Jessica Strauss  0:02  
You're listening to the WeedSmart Podcast, where each fortnight we chat about dealing with those pesky we welcome to the weight smart podcast. I'm Jessica Strauss and on this edition of the podcast we're doing our annual overview of how weed seed impact mills performed over harvest. We've done it for the last few years, and we're excited to give you an update again. And today we're going to be hearing farmer case studies from each of our mill partners including HSD, Redekop, and Seed Terminator. And we'll also be hearing from Kondinin Groups Ben White, who will give us a technical overview and provide us with the latest updates on this technology.  It's been quite exciting in the weedSmart Office the last few weeks our virtual office, obviously, because we're all in different parts of the country. But we've got a new staff member , another Jessica,

Peter Newman  0:57  
Another Jess! I don't know what we're gonna do about that. Will one of you have a nickname?

Jessica Strauss  1:01  
I think New Jess is what we've settled on for the new Jessica Her name's Jessica Scholle. And she joins us from quite a long run at Scitech, which is a Perth based science communications unit. And yeah, she's done a lot of regional travel, talking all things science, and now she's zoning in on agriculture. So she's really interested to be involved. And we've been getting her doing the diversity era courses actually as a crash course into what we do at weed smart Pete. But yeah, we're excited to have her and yeah, we'll be filming the new diversity era update for the harvest weed seed control 101 course with Jessica show at the helm. So that'll be exciting. 

Peter Newman  1:39  
Yeah, well as the listeners are aware, there's been a lot happening in all of harvest, weed seed control and particularly with the mill. So we've got some new information to add to our old course there. So you know, some of the latest and greatest myself and Mike Walsh team up again. And yeah, give a bit of an update on what's been happening with research and, and machinery developments in recent years.

Jessica Strauss  2:00  
Yeah, we're really excited about that. And if you do message us on Twitter, Jessica Scholle will likely be the one who will be replying to you. And so you'll get to know Jess over the next few months. We'll introduce her on Twitter as well with a bit of a video explainer too. So watch out for that you have and make sure you're following us on Twitter of course to see it. But the other exciting thing that's happened at WeedSmart is that we've officially launched our weed Smart Week event in Esperance and ticket sales are now live. So this is our event that's happening on the 17th to the 19th of August this year. And for those who might not be familiar with WeedSmart Week event - it's essentially designed to engage growers and advisors with our big six messages. Pete,  it's also finally coming back to where it started in WA quite a few years ago. Now you've been with the project for its entirety. Can you just give us a bit of background on the development of weed smart over the last few years and the event itself?

Peter Newman  2:53  
Yeah, it started a while ago like you said. And it was quite a different sort of a concept to start with. So the first time we had it, we just had a one day for him in in Perth, and then we just organised a sort of, well, a loose road trip. So we organised farmers were doing different things with weeds and, and so on that that people could go and visit and then some people travelled over and went and did their own road trips all over the state. But the farmers that came from New South Wales, they they got to Esperance and back, I think they travelled a long way. Whereas now it's more evolved to having that one day forum on farming systems type stuff with lots of farmer and agronomist speakers, and then just two days in the field where we travel around normally on buses and some units and so on and then go to a few locations. So it has changed a bit just but what hasn't changed is the fact that it's just practical farming systems information that's delivered mostly by farmers in agros.

Jessica Strauss  3:47  
Yeah, it's going to be really exciting. And some of our guests that are on the podcast today, will actually be at WeedSmart week, and we'll hear a bit more about that in a moment. So if you are interested and you're free on those days, and you want to come along to waves my week in Esperance, the ticket sales are now live. And I will put that link in our podcast notes so you can easily get to it. We'd love to see you there. And there is an early bird price at the moment. So make sure you get in quick if you want. It's quite a significant discount. So definitely jump on board early if you know that you're available on those dates and would like to come along. But Pete, let's get into the details of our podcast topic today, which is of course the weed seed impact mill update that we have been doing for the last few years. And this one is similar in similar in its structure. So we're going to be hearing from Ben white first and then we're going to get farmer case studies after that. Ben white gives us a really comprehensive technical overview. Pete, firstly can you give us your reflections on how the technology has changed over time?

Peter Newman  4:46  
It's been such a journey. Yes, I mean, we The first time I saw a weed seed impact mill was a video on his screen of Ray Harrington, feeding some weed seeds into this rusty looking steel thing. That was a stationary mill on a farm. And that was, what, 20 years ago, right build a toe behind. Then we had the De Bruin toe behind. And then here we are with four different mills that have we have mounted on harvesters. They've come a long way and ironed out lots of bugs. It's been quite a journey, hasn't it?

