If Rebuilds Are Cycles, Did New York Just Circle Back To 2004?

We chart the fallout from the Letter 2.0, why the vibe feels like 2004, and how to turn a PR reset into a real plan. We map trade timing, value, and roles, and we say what it takes to stop the cycle and build a spine that lasts.

• GM silence pushing questions onto coaches and players
• Why this reset leans closer to 2004 than 2018
• Thin prospect pipeline and what profiles to target
• Panarin market setting and retention strategy
• Trocheck’s multi-asset value case
• Lafrenière’s left wing usage and evaluation window
• Schneider’s trajectory and trade thresholds
• Productive losses as development, not surrender
• Power play identity and star support gaps
• Guests queued for prospect insight and draft prep

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage: Letter 2.0
• 2:05 GM Silence And Media Backlash
• 4:45 Empty Cupboards And 2004 Flashbacks
• 7:05 Rooting For Productive Losses
• 10:55 Panarin Timeline And Market Setting
• 13:05 Lafrenière’s Wing, Usage, And Value
• 16:40 Schneider’s Ceiling And Trade Math
• 21:25 The Eichel What-If And Asset Decay
• 26:40 Panarin’s Legacy And The Hurt
• 31:40 How Supporting Casts Shape Stars
• 37:15 Road Record, Scoring Droughts, Mental Drag
• 41:50 Deadline Strategy: Move Now Or July
• 45:40 Targets, Prospect Pools, And Dallas
• 50:30 Coaching Carousels And Consistency
• 56:30 Development, Optics, And Blame
• 1:01:45 What’s Left To Watch This Season
• 1:05:00 Guests, Prospects, And Next Steps

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:56

Good evening, everybody. Two guys, one cuff, Sean and Rock. This uh episode is titled The Letter 2.0 Retweat. I was gonna put I was gonna have uh a little Elvis for us, but I didn't have time to come up with it and get it all cued and ready to go. But here we are, a little Elvis, deja vu all over again. Deja vu all over again. I feel like you know, we're gonna party like it's 2017 right now. Because we're right back in the same spot. A team that came really damn close that you got really, you know, you you developed a large affection for some of the players. You know, just like we missed, you know, when 2017 it was bittersweet to say goodbye to McDonna. And I don't not for you, Nash, but for me, Nash, and Stepan and Brasar, you know, the guys who got us there. Right. We had some success, and here we are. We had some more success. Didn't get it done. And now it's time to move on. And so here we are. I will move on to rock. How's it going, buddy?

SPEAKER_02: 1:57

I am good. Um, you know, uh, nothing like a Friday afternoon uh presser dump for the Rangers to uh start a weekend and then go off on the West Coast. And jury, as usual, is in hiding. And uh, you know, we talked about it on our last show that we needed some kind of understanding of what the plan was, what they were gonna do. Um, and on Friday afternoon, you know, we got it. And you know, I don't like the way they handled it. Um, I don't think it was necessary to handle it in that matter. Now, I don't know if they did the letter for the season ticket holder purposes. Um you know, you have the you you're under the impression, which I don't completely disagree with, but um is they they decided to do it after the last uh season ticket payment was already made, which I don't really think they would I don't I don't know if that would have mattered or not, it's coincidence or what. Um I just think that um it was done very cowardly as as our GM is. He is the cowardly GM. And he's starting to really uh get the wrath of a lot of media, and like we talked about, not only the media in our local media, but nationally. You know, they're calling him media shy, and in and in some ways they're they're starting to say like they've left Sullivan and the players, he's left Sullivan and the players hanging out to dry uh in a lot of ways by having to answer questions that he should be the one answering, not the coach and not the players. Um, and but I'm not surprised with this guy. So it is what it is, it sucks. We're in a shitty spot because we still got 30 some odd games left. I mean, it's sad, Sean. I mean, we love hockey. You and I, you know, you're a big football, you're more of a football guy. We're both baseball people, but hockey's our passion. It it's it's what we live and breathe. You and I talk about a lot of things, but I would say what 75% of our your of our conversations have to do with hockey related in some capacity, in some form. I agree. And I it's a life with a lot of my friends, you know, a lot of a lot of my close friends, hockey is is is our is our world, it's our life. And and to to be to for these games to just mean nothing. And and for them to have, you know, I mean, but these like to look have nothing to look forward to. It's sad. It it's it reminds me more this this one reminds me a little bit more of uh the 2003-2004 sell-off than 2018. Only for the fact that they had nobody in the cupboard other than Feder Tutin. They had nobody in the cupboard, and they made all these trades, or they traded Kovalev, and they traded Nedved and they traded Leach and they traded all these guys, and you know, at least they brought in guys that you can kind of wrap your head around around. They brought in Joseph Bali, they brought in David Lifferton at the time, who who they all all these guys who they thought at the time were gonna be players in this league. Obviously, we all know how that turned out, but you got to watch those guys play. I mean, let's be fair. They brought up Perot. You know, there's nobody in the cupboard for them to bring up, and you have to think that they may be in worse shape now than they were in 2018. You know, they had a 24-year-old Mika Zabinijad, they had you know a 25-year-old Chris Kreider, they had, you know, um, they had Gerardi, they had Buchnevich. Yeah, thank you. They had um other guys that you can kind of see, all right. Well, they have a little bit of a foundation where they can build on. They had Brady Shea, a young Brady Shea, you know. Um, this time around, I mean, it's really Gabe Perot. If you want to, I mean, Lafreniere's already been here six years. We kind of really don't know what he is. Will Cooley, Lava. I mean, I I don't think they're as set up as good from a uh prospect perspective as they were in 2018. To me, this reminds me a lot more of 2004 when they had really Fedor Tutin and no one else in their farm system.

SPEAKER_01: 6:35

Oh, they got Yarko Eamon in.

SPEAKER_02: 6:37

Well, they got him on the leach trade.

SPEAKER_01: 6:39

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02: 6:41

You know, they had uh, you know, we can go on and on about the prospects they acquired. Um, but I mean, you know, I mean, think about all the guys they got that and nothing. You know what, though, to be fair, I mean they did get Callahan out of that, they did get Dobinsky. Um, you know, uh, they did bring in other draft picks and other players that you know, they used Kendrachev to acquire Peter Sokora the next year from Anaheim, they used him, so they did they did bring in guys, unfortunately. You know, it is what it is, but yeah, to me, this reminds me more of 04 than than 2018.

SPEAKER_01: 7:18

Yeah, and we're now at the point where I'm rooting for losses because yeah, to me, and again, we're not prospects people, but this is and we we are gonna get a prospect person on. Yes, we will try to be later sooner. Steve will definitely come on. I've spoken to Steve. Oh, good, you have spoken to him, perfect. Yeah, um, I haven't locked down a date with him, but you know, he he loves Cohen on our show, so he said he'll come on. Good, and there's nobody I trust more than that. And my my second, my second runner-up as far as prospects is Russ Cohen. I know Russ will come on also, right? You know, whenever time allows, right? And it'll be good to get two two different perspectives on on maybe the same players and see how Steve sees it and see how Russ sees it.

SPEAKER_02: 8:01

And yeah, and you and I you and I are gonna probably have to start diving into this stuff sooner than later, too. I mean, we I refuse to well, in the sense in the sense where we have to at least know who the guys are in the top ten.

SPEAKER_01: 8:12

Oh, I know the name. I watched I watch the highlight videos on everybody, but that's but that's not seeing guys play.

SPEAKER_02: 8:19

That's I know Gavin McKenna, and that's the only guy I know, right? And and and Kayle and Caleb Melholtra. That's about it.

SPEAKER_01: 8:25

Other people get the jersey ready, get the jersey ready. Will he wear number six? Is the question.

SPEAKER_02: 8:30

I don't know. Who's wearing is anyone wearing number six right now?

SPEAKER_01: 8:32

My blanket available. Zach Jones wore it. Now it's available.

SPEAKER_02: 8:35

Yeah, well, we've had a lot of great number sixes. Wade Redden. Yeah, what was he? Number eight. Number one, or six, right? Six, yes. Yeah, Doug Litzer's probably the best six we've had in a while. Maybe. Um, but uh yeah, I mean, it's it's it's sad because like I said, I I look for I I mean, I look forward to these games. I I really I mean look forward to the season to just have these games to be so meaningless so early. Right. And you still got six weeks to treat to the trade deadline. You got this stupid Olympic bullshit that I don't even care about. I I don't know if a lot of people care about. I I could care less about the Olympics. I really care about it.

SPEAKER_01: 9:14

Neither do I.

SPEAKER_02: 9:15

I I I mean, God bless. I hope I'm I hope the US wins. I I'll never root against the United States in any capacity. Obviously, I'm a I'm a I'm a Lake Plastic guy, Miracle on Ice, 1980, all that not all that good stuff. I wish they go back to letting the amateurs play. I really do. I I don't I don't like my my NHL season being disrupted for this Vacokta nonsense with guys that you know haven't played together. I mean, you watch Miracle, these guys played together for a year before they played in the Olympics, right? So I don't like it, but these games being meaningless is just it's really heartbreaking in that sense.

SPEAKER_01: 9:52

Um well you gotta you have to find things to watch for. So now it's watch for how does Offman look when you know in his limited minutes because Sullivan's still trying to win every game possible.

SPEAKER_02: 10:03

Have you watched any of these games? Yeah, oh you watched them. I watched a little bit of of last night's game. I watched a little bit of uh sorry, the LA game, which wasn't last night, it was the night before. Um, I watched uh a little bit of Anaheim, but I'm not staying up till 1 a.m. to to to watch this.

SPEAKER_01: 10:20

I hockey. So I I watched um yeah, I watched as as long as uh as long as that went on for. Um the you just gotta find the little things to watch for. I I want the I want losses, I want productive losses. Meaning at the end of the day, I I don't want the win, I don't want the points anymore. No, but I also don't want to see abject uh laziness or give up. I want to see the kids still I want to see the kids start to play well. Um, and God willing, these guys get moved quicker than you know, sooner than later, so that you can start giving some bigger roles, right? And the first thing that I want to see, because I mean the Panera thing, I I think in Panarin's best interest, because he doesn't he doesn't like this, what's going on. It's pretty clear he doesn't want to talk about it, he knows it's inevitable. I think that he's I don't think that that goes all the way to the trade deadline. I think that it'll happen sooner. Um I also it also may set the market. Like the team, you know, teams might not want to make moves if they feel that there's still a chance to get him. Okay. When the day that he is out, LaFernier moves back to left wing. That to that to me becomes one of the most important things that we need to start to see before we can make a true decision on on Love. I'm also not for trading Love in season. I want to see him play the rest of the season on the left wing, and then you make that decision in July. You make it you make it in the offseason. What what you're planning to do with him if you're gonna move on from him. A, I think it'll with his salary cap, with his cap number, you'll get more teams involved if you wait until uh July. But again, he's been playing on the wrong side this entire time. Maybe Gerard Glant was right when he said the guy can't play the right wing. Because and I had a buddy of mine that I play hockey with that noticed Nick. But Sean he had a season on the off wing. Granted, well, he hasn't had a good season other than that one season, so it doesn't really say much. But if you watch a spent season on his off wing, I get that. But my buddy pointed out, and it makes sense once he said it, I'm like, when I thought about it, it really made sense. Every time you see La Frenier in a highlight where he makes like a wow type of play, what is he doing? He's coming from the left side of the ice cutting through the middle to the right side. He's never coming from the right side, cutting through the middle to the left. Okay, so he is clearly more comfortable on the left on the left side. He knows how to get he knows how to move in from the left better than he does from the right. Because we never see it from the right. Right. We never see him do anything from the right. You know, as far as any of his, you know, through the legs or you know, anything where he's playing free and loose. And that's what you want to see. So he's clearly been blocked by Panarin this whole time. No more excuses from that once Panarin's out. Um Trochet.

