Microsoft Innovation Podcast

Learn It or Lose It: Navigating Uncertain Times in the Age of AI

• Episode 684

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The technological landscape is shifting beneath our feet, and those who fail to adapt risk being left behind. This stark reality forms the backbone of our latest episode, where we explore the concept that "AI is coming for the unmotivated" - perhaps the most crucial wake-up call of our professional generation.

TAKEAWAYS
• Recent experiences at ColorCloud event in Hamburg and during Spain's massive power outage
• Chris announces his new role at Cloud Lighthouse and ANS
• Microsoft Build conference schedule reveals heavy emphasis on AI with minimal business apps content
• The rise of "digital workforce" as a concept at major tech companies
• "AI is coming for the unmotivated" - why continuous learning is crucial for survival
• How an entire app was built using only AI prompts during a recent prompt-a-thon
• The concept of "information communism" illustrated through a real-world translation service example
• How professionals resist technological change rather than adapting their business models
• The need for "tragic imagination" to honestly confront the challenges ahead
• Why mundane, repetitive jobs will be the first to be replaced by digital workers

Don't hesitate to share your perspective with us. Stay connected for more innovative ideas and strategies to enhance your software estate. Until next time, keep pushing the boundaries and creating value.

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Thanks for listening 🚀 - Mark Smith

Mark Smith:

Welcome to the Ecosystem Show. We're thrilled to have you with us here. We challenge traditional mindsets and explore innovative approaches to maximizing the value of your software estate. We don't expect you to agree with everything. Challenge us, share your thoughts and let's grow together. Now let's dive in it's showtime.

Chris Huntingford:

What's up everyone? Yeah, it's been a bit of a wild couple of weeks actually, but a couple of us have just gotten back from Hamburg amongst the crazy things that went down there. So we had the ColorCloud event, which was freaking awesome. So I'd like to give a shout out to Matt and his team because, in my opinion, they smashed it right, like I think this is going to be one of the three big conferences or the three different conferences you're going to want to do next year, right, I think? I think they absolutely killed it. And then, yeah, you know, color cloud. Then also experiencing, uh, the sophistication of german riots, which was weird I don't know how else to explain this. Man like sitting in a coffee shop and it's like, okay, a bunch of people going shopping, and then we'll have a casual riot and then go back to shopping. It's just odd, anyway, a bunch of armed guards and stuff. So it's been a pretty wild week.

Andrew Welch:

I guess how are you guys when this event that he's describing occurs? Obviously, I had left, but it reminds me. Hearing him talk about this reminds me. You know, for those of you who are trying to time this, we're recording less than two days after the massive power outage in Spain, portugal, andorra and southern France right? So for those of you who were not up on the news on this and Southern France, right? So for those of you who were not up on the news on this, 100% of the power went out in these regions, right? So I had family and friends from outside around the world texting me are you affected? And I'm like dude, 100% of the people here are affected. Nobody is unaffected by this.

Andrew Welch:

There is no power, and this went on from probably around 1230 in the afternoon to I think we got our power back around maybe eight, 30 or nine o'clock at night in our neighborhood in Valencia.

Andrew Welch:

And but one of the things that really amused me about this now, first of all, I should say that in a way, it was scary, because you know, we didn't, we, we barely had.

Andrew Welch:

You had to kind of walk around and try to find a good cell signal and you could maybe get some news. I was pretty much living off of texts from Donna Sarkar, far, far away from me, telling me what was happening in the country that I live in. But later I read the New York Times and the New York Times talked about there was chaos and there were long lines at the ATMs and it was just madness. And my experience of this is that unless the restaurant had a gas stove right and drinking agua de valencia and aperol spritz and wine and on and on and haggling with one another because most people didn't have enough euros in their wallet, we paid our bill mostly with euros and then we offered we can pay the rest in dollars, pounds, romanian lay or swedish kroner, and they were totally cool with this right. So my experience here is that the at least the Spanish people, and at least in Valencia are the coolest weatherers of catastrophic power outages in the world. We just all went drinking and it was a great day.

Chris Huntingford:

That's hilarious.

Andrew Welch:

Yeah.

Ana Welch:

Because it was just a day.

Andrew Welch:

Yeah, it was just like. The same thing that would have been happening is going to happen, except for the food will be cold instead of hot.

Ana Welch:

But if it was two days or three days, nobody's got food in their home, including ourselves. Nobody has like any sort of cash.

Andrew Welch:

It's like this experience has turned me into a bit of a hoarder, though, like I spent all of my euros and then yesterday I went to the ATM and, instead of taking 100 euro out to replenish my wallet, I took 200 euro out, replenished my wallet and stuck 100 euro in my suitcase just in case and I'll do this every month for the next several months, just in case.

Mark Smith:

Yeah, and you'll not have an experience for another five years like this now right, exactly, exactly, guys.

Chris Huntingford:

I just have to tell you this in south africa, this power outage we call it load shedding, right, yeah, and they literally, they literally, they literally go without power for like days and days, and days at a time. Wow, everyone's got jenny's. So, andrew, my, my advice to you, bro, get a generator, man, and just like, get one of those portable ones and a can of gas and run around with it on your back and then you can just like fire up your laptop with can I?

Mark Smith:

please have.

Andrew Welch:

Can I also please have a like, a like, a blow torch attached to this, just just in case? Oh, flamethrowers, yeah, just in case of flame.