Jessica Strauss  5:17  
It's been an awesome journey. And yeah, little did I know that when I joined the team, just under five years ago, I would be coming along for the ride and seeing the product development of impact mills in real time. It's been very exciting. And it's such a great technology for growers to be able to access now it's Yeah, it's awesome. And Ben White gives such a great update. Is there anything you'd like to tease out? Before we get into this interview? Pete?

Peter Newman  5:42  
No, I think Ben does a good job, Jess, he really sort of goes over all the latest developments of the mills. And then yeah, we'll hear from the farmers. So let's just go straight to Ben, I think.

Jessica Strauss  5:51  
Let's take a listen. In his interview, we're catching up with convening groups, Ben white. And for those who might not know, Ben, I'm sure most of you do. He's going to give us a bit of an intro of himself in a minute. But he's going to be giving us a technical overview of the mills and what's out there and the headline stuff of what's changed. So Ben does Join us now. How are you going, Ben?  Thanks for joining us, again, for our annual mill podcast been really awesome to be able to catch up with you annually and and get the technical update. But for those people who might not be familiar with your work, can you just give us a bit of a rundown of what your gig is been? Yeah, sure.

Ben White  6:31  
I'm going well, Jess, going very well.  Well, look, I guess. Yeah. As research Manager for Kondinin Group we tend to do a lot of research on a lot of different topics. So yeah, that could be anything from mobile phones. And Josh and I were out in a high plane setting mobile phones a couple of months ago, two year testing anything from linkage spreaders to you know, you name it when it comes under our guys. So I'm actually in Australia at the moment talking about on farm machinery investment. So yeah, sort of, yeah, get into all facets of farm machinery and basically provide an independent view of what's sort of happening with some of that technology for growers around the country. Yeah, and

Jessica Strauss  7:07  
We're really lucky to have you join us on the podcast once again, to give us these technical update. And we're also really excited to announce that you will actually be part of our WeedSmart Week programme in Esperance. So that's really great.

Ben White  7:20  
Yeah, that'll be great down there. And you guys got a great team lined up. So I'm looking forward to catching up with a lot of people. There'll be a really exciting week.

Jessica Strauss  7:29  
Yeah. And you'll be heading up the machinery day, can you give us a bit of a snapshot of what people can expect from your hosting have that event? Yeah, well, look,

Ben White  7:38  
Yeah, well, look, I think, well, from what I understand, there's some great machinery lined up. And we're gonna run through it with some of the manufacturers and manufacturer representatives and owners as well, that'll be there and just talk about their experiences. And I think it'll probably hopefully help people make some decisions about what they do on farm or maybe even refine what they're doing on farm with some of that gear. So I'm looking forward to that to that day. That'll be that'd be great day, always good to kick some tires. Yes,

Unknown Speaker  8:01  
Definitely. And I'm really excited for you to be there as well, we did used to work together at Condon and group. So it will be to the gang, we'll be back together. But let us get into these interview today, we are focusing on mill technology and it's a really established technology. Now, there's still new players in the market that are kind of starting to be established now. But it has been around for a few years now. So Ben, I just firstly wanted to get from you what the key developments over the last harvest have been a bit of a broad overview of where the technology is at.

Unknown Speaker  8:33  
Yeah, Jess, I think we've seen all the manufacturers, they're quite settled in their overall design and the way the mills feed to, to harvest. So I think they're pretty settled in that. And you know, we'll talk about that. For each of them. As we sort of move through, I think what's probably changed a little bit is just, you know, material design and just refinement of the actual milll designer. So with the view that they really want to increase mill life. And that's been one of the challenges, I think. And so sort of in the last 1218 months, it's been a lot of work, a lot of focus from all the manufacturers on just improving that. And and I guess, you know, to the point where we're seeing some come out with warranties for some of the actual mills themselves.

Unknown Speaker  9:12  
Yeah, for sure. All right, well, we will go into each mill, specifically. And this is in no particular order random number generator of how we're going to run through these. So firstly, we'll start with the Seed Terminator. Can you give us a bit of an overview of the key updates on this machine and how it performed over harvest?

