Draft Lottery Hangover

The lottery balls don’t bounce our way, so we stop doom-scrolling and actually talk through what Pick 5 can still mean for the Rangers. We argue about tanking, draft process, and whether the only real path to a star is finally nailing a blue-chip selection. 
• why the draft lottery randomness fuels conspiracy talk but doesn’t prove anything 
• the tanking argument versus playing to win and living with the results 
• what we look for when evaluating NHL draft prospects, especially body control and pace 
• why the Rangers’ history of missing on elite forwards changes the pressure on this pick 
• the case for best player available over drafting for need 
• what a trade up to No. 2 might cost and why it almost never happens 
• a breakdown of the top defensemen versus the top forwards expected near Pick 5 
• why draft rankings disagree so much and what that says about tiers 
• later first-round names and sleepers worth tracking with the second pick 
• when offseason trades and roster dominoes are most likely to fall 

Transcript

Lottery Results And Instant Reactions

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Well the dust is settled. The draft uh lottery is over. We are the lottery losers, as some would say. Um yeah, Rock, here we are. This is a little bit of a surprise coming back uh the day after uh the draft lottery. And I think we both wanted to talk, we both had some views. This is for me personally, I just want to react to a lot of what's out there. That's usually what that's usually what where I get the most most fun out of this. It's reacting to the nonsense you have, but you usually have a lot of strong opinions, and so all right, the the the balls bounced and they did not bounce our way. We were in both the first overall pick and second overall pick. We had good odds on both of them, right? And not and neither one went our way. Um, I just want to put out there before we go anywhere with this, I will turn it over to you after. Guys, the lottery is not fixed, and it is 1000% not going to be fixed for the biggest hockey market where they have every eyeball in that market on hockey all the time. That's not the market that they feel they need to improve, right? It's not fixed. Rock, take it away.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Uh, yes, you and I did our uh our draft lottery show yesterday for everyone that joined us. We appreciate that. Uh, I did a quick 30-minute live last night just to kind of get my bearings, and I had a lot of thoughts and everything else. So if you join me last night, you're probably gonna hear more Sean talking today than me, but we are gonna kind of bounce around a few things. But um, I agree with you. I mean, the the lottery is what it is. I mean, it's a lottery. I mean, it's anybody can win it. I mean, you have to be in it to win it. And uh, if they didn't bounce in our favor, and and like I said last night, and I told you, and I told people and friends and people that have reached out to me today, um, you know, I just I just never thought they were gonna win it. I was I hopeful and win, especially when we saw the odds and that they were still in it up to the end. Uh when they had the best percentages to win it in some cases. I I I just felt like they had their opportunity in some way. Like it was just someone else, it was another team's turn. They won two lotteries in a row. Uh I just felt like, you know, I just deep down inside us, just it just didn't I don't know, I just didn't have a feeling, a good feeling about it. Um, I did I did have a feeling though that Toronto was gonna win it. I I just it just you said Florida. Well, I said Toronto or Florida, to be fair. But um uh I did think Florida was gonna win it, to be honest with you. Uh it would just seem fitting that they they missed the playoffs if they're winning the cup two years in a row, and uh and they would get the first overall pick. And I just think that I guess the hockey gods in that in that perspective spared us. Right. Um again, I I it is what it is. I I I think we we could be proud of the fact that the team didn't tank. I know there was a lot of of the tanking aspect of it, and I listen, I was on the fore, I was on the foreground saying that, you know, what are they winning these meaningless games for? They didn't, they played hard, they didn't tank, and they still weren't rewarded. It it is what it is. I mean, I don't uh I don't I you know you can't go you can go both ways. I mean the year before they lose, they they win those two last games against Tampa and Florida to end the season the year before, and maybe they lose that one of those games and they're ahead of the islanders and they get the islanders' odds, and maybe they have Schaefer.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

So again, it's if we beat Florida the next to last game of the season this year, we have McKenna. It's really that simple. But that's why you can't look you can't look at it one way or the other. No, you just go out there, you play it's said all the time, you go out there, play the games, win every game you can, and the dust will settle where the dust settles. San Jose went out there with all these kids, they fought for a playoff spot in a very weak division, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

That's another team that's just stepped in shit, though, lately.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

All the way to the end. They fought for a playoff spot.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

They've done it right, they've done it right, they've been bad for a long time now. I mean, they've been bad for how long now?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

I would consider five years. That's a normal rebuild when you're really doing a rebuild.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

They've been bad, they had a 20-year run. They had a 20-year run. They've been truly they've been the worst team in hockey. How many years in a row? Correct.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Right. They did a true unapologetic rebuild.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

The the like I said, and I and I said this last night, I was more upset that they fell two spots than them not winning the lottery, and that's kind of how I felt. I got that worst the worst possible scenario for this team to happen was what happened last night was that they fell two spots.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

And here's and and here on this show is where we will talk and discuss. Now, everybody out there, Costa, trust me, we're gonna we're gonna get to all this. I feel I have done enough research on the top 10 in this draft to speak about it. When I want to preface all this when I say this person could be like this guy, when I compare someone to an NHL player, I am comparing them as draft prospects to that NHL player as a draft prospect. It is unfair to compare Gavin McKenna to Patrick Kane, the NHL all-time player. That's saying, hey, you're 17 years old, you're gonna come into the NHL and you're gonna put up 700 points. That is unfair to do to anybody. I don't care when you're picked. So when I make comparisons, it's I've watched a little bit of video on them, but it's more I've talked to I talked to Steve Cornianos, I talked to Russ Cohen. Um, Steve is not able to go on podcast anymore. I think that's a mandate from the boss above. So, Steve, if you're listening, I will leave it at that. Uh Russ, I'm gonna talk to and try and get on the show at some point, but you know, these are guys that I think I know I trust, I know Rock, you trust them. The masses, you've heard both of them on our show, you've heard both of them on BSU, amongst other shows. So you have your own opinions. Um, you know, you read Craig Button, you read Sam Costantino, you read what's what a lot of these guys who they make a living and you know watching prospects play hockey. What they do. They you know, Mel Kype, that they're the Mel Kuyper Jr. and Todd McShay of the NHL. Um, I think Button is always pro-Canada, but that's listen, what you take with a grain of salt when you read some of the rankings on these players and some of the things that are said about these players. Um, I I find Russ and Corneanos to not have biases based off of geographical locations. So, you know, you you take everything with a grain of salt, but uh what I try and do just to give to give you guys background on how I on how I go about this, I read and I read and I read and I read, and I try and form my head what I think a player is, and then I watch highlights of them. And all I look for in highlights is body control, speed and body control. How are they moving through traffic with the puck? Because to me, that's where you see the difference of NHL players, and when you're watching, like if you're watching a college game, you know, there may be two or three guys on each team that has NHL ability, and that's to me the part that stands out. There may be a kid who's gonna be bagging groceries, it's the fastest skater on the ice, but with the puck, they're not able to maneuver and keep their body moving forward in the right position with the puck at top speed. I think I've said that totally wrong. But you when you watch a wide receiver go up to grab a ball and keep his feet in bounds, is body control. It's that type of athletic ability that I'm looking to see a guy on skates have. Right. To me, that's what separates. Watching a guy score goals. I said this five years ago, four years ago, about Brendan Offman. I said, look, he's scoring a shit ton of goals in the OHL. His shot is either good enough to beat NHL goalies or it's not, because I don't see anything else. He's either going to be TJ Oshi or he's gonna be, he's not an NHL player. Maybe he'll be a bottom uh fourth-line player because he doesn't he doesn't move well with the puck. There's nothing, there's no there's nothing to him enough other than the fact he was able to score a shit ton of goals.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

And I don't want to make this about Brennan Oppen, but that's what I mean when I say I really didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

I mean a valid point about as far as the drafting goes and and what they're looking for and how that was such a big swing and miss. I mean it it it was, it's it's yeah, every we missed on Wyatt Johnson.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

I mean, you don't need to go any further than that. They needed a center, and a a superstar center was drafted five, six picks after them.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

You know, Dallas. I I I talked about this last night. Dallas has just been able to find these guys. I mean, I talked about Thomas Harley, who was the sixth defenseman drafted. They can't wait to get rid of him. He was drafted uh 15th overall, and you know, he goes to Dallas and he becomes a star.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

And you know that their entire fan base wants to get rid of him.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Why? Because he makes 10 and a half million and they want to keep Robertson, and they don't think they'll be able to keep him. I don't know about that. I'm just telling you, I'm just I'm just telling what their fan base is doing.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

All I could say is this. I'm I haven't seen that anywhere, but my point, my point was was that I said, will you take Schneider? You figure out, you know, the draft is such a tough thing to determine. And you when you see guys, you know, uh who get drafted behind you, and and and you see the same teams just making these shrewd moves, it's it's it's disheartening in some ways. Like, you know, they've been able to find the goaltending and the defense in a lot of ways, but when it becomes to these forwards, they just they can't draft a star. They just can't. Sean, I don't I don't know what I don't know what the missing ingredient is that in their history they have not drafted a hall of fame forward is insane to me. Is it insane to me? Do you think we'll be back to Lawrence?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Oh, I'm gonna get to that. Thank thanks. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Thank you, Brian, for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

I'm gonna start calling, I'm gonna start calling Brian Tank. He went from meat on the street to tank.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Listen, and I told Sean, I texted him this, I go, listen, I was on the tank bandwagon too, but it does does go to show you in a lot of ways that tanking doesn't work. I mean, it does. I mean, this this is a the perfect example. But what I will say though, was that this was the first time in a long time that two teams below the the bottom four both jumped ahead of the top the top four teams. Yeah, this is the first time this has happened uh in I think in the in the not so new deep not so recent future. You know, most of the times I know the Devils jumped up from five, but it hasn't been that big of a disparity, other than obviously the Islanders jumped up, but there there wasn't like you had two teams that were five and below jump into the top two, where that hasn't happened. And and of course that's gonna happen when the year the rangers are in, you know, in the top three. Of course it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

But here's here's where I'm gonna I'm gonna calm you down, calm the masses down. Listen, obviously winning the lottery would have been the best scenario, winning second would have been the second best scenario. They're the two best players in the draft. I think Stenberg's the best player in the draft, from everything I've seen and red. Um, but neither here nor there, neither one will be a ranger unless we're able to, you know, unless unless those those naked pictures of Mike Greer, you know, with 30 hookers still resides in Chris Drury's office, and he's able to pull out the Mike Greer card one more time and pull off a trade, you know, five to two. And a trade listen from both sides, I could see a trade making sense between both teams. So they don't have the assets to get him.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