SPEAKER_02: 13:24

He was actually blessed, he was actually blocked by Kreider, to be fair. Now Kreider's gone. They did move him to the his offside, and he still didn't produce. And they tried moved him back on Panarin's line to try to get him going again.

unknown: 13:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 13:37

I mean, that's really what it came comes down to. I mean, if you can't score with Panarin on your wing, and that guy, I mean, that guy made Jesper fast and Colin Blackwell. I mean, go got both of those guys' uh new contracts. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 13:52

I mean, again, I think I think the reports are do you do you do you believe in the world? No, I agree.

SPEAKER_02: 13:59

I don't disagree with you. I don't I don't completely disagree with you. I think we need to see that. If nothing else, if he has if he has a great end to the season, you instead of selling him for you know 50 cents on the dollar, you sell him for 75 cents on the dollar.

SPEAKER_01: 14:11

I mean Friedman, I was it Friedman or Panyota that said that um he thinks Drury is gonna look to continue to develop La Fournier, fix him rather than move on for him.

SPEAKER_02: 14:23

Listen, I I'm not I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit here and knock Elliott Friedman in any stretch by any stretch of the imagination. He's an outstanding, outstanding insider. But when it comes to the Rangers, he said they were not in on Quinn Hughes, and he was wrong. He does not have the Ranger um in uh sources that other people have.

SPEAKER_01: 14:48

Dregor seems to have it the most national guys, Frank Saravelli does, yep. Frank does too.

SPEAKER_02: 14:55

Um and you know what? You can shit on Penota, but to be fair, he was the only one that said they were in on Quinn Hughes until until LeBron put it out there. So, I mean, take that for what you want. He's normally more wrong than right when it comes to the Rangers, but uh, you know, he also has a lot of connections out west, and he says that the Peñota says that that the sharks are interested in Braden Schneider. So I don't know. I I don't really know where where all that fits in, but you know, as far as La Frenier, I mean, I I mean he's been here six years. I I I don't I'm not giving him away in some ways, but I'm not holding it. If you I think the longer you hold on to him, I just think these prospect hugging the team does with these guys is they hold and they hold and they hold. And you know, at some point you got to trade somebody, you know, and and I I understand their their thought process, and they and and you know, I guess in hindsight, as a lot of people have been saying over the last two years, or like last two months, I should say, is I guess you would have traded every guy they wanted to go to Pit to Buffalo for Eichel now. Whatever they wanted, take whoever you want. Yeah, you want five guys, take them all. Because in in in theory, I mean, you're right back where you are. I mean, I don't know if Eichel makes that big of a difference at this point, but these guys have no value now, or little or have a lot less value than they probably did two, three years ago.

SPEAKER_01: 16:25

Who has no value?

SPEAKER_02: 16:26

Lafreniere, I don't think, has the value that he had. I don't think Braden Schneider has the value that he had. You know, that that Boston Schneider's got a ton of value. Well, that Boston game, from what I understand and what I've heard, that Boston game, he was exposed big time, and they and they crushed him after that game. So I'm not a hundred percent sure. Um uh, you know, obviously he's 24 years old. And Sean, listen, we've seen these guys, and JT Miller's one of them. We've seen these guys leave places and blossom. It's it's not out of the but we've also seen Alexander Daig and Nel Yakopoff, you know, and and Magnus Peldyarvi and Jesse Peldyarvi and a lot of these other high draft picks who go play stuff, and they don't have to be a good one.

SPEAKER_01: 17:14

I want to cut you off real quick just for one second.

SPEAKER_02: 17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:17

Yakupov, Pyarve, who was the other one you mentioned? Daig. Daig, who we now saw the the um Amazon Prime uh documentary on.

SPEAKER_02: 17:31

I didn't see all guys I gotta watch.

SPEAKER_01: 17:33

Oh, it was good. It was very good. All three of those guys never had it up here. Not no, I don't mean hockey sense, I mean drive. Daig didn't want to play. Drive though? Dag didn't want to play. He was super talented and didn't want to be in the NHL. He just he he didn't like it. He lost he lost his passion for it in juniors. That's it's crazy to think. But just he it's like Johnny Manzel, like in football, just didn't want to play anymore. Um Yakopov, mental case, PRV, mental case. Like these are like these are people with mental problems that just are extremely physically gifted at the sport. So it has a lot to do with why those types of guys didn't make it. Now, don't get me wrong, we've heard uh the stories of you know, does Lafreniere put in the amount of work off ice that he should, stuff like that. I don't see him ever have he doesn't seem to be a malcontent, he's extremely well liked by everybody in the locker room. All the veterans took to him pretty quickly, like took him in. Like he became one of the guys at like 21, 22 years old, and everyone else was you know 29, 30. So I don't see that trait with him. Same with Schneider. I don't see a mental case trait with him. Listen, I'm down to trade Schneider if the if the return is great. I'm not looking to get rid of him because, like you said, he is 24 years old. He does show a lot of physical traits that you want. He's got the size, he can skate, he can move the puck a little bit, he can shoot a little bit, he plays physical, you know, he puts grown men on their asses. Right. Um and what does that look like at 26-27 when this, you know, when this hopefully gets turned around? Guy might be a cornerstone type player. I'm not saying a top pairing defenseman, but could be that you know, that middle pairing guy that you need that you're gonna just gonna be looking for. Right. Like I said, when we traded Kreider, the day you trade Kreider, you're looking to replace him. Right. And Schneider is similar in that sense, not to the extent of Kreider, who's an all time ranger, but the minute you trade Schneider, all the things, all the boxes Schneider checks off, you're gonna go right back to the scouting board and say, All right, can we get another one of those guys? Because that's what we need. So you're just at 24 years old. I guess he's depending on RFA. I'm sure they've already had discussions with the agent to gauge what a contract is gonna look like. You know, is he looking long term? Is he down to just do another bridge? Is he looking for five, six million dollars a year somehow? Right. Is he looking for just a small, you know, 10% raise? Like what's the framework? So this way when you go into this offseason, like Keonj Miller, they knew he wanted eight million dollars a year and they weren't paying him that. So it was an easy they were easy, it was easy to move on from him because they knew that contract-wise, they were so far apart on what they wanted to do, it wasn't even a conversation anymore. Okay, so they gotta see where that is with Schneider, right? Um but yeah, him and La Ferniere are just the two young guys that could still be building blocks as they as they continue to mature. Well, I'd say building blocks in like again, they're not gonna not one of them's not gonna be Adam Fox 2.0, and the other one's not gonna be Panarin 2.0, but just foundational players that you know, as you you can't you can't change 20 people on the roster, right? That's nuts.

SPEAKER_02: 21:10

You know, and I don't I don't disagree with you. I I just think I I can see them sticking around. I I think what's gonna it's gonna come down to is how how deep they're gonna cut this roster. You know, uh with uh to me, and and this seems to be the consensus from everyone, is that you're not set putting out a letter if you're just going to trade Panarin and Susie. Correct. So I don't know what that involves because let's let's look at let's just look at it for what it is. You're not you're probably not trading Zabinajad, you're probably not trading Miller, you're not trading Gabrikov, you're not trading uh Fox, you're not trading Shishurkin. Right. Will Borgan also has a full moon, no move for this season and this season only. He's here. So we'll really how many guys is that really leave you? Does anyone really want Taylor Radish? Does any I mean maybe Sam Carrick gets traded? I don't know what you're getting for him. I mean, I I don't know. I I know Trochek is obviously the hot is the hot choice, and I'll be f I'm gonna be full completely honest. He won me over in a lot of ways with with a lot of the things he did well. And I and again, I want to preface when I said this, that I never I never liked him because he used to always used to kill us. But I also didn't like the move because I didn't think it was uh in a giant upgrade in the sense where I don't I didn't think it was the giant needle mover. And and in some ways I might have been wrong where he was definitely more of a he was definitely a better player than Strome, that's for sure. Especially from the face-off Daddy, that big year with Panarin, which which Strome never had, never put up 70 points for the Rangers. Um so from that perspective, I was wrong. But from uh I do believe that he is your biggest asset. And if you cannot hit a home run, and I'm talking three pieces, I'm talking about a bigger package than you because everyone's talking about Brock Nelson. I'm talking I'm talking bigger, I'm talking like four, maybe three, maybe even four pieces. Um yeah, of course. Borgan has a complete no-trade clause. You can look it up. Uh they're not putting him on waivers, he's not gonna be waived. Um, anyway, uh I love him. If you're not literal in the league, if you're not gonna be literal, you can't be literal. Um, but uh I lost my train of thought. But you should get at least four pieces for Trochek.

SPEAKER_01: 23:46

Just so you know, Trochek's on a 71-point pace this year.

SPEAKER_02: 23:50

And he missed a lot of games.

SPEAKER_01: 23:52

I'm saying it's pace per game. If you Right.

SPEAKER_02: 23:54

Well, he's he's turned it up, he's turned it up recently. He was not good to start the season. He was not that great when he came back. Um, and he has he's definitely turned it up uh since then. Um, like I said, I mean I think I think that what it comes down to is what exactly you're getting. And if you're not getting a better package than Brock Nelson, then you tell these teams to go fly tight. Like to me, Minnesota. I mean, I know we're hearing a lot about Minnesota. What is Minnesota? Like, I know they're looking at this Casey Strammel guy. I don't know a lot about him. I know you brought him up. Charlie Strammel. Charlie Strammel, sorry, excuse me. See, that's how much I know about these prospects, but I've been trying to like gauge them a little bit because I don't know who these guys are. But you they don't have a first-round pick this year, which I don't know if that matters or if that doesn't matter. If is it better for them to have draft picks in different years, multiple draft picks in different years? I don't know. Um, and you know, I don't they gave up a lot of a lot of their high-end prospects to for Quint Hughes. So I don't know. Does Minnesota really is that really an option? I mean, it's K this guy Charlie Strammel. I I don't know enough about him to say is he um is he as good of a prospect as Cal Ritchie was supposedly was.

SPEAKER_01: 25:13

No, not offensively. Okay, so he's a lot like a Charlie Coyle type of player. That's what that's what he projects as.

SPEAKER_02: 25:20

And we already got this Casey Terrence guy was supposed to be a Charlie Coyle type of player at 20 years old. No, and this guy hasn't even sniffed the NHL yet.

SPEAKER_01: 25:30

No. Casey Terrence is not not an actual prospect. He's he's Casey Terrence can sit next to Burk McConnell Parker.

