Helicon, Glasgow, And The Fight For Real Rock

Step into a smoky Glasgow rehearsal room and meet John Paul Hughes of Helicon, the psychedelic rock band turning influence into something fiercely their own. We go deep on craft, why permanence beats hype, and how to build songs that still feel new decades later. If you’ve ever argued that guitar music is alive and well, this is your proof.

We trace the DNA from The Velvet Underground, Pink Floyd, and Led Zeppelin to Ride, My Bloody Valentine, and The Jesus and Mary Chain, then follow the sound into today’s shoegaze, dream pop, doom, and stoner rock. John Paul breaks down what “psychedelic” really means—less pedal worship, more form-breaking and emotion-driven architecture. Along the way, we celebrate a global map of scenes across the UK, Europe, Australia, and even Cambodia, showing how far this music travels and why it keeps finding new ears.

The conversation lands squarely on the realities of making art now: streaming platforms that make uploading easy and discovery hard, attention spans stretched thin by short-form feeds, and a film ecosystem locked on IP and remakes. We talk arts funding, practicing until the ideas click, and starting a band later in life with a clear sense of purpose. The core takeaway is simple: make the work for yourself first. Listeners can smell the difference between a song built for a trend and a song built to last.

If you care about shoegaze, psychedelic rock, indie craft, and the fight to be heard in a noisy world, you’ll feel at home here. Hit play, share it with a friend who says rock is dead, and leave a review to help more curious listeners find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Helicon Intro

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Attention, all you fishes in the sea. Come swim on in and check out my interview with John Paul Hughes from Glasgow's critically acclaimed shoe gate psychedelic rock band Helicon, where we talk about music, film, and his newly released collaboration with Owl Lover called A Rise. Come swim on in and give it a listen. John Paul Hughes on the fish bowl from Helicon. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Thank you, thank you very much for having me.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

Absolutely. Thank you so much for taking the time to swim in the bowl with me.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Swamming a few bowls enough time, but it's a completely different thing. It can.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

A little foggy, a little haze, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Why not, man?

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Especially listening to uh Helicon.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

So well, the I am talking to you right now from a rehearsal space in uh just outside Glasgow. And uh the guys are due here about 6 30 tonight, um so a couple hours time, but uh I've got a little smokey in here later, let's say what we've such a clear view by the time they arrive.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Right, right, right. You know, I uh I had to use like the the squeegee thing, you know. And my my next pun is I hope the temperature is just right.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Oh yeah, yeah. Well, uh it's about minus six, minus seven degrees here in in Glasgow just now, so that's been temperature that's not right, but we'll sort that later. Don't worry about that. That's so good, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Exactly. I gotta go out and shovel after this. So that that's that's what it's like here.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Uh uh is it really?

Weather, Rehearsal, And Band Banter

Praise For God Intentions And Touring Hopes

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Oh yeah, oh yeah. We've the last uh like week has been nothing but snowstorm, icy, uh, you know, um basically frozen under the bowl. Yeah. You know, I could do fish ponds all day. I have endless ones, you know. But we are here to talk about Helicon. You know, I know we've been friends on Facebook for a while. Um I've been an avid follower of the band for you know the past couple years. Love, love, love the last album you guys did, God Intentions. The the live version. I like I'm I'm I'm not sure which album I like more, the studio version or the live version. Um love both of them. I you know, I should probably say equally, but you know, you're you're one of the bands that I I wish at some point in the future could make it to the States to do it do a touring gig, especially come to Pittsburgh. I could I could give you a list of venues that that would that you guys could play at, but your music and just everything is like you're you're definitely one of the bands that I am envious of all the music that's coming out of the not just like the UK and Glasgow, but Europe in general. You know, in the States we have you know some good music, but you know, it's all on the underground. And you know, there's like I've just noticed that I've been following different areas of the country, you know, where there's big music scenes and the the two well, I guess it's technically a continent, which is Australia, and I guess the country is the other one is New Zealand. But I I have seen so many just you know, they keep popping up with like not just like you know, shoe gays and you know, psychedelic stuff like that, but like prog rock, you know, classic rock vibes, like new punk alternative, a band from Australia that I'm a huge, huge fan of, but I really want to get on the show. Is I'm not sure if you remember it, then they're called Full Flower Moon Band. No, really good, really, really good. Iggy pop on his radio show that I think is that's in like the UK, right? I I think so.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yep.