They don't have the assets, Sean. That's not even that's not even entertain this. They do not have the assets to get the second overall pick. Because from what I wonder, because what I'm hearing, they want Chase Reed, and I don't think Chase Reed makes it to five.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Vancouver's not taking Chase Reed. But I'm telling you right now, Chicago would might Chicago might. Chicago might Chicago might take Fairhock. You you'd have to do a lot of really good.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

I'm listening to I'm unless they unless they're keen on one of the three guys, so therefore they'll be happy to get one of the three guys, but again, I mean if Stenberg's the talent he is, why wouldn't you just acquire him, trust uh draft him, and then trade somebody else? And I'll tell you why of all these young players, which is the guy that kind of shakes loose.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

I'll tell you why. Because how often do we see a Quinn Hughes get traded? How often do you see those building block defensemen, those numbers true like number one defensemen get moved? They don't they don't they don't get traded unless you have a circumstance like Quinn Hughes where he says, I'm not signing because you're in Canada and I don't want to play in Canada. So unless that's the only circumstance that it happens. So if you're San Jose, you're not in that boat. People aren't gonna leave San Jose. People love playing in San Jose. So you're you need to you need to draft that guy. You can't acquire that guy. So you don't want to be Toronto, where you do four draft picks in a row that are all high, and you draft them all as as forwards, and you you neglect ever building a true back, you know, true blue line. Well, Morgan Riley was the best. He sucks. Morgan Riley was never more than a three or four, and he was there number one. And and that's part of why they haven't won.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah, but who I'm trying to think who their other first rounders have been. I mean Marner Marner, Neilander. I would need to know, I would need to go back and look at those drafts to see what defensemen were drafted around, what defensemen were available.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

My point is they never used one of their high picks on a defenseman.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

But we, of course, again are in a draft this year where there are a glut of defensemen when it in it where we don't really, and not that we don't need a defenseman, we need a star forward. And let's be fair, we don't need Chase Reed.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

You don't need, I mean Do you want to know how silly that's that comment can sound like? That's going back to 2017 or 2018 and saying we don't need Kale McCarr.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Okay, no, I'm not all right. Maybe that's maybe that's a poor choice of wording. But my point is is that where are they finding, where are you finding a hundred-point forward? Where you're finding a hundred point forward.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

In this draft? 100 point forward?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Where are you where are you finding a bona fide 100-point player?

SPEAKER_02 16:51

You can find a 70-point defenseman, no, I think Stenberg's the only one in this draft. I think McKenna's gonna be really damn good. I don't I don't know that he's a 100-point guy. I think he's gonna be really, really, really damn good. And he might listen, he may have a season where he gets to 100 points.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Ryan, I'm not champing. If Verhop is better than than Carval's long term, I don't care about I'm not worried about Fit. I'm not worried about right-handedness. Here's why you play you play him behind him. That's it. There's no guarantee Fox is even gonna be here in five years.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Thank you. I was just gonna say I mean five years.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

I mean, you you think he might be, but you know, you won a championship with Leech and Zuboff, and they didn't play on the same pair. Yeah, so I I don't really care. I don't care if one's right-handed, if they're both right-handed, I don't care what side they play on. And I said this last night, I want the best player that's gonna play, be the best fit and the best long-term fit for this team. I don't care what position they play.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Building block. You want you want foundational building block players. Right. Fox is what 28 next year?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Is he? Yeah, he's about that.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

So he'll be 32 five years from now when whoever we draft this year is 23. So I guess coming into their prime.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

It doesn't matter. Just because you have, just because you have listen, if Chase read if the Rangers think Chase Reed is is Makar or Miro Hayeskin in, fine, but he could be Boeing Byram.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

You could say that about every draft prospect.

How We Evaluate Draft Prospects

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Again, he's a prospect. I know, I'm just saying. Yes, I'm just saying, like, we have no idea. That's what scares me, is because they could not miss on this draft.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

But that's every draft.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

I know.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Every draft we have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

We don't this is not what we do. We've had so many whiffs.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

The important thing is that they need to know. Right.

unknown 18:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

And Brian, so Brian, I I listen, Brian, I should on you with the tanking. I should on you with it, but I will give you credit now. You were very, very correct today in saying the Rangers screwed up the 2003 draft, and that has nothing to do with whatever's going to happen in June this year. 100%. It's a different regime. It same with 2020 and before. You know, that they the fill Leus Anderson debacle. The Leus Anderson debacle doesn't get talked about nearly enough. How many unbelievable centers were taken after Leas Anderson in this draft? Well, I mean, what Natchez was taking what two afternoon? Natus, Suzuki, Robert Thomas, just right there off the top of my head. All taken after Leus Anderson. What would those three guys have done for this organization over the last seven years?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

You know why they took because they felt that Leah Sanderson was going to be able to walk right in.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

But we talk about Dylan McElrath.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

We talk about Dylan McElrath and well, we talk about Dylan McElrath also because there was a lot, but not Tarasenko, there was Cam Fowler, there was Jaden Schwartz. There was a few guys that turned out to be very good, and same thing with Jetsman. And because they were just very good drafts.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

But the seven-down draft wound up being really fucking good, also, especially for centers that were taken after Leah Sanderson.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

And unfortunately, just before Philip Edel. Yeah. Um, well, Hiddle, I can never blame anybody for Heatle because Heatle to me was a very good player that just, you know, obviously didn't uh but yeah, but Brian, you're you were you were dead on today by saying that.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah, no, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Um yeah, that so this is a new regime that is never picked higher than 16th. Clearly, the Othman pick was a whiff. There are more prospects that the right that Drury's people we we don't have to give Drury the credit because the GM does not make the draft selections. Will Drury have a high input on who's picked number five this year? Yes. These guys have the GM definitely has final say on a top five pick because it doesn't take it, but Drury is not making nothing.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

What I don't want him final say when it comes to amateur players, but no GM is sitting there making the final say on who's picked 25th, 60th, 90th, because they've never seen these guys play. Right. He's seen he has seen the top 35 league play.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

I would say the top 10 or 15.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

I would say anyone who's projected to go in the first round, he's seen play. Especially with the fact that they have two personal. Maybe once or twice. Right. No, of course.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

So we'll we're gonna give the credit or the blame for the most part to Drury's people. And that goes with Othman too. I mean, I guarantee you Chris Drury never saw Brent Brennan Othman play more than two or three times before that draft pick. Now his scouts saw every time his skates hit the ice and determined that he was the best player to take in that spot. Or they could have said, hey, it's this guy, this guy, and this guy. All right. And Drury says, What traits do each one of those guys bring? And if someone, because remember how they build him when he was drafted, oh, he's tough to play against, goal scorer, you know, nasty, has a mean streak, all that, all that shit that was said.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

None of that which of what we saw.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Right. So he may have said, yeah, take that guy over that guy because he brings that extra element. We're not in the room because you know Jeff Corton's not in charge, so we don't get to be in the room anymore. Right. Um, but yeah, let's let's let's all go into this with this is really this regime's first chance at drafting a blue chip type player. You know, we got they got Gabe Perot at 20, what, 22, 23, they drafted him at EJ Emory was a 30th pick in the draft. That's as much of a crapshoot as a second round pick. It's a complete hit or miss, whatever he is. It's 30th. I mean, you really you can't get on someone for not making it on a 30th overall pick. I'm not gonna kill him for that. But they have had more kids come up that Drury's people have drafted in the last two years than I can remember any of Gorton's people.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

As Elliot Freeban said on it. It's fine. No, they filled, you know, I'll be No Alaba, Cooley. No, Cooley wasn't wasn't a drury pick, but uh Noelaba, um Grand, you know, uh who was we said who was a couple uh who was the other guy? I'm blanking. Rempi Rempey was another one. Edstrom. Wasn't Edstrom in the draft previously? Fortescue. Fortescue was another one. Yeah, so they've they've hit, they haven't hit that star. I mean, again, but they have never hit on a star forward. No, I mean it's gotta change at some point, right? I mean, you're never gonna go for him lash. Thank you. That was the guy I was thinking of. Thank you. I think Sakura was another guy. Um, they've hit a lot of little singles, but they've gotta at some point, Sean, they have gotta, they have gotta at some point find that Hall of Fame forward. They are not winning a championship because I just don't know with the cap going up and up and up every year, it who's gonna shake loose. Free agency is not gonna be a thing for a while. I don't know if if if if uh if Philly gets crushed in this series, swept, they might say, or we want Brady Kachuk. Who do you want? You want Mitchkop? You don't have anybody to match that. True, you don't, you don't have a talent that, especially a young talent, controllable talent like that. So we don't have the assets to go out and get anybody. You would have to see that Brady Kachuk would have to sit down. I'm not, I'm just using him as an example. I know and say, Okay, I want to only play for the Rangers, make it happen, or don't trade me anywhere and I'll become a free agent in two years. That's it. I mean, that's really where it comes down to because they don't have to ask you anything else.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

And just tell me in a yes or no question, Rock. Has that happened multiple times in the past? Yes, but not in a while. Not since JT Miller a year ahead. A year ago.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah, I guess. They're on a lot of people. Not since Kevin Stattenker. They're in a different situation at that point. Just saying. No one thought that no one thought the bottom was gonna fall. It has.