SPEAKER_02: 25:39

You're saying that now, but in the offseason, they freaking said this guy's gonna play in the NHL. How many guys said that? So that's why you're saying you don't you don't know what these guys are gonna do or what they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01: 25:52

The other thing that scares me with here's the other thing that scares me with Stra uh Stramel or Stra Stramel, however his name's pronounced. Um he's still uns, he's an unsigned college guy still.

SPEAKER_02: 26:04

Well, where's it go to college?

SPEAKER_01: 26:06

So you could trade for him.

SPEAKER_02: 26:08

Uh and this turned into RJ Umberger, but 2.0. You could trade for him. If the Rangers wouldn't have signed Umberger, that would have that, then that trade deadline would have that would have been one of the best guys they got in that in that trade deadline in 04. Because they got him in the Martin Ruczynski trade, and he didn't sign with the Rangers. I don't know what the hell Sada was doing, but he didn't he didn't want to sign him to whatever the contract was or whatever.

SPEAKER_01: 26:33

And Strammel's a Minnesota guy. So he's from Minnesota. I think he plays at Minnesota. And why does he want to be a good one? I don't know. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't I don't know what the deal is. Yeah, I I would be the center, he can't be the centerpiece.

SPEAKER_02: 26:47

So then, so then I don't know Minnesota's that's why I said to you, I don't know Minnesota's prospect depth to tell you, okay, well, then I want this guy. I mean, I knew Marco's the guy to go get well, yeah. I knew we knew Marco Rossi, we knew the the Zane Beam guy, what the hell his name was. We knew about him, whatever his name was. Um yeah, we knew about him, but I don't know about the other guys. You know, I don't I don't uh here's what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01: 27:17

This is my dream scenario, and it's and I think I think there's a path to it. So San Jose is the team.

SPEAKER_02: 27:26

I know we I said I was waiting for it.

SPEAKER_01: 27:28

You're waiting for it, yes, right?

SPEAKER_02: 27:30

Go.

SPEAKER_01: 27:38

You can't I hate when people make these these trades, and all they see it from is their team's perspective. Because that's to me, that's video game trading. Like, oh, I this is what I need, and I'm just gonna go, I'm gonna reach a meter that says that this trade's accepted and I'll and it'll come back, you know. Like they put it into some sort of an algorithm that approves it. What is what does San Jose need, and what do they have good a plethora of? Because that's how isn't that how trading in any walk of life is done? I have too much of this that I can't really get the most value out of, and I need this. So, how do I balance that out? Right, they need defensemen and they need experience. What they have a lot of first of all, they have one of the top five players in the league in Celebrini. So he's already arrived. This is not where they're continuing to rebuild, like they have their their guy who's got 72 fucking points in 49 games already. Like, this is not a project anymore. They have their guy, right? And Alex Wenberg is second on the team rank. What what? Alex Wembberg's second on the team ranked. Michael Risa was the second overall pick last year. Uh-huh. Alex Wenberg is second on the San Jose Sharks in scoring. They just re signed him to a to a two-year contract.

SPEAKER_02: 29:06

I saw they resigned him over. They were signed him over.

SPEAKER_01: 29:12

Yeah. So he's playing their he's playing their second line center right now. He's playing 20 minutes a night, Wenberg. I think that they're and listen, my to get Michael Misa to the Rangers, my pretty much my entire roster is available. I think if I think think of how much Trochek will get from teams. So if you put in Trochek, Schneider, and a first-round pick, our first round pick, which is going to be somewhere in the top 10. I would the only thing I would do is lottery protect that pick if it's one of the top two. If they win the lottery, so it's one of the top two picks, then they could have their choice of next year's first round pick unprotected, or the Carolina Dallas pick, which you know, take your pick, which one you want. But that's two prime things that fill two huge gaps that they have. Because then they could slot Wenberg down to their 3C. They get Trochek and all his experience and everything that he brings intangibly onto that team. And they get Schneider, who's a 24-year-old right shot defenseman, which is another thing that they need.

SPEAKER_02: 30:27

Do you really think they're going to give this kid up? I mean, that's my only thing. Is if they need if they need the center Iceman, where's he why would they? I mean, he's 19. He's 19. I know, but Wembberg's only signed for two more years. By the time this guy's ready to play full force.

SPEAKER_01: 30:42

Will Wemberg's gonna be center? Will Smith is a center that they've already moved to wing. So you're gonna move Misa to another wing when he's also a center.

SPEAKER_02: 30:53

Why wouldn't you move Wemberg to third line center now and put Misa in number two? I mean, I'm on your right now.

SPEAKER_01: 31:01

I mean, I I get that.

SPEAKER_02: 31:04

I know what you're saying, I know what you're saying, but I I think that's a pipe dream.

SPEAKER_01: 31:08

It is a pipe. Oh, I'm not saying I know what you're saying. I'm I'm I don't think they're trading him. But I don't think I don't think that I'm not especially I'm giving them another top ten pick. And I'm giving them Trochek, who we've both confirmed is worth three to four assets, and Schneider, who's worth another two to three assets. Like that's an insanely large package. When you consider what you can get for Trochek and Schneider individually in separate trades, you take all of that and you add in a top 10 pick. I don't think I'm that far off.

SPEAKER_02: 31:43

But you gotta hope that you're getting you're getting a nice package for Panarin too, because then otherwise you're not no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01: 31:49

No, but getting Misa back, that's that's a that's a franchise restart. Because he becomes your targeted number one center, you know, for the next it's it's a nice thought.

SPEAKER_02: 32:04

It's a nice thought, but I I can't see them doing that. That's like that would be like that'd be like us trading La Fournier the year after he was drafted.

SPEAKER_01: 32:13

I mean, I I don't at the time we wouldn't have done that now but trading him for the things that we needed.

SPEAKER_02: 32:20

You wouldn't have been open to that. We were not trading La Fournier. I don't care who it was. I we were not trading him or Kaco the year after they were drafted, and we didn't need wingers. We didn't need we did need wingers back then. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01: 32:35

So I'm trying, I mean high site's always 2020, but no, I and I get that, I get that, but I'm trying to think of an example. If if Buffalo had offered, by the way, Costa, what's that? Yeah, if Buffalo had offered us Jack Eichel back then for for La Ferniere, we wouldn't have done it. You and I would have done it, but I know they weren't.

SPEAKER_02: 32:54

The team wasn't why Eichel was like 23 years old. The Rangers were not doing it because I think they I don't know when what what pipe dream they because I honestly think it's just bad optics. I I think that that's the that's the biggest problem with this team, is that I think they wanted to keep these two young players as long as they could, these two young stars that they drafted high and have them be, you know, leech.

SPEAKER_01: 33:20

But they drafted Kako high and they drafted Kraftsov high. And again, these are the ones we still thought they were that they were prime prospects.

SPEAKER_02: 33:27

I know, I know I listen.

SPEAKER_01: 33:28

I know we didn't need another wing, we needed a center. So you're telling me if we could have gotten cycle, they would have been able to take it.

SPEAKER_02: 33:35

You know what, Sean? Maybe La Fronnier was off for for for Eichel. We don't know what they wanted. That's the problem. We have no idea what they wanted. It has never been come out, we've never heard, and maybe it'll be in just Chris Jury's. We need the book, we need the book, you know, and and again, nobody has been able to confirm what, and again, we're back to talk about Jack Eichel, but there's nothing else to talk about because we've been. It'll always come back to Jack Eichel because four years now, five this now, the fifth off season where our GM has failed us, and every year the team has gotten worse underneath him. Um, I don't know what they wanted. I mean, now looking back on it, I would have given them Lafreniere, would have given them Kacko, would have given Keatle, I would have given them every everyone, everyone, every one of those guys. Take them all, take the whole time.

SPEAKER_01: 34:24

I get it, I get it. But at their but I've got obviously coming off just being drafted number one overall, obviously, his his value was incredible.

SPEAKER_02: 34:34

Nobody, how many value was extremely high? Let's be fair. When was the last Bobby Carpenter?

SPEAKER_01: 34:41

Jimmy Carson.

SPEAKER_02: 34:42

I mean, maybe back then. I mean, when was the last time you saw a guy like that traded after one season? I mean, it just doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_01: 34:51

It just were you getting in return?

SPEAKER_02: 34:53

I'm not it's what you're I am not, I am not disagreeing with you. I'm not disagreeing with you, and especially that we know what we know now. I can't even fathom a world where I would say, no, no, no, no, no, we can't, we can't, we can't.

SPEAKER_01: 35:08

But you know so you're saying the same thing.

SPEAKER_02: 35:12

You want to be the GM, you want to be the GM that trades a nice that might not develop into what they need. Well, what if what if had I mean that's the problem, and that's the maybe the problem why drafting the 18-year-old isn't they should move the draft year up to 19 or 20. Because you want to be the GM that trades La Barnier that turns or that turns out to be you know the next you know, whoever, the next big star. Because I mean Eichel's a great player, but at that point, let's be honest, so San Jose hadn't proved anything at that point. He went to San Jose, excuse me, he went to Vegas and really made a name for himself. Like he was good in Buffalo, but also remember he was hurt, he was also hurt. So, I mean, again, everyone that's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01: 36:09

San Jose hasn't made the playoffs since the 1819 season.

SPEAKER_02: 36:13

Wow. So the year after we sent out our first letter. You know what I know, Sean? They're probably gonna be good.

SPEAKER_01: 36:26

So you're telling me that they're but you're telling me that there's not there's they're not looking to to get in and get out of here. Oh, they're definitely looking to get in.

SPEAKER_02: 36:37

That's why they that's why they acquired Kefer Sherwood. I'm not I'm uh they're definitely trying. But I'm not I don't know if they're going to trade a 19-year-old guy they just drafted second overall for for a 32-year-old centerman. I I don't know. You froze, by the way. You still there? Sean. Well, as per usual, as our as our show is always so vastly technology, such a technology tech technical show here. Oh, you froze for a minute, pal.

SPEAKER_01: 37:14

Yeah, no, I froze for a while. I don't I don't know if I have too much. I'm using my work laptop because it's better.

SPEAKER_02: 37:21

Well, it wouldn't be a show one of our shows if we didn't have a technical problem. So we're only doing this, we're only doing this five years, you would think. At this point, we'd be able to figure out the technical aspect of this. Still looking for a producer, still looking for a producer. Anyone out there, anyone's 18-year-old son that wants to, or 20-year-old son that wants to produce our show. Uh we're we're we're taking applications. But uh, yeah, cost credit. I know, I don't uh right. Yeah, I mean it's it's I mean hindsight, the hindsight's always the always fun to go back and revision this history, but I mean again, we are where we are. Um you know, and then we would so I mean I I don't I mean Trochek, I think is gonna get you the biggest package. I also think you're gonna get a nice package for Panarin. I I I don't think there's just gonna be one team he's gonna go to. I think there's gonna be if all you need is two teams. All you need is two teams, right? And that's it. All you need is two teams. They're gonna retain 50%. All you need is two teams, and then you just bump up against each other, and that's it. I mean, obviously it'd be great if there's more. I mean, I know Dallas, I know Dallas, they said is involved. I I mean Washington apparently, I heard Washington, and I've heard this from a lot of different things, and I've listened to everything. I heard a while I heard Washington's in, and then I also heard Washington's not in. I all, you know, I I don't I don't know about that, but it's the same teams. It's Colorado, Dallas, Washington, and Carolina. Those are the four teams I heard, and I heard like all the periphery teams.

