, we're getting a temporary reprieve. You know, we save them today and then tomorrow they die and to hell. So, you he said, yeah, but I got to have churches do that. I got to have people come alongside. That's the reason for the book, that conversation. And plus, was sitting there with, shortly after that, we had, when I watched Scott Mann's last performance of his play, I Told You of a Green Beret, I asked out, I can't remember exactly what the title is, but was phenomenal. So afterwards we were sitting there talking, went to the after party and we're sitting there talking to

to Scott, Scott says, you know, no one's coming to save us. We're the last bastion of hope in the world. And then he said, look around you, not prophets are resurgent in our country because nobody is willing to help. So these nonprofits people that come out of addiction, come out of all these problems, are going to save us. And I said, you know what? The church is not doing it. You're right. And that was, again, just another punch in the face. You know what? You're right. We're not. And so that's the premise of the book is to try to wake up churches, try to wake up Christians.

Steve Baumgartner (24:27.602)
Because the church is not four walls. The church is the people. Every time the Bible talked about the church in the Bible, it was a moving, living organism. wasn't a building. So the church is me and you. The church is all of us. Denominations don't matter. Color doesn't matter. Inner city, know, urban churches against suburban churches. We all need to come together and begin to work together with a common goal. Optics don't matter. None of that matters. We got to come together and help save people.

And that's the premise of the whole book. wanna go back to this, you know, the love that you talked about, you know, and servant leadership and things like that. I'm glad that you brought that up because, you know, a lot of people are misconstrued on this in today's age, right? Love and what it means to be a servant, you know. They wanna use things like love is interchangeable for acceptance, you know, and different words like that. They're two different words for a reason. To me, love is wanting something better for another individual.

plain and simple. If you want something better for Him and you believe in Christ, you should want that for that person. So that comes with sharing, it comes with accountability. Let's not, you know, beat around the bush either, right? When Jesus was out there with His disciples, He didn't just give them fun parables and things like that. He also rebuked them when they were wrong. He, you know, came to save and be with the lost, but the ones who thought that they were high and mighty,

He definitely knocked off from their stools, right? You know, it wasn't all just roses and rainbows and all this stuff. The Bible marks it out pretty clearly what we're supposed to do in each one of those situations. He definitely does. If you look at, know, Jesus took the task, the spiritual leaders of his time, I mean, he called them vipers. He said, you whitewash tombs. You know, he called them out to their face and it was amazing. It's always been amazing to me that

He knew the path he was on. He knew he was going to a crucifixion and yet he still just boldly walked that path and never gave any quarter to anyone who would get in his way. He stood up to everybody and again, he was accepting of those who didn't know any better. You know, he was accepting of the ones who didn't know the truth yet. but two, the ones that he gave the truth to, there was a verse in the Bible, and I can't remember where it is for the life of me, but

Steve Baumgartner (26:52.762)
He said, and many of them that day departed and never walked with him again because he laid down the truth of who he was and he didn't mince words. He looked at the disciples and said, did you guys going to leave too? And they said, where else would we go? You're the way, you're God. And so he rewarded those guys with a great eternity, but he rewarded them with an awful death down the road to stand up for him and be able to, to me there would be no greater.

privilege than to die for my Savior. Do I want to? No. But I would hope that I could stand like Bonhoeffer did or some of these guys and say, I'm not recanting. I'm not going to go backwards. I'm going to stand for him. But as a man and as people today, we can't even go tell our next door neighbor who Jesus is. It's like you walk out your door and you see your neighbor's house on fire. You're like, hope he gets out. You turn and you get in car, go to dinner.

You come home and their house is burned down and you're like, I wish somebody would have told them. You didn't kick the door in, you know? And that's what we're doing. We're watching people just on the road to hell and we're too bashful and too ashamed of our Savior to go say, hey, man, just let me tell you about my God. Just let me tell you about my Lord. And we just don't do that. And if you're a Christian, that's, we're going to, we're going to account for that.