Rangers Draft Misses And What’s Next

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah, we we the list goes on and on about guys who choose to come here. Anyway, let's get into some of these some of these players here.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Now I'm gonna tell you right now this is all you because I haven't watched any of this stuff. Okay, no, I'll involve you. I promise. I've only can tell you what I've seen people say, and I've seen the first mock draft I've seen that didn't have Bearhoff on it was one from NHL.com, and they have us taking uh Carvals.

unknown 25:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

So that's I got I got Craig Button and Sam Cosantino's lists up in front of me. I got the uh Tankathon draft prospect list in front of me that gives us the beautiful thing that you see is so here's two guys who are both you know sports net and TSN and all the fun stuff, and they have different differing opinions uh on players and and who's ahead of who. So Craig Button has Carson Carrolls as the number two pick in the draft. He has him second. So he I'll give you the top ten.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

He has him ahead of Chase Reed, yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

He has McKenna one, Carroll's two, Reed three, Stenberg four, Verhoff five, Bjork sixth, Smith seven, Daxon Rudolph eight, Oliver Savanto nine, and Liam Rook 10. There's a lot of things I don't agree with at all in there. But hey, that's this is Craig Button.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Did you have Mel Holter in the top 10? He doesn't have a halter. He has Melholcher 11th. Interesting. He's going top ten. I think. I let I got I could be that wrong, but from all we're hearing.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Sam Cosentino has Ivar Stenberg 1, McKenna two, Verhoff three, Reed four, Malholcher five, Schmidt six, Carol seven, Bjork eight, Tynan Lawrence nine, Oscar Hemming ten. So very, very different. And these are two guys that this is what they do.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Was anyone the same in the top ten? Where they where they where they were?

SPEAKER_02 27:36

No. Nobody. Or was Reed four for both? Hold on. No, Reed was three.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

So he was McKenna going two. He has McKenna going two to San Jose. This is just a rank.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

This isn't a mock.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah.

unknown 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

I don't know. I don't believe in mocks.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

I I I want to see where people where people have people ranked. Um I got Chris Peters here. I got Kennedy, Ferrari, McKeynes. Let's let's do uh let's do Chris Peters. So Chris Peters. He's got McKenna one, Verhoff two, Stenberg three. Uh this is very old. Never mind. He's got Ryan Rubrik four. We're gonna we're gonna erase that one. I don't think that one's been updated in a calendar year when Ryan Rubrik was a top five. Wow, top five guy. He had Verhoff two, though. Verhoff was supposed to be two this whole time. Wow. Three months ago, if you had this conversation three months ago, it was McKenna, Verhoff, and that Verhoff may pass him.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

If you had this conversation in January, that worries all that much. I mean, we saw, I mean, but then again, since Joe fell a little bit. Can I tell you why? Fell what can I tell you why? He had a bad world juniors.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

No, you don't have a bad world junior. You ran the power play for world juniors.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Okay, I'm just I don't know. Just that's usually what that's usually what people base a lot of.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

No, it's he didn't put up anything that was crazy numbers in college as a 17-year-old. He's 17. Right. He's not gonna be 18 years old.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

I think he's gonna step in. Do they think any of these defensemen next year are gonna step in and play?

SPEAKER_02 29:33

No, even Chase Reed already said he's going to college. Okay, Gerhoff is staying in North Dakota. Carrolls is going the college route. Um, yeah, the defensemen, none of these defensemen are coming to the NHL next year. Uh Stenberg is Stenberg already told uh you know, told Sweden he's uh North America bound next year. So Stenberg will be in the league. I assume McKenna will be in the league. He may go back to Penn State for a year, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

I don't see it. Yeah. Um, the top two guys will be in the league next year.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah. But I think all three defensemen will be in college uh next year for sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Yeah, I mean, and like I said, I I don't I I you know I don't you don't really need this, these guys to step in. I mean, they need to make a real big culture change as far as how they handle these prospects. They they've rushed guys along, and I I really believe that this kind of hurt hurt their hurt their development, and they need to figure out what what's gone wrong, and I think that's really the biggest thing is what why have these guys failed? Because they weren't good, they weren't just weren't not good players, they weren't they're terribly scouted.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

And and the reason the reason I stand by that is who's gone on to to brighter futures elsewhere where you even see glimpses of it. Did Leas Anderson go anywhere else and all of a sudden put up produce? Even even in Europe, he hasn't done anything. What happened?

SPEAKER_01 31:15

I don't want to say of the playoffs, but I have heard Keandre Miller's very good for the Carolina. I that's fine. I don't know, I don't know, but they got a return for him. No, you're right. I'm just saying, like, he was not good here, and that's fine, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Look, look, let's rephrase that. He was inconsistent here, he showed that he can play, and he's had bright spots, you know. When Sidney Crosby in 2020 in the 22 playoffs is sitting there raving about how tough Keandre Miller was to play against that whole series, John. He was like an octopus with a stick, John Cooper. John Cooper gave him all the praise in the world. Yeah, I think New York was too big of a thing for Miller to handle, and he's if he's God bless him if he's playing well in Carolina. We got two draft picks and a B-level prospect who probably won't amount to nothing, but we got two prospects and the cap relief to go sign um with Kavrakov, who to me is a better player, so I'm fine with it. Anyway, aside from that, um, but Bartali Krafsov hasn't done anything. No, so it's not like these guys Nels Lunquist. Even even Kapo people are like, oh my god, Kako got two assists the other day. Well, he's on a 45-point pace playing on one of the worst teams in the league.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

You know what it is, he's gonna probably going to just be a third-line guy. He's gonna put up 30, 35, 40 points a year, 15 goals. He's gonna play penalty kill, and but he's probably gonna play 10, 15 years in the league, but he's not ever going to be a goal scorer, right? Which is in the net. Incredible because you watched him. We watched him at the at the worlds, we watched him, you know, in in in different aspects, and you're like, What happened to this guy?

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Did you watch him at the worlds or did you see what what I saw?

SPEAKER_01 33:10

I watched the whole game.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

The one great player the whole game. No, I watched and you were blown away by him the whole game?

SPEAKER_01 33:17

He was very good. I thought he was very good in the game. I mean, but again, he's playing and not playing against NHL players. No, there were NHL players. Not the whole team. Not the whole team.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

I don't remember who the roster is.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The point of the point of the thing is that they've just they just have not been lucky in these drafts. They have not they have not been able to find that star player in the later rounds. You know, they have not been able to find a Braden Point, you know, they haven't been able to find a Datsuk or a Zetterberg or you know, you know, some yeah, Jamie Ben. You know, they've they've found Jesper Fast and Haglund, you know, and and guys like that, but and maybe I'm talking about a guy that's gonna put up 70 points, 80 points.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

No, but I'm saying you're talking about those guys. Lava is on more time.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

They've been able to find bottom six guys, but they have not been able to go out and find a guy that's gonna put up 25 goals, 40 assists, 30 assists, 50, 60, 70 points. They have not been able to draft that player.

Do They Have Assets To Trade Up

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Oh, hopefully Perot's that guy. And then but he's granted he's not he's a he's a late first rounder, which to me becomes a crapshoot. Yeah. Uh who do they draft with the other? Let me let me put Costa's uh comment on here. Stupid question. Who they draft with the other one, provided they still have it come draft. I haven't even gotten that deep.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah, have you? I haven't even gone on that road. But why don't you're keeping that draft pick? I do. I I don't think they're keeping that draft pick.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

And here, and here's what I'll say about it.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

I will the only way they're keeping that draft pick is if they can't trade, if they can't make a trade.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

I will paraphrase um our good friend Steve. So Steve talked to me about actually trading down from five, which I don't agree with.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yeah, trading it doesn't happen anymore.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

No, so he talked about trading down from five because he feels that the late first round and the second round and late first round all bleeds into each other as far as prospect level. So anywhere from 20 to 40, you might get the same type of prospect. So bringing in you know second-round picks to move down. I don't agree with it. Um, the only one that I would even consider that he brought up to me would be trading down with St. Louis from five to 10, but getting St. Louis's second pick, which I think is 16, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Oh, that's the Detroit pick, right? Yeah, they're getting from Detroit.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

And to me, for that to work out, we would have to get lucky that one of the guys I really like falls to 10.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

For that to for that I mean, I really once you get out of the top 10, and again, it's a second layer crapshoot.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Yeah, it's a calculated crapshoot.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, it's a there's a whole thing. I'm just looking at so let's go. I'm just looking at the 22 draft. I just pulled that one up. So that's the Slev Slazovky draft. Nemich, Shane Wright, Cutter Gautier. Um, I mean, I'm just looking at the top 10 players. None of them really. I mean, Logan Cooley. He's very good. I don't have their statistics here. Cutter Gautier is probably the best of the of the top ten. Cool. Oh, I would have Cooley in there.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

So I mean Slavkovski's great. He's good.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

He's great. I don't see I don't have his points here. I don't have their points. He finally came out.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

I want to look for a thing with their points, and he's been great in the playoffs, too.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Like you said, I mean he these guys come in. These guys just take time. It's not, it's not always fair. And he's been put in a better situation, I think, than Lafreniere's been was put in.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Who?

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Sleft uh how he pronounced his last name. Yeah, Slavgoski.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

I think he was put in the same. He was playing in a middle, a middle six spot, you know, his second and third line role. They didn't rush him into a first, they didn't rush him into playing power play. And he was labeled a bust for two years because it took him some time to to mature and grow into his body.

unknown 37:47

Statistics.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Yeah, and that's what I hope that we're finally seeing with La Fernier. He's got you know, he's grown into his body a little bit. Opportunities helping. I don't want to make the show at all about talking about the current roster. Uh statistics.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

So of the top, so all right, so he actually has the most points. He's played the most games, though, too.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Who?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Slevkowski. He's the number one hundred and eighty-four points in 282 games. The Nolan Cooley's two. He's played in 211.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

He's always hurt. That's the only problem with that.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

152 points. Gaudier's played in he's three. He's played 159, he has 114. So he's played in almost 100 games, he's playing 100 games less, and he has 114 points. Including 61 goals.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Slatkowski this year had 30 goals and 73 points.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

I mean, he might be coming into his own, but I'm just looking at, I mean, this is not a very good draft from so far, from what it's looking like. And we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

But why are we talking about the the 22 draft?

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Well, I'm just the reason I brought it up was that I just wanted to see where where players um I had a point. You know, when you get out of the top 10, like what what's the disparaging number as far as who like try to word it word it the right way? How big of a talent drop-off is there as far as how many games these guys have played in their careers?

SPEAKER_02 39:34

I think every draft is different.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

If you go past just just I just pulled this draft arbitrarily. After Frank, Frank Nechkash or Nectar, the kid from Chicago. Nazar. Nazar?

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Nazar.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

I'm thinking of uh Stan Netskash who played for the Rangers. Um, he played 122 games. He has 68 points.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

After him, Jimmy Stuggaroo is the next play has the next most points, and he was drafted at 23. So I always say, I just think after you get into the top 10, it's maybe one or two guys that really turn it up, right? Am I am I wrong by saying that?