SPEAKER_01: 39:07

Ball teams with no prospects.

SPEAKER_02: 39:09

Well, Washington's the only thing. Ball teams with no prospects. Well, usually if the team is good, I mean you're gonna get an Owen Tippett type prospect back. A guy that hasn't put it together, you know, that's probably who you're gonna get back. And first, and a first.

SPEAKER_01: 39:29

You're not you're not getting a first back. Yeah, you are. It's gonna be similar to Brad Marshan's ret return. I I don't know. You know why?

SPEAKER_02: 39:36

Because Marshall only said he was going to Florida. Marshut said he was going to Florida, and they wind up getting a first, and they wounded up getting a first from Florida because they went to the cup final. So, you know, I mean, then, you know, I mean, you kind of you kind of play chicken. I think, like I said, if you have two teams that want him. Uh that's uh that's what it's gonna come down to. And you play them against each other. I think you're gonna be surprised with the return for Panarin. I think it's gonna be better than we think.

SPEAKER_01: 40:14

I will be, because I'm not expecting anything more than a second round pick. I think it's gonna be more than that. I hope so.

SPEAKER_02: 40:21

I hope so. I mean, I think it's gonna be more than that. And Panarin's a better player than Marchand, too.

SPEAKER_01: 40:27

You know, same level, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02: 40:30

They're both they're both I don't think I don't they don't think, I don't even think even at 5.8 million, I don't think Florida can do it. So I don't even know if Florida's even an option. Um, you know, I I I think maybe Colorado, he's talking about maybe getting the extension. I don't even know like if he's a free agent, like what who's paying a 34-year-old player$11 million times six years? Is a contender doing that? No, I don't I don't think I I think if you're a contender, I I don't know if you're giving Panarin six years at 11, 10, 11 million. You know, I don't know what the Rangers offered him, but obviously it wasn't uh it was insulting, I guess, from from all accounts. But you know, I'll be I'm gonna be honest with you. Losing Panarin is going to hurt more than any guy they lost in 2018 for me. Because to me, he was your best player for seven years. I mean, he lived up to everything you would have asked for from a player, and and in a lot of places where what are you doing? Terrible feedback. Now you now you're on now. I hear you twice. Yeah, that's my fun. It's pretty cool though. It's like you have a twin.

SPEAKER_01: 42:07

I can't get the volume off on this one. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02: 42:12

Anyway, hold on, let me get the fuck out of this. Fun, fun. But uh, yeah, losing him is tough, is gonna be tough for me. Um best free agent signing, in my opinion, and and pretty it's in in New York history. Yeah, no, it's tough. I mean, I he's gave it, he gave my like I said, and my biggest issue is him with him, and I've said this a thousand times, is he is a nice player, a great player on a great team. When you're asking him to be the guy, you know, it's Marion Gabrico.

SPEAKER_01: 42:50

So isn't that similar to Marshand? They're both Hall of Famers, but neither one is like that unquestioned, uh, as Mike Francis, as Mike Francesa would say, you know, they'll get go to the Hall of Fame on roller skates type of type of guy. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, but Panera's gonna get in. Uh Marshand, I think, gets in before. I like on the list on the ranking list, I would have Marshand as a I would have him higher. Well, because he won a cup. Won a cup, his stuff with Team Canada, you know, the international player. Like, there's a lot there. I think he's more highly regarded than Panarin, regardless of Panarin's scoring.

SPEAKER_02: 43:31

Uh I don't know. I mean, I don't know, maybe because he's Canadian. I I don't, I mean, I I don't uh I don't know. If you're asking me who I who I would take. You know, Marshant, Marshand is a pain in the ass to play against. But I don't know. That's a tough, that's a tough call. I don't know. I don't I I'm I'm looking through it through Ranger colored glasses because I can't stand Marshot. But right. Um again, I think he's been a great ranger. It's sad the way it's ended. Um but that that one's gonna hurt. The way the way you felt about Rick Nash is the way I'm gonna feel about Panarin. So it's uh it's a it's a bittersweet ending, unfortunately. But we're right back where we are, we're right back where we were because they signed him. Because he el he really escalated, you know, that that rebuild that they that they put in front of them. Because I think if you just bring in Truba, you know, Truba's 25. You know, you sign him for a seven-year deal, you got him till he's 32.

SPEAKER_01: 44:37

You know, maybe I'm gonna log out and log back in. So just keep talking.

SPEAKER_02: 44:42

Sure. Maybe uh, you know, maybe you uh maybe Truba's still around when when the rebuild's over, if it lasts seven years, like it would, like it has with San Jose. It's incredible to think that San Jose hasn't made the playoffs for seven years, considering how how truly consistent they were for so long, you know, with with Thornton and with Marlowe and with all those teams, with the Vackov and and all those guys. But that's really the that's really gonna be what they're gonna team's gonna need to do. They're gonna need to find their own, you know, Joe Thornton trade type trade to bring in that star. I mean, that's the only way they're gonna be able to turn it around quickly. You know, I I mean I I we're hearing a lot of whispers about Jason Robertson. I don't know if they have the assets to get him. Um especially if they trade Schneider to San Jose or somewhere else. You know, maybe they hold on to um hold on to Schneider and maybe use him in a bigger deal. You know, I'm not trading Schneider for a first-round pick. I'm not. I'm not we did that. We did that with Brady Shea. I mean, I'm not trading Braden Schneider for a first round pick. I'm not trading a 24-year-old defenseman for a first-round pick. Um, I'm holding on to him and I'm trading him in a bigger trade. You know, again, I don't know what Dallas is looking for. I know they have cap, you know, uh restraints that they have to deal with. I I don't know. You know, maybe the Rangers go do up a sheet route. I I I don't know. I you know, everything's on the table. Everything's on the table. Yes, Mike. Panarin by far is the best free age deciding in Rangers history, if not in New York history. I mean, give me another guy that has come here and has been the leading goalscorer by a mile.

SPEAKER_03: 46:35

By a mile for seven straight years. I mean, before Panarin got here, I mean, we've had a guy.

SPEAKER_02: 46:45

I mean, I went back and looked at some of these old, these old um these old seasons where guys with points and I mean there were seasons where you had guys leading the team with 58 points.

SPEAKER_03: 46:58

I mean, and it was multiple years in a row.

SPEAKER_02: 47:03

You got a guy that came in here and put up 90 points for almost seven full seasons. I mean, obviously, there's a lot got short in the season, and and then there was a season where he um he escaped to the gulag. But every year that he's been here, he's been on pace for 90 points in a full season and led this team in scoring every single year. Give me another player. Yeah, I don't even think Messi did that.

SPEAKER_03: 47:36

We know he wasn't a leading point scorer in '94. I mean, every year for seven years? And you can argue.

SPEAKER_02: 47:47

I mean, he's one of the best rangers I've seen in my lifetime. From an offstand from an offensive standpoint, he is one of the best five rangers I've seen in my lifetime.

SPEAKER_03: 48:01

It's Messier, it's Jagger, it's Leach, Marion Gabrick, and him. That's it.

SPEAKER_02: 48:11

Just pure offense. You want to throw maybe throw Mike Gardner in there early on? That's another guy. But I mean, just guys that came here and gave you everything. Uh and especially since if you want to even go from the lockout in 03, 04, those three guys that I said Panarin, Jagger, Gabrick. Those three guys talent and offensive prowess and all of that stuff. Panarin did what he was supposed to do. They didn't surround him.

SPEAKER_03: 48:48

Like they didn't surround Gabrick. Like they didn't surround Jagger. You know, listen, Crosby's a great player. Gretzky was a great player. Lemieux was a great player. Iserman was a great player. But look at the supporting cars those guys had. It wasn't just them by themselves. You gotta surround them with other great players. You know, we want to sit here, we want to wax poetic about 94. You had Leech, you had Zubach, you had Steve Larmer, Kovalev was emerging. He had a lot of top offensive performers.

SPEAKER_02: 49:44

Panarin came here and did what he was supposed to do. The problem was they did not give him the support staff that he needed to win. And that's what it comes down to. That's the sad part, and that and that's the unfortunate part. You know, Krider's a great player, Zabinejet was a good player. Uh, you know, they go down the line. The problem was is they did not get a he needed a one-two punch. And you'd hope Zabinajet could have been that for him, but he wasn't. He wasn't, he was not up to snuff. And in this day and age, with the with you need, you do, you need to snuff to have two premier players, especially up front, and they haven't had that.

SPEAKER_01: 50:26

He was just what he had to do, did what he had to do. Sorry about the uh technical issues, everybody. I was I figured I would try my work laptop, but that would, I don't know, be better because I could use two screens a lot easier with my work laptop than my regular one. I don't know what was going on with it, but it it kept going in and out the entire show. So I I had to sign off and come back on using my regular laptop, and away we go.

SPEAKER_02: 50:58

Um, so I just gave a nice five-minute rant about Panarin and and how he was as a Ranger. Uh Lunquist was, you're right, guys. Go back and look at those those Lunquist teams. And and I mentioned it on, I was just talking about it, you know, 50. I mean, you're talking about the guys that led the team with 50 points. You know, I I I look I saw one season different era, though that Gomez, I think, led the team with 72 points.

SPEAKER_01: 51:25

Yeah, but a different era. I mean, Jamie Ben won the Art Ross.

SPEAKER_02: 51:31

Wasn't a different era though, Sean? Because Preda Bruca had a career season, he scored 30 goals as a rookie.

SPEAKER_01: 51:36

Yeah, coming on the lockout and had what 50-55 points. I'm just saying, like, I mean Jamie Ben won an art ross in like eight with 85 points or 86 points.

SPEAKER_02: 51:45

Maybe. Well, I mean, what about the Yager one? I mean, which one uh what's it called? D lander at 80 had 70 something points, right? Almost 80 points. Drop that.

SPEAKER_01: 51:54

I mean, you're talking one of the top 10 greatest players of all time, had his had his best season, and his linemates, yeah, got you know, they got theirs.

SPEAKER_02: 52:05

Well, we saw that with Panarin two years ago.

SPEAKER_01: 52:07

Right, right. No, you you're you're 100% right. It's it's a very similar situation. Um, but league wide, I mean, you know, no one's winning an Art Rush trophy with under 100 points anymore.

SPEAKER_02: 52:21

No, so you're right. I mean, I but these guys are putting up big points now, they are all scoring 100 points.

SPEAKER_01: 52:27

So I'm saying it's it's a different, it's a different era than Matt Zuccarello leading the Rangers with 55, 56 points and them going to Stephon lead them in scoring one year too. I I went back and Zook was always the one doing it.

SPEAKER_02: 52:41

You know, I went back and looked at a lot of the old uh rosters, just I don't know, I was bored one night, and I could have sworn it was like three years in a row that the leading point score had 50 points.