Global Scenes: UK, Europe, Australia

SPEAKER_04 4:44

He he featured some uh some of their music on on his radio show. Really awesome band. And you know, I'm just like very envious of of the whole UK and and Europe area, especially Berlin is another area that I've seen a lot of great music come from recently with like uh blues pills and the spiders, and just like you know, another musician from the UK that I'm a big fan of is Rosalie Cunningham, who I'm supposed to eventually get on the show. But her her latest album was you know so effing good. Another artist that's similar to Rosalie is uh Bobby Dazzle, who just released a uh debut album this this year, and it's it's phenomenal as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Um I really appreciate you saying that, man, because I think that it's um obviously, you know, you watch how you do on streaming services and you watch how you do and all the and and it it's really interesting. Obviously, we know that that the harm that that that that can do for for the industry and for musicians, but it's also you know it's there, it's there forever, and you're gonna have to you're gonna have to play the game whether you like it or not. And and and to know that that's reaching people like you, that's getting to places like Pittsburgh, it's getting all across the States, it's getting into these other countries, it really means a lot. You know, it allows us to do that, and and the fact that we would love to get to the States one day. I really appreciate you saying that about the record because it was there was a lot of time and effort went into that. It felt like we had we had achieved something we'd been trying to achieve, maybe with the previous records and and and had built towards. So to hear that feedback from you and and say that really means a lot. And actually, funnily enough, we are moving to a new booking agent um very soon who is the same booking agent for Rosalie Cunningham.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

So awesome. That's uh Cherry Cherry Red Records.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Uh it's it's it's an individual who we've been we've been working with who works through different uh through different agencies. Um so who knows? We might we might get the the the the dream lineup there one day.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Yeah, yeah. Oh, what a show, what a show. I mean, I mean with with Rosalie the the the one in Bobby Dazzle, I was promoting the the hell out of it. Every time I saw it on Facebook, I shared, you know, shared, shared, shared. And the show where it was Bobby Dazzle opening for Rosalie Cunningham, like that that would have been a show, was a show that I was like so envious of like the the the two power, you know, female, you know, prog rock, like the queen and and the and the princess essentially, you know, performing.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

That would probably make us the gestals in their coat then dancing around. Right, right, right, right.

Influences From Classic Rock To Shoegaze

SPEAKER_04 7:40

You know, they they totally could have had, you know, a gesture, you know, uh dressed up with the type of music they make, you know. Um, you know, it totally would have worked, you know. But that that was a show that I was just like, oh my god, you know, and also like all the festivals that happen, you know, and in the UK and in you know, Europe in general. Some of the ones that I've seen you play, uh your band play, Helicon, another dear friend of mine who I'm sure you know, Stanley Belton, the black market karma. Um yeah, I've had he was like the first shoe gaze kind of like a band that I had on the show, and I am waiting to hear back from him about getting him on for a second interview, uh especially with uh the new EP.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah, he's a really good guy. In fact, um going back, I think, if I'm not mistaken, I think Helicon's first ever gig was with Black Market Karma. Awesome. The first time we ever played, it was someone who was in the band at the time, I think, had been kind of early Facebook friends with Stan and were following each other. So Stan and I and my brother Gary have become good friends over the years, and uh they travelled all the way up from London to East Co Bride, the little town that we are from, just outside Glasgow to come and play with as our first ever show. And it's it's been great now that we've crossed paths so many times and we're now both on the same label and uh and and kind of seeing each other kind of come up through the levels, it's been great because Stan's a good guy, he's very, very committed, you know. He's the kind of driving force behind that that project, and he's a a bit like Helicon, he's had a lot of musicians come and go within the band over the years because as things start to build and develop, you know, I always say Helicon feels a bit more like a at times rather than a band, a bit more like a collective of musicians because we just have to continually evolve and move forward. And sometimes, you know, as as as as bands get a little bit more, as the demands become more for touring and for recording, it can be difficult as you know, none of us are teenagers anymore. Um so we all uh we we all uh we all have other demands on our time. So you can understand why some people maybe need to come away from it, but Stan's been the one constant that that that's driven that band, Black Market Karma, through to where they are now, and and there's been a lot of similarities as we've kind of come through that alongside each other, you know.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

Definitely, definitely. I mean, one person who you can tell him this from me, and I'll shoot him a message on Facebook as well, but Jason Shaw with with Fuzz Club Records. There there's I've learned basically of like the different labels, you know, that that you know make the type of music that I love listening to. And I like to consider myself like a music aficionado, like you know, I like all different genres of music, but if I had to like you know center it on one genre, I would definitely be more of a rocker than you know any other genre. And with that, it's like I love Jimi Hendrix and and you know the British invasion music with like the Beatles and The Who and Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and then the doors, and you know, just all the the classic classic rock stuff, how that like you know evolved, and you had like punk, and punk was a huge scene, especially in the UK and the US. And then like you had like the the grunge movement, which like you know, I kind of consider like the last, you know, actual like universal musical movement that that that we we had. And you know, that was like universally worldwide, not just for grunge, but I mean, go into you know, one of the fundamentals of what shoe gaze has become, obviously the dandy warholes and the Brian Jonestown massacre, along with like Ride, which really want to interview those guys, you know, and then like you know, the Jesus Mary Chain, My Bloody Valentine, you know, bands that help form, you know, the what what shoe gaze and dream pop and what that that sound has like specifically developed into today, you can really attribute to like those bands, and then even further back with classic rock, Lou Reed, The Velvet Underground, and Pink Floyd as being big, you know, major influences that would later, you know, become what shoe gaze has kind of turned into. But you know, it's like my two favorite genres, ironically, because they contrast each other, is is like shoe gaze dream pop. I can't get enough of it, and the con contrastic, like you know, like sabbathian metal, like yeah, like like the old school, you know, Sabbath, like doom metal, stoner metal, stoner rock, like that that stuff I'm really, really into. The only type of metal that I kind of have a big I can't listen to is like ruble. You know, but if if it's like metal and and and the in the and back to like Rosalie and Bobby Dazzle, you know, hearing like prog rock, well, you know, like like you know, the amazing music they they create, and hearing like like again, blues pills and like the spiders and just bands like them. And I'll even throw another one out there bringing up the doors, birth of joy. Birth of joy is is like hearing the doors, you know, literally reincarnated. Yeah, you know, so you know, hearing like bands that aren't necessarily like prog rock and they're not necessarily like, you know, psychedelic or heavy metal, but they have the it's like a it's kind of like you know, a clockwork orange in a sense, you know, like like the the old is is is like you know new again, you know, and it's just in society in general, it's like literally living.