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yeah, because I think wrong there's some drafts where you find some really fucking good players in the teams. I'm not saying the 20s.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

I'm just saying it gets.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

And you find you find guys from eight to ten sometimes that don't make it.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Well, we know we've I've already I I said Alex Turk cotton the other night who was drafted fifth overall. I looked up his statistics, you don't even want to know what how many points that kid has.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

Alex Turk.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Yes. The I brought him up. I brought him up because I was saying, like, I really hope they don't reach for a guy. Right. Because I feel like when when player when teams reach for a player, it just it never works out. It very rarely works out. And teams reach for centers all the time. And we've seen, you know, you know, uh uh Kakinyemi was reached for. We saw Barrett Hayden was reached for. We saw Dubois, who has on been on three teams, he was reached for. I just said Alex Turkot was you could maybe say he was reached for in some capacity. So I'm just saying, like, that's what scares me when you start reaching for players. Pick the best player available. It's not like this team is so flushed with prospect that you could do what San Jose is possibly gonna do and take a defenseman when there's possibly a generational, a step below generational talent available.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Yeah, there's there is no generational talent in this. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 41:53

I don't mean generational. I'm you know, I I know that that term gets thrown around loosely. Too much. I meant I meant a guy that's that's who could be a very good player, right? That they're that's good, but they already have five other forwards that you know. I and I know I don't know what's going on with William Eklund. He he seems to be he seems to have fallen off, right? No, not at all. Someone was talking about him recently, about him not really living up to expectations.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

I think the kid has a fucking ridiculous snipe. I saw it live uh at the garden this year. I was very impressed by William Ecklin. Sure, you didn't mix him up with Celebrini? No, I'm I I nothing mixes up Celebrini.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

My point was just to go rehash what I just was saying, is like I think after you get out of the top ten, I think your chances of finding that high-end star player really drops off. All right, that was my point.

Ranking Lists And Draft Uncertainty

SPEAKER_02 42:47

So, because I don't want to have any of the bias of Craig Button or Sam Cosantino, I'm gonna pull up the I'm gonna go through each prospect here and kind of give you my thoughts on them. Again, five cents in my thoughts will get you a nickel, and that's it. But you're tuning in here at 10:30 at night to listen to us. So maybe maybe you want to hear a little bit about what I got to say about some of these guys. Who are you taking at five?

SPEAKER_01 43:13

If it's you, see the board if I if the draft goes the way I think it will go, but the if the draft goes the way you think it's going, so it's McKenna, Svenberg, Reed, Maholtra, Reed.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

That's not ordered. I'm of the opinion that now, if I was Mike Greer at two, I would try and make a trade with either Chicago or the Rangers to move down to four or five, pick up another asset, and still get the right handed defenseman that I want. Because they have they drafted Sam Dickinson already, who's a good left handed defenseman. They don't have anyone on the right side. So if if on my career, because I know that Vancouver's not taking a defenseman, so with three, I'm Safe. So yeah, the safest way is to just they're not taking a defenseman. Vancouver's gonna take a forward 100%. 100%. They want Malholtra. But if Stenberg's there, they may take Stenberg instead of Malholtra. They want Malholtra. There's no secret to it. Right. So why would I take a defenseman at two? It's almost like an I know you're not a football guy, but if there's if if there's two quarterbacks in a draft and you're not going to draft a quarterback in those two spots, you're almost an asshole if you don't trade back and get more assets if you're not going to take the quarterback because the quarterbacks are going to go in that spot.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

But we can drop a few pegs and have forwards go ahead of them. We saw Seth Jones, we saw Bone Byron drop. Bone Byron was the concern. He was a second overall pick. I'm I know that. I don't mean that they dropped 15 slots. I'm saying they were supposed to go second overall, first or second overall, and they didn't they they picked another team pick forwards over picking a defenseman. They fell a few slots.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

As good as someone may think Chase Reed or Keaton Verhoff are, they're not, they shouldn't be taken second in this draft. There's there's a clear one and two. And you and listen, you could flip up who you have one and two, but those two guys are clearly above everybody else in this draft. Who was who was taken after Owen Power? Do you remember? No. So but I'm gonna go through this assuming nobody's traded, and I'm going to assume that Mike Greer is going to still just take the best player available and that he's not going to take the defenseman. So if we go McKenna one, because I just I agree with Sam Cosantino, who has Stenberg ahead of McKenna, where he says, I don't think that there is a GM who has the stones to take Stenberg over McKenna. Because there would just be too much pressure on that GM passing on the North American.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Well, if anyone's going to take Spemberg over McKenna, it's going to be it's going to be Toronto because he the Sundee and the Swedish connection there.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Wow. I didn't think about that. I didn't think about that at all. But you look at you, see, look at you sitting here saying, I can't add anything to the draft. You just brought up a fucking great. I can't tell you what what I can't tell you what one player does. I haven't seen anywhere else.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

But I could see, I could definitely see that. I mean, I don't see them doing that. I don't see anybody doing it.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

The fan base is already printing up McKenna jerseys.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

I know, but I'm saying like he slept for War 45.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

So anyway, all right. So I so I'm gonna play it safe with this. McKenna goes one, Stemburg goes two, Malholter goes three. I don't again, I don't see Malholter getting past Vancouver. Right. So that means it's Chicago and then us. And to me, that's gonna be well. What does Chicago need? Pull up there.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

They have Bedard, they have the the the uh Frank Nazir.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Well, no, it's the the forwards are done at this point.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

I know, I know so they're looking, so they need a defenseman. They're looking for a defenseman.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

I think they're they can still do anything, but because of where the draft board, like for instance, if Mike Greer does take Chase Reed second, and Vancouver does still take Malholcher third, and Stenberg's there at four, Chicago's gonna run to the podium.

Trade Down Ideas And Pick Value

SPEAKER_01 47:43

I'm trying to figure out I I was racking my brain the other day to find out what the range I don't think they would, I don't think San Jose would do it. But what you would have to give up to get that to get them to flip space.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

So here's so here's here's where I'm at on this. If the Rangers were to trade Braden Schneider now, before the draft, what would that what would that return be? First round pick.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Pretty much similar to what they got for Brady Shea.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

You probably get a first round pick. You get a first round pick, and I think you would still also get a prospect on top of that. Uh I do.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Yeah, he's he's I know that we only got a first round pick for Brady Shea, and Brady Shea had better better offensive numbers.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Brady Shea also had five years at five and my other point.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Brady Shea was also under contract.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

You still that wasn't a good contract. That wasn't a good contract, though. That was high.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

So to them, the contract was worth it. I I don't disagree with you. I I hear what I hear what you're saying. I'm not saying that they're gonna get someone's best prospect, but they would get a prospect, they get something else, yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Okay. So if you think the co so what would be the cost of a team moving from two to five, would it be just another first round pick? We don't have see, we don't have a lot of basis to go off of here because very has anyone ever traded out of number two in the last 20 in the last 10-15 years? Right, that you really have to go back that far to see someone who's trading who traded knowingly the second overall pick.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

I mean, I can't remember. I can't, I mean, I can't remember the last time a team traded down in the in the top 10. The islanders they traded their pick away completely, they didn't trade down, they traded Romanoff. Oh, okay, that's right, that's right. But I don't remember them. I don't well, they traded down like what Steve was saying for Josh Bailey. How long ago was that?

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Oh days 2009.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Yeah, I hear talking 20 almost 20 years ago. Um, I don't remember the last time a team traded out of the top 10. So If someone in the chat room can or or or listening can let me know, I would love to know.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

So I wonder what would it cost you more than Schneider? Because here's how Schneider benefits San Jose. San Jose just missed the playoffs by what two games, three games. They need a right-hand shot defenseman now. So you're giving them a 24-year-old right-hand shot defenseman who's about to enter his prime, who's played in the playoffs already, who plays a physical style. I get people love in this fan base, we love to kill defensemen. It's just what we do, we'll kill everybody. Yeah, so you can Schneider is coveted around the league, and there's a reason for it. Correct. So it helps them in the in the short term by they they get to fill the gap and get someone in their lineup right now who's gonna help them immediately and in the next, you know, two for the next still for the next five years. Like it's not like they're getting a 30-year-old to fill a gap, they're getting a 24-year-old. Yeah, so he's gonna be part of that part of their future, and then they still get to draft whether it's either Chase Reed or Bearhob. It it depends on how much does San Jose value one of those two.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

That's what I see. That was uh what I was gonna tell you. Yeah, if they're San Jose values two guys equally, right? You know, they say we can go either way on these guys, either one, we're good with either guy, right? Then you're you're in a better position. It makes sense because I think if Chase Reed is there at four, I think he's going to Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

He might.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

I he might. They won't pass. We don't know.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

I can't see them pet, dude. I I'll put this to you right now. Let's say San Jose, let's say San Jose took Verhoff and Malholcher went to Vancouver, and Chicago goes and they take Reed, and Stenberg falls to us falls to us at five. I will do a live video of me running naked through the streets. Well, if Reed falls to five. No, if if uh Stenberg fell to falling to five. Well, we just went through it. If McKenna went one, if San Jose liked Vera, what if San Jose liked the 6'4 defenseman Verhoff as their guy and took him two, and Malholtrus still went three, and you're saying Chicago would take Chase Reed with and then but there's nothing, then you got the Sedines in Vancouver.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

They're gonna pass up on the suite too. Malholter works for Vancouver.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Malholtress's father works for Vancouver.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

I uh you really think they're drafting this guy based off of who works there?

SPEAKER_02 52:28

No, all crazy based off the entire thing. I think that's crazy. It's everywhere, it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

If I'm the Rangers, I'm making the phone call. I'm saying what is it, what would it take to get the second? We'll trade you five, we'll trade you Schneider. What else do you want? You want the second first round pick? I would do anything I could to get to, I would do that's a lot. I know, I know this kid is as good as they're saying he is, you're not wrong. I move doing moving heaven and earth to get to that second pick.

SPEAKER_02 52:53

You're not wrong. And when you say we don't find a superstar forward anywhere else, but here's what here's again when you said earlier in this show we don't have the assets. Chicago's the only team who might have more. And is Chicago in a position where they feel they need to move to two? And does Chicago have a ready-made 24-year-old right-hand shot defenseman to offer San Jose?