SPEAKER_01: 52:55

What happened? I need to make I need to make a meme. That there's that um the meme that always goes around where they show the uh the man and woman in bed, and she's like, he's probably thinking about other girls. And the guy's just like rolled up rolled on his side, and it gives like a you know a bubble of what they're really thinking about. Like for you, it's like Kelly Kisio really hit Kelly Kisio hit a post in 1989 that would have would have been.

SPEAKER_02: 53:24

I need help. I should be on a medication and injections. Um yeah, it's it's terrible. But no, I it's uh it's really it. Uh our young players never improve as time goes on. Why? Your guess is as good as mine, Patty. I don't have any idea. And you know what though? It's not it's not the young defensemen and the young goaltenders, it's the forwards that are the problem.

SPEAKER_01: 53:57

How much pressure is there for these kids? Forwards come in first. Here's two things the forwards have come in much younger than the defensemen. I mean, Ryan McDonough and and others played a couple years in college, didn't come here until they were 20, 21, 22. Delzado did. Delzado came at 19, and look at our and how look at how we flamed out. Yeah, well, we still played 15 years in the league. Retired at 30 retired at 33. Really felt like longer than that. He um I'm just saying in general, though, the forwards have come here younger, and they're thrust into position. See, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. They're thrust into positions where they feel they have to score right away, like Chris Kreider, who came up at 20, and it took him some time. Or they put they bury him on a third line like uh you know, Kaco, and they just and they don't develop. So is New York City the place for kids? It was Eric Stefan, but that was the the the the 48-game season. He still had 44 points. I remember the conversation, a legitimate conversation about him and Tavares. Who was better? Um, I'm sorry I interrupted you. Yeah. Um, is New York the place to develop young kids? Well, they're gonna have to figure something out. Vegas learned it's not, you know, young kids developing in Vegas. That's not something they even want to entertain, they trade them all.

SPEAKER_02: 55:24

Zuccarello, you you whoever whoever said that he did lead the team in points three straight seasons with fifth points.

SPEAKER_01: 55:31

They were all carbon copy seasons.

SPEAKER_02: 55:33

Yeah, Rick Nash led them one year, he had 69. You like that? My boy. Uh Mika 1819. That was his that was his breakout year. Uh Mika, I was just looking at Mika. Uh he put up so he was 24 when he came to the Rangers or 23? He was or 22. How long? 23. 23. So his first season with the range, he only put up 37 points at a 23-year-old. You broke it. He did not break out. I know. And then his next season he put up 47, which was the right was the year they gave they sent out the letter. Right. So Kev uh Zuccarello led the team in scoring with 53 points. Third on the second was was Zabinajet. Third was uh Hayes. So they did have Hayes. So they did have Kevin Hayes, who was a younger player. They did have Buchnevich, they had JT Miller, who they wounded up trading. They traded Gabrick. They did have BC, who was still young at the time. So this is what I was trying to say to you before, where I said, Well, I think they were in better shape. I agree with you. Okay, I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure if uh if we were on the same page. They did have David Darnay. They're only at 28 points. Well, I well, I I still remember they had Neil Piang, too. I'm saying they had they had a much better team then than they do now. They should be rebuilding now, not retooling.

SPEAKER_01: 57:00

Well, I made I still remember making the argument back then when I had my uh my solo, my solo show back in the day. It was during when the letter, you know, when the letter came out. And I said back then I couldn't understand the average age of their of their core players was like 24 years old. Why why would you issue a letter and rebuild when everyone's still in their 20s?

SPEAKER_02: 57:27

The only thing I could think of, and I and I thought about this because I I thought you might bring this up again, was maybe they put out the word rebuild. Because who knew if Panera was gonna fall in their laps? Let's be fair, Sean. If Panarin doesn't fall in their laps, if if Panarin goes to Colorado or goes to the Islanders, we're talking about a totally different history.

SPEAKER_01: 57:49

I think it I think it had I think the letter had a lot to do with the rationale and setting the expectations for the fan base that they were gonna move on from Zuccarello and McDonough.

SPEAKER_02: 58:00

But they didn't move on from move on from Zuccarello to the following. Yeah, the next year. Right. They did move on from McDonough, which I think they forced that trade. And I will go down in my life that I think they forced they forced that trade. They should have held on to him for one more year.

SPEAKER_01: 58:14

They were petrified he was never gonna recover from the shoulder injury. He's still fucking playing eight years later.

SPEAKER_02: 58:19

Yeah, unbelievable. Are you surprised? I I mean the guy was a freaking physical specimen, right? Do you really think he wasn't still going to be playing?

SPEAKER_01: 58:29

This is it to a less to a lesser extent, it was Brad Park all over again. You traded a guy who should have been a 15-year thousand-game defenseman for you, and you traded him too early. Yeah, and and you got nothing back, and you traded Miller along with it's it it really goes down as one of the things.

SPEAKER_02: 58:49

They had a lot of guys still here. They required Ryan Spooner, they got him in the trade, so they got another young player.

SPEAKER_01: 58:56

Um yeah, they had Miller, Mika, and Hayes. You had you had three traded at the same. I'm saying go when the when the letter was issued, you had three young centers that you could have you were set up. You were set up. It's to me, it was Jeff Gordon coming in and wanting to put his stamp on the team. The same way Drury's doing now is Drury Praise, he's gotten praise and criticism with a group of guys that were for the most part not his. They were Gordon, they were a team that Gordon built 100%. So it's now time for Drury.

SPEAKER_02: 59:40

Well, how many of the guys let's be fair, how many of the guys did Gordon bring in from that were Sathers guys? I mean, did he get rid of that was Sathers guys? Nash, right? Nash is a Sether guy. You know, I mean, a lot of the guys that Gordon wanted to is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01: 59:56

I'm saying Gordon that the day he got the job, he was all right. Let's rebuild this. He got the job two days later. He traded Bursard for Zabenijjad. Not two days later, but you know what I mean? Like that was he he moved right away to get the ball rolling and turn the roster over.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:14

Jeff Gordon do his and do his thing. Jeff Gordon. Chris Drury isn't a speck on Jeff Gordon's rear end as far as as good of a GM as Jeff Gordon was. Well, let's Jeff Gordon is a much better general manager. Chris Drury's been here five years. Give me the in give me the trade that Chris Drury has made that has set has pushed this team forward. No, there isn't one. There isn't one. Now name me the trades that have set the team back.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:46

Really just Bush Nevich. What other trades set them back?

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:48

How about Patrick Nevet trading him to signing him and then fucking trading him for two second-round picks? Yeah, second round. Which are still this year.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:55

I get that. I'm that doesn't bother me. That bothers you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:59

It bothers me, Sean, because that's that's capital. That's assets, wasted assets.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:03

Wasted every single team and every single professional sport robs Peter to PayPal. And that's what that was.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:12

It's all these how about Riley Smith last year? So that was a stupid signing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:16

Didn't they get a third round pick for him?

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:18

Yeah, which they then traded for Carson for a year and a half sushi.

unknown: 1:01:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:22

Let's see what they get for Susie when they trade.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:24

Let's see what they get for Susie. I I it this is all that this part is the all complaining for nothing part. This is this is this is not my point is the problem.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:34

My point is is done nothing to to move this team forward.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:39

I get that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:40

Everything that was done was done before he got here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:43

Jeff Gordon's drafting was horrific. Horrific. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:50

Has jury has jury's been better.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:52

We don't know yet. The jury is still out. But jury hasn't had a top ten pick. And how many did did Gordon have? Five. Yeah. All right, so that's given that. Yeah. Othman is the highest.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:11

I mean, he did trade up to get Keandre Miller. He did get trade up to get Keandre Miller, which they were able to turn around and and and uh and move.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:19

That was a hell of a trade for Drury, no? We'll see. We'll see what Brandon Morrow turns into. I get that, but Scott Morrow, excuse me. Scott Brandon Morrow, but also got but he got the first and second round pick, and he turned around and used that money to sign Gavrikov, who's been excellent. But is Gavrakov?

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:36

How does Gavrakov help them now if this team is fucking rebuilding?

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:40

But that's why it's a retool, my friend. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:44

Sean, they're going to have to. And I let's see what you didn't hear this one.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:49

Let's see what the trades yield.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:50

You're absolutely right. But I can only see what I've seen so far. The only way, the only way this team turns it around quickly is if a superstar falls into their lap. That is the only way.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:04

But I think the only way. I like I've said from day one when we started talking about before the letter, when we started talking about them moving on from guys, I said, you gotta start what he needs to do is target the 21 to 23 year olds that are blocked. That teams don't want that their due raises, and teams can't use them. They can't they can't fit them into their plans, and that's who you have to go after. You uh trading Trochek and somebody what you would would you offersheet somebody? No, I'd be that's who I would be trading Trochek and Schneider for.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:41

Is I'd be trading them for those types of guys. See, now I said, now this is my opinion, is that I don't know what Jason Robertson what's gonna happen with him. He wants 12 million dollars the way Miko Ranton and okay. I can get I can wrap my head around that, right? I see, I would want to see if see with the I wouldn't trade Schneider, I would use Schneider in a bigger, bigger trade than Robertson for Robertson. Oh, you trade him for Robertson, yes, in a trade for Robertson. That's what I'm saying. But I'm not trading Schneider for a first round pick. No, I don't want for I don't want picks. Okay, I just but I we've traded, we've had we traded Keandre Miller for a first round pick, we traded Brady Shea for a first round pick. It's it's been the way this kind of has gone where we haven't signed, wanted to sign, or we wanted to get rid of this young defenseman, and we just dump him for a first round pick. Well, that seems to be the way it's gone.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:33

They traded Miller, they wanted that first round pick so that they would have that asset to add the deadline this year. That was their plan. Their plan was not this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:42

Well, their plan was to sign to trade for Kim for sure in six three weeks.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:47

Well, that's my point. Their plan was not to write a letter this year, they thought that they were gonna be a contender.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:52

I mean, they were delusional, they weren't delusional. Come on, please, they were not good, they were not good, they weren't good last year. Why would they be any better? Explain, give me an example of why in your God's name would you think this team was gonna be better than they were last year? Because Connor Sheary or Brendan Offman or Taylor Radish, you took Cryder off the team, you lost 30 goals, and you added nothing. You added a 15-goal score in Taylor Raddish, maybe I don't even know if he had 15 goals. Then you have you have question mark after question mark after question mark. And the only one that that came to fruition this year that actually played well better than he did last year was Abinad. Everyone else has been has been worse than they were last year. Everyone, nobody's been better. Even Edstrom, who I love, can't stay he can't stay on the ice. Rempi's been worse. Everybody, Schneider's been worse. Everybody, every guy that was on this team last year has gotten worse, except for Sabinach, which is shocking because every person he loved was traded away, and he got better. So explain that. God bless him. I'll tell you, he's shown me a lot this year. He really has. I will give him, I was all over him last year. But all things that he's gone through, he has given you everything he possibly you could possibly have asked for this year. I but everyone else has failed. Panarin, I guess, hasn't failed. He's he's what he is. I mean, he hasn't gotten, he's not a hundred-point Panarin, he's where he is, 90 points. He hasn't gotten better, he hasn't gotten worse. Right. He's right where he normally has been or where he was last year. But to sit here and look at this team objectively and say they're a good team. I I mean, Cooley's regressed. La Breniere, it's possible for La Brenière to get any worse than he was last year. It's possible. I just, I just, I don't know. I mean, I I love your optimism, but I just don't see what what you see. I never saw it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:06