What Makes Music Timeless

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah, I think you say that the the old becomes the new again. It's it's it's you know nothing will ever be entirely original, but I I think the most important thing that you can do if if you're gonna have any level of integrity around the music, you're trying to make you try to create something with a a level of permanency that will last that that that is not part of a uh a fleeting era or phase or bandwagon or anything like that that's on it. And and and and so you're always going to draw from somewhere. But I think what's most important is is you know you can take it from wherever you want, but where do you take it to? What are you gonna do with it? What are you gonna do with it that's new and fresh and exciting? And and and can you bring these other things together to try and offer up something that that is less derivative than what a lot of uh stuff that you can hear that's heavily influenced by very specific, uh massively world famous bands, and you can't help it, it's gonna seep in there because it's in your DNA from your kid, it's gonna come out somewhere. But are are you are you self-aware enough and self-critical enough to realise when something is derivative of something else? And can you then take that and blend it with something to try and move it somewhere new? So I think that's these new generations of artists that you've got, and and I'm I'm I'm also hopeful that there's a hopefully a bit of a resurgence back towards musicianship and and and and traditional instrumentation and all these things as well, because I mean, fucking hell, how many times have we been told over the years that that the guitar music's dead?

SPEAKER_04 15:39

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

It's not and it never will be.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

Exactly, exactly. You know, the the mainstream may say that, you know, but but if you look at all these bands, I mean, not just in the UK, but in the States and just you know, around in Australia, New Zealand, around the world. I mean, I mean, like there's there's a band I I I really like a lot from Cambodia, and they're actually called uh the Cambodian Space Project.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, I think was it Jason Shaw in that band?

SPEAKER_04 16:14

Yeah, yeah, I believe, I believe he was, yeah. That's obviously how I found out about them, but uh you know the fact that like you know their their reach all the way out there, and and again with Jason Shaw and some of the bands he's produced. I I'm I'm friends with the the people from Frankie Teardrop Dead and Yeah, dead, the really nice people, the great people. Uh Geography of the Moon as well. I've had them on my show, and they're all like playing in Cambodia right now.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah, and and like it was there. I saw Carling and Ben from uh as well in Manchester. You know, we hung out with those guys quite a few times, really, really nice people. So I'm glad to see they're over there doing well and enjoying it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Exactly. And and the thing that like I'm surprised, but also like really impressed with is that like all the way in that area of the world, with everything that's happened there, like you know, from the past up till up till now, to see that like like there's actually a huge listenership for that type of music in that area, like says to me, well, this doesn't this this basically means that this music is universal, you know, and like if if a band like those bands can play in that area of the world and have shows have people come, pay tickets, and just like any other show in any other part of the country or world, you know, there there's a market for it. And I'm really like just proud that like you know that type of music and you know, music in general, which you know has the power to like produce memories and all sorts of different feelings, you know, and inspirations and stuff can reach, you know, that that part and just says it can reach, you know, uh basically worldwide. So I kind of consider like I guess you could still there's a lot of different like rock movements going on right now that the mainstream is paying no attention to, and it's all like you know, Taylor Swift and Beyonce and Sabrina Carpenter and you know all these people, and you know, like not to you know diss that music or anything, but you know, a movie from when I was in high school kind of explains that type of music and you know, Josie and the pussy cats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, anyone who is or you know, around our age, uh, you know, has seen that movie, they know exactly what I'm talking about. Um, and it's really funny if you think about it, because what that movie's plot line was is almost exactly what's like going on right now in the music industry. It's one of those things where like movie, you know, art imitates reality, and reality imitates art.