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Do they? No, no, I know, but they then they could just turn around and say, well, we'll just pick. Again. Unless they like Chris Reed and they feel that San Jose's uh Chicago's gonna take Chase Reed. If they like Chase Reed the most, if that's what I'm hearing, that's what I'm just what I've heard, right? That that's the guy they want. If Chase Reed falls, if they know Chase Reed is going to Chicago, then they're not gonna trade with us. And that's where the intel comes in, where you say, Well, do they like Carvels also? Is it Carol's Carvels? How do you pronounce this guy's name? Carols. Carol's, even though it's spelled like Carvel.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

Carel's, yeah. No, it's it's Carol's.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Isn't it C-A-R-B-E-L? No, there's no V. C-A-R-E-L-S. Oh, all right. So whoever I someone saw someone post, they must have spelt it wrong. Um C-A-R-E-L-S. Carols. E L S. All right. I see. That's why I didn't do well in school. Um the uh uh unless they like I said they there's two guys that they really like that they'll be fine with, but if it's just Reed and Reed only and and Chicago feels that Reed is the premium defenseman, then you don't have a chance.

SPEAKER_02 54:47

That's the thing. It's it's very unlikely that it happens. I'm just saying it's I know I think it's zero. I don't think it's zero. I don't think it's zero.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

I think it's as close to zero. They have a better they had a better chance of winning the first and second overall pick than that happening.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

I guess I will well here's the framework. The framework is Drury and Greer are friends, correct? Yeah, so right there, you know, conversations correct. No matter it's not like he's not taking the phone call, where he may not take the phone call from but I I really wonder if Drury.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

I we want we don't even know Drury values Stenberg.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

100%.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

We mean not, he might be one of the defensemen.

Top Defensemen Breakdown At Five

SPEAKER_02 55:28

This is all speculation. We have no idea what anyone's thinking about anything. So you're right. All right, so let me keep going through this here. So we're through the first two guys. To me, Chase Reed, so he's 6'2, 180 pounds. So he's not one of these small defensemen, but he has unbelievable agility with the puck. So think of I'm trying to think because I don't want to compare anyone to Cal McCar. Cal McCar to me is when you talk about generational like how about Heiskaden. See, I think he's a little I think he's a little more shifty and faster than Heiskaden.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

I think he has a little, I think he has 6'2 and shifty. That eliminates a few people.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Um so he walks the blue line as good as Adam Fox does, except he's 6'2, 180 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Jake Sanderson.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Sanderson plays a little tougher. So Jake Sanderson to me reminds me a lot more of Carson Carrolls. I love him. I'd say this is why I love Car Carroll's hits. So Carrolls will put up 70 points and beach up. He's Drew Dow. So Carson Carrolls, I'll get to him, but to me, he's very again the prospect of Drew Down. Right. Not all of Famer off the bat.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Based off what you've seen, could they is is it is it well, the three defensemen that we think they're going to be available in that spot? You like all three? I love all three. Oh, we can't.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

I can't go. The range. I guess is this like a Evan Bouchard Dobson situation? This is think of all right, think of going into a draft right now, right? Uh and the three guys, remember, remember what these kids looked like when they were 17, 18 years old, and what you thought of them in their draft years. And the Rangers are on the clock, and you have Alex Petrangelo, Drew Dowdy, and Kale McCarr as your as your three guys you could pick. As 18-year-olds, not what we know now.

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Right. I'm just trying to remember when there were three defensemen available at the same time, and it was and it was Dobson, it was that was in Shaw. I know that, but I'm just trying to think of three, but three defensemen that two defensemen off the that think of what it was mc think of when it was McCarr and Heisken and going back to back 3-4.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

Right. It's more it's to me, it's sim, it's it rings true to that.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Just really random question. Yeah, have you watched any of the Buffalo series at all?

SPEAKER_02 58:05

No.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

Okay, I was wondering how how Byron played uh as we're playing. No idea. All right, I just popped. I just saw him in one of the draft things I was looking up, and I was wondering, I was curious how he how he was playing.

SPEAKER_02 58:15

Yeah, but so Owen Power for that. Whether we wound up with Carols, Verhoff, or Reed. Well Schmidt. Schmidt's so Schmitz, uh Schmidt. I if we had the eighth pick, I would love Schmidt's.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

But if we had the eighth pick, they're taking the center from BU.

SPEAKER_02 58:35

They still might take him at five.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

They might still take him at five. I'm sorry, keep interrupting you. Go.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

No, it's all right. Um but that's where I'm at on all three defensemen. Again, I'm not saying that because I just mentioned three Hall of Famers to you. So it's impossible for me to say all three of these guys are Hall of Fame defensemen when none of them is the NHL.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Well, like we talked about. I mean, you saw you saw Jake Sanders in the profile. Went went five and six, and then someone else went to the five.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Did Drydale go six or did he go eight? I think Drydale went.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

I think Drydale went six. I thought they went back to back. I looked it up the other day, so that's why. Um, what draft was that? You remember?

SPEAKER_02 59:18

No.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

Mason McTavish was another center, by the way, that moved up the list too, Sean, and went very early.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

Yeah, McTavish went third. Um, no, you're right. Yeah, Jarsdale won six. What draft was that? 20. Who's the first?

unknown 59:36

20.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

Lafaynier. The Lafayneer draft.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Oh, it was the La Frenier Drift. Wow, really? I so the other guy, uh, there was who was the other defenseman that was. Sanderson's great. I love Sanderson. Oh, Kate and Gooley. So another defenseman wasn't taken until Caton Gooley at 16.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

But see, all right, so let's I'll give you the 2020 draft as a beautiful example.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Look at Alexander.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

You have you have Drysdale. Now listen, Drysdale's resurrected his career a little bit with Philly. He's played very well. But Holtz didn't make it. Jack Quinn. Eh. I mean, nothing. Yeah, he's an NHL player, but he's nothing great. Rossi is a nice player, but he's now.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

Jack Quinn has 148 points in 260 games.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

Right. Solid, but nothing great. You know, they took him as the eighth overall pick.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

No, no, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Cole Perfetti, nice player.

unknown 1:00:30

Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

To put it in perspective, though, Sean. He's got 100 points less than Lafreniere, and he's played in 200 less games. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

Power play time. Anyway, not getting to that. I'm trying to get to my point here. You keep interrupting me. I stopped. I'm just telling you about the defenseman. You get to 12 and 13, you get Anton Lundell, who's a stud, and Seth Jarvis, who's a stud. So sometimes sometimes when you get past that first five, six, and then you're drafting based off projection and not that after that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

This draft kind of blows my my theory out of the water a little bit.

Centers And Forwards Worth The Risk

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

But you see that a lot where you see that eight to ten, because I think you're still trying to take guys that you project their their physical abilities. And then you get the guys like Seth Jarvis who physically aren't anything special, but they're just they're so smart. And yeah, I hate having to talk positively about Seth Jarvis. Bothers me. All right, so we'll move on. So oh Caleb Malholtra obviously is uh someone to discuss here. He's not a number one center. I have never seen Rock again. You're not a football guy, but anyone who's listening to this that you know follows the NFL draft and all that fun stuff. Quarterbacks during draft season get completely, completely overhyped. And it's a machine almost, it's almost a marketing machine, like someone who's running for office. That's how badly the Jets got their you know hoodwinked with Zach Wilson and the the media machine that followed him. Tim Couch was great, and Tim Couch uh tore his arm up in Cleveland with no offensive line. Media machine, but here you go. So you have media machines who blow these prospects up, they put plaster their face and highlights every two seconds, everywhere you watch, right? And you start to believe they're better than they are. Right now, Caleb Malholtra is draft eligible playing on the best team, pretty much the best team, stack team in the OHL. The OHL is not what it used to be. That's number one. Um, a lot of the OA, you know, the prime OHL players have jumped to get NIL money in college, so it's not as quality of a league as it used to be. And he's playing on it, he's playing on a stacked team. He put up great numbers, he had an unbelievable statistical playoffs. Okay. OHL playoffs, like two points a game. Give him credit for it. I still think that he profiles more as a 2C than as a one C. 6'2 when he's all filled out, it'll probably be 210, 215. He'll be a moose. He'll be a winning like Nasm Codri. Like a Nasm Cadre type of player. Okay. Can you win a Stanley Cup with Nasm Kadri as your one C? No, but you can win a Stanley Cup with him as your two C. Oh, that'd be good. Yeah, he'll be an excellent two C in the league, playing every situation. He'll put up points. You know, we'll I'm not saying he doesn't have offense, but I don't think he has the offense to carry a team. So would I be comfortable drafting him at five or six? Yeah, be comfortable there. I wouldn't draft him at three, which Vancouver looks like they're gonna do. And they might surprise us. I mean, we don't know. I mean, with everyone's saying they are. Dude, I will be shocked beyond shocked if if they take one of the defensemen over Malholtra. I'm assuming Stenberg's gone. If Stenberg falls to them at three, you know, if San Jose takes the defenseman and they tick Stenberg over Malholtra, I would say they were smart.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:21

You're taking Malholtra at five.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

No, I would take a defense.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

I would take a defense. I'm kind of like, I'm kind of like, I I've always I've watched Vierhop. I I watched some of his highlights. He's the guy that I've keyed on. As just, I just feel like the Rangers lack that uh that the size and the and the I just think he'd be the perfect fit to play behind Fox. Like I'd be I'd be fine with that. I'm I'd be I'd be I'd be good with that. He's gonna put up some points. You don't need a power play guy. You don't, but that's what he is. He is a power play guy. You don't need a power play, you don't need a power.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

So he's 6'4, he's more offensive than defensive. So anyone who's gonna anyone who's gonna sit here and tell you that Verhoff.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

So then that may that may be a problem long term.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

Verhoff is not a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

I thought he was more like Headman in the sense where he had a physical edge to him and he put it up some offense.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

Well, here's in fairness, and we would have seen more of this had he stayed in juniors as opposed to playing against 22 and 23-year-old kids in college as a 17-year-old. You can't be physical. How could a 17-year-old be physical against you know, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