This team this year has played 11 games where Panarin, Trochek, Miller, and Shisterkin were all in the lineup together, and they were seven and four in those 11 games. That's 104-point pace. This the when you think about this season, it's how many games they couldn't score two goals in, right? That they lost, right? Whose fault is that? But they were missing guys that every someone was always out of the line.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:31

I mean, I know they missed Trochekeeping. Yeah, but are you depending on Trochek to score 35-40 goals for you? He's uh he's a 70-point player again this year.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:40

We have one 70-point season. This year's, but this year he's playing at that pace. This year, so you had that guy out of your lineup. That's huge. Your second line centers out of the lineup, which made everyone have to move.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:53

That kills you, especially when again Sean, if you only need one goal. If you can't win without one guy missing, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:04

And then he goes out. Miller is out now. Miller was so you so hold on. You started the season now. I'll tell I'll give you Fox. I mean, Fox is the biggest lynchman. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You started the season without Trojek and with a Miller who missed all the training camp and clearly wasn't himself to start the season the first 10-15 games. Okay, so that's really even though one was in the lineup, you're really missing two.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:28

They're probably better than what they are, but they're still not a good team, they're still not a cup team.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:35

But then when the mental part of it comes in, when again it's human nature, you lose that you get shut out at home that many times. Because when they went on the road, they they dude, they weren't they had the best road record in the league.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:48

They still have a great road record, they're 16 and 11. Right above 500, and that's five points, five games above 500 on the road, and they're the worst team in the Eastern Conference, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:00

But that's my point.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:02

But the problem is there's a lot of mental problems with this team, right? And that's to me, that's the that's where the cleansing needs to come.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:08

And and and again, I know you're that's where my optimism comes from, is they're capable because they show it on in all the road games, they show you that they're very good, and that's another reason why this Fakakta fucking Olympics thing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:20

Because don't tell me that a lot of ways that JT Miller wasn't playing fucking hurt this year because he needed to be on the fucking Olympic team. Probably.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:28

It's probably you're you're I don't I don't think you're wrong about that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:31

I mean, give me a fucking break with this stupid fucking Olympics. I'm not watching one minute of it, I'm boycotting it. Not watching one fucking second of this Olympics.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:42

This is Rock's No Kings protest.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:45

Ah, dude, I'm just I gotta be worried about the fucking Olympics.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:50

No gold medals, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:51

You and I shell out thousands of dollars in Ranger season tickets. I gotta worry about the fucking Olympics. Yep. Get the fuck out of here with this fucking Olympic bullshit. Let the fucking amateurs go back to playing. I I I I just like I said, I mean, maybe if but the problem was the salary cap. I mean, you want to sit here. I don't want to, I'm I'm I'm bitching about trading Crider, but you had no choice. I mean, the problem was is that they took out Miller out and they replaced him with Gavrikov, but they did not replace Chris Kreider. They did like they did the sign of the cross and prayed, prayed to the heavens that either Kana Shiri, Brandon Oppman, or Brett Burard was gonna score 40 goals this year. Or a combination of that. That's my friend Nick.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:38

Very good goalie. Very good goalie. That's funny. He just we just linked up on on Facebook the other day. He's a real estate guy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:45

He is, yes, he is. He is. Uh, he was uh one of our goaltenders when we won our championship uh for Kellenberg.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:51

Oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:52

Very good, very good, very good goalie. And he'll tell tell him, yeah, ask him, he'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:56

He'll tell me. All right, he's one of those, he's one of those guys.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:58

Yeah. Oh god. So uh we went to high school together. So um uh yeah, it's just uh it's just frustrating. It's like every every year you think you think this is the year. We're right back to where we were. We're at square one again, and you know, that's where we are. It's it's frustrating.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:19

The wagon circle. Oh, you had a wrist shot, huh? I did. I did.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:31

I had a Peter Nedvet esque wrist shot.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:35

That's the that's that's the that was the when I had my uh adductor torn adductor last April. That's that's the thing that left me. My wrist shot has never come back. I have no torque. Really? Slap shot is fine, skating's fine. I body weight stuff. My wrist shot, I just I can't transfer the way I used to. Dude, God bless you for still being able to play.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:55

I mean, I got on the ice with the girls in uh in Lake Placid, and I'm I'm a little bit heavier than I should be right now, or I was. I I've actually lost weight since then. I've lost almost 10 pounds. Nice. But uh the holidays are always brutal for me. Uh it was hard moving, like like just shifting from side to side, and that's really my biggest problem now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:18

Is the is the shifting from side to side. It's everything else I'm fine with. It's the it's the stopping and starting, and you know, moving from from from one side to the other, but God bless you if you're still not able to play.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:32

I'll tell you because we had a break from the two days before Christmas. I think the 20, like 23rd or 22nd was our last game, and then didn't have a game until January 14th. Having that long of a break. Oh, yeah, I forgot it. And then playing three nights in a row.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:56

I go to PT for my back still. Yeah, and I was I got up to almost a two-minute plank. I didn't go to PT for three weeks between me being sick, the kids being sick, Christmas, all the other stuff. I'm back down to a minute 20. I go, I I I just haven't been here for for three weeks, and I've I lost almost a minute off of off of my plank. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:18

Sneakers or no sneakers on the plank.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:20

Sneakers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:21

See, I could do it plank, I could do a plank forever with sneakers. Take sneakers off. Fuck, I'm gassed after like almost 50 sneakers. So different because your your feet are sliding unless you're really oh, yeah, yeah, that's true. I didn't think of that. That's a good point. Sneakers is like putting your feet against the wall almost.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:39

Yeah, well, it's not totally like that, but yeah, I got it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:43

This is definitely the content people have tuned into here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:46

Well, listen, how many times 45-year-old fat guys doing just yelling yelling about Panarin and Lafreniere and Kaco or or Philip Heedle, or how many times do you want to hear us talk about that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:57

I don't know. Maybe maybe Love could do some planks. What's fine find out what what his plan is red faced after every shift?

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:04

I mean, that means the most out-of-shape 24-year-old I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:08

It's still it's so aggravating because you see the signs, you see him do things, and you see him have games where he's just he's the best player on the ice, and then he disappears for 10 days. I'll tell you that winner classic, Sean.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:19

I mean, I I you you I mean, we both watched it, right? He was fantastic in that, and you know, and then he was even great the next game. I believe it was the next game that they played. I thought he was decent. That was against Buffalo. He had the puck. The winner classic hit him and Mika.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:37

Yeah, Mika was fire. But La Frenier had the puck. He had the puck the whole night. They couldn't take it from him. He had his head up. I mean, three primary assists. Yeah, no, he was good. And it wasn't a primary assist where he just took a shot and it bounced off somewhere.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:51

That's that's see, that's what that's what I think will keep teams interested. Because you see it is that you've seen glimpses.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:02

But who knows? I mean that's why I don't want to get that's I really unless somebody might not trade him.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:08

They might not, they might not trade him. I mean, the only way I think they will would trade him is in a bigger trade. You know, maybe I don't like I said, I don't know. I don't know what I don't I know Dallas's salary cap situation's rough, but I don't know what's going on with Sagan. I mean, he might be done. Who knows? I mean, but all these guys out for the year, isn't he, Sagan? Well, for the year, but I don't know if he's signed for next year or not. Um, but I mean, do you trade? Would you trade La Frenier and Schneider for for Robertson? Yeah. I I think I would too.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:43

Because Robertson's just proven to his score 40 goals.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:46

I also think, in a lot of ways, and as as bad as this is to say, I think you kind of need to just clean house. I think you almost need to start over in a lot of ways, and and and start fresh with a different mindset. You know, I I remember years ago, uh Taylor Hall talked about that when Edmonton was was bad and they just was losing and losing and losing. That after a while you get that loser mentality, you get that loser image in your brain that you just you can't get out of it, and especially as you for young guys, you kind of lose your way a little bit. I I just think this team needs to be cleansed, and and and it and and you can only get rid of a certain people, you know. Try to get as many rid of as many guys as you can. As long as you're getting value, then you gotta do what you gotta do. Sagan has one more year.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:41

Lafernier has this is his sixth year, right? Four of them have been contending teams, so I don't think that he would also have four coaches. That's fine, but I'm saying he's been in more playoff on more playoff teams than not.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:58

But there's no consistency. I mean, Quinn's there, then he's gone. Glant's here, he's gone. Love you let's here is gone. Sullivan's here. I mean, and then you know, and then this guy's gone, and this guy's traded. There's no that's the NHL. There's no consistent. Is it, but is it though? Yeah, coaching terrorists.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:15

Tampa, again, you want you want to talk about the model franchises, it's different. We're not there yet.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:22

These roll Stanley Cup champions teams, but Colorado, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:25

Um, Vegas Vegas is changing changes coaches like they changed on the fans. Do they though? Not recently. They had the boer, right? And they had what's his name? Uh the boars already two uh but who's the coach? Butch Cassidy, yeah. Yeah, who did they have before Cassidy? It didn't go from the board to Cassidy, there was someone else. I can't remember who, but did they? Oh, wasn't uh what's his name? Didn't wasn't McClellan their coach for a year? Todd McClellan? Or that was the no, it was the L that was the Kings.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:56

The Kings. McClellan's the key, the coach in Edmonton now, right? Yeah, talk about being through a thousand coaches. I but I guess that's the way it is in a lot of ways. You got yeah, you can't fire the players, you have to fire the coach. Like I always a new coach every two years is ridiculous, though. I mean that that's just that's just ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:14

Because this is gonna bother me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:16

And La Bellette, for everyone wants to blame him.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:20

Oh, they did go from it went straight from the board to Cassidy. I think Gerard Kalant.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:25

Yeah, he got them to a cup final. Yeah, it's so funny though, because I'll tell you right now, we've already seen Quinn only got one other job since the Rangers. He probably will never be a head coach again. I don't think Galant's Galant had a heart attack. You heard that. I don't know if you heard that. He's having some heart complications, so he left the team in China.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:45

Yeah, China.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:46

Yeah, he left them. He's he's not he's he's not coming back, and then I don't think you're gonna see Laviolette coach again. I mean, the Rangers literally killed three coaches, like metaphorically, he's killed three coaches.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:57

If the Rangers didn't hire Lobby Let, I don't I don't think anyone was giving Lobia Lette another job other than the Rangers when we hired him. I think he was done.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:07

I think he was done at that point, too. Yeah, I mean, how many teams? I mean, he's had a nice career. That's a great career.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:13

I mean, like I I think Quinn will get another shot.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:17

He'll get another shot for another rebuilding team.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:19

But that's the thing. I wouldn't hire him to do that. If you're gonna hire him, hire him. Don't just make him the next uh you know he was set up to fail in that situation.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:33

Like I said, and I know you're not a Quinn guy, but I saw five, maybe even six players have career years under Quinn. And I'm telling you now, maybe that that that pandemic doesn't happen. They're making the playoffs that year. And they're probably adding somebody. I don't know who that would have been. I don't know if Sam Bennett name came popping around. That that's a mistake. They should have acquired him. That was a Big mistake that they never got.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:01

No, Sam Bennett was the next year. Oh, was it? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:03

It was when uh I'm just still saying that they they they another another missed opportunity for a guy that they should have acquired. Yeah. I would love to know. I don't know if you remember this. I remember when Jeff Gordon got fired. They didn't make a trade at the trade deadline. And I remember um what's his name? Dolan was pissed. And they did he did say that they were close to making a hockey trade. I would love to know who they were thinking about for that trade deadline.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:35

Get Brooks. Get Brooks on the phone. Yeah, wish what a Ouija board. Man, how much has he missed right now?