Streaming, Discovery, And Noise Online

What Psychedelic Really Means

SPEAKER_00 19:25

It's one of the ironies of the way that music is today is that it's never been easier to create and put music out, but arguably never been harder to be heard because such is the volume of of music and and you know when you create music or you are trying to uh create an art form that that that that will connect with people and will touch in a certain way. And and certainly when we write songs, I I in particular don't really write songs that have uh a particular meaning or narrative as such. I uh is it's much more emotion-led. So it's kind of what emotion are we trying to communicate here? What what what is the feeling that we're trying to put into someone right that's there that we're trying to say this is what we do you get a but I I I I think one of the things that that that's interesting about that is that as I said, you know, recording equipment's become cheaper, you know. We know uh and and obviously listen, the there's different levels of that that you want to create that that that that content and the quality of that content to be in production values but but yet uh younger generations of people, you know, they're becoming more and more used to listening to music through phones and through terrible speakers or little ear pods or they're watching movies on phones. So there's never been more platforms for you to use to try and reach people, but such is the volume of content and music and art that's put in here and pushed out to these people because you know as a as uh I try to get people to listen to your music, I try to be people to connect with any art form. You're not just competing with other music or all music in recording the history of recording music is available on someone's someone's fingertips. You're competing with every other thing that person can do in that moment. I've watched the television, gone to Netflix, go for it's all there all the time. So as I said, it it means it it might never have been easier for people to create music and and and release music in a certain way with you know self-publishing all these things, but arguably it might never have been harder to actually be heard because the the volume of stuff that comes at people and and and now the siloed way that the the the the distribution uh through these online platforms uh gives people more of what they're already doing, uh stops people from crossing over and being able to get into other things that maybe they hadn't. And and and and for me that's always been part of what Helicon and psychedelic music art is about, uh is Blending and blurring lines between genres and taking things and being more experimental and being able to pull things from other genres and other art forms and blend these in and bring them in a way that sort of communicate the psychedelic experience. I think that I I think too often that that that word psychedelic and psychedelia is is is a kind of lazy catch-all term when people don't quite know how to categorize something. Or you know, somebody hits a fucking tremolo pedagogue, dude-do-do need it, and all of a sudden that's oh that's psychedelic. Oh, is it really? Psychedelic music i it is about breaking form. It's not about you know it's I mean not obviously you get psychedelic pop and stuff like that, which which follows certain narratives and the structures, and there's certain things that you need to put in there that that that your listener will will want and need to keep them hooked in. But I think the more that you can you can break those forms and and and blend them with other things, the the the the the greater chance you give yourself of creating something that's that's fresh, that's distinctive, and and that has that word that I mentioned, Emily, that permanency that isn't of a time that could be listened to and that's always been the goal that someone would pick up your record in 30, 40, or 50 years' time and it will sound as fresh and relevant to them then as it did when you put it out, you know.

Pink Floyd And Permanence

SPEAKER_04 23:23

Exactly. I I I mean to to your point, Pink Floyd, you know, perfect example. Dark side of the moon. I know it's big commercial album, but you have to look at like why it's it's still sound like it's it's timeless, you know. People uh 200 years from now, assuming we're all still here and haven't blown each other to hell. I would I wouldn't bet on it, right? Um you know, assuming we're all still here, and let's hope we're like closer towards like you know the Star Trek, you know, future versus like the Blade Runner, yeah, you know, THX1138, you know, future. But assuming we're all here 200 years later, people will still be listening to Pink Floyd and Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Ethel, Animals, you know, all the the classic stuff. You know, I I wouldn't say I wouldn't say so much like the later Floyd, you know, but but defin definitely like Sid Barrett Floyd and the height of Floyd in like the 70s, people listen to the same thing with Led Zeppelin, the Beatles. I mean, it's there's a re the Rolling Stones, you know, there's a reason why like that music is still you know relevant. The same goes for like the the grunge stuff, you know, and the the 90s era, even the 80s, you know, as much as I hated air metal, I mean, I mean, listen to how many of those songs are like and movies and stuff. And to to also like credit what we were just talking about with the music industry, it's like the same thing is going on with the film industry. And I actually want to say, you know, because I I went to school for screenwriting and you know, I'm I'm like involved with it with interviewing people and stuff like that, and and writing and stuff, but I would say that like it's almost well while it is like you said, just as easy as it is to make music, it's just as hard to get it out there. I'd say that that's true, but with music versus film, at least right now, it's a lot easier to make music, and while you you struggle just as equally trying to get it out there, you still have a better chance with music versus film, especially with with the mainstream. Yeah, because I think it it I mean sure you have to like you know put money into each album and touring and merch and stuff like that, but I feel like music as a platform versus film, it's a lot easier to you know get to do all that stuff and almost get a return, not just you know, money-wise, but like listenership-wise, follower-wise, stuff like that versus film, because film is very iffy, it's all about you know money, and unfortunately, you know, from where we came in the 70s, 80s, and 90s to where we are now, you know, it's all about how can we make a return versus you know the art form. And most of Hollywood and the film industry in general around the world has lost the idea that film is an art form versus you know a commercial, you know, bank return.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Absolutely. And I think you know, you're a hundred percent correct uh in that, and there are parallels in the two as well. And that the and and sadly, the probably the more concerning thing, uh not the more concerning thing, but you know, as as we see this shift towards from from major governments around the world towards more right-wing governments as as they start to go as well, that this appreciation for the arts is is undermined the further that starts to swing. And I again partly because uh there are more tools and mediums and platforms for people to do now, they start to say, well, these things don't these things do need funding. Filmmakers need funding, musicians need funding, they need government backing, they need to be able to it's you know, you've talked about film there and we talked about music, and I talked about you know where they go with these albums and how they get better and better and better as you go through. That's the development of craft.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Exactly.