Graduate graduate seniors. Well, you think you draft him at 17, you draft him uh resigning Ryan. Okay, this is this the one is he the one that always breaks my chops about Ryan Reeves. Is he the one is is he the are you the I always get someone cracked breaking my balls about Ryan Reeves. Uh I can't stand Ryan Reeves. Uh I lost my train of thought. Thank you. Appreciate that. I uh I think if he's 17 now and you draft him, he may not be ready to rock and roll for three years, two years, three years. And then you're at the tail end of Fox's contract.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

No, I agree with that. I'm not drafting this guy based off of where they're going to sign in a few.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:27

I'm telling myself, I'm trying to re-talk myself into this whole thing and trying not to be short-sighted.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:32

Because sometimes I think the initial reaction is, oh, we we can't sign this guy because so blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

When you think of Alex Petrangelo, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Solid two-way player, solid two-way player.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

He's not he's not fast, he's not slow, but he's not. But he's a guy you win a championship with. So Keaton, Keaton Verhoff to me, and he's not overly physical, right? You know, Petrangelo plays D, but he's not overly physical. He's not a punishing defensive. The bet biggest hit I've ever seen. Yeah. He's he's not overly, he's not overly physical, but he's excellent defensively. He clears the crease out. You know, Petrangelo puts up 70 points, runs a power play, and like you said, he's you win a championship with a guy like that. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

And that's honestly what they're lacking on their second pairing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

When Verhoff is 25 years old, seven years from now, that's how young this fucking kid is. Like right, he just missed being part of next year's draft. He's so young.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

But my my thing, my only my I They would have to, I think, if they were able to down the road, I guess it really all be contingent of what happens, they would have to try to see about getting him some kind of some some decent power play minutes at some point. You'd have him run your second power play when he got here. Well, the whole 30 or 13 seconds of it. Or do you think they would get away from that? I think they get away from that. I think now Panarin that here, and if they don't bring in another star-type guy, they may not have one power play that's going to play two or so.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:10

They had Fox pretty much play the whole power play because they didn't have a second guy to run it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

And Fox didn't play the power play, if you remember, the first his first season, right? No, D'Angelo did. So, I mean, they I could be part of it too, but Fox ran the second power play. Is that the guy you would go for? If everything falls in into all in order, or you're going with Carol's because he's the left-handed shot and you feel like he he's more of a need.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

So no, I'm not drafting any of these guys based on need.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

I do need a left shot defenseman, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

Fuck man, this is this is this is why I can't be a GM. I feel that Carols has the highest floor of the three. Okay. Like, for instance, Chase Reed. He could be Delzado, like you said. It could be Michael Delzado. We don't know. We don't know, but in fairness, we don't know about anybody, right? So what when I think of when I think of what's this guy's floor, like Othman, when I said he his shot either could beat an NHL goalie or it can't, and if it can't, what else is he good for? Right. If Chase Reed is not gonna put up 70 plus points in this league, what else is he gonna do? He's not he's he's not a bad defender. He's yeah, he's not he's not Tony D'Angelo defensively. So let's not pigeonhole every time we sit here and say something.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

Offensive either D'Angelo's 5'11, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

But just saying he's not he's not bereft of of offense, he's not gonna hurt you defensively, right? But similar to like an Adam, similar to how Fox is. You know, Fox is an offensive defenseman, he's a little bit more two-way now as he's getting older than he was when he came in. But to me, that's kind of how Reed is defensively. I wouldn't I I wouldn't have him out there killing penalties as my top penalty kill guy, the way the Rangers somehow keep putting Fox out there for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

They did a better job of, I think, about the skate.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:13

They did. But they can't, they have and then with actual Verhoff. The question with him will be his skating. Can he can he get better? Most people do, and they work on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

And from what from Rangers love players that can't skate.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

Fits right in, right? 6'4 doesn't really 6'4 doesn't play that physical and can't move.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

I've seen him pick almost on every board at five. Except for one, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

See, to me, with Carroll's uh his floor is he's still gonna be he's still fast. What's his height? 6'2, you're not losing anything. He's 6'2, he can fly, uh he's got a great shot, uh, and he hits people and he can play D. So at the very least, they're gonna get a second pairing left-handed shot. Defenseman who's gonna put up 40 points. That's his floor. He can be a number one defenseman and put up 70 plus points and run your power play and and be you know, Charlie McAvoy. Because that McAvoy, Doughty, that type of defenseman is where Carroll's kind of fits in. Verhoff taller, leaner, he's more petroangle, you know, Petroangelo, uh a lesser Rasmus Dalin. Like these are bigger guys that aren't necessarily overly physical, they're not overly fast, they're cerebral. Hetman's physical, and he's 6'6, not 6'4. He's 6'6, 240 pounds. He's a he's a monster.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

But it took him a long time to get going, a lot like a lot like Dallin.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:01

Well, when you have that height, it takes you a long time to grow into your body. Yeah, look at how long it took Matthew Robinson just to make the NHL because it took him a long time to fill out 6'5. It's it's it's not easy.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

You know, on a really on a real sidebar, have you happened to take a look at Puck Pedia at the Rangers on unrostered defensemen?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:25

No, because I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

I I it just it's hilarious. It would when you have some free time, look at this. It's Jackson Dorrington and Brandon Morrow. That's it. They don't have any other defensemen.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

But what do I care about? That we have so many young guys that are already on our NHL roster on defense that we don't have room for.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:42

None of them are gonna be able to play in Hartford next year.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

I don't care about Hartford. I care about the Rangers.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:48

You don't care about Hartford. I never care about the HL.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

The AHL is slowly, slowly, slowly going to become less and less a developmental league. I don't agree with that. With NIL money, and these kids can stay in college to the 23 years old. You're gonna see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:03

Maybe with that, but I I don't I don't care about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:05

Agents are steering their clients clear of the AHL because they don't want to play against 30-year-old pluggers that are to have to kill them.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

Well, they don't have 30-year-old guys anymore, they can't dress that many 30-year-old players anymore. There's a limit to how many guys over with NHL experience that can be dressed in the in the AHL lineup.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:20

When did this happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:21

This past season.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:22

Oh, so I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

Yeah, that's smart on their point. My point, my send their players there. You know, the problem is is when you're when your farm team's a freaking dumpster fire and you have nobody fucking down there that can come up and help you, that's a fucking problem. No, morrow's down there. He can't help us. They wanted they they brought in two guys to oh they fit to Ireo when he was already.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Yeah, they get they'll have a Oreo down there.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:48

He's well, and listen, he's a guy that needs to go through waivers, but that's another story. My point was was that they they're they have so many needs that it's not just one thing, it's just it's just it's embarrassing to to what that I then hard. We didn't even talk about Hartford's the whole culture stuff getting fired.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:07

I don't want to talk about them at all. Fucking hate them. I'm gonna talk about AHL hockey.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:12

You're being short-sighted with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

I want to talk about the draft. I want to talk about this draft.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:18

Yeah, but Sean, we could talk about the draft and the blue to a blue in the face. We have no idea what these kids are gonna do. Zero.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:25

And whether Hartford, whether Hartford goes 82 and oh or not doesn't affect my life or the Rangers' life at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

It affects the Rangers' life big time. How that means that the players that are down there are producing and playing well. They did, and they called them all up. I forget who it was that said that even today.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:42

Who else?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:42

Perot they called up with the last five games of the season.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:46

Yeah, they called up Grand. They they called up uh Hell.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:49

Gary Terrence, is he called up yet? How about Bo Gruel? Is he still down there?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:54

He played who'd he played for this year? He played, he played in the league. Is it Montreal? I don't remember. Buffalo. All right, let's let's move on here. Uh, so Albert Smith's love the kid, six three, left-handed shot defenseman. He's raw offensively. I don't think he'll ever be like a PP1 guy, but he'll give you offense. Like he's more offensively, I would say kind of like Keandre Miller, where you wouldn't want the guy running your power play, but he does have offensive ability. Yeah. I loved what he said in the world juniors, uh, because he's from Latvia, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:34

Yeah, he's Latvian.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:35

And when they interviewed him, they said, you know, when he was about to go up against Team Canada or USA, I think it was Canada. And they said, Yo, you see all these big names out there, you know. How do you feel about going up against them? And his response was, How do you think they feel about having to go up against me? And I love that response.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:54

We also liked Leah Sanderson when he threw his second place.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:56

Yeah, exactly. Right. So you take it, you take it with the grid, but you just love you. I like the I like the Eric's.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

I'm not gonna lie, I like that. I like that Leah Serson did that. So I know people didn't like it. I'm like, listen, I said that's my captain. Second best, here you go. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:13

Yeah, that's that's my captain one day. I thought that kid was gonna be the ranger captain. So incredible. Shows what I know when it comes to any of this, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

It's um it's really incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:24

But Smith's, I think, will be a very, very good. I think he's a three. I think he can be like uh Mark Stahl was an excellent third defenseman on on a good team. Like on a cup team, he's probably a three. Correct. He can be a left-handed two if you have an elite one on the right side. Like, I think he'll be fine. Um, I just I don't think that he's I think he's a class below what Carol Sverhoff and Reed will give you. Tynan Lawrence. I'm because I was of the opinion a lot a lot of people who are listening are on Tynan Lawrence, where yeah, he beat up the the USHL, which is a lower league than you know Canadian juniors or college, goes to college, struggles at first with B U. Um, so I text Steve Cornianos, just basically saying to him, you know, watch the Rangers go out and take the B U kid. Are you throwing your remote? You know, you see that. I like him a lot, got him in the top 10, but he isn't a good fit. He'll excel at checking and face-offs, and the coach will want to stay that way. Well, the coach will want him to stay that way. He's closer to Brett Howden than he is Joe Sakik. So you split the difference, he's Trochek. So he's gonna be someone very much in the same ilk as how I kind of described uh Malholcher before.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

He'll probably I don't want I'm not drafting Vinny Trochek in the top 10.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:57

I get it. So he'll be a good NHL player, not a not a 1C, not a different way.