Unknown Speaker  9:29  
Yeah, for sure. So let's see, Seed Terminator have been working on a couple of fronts, and I mentioned that, that mill refinement has certainly been focusing their efforts on that. And also, you probably would have seen they've also focused pretty heavily on make sure that the harvest is set up. So you know, it's it's sort of taking one step back, I guess, from the middle and making sure that you know, they're not overloading the mills with chaff and you know, they've got some developments coming in terms of being able to do that more effectively. You know, keeping that strong, much cereal out of the mills is essential, you know, we don't need to be polarising straw material that's just going to chew up more energy and make these Mills less efficient. So, you know, there's a fair effort there. In terms of company structure, I suppose we're seeing some some shifting in that all the gear is all their distribution is coming out of Adelaide now. And pretty much all the all the component tree is made in Australia, and except for the belts and gearboxes, I understand. So you know, that, to me is a good thing, being able to get a hold of some parts, you know, you got 32 staff on board now. So yeah, look minor tweaks, really, and my understanding is, that's just really to improve fit and function. And, and again, you know, to reduce it straw loading, probably the one variation that we may not have seen too much other than last year was the implementation of that high capacity mill. So you know, a bit of a focus on, on where that's required to potentially reduce the energy use, particularly in green material, basically, it does have a lower kill, if you like, but the capacity is considerably increased. And, you know, potentially that's an option for, for really, really heavy crops or crops that have a lot of green material. So, so yeah, set up and focus on capacity really, for a Terminator, I'd say would probably be the two the two main things.

Unknown Speaker  11:16  
Yeah, no, that's a great update, then we're gonna move on next to the HSD. And this is a mill that, you know, most people would be aware of and has gone through quite a few changes from starting off hydraulic, then shifting to mechanical. What are some of the current updates that people should be made aware of and how it performed over harvest, Ben?

Unknown Speaker  11:35  
Yeah, look, in the first year that we did this, you know, that we did hear a lot of complaints from from growers across different brands who had issues. And I have to say that by and large, most of those have been ironed out. And that's no different for iHSD, certainly, that shift to mechanical drive has made a world of difference. And just having the mills align vertically, it has simplified things a lot. My understanding is that they've got some refinements in terms of that daily re grazing on the check shaft bearing on New Holland model. So that'll be coming in. And there's also a focus on a simplified bypass really, to enable brain loss checks. So couple key things sort of coming that way, as well as some product updates, according to the to the HSD team. And I think what's become evident is, is that, you know, the refinement in just in terms of the building the design, you know, some additional strengths and additional gassing and various places, you know, we're seeing that come through. And you know, that happens over time with any product. And you just say that gradual product improvement and no major changes, which sort of tells you that things are getting close to being right.

Jessica Strauss  12:37  
That's great to hear. Ben, thank you for that. And obviously, there's Redekop as well, can you give people who might not be familiar with this mill, a bit of background and how he performed? We have talked about it on the podcast, but yeah, probably a little bit newer than the other two, and maybe a little less knowledge on this one? 

Ben White  12:54  
Yeah, sure. So, the Redekop milll operates in much the same way. You've got two mills with stators and rotors there that smash up the chaff material as it comes through the machine. Initially only available on John Deere machines and a a few key design differences, I suppose with the Redekops, they've got a reversible mill, so you can actually flip the mill and get wear out of both sides. So the mill design is a little bit different. And you know, there's been questions raised about, you know, the efficacy of that mill, and I've done some work on ryegrass. And then there's been questions raised about the ryegrass where there was testing with Australian ryegrass, etc. One thing I have to say with all the mill manufacturers is that they're really happy to be tested under some standard lab conditions. And you know, that's a conversation that, that I've been having with, with Pete Newman and all the mill manufacturers and Redekop is definitely on board with that. So they're as keen as anyone to provide those numbers. And I think that'll be a great thing at the end of the day. So, so look, you know, they've sort of said that as a result of that mill design they've gotten they're pretty confident in life of the mill. And they actually put a warranty add on that for two years or two seasons, and 1100 rotor hours here, which is pretty ballsy, I think, particularly when you know that there's going to be some challenges with abrasive soils. And again, setup can influence mill life. So interestingly, I mentioned at the start there that was originally only available on John Deere machines. I do know that they field tested the SCU, on flagship Case IH machines over the last season in Canada and Australia, and there will be some Case versions available for 2021. So that'll be interesting to see just because up until now, we haven't really seen the reticle available on anything but the by the John Deeres. And again, mechanical drive down through a gearbox to horizontal mill. So yeah, we've got a slight variation there. But also integration with the the Redekop MAV, which a lot of people will be familiar with, in terms of a straw spreading option.