Music Vs Film: Access And Return

SPEAKER_00 28:15

You can't develop craft in any art form if you're not given the time and space to do it. If you're yeah, if the only if you're having to go bust your ass in a a 95 job or you you know are working you know crazy hours through the night, and all these things are there, then you don't get the time to sit down and put in those ten hundred ten thousand, hundred thousand hours that everybody talks about, that you've got to build this thing up and get it and understand and and and get better at it and refine it. And then you you then have the shift towards these, you know, visually that that the short form content on YouTube where everything's done in you know five minutes and ten minutes snaps and and the attention span of the next generation of audiences get shorter and shorter and shorter, and their willingness to to to move into to experience anything new becomes harder and harder and harder. It's I think whil whilst whilst there's so many green shoots of positivity and and encouragement and and and and creativity that you see going on, I'm genuinely really worried about the future of arts for that because in music and film and television and all these things that you see as well, what they're looking for is existing IP that they can then take and and draw out and sell into as many countries as quickly as they possibly can. Yes and translate that and and and bring that back. And and even the way, you know, even things like classic comedy shows, you're not gonna get that anymore because now it's about how can we package this thing up and distribute it into as many territories that people come back to time and time and time and time again. And I see the same that with uh and and music has been an interesting model the way it started to shift, and you start to see you know some of those pop stars that you we talked about earlier really getting ahead of the game and understanding how how the internet and how social media and how streaming platforms worked and how they could they could channel that to their own advantage. But I I I also think those days are kind of gone now as well. I think that you had to you had to be ahead of the game really early. If you have you're seeing that bandwagon now, it's already too late. You know what I mean? Yeah, these people are so far ahead of it. So yeah, I was like, when it goes now, I don't know, but I'm I'm genuinely worried about it.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

I I I completely agree. The attention span thing is a big issue. The fact of the matter is, like, you know, the Gen Z generation has been like spoon-fed Marvel or DC or some sort of comic book iteration for the last 10 plus years. And we're still we're still doing it. The audience, you know, at the box office has shown that like it's starting to you definitely go down with with comic book stuff, which is why Hollywood's next idea is like, well, we ran up the comic book thing, you know, now let's go to, like you said, IP. And there's so much, there's so much IP, you know, that that you could literally do like 10 to 20 years of of you know IP stuff, you know, and until that runs dry, but then what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 31:25

You know, that by that time AI will have taken over anyway. And exactly there won't have any need for musicians or filmmakers or anybody else at that point. We'll all we'll all just be setting asleep.

SPEAKER_04 31:35

Right, right. And if if it's like what Musk said, you know, then AI has already taken over uh mainstream music, you know. So so literally people like you and all the bands we talked about, you know, and and you know, people who are you know don't have that aren't already famous and and don't already have like hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, and and uh and a massive fan base from you know what what they did prior or or you know were backed by you know whoever to to push them to the front of the line. I mean, that's literally how Taylor Swift, you know, became Taylor Swift. She was backed by you know hundreds of thousands of dollars, and she put it into you know her first performance and you know had all this money essentially to you know put it on the streamers and pay for the followers, and now there's there's the Swifties that I kind of relate to like people with uh you know some sort of like cult following.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:53

I know, I know, you know, you know, but but you know that you know that's that's them. I I I I think people like you, Ben, Carling, all the people, Geography of the Moon, all the people that another band I want to mention, Ghost Patterns, and uh friends of hers as well. Yes, great, great band. I've been trying, I want to get them on the show as well as the Lex Lex Lex's other band that she's with, Bug Eye, I believe, is is the name. Do I have that right? I want to make sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

I'm not sure. I know I know she left uh Ghost Patterns not so long ago and and Terry and the guys are still going there, but yeah, I'm not sure what a new band is.

