Does Star Wars Top The Lord of the Rings? — Intentionally Blank Ep. 254

The first part was so good, we had to do another! Brandon Sanderson and Dan Wells are here for Part 2 of their trilogy rankings, tackling Hollywood's most iconic movie trilogies. Who will rise to the top, who shall take the fall, and what other surprises are in store? All that and more on today's episode of Intentionally Blank!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Dan, we're gonna try to go faster this time. Okay. No food hoists. No no food hoists. No hoisting our food.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

We are gonna finish our trilogy right through our trilogy list. Next one up is Oceans 11.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Let's just say if you missed this, we have a part one. We're ranked for the best trilogies of all time. We got long-winded last time. We are going to get long-winded this time, but we're gonna start pretending that we're not going to.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Yeah. Oceans trilogy. Oceans. First one, I love and adore.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

The third one, I have a soft spot for while recognizing that it's not very good. Okay. The second one has both my least favorite and most favorite heist things ever. So I'm very mixed on number two.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

So this is the same for me that you talked about last time when you talked about how you train your dragon. I could not tell you what happens in a movie two or three, other than Julia Roberts gets recruited.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Could not tell you. The first one is an all-timer, I've seen it many times. Two or three, never watched again, never was interested in watching again. I enjoyed them when I watched them. I'm sure I walked out and said, That's a good film. Just totally can't remember a thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, and that's fair. The first one is so far above the others that it's unfair to include them all as a trilogy, frankly. Yeah. Yeah. Number two, they are trying to make as much money as they can. Uh-huh. And part of their plan is to raise the level of a house in Venice by a few inches so they can make a crossbow shot. I remember their return on investment cannot possibly be in the red on that one. And I do remember Julia Roberts has to pretend to be Julia Roberts. And that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Uh-huh. Just the audacity of having the actor playing somebody else who gets recognized by Bruce Willis playing himself, thinking that it's the real Julia Roberts. The whole thing is so funny. I love it for that reason. It's the only good part of the movie. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Well, I do remember that. I have to put it in C.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I don't know. C? Yeah. Is one strong enough to put the whole trilogy into C for you? I have to speak out.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

I feel like 13 is much better than we're giving it credit for. I don't know where you're.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Like I said, it's better than it has any right to be.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

But that's still not very good. Where the friend of theirs dies at the beginning and they decide to get revenge. Yes. So I do remember one thing about it. I could not tell you what happens after that moment because that moment was strong.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

I feel like it has some of the strongest cinematography in it. I think there's a great score. I think the acting and the script on it is great. This is looking at your guys' list, I'd watch those three movies over Guardians of the Galaxy. That's me. But see, it's not whether the movies are good, it's whether they're a trilogy. That's true. As a trilogy, I'd rather watch all three of those than all three of Guardians in the trilogy aspect.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Yeah. Person. So yeah, I will put Oceans into C and I'll put it above How to Train Your Dragon because I would rewatch any of those three before I'd rewatch How to Train Your Dragon.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

So I got to put it above JJ Abrams. I would absolutely watch any Oceans movie before I watched movie two of Star Trek. But as a cohesive trilogy, it obviously didn't leave an impact. I didn't have to be like, oh, I have to see movies two and three to understand movie one. Like good players. There is not an arc that carries across.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

One is so beautifully self-contained that the others are just victory laps that don't land.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

And I mean, let's be honest, let's be perfectly honest. 11 people is too many for a heist team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

A lot of them don't get developed very well. Yeah, no, they don't. It's a cool title, but they do not need 11 people in that team. They need like five.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Also, I will say the Mormon twins.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

They are referred to in the first movie as the Mormon twins, and there's a couple of fantastic Mormon jokes.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

There are.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

And then that gets completely dropped for two and three. Yeah. And I missed that.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yeah, they were they were good. At least it gave them something, right? Right. So the moment at the first one where they go to the fountain of the Bellagio and then one by one leave. Such a great shot. Oh, yeah. All right. So what's this is not a reflection on Oceans 11 being an S-tier film. That's just pointing. Right, no, good point.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Pirates of the Caribbean, the first three. None of their after whatever. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I have been shocked to see recently online, and by recently I mean in the past few weeks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