Jessica Strauss  14:48  
Yeah, very cool. And that is exciting. Yeah, being available on the Case as well, Ben, and obviously there's other mills in the making, too. These aren't the only ones out there. Can you give was an update on what other options there are or might be in the future? 

Ben White  15:04  
lYeah, so, look, the Tech Farm guys produce the Weedhog and and they've been trialling that then sort of in the southern part of the state (WA) have had it on claas seven, claas eight Case harvesters. So, you know, they've told us that they've made a couple little design changes, one of the main ones being that they've increased the ground clearance, which was something that, you know, we were all pretty keen to see. So that's, that's great that that's happened. Your rotor speed in those particular on the  mills is only about 2400 rpm and but they are doing some, they're pretty active and trying to do some testing, and getting about 80%, average, in cereals. But the point they make is that, you know, that over time, there's there's also some seed degradation. So the fact that it's been through the mill, straightaway, you'll get an 80% kill, but then there's also some say degradation over time. So look, I think that's one of the beauties of actually standardising some testing procedures that that Newms (Peter Newman) and I have been talking about, and I think it'll be great to actually be able to help some of these manufacturers in standardising a test and then being able to draw some conclusions and draw some pretty firm comparisons between how they will perform. So look exciting stuff from from whitehawk. You know, it's a low horsepower draw machine that that's that's sort of aiming at is is as a belt drive unit to pull less power, reduce the need for chipping, or remapping harvesters and also be available to smaller machines. So we'll be interested to see how that evolves as well. 

Jessica Strauss  16:28  
Yeah, very cool. Yeah, we'll have to keep a close eye on what is happening in that space as well. Then, as we mentioned earlier, we have covered mills in extensively on WeedSmart. And, you know, obviously, it's been part of conversations on Twitter and in other communications for a number of years now. And it's interesting to look at the adoption curve for products that are new, such as mill technology. So I'd like to get your perception on where we are on the adoption curve, when it comes to this particular tech. 

Ben White  16:57  
Well, Jess, I think it's pretty safe to say we're off the bleeding edge. So I think, you know, early adopters tend tend to wear a fair bit of pain. And I think it'd be fair to say that quite a few early adopters, for this meal technology, you know, would consider themselves having been through the bleeding edge and having suffered a little bit, and I think, you know, credit to manufacturers have worked pretty hard to make sure that they've continued that product improvement. And, and continued to, I guess, develop the product so that it meets expectations. So I think we're at a point now, just where, you know, uptake is is pretty solid, you know, the the easily 500 Mills around the country, I think at a guess will there will be this year operating. And I think that does a couple of things. One is that that increases in volume increases experience increases knowledge in products, and also helps drive product development and refinement. So we'll continue to see more of the same sort of subtle improvements, as we've seen. And the other thing is that it just gives market the market some confidence that you know, now's perhaps the time to jump in, all the bugs are ironed out, all the major bugs are ironed out, these things are working. And, you know, as long as you know, what you're looking for, and as long as you know how to set your harvester up, these Mills will do the job you need to do and, and shouldn't hold you back too much.

Jessica Strauss  18:15  
Yeah, certainly, Ben, that's very true. And that's a really great insight that you've got there. And one of the barriers in the past has been the cost of mills. And there has been a lot of conversations around now that we're doing a lot of case studies in particular, you know, the savings that are made when you're using less chemicals, because you've adopted this mill technology. But is it costal a barrier? What are your thoughts on this? This part of the deal, Ben? 

Ben White  18:40  
Yeah, look, I think for some people, the capital costs may still be a deal breaker, but I would sort of say to them, I think at the end of the day, there'll be the cheapest, you know, weed seed edition, you can probably put in the mix, you know, if you look at the cost of some of the high value chemistry that we've got out there now, this is, you know, another spoke in the wheel and one of the big six, as we talked about, and I think that, you know, it's really important that, you know, growers look at it in that context. So, yep, cost is probably up there would have to say that in conversation with all the manufacturers, the cost has really increased, in some cases, it's actually come down. And that some that's pretty significant in terms of the, you know, the fact that, you know, steel prices have increased in city, you know, significantly in the last 1218 months. So, you know, for those, and particularly for high grade grade Steel's that are used in the, in the fabrication of the mills. So, you know, to see some of the prices come down, I think is encouraging, and they'll probably continue to come down over time, but I think you know, the benefit you're going to get in the short term is is is definitely worth it. From now on, I think, yeah. If you're considering it now is probably the jump in time.