Steve Baumgartner (28:27.186)
You

Steve Baumgartner (28:45.106)
of awards, lives saved, people changed, people affected. And that's what I could have had. And I'm holding the trophy. And I'm like, that is what I don't want to have happen to me. But I'm going to, because I don't do what he asked me to do every day. I don't walk in the door, he opens the door. I don't walk in every time. The guy bangs on my window wanting a dollar, ignore him. People want to say, well, if I give him a dollar, he goes buy his drugs. OK, if that dollar gets him through the next day so he can hit rock bottom and get changed and turn to

his life around who am I? Who am I to hold onto that dollar? Dollar's not mine, but we don't think that's a good point. I've talked to a thousand people or more who, you know, well, I'm not going to give that guy, you know, a dollar on the street corner because, you know, he's going to go do this, that, or the other. It's not about what he does with it. It's about what your intent is. I mean, I wish people wouldn't miss the mark on that so much, but you see, mean, so we were joking earlier about

you know, first Baptist church and, know, and, and, revelation and the first chapters two and three, there's a chapter in the book about the churches, but Jesus writes a letter to all the churches, right? And he writes a letter to Ephesus and to Sardis and, there's, there's one in Sardis is when I call the first Baptist church Sardis, right? Cause it says you're rich and you're, you're, and you're, thinks you're, you're, you're alive, but you're dead. You know, every town's got one of those.

And usually it's, I won't say it's not, it's the first Baptist church or first church of something, you know, and it's where all the money goes. It's where all the things, everybody goes there to be seen and not every, I'm going to get in trouble. People will be mad at me for saying first Baptist, but anyway, it's just, we tend, you know, there's those churches in every town that all the money goes to, or they're there to be seen. So as Jesus taught all these churches, you can see different churches and, you know, Ephesus was, you you lost your first love. You you forget why you're doing the work, but you don't know why you're doing it.

You you forget. And then the last one is Laodicea. Is the church said Jesus said he wanted to spew you out of his mouth. He wanted to vomit you out of his mouth because you're lukewarm. You're neither good, you're no bad. You're just rocking down the middle. You're straddling the fence. You're accepting everything and you're not doing anything for anybody. You're just clouding the water. want to vomit you out of my mouth. That's what we are as a church. That's what we are as a society, a society of faith as the church. We no longer stand for right and wrong. We no longer stand for what Jesus

Steve Baumgartner (31:09.083)
said is right on Jesus was very dogmatic about what sin looked like. You know, they're black and white. Now there are some great areas. Yeah, of course. And we can disagree on things. I mean, you're Catholic, I'm Baptist. We can disagree on some things, but dude, I know your heart and I know where you're coming from. And I have no doubt that we're going to see each other in heaven one day. But we still, believe that Jesus is son of God, born of a virgin, died on the third day he rose again, went to heaven to be with God, the Holy Spirit, He indwells us. Dude, that's the mark, you know?

As long as we can believe that, I truly believe that I would rather walk with a whole lot of Catholics and a whole lot of Baptists because you see a lot of service and the Bible says faith without works is dead. And now what that means is you're not going to work yourself into heaven, but the faith that you have will be shown by your works. And so many people have no works at all. What have you ever done for Jesus? I got saved when I was young. What have you done for Jesus? Well, I go to church every Sunday, but what have you done for Jesus? Well, I mean, I...

welcome people at the front door and be like, have you done for Jesus? What have you done to further the kingdom of God? So many, so many Christians, I honestly believe the most surprised group of people in heaven are going to be churchgoers. Cause God is going look at them and say, I never knew you. Oh, but when I was at church every Sunday, yeah, I saw you there. I had no idea who you are. Cause you're not in my book. You never made me Lord your life. You never put me in a place of leadership in your life. Never accepted me. And they're going to.

be surprised when he utters them in some place besides heaven. It's interesting, David, as I'm sitting here listening to you talk and you know how, I don't know how I want to say this, but we've talked behind the scenes, you know, this men's organization that I have now, I fought for a long time trying to keep that secular, right? Because I can bring more men in and you know, what have you. And I've had more, you know, God kept on poking me and prod me and no, this is the way I want you to do it, right? You know, it's not going to happen by osmosis.

So I changed the script and it's been good. It's been really good. The results have been tremendous. There's been men who went off their blood pressure medicine after being on it for decades. Men who connected with their wives, men who gave up their anger. I mean, it's just amazing when you start actually serving how he wants you to serve. And I say all that to really say this, that we talked about things and things like that.