A ton of love for Pirates 2 and 3. I'm one who does like Pirates 2 and 3, so I can speak to that. So here's why I like Pirates 2 and 3. They did bungle one main thing. Jack Sparrow doesn't work nearly as well as he does in the first one. And that's a big thing. Yeah. The world building is so much fun. I'm an epic fantasy guy. All of the stuff with Calypso and the ocean and the Pirate Council and Jack being sent to hell and trying to figure out what's going on. And Davy Jones and the CG and the world building of Davy Jones is called Crew.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Wonderful. A lot of what you love about those movies is why I don't like them. Okay. I thought that their big expanded universe just became very cumbersome very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

It turned into an epic fantasy universe from a single There's one weird ship out there to now it's a whole world of weird ships. But it's one of the ways you can take it. I am fond of the second two, while acknowledging, like, again, one big fault. Like Captain Jack in the first movie, you get in five minutes his character, he's on a sinking ship, he talks his way past the dock, and he's the only person that will save Elizabeth Swan when she's drowning. He is hard of gold, good person, gets himself into schemes, gets himself out of them. And we start the second one, we pretend he doesn't care about anyone. Like he he has no moral compass joke implied, right? Yeah. And they have to do a whole thing with that. We're like, no, our initial introduction to Jack is he's the guy that'll jump in the water and save the drowning woman. Um, and that's why at the end they save him because he's a good man, he's a biary, he's a good man. And they threw that out for movie two so he could have an arc again.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

And well, well, I will also say he is by far the breakout character from the first one, but he was not the main character of the first one. No, and and they made him the main character of two and three, and I don't think that character supported the stories well.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

It totally could, but they didn't pull it off. I think he could have. And so I will acknowledge movie two and three are flawed movies, and the first one's a perfect movie. It's another one of these things where it's a great opener and didn't quite know what to do. One's an all-timer, but I have to put the whole trilogy, you're gonna hate me on this, in A. In A. I would absolutely go watch a Pirates film over a born film any day. Oh my gosh. Give me my epic fantasy, guys. It's at the end of A. It's at the end of it. It's the end of A.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

The thing is, first Pirates movie is S tier, S plus, phenomenal, one of the greatest adventure, if not the greatest adventure movie ever, right? Okay, yeah. And I really don't like two and three at all. Come on. Barbosa's so good. Barbosa's great. He's so good. Davy Jones is so good. Yeah, but it's just them like here's more of us, and the situations we're in are increasingly ridiculous. Yep, that's true. It's not untrue.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

I cannot take those movies seriously. That's not untrue. They do end up on a giant wheel riding through the forest, trying to get Davy Jones' heart, which is locked in the thing. It's dumb, but it's fun dumb. Yep. I'm gonna put them in C. Okay. And I am happy with it above each thing it's above. Yep. I am cool with it being above. Let's see.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Where am I gonna put pirates in C? Yeah. I'm gonna put it first in C. First in C.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Okay. You would watch it over oceans, but not over. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

I'd watch it over oceans or how to train your.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

My whole rankings, I think most everything is higher than yours, though. So a lot of them are, yes. All right. Jurassic Park trilogy. Okay. So is world number. No, no. No, no, no. No, there's a three that wasn't done in the first one. One, two, and three.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Right. There is a third that just exists. World is its own trilogy that is not on this list. But we can if we want to.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Because I have not seen any of the world spokes. Oh, I saw the first world spoke. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah. All right. This is an easy D for me.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Is Pteranodons?

SPEAKER_00 8:41

No, it's the what are the this is gonna be. Is it Pterodactyls, the flying ones in the case?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

That's three. Yeah. And so two is Malcolm comes back, and three is Dr. Grant comes back. Correct. Okay. I have seen them all and do remember them all.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

I, to be fair, have not seen the third one because the second one was super bad, and I didn't see the point of watching another one.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

I do not say consider the second one super bad. Uh I do. I will stand by two. Three is not good. Three is brutal. It's not good. It's really not good. And two is missing a bunch of the magic.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

But one is one is a fantastic like greatest hits of all time. It's definitely not a D to me. Definitely not a D. I'm putting it in D. Over or below Star Trek for you, Dan. Below. Okay. And here's the thing. I love the first one. It is a perfect movie.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

As a trilogy, I'm gonna go C. C. Alright. I will go C. I can't in good conscience put it in D, knowing what's gonna go in D. But I would watch it above. Yeah. Top of C. Top of C. So above oceans and above Star Trek. That's rough. So Jurassic Park 1 is better than either of the best films in Oceans or uh Star Trek. I'll give you that. Three is worse than and than any of the Oceans films, but it is not worse than Star Trek 2. Ergo, it's in C. Okay. At the top of C. Man, people are gonna have so many opinions.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

People are gonna be. I don't know. Can people really be upset about us not liking Jurassic Park 2 and 3? No. I didn't even say I don't like two, it's just three.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, I like two. I think two's fun. Yeah, two's fun. I mean, I have not seen a bad Spielberg film. Right? Did he direct two, though? Yeah, I think he directed two. I'm like not even.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

I thought he just produced. Um I'm curious to find out. Yeah. I used to teach classes on Spielberg movies. Did you? Yeah, it's directly.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

I have not seen a bad Spielberg film. There is reportedly one from the 80s that I intentionally haven't watched. But I have not seen a bad Spielberg film. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

All right, what's next? The Star Wars original trilogy.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yay, yay for D's. I finally get to put something in D. Wait, the original trilogy? Oh, not original. No prequel. Oh, never mind. So this is original.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

I think it has to be an S. Foundational to generations of people. Changed not just how people made movies, but how people marketed movies. Yep. Like everything about them.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

And it's right behind Indiana Jones for me. It's ahead of Back to the Future. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

I'm gonna put it ahead of Boren as well. Okay. But I still prefer Indiana Jones.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I mean, I think. It's hard to say. I would put on Indiana Jones film, but that's partially because I've seen the Star Wars films too many times. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like they're so much a part of pop culture. When you go to a party, particularly when we went to a party during the era where you know we were often going to parties, someone would have a Star Wars film on. Like you would go to your friends and be like, What did we watch? We watched Star Wars. Like so overplayed that that keeps me. I think Indiana Jones just feels more fresh to me. We taped them off TV. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

As soon as they had a box set, we bought that. We can probably post those movies. The first Star Wars movie over a hundred times.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

And I'm also the Star Wars III apologist. I love Return of the Jedi. I love Return of the Jedi. That's supposed to be the weakest one. Unfairly maligned. It is the weakest one, but I love it. And so that indicates that like if your weakest one is better than almost every other film on here, then straight and death. All right. Sorry, I jumped the gun on what gets to go.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Well, as long as we're talking about Star Wars, should we do prequels next? Yeah, we can do prequels. Prequels. Yeah. Prequels. Now we get to put something in D. D. And I know that there's a huge swell of love for the prequels. Yeah. Primarily from the people who grew up with them. That was their Star Wars trilogy, just like the original series was ours as kids, and that's totally fine. I think they're pretty bad across the board.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

But here's the thing because they're camp bad, they stray into bad movie bad. Meaning, if you put one on because of how much camp is in there and because of the memes and things, I will enjoy it. Right? They are, I think, maybe not objectively, but objectively with some subjectivity, the worst movies on here. Worse than the sequels? Who were the sequels? On here that we've put on. Okay, okay. That we've already put up. That we've already put up. Absolutely. They are the worst of any movies we have talked about before. Even the J.J. Abrams, the one that we don't like, it's because of what it did to Star Trek and its narrative. It's a very competently well-made movie. The acting is good, like the pacing is good, like these the acting is they aren't well directed. The pacing is terrible. The world building is audacious in how boring it is. I'm very fond of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

I remember when one came out, we all said, Oh, that was so great. And then within a day, we were like a single day. We're like, no. Does it? That doesn't hold up. And then the same thing with three. Like, yes, finally a good Star Wars prequel. And then within a day, we're like, well, okay, never mind. Yeah. Whereas I never felt that about two. Yeah. I never thought two was really hitting it out of the park.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yeah. So two is where we get R2D2 and C3PO back, though. There's at least that love. But yeah. One kind of had C3PO. No, but C3PO is in your comic relief role in two. Right. And that's at least I remember.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Well, and we didn't get them as a pair until two, as far as I remember. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

But oh man. Why I'm so happy to put this in D is because they are lovable Ds. Right? Yes. Most things that we would put in D, we would be cringing. These are lovable Ds. Next one I'm going to find really interesting, what you think. The sequel trilogy? The plan. Oh, that's do we want to do this? Let's see. While we're talking about Star Wars, let's hit them all. Is there something lower than D?

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I want to create an F category for the sequels. All right. I will create an F real quick. Because one, I can still love some of the choices they made. I love Qui-Gon Jin. I love Darth Maul. I loved some of Padme. Yep. They were doing some interesting things, whereas I feel like the sequels did not have a fresh idea in their heads at all.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Oh, they did.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Well, the Ryan Johnson's had a lot of cool new stuff.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

It just didn't work. But we've talked about it at Nauseum. Some people really like number two. I can understand why they do. I just don't.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Two is my favorite of the sequels because it is the only one that dared to do something different. But even then, I don't think it pulled it off.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

I mean, the bad stuff in two is so bad. The fact that it's a slow chase, slow pace chase through space. Say that ten times in a world where people have FTL travel. Why, like, why are the enemy slowly chasing this convoy? Why? Yeah. Like, this isn't a pot hole. This is a I sat in the theater, I'm like, warp ahead of them. You know, like light speed. Light speed ahead of them. They drop bombs in space. I'm okay with this because there's gravity in Star Wars space. Sort of. No, there just has to be. I don't think there's gravity outside the ships. There has to be. Otherwise, the banking of the ships don't make any sense. From movie one, there's established gravity in space. Okay. And there's air in space. I'll allow it. There's air in space, otherwise, there's no sound. So in the Star Wars universe from movie one. So I'm okay with the dropping bombs, even though it's dumb and makes you be like, wait, what? But what bothers me is like the pacing and the plotting makes no sense.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

No.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

The story makes no sense. Luke is the travesty. It just uh and it's all anyway. The salt planet's cool looking. Um the salt planet looks cool, but we don't need to rehearse the stuff. We've already done that. I will watch any Star Wars prequel before any of those. Oh, absolutely. Correct. So, all right, now an interesting one. Yes. Planet of the Ages trilogy. This is the 2002. The modern Planet of the Ages with Caesar. I guess they all had Caesar. Yeah, they all had Caesar. I am really fond of these. Yeah. I think they are widely underappreciated. They do a different thing with each film, but they form a cohesive trilogy. They are all well acted, well scripted. They are going an A for me. I can see that actually. I don't know if I I can put them above pirates. Okay. I can definitely put them above pirates. I don't know if I can put them above Iron Man. They're all good, though. It's hard because this is an actual good trilogy. It holds together as a trilogy. It's it has no film stream.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Real science fiction, too, instead of just action movie science fiction.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Top of A. Top of A? Top of A. So here's my argument. Okay. Above aliens. Because of my ranking things. Okay. There is not a single one of the Planet of the Apes films that is better than the best film in each one below it. Oh, okay. Does that make sense? So Aliens best film, best films are better than any of the Planets of the Apes. Yeah. The Nolans, really great ones, better. The Guardians one is better. Iron Man One and Three, probably better. And The Pirates one is better. But none of those are a trilogy in the same way Planet of Apes is, where it is actually advancing a world and the movies hold together and then come to a big climax. They are a trilogy like Lord of the Rings does, without having a trilogy of books to build. I think as a trilogy, I'm going to put them there. That's I think that's completely you can disagree and I think that's good placement.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah. It's a trilogy where all three are great, which none of the others you have in A can say that. I'm going to put it up into A as well, but I'm not certain where to put it. So And it's because three may not be the best.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Two, I think.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

They are a little slower paced. Yeah. I love them. I think that they're smart and interesting. Yep. How many of them did the guy that made the Batman make?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I think. Let me double check.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

I want to say I think he did all three. Did he direct all three? I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

I'm going to leave them right there. I have to put Aliens Back to the Future and Three Flavors above Planet of the Apes. Okay. But I'm happy with those.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

But it'd be weird if you rank the movies. They're not going to be in the highest tier of the movies, individual movies. But you can see that I give a lot of weight to you make a trilogy well.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Right. And they watch, I just why I rewatched them like a month ago. Yeah. They watch back to back super duper well. Yeah. For having three years apart between each film, they killed it. Matt Reeves did this second and third, and Rupert Wyatt did the first. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

That explains there is a tone of between one and two. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

All right. The Godfather trilogy. The Godfather trilogy. The Godfather trilogy.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Oh man. Yeah. Three isn't as bad as people say. Three isn't as bad. Okay. You want to hear the confession that's going to have people furious at me? What? You like one better than two? I do like one. Really? A lot more than two. Okay. I feel like the time shifts in two detract rather than add.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Wow. That's a take. That is a take.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

I love the time shifts in two. Yeah. They're so revolutionary. And I think they changed the way that people see cinema and make film. I don't think we would have lost without Godfather 2, right? Bouncing back and forth? Yeah. I don't think we would have the way of kings without Godfather 2. Momentum.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

This is an extremely minority opinion. Yeah. But in my opinion, they are. One, two, three, in that order. I'm going to put them in S.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Okay. Bottom of S. Bottom of S. But I'm going to put them in S. With the admission that Godfather 2 is a great all-time film. But S is every film in the S has multiple great all-time films. I think one and two are great. And three, it's not as bad as people say. Still very good. So there's where I am.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Well, here's where I'm in trouble. Because I feel like historically Godfather should be an S. Uh-huh. But I think I like the Aliens trilogy more.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Okay. Oh. So it's got to go into A.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

So it has to go into A under Aliens.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Okay. So right here?

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Yeah. Under Aliens. Okay. All right. Above Back to the Future, but Under Aliens. You can move Aliens to S, Dan. I might have to by the time we're done with this. Okay. All right. Terminator. Terminator. Terminator. What is the third Terminator movie?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

It's the one where Arnold has the coffin over his shoulder. They kill Sarah Connor. I can't remember the movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

I don't know if I've seen it. It's not very good.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

I mean, hot take, right? Terminator 3 is not very good. It's superior to a bunch of the stuff they did after, still. But the problem with Terminator 3 is that the Newt Principle. Indicates that if you do any more Terminator films, you are ruining Terminator 2, whose whole point was there is no future but what we make. Ergo, you have to end. Yeah. Otherwise, and so they do not hold together as a trilogy. No. It's a disaster of a trilogy because three just destroys two.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah. And two tried, if I remember correctly, tried pretty hard to tie up all the loose ends. And terminate.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Was there an arm that got left behind? The arm, the arm didn't get left behind. They've destroyed it. And then the whole point of two is that Arnold has to kill himself. He has to self-terminate. Or I cannot self-terminate in order to prevent the future from happening. And so they do. And two is a fantastic escalation from one. Yeah. But three, as a trilogy, like they do not hold together.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

No, they don't.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

And T2 is just amazing. So where can I put it? As a trilogy. To remind everyone.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

As a trilogy, I am going to put it in D. D. And I'm going to put it below Jurassic Park, but above the Star Wars prequels. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

I don't think I can do that because they at least tried. I'll put it in C. Okay. I'm going to put it above the JJ1's. I'm going to put it at the top of C. Okay. Top of C. Top of C. Over Jurassic Park. Yeah. Because here's the thing. They do try, it's bad what they do in three, but they try really hard to make it a trilogy. Yes. They try to try to give it continuity. And seeing John Connor not be born as a kid and then step up and be a leader is an arc for him.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Okay. Okay. Put it above Jurassic Park in mind. Okay. Okay. Because Terminator has two good movies. Jurassic Park trilogy, I think, only has one. Plus, I think if I'm looking at Terminator 2 versus the first Jurassic Park, I have to give the nod to Terminator 2. Okay. Okay. The Hobbit trilogy. Oh, man. D. D. D. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Not F. Good Moments. Holds Together as a trilogy. Poorly. Because it shouldn't be a trilogy. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

I don't know. I might I might drop it to F. Really? Because I'm remembering like it does some of the dumbest possible things. Like Triangle. The whole second movie is about killing Smog.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

But he doesn't die until the first three minutes of the third movie, which is honestly one of the worst narrative decisions I've ever seen in film.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

That's a terrible movie.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Ever. Plus, most of the third movie is extraneous nonsense. It is. That doesn't apply to anything.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

You think the second movie isn't mostly extraneous nonsense? How long is the barrel scene? I love the barrel scene. How long is the fight with the goblins in movie one? How long is the fight with the goblins? No, it's not. The fight with the goblins. They fought goblins? Off-screen. Off-screen, okay. But we know that it happened. Uh-huh. Radigast poop in his hair. Um why I'm putting in his D is it at least tries to be a trilogy. And also, there are some fantastic performances. Ian Holm as Bilbo is inspired casting.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

He gives it his Ian Holm was the old Bilbo. Yes. We're talking about what's his name?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

The guy from He's in Black Panther.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Yes. Martin Freeman.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Martin Freeman. Freeman. There you go. Yes. Martin Freeman does a fantastic Bilbo. I mean, Gandalf, still great.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

I'm going to keep Hobbit in F, but I'm going to put it above Star Wars sequels.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Star Wars sequels get to have their own thing. They get to be in their own. I am going to put the Hobbit trilogy above the prequels. Okay. Just so you know, because the prequels are a failure in every regard. And like the smog versus Bilbo scene is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Yeah, them talking to each other.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Like there are good scenes like that in the prequels at all. And so I have to rate it above the prequels. Right. Yeah. Okay. Sound.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Okay. The Matrix. The Matrix trilogy.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

I am fond of Pirates. I am fond of Matrix 2 and 3.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

I will stake a claim on them not being nearly like one is better. But I think one is only a half point better. I don't think the span is like huge.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

I'll disagree with that. Okay. I think one is significantly better than two and three. But I also like two and three more than I think the average person does.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

So I'm going to put them in A. Okay. Where an A. If I'm going to have to watch them, I'm going to put them above Iron Man.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Okay.

unknown 26:47

All right.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Internet's going to hate this. But I think they hold together as a trilogy better than Iron Man does. Just a little bit. They both do a good job with the trilogy. I think writing a sequel to The Matrix was a near-impossible task, and they did it, and it's pretty good. And three is the weakest, but you know what? They're doing interesting new things. The Assault on Zion, him going outside the Matrix and still having powers because of these things, and they made it work, made sense. Yeah. Whole thing. Great. So A tier trilogy.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

I am also going to put it just above Iron Man, but that puts it in B. Yep. And I'm happy with that. I do think the Nolan Batman trilogy is better. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

The Steve Rogers Captain America trilogy. For those who are wondering, this is Civil War, Winter Soldier, and his first one.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

First Avenger, yes. Winter Soldier, and Civil War.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Second is strongest still. Over Civil War, would you agree?

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yeah. I think a lot of these that we've looked at, like Pirates and The Matrix and so on, was here's one incredible idea and we make sequels because the first one was popular. Whereas Captain America, I think did a good job of escalating quality. Two is the best, and then one and then three, but three is still very good.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah, and I like three. I would put three over one. Really? So one is a strange film to me. I think the first half of one is fantastic, and the second half of one is kind of boring. Everything actually saves the guys and has proved himself as Captain America gets boring real fast to me. Red Skull, they wasted Hugo Weaving. Hey, just a cackling maniacal, you know. Look how much of a Nazi I am without being a Nazi. Right. And it just second half.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

But then No, now that you point it out, everything I like about the first one is all in the first half. The historical stuff, the World War II stuff, I really love.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

But Civil War is incredible. Civil War is great.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

It gives us the first big multi-superhero fight that the franchise had. With both two and three, I feel like the movies are asking very interesting and salient questions that they don't have good answers for.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah, that's a problem. Right. Getting me to agree that Iron Man wouldn't agree with Steve Rogers in movie three is really hard. And I think that's a problem, right? Because Iron Man doesn't represent the establishment. He ignores the establishment. That's through all three movies of his.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Good argument.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Endgame paid off civil war in a way that improves civil war for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

So I does it deserve S? That's the big question. Does it deserve S?

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Man, it might.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

I think I'm I think I'm gonna put it in S. I think it's gonna go in there. I think it can beat The Godfather, but I think it it doesn't beat The Godfather for me. But they do a good job. I think one thing holding it back is it does need another film, like you just pointed out.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

To really sell the character arcs. Yep. I'm gonna put it below back to the future. Okay. And I am So it's an A for him. Yeah, so it's an A. And I am gonna bump aliens up to S. Alright. I had a feeling it was gonna happen. I feel bad because I don't think three belongs in an S.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yep. But we're ranking as trilogy.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

But we're ranking them as trilogies. I don't know. It's a tough guy. The thing is, every time I look at my list, I'm like, I can't put that above aliens. Do we want to do another episode? Do we want to do three episodes on this? We could. We can get a few more off our list.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

We're gonna do a three-parter. Okay. We're gonna end here.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

See you next week. By this point, Ben has already texted us by the time these air. Uh-huh. And he's furious we didn't include him. I know you're all getting ranking.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

We'll try to do something else in between so you have to deal with this three weeks in a row. But yeah. All right. We'll see you then.