Small Skill Bets And Swedish Wildcards

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

If you get you know in between the in the 10 to 20 range, that's where that's where you know he's a guy that's gonna play in the league and play in the league for a long time, right? But not not give you a lot of high-end production.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:20

Now, here's my wild card. Bjork. If the Rangers draft Vigo Bjork at five, this will be a lot for me, exactly how I felt when the Rangers drafted Kraftsov over Wallstrom. Where everyone expected it to be Wallstrom. If you pull 20 people, all 20 people would have said Wallstrom. Now, but at the time when they took Krafts, like, holy shit, they actually they man, they they got this guy who was just such a fast riser coming into the draft who showed unbelievable ability in the playoffs over there, smartest guy in the room. Now, Vigo Bjork has pretty much the best numbers of any draft eligible Swede ever. But he's what 5'10? 5'10. So my comp for him is Sebastian Aho because he plays very much the same, same size. If he was an inch and a half taller, he'd be top three. He'd easily be in the top five. It wouldn't even be a question that he'd be in the top five.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:34

Hey, listen, Matt Zuccarello's played what, 15 years in the league, and he, you know, he's not a big guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:40

Well, Sebastian Aho is 5'10, 175 pounds, and he's a legit 1C on a team that's in the conference finals every other year.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

Yep, two wins away from the conference final.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:53

But they're always there, they're they're a perennial contender. So his offense, his offense is great, and he's a great two-way player. But he's someone who I think will score, put up 80, 85 points as a center in the league. Okay, and he'll do everything in and he plays a 200-foot game, right? But teams will question size.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:20

He came out of nowhere. I I hadn't seen his name that much. The guy Randolph. Daxon Randolph. I almost called him. I almost called him Zach Randolph. Rudolph. Daxon Rudolph. Jackson Rudolph. That's it. Daxon with a dig Daxon, Daxon Rudolph.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:36

Um he's the other, he's the other Canadian center, uh, defenseman that's up there with Carrolls. Where a lot of offense, good size. So, what is he? He's 6'2, right-handed shot, put up 78 points in 68 games in the uh in the dub.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:55

So now we know why Fox didn't go in the first round because they're not drafting a 5'11 defenseman in the first round. No, none of these defensemen are under 6'2. No, they're all over 6'2, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:07

Everyone's the first one that's under, so Ryan Lynn. See, they have Ryan Lynn 12. He's not going 12. He's not going until late teens, early 20s. Um, the guy to watch out for is this guy, Xavier Vienawave. He's 5'11, 157 pounds. But he's like, he could be like the Hudson brothers. He has unbelievable offensive ability. Lane Hudson's six. Pretty small. Lane Hudson isn't quite. But that's who this kid. Like they have him at 19. Let me see where where Craig Button and Cosantino are.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

So now do we confirm where our second first round pick, like the range where we're going to be in?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:49

23 to 27. It's not going to be 23 because all these division winners seem to be winning these series so far. Each division winner that loses, we move up a pick.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:06

If all the division winners win, where we 27. Well, Colorado and Carolina are winning. Um, so now I know Buffalo was losing four to two. I don't know what their what the final was for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:19

No, Buffalo won four to two. Oh, they won four to two. Sorry, you're right. You're right. And Vegas is up one game to nothing. So it looks like all four so far.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:34

Was Vegas a division winner? Oh, I didn't realize that. Yep. I thought they finished second.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:39

Nope. So if all four division winners win, then we're picking 27. So Craig Button has VLANAWEV, however it's pronounced, at 29. Cosantino has him. I'll bet you he has him higher. At 20. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:03

That goes to show you just how much I really would love to go back and look at all these guys drift. Like, we should probably let's see, we should save these and like in a few years go back and look to see where these guys were taken and what their career what how their careers panned out to see how off how on they really were.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:24

Let me see if this will give it to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:30

Um like I would love to know like where they had um trying to give a good example. Like I don't know if you would go back all the way to 2017 with like Leah Sanderson, like where I don't think anyone had Leah Sanderson in the top 10. But I what I remember. But remember when we got we got that pick, so I wasn't even thinking about getting drafting that high.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:55

That was Derek Stefan.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:57

Yeah. And they made that trade the day before the day before the draft.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:00

The day of the morning of the draft.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:02

The morning of the draft, that's right. The morning of it of the draft.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:06

I was in Ocean City, Maryland with my now wife. We were just dating back then, but we were in Ocean City, and we were getting ready to go to Secrets, a fucking awesome place that's out in Ocean City, Maryland. And the trait comes across, and I'm like, fuck, now I gotta figure out a way to get back in the room for the first round because I was like, Oh, we're drafting you know, 21st, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:31

You know, and she allowed you to go watch the draft?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:34

Yeah, she worshipped the ground I walked on back then a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:43

Are you gonna be able to watch the draft since it's a Friday night this year? Yeah. Oh, all right. I wasn't sure. Yeah, where are we going? No, I know a lot of times you have like you do like, you know, no you watch TV together and you do your thing, and blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:00

No, those days are over. Oh where is why don't they give me this is rip riveting podcasting right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:11

Yeah, well who else anyone else on here that that has caught your eye that you think uh could squeak into the top ten?

Late First Targets And Sleeper Names

SPEAKER_02 1:25:23

Yeah, let me bring this list back up again. Okay, so I'll just go through real quick some of the guys I think that I like. I will I won't put a label on them as far as where I think they'll go. Just these are players that I I wouldn't mind seeing play for the Rangers in not at five, but in any capacity, right? Uh so Bjork, I really like a lot. Rudolph, Rudolph will be a safe second pairing guy. Ethan Belchetz is someone who's very intriguing if he slips. Because he this guy was picked to go top six, top seven all season. And then I forget whether he broke he broke his collarbone or he broke his leg. He broke a bone, missed the rest of the season, 6'5, 230 pounds already as an 18-year-old.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:13

Could that be like a Pasternak situation? Didn't Pasternak get hurt in his draft year?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:19

I don't I don't remember the circumstances around Pasternak.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:21

I thought he got hurt in his draft year. That's why he that's why he fell.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:24

Yeah, but they already have Belchets here at 11. Button has him at 13. So it's not percent of it. So I lost Constantino already, but he was someone who was you know 10 picks higher two months ago. So does he continue to fall? Yeah, we'll see. Oscar Hemming, I like 6'4, 200 pounds. Um, but he's a he'll be a depth guy, he'll be a third line center. Nothing, nothing crazy. Adam Novotny has a lot of offense. I'd like him. Malty Gustafson, six foot four, left-handed shot defenseman. Um, stay-at-home guy, not an offensive guy, but a shutdown type defenseman. Elton Hermanson, people are talking about. I've never seen him play. I've never even seen a highlight on him, so I can't really speak to him. But apparently he's climbing. He's climbing, he's climbing boards. Oliver Savonto, similar to what I said about Hemming before, 6'3, 210-pound center, probably profiles as a 3C. Wyatt Cullen is the name to watch. He is flying up track boards.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:38

Matt Cullen's son. Yeah, I've heard that all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:40

Yeah, he's Matt Cullen's son, and he's I've heard that name.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:45

I've heard the name starting to fly. Yes. Where do they have where does he have him right now? 20. He ain't going in the top 10 at this point, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:54

He might. He might climb up to eight to the eight to eight to twelve range. So here's the and I'll give you three interesting names. And I don't know what to make of them. Nikita Klepov and the two Ruck brothers. Liam Ruck and Marcus Ruck. The reason I say that is where's his numbers? Nikita Klepov, 97 points in the OHL. Liam Ruck, 104 points in the WHL. Marcus Ruck 108 points. They're the only guys who put up numbers like this, aside from uh our guy from Flint. Nathan Aspinall. So these are the only three guys that beat Aspinall out for points in all of the CHL. But they're these kids are draft eligible. So you know it's they put up numbers. Yeah, they put up numbers. But I don't know, you know, I don't know what substance is there, why they're ranked so low, even with these numbers. Now Craig Button has Liam Ruck 10.

unknown 1:29:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:14

And Marcus Ruck 12. And Klepov 20. So he Craig Button has these two kids way higher than everybody else. I'll put it to you. Tankathon has Liam Ruck 29 and Marcus Ruck 32.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:38

Wow. So they're in our wheelhouse after our second first round pick if we still have it.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:44

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:45

Okay. That's something to think look into. Another and the rain, and the and the rangers obviously know these players because they play in the same league as a few of their prospects that they that they followed.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:57

They're in the WHL.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:58

Right. Oh, they're not on Flint.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:02

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:02

Oh, I thought they were on Flint. I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:05

No, I'm saying that they beat him out for the whole season. Oh, they beat him out.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:09

Okay, okay, I got it. All right, sorry, I misunderstood.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:12

And then you got uh Maddox Stagna, who is from the queue, 6'4, 200 pounds center, good offense. He was a point a game player in uh for Quebec Ramparts. So you got someone who's big, some offense. Again, this is for the second pick, right? Not to be considered any.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:32

And they have a second round pick, right? That's Carolinas.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:35

60th. Yeah. So I'll go to the I'll go to Tankathon's mock draft here.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:41

Who do they have us taken?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:43

They have us taken Verhoff. Yeah. So here's where their draft is off. There's no chance in the world that Vancouver's taking Chase Re to three. They're not taking another defenseman. It would be asinine for them. They took Wallinder and he already showed that he can play. He had 20 points in 60 games this year as a rookie. And they traded for Boynam. So you're not drafting anybody who's going to unseat Boynam to be your power play guy. And Wallinder's you already use the top five pick on him or top eight pick on him. So there's no way in the world they're drafting Chase Reed.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:19

Or any defenseman. They have their two top defensemen draft, you know, prospects, young guys. Right. They're taking Mount Holtra or Stenberg. They're not taking a anyway. Neither here nor there. Or McKenna, right? So yeah, they have us taking Verhoff over Carroll's and then Smith's. So they have us taking the second.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:41

So what does Tank Don have as the top 10? We'll let we'll end with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:44

Sure. McKenna, Stenberg, Reed, Malholtra, Verhoff, Carol's, Schmidt's, Tynan Lawrence, Vigo Bjork. So Bjork will be great and he'll go to Florida. And uh Oscar Heming. So they actually have Heming going 10th to Nashville. Wow. That'd be so on brand for them. Uh they have us taking Yigor Shilov, Boston University. Commit. Um he had 82 points in 63 games in the queue.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:17

Is he related to Shilov's the goalie for Pittsburgh?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:19

No, it's spelt S-H-I-L-E-B. So we would we would take a 6'1, he's 6'1, 181 pounds. They have that guy, Maddox Stagnay that I like, 6'4, 200 pounds center, would go to pick after us.