Steve Baumgartner (33:37.019)
There's some really, really great missions out there. Not all of us can do that. You know, I've been called to do this men's organization. That's my calling. There's no doubt about it. But I also just hosted a men's ruck on Saturday, you know, brought men together out in public to get other men interested, you know. There's simple things that you can do. So don't wait for the perfect organization to be with. Give that dollar. Go out there and, you know, talk to a young

young man or a young lady or whoever, bring people together, know, serve however you can serve in the moment, I guess is what I want to say. mean, not everybody can do what you do. Everybody can do what Ben does. Everybody can do what Tyler does, you know, and they're, know, cause you know, know, T's got a, he's got a great sense of humor. He's got a great, you know, uh, humble, he's a humble guy and I really hope that God leads him.

and down the path to find where he's really to be plugged in because he's got such a good heart. And you watch these guys and they've got such a desire, but they've got that niche and they've all found their spot. you know, maybe that you're the guy who just delivers the bread, man. It just, you you take it, you take, you know, extra food down and take it where it's needed and just, Hey, why are you doing this? Cause you just told me to do. She just loves you. And so do I.

It's all it takes. All it takes is just being available to do what God tells you to do. And if you ask him to show you, he'll show you. He's there's no doubt in my mind that if anyone of his children says, Hey God, how can I serve you? He's going to say, well, here, here, here, here, let's go. These are your talents. What are you good at? it's not everybody's services will look the same. Not everybody's path is going to look the same, but to get out the pew and go to where God's calling you to go is the key.

If you, you if you took the, the prodigal son and you put it in the day's terms, it would be, the preacher goes by the deacon goes by and they both look at him. Then here comes a biker on a bike tattooed up with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth and, he stops, you know, and he helps puts the guy on his motorcycle, takes him down, you know, pushes his motorcycle down the next exit, takes him to motel six and puts him up and gives him some food. And, know, that's what it took to look like today because that tattooed dude on the motorcycle.

Steve Baumgartner (36:03.963)
He just got saved. He's got the love of Jesus in his heart. It's fresh. I've often said on our brotherhood call on Fridays, I don't get many amen's, but I get a bunch of hell yes. You know, because those guys are from, you know, a lot of those guys are from the street and they weren't there too long ago. But I tell you what, when a couple of those guys pray, was in the room, brother. I've listened to a bunch of, I've listened to bunch of prayers at church and I don't feel like they go above the ceiling.

But when those guys pray, when they bow their head and they start talking to Jesus, Jesus is listening because they have a heart for him and they're trying to serve him. They're doing the best they can. And I love those guys. I love every one of them. And it's been, it's better for me on Fridays. I come out that whole lot lighter, just being around those guys. I appreciate you doing that as well, man. I don't know if I've ever told you that, but those Friday morning calls are powerful.

I appreciate that. So if anybody, if any of your guys want to ever want to go see that they're, they're welcome to join those. Those are open to that. So if anybody ever calls you, it wants to link, give it to them. What they can go on to my Patreon page, which is the leadership lounge on Patreon. It's free. They can go and they can see all of, I put the scripts on there, the, my notes on there from where I speak off of every week. So there's a 40, 50 I'm on there now. they can go. that many already? It's been over a year. Wow. I did want to.

I did want to tap into you a little bit. Let's just put a couple different scenarios out there, right? Number one, you have the person who's obviously angry, may or may not even know why they're angry with God. You have a person who doesn't, hasn't ever had the opportunity, I guess I'll say. And then you have the person who is just mildly curious. And you encounter these people in whatever

service activity you're doing. How would you suggest approaching those three individuals with those different experiences? if you get someone who's curious, they've always got questions and it's never the wrong answer to say, I don't know. I had a guy ask me, so when a baby's born, when does it start? I said, well, I believe it starts at conception. Just for me. I believe so. Is it like, where does that power come from? Does it come from the baby come down from heaven and it's just open? Is that the body or does it? I said, dude, I don't know. I said, but who's not to say that

Steve Baumgartner (38:23.257)
God takes the energy that's already in this world and forms a baby right there. know, God takes the energy that's present in those bodies and just forms it and creates the body. The body's already, the spirit's already here. He just takes it and forms it. Who's to say? I don't know. There's, you know, he formed, he formed this world with his mouth. He said, let there be and there was. He didn't touch anything. He took, he took Adam's rib and made Eve. God can do whatever he wants to do.