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:45

Oh my god, it's not even funny. It's not even funny. It's not even funny because I'll tell you right now, like I said, it is nothing. It you just get nothing out, and and and let's be fair. I mean, the stuff you're getting, even out of the out of the other media, out of the Canada, it's not it's very superficial. Right. There's really nothing. I mean, maybe we'll get more the closer we get to the trade deadline, but it's a lot of hearsay and it's a lot of you know guessing. Um, you know, Larry knew, and and I and I knew it, I I said it, and and that's I that was part of the reason why I would because I used to, especially this time of year, the slapshot column, Sean, on the weekend was must read because you got some kind of tidbit or used to get something of of substance of something someone they're targeting, someone they might be trading, something you get nothing now. It's all you know, guessing. Right. But it is what it is. So I guess we'll see. I I like I said, you said before, I don't think they make a trade before the trade. I think everything's done after the Olympics. That's my gut. I'll forget that. I just think I just think Jerry's too much of a coward. I think he's gonna need to he's gonna need to feel like a thousand offers. He's gonna he's gonna wait and wait. That's what he does. He waits, he waits, he waits, he waits, he waits, he waits. That's what he does. All he does is wait. Until the play until players are worthless.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:16

Well, that's my fear is Trochek getting hurt in the Olympics. Well, maybe Sullivan won't play him. Well, see, here's the good thing with Trochek is they don't have to trade him. They don't have to trade him. That's the thing. So you can wait till the offs. Like it, I don't want to I don't want to overreact if some of these guys aren't moved by the deadline, and this and a lot of the action is done in June and July. Like, there's no reason to overreact on that. Yeah, I guess. No, Susie will be moved. We know that. The UFAs will be moved. Well, the two guys, right? No, no one's taking Johnny Brodzinski. But if they don't move Schneider, if they don't move LaFernier, if they don't move um Chocek, and then they wait until the offseason, what's what's the difference to us? I would like to see them move because it makes us it'll help us lose more games, in my opinion. Oh, you're right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:13

Oh, you're right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:14

You're right. I don't want to chance at the time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:17

Sean, how bad it will they? I mean, they're losing games now. Yeah, you're telling me they trade Panarin tomorrow. How much worse? I mean, how I mean they're gonna sink like stones. Yeah, with no Fox and no Panarin, that power play will never score another goal the rest of this rest of the season.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:37

Still go 0 for 50, just bump La Farnera. Oh god, he's terrible. Gotta give him the gotta give him that PP time. He's been so good. I think Carl Hatton's been better on the power play. Oh my god, remember how bad he was.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:52

Remember Torterella?

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:53

No, the other one's low. Um, oh, who's the other guy? Grapner. They used to scream for the god, yes. He can't play on the power play.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:01

I don't think he'll though. Woo! He was money, that guy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:04

Yeah, he needs 200 feet of clean ice.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:07

That would talk about a great. I mean, say, there got a lot of criticism for bad free agent signings. That might be one of his best.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:13

Grapner was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:14

Another guy that freaking career got re-resurrected, huh? And got a huge contract leaving here. What do you have? Two straight 20-goal seasons after like scoring like 12. No, didn't he have he scored a big had a big season with the Islanders? I think he scored 30. And then he went to Toronto, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:32

Bigger? Didn't he have a 30-goal season for us? I thought it was 29. 29-30. I was I wasn't, I don't know if he scores two seasons with us.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:48

And where did he go with when he left? What was his next best season? I don't think he lasted that contract. I think they I think they bought him out. Nine. Nine.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:57

He scored two goals with the Devils in 21 games after we traded him there. Right. And then uh nine goals in 41 games for Arizona, eight goals in 46 games for Arizona. And then COVID happened, and he never came back to North America.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:13

That was it. He got paid though.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:18

Crazy. Crazy, yeah. We played him in the perfect role.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:23

Yeah, I mean, they got him at the right time. I mean, he just fit. He just there were guys, and and like I said, I mean, there's just guys that fit. I mean, look at VC. I mean, VC was kind of like on the scrap heap. I mean, and he came here and he filled a need, he filled a role. He was great for us for the three years he was here. Fortunately, and he got hurt. He got hurt to end the season, and then he got hurt to start the season. Right, he never got his footing again, and that was kind of it. But VC with the with us, he was great. No, he wasn't he wasn't a 30 goal scorer.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:54

Make him a GM.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:56

Yeah, God, I'll take anyone.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:58

Can we talk really quick? Because this is all right. So I got two things. I got two things that have been bothering me from what I see people talking about. I know what one of them is. Yeah, we talked about it today. Yeah, why does anyone in the world think and I I think it's lazy when people do this? I'll preface it with this. I think it's lazy because a lot of people who post shit, and listen, I don't know everyone's front offices to start saying, Oh, I think this guy will be a good GM and this guy would be, you know, this assistant over here, that guy's gonna be great. I'm not in hockey circles like that where I would know, so that's why I just don't offer an opinion, right? But these people who come out and saying, fire jury and then bring in Brendan Shanahan. Why did anyone do less with more? I mean, he was handed, talk about being handed the keys to a Ferrari. President, he oversaw everything. He could have he hired the GM. And when things and when things weren't going the way they should, he could have moved on from the GM or said, no, no, enough of this pussy bullshit. We can't beat Boston, we can't beat Florida, we can't beat these teams because we're not heavy enough, and you're not bringing on the right types of players, or you're loading up way too much on one end of the on one end and not taking care of the back end, right? Not addressing the goaltending. Like that was a shit show. You got Austin Matthews, Marner, Neilander, you signed to you, you signed to Barrett. Well, Riley's all right, he's a little overrated, in my opinion, but nice player. Nice player, Jake Musin. But you had all these guys that you drafted that were drafted by sorry, that were drafted by Lou, and then he comes in, you know, Shanahan comes in, and he couldn't win a playoff series with these guys. And that's who you want to replace Drury with. To me, he's the exact same thing as Drury. Another disgruntled ex-ranger who was pissed off the.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:58

I have to see. I have to see what I have to look, I have to look to see what the years he was there, and then what their cap situation was when he got there, and also the trade, the moves that were made, the trades that were made.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:14

I'm a little set that up perfectly.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:17

Okay. I still need to know who the guys were, who they made trades for, who they brought in to help better this club. Because you know what? I will take a GM or president, and I'm not saying I want Shanahan or not. I'm not, I'm not, I can't give you an honest opinion. I need to, I need to do more a dive on it, but I want a guy that that I rather have a guy come in and have balls and make moves and make trades and and try to do things than a guy that stands on his head and is on his hands, sits on his hands, and is afraid to move anybody or trade anyone unless it's a complete win or if it's uh for a draft pick. Right. And we've seen Ron Francis did it for years, and he got his second job, he still went to carry to the Kraken.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:06

I want nothing to do with Brendan Shanahan. I'm not saying I have the answer of who I wouldn't even know, Sean.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:14

I wouldn't put it past Dolan if he fired Drury tomorrow, if Glenn Sather came back.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:18

I'd be all right with that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:20

And the 80-something-year-old Glenn Sather?

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:22

I'd be totally fine with that. I would put it past Sabre Lamarello in. What does it matter how old he is? He does he need to lift a box. Everything will be done remotely these days.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:34

We've seen what happened when we've had an absent like a president that that didn't have all his marbles. You're gonna bring it to GM.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:40

Oh, I think every oh I think I'd be shocked if Sayther isn't sharper's attack still.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:45

No, he probably is, but I I mean I wouldn't put it past Sayther, I wouldn't put it past uh Dolan to say, all right, uh Drury sucks. I was wrong, but Dolan won't. I mean, he's he's gonna ride this out until I mean till until he has no choice. He just gave him an extension. Well, he gave an extension later. It's only a two-year extension, though. Still. I don't Drury's got two years. He's got he's got two, he's got not counting this year, he's got next year, the year after. I'm telling you right now, Sean, if this I mean, you're how many years they're gonna go without making the playoffs. Say that team goes four years without making the playoffs. You're keeping this guy around. No, no, that won't happen. I'm saying that won't happen at the end. Only way, the only way he stays is if somehow a star lands in their lap and they make the playoffs. Same thing with Panarin. And I'm telling you, I don't know if I don't know if Dolan gets, I don't know if Gordon gets fired if if the whole Tom Wilson thing doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30:41

Um, I think that it was take, I think the fact that they still weren't a playoff team and it was taking too long was the problem. Because remember when when JD took the job and his opening press conference when when Davidson came in, and he said, This is it's gonna get done, but it's gonna still it's going to take some time. And this was after Gordon had already started. Like the letter was already written before JD got here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:05

No, it was so the summer. The summer Davidson came in was the summer they they they made all the signings. It was Panarin, Davidson was first, then Panarin, then Truba, then right or Truba, then Panarin files.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:18

The letter was already out there, the the rebuild was already announced, and then they brought in JD. So Gordon had already started making moves and you know, acquiring draft picks and drafting these kids in the first round. And when Davidson came in, he still said this is going to take this is going to take time, but we're going to do it right. And then they signed Panarin to make the trade for true. But like you said, this was not a quick turnaround in their eyes, and Dolan got impatient. And that's and Drury got to Dolan. They called it a coup on on national radio yesterday, uh, during the week. Yeah, I heard that was it uh what's his name? Mike Sul Mike Sullivan. Called it a coup. Not Mike Sullivan, uh, Mike Johnson. Well, Mike Johnson. Yeah, Mike Johnson.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:04

I I from what I understand, and again, this is just what I think. I think it was the Tom Wilson situation. Dolan put out the statement, and then Gordon and Davidson didn't back up Dolan, and uh Davidson won and Gordon fired. Don't Davidson said no, so Dolan fired both of them.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:28

Gordon was getting fired at the end of that season. I don't think so. Drury was taking the Pittsburgh job. He was offered the Pittsburgh job.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:36

And they made Drury the the associate GM.

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:40

Right, with the understanding that he was gonna take over for Gordon at the end of the year, they weren't gonna make the firing during the year. JD wasn't gonna get fired. That's not what I heard.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:51

That's not what I heard. Go back and look, go back and do some digging. I I'm pretty sure that it was because they separated themselves. JD, well, Gordon put out the statement that they didn't have anything to do with that statement. And then I think Dolan got pissed, told JD to fire Gordon. Oh, yeah, no, that's all that's all accurate. And then Gordon said JD said no, I'm not firing him. Right, and they both got fired.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:18

Right. No, I I agree with everything you just said, but I'm saying in Dolan's mind, I think the decision to oh me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:25

Oh, well, oh well, I don't I can't I think it was only what I know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:28

Yeah, I think there was an under-the-table agreement already made with Drury.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:32

Because the how how bad, I mean, how bad does fucking I mean, how great does Gordon look?