Offseason Dominoes And Trade Timing

SPEAKER_01 1:32:35

So before just to kind of put a bow on everything, uh they're gonna it looks like from all the counts, they're gonna probably be in they're gonna get somebody, they're gonna get somebody good, was which was what we wanted. They're gonna get one of the top three defensemen, or they're gonna get one of the top four forwards, right? It's this that's safe to say. Where do you see, and we'll we'll we'll end here, but where do you see, like, what do you think the next domino to fall is? And and how close do you think to the draft is gonna happen? Do you think this is like something that happens weeks, like weeks like during the playoffs? Do you think this is something that happens draft day? Do you think this happens something that happens July 1st? Like how like the moves, the the corresponding moves to where to where this season goes, like what do you think of the first domino to fall would be?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:26

Like, do we trade Chocek? Do we trade Schneider? These types of moves, they're not gonna happen until after the finals. You have better recall on this stuff than I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:34

Well, Krider was traded during the finals last year.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:37

During the finals, correct. So I guess it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:40

It was an off day, but they he was traded during the finals.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:43

So then it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:45

I just wanted your opinion. I yeah, I I I don't know what this guy's gonna do. I I I have no feeling.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:51

I expect nothing to happen until the day before the day of the draft. Like I'm I'm aware things probably will be.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:01

You think a lot of heavy lifting. I mean, for all things considered, as far as fielding a if this is a retool, which is what they're saying it is, right? They have a lot of heavy lifting.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:14

Yeah, but they don't have it, they have they have these GMs are all having conversations.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:19

I know this ongoing dialogue happening. My feeling is are they all the moves going to happen the day the day after the final ends, which could be the what the 15th of June till July 1st, July 3rd? Because you know that you know once July 10th rolls around, it's that's it. Not maybe not even a lot. Yeah, yeah, go to the cottage. Yeah, yeah, no, it's I just feel like that's a lot of work to be done in in a in a three-week space. Well, the groundwork is already being laid as we speak, and I think that we also would agree that a lot of the groundwork was laid at the trade deadline. And Drury was the one, it was the one nugget, the one nugget that Drury gave us during his press conference when he said that the um about the about the there's more teams available at the after the trade deadline, blah blah blah. The players are willing to take players off their roster, so on and so forth. It's actually the one thing he gave us a kind of glimpse into the trade deadline, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:22

And the one thing he didn't say, because he can't say it, so I don't want to shit on him for not saying it, but the one thing that he didn't say, the one point he didn't make there, how many GMs right now that either just missed out on the playoffs or got eliminated in the first round that feel they could have gone further had they made the move to get Trochek, had they made the move to get Schneider, are kicking themselves that they didn't make that type of move, and now they're a little bit more on the hot seat and need to go out and make moves. Right. Do some of these, you know, prospect you know, hugging prospect hugging does that hug get a little looser, knowing all right, well, I'm just throwing it out there using Detroit as an example. You're telling me Detroit couldn't have couldn't have better themselves from JT Comfer or Andrew Cop as their 2C, that Trochek wouldn't have helped that team. They were a playoff team. They choked, they choked down the stretch, right? But they were missing that guy, they were missing the depth. If that first line couldn't score, then they didn't score.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:33

So I don't know how much Trochek makes. I he does. I mean Trochek's the type of guy who's a nice finishing piece to an already great team. Like I said, he was a version of Nick Benino. He's a third line center on a great team.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:51

No, no, I think he's better than Nick Benino.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:54

Uh maybe he's better than Nick Benino, Sean, but he's not a second line center on a great team. He's not. I know I know I know that you're you have that you have this love with for him and this ability, and I respect that, but you cannot tell me on a truly great team, he's your second line center. I I I just don't see it. I don't want to keep I'm not gonna argue about something we argued about for four years, but you're telling me all right, put it to you this way.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:21

You're telling me that had Colorado not been able to get um Codre back, if the Avalanche had traded for Trochek, that they can't win a cup with Trochek as their two C.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:32

But is it is was Codre their 2C or their 3C?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:35

He's their two.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:36

Who's this? Who's the third line center?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:38

Brock Nelson's the third line center.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:40

I mean, but that's like I mean, they're both interchangeable though.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:44

No, my point is if Trochek was the two C on Colorado, they can't win a cup.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:50

Well, maybe on Colorado we would be. Maybe on Colorado. Well, maybe you pick the one team. The one team the team who's gonna win a cup. Well, let's be fair. I mean, that team is loaded. And let me tell you something. They haven't missed the beat trading ranton in. I mean, that to me, that is a that is a ballsy general manager, but he already the thing, the thing with with these teams, them, Tampa, uh you know, Florida, these teams can be ballsy because they already have a cup in their back pocket. Yes, they can.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:29

I'll tell you why I disagree. Why? That was four years ago already, and they haven't made noise since. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:35

They had Makar and McKinnon. You can make you can you can sacrifice stuff when you have a you mean to tell me look at the look at the the foundation those three teams have the elite, high-end, superstar, hall of fame esque talent that they have. You're doubling down on those teams every time. Pittsburgh did it, uh Chicago did it. They all did all these teams that have won, double down multiple times and won.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:07

Four years in a row, they haven't made a conference finals with all that talent.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:11

Chicago. That's pressure. Uh Colorado.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:16

Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:16

They were hurt last year, weren't they? And if your give was their goal. Four years in a row, but four years in a row now. I know. Well this is year five. All of a sudden, Scott Wedgewood turned into Patrick Watt.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:30

My point is there's pressure.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:31

There is the goalie for three of those.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:33

It buys it buys you a year, maybe two years, where you could sit there and be loosey-goosey, as you would say, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:40

You know, uh, no, but did they go all in those years? I mean, they weren't in for they went in for Brock Nelson last year. Yeah, or they go in the if yeah before. I I don't run, I don't want to sit here and regurgitate all these teams, but right, I feel like when you've won, you can keep doing this with this core, you could keep doubling down because you've already have a cup. You don't agree with that? You don't agree that them winning a championship, you could just keep doubling down and championship is is has expired already in their clock in four years?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:14

Yes. When you have those players, when you have those players, it has no no, no, not when you have McKinnon and McCarthy. Florida right now is like Zito is still right now can do no wrong. Right, they were all hurt this year, they're coming off back-to-back cups. He'll even get a buy next year if they're not good. Three years, uh, uh a third year from now, if they're not back in the playoffs, making noise.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:38

Well, I'm not saying I'm not saying you can miss the playoffs for three years. Colorado's missed the playoffs for every year.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:44

They haven't made it to a conference final, they haven't gotten out of the second round.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:47

Landiscott was hurt, he is he's been hurt. They've had some dealt with some injuries. McCarr had an injury, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:52

Didn't McCart wasn't McCarr hurt part of was it last year, the year before? Listen, they've been a 50-win team and made the playoffs all all four years. Right, not taking anything away with that. They won they won the president's trophy.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:05

And right. But I mean, you don't you don't agree that this is for this is the fourth year.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:11

I'm sorry, I just I misread that. So sorry, they won the president's trophy this year, they're playing in the second round, I see on here. Okay. So yeah, they lost in the first round the year after they won the cup, and they lost in the second round, and then they lost again in the first round last year. Right. So two out of the three years since the cup, they've lost in the first round. That's tough.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:31

There's a lot, there's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:32

Don't tell me there's not pressure on them to win right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:34

No, there's 100% pressure to win them right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:36

So it's not a loose dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:38

I mean, you you think I'll be telling you this series, I could see them laying an A next series because they're playing a very good wild team. Next series, they're gonna play the winner of Vegas, and they have to play if they play Vegas with John Torterra. I mean, that I wouldn't want to play Vegas. But look how many, how much time, how many times has Vegas doubled down? No pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:59

That's all they know.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:01

They keep going.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:03

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. All right, they keep going for it. Yeah, I so I'm misunderstanding what you mean by doubling down.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:08

Meaning they keep going for it every year. They're they're they're expelling assets and acquiring players and not worrying about draft picks, not worrying about prospects, just going page.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:20

We're on the same page. I thought that what you were saying was they already had they could take these chances because they already have the equity of a cup.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:27

Like it doesn't matter if they have the equity of the cup because they've won. But my point is is that they have that championship where they could just they have a core group that they that they've won with that they can just keep trying to keep winning with. Right. That's what I meant by doubling down.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:44

You can just keep going until which is what uh built. Right. No, I agree. Well, that's why they brought Codry back. They last won a cup with Cadry as their two season.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:58

I mean, what I mean, the Flames, they they ate salary for that deal, and they didn't get anything for him.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:04

They want them to move on, they want them to move on from all the veterans.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:08

See, this is why they wanted a bottom out because you look like that are why you look at what's in next year's draft, and you all understand. But that's my point. Trades like that are why the trade deadline fucking sucks. Because you have teams panic at the end and say, Here, take our player, and we're gonna give you money to take him.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:30

I'm like they tanked, they tried to tank Calgary, and it's they won it. The young players they gave a chance to all of some played well. Yeah, Zach Perek was fucking kid's great. Yeah, no, but you're gonna see there's next year's the year where they have the uh 6'5 dominant center. That's Alexis Joseph. He is big, he is fast, he is physical, and he scores like a motherfucker. And he can pass.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:06

Like he's the first year we'll be actually able to beat Calgary. Usually they beat us every year.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:10

And he won't even go number one because this kid Landon DuPont is insane. Defenseman.

Final Takeaways And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_01 1:44:17

Well, we'll be talking for another year. This this same time next year.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:21

Same time, same bad time, same bad channel.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:24

This was fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:26

Uh, I guess we'll we'll kind of play it by ear with what we have going forward. If we're able to secure a uh a prospect guest that can give us some some better understanding of what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:37

Yeah, I'd like to get Ross on and pick it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:39

And if something else comes down the pike that happens between now and then, I mean, I'm gonna look, I'm gonna look at the trade counter for last year to see how many trades are made during the playoffs. I I the Kryder trades the only one I can remember. Yeah, but I'm sure there might have been another one or two minor ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:54

But my only point on that was we could be sitting here the night before the draft, and Trochek and Schneider are still Rangers. And I'm I'm not panicking. I'm I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:05

Oh no, I'm not panicking either. I I my point was just a station piece than than actual. I'm worried about it. All right, pal. All right, guys. Good night. Talk to everybody later.