Arts Funding And Attention Spans

SPEAKER_04 33:35

I think it's I think it's Bug Eye, if I something like that. I I I either way I want to get Lex's new band on the show as well as those patterns. But you know, like you guys are I I want to say like really the the the the last like rock and rollers, you know, like like the the the the doing you know essentially what is described as like punk doing what you can to get your music out there and you know fight to get it out there and you know do what you have to do, you know, and until you can reach as many audiences, which is part of why I feel it's like my duty, and not from not someone who listens to mainstream and is like, you know, the Josie and the Pussycats people, but actually what Josie and the Pussycats was supposed to be, you know, with the initial start out with what they wanted you know in the plot line for the movie.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Well, I think that's it it can get frustrating, and and and we all have times when we bang our heads against the wall and we think it's this worth continuing, man, as it should be. But then I I I think what you just need to remind yourself is why you started doing it in the first place. Right. And and if you start, you know, we didn't start Helicon until we were our mid-30s, you know. Like um it's the only band I've ever been in. I wasn't a guy who was around bands my whole life. Lots of our guys in our band were, you know. Mike was in bands like the Trembling Bells, and uh Graham was in a band who was doing really, really well, figure five back in the day, they were out touring with Kula Shaker and all these kind of people. And Seb's been in loads of bands over the years, and and and you know, that they've um these guys have have been at it from from teenagers, whereas I came at it much, much, much later in life when I brought it to. So this has been my kind of my kind of pet project all up from from day one. Whereas you know, Mike and Graham and Seb, guitar players and drummers and and and and a keys and sitar player, they've they've been the kind of backing band and been part of bands like Kaleidoscope, you you know, Peter Dolce's Kaleidoscope.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Definitely, definitely great man.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

So those those guys played with have played as part of that band, they've played with Twink. As I mentioned, that you know, they've played with Credible Strink Karen's Incredible String Band. So they've been in lots of bands over the years and done these things, and and it's been great because that's the craft development that I talk about, where you you're in different places and you're spending this time learning different styles, learning different genres, learning different techniques, learning from people who are who have done it 30, 40 years and more from you when it gets to. But what it brings it back to is that at times you're going, okay, maybe we're not we're not getting big enough fast enough for you, and you start to get frustrated with it. But uh when that happens, I think the most important thing you can do is remind yourself why you started and and you didn't start this for other people. You didn't start this to try and make a buck, you didn't start this to uh try and get famous or do any of these things that you you know, obviously people talk old pop stars and rock stars go, you know, I wanted to be on this show, and I never had any of that, but what you s what what the reason you started it and the reason you did it was was for your own sanity and your own self-expression and and and and that compulsion that you had something to get out of you and and and it it just so happens that music would be the medium that you would choose uh to do that because it's the one that matters to you most. So when those frustrations come, I think it's important to remind yourself of that and it grounds you a little bit. But what I think what it also does is is is it reminds you to the the the art form that you're creating and whatever that is, whether it's music or film, you have to make it for yourself first and foremost. If if you chase an audience or if you if you if you I'm not saying that you of course you have to think about is is as you craft a song where things will be and what how would be um you know let's give the audience a big lift at this moment here where it starts to move and bring them back down and start to and you think that way, but uh if if if you're making that music or you're making your art form, be it be it film or whatever it happens to be for anybody else, then to me you're you're an authentic. You are you are using it as a vehicle for something else rather than what it should be is because if it makes you feel something and it's authentic and it's real and it is genuine self-expression and you're making it for yourself and you really feel it and you really work at it, it will connect with someone else. When you're setting out in a more cynical way to deliberately try and do something to capture a particular audience or demographic or people with it, then you know I I think real people who care about real art can smell that bullshit and I love.

IP, Franchise Fatigue, And Algorithms

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Exactly. There's there's actually I I just saw a quote, I forget who said it, but it was someone might have been like David Lynch or like what one of the old school like filmmakers basically said exactly so many words what you just said about film, and that's why film is in trouble, like it is right now. You know, the the audiences are dwindling, the attention span, you know, like we talked about earlier, is is becoming shorter and shorter to like that of like a ferret, literally. And you know, like I noticed a big generational gap a few years ago. You know, I'm I'm 36, gonna be 37 in April. And one of my all-time favorite science fiction films is Blade Runner. And I think Blade Runner to talk about, you know, on the subject of the music, this the score for the film, alone with the the special effects, how that movie was made in I think 1982 that came out, and you know, to to that film still holds up. Like sure there's there's some stuff that you know, like the Atari stuff, you know, that's like in the background, we we know what happened to Atari now, but you know, like the the sets and the visual effects and you know the concept of like the flying cars, and they actually just like released the first like official flying car for purchase. And if if you look at what the model looks like, it's very uh similar, you know, type of model to um well we've got we've got three there's three different synthesizers on here.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

There's a mug, there's a a cog, and there's a there's a Selena string ensemble over there, and there's uh I think there's an old there's a wee rolling there as well. And we spend a lot of time in 2025, 2024, into 2025, still trying to find the exact sounds that were used in Blades Runner, just searching out. So there that's there, that that's the one, that's the one. Um that's uh that that that's a lifelong pursuit to find those that you did those to right.