Jessica Strauss  19:46  
Good advice, Ben. There is one other question I wanted to ask you now, our extension agronomist who are based in the southern region have spoken to me about capacity issues that were experienced over the last harvest you at the mercy of crops that they had in lots of areas over there, there was a lot of additional biomass and people who did have mills did run into problems. Can you give us a bit of an overview on what happened there? And are there ways that mills could overcome these capacity issues? 

Ben White  20:14  
Look, I think we talked about a couple things earlier that are really essential one is hard to set up. And I can't stress that enough, one of the ways these mills get overloaded and end up showing a lot of power is by us putting material other than chaff and weed seeds in them. So you know, if you end up with a favourite straw straw fraction in there, you know, a lot of green materials, sometimes you can, you can sort of incur some performance degradation. So being able to get that have set up correctly is absolutely important. And the alternative is obviously, to use a mill that's got a high capacity, albeit potentially with a lower kill. And so we may need to look at those options in years, like we've had, where we've got some really high biomass crops and was really challenging to the conditions for a mill to operating. And of course, you know, we potentially may need to extract some more power out of the house that might include chipping or remapping or whatever the preferred option is to get some more power, and or go up to the next grade of harvest, you know, next class or harvester, which costs all adds cost to the mix. But you know, I'm pretty sure people growing those massive crops Yes, that they probably can mourn the additional expense on a on a high capacity harvester.

Jessica Strauss  21:22  
Yeah, no, that's a good point, Ben. And do you have any final thoughts? We're really appreciative of you going through all of all of the different manufacturers and you've done lots of homework to do this interview today. Is there anything we've missed been that you'd like to share with listeners?

Ben White  21:36  
Oh, no, I think I think, you know, we're in for a good ride with this technology. Now, I think, in conversation with all manufacturers, and you've been right, I did speak to all major manufacturers of mills and give them the opportunity to provide me with a few bullet points of where they're at and what they're up to. And hopefully, we've done that justice, given the time we've, we've got Jess, but I think the overall and I do see a lot of machinery manufacturers in the course of my job, I think the one that I can safely say is that the spirit of wanting to do the right thing by the grace, famille manufacturers is as good as I've seen it with any other bit of gear. So, you know, like I said, in the course of their conversation, you know, the thought that they want to get out there and actually do some comparative testing the thought they want to be involved with that, I think is great. And I think that that's to be applauded, you don't often always say that, from machinery manufacturers. So yeah, well done to, to the manufacturers and, you know, good on the farmers who put their necks on the line to make some of this stuff actually work and provided accurate feedback. I think that's, that's really important. And, you know, we all owe them. Some, some thanks, as well for helping develop the product.

Jessica Strauss  22:43  
Yeah, certainly, it's definitely been a really interesting ride, being able to cover the development in real time of these mills over the last few years through the WeedSmart, podcast, and through our other communications. And you've been a real asset to be able to help us get that technical information to listeners and share all the updates. And obviously, we will keep in touch with you, Ben with any significant updates on new technology in the future, too. But yeah, I think these overview case study type podcasts have been really helpful. And we really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to have a chat with us and provide the updates. So thank you so much, not only for this interview, but for the previous ones that you've been involved in as well,  we really appreciate it.

Ben White  23:26  
Always, always a pleasure. Always a pleasure, Jess. Yeah. Look forward to seeing you at WeedSmart Week and always happy to chat to any grower who'd like to discuss the mill technology. Happy to take calls and work it through with them. Anytime.

Jessica Strauss  23:40  
Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Ben.  

Ben White there from Kondinin Group giving an excellent technical update, and also just a bit of a insight into how the technology has been adopted over the last few years. And Pete, interestingly, we did talk a bit about the adoption curve, which is something that you've talked about in your presentations quite a bit. And we've discussed on the podcast before, but this was really a case of seeing it in action. We did have early adopters in the farming community take on board this technology in its infancy. What are your thoughts on that? Pete?

Peter Newman  24:15  
Yeah, there's a great quote that I loved. Yes, the pioneers get the arrows, but settlers get the land. And, and sometimes the pioneers have to take a bit of a hit. And the adoption of mills was no different. And there was certainly problems. They'll all tell you that. And I tell you, what's amazing from these interviews coming up, Jess, is that a number of them had those problems. They were early adopters. And then they in reinvested, bought the upgraded model of the mills and they're still committed to it. So yeah, the pioneers have certainly done the hard yards as have the companies, of course, to bring us this technology. And we really feel as though we're here and you've heard from Ben, we're at the pointy end now with the pretty well refined bits a gear here.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai