The Brandon and Dan Reunion — Intentionally Blank Ep. 266

Brandon Sanderson and Dan Wells reunite at last! Their conversation includes a long awaited catching up, food heists, and the best of the best evil lieutenants. All that and more on this week of Intentionally Blank!

Want to send me something to open?
Dragonsteel Entertainment
ATTN: Adam
P.O Box 698
American Fork, UT 84003

Join the DSNX26 Waitlist Here: https://conventions.leapevent.tech/entry/single/Dragonsteel_Nexus/371f286a-23fa-4b84-9ab9-17b8ecffdb49

Get your Wheel of Time updates here with the Bound and Woven newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/brandonsanderson/eye-of-the-world-campaign

Stay up to date by following my newsletter: https://brandonsanderson.us10.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=7d056bb7596a3e617f82004b2&id=fa68f14db0

Interested in signed books and swag? Check here: https://www.dragonsteelbooks.com/

You can also follow me on:
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@authorbrandonsanderson
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BrandSanderson
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brandsanderson/?hl=en
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mistbornbrandon

Frequently asked questions: https://faq.brandonsanderson.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Dan, it's been forever.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hey, it's um Brandon, right? That's right. Okay, yeah. You look familiar.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Where have you been?

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Well, I was in Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Yeah. I was uh an MLB star.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Oh, right. Major League Baseball.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

But I got a shoulder injury. The guys in their 40s walking on to late 40s, even.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

You know.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Yeah, that's their favorite age, actually, is aging Gen X people. So yeah, I got a shoulder injury, unsurprisingly. Yeah. Yeah. Which made it very difficult to raise my daughter, Samantha.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

After my wife either died or divorced me. I honestly cannot remember. Yeah. Either way, I figured it was a good idea to move out of Brooklyn to a suburb. Right. So I became the housekeeper for a very high-powered businesswoman.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Oh, awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Did that for a while.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

I'm sure you didn't fall in love with her and help her to come understand the power of family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Well, and the importance of being kind of laid back. She was very type A. I was very loose and Italian. Yeah. So yeah, that's where I've been.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

What about you? A magical undersea adventure with my crustacean friends. Whoa. Yeah. Oh man. How are they doing? Singing crab. And you know, he'd been ditched by his previous magical undersea adventure companion. Okay. And he's like, hey, do you want to go on a magical undersea adventure? And so we did. We visited Atlantis. Nice. I didn't like the food. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like very, very fishy. There was like this giant thing with lots of tentacles that I was supposed to defeat. Did you? No.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Did you befriend it?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

No. I just I don't had time for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Did it shatter your mind?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

No, I mean it was off in the distance and dark, and so it didn't drive me crazy. Uh I think it ate a boat or something. Okay. Yeah. Uh maybe two boats.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Maybe a boat drove through it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Out of rage or fear.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yep. Yeah. Okay. So I emerged in Australia and then had to find my way back. That's cool. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, it was something about P. Sherman something, something, something, Wallaby Lane or something is where we we ended up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Mm-hmm. Well, that's good. Yeah. Is that how you got to the ocean? Was uh all drains lead there and you just accidentally flushed with it. Like every kid is worried that they'll go down the bathroom drain you actually did.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Yeah, ended up in the ocean. Okay. Man. Magical adventure. It was it was magical. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Mine was magical only in that I fell in love with this uh woman. Yeah. And her horn dog mom. Those horn dog moms.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

What is up with them?

SPEAKER_03 2:47

I don't even know.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Anyway, it's good to be back. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, I've missed you. I've missed you too. Yeah. Plus, I've been furious every time an episode pops up and it's like some other author. You did one without me, you know. You've been cheating on me. You did one without me, too. I did two without me. You did two without me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Did you sign anything?

SPEAKER_03 3:08

I didn't sign anything. I should have.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

You should have been signing the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Yeah, I should have signed all these. No one would be upset about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

For those uh not benefiting from the YouTube feed, I am signing the Fires of December, first UK edition signature with a lovely head. It was a lovely head of December on it. Yay. Her art is so amazing.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

So what are we doing today, Donald? We are doing a very fun thing. So, Dan, because we missed you so much, you know, when we brought in Matt, we did, you know, we we remembered the little guys from our our favorite villains. And Brandon and I thought, you know, it's so good we should do it twice. So this time we're looking at the second lieutenants, if you will. Our our favorite. First lieutenant. First lieutenant, second.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Our favorite villainous toadies. Our favorite toadies. Okay. So we have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, but not low-ranking toadies, because Matt and I already covered that. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Okay, we're doing the high ranking. High ranking. The ones who bossed the minions around.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

And we have to rank them in a tier.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, before we get into this, I need to ask, because it has been so long.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Do you want a food heist? Sure. I'd love a food heist. We can't ask that. I have a double food heist. Okay. Cool. Okay. So first of all, this happened in. I don't know where it happened. Where did you happen? This happened in the US somewhere. Grapevine, Texas. Former employee of Chick-fil-A. Okay. Broke in after hours. He was a disgruntled former employee. Okay. He rang up 800 orders of mac and cheese.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Ha ha ha. You know I was going to like this one.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

And then he refunded them all to his own credit card.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

And walked away with $80,000. So he didn't actually steal food.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

He just used food.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

And he thought this would work.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Yeah. I mean, it's his credit card. He's on video of the camera he knew was there because he worked there.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Not the smartest uh chicken in the hen house there is this person. That sort of thing really works well. Yeah. There's no paper trail there.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Yeah, you budding food heisters out there, don't use your personal credit card. That's nonsense. Now that isn't really technically a food heist. That's right. Because he didn't steal food. But I shared that one so that it could contrast with this one. This one happened about a month ago. Somebody broke into a Popeye's chicken.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

In North Carolina.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Oh, they take their chicken seriously in North Carolina.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

I know.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

And this guy did not steal money. He stopped and he fried up a bunch of shrimp. Wait, he fried it himself? Yeah. He turned all the stuff on. He fried shrimp. He made some fries. He made a batch of biscuits. Ate them all, and then took a bunch of other food with him when he left.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Well, that one, that's way more charming. That's way more charming. Of course. Listen, aspiring food heist people, we do not encourage you to steal from anyone. But if you're going to, be charming about it. Be charming.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

I also find this one particularly delightful in comparison because I love Popeye's chicken. Yep. The guy who broke into Chick-fil-A, he was not there for the food.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

People break into other chicken places all the time. They never stop to make chicken unless they're breaking into a Popeye's. I would also believe maybe breaking into a church's. You'd stop and make some fried chicken for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

I don't think this person even really intended to be a thief. They're just they're just so kind and nice. They didn't want to make anyone else have to make their fried chicken for them. Well, I guess it would be. I'll make my own and then I'll get out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Yeah. The article doesn't say that he just left a bunch of money on the counter to pay for it, but I think we can safely.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

But he did, Dan, in a way. He's saving on labor costs. Yes. Like he's helping Popeye. Yeah, yeah. So that makes it a fair trade. Yeah, of course. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Like I think this person's name should have courteous in their name. The courteous chickener or something like that is like, you know, they aren't going to Food Heist prison because I mean who would arrest somebody?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Because that's barely even a crime.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

And that is the lesson I want our listeners to take home. Is if you make your own food in somebody else's restaurant after hours, that's a fair trade.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah. Much better than the guy who broke into someone's house and made a sandwich because you're going to terrify them. Right? Home invasions are not cool. You can't be considered courteous even if you made your own food.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

But very, very few people are lucky enough to live inside of a Popeye's chicken. So it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

It's just so irresistible. He could not help himself. They were closed. He needed some Popeye's chicken and shrimp, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Yeah. So and biscuits and fries.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Biscuits. So there you go. They do. It's one of the very few places that I will choose the biscuit over the fries if I'm only having one side. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know. There's a chicken place, and I can't remember, and maybe it's Popeye's, where their biscuits are just so dry. And I don't love that as much.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

KFC. KFCs are pretty dry. KFCs could be very gay.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

Yeah. All right. Anyway, there's your delightful double heist for today.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Am I right on this, Donald? Popeye's chicken no longer uses Popeye as their mascot. Oh, that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

It's been a long time, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

I'm right on that, right? We can look.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Oh, they 100% don't now. Did they ever? I was making a joke.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

When I was a kid, when we went to Popeye's Chicken, you got like a Popeye Happy Meal with Popeye himself on it. But I believe I researched it once, and it was not named after Popeye the sailor.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

It was just someone else named Popeye?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Someone that maybe they were named after Popeye or something, but there's something going on there. But they had to pay for the Popeye. For the little mascot guy. And then they stopped doing that. And that made me confused because I had always thought that they were inexorably linked, but it turns out they're not. Yeah, he just found it. Isn't named after the cartoon character, but Gene Hackman's character from the French connection.

SPEAKER_03 9:38

What? That's delightful. Yeah, because if Popeye's chicken was named after Popeye, then they would have to fry in olive oil instead of whatever they fry in, right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Well, no, you can't fry in olive oil. No, you absolutely can't. It would burn.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Its burning point is so low.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Well, also, that was horrible to her. You don't use olive oil because we receive. Oh, because Popeye loves her so much. All right. We should actually get to our thing. We absolutely can. But you're right. If we had gone and not had a food heist on our first time back together. Yeah, we would have had riots in the streets. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Also, you notice that we've been going for how long? I can't we didn't set up a timer. But we we're getting to the point relatively quickly. I mean, it's probably been like 10 minutes, but for us, it's like 12. That's pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

12 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Well, yeah. We're disciplined. Yes. This is the new and improved. Intentionally blank.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Did you see any shows while you were while you were uh in you moved to New York?

SPEAKER_03 10:41

While I was in Brooklyn and then a suburb somewhere. Yeah. No? No. Oh, like movies and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, or or the means the What did I watch?

SPEAKER_03 10:50

The I watched the Wonder Man series.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Oh, did you? How is that?

SPEAKER_03 10:55

MCU one.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

It is an incredibly interesting, touching, wonderful story about struggling actors in LA that is occasionally interrupted by the most boring possible version of a superhero story. Oh, that's awesome. It is shockingly stark, the difference between them.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

I watched the Weird Owl movie. Oh, nice. Oh, yeah. Oh weird. Was it weird? It was weird. I still don't quite know what I think of it. I love UHF. Let's let's put this as our baseline. UHF is a movie that I was stunned to discover had not been popular because among my friend group as a kid growing up, UHF was one of the go-tos. If no one could agree on a movie, you grabbed UHF and put it on and everyone was happy. Everyone quoted it at school. Yeah. So it must be one of those movies that got popular in the Yuca set. This movie is very different from UHF because it is a mock biopic, musical biopic, right? Yeah. Like Walk Hard The Dewey Cox story. Yeah. It's like that. And they're kind of doing the same sort of thing. It is not as farcical as Dewey Cox's. Okay. But it is weirder somehow. And those two words are different to me. I I did like it, but I don't know. I would give it like I don't know if I can give it like an eight or a nine or a ten, right? Like I feel like I'm in that like six and a half range. The stuff that was funny was really funny. But there was a lot of. Donald, get out of the shot.

unknown 12:29

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

What is this? We've been away so long he thinks he's people.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

He's a co-host now, Dan.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

You haven't managed to fire him yet.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Exactly right. I was hoping he'd forgotten. There's a lot of, and other people find this really funny, and I don't. There's a lot of the scene from a famous movie that they all have. All of these have the same scenes, right? So let's talk about mild spoilers for weird, but from scene one, you know the scene is happening. He has an oppressive father that he doesn't get along with, that doesn't want him to go into music, right? Yeah. And later on they reconcile. And so they do the scene where the dad's like, I've been your fan all along and I love you, and you should go be yourself, right? Yeah. There's no jokes in it. It's just done by, you know, caricatures of the people from those other things. And so it's just kind of cringy on purpose. And the parody movies sometimes do this where they don't put jokes in. The joke is, hey, you know that scene? We're doing it too, but we'd haven't earned it. But you haven't earned it. So I don't get the satisfaction of it. The fact that you haven't earned it is the joke, but that's not a funny joke to me. And so there's a lot of those scenes.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

There are other scenes that are that are absolutely brilliant. For instance, Weird Al gets tired of people thinking he's a parody-only artist. So he writes an all-original song called Eat It. And then Michael Jackson makes a parody of that. That's delightful. And the genius of that, and then he gets so mad because now people are going to think that his, and this one really landed for me because periodically, when he's coming to this, he would look at the camera and say, This is a completely original uh song that I've come up with. And then, you know, they laid it on really thick. And then he got really mad that it's like, and now everyone will assume that Eat It was a parody of Michael Jackson's That's What I Do when really he parried me. Absolute brilliant move. And like you have a dozen brilliant moves like that through the thing that are just really cool and really interestingly well written. And then you have a lot of the sort of cringe stuff as well. And since I don't love the cringe stuff as much, I know it's a valid type of humor, but it didn't work for me there.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Yeah. That's interesting because it sounds like the typical weird owl album. Yeah. Right? It's gonna have two or three songs that are culture-defining hits that go multiple platinum, and then it's gonna have a lot of just strange stuff to fill out the time. Yep. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah. You know, you'll know from this line if you want to see the movie. He goes to South America to save Madonna from Pablo Escobar. Oh, okay. And gets very good with a machine gun. So that's an actual scene in the movie of Weird Owl's life is he needs to go to South America to save. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

That's good that that's there because UHF also had a Weird Owl with a machine gun in the jungle scene. There needs to be one in all.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, all Weird Owl movies. So thumbs up to Weird, but also you might know from this description whether you'll like it or not. I am glad I watched it even with the stuff that was not as funny to me. So even if you're like me, it's worth a watch. Cool. UHF is like high level and it's mostly jokes. And I like the jokes a little bit more. So how was Radcliffe as Weird Al? He was genius. It was a perfect casting. Radcliffe is a very good actor, and he didn't have to be Weird Al. What he had to be was classic underdog from one of these stories, but also just Weird Al, so he's Dweeby. And so he played Dweeby version of that just really well. That's cool. Yeah, no notes on Daniel Radcliffe, just absolutely nailed me.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

I read a thing just a couple of weeks ago that apparently Weird Al picked him specifically because they had been on the Graham Norton show together. Okay, and Daniel Radcliffe had sung the entire like donut song or something, or the airport song, or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Weird Al does all the vocal performances in this, not Daniel Radcliffe, but you can barely tell. So it's really well lip-synced. So these are supposed to be like him coming up with the songs and singing them live and all these things. And so the Weird Owl lyrics are not overproduced, they're not just from the album. And they made a really good choice on that. It is Weird Al. It sounds like Weird Al. It's not Daniel Radcliffe having to do Weird Owl impersonation, but it sounds like Weird Owl, if you were in the room with him, singing the song before it gets produced. And so they did a really good job with that. And apparently, Daniel Radcliffe was singing all the songs before they added on the vocal track. Like on set, he sang, but they always knew it was going to be replaced just so that the performance was good. So yeah, thumbs up on that and and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

So we should get to Yeah, yeah. I like how we had a conversation about how good we are at staying on topic and then we went off topic again.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah, we should do wait.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Wait, wait. Wait, we're gonna do something else now.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah. No, we're gonna do the thing.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Okay, we'll do the thing. Okay. These are villainous Toadie, uh, second in command.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

See, we've already done the thing where we never get to the thing, so now we have to do the thing and then make them think we're not gonna get to the thing, but then get to it.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

And get to the thing. All right, who are we doing first?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Who's first?

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Lieutenant. This is Lieutenant Baroness from G.I. Joe.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Baroness from Cobra, S tier. Absolutely solid.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah?

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Arguably my favorite second in command of all time. Probably started my deep love of brunettes that led me to Jennifer Connolly and to my wife. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

I am shockingly going to agree with you. Nice. So, having had a lot of second in commands who I have had to execute, Baroness never goes so far as to get executed. Like Destro, you gotta watch that guy. Right? Destro, oh boy. Effective. The big problem that Cobra Commander has is that he's useless. The biggest advantage he has is that Baroness is not useless. Yes. And so having a second in command who is still loyal, but then not trying to overrule you at every point. Never tried to mutiny, never tried to take over. I don't know what chip he put in her brain, but she should have taken over at any point, and she didn't. Could have. So you're starting on a high point here, Donald. Yeah. Because absolute S tier Minion right here. Like I would hire her today. Understandable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

We already be honorably mentored him, but where would you put Destro if we had him on the list?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

So Destro is also more effective than Cobra Crane, but not as effective as her. I worry about the betrayal factor. So I'm going to put him in a C. Okay. If I were going to place Destro because yes, Destro is decently threatening and scary. And he gets stuff done. He gets stuff done, but he will overthrow me the moment he has a chance. I'll agree. Let's put him in C. And not in the dramatically important, like all your lieutenants, you know, might try to overthrow you. That's just a thing they do. But there are some that are. Destro in particular.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

So totally fair.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Okay. Bowser Jr., you know, technically the son of the Koopa Army. Where do we put Bowser Jr.? Bowser Jr.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Bowser Jr. is a D. Okay. Why? Well, I'm going to let Dan give his where he wants to.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Dan has never played a game or seen a movie with Bowser Jr.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

If you're okay, then not do not qualify.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

I'll put him in do not qualify. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Bowser Jr. is frequently one of the first bosses you face. Like, I think he is like first or second in Super Mario Galaxy. He's one of the very early bosses. Yep. I feel like. He is always highly incompetent. He like barely is a speed bump for Mario. He is never one of the scariest villains. I've never felt like Koopa Jr. Plus, he is also taking the place of all the Koopa children who should be in all of them games, but for some reason, you don't have all the Koopa links anymore. You just have him. So he's incompetent. He is replacing a more interesting and diverse cast of Koopa links. And he's just kind of dopey. So yeah. Super fair. He doesn't fight you himself. He flies around and things and throws stuff at you. Like, what does he think he is? Like that guy in the cloud? That guy in the cloud is scarier.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

He's better than a or worse than a lackatoo.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

He's trying to be Dr. Robotnik.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Stupid little Dr. Robotnik wannabe. At least Robotnik gets his hands dirty. Not with Koopa Jr. So.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Okay. Okay. This one, you know, very important person. This is Count Rogan, the six-fingered man from Princess Bride. The six-fingered man. He's pretty good. He is pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah. Yeah. He captures Wesley. He captures Wesley. That is not easy to do. He then, you know, like he also, excellent death scene. Excellent death scene. Right. When when you have a lieutenant die cool, then you know what happens? Because we've seen the lieutenant die cool, what happens to his master? He doesn't have to die for the story to be satisfying. Yeah. The heroes didn't have to kill him. We had a really good death scene over here. Master got away. That's a pretty big point in his favor, even though, you know.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Yeah. Yeah. Also, he does the best in a sword fight against Inigo.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

He does pretty good in a sword fight.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

He does better than even Wesley did.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Had there not been a deep-seated vendetta, he would have won.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yeah. If he had just killed that kid when he stole the sword.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Right? Like he has that one.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

That's his weakness, is that he's too kind. He didn't kill the kid. The kids always grow up and get revenge.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

I gotta say too, I love Rogan's complete sociopathic, dispassionate demeanor in the pit of despair. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah. It's delightful. He's a man of science. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

So I'm gonna give him A.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Yeah, I'm thinking A. I don't know if I would put him into the reason Baroness gets an S is because many of Cobra's schemes were successful under her. And, you know, Rogan does get killed and his master loses. His master doesn't lose.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

So yeah, I can't put him higher than A. The level of success that Baroness is able to have under the structure of a, you know, of a documentary intended for children. Mm-hmm. Right? Where they're not going to show the best successes is even more of a testament to, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Makes sense. Well, speaking of, you know, some of these younger shows, Evil Lynn. Yeah. Second in command to Skeletor.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Evil Lynn. I have not seen the new movie. Let's say that first. So this is based purely on my distant memory of the cartoon. I forgot she existed.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Yeah, she's like my definition of a B tier lieutenant. Okay. I mean, she she sometimes steals the show. This is something the Baroness never does. And it's hard to steal the show from Skeletor because he is chewing that scenery, but she does the same. I mean, I think the outfit's dopey. Right? That goes for everyone in He-Man except Skeletor himself. Yeah. And you know, like she's not the standout henchman, right? And a whole cast of henchmen that have like monster jaws that like, you know, or you know, weird spinning body power tricks. She's just like a little evil dominatrix lady. And granted, you need evil dominatrix ladies, right? Yeah. You know, that fills out a key important part of your villainous repertoire. And of proper childhood development. Yes. Um, but B for me.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

I'm gonna go D. Okay. Because again, not memorable. Completely forgot she existed. When I watched the trailers for the movie, and Alison Bree was in that costume, I was like, who on earth is that? I have no idea. It's a very big deal that she's not memorable.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

But yeah. But if you remember her, I do remember her. So there you go.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Okay, there you go. Our first of the Lord of the Ring villains, the Witch King of Angmar. Witch King of Angmar.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Witch King of Angmar. I love the Witch King. I want to put him in A because he's really cool. He's so cool. But I'm not gonna put him any higher because he doesn't really have dialogue. He doesn't really have a personality. He's a very visually awesome force of nature.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

So I was gonna put him in B. And you might be able to argue me up, because you know what? I'm gonna move Evil Inn down to C, and I'm gonna put him in B. Okay. There we go. That looks better to me. Okay. Because he's just like, is he that effective even? Like, I suppose he stabs Frodo.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

But then he stabs Frodo, he shatters Gandalf's staff, which is pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Is that in the is that in the books?

SPEAKER_03 25:56

I don't know. That's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

I feel like that's in the movies. Yeah, but I'm counting movie continuity. But anyone that like Mary gets a kill assist on is not scary.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

I'm sorry. No, because that is Eowyn being awesome rather than Witch King being not awesome.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Eowyn is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

At least how I frame it in my head. Yeah, I mean, you make a very good point, though, that he doesn't ever succeed at anything he sets out to do.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

And I mean, he spends the whole time just chasing people around and not catching them, except that once he did catch, but then Aragorn scared him off with a torch. He did throw a torch in his face. Okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

I want to drop him. I'm gonna put him all the way down and see. Okay. Because the more I think about this, he's basically the Boba Fett of Lord of the Rings, right? He looks incredible and then he doesn't do anything, and then he gets taken down by a super weak character.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

I'm gonna leave him in B because uh unlike Boba Fett, he actually gets a stab on Frodo. Granted, Frodo is a hobbit. Not let's just point out. Yeah, like stabbing one of the hobbits shouldn't be that hard. But then the aura is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

Yeah. So and to give him his credits, he also does lead the entire army. He is a tactical, I wouldn't say genius, but he is a tactician.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

I disagree. I don't think he's leading any armies. I think he's just flying around looking for Frodo the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

All right. I said my piece. Yeah. Okay. All right. The most classic one could argue. Yes. Igor.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Igor, any specific Igor or that Igor from Young Frankenstein. I use young Frankenstein to be my favorite. Yes. Technically. Yeah. It is. I want one. Okay. Like, loyal. Mm-hmm. Right? Pretty capable. I mean, he does get the wrong brain, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Yeah. Yeah. Does get Abby Normal's brain. Yeah. But but he's so cool. Like, I feel like of every second in command you have on here, more so even than Baroness, Igor's gonna be loyal to me.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Probably.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

He's gonna do everything I ask him.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

He's gonna screw up sometimes. Yeah. But he is a screw up. You can't put him in S because he he's he's just gonna screw up a little too often. Yeah. And whatnot. I think I have to put him in B. In B? I'm going A. I have to put him in B. The screw-ups are funny, but like I can't in good conscience put him above the Witch King. They're there for different reasons. Yeah. Right? Witch King is forced to be loyal. You know, he's not really a character. I can't, I can't in good conscience do that.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

See, based on the image of Igor from Young Frankenstein alone, I have to put him in A. I know he's got my back through thick and thin. And then he might sew it onto somebody. Yeah. I mean, he's gonna screw up sometimes, but he's gonna help out, and he's a nice guy.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Okay. Alright. The second of our characters from Lord of the Rings, Saruman. Saruman. Where are you gonna put Saruman?

SPEAKER_03 29:19

I don't know. Is he another S? Saruman, like he's he is super powerful, super effective. Super effective at what he does. Yeah. He has the incredible fall from grace arc. We don't really see him as a good guy on stage.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

You were saying he doesn't belong on this list.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Yeah, when I first saw the list, that I don't even think he belongs because I think of him as his own villain rather than as a Sauron Toadie. Though he is, I think ultimately a Sauron Toadie.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Well, I almost put Sauron on the list because if we really want to get technical, Sauron is also a Toadie. But not in the Lord of the Rings movies. And not in the movies, which is why we chose one Volk.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

He's incredibly good at what he does.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

He creates the Urukai, he creates an enormous army of them.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

What's it take to bring him down? The Ents and Multiple Hobbits, and then eventually Gandalf himself. Yeah. Right? Like, and in the books, he even gets away. But then, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Yeah, he ends up marshaling two armies because he has all the Dunlandings working for him. And frankly, as much as I think it was a good decision not to include it in the movies, the Scouring of the Shire is one of my favorite parts because it shows the Hobbits using everything they learned on the quest to come home and be awesome. And he's great there too. You know, he's fallen from grace already, and then he falls even further and becomes this kind of petty bully sharky guy. Yep. I love him so much. I gotta put him in S.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

S tier. That's I want one.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

All right. The titular, the whole reason this list was basically made Starscream.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Starscream. Oh, Starscream. I love you so much. F.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Yeah. You're such a lovable F. Absolutely an F. Even as a kid, I was like, this guy's so annoying. His voice is obnoxious to listen to. He constantly whines and screws up.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

He's got all the worst attributes on here. He's a screw-up like uh like Igor, more so of a screw-up. No loyalty. No loyalty. Whatsoever. Anyone on here, he is less effective than Koopa Jr. At least he puts up a fight, and maybe there are kids who lose to Coopa Jr. and things. Starstream's never done anything successful. Oh, you're so lovely. His voice, his voice. His voice is grading. Puts him in F all by itself. Such a great guy to go in F.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Goodbye. Yeah. All right. Now, Brandon, you have seen Avatar of the Last Airbender. Yes, yes, I have seen, but this character wasn't in the movie. Well, you know, you'll just have to take your best guess. Princess Azula.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Where do you uh she's not in the movie, is she?

SPEAKER_02 32:04

I don't think she is. I think it's a kid in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

So she's you know, she's not canonical. No, no, no, she's but she's in the cartoons that were based on the movie. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

At the very end of the movie, you do see her stand up and bow at the guy and say, I'm gonna go after Zuko. That's not a lot to go on, though. True. In the cartoon.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Yes. Based on the famous movie.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

An endlessly capable, sociopathic, lunatic, murderer, my favorite type of character. Sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Right up your alley.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Yeah. Azula is crazy. She is blind to her own faults, but in a way that makes her extremely competent. She wins several times. Does she beat Aung? Aung?

SPEAKER_02 32:51

From the movie Avatar the Last Airbender. So much so that she basically gets the whole season finale of season two to herself with how good she beats them. Isn't she the first time we ever see lightning bending?

SPEAKER_03 33:05

No, but she shows how much more capable she is. Yeah. I'm gonna put her in A. Okay. Because ultimately I would never want her as my second in command were I an E which of course I'm not an evil overlord.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Yeah, I mean, that's me.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

But very, very good at what she does.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

I'm putting in do not qualify.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

What crazy. All right. The Winter Soldier from the Marvel series.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

Who on earth is the Winter Soldier a lieutenant for? So he doesn't lead anybody.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Yes, he does. The whole movie for the. He does not qualify. Move on.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

Does not qualify. I disagree. Well, give us your dumb justification.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

I will be very quick about it. The whole thing is he is currently, when you first meet the winter soldier, he is leading basically all of the Hydra forces. No, he's brainwashed for doing it, but he is. He's not leading anybody.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

He's just trying to kill. He is a lieutenant.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

The most capable of the Hydra soldiers who happens to be working on the same target that they are. I have to do that. He doesn't qualify. You should be ashamed of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

I think he's like a yeah. I don't think he's a lieutenant. I think he's uh he's the middle minion. He's the like he is a boba fett. But a very effective Boba Fett. He's a he's a hired gun, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

All right. We can move along. Ridley. Have either of you played Metroid? I've played Metroid. Okay. Not enough to know who this is. Ridley is the big spooky dragon that chases Samus all over the place and is technically the second in command to Mother Brain. We can DQ this one if we need to.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

It does not qualify for me. Yeah, I've played Metroid Prime, original Metroid, Super Metroid. Is he in any of those?

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yes, Super Metroid when he breaks in at the very beginning of the game. He's the one that steals the little Metroid. Yes. Okay. Do not remember. Fair enough. Sorry. No, it's all good. Okay. We're good. We'll recover. Kevka. I know you both know Kevka.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Kevka.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Kevka.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

S tier. Really? Oh, I love Kevka. He is my favorite Final Fantasy villain. I love him very much. I love his style. I love his look. I love how crazy he is. Yeah, he's right up there. The company he's in, the Baroness and Saruman, Kefka is one that I consider to be a full-blown supervillain on their own, right? Who just happens to work with another full-blown supervillain. Yeah. Totally qualifies for S tier.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

How many people on here? And hint hint, it's only one other, have blown up a planet. Right?

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Kefka essentially blows up a planet. A good point. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah. I'll go S tier. I'm persuaded Kefka is awesome. Better than that little word I won't say, Sephiroth. I'm joking, Sephiroth is actually pretty menacing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Sephiroth is cool, but put him in a fight. Kefka wins. All right. We'll speed through the last few ish. Harley Quinn. Harley Quinn. Quintessential.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah, Harley Quinn's uh a B for me. Okay. Maybe see, here's Harley Quinn's problem. Okay. She spends half her time as a hero. Yeah. This is really a bad look for us, right? Right. Like when I hire somebody to be my lieutenant, I do not want to find out that their second job involves kissing Batman. Right.

unknown 36:34

Right?

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Or Poison Ivy.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Or Poison Ivy. Take your pick. Sometimes Robin. Yeah. Like, you know, Robin gets sloppy thirds all the time. Like, I do not want to find out that she's leading a team of heroes to save the world. Yeah, but she's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

I did a lot of work to get that world in peril. I'm going to put her in B as well because she is arguably redeemed into a hero. She's an incredible, wonderful, phenomenal character. She's an amazing character. She's S tier as a character, but as a Toady, she is never as interesting as a Toady as she is when she is her own person, whether villain or hero. So as a Toady, I have to put her in B.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

She's a much better anti-hero than she is, either a villain or a hero.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

And so, yeah, B, she could flirt with A, depends on if it's interested.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Fair enough. Mystique is often considered to be the second in command to Magneto. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

She's very good.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

She's very effective. She does flirt with being a hero, though. Yeah. She's a hero sometimes. I don't like that. Especially young Mystique.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah. Starting off as a hero who turns bad in Days of Future Past or whichever one it was. But even in the comics. That's a nice fall from Grace, and I am on record as loving that. A tier for me. A tier. Mystique. Yeah, I gotta go A tier.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

Both representations in live action have been incredible. She's wonderful in all the animated series that I've seen. She's wonderful in the comics. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Alrighty. The last, of course, Darth Vader.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Darth Vader.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

So the big question is gonna be, Dan, how many points do we deduct for being, I think, the only one on this board who actually killed the person who employed him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

I mean, he gets full-blown redemption arc at the end. Yes, he does.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

And I mean, he's my buddy Palpatine. Like, I got a phone call after that happened. You will not believe how much I had to listen to him complain. Somehow, Palpatine called you. Yes. You do not know how, like he understood. Let's get it clear. Okay. The apprentice defeats the master. He thought it would be like 12 apprentices later when he wanted to retire.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

And then this happens. But let's point out, it blew up a planet.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

Mm-hmm. Like blew up an entire planet.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

None of these chuckleheads blown up any planets. Captured Princess Leia.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Yeah. I mean, he's cut off Luke's hand, killed Obi-Wan. He's good at what he does. Yeah. But I do think he has to lose points for being redeemed into a good enough person to become a force angel.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yeah, the stupid force angel thing.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

And then kill his boss.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

We've been talking the whole time about, you know, which one is going to betray you. He's the one that did.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

He picked the right moment. Starscream never did.

SPEAKER_03 39:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Right? It was a good moment for a betrayal. He just should have betrayed him and become the Dark Lord himself. I don't know what he was thinking.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

So I don't think Starscream thinks is the thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

No, no, I'm saying Darth Vaya.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Right. Well, yeah, and that's the thing. He betrayed him. And if he had betrayed him and taken over, that's just Sith 101. That's what he's supposed to do. Yeah, then we have to ask Terry. Instead, he turned good and he let his son live. And let's see. So is it A or B shambles? Or is it even down lower?

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Given.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

I'm not going to let one bad decision made under duress that had some pretty big consequences. I mean, like I told you, a long time.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

It's just one bad decision, but it is a, you know, A tier for me. Incredibly powerful bad decision. Scroll up so I can see what I've got in B and C here.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I mean, you know, he also was a good guy for several years, just to say.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Nah, he never was.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

No. No.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Nice try.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

He wasn't even a good guy.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

I've seen the documentary.

unknown 40:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

He killed sand people early on. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Yeah. I am not a fan of the Clone Wars era stuff. And so Anakin Heroic does nothing for me. I'm putting him into B with Harley Quinn. People who are more interesting on their own than they are as a second in command. You know, as soon as the Emperor comes on stage, Darth Vader just shuts up and stands in the background and kind of loses his aura.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Yep. All right. So we're going to have to rank our colleagues next, just so you know. There is a third tier of this.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

Have we not done a supervillains one?

SPEAKER_01 41:11

We have not. No, we like Matt and I covered minions, and now we've got lieutenants. We're going to have to rank my peers. Your peers. You said you're not, you know. Oh, wait. You missed one. I said I'm not. Donald, where is Donald?

SPEAKER_02 41:24

You know, I thought about including myself on this list. Donald, are you a lieutenant, Toadie? No, no, you're just a Toad. You'd be on the previous list, wouldn't you? Minion. Yeah. Does co-host not put me at least lieutenant? I'm I'm down with Toadie co-host. I think of you as that little goblin guy in Thundercats.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Oh. Oh, mascot. Evil mascot.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Yeah, you're our evil mascot minion. Okay. You're our salacious crumb.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Yeah. You're our, you know those two guys that hang out with Hades? I'm Panic. Oh, Yame. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Yeah, you'd not on this list, but you'd be on that list. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Sweet. We should do that list too. You know who my evil lieutenant is? It's Ben.