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:38

I mean, there's only 30 stuff in Montreal. There's only th at that time, there's only 31 GM jobs in the league. You know, Seattle wasn't a team yet, right? Were they five years ago? Yeah. All right, either way. So it's either there's 31, 32 jobs in in the league. Drury wasn't passing up to go. Sullivan was the coach. He had Crosby still there, and Crosby's still doing great. So this is five years ago, Crosby. I wish he went to Pittsburgh. Gosh, do you know what I mean? Like, there's no way he passed up that job unless he was told the job's yours here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:13

Unless, unless unless Dolan gave Drury more money to stay in New York and be the associate GM.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34:19

But who's who's who wants to be an associate GM when you're when you're offered a GM job? I guess. And it wasn't like he was offered a GM job in Siberia, it was Pittsburgh. I wish he would have gone.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:34

I mean, that had to be I mean that to me that means that means say there have definitely because do you think really think James Dolan has knows any? I mean, other than Drew Dre being the captain of the Rangers, you think that has any knowledge of what Chris Drury does unless he's just Droy's kissing his ass. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34:51

Drury got to him. Bootlicker, even worse, hate him even more. That's just that's God. I can't fucking stand when you think of yeah, when you think of the fact that it's it's been out there that he's not part of the old boys club of GMs. You know, it's it's probably a big a big reason. He's not well liked. So he's got Greer who likes him.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:13

Great. Well, he's got Greer, you know, he's got his he's got his guys that he trades with.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:18

Right. But it's not a it's not a wide casting. Then I'm surprised that they made a trade with Carolina. I'm surprised that that I'm surprised that went down. Because Waddell seems to be a guy who's one of the uh old boys' club guys, yeah. The guy will always have have employment in the NHL. Oh my god, he was a freaking threshold GM.

SPEAKER_02: 1:35:38

Yeah, that's nuts. He gets your friends. Yeah, is it Columbus? I don't know. What was the other thing? The Shanahan thing, what was the other thing?

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:49

Oh the other one is can we talk about how little significance these guys have in on ice training when it comes to um Jed Ortmeyer and West? Can we stop? They're not their titles player development, but that's it's teaching kids to be professionals. It's taking college kids that have never that have never what do we do now? How do we how do we become professionals off the ice? That's what the their mentors. Guys are not struggling on the power play because of Jed Ortmeyer.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:26

I get I get the optics of it, and I think that's what people see. Plain simple, Sean. I I just think that that's that's what they see. What is it? Ricky, they see Ortmeyer. Well, they see Ort Meyer, they see Tanner Glass, they see Steve Aminger as a prep professional scout, they see Ryan Cloh, they see failure, failure, failure, failure, failure. That's what they see. Mark Stall and Failure. I mean, again, I know, but I no, I but I think that they're just bringing back I mean Blake Wheeler has a fucking job in the organization. Fine. So what's wrong with that? It's great. Long-time professional. I mean, but what are we doing though? I mean, are we I mean are there other teams that have something different? I don't know. I don't know what other teams do. I just I just know that that's the optics on it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37:14

But all that that job is, like I said, is just it's you're that they're the eyes in the sky that as far as their development, they're not the ones on the ice developing kids. They're seeing they're almost like in internally scouting what someone needs, right? And then working with the coaches to help with that, and again, mentor they're mentors, they're off-ice mentors.

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:44

Whatever. I honestly I don't I'm not I don't put that much, I don't really care. It's fresh. I'm just saying a lot of bad optics about it, and that that's really what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37:56

Where's their Jed Ortmeyer hate? I get the Tanner Glass shit because people hated Tanner Glass because he played over Bush Nevich in a playoff game. I just think people are looking for someone to blame. But was or am I am I misremembering? Was Ortmeyer not liked by the fans?

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:11

I think I I I liked him. I think you know he was he was another one of those guys that was on that 2003-2004 team.

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:19

But he was like on his way to you know, probably wearing a letter at some point before his his injury happened. Well, they didn't they trade him or they could be his back was fucked up. Uh degenerative, like uh degenerate back issue or something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:33

Yeah, I don't know. I don't get I don't get that. I can see the town of glass thing, right? I I agree with you. I I don't see I don't understand. I again I just think it has to do with the the hatred for Drury and it just trickles down, right? I I do no one no one seemed to care that Sayther's son was a was a was a scout in the organization for fucking 10 years, right? Shannon Sayther, I think was it Shannon Sayther?

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:55

No, anyway, but he he was a scout in the organization for for for 10 years, and that's at least nepotism. So if you want to get mad at nepotism, fine, but these other guys, it's not nepotism, it's yeah, they're former NHL players that are teaching young kids how to be NHL players.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:13

But what I understand, from what I can what I from what I can see from what I've heard, Tanner Glass is an awesome guy. Yeah, is he? I don't understand. I I've heard stories. I mean, and Ranger fans should be ashamed of themselves. Yeah, I don't like I don't I was not a I was like I said, I was not a Trochick fan, I did not like Ryan Reeves. There was a lot of guys, but I would never be rude to a player. Would I go out of my way to see them or meet them or talk to them? No, I wouldn't, but I wouldn't like like I I heard I heard a story that that of a group of fans, uh Tanner Glass was signing something and he turned to someone like oh, do you and someone said I don't want to. I don't want I don't want it. I don't want nothing to have to do with you. Or and they turn their back on him. I'm like, dude, listen, you don't like the guy. Just say, Whoa, listen, I'm uh no, no, thanks, Tan. I'm good. Thank you. Appreciate it. I mean, he's a human being. I mean, you don't like the way he plays on the ice, fine. You don't they hated his contract, the three years? It is what it is. I mean, that was Glenn Satyr's thing. He whether it was Bugard, Aaron Asham, Mike Rupp. I mean, the list goes on and on. That was his thing. You had to have a goon. Ron, John Scott. I mean, Aaron Voros. I mean, the list goes on and on. But I mean, don't be don't be mean to there. Are these are human beings? And when you and I could complain about these things, and I I sit back and I'm like, you know, I've met some of these guys. They're awesome. Right. They're great guys. I've met Sabinajad. He's an awesome dude. I met Truba. He's a great guy. I mean, I what the way I feel about them as hockey players has nothing to do with how I feel about them as a person.

SPEAKER_01: 1:41:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:02

And and you know, like I said, I mean, if I if I went went outside and I ran into Vinny Trochik and say, Hey, Vinny, what's going on? And I and that's it. Would I take a picture of them? Probably not. I'd say hello to him, I would say have a you know, have a great season, have a great night, or whatever, and that would be the end of it. People, man, they can't separate it. I mean, it's it's pathetic and it's sad, and it makes our fan base look like assholes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:41:25

Unfortunately, I think every fan base is the same. I don't know. I don't think in St. Louis they're like that. Just for baseball. I don't know if blues fans are saying. I don't know. Anything else you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:40

No, I mean, uh, you want to go through the game? I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_01: 1:41:42

No, I don't want there's not one more game this year I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:46

No, I I'm with you. Uh, so how many games do they have left? Are they 37 games? Is that right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:41:51

They've played fucking getting back to that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:54

51. They played 51 games.

SPEAKER_01: 1:41:56

Yeah, so you're better at math than me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:58

Uh, so there's 82 games, so they have 30. 31. 31. 31 games. 31 games? Yeah. How many of those 31 games do you think they win? 12. I was gonna say 10, but 12 probably more. And throw some loser points in there too. Yeah, you're about right. I would say about 10.

SPEAKER_01: 1:42:21

I've seen 10 and 12. They'll get to they'll get to 33 to 35.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:24

Oh, no, Sean, and I'm telling you now, the three or four game winning streak, it's it's gonna come at some point. I thought it was gonna come after that fire game, but it's coming. It's coming. They'll probably beat the islanders next week. They'll probably beat the islanders on the 29th.

SPEAKER_01: 1:42:37

They're still fighting, man. Like, I've I've watched the end of the Anaheim game. I saw the third period of the Anaheim game, the third period of the Kings game. Right. And they're fighting to the end in these games. I'm saying, like, if they're it's not like they're giving up, they're not rolling over.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:51

No, and that's you know, I mean, the you know that that's that's that that's even more of annoying annoyance to me. Like, where was this against Boston, against Ottawa? Where where was this fight in those?

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:07

Again, not every team shows up to 82 games, but they've they've shown up the majority of it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:13

Since that winter classic game, they have not shown up other game other than other than the game against Philly, which which if you think about it, if they didn't jump out to a three-nothing lead on three shots, would that game have gone? How would that game have gone?

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:28

Yeah, I thought Philly had them hemmed in their zone until they scored. And Philly took a one-nothing lead. Too funny.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:34

But no, this was good. So uh we will, if anything does break, yeah. We have we'll see what happens next week. We can just jump on. We're not, I'm not, we're not gonna keep doing shows and talking about the same thing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43:47

No.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:48

Uh, if something comes up, we'll either jump on, we'll do a live, we'll do something. Um, we'll try to have guests on, we'll talk through some prospects. But for Sean and I to sit here and for two hours and talk again about uh, you know, about where Pinarin's going or where we think Sabinajad's gonna play next season, or if Stoffernier's gonna get traded. I I don't know about you, I don't have it in me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:44:16

I don't have it in me every week, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:18

Um we will think of some ideas so we can do some shows down the road. Um, maybe we'll do some some kind of ideas with the draft and some stuff like that. But to sit here and find out where these guys are going, it's I don't I don't have I just don't have it. I don't got it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:44:37

Addressing every rumor is very, very tough. Yeah, so until until something actually happens, right? Well, like you said, we can get a prize, yeah. I'll also talk to Steve because I want to ask him and Steve Cornianos, but right what I'm saying. Um, when does he feel like he's got his homework done to really come on and talk about it? Does he want to talk about it the week before the draft and we just wait for that, or do we talk to him soon?

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:01

Um we could have him on twice. I mean, if he's down to talk, I mean we could talk to him about the season and how it's progressed. We don't have to just talk about the draft, right? Where they've gone wrong, how he feels about where they are now opposed to where they were in 18.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45:14

I mean, there's a lot of little I also want to ask him, and I'll ask him this also, because again, I'm I'm hoping that some of our trades that we make here are not just for picks, but they're for some prospects. Well, the way this GM is operated, we'll see. But um, I don't know how much like once guys are drafted, does he lose touch on those guys? You know, is he always just preparing for the next draft as opposed to continuing to watch prospects? I know Russ is a prospects guy just as much as he is a draft guy, right? So he you know it it's not like uh the draft happens.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:48

Can you ask Russ about Minnesota's uh prospect pool? No, I'll I'll text them later uh tomorrow and I'll ask him. I'm curious because I'm hearing a lot of Trochek to Minnesota. I mean, hearing a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:00

That's just the relationship that they that they have with.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:03

I'm just saying that's that's the one that's the one thing that I've heard a lot of. So all right. If we hear anything or we hear if anything comes down the pike, you'll see you'll see us again.

SPEAKER_01: 1:46:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:14

All right, have a great night. Later.