Authenticity Over Chasing Trends

SPEAKER_04 40:48

But I mean, like our generation, like that's that's one of our favorite films of all time. And then, like, if you look at kids that were like, I want to say like mid-90s to Gen Z, they they they can't sip through, you know, the film, and it's boring to them, you know. Not all Gen Zers and not all the generation that was born mid-90s and you know, into Gen Z, but sure there's a bunch of them, a good portion that has an appreciation for film and stuff like that. But it's like the same thing I noticed when the first like Evil Dead remake came out, and basically the the first Jen who grew up with like Evil Dead, Evil Dead 2, Army of Darkness, and like were fans of Bruce Campbell and Sam Raimi, you know, before Sam Raimi went into like you know, professional film and Spider-Man and all that stuff. But like we were like, this movie fucking sucks. This is not Evil Dead, you know. You know, me from a writer's perspective, I could give you a whole list of uh reasons why that movie is terrible, besides not being Evil Dead, which I I won't go into, but you know, like it's the it's the same thing, you know, like and and the fact that Hollywood is literally like you know, rebooting and remaking and you know, adding sequels, you know, to stuff. The only one that I am like, you know, I was okay with was Blade Runner 2049. That's the only one that I was like, yeah, you know, if they could do special effects now, you know, that would be one movie sequel that I was like, I I could justify. But like, I mean, more Halloween stuff, you know. I mean, Michael Myers would be like in his like 70s now, you know, like Jason, you know, you know, the Friday the 13th franchise has the most inconsistent timeline with all the sequels, you know. And if Jason was supposed to be a kid in like the 1950s, I I mean, we know he's like a zombie at this point, you know, with how they you know rebooted it, but I mean, even that, you know, I mean he'd be so decrepit, you know. It would be like, I you know, even Freddie Kruger, it's like, you know, we don't need more more of the the have you have have you seen the Nosferatu reboot, the the recent one of that?

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Have you watched that?

SPEAKER_04 43:37

I have not, and and I'll tell you exactly why I'm not going to. That movie, the trailer I saw is like shot for shot Francis Ford Copa's Bram Stoker's Dracula.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

And I've heard I I made the mistake of like voicing my opinion about the movie on on Facebook. And you know, had to get into it with a bunch of people, but thank god there's like more people who think like me versus the the the younger generation that this movie is like oh my god, it's so effing good. You know, I'm like, dude, go back and watch Bram Stoker's Dracula, it is better than this movie, and I was for countless reasons. Gary Oldman was a way better Dracula and vampire than Bill Skarsgord. Not that I don't like Bill Skarsgard, but you know, I I think the original It miniseries with Tim Curry was way better than the It, you know, reboot movies. They made it more like Freddie Krueger instead of like what Pennywise is supposed to be. The Crow remake, I don't even get me started on on how much like that movie should just not have even been made. Should not exist. And then the whole subject of music, too. You know, I because I interviewed uh the director of the original Crow, who also did Dark City and you know, a bunch, bunch of other classic great movies, and we talked specifically a lot about the crow and the the music choices that were used in the film, and more specifically, why Hollywood, no matter how much they try, can never recreate or recapture the magic that that was you know in the crow. It was a movie of the times because all the music that was in that movie and Trend Reznor from Nine Inch Nails worked with the director to specifically handpick each band that was used in the film. And one of the on top of the shoe gaze and noise rock medicine, I actually discovered from that that movie, who I've since been following. I'm a big fan of, along with just nine inch nails in general and you know, all the other music that was in that movie. I mean, it's just it's just like you can't, you cannot do that. And it's more about also about just respect for the dead. You know, the fact that Brandon Lee, you know, died tragically before the film, you know, came out and they had to finish it with I actually just learned this. The the the stunt actor who played took over for the rest of the shooting for the original crow that they uh you know digitally uh imposed Brandon Lee's face on for the rest of the film after he you know sadly passed. Actually is the the guy who like wrote and directed is like behind the John Wick franchise.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Oh really?