So people have all these gotcha questions. So people have gotcha questions, and there's nothing wrong with saying, I don't know. I don't know. know, God didn't, it's not in my Bible. So I don't know. And because they're going say, well, you know, like when they ask Jesus, know, so if this lady is married, her husband dies, and his brother marries her to a girl, so whose wife is she when he gets heaven? I don't know. That's for God to decide. I don't know the answer to that question. There's nothing wrong with saying, I don't know. But the people who come up,

I had a guy come up to me and talk to me and he said, you keep quoting the Bible. I don't know if I believe the Bible. I'm not sure I believe in God. So, how are you convinced me that Jesus is real? I said, well, there's more. So, if you look, and I gave him the book, The Case for Christ, said, read Lee Strobel's book, The Case for Christ. That's a good starting point. But I said, if you just want to, there's more historical evidence for Jesus than there is for many of the things we take for granted in history.

There's more Jewish history, Roman history that talk about Jesus. And then they talk about the crucifixion and they talk about the empty tomb. There's talk about all those things in history. I said, but all that aside, let me ask you one question. You've got 12 men who walked with Jesus and were expecting to be part of his new kingdom, right? They're expecting him to take over and they saw him crucified, saw him die. They all scattered. They all ran like scalded dogs, right? They all ran and hid. A couple of weeks later, all of sudden,

All these guys are out talking about Jesus, talking about it all, and they're in public and they're no longer afraid. They're no longer scared. And these 12 men take the gospel of Jesus Christ into the world and it explodes. And all 12 of those guys, save one, dies a horrible death. Why would anybody die for fiction? know, they didn't get Yep. They had to have something that they saw.

Steve Baumgartner (40:41.849)
that convinced them that Jesus was the Messiah and I would think he promised. Only thing they did that was a resurrection of Jesus, right? So if you want to talk to me why I believe what I believe, and he brought up, what about, you know, the jihadists that blow themselves up? I said, they are radicalized and they're doing it for something that they're going to get over here. And they don't have to withstand praying. They don't have to withstand torture like the disciples did. They just blow themselves up because they're going to get, you know, whatever version or whatever the thing is. They don't have to withstand

and live through the torches. I mean, they were burned alive. They were flayed alive. They were boiled in oil. They were crucified upside down. All these guys were, and they knew they were going to die, and they went willingly to die. And that's why I can believe in my heart of hearts that Jesus is real. Over and above what I feel in my heart and the Holy Spirit's in my heart, over and above that, knowing that that's what transpired way back then and to watch the explosion of

that faith all over the world. was no internet. There was no books. wasn't. know, it just exploded. That's an easy way to just say, this is, this is why I believe this is the icing on the cake. The Holy Spirit's reason. believe he's in my heart. I feel him every day and I, and I know he's there and I feel comfort and you know, everybody's born with a God. So I was holding our life in their heart and their life and they can try to fill with people, alcohol, whatever.

But the only thing that will ever feel that and make it feel whole is Jesus Christ. The only thing that'll make it feel whole. And if you've never had that peace, if you've never had that sense of just overarching comfort and just peace that no matter what happens, Jesus is there. And if I die tomorrow, like if I go to sleep tonight and I'm not going to wake up and see this world tomorrow, I know what I'm going to see. I'm going look in the face of my Savior and I'll be in heaven. He says, absolutely the body is present with him. And I have no doubts. And I've never had a doubt.

And it's because of that comfort that you feel. Did I answer your question? I believe so, but I want to pull just a tidbit out of it, Dave. When I heard you speak, every time that you were talking about an example, it came from a question, whether it was out of anger or whatever else, you were answering a question. And I was sitting here thinking in my head, did Jesus ever go around and say, I'm Jesus, listen to me, right? He didn't go out there and boast like that. He waited for someone to ask him a question.

Steve Baumgartner (43:06.619)
served someone first and then when they asked, he responded. Or when they talked to him or came at him with anger or whatever, that's when he responded. I like that model. I don't know if you meant to go there, but that's what I was picking up. you know, and, you know, I don't, I don't have a problem. I'm pretty out there. I'm pretty vocal with my faith. You know, I do have people who confront me sometimes with.

I don't know if I believe that. don't know. I had one guy come with me one time and he was, yeah, and I was trying to witness to him in a roundabout way. We worked together so I couldn't just go full bore at him. So we were just kind of talking. said, so when you believe the Bible, he yeah, I believe the Bible. You believe it's the word of God? Oh yeah, I sure do. I said, well, so what do you think happens after this? He said, well, I think you come back. I said, what do think you'd come back as something else? How do you believe the Bible? you can get re-encouraged. He said, well, kind of believe the Bible. I kind of believe little Buddha. He was just...

putting all together, just making his own little faith. And I was just like, dude, you can't do that. Either you believe the whole Bible and Jesus said, I'm the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to follow the blood by me or you believe something else. can't, you just, you know, but yeah, it's, I'm not purging by any stress. Imagine, don't ever get me, don't ever think I'm saying that, but I try my best to always be out there with my faith and never back down from what I believe and who I am, who saved me.

and why I am where I am because man, if it wasn't for God, I would be probably the biggest scumbag in the world, you know, but Jesus saved me and he gave me a fantastic wife that keeps me straight every day. you know, absolutely. And I had great, you know, he brought me up with great family. I know some folks don't have that and they still come out because Jesus is so good. God is so good to us. And it's fantastic to watch someone turn their life around. I'll watch some of those guys on our call.

and knowing the life they've had and where they came through, what they've come through, and they come out the other side and they just praise Jesus for saving them. That's just awesome, man. That's just awesome. yeah, I think if you have someone who is seeking and they're open, that's God pulling on them. So we don't, as people, we don't generally go after God. God comes after us. I truly believe that God pulls us. And if he's not pulling you, then you're not going to come. God pulls us to him. And I think we have to be, that's why we have to always be aware.

Steve Baumgartner (45:23.995)
because right now there's somebody out there that Steve Bumgarner is supposed to talk to. God's preparing his heart, God's pulling him, God's putting things in his path that makes him seek, and God's gonna put him in of Steve Bumgarner, and Steve Bumgarner better talk to him. Because if he doesn't, nobody else might. And we need to be aware that sometimes maybe the only person standing between them and I don't know. mean, don't know, I'm not afraid to say I don't know, but I truly believe that God's preparing people out there, and if he's gonna prepare for me, I don't ever wanna back down.

from that. I'm sure I do. I'm sure there are times I don't pay attention and I'm too busy to be worried with it. I'm too busy to pay attention and I hope that he runs her back again. I'm hoping that it's like a circle. He keeps running back in front of me. So I finally catch on and say, okay, God, I've seen this guy three times when he talked to me, but you know, I don't know. But I think God uses us in a way that praise God. uses us, gives us that opportunity to help him. And because he doesn't need us, he doesn't need us at all. He could, he could say who he wants to save all by himself.

and he allows us to help.

Steve Baumgartner (46:27.359)
Absolutely. right, David, this has been absolutely phenomenal, man. I appreciate you coming on today. Once again, your Patreon site is the Leadership Lounge. So go to patreon.com front slash the Leadership Lounge. It's always, it's all on there. was going to, I was kind of like you, I was going to make it more leadership oriented and then it just got to be more just about, you know, about faith. I've got some leadership stuff on there. I need to put more on there, but I haven't because it seemed like every, every week I'm talking about.

something else for men. And, uh, you know, it's all about, it's a lot about manhood. Uh, but I think if female, if a lady was going there, she'll get something out of it too. But a lot of good stuff on there. A lot of good stuff. Absolutely. Guys go check it out. patreon.com forward slash leadership lounge. Then you leadership. And go by beyond Sunday. I think you get a lot out of that. think, I think my hope, my whole.

purpose, I think is what God's pointing me to is to try to get in front of churches and speak. I don't know if that's going to work. I don't know what he's going to do on that, but I think that's what he's leading me to be open to. And I'm not a preacher by any stretch, but I do like to talk, you know that. So, yeah, dogs and I can talk to a brick wall. right, man. Well, once again, appreciate you coming on and we will see you on Friday, my friend. Thank you brother. Love you, man.

Steve Baumgartner (47:56.475)
You have just experienced the heat and pressure of the forge. Remember, words without action are meaningless. Now, after the heat of the forge, shape your thoughts, quench your brain, then put your new tools to use, adding to your leadership. Tune in next week for more lessons from the forge.