Film Nostalgia, Remakes, And Standards

Craft, Nepotism, And Earning It

SPEAKER_04 46:57

Yeah. Um which I was like that that I found really interesting because that would make a lot of sense, you know, with how his knowledge of like weapons and you know combat and stuff like that, which you can obviously see translates to all the John Wick Wick movies. I mean, the the second one, especially, how you know he's he's you know getting all his weapons, you know, to go do the the hit thing, and the dude's giving like the full full description of like every single weapon, you know, that he has, and like only someone who is like a stunned person, you know, and familiar with like weapons and stuff like that would have the knowledge to like would get off on that eye. Exactly. Exactly. The only the only movie from from what's his name, Rob Robert Eggers, that that I like is The Northmen. I'm gonna say that that one is really good. It's like a Viking epic, yeah, yeah. Viking like action epic, and on The Skarsgard, that's the oldest one. What's his name? Alex Alexander Skarsgard is is the star, and what's her name? Tanya Taylor Thomas or whatever, the the the actress who he uses in like most of his movies is in that. And that that one was really good because that was like accurate, and actually, also on the subject of music, Bjork has has a role in it. It's like a Viking spirit or you know, goddess or something. That that movie is worth watching. Just his other stuff. I I kind of, you know, I'm a big horror movie fan, especially from like the old stuff from like, you know, the 70s and 80s, and I guess the 90s is technically old now. But you know, I I see a lot of directors and and new like people that are big right now, that all I kind of see is, you know, like like exactly what we were talking about earlier with like the wrong example of what you you brought up earlier. We were talking about with like how you know art imitates art, you know, and and you take influences from you know stuff from the past and everything. And you know, I'm also very like, you know, picky with with film and stuff, because like I would consider as much as I'm in the music, I'm probably twice as much or three times as much in the film. And I just kind of see like the the the people that are big right now that are like dominating the charts, especially with like Nosferatu and movies like Hereditary and stuff like that. Like, I just I I I see too much of like stuff that was to me is like not that old. You know, I know you know the 80s, you know, for some people is over 40 years ago, you know, and fierce away from that myself. But you know, like, you know, I I I was born in the late 80s, grew up in the 90s, and got like the best of you know both worlds because everything that was like, you know, 70s and 80s, you know, was still like very relevant, you know, in the 90s. And it wasn't until we got to like the 2000s, more so into the 2010s and on, that we're like in this era where you know, we feel the need to like reboot this these popular franchises from you know the like how many decades prior. I mean, I love Texas Chainsaw, I love Freddie, I love Jason, the the only one that has been consistent with like staying in the same, you know, canon or whatever you want to call it is is Chucky, you know, the child's play stuff. That's the only franchise from that would definitely be from the 80s that is still, you know, in the same universe, you know, and consistently making like good stuff, even with the series. But I just see too much of like, you know, this was from that, you know, this is clearly a rip-off from this, this other film, you know. And you know, I like I know especially in film and in music too, like you're supposed to take from your your influences and make something new, but like the mainstream stuff is like all I see is is like no, like I said, no Sparatu just from watching the trailer is like a rip-off from Bram Stoker's Dracula. So much so that it's like I I don't know how like Coppola isn't suing Eggers for like clearly ripping off, you know, so many just shot for shot scenes from from his his Dracula. And I know people shit on Keanu Reeves for you know having a shitty, you know, br British accent, but like look at the dude now, you know. You know, you know, and I personally think Anthony Hopkins was fantastic as Van House. And I think Winoda Ryder is was way hotter and a better actress than Johnny Depp's daughter. And I don't like that she's in it because it just is like the whole Nipo baby thing. I mean, I get, you know, that like, you know, if you're in Hollywood and and all that, I mean, obviously, you know, we've had the the first generation or even second generation with some people, depending on like the family dynasties. But yeah, I'm just like sick of like the I guess would be the the newest generation of like Nipo babies in Hollywood, whereas just it's like just because like your mommy or daddy is like so-and-so, you know, they automatically get like a pass to to have you know career in whatever it is, music, Hollywood, acting, whatever. And I I just don't think that's that's like fair to you know how many other people want to become you know actors because they were fans of you know either their parents or even you know film is literally over a hundred years old now. There's so much of it that you know you can be a fan of you know this, this, and that person has been dead for like 50 plus years, you know, and say that's your inspiration. But you know, I I just you know I have respect for basically the the the celebrity parents that say you know to their kids, if this is what you want to pursue, then you know, I'm gonna cut all funding to you, and you have to do the do this on your own and literally make it on your own with no help from you know me or your mother or your uncle or you know whoever is like you know connected in Hollywood, you have to do this on your own. And if you fail, it's because you're you're not good, basically. You know, but if you succeed, then that means you know you do have what it takes, and you know, you worked hard and you understand what it what it's like to struggle, you know, just like we had to, you know, to to you know, to get to where we are now in our status in Hollywood. That's that's what I think I feel, and a lot of other, you know, people, not just in America, but seeing how it's happening all around the world and in film right now, that's just how I feel because that's how I was raised. You know, I was raised, you have to work hard. You have if if you want to succeed, you know, no one's gonna help you. You know, you have to basically, you know, do it on your own and find the help, you know, with working with people that you know you did by you networking and you connecting with those people and you really having to struggle and starve, you know, to to you know, to get to where you want to be. And that that's really the old-fashioned, you know, type of thinking. And I think we've gone away from that a lot, especially with like the Gen Zers. But and that that's like what we were both saying before, very worried about the future of not just cinema, not just music, but us as a society as a whole. Um I think that's like a a big uh big concern, but didn't mean to go on a on a philosophical, theological uh rant right there, but I'm very I'm very passionate about film and I'm very opinionated also, but I think my opinionation and those opinions are valid, and you know, any real like cinema goer or you know, person who considers them a music aficionado, or whether it's on rock or shoe gaze, rap, jazz, country, you know, or just music in general, I think would would agree with me on that. That that's just my take. What's up, all my fitches in the team? Thanks again for tuning in and for being a subscriber. Your continued support means a lot. I want to let all my topics in the team know you can now purchase custom fitbull marks by DMing me at SamFit on Instagram at theFitchCool88 or on Facebook at the Fitchball. Get hooked on yours today. We have custom t-shirts, mugs, and handbags, apps, beanies, footies, everything to make you the course book and fitness. And if that's not enough, I am now accepting early access subscribers on my Buzz Pro website. That's right, you can subscribe for early access to the Fishbooks content, as well as I am accepting donations to help keep the show going. Again, your support means the most, it's the most important pitches in the city to keep the unit going. Uh thanks again, y'all, and keep tuning in and let's all keep swimming upstream.