Chris Huntingford:

Yeah, zombies okay yeah, yeah, dude, it makes total sense to me. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Mark Smith:

But how does such a large region go out or lose power, like what three or four countries affected?

Andrew Welch:

So I haven't read the news today, right Like I think that they're still researching this, but the theories that have been floated are that you know there was some sort of electric like fault in the European power grid. Another theory, of course I think that you know there was some sort of electric like fault in the European power grid. Another theory, of course I think that you can't. You have to at least investigate the possibility of of cyber attack, especially given the fact that Spain is, I believe, nato's lowest defense budget member. So you know, if, if I'm not, I don't want to. I don't want to pontificate about the politics of this, but I feel like if anyone were going to test NATO's resolve to defend members with low military budgets, a cyber attack on Spain might be something that they would consider. So I think that they have to consider that. Anna read a really interesting theory on this yesterday that Anna take, take it away. What did? What did you find?

Ana Welch:

yeah, so the? So the theory was, even though it was proclaimed as the cause from like this expert who's saying that, uh, spain has enhanced their, um, their green energy supply and farms and everything over the winter and after the floods and stuff, and on that day it was sunnier than before for this particular supply and the network accumulated so much energy that when it was pumped into the network it couldn't handle it. Like their contingency rules were simply not high enough, which caused the whole network to go into overload and which caused some of the knots to stop, which caused most of the knots to stop. And because all of the electrical grid is kind of connected, this is what happened. So, even though they immediately increased those limits, you know know, or got rid of the extra energy, the butterfly effect was about 24 hours.

Andrew Welch:

Basically, we needed a really big surge protector for the whole country and we, you know, like, like they just don't make them. They just don't make them that way, I guess.

Ana Welch:

But it's a theory, it makes sense. It comes with a lot of logical arguments and like technical details that I I I wouldn't know how to tell you, because it it it tells you exactly how these systems work and that it's much easier to actually stop them, pause them, then get them to, then get them to move faster, to include all of that energy that was produced yesterday. I guess, unless there are sufficient studies and the limits are set high enough, I'm imagining we'll have the same issue in like July, right, but of course everybody's studying this so that it doesn't happen.

Andrew Welch:

That's why I'm putting money in my suitcase.

Mark Smith:

It's crazy Correct. Anyway, what's why I'm putting money in my suitcase.

Andrew Welch:

It's crazy, correct Anyway.

Mark Smith:

What's been going on? So, since you've obviously been to Cloud Conference, you launched the Center for Trustworthy AI, the Braavos Forum. I heard that Chris has got a new job. Where are you working nowadays, chris?

Chris Huntingford:

So now it is official, I'm with Cloud Lighthouse and ANS, so I'm spending my time now, which is very cool. Awesome man. I get to do the fun things and then the other things. No, to be fair, it's been interesting, but I think what it gives me is a very interesting perspective on number one, the wider audience that we deal with at Cloud Lighthouse, because it is much wider and it is much more vast and it is much more deep, and then the kind of state of play in the UK from an MSP perspective.

Chris Huntingford:

So like what it is, that people are actually thinking and know being extremely close to the customers, which, uh, which I like right, like I've worked something out in the last sort of three years. I am very much about, like, being on the ground. I love being in front of customers and I love trying to figure stuff out and I think, like that's, it's quite, it's quite an interesting mix, you know, but yeah, it's been, it's been pretty awesome. So I'm very, very finally happy to have this official. I will tell you that now, cause it's been too long.

Ana Welch:

We are too, chris, especially me.

Andrew Welch:

You know Chris was. Chris was the first person outside. You know apart from from Anna that that I ever even discussed starting cloud lighthouse with. And then, you know, it all sort of went from there, because, chris, I talked with him and then later that day we were together. It was that evening we had gone out for drinks. We decided, let's, let's call Mark Smith. So we called Mark Smith and that's how, that's how this this all kind of took off.

Ana Welch:

But and then he went to bed.

Mark Smith:

And then I, and then he went to bed just and then I went, I went to bed, you had a nap, you had a naplet no, I had a nighttime nap I had an all-night nap.

Chris Huntingford:

A naplet, yes, it's when you, it's when you take some time to have a sweet little sleep. Wherever you are, you can be anywhere, dude, like on a bench, on a chair, in a bed, it doesn't matter, and you know that's a naplet, right? So you did that. It was very sweet.

Andrew Welch:

I had my naplet in my hotel room and it lasted all night. That's okay, dude, I'm a very responsible conference goer.

Chris Huntingford:

You are not a responsible conference goer, neither am I, so let's just be clear here.

Andrew Welch:

I mean to be fair. In Vegas at Power Platform Conference last year, I was an incredibly responsible conference goer. I was in bed almost every night by 10 o'clock. 11 o'clock I was up, I did the thing. I didn't drink too much and then the day after the conference I had a stroke on an airplane. So what I think, the lesson here, is that you know you only live once.

Chris Huntingford:

So I was going to say Mark and I were extremely responsible in Vegas, extremely responsible.

Mark Smith:

Amazingly so.

Chris Huntingford:

We were so responsible.

Mark Smith:

Have you had a chance to look at the schedule for Build?

Chris Huntingford:

No, but I have some insight into what is going on.

Mark Smith:

Tell us what. What do you know?

Chris Huntingford:

So I was chatting to Donna. I don't know. You see, I've got to be careful here. I don't actually know how much as MVPs we can share, probably nothing If it's so, so let's be very very clear. I don't know anything. No, I I'll tell you what like there is. So no, they have been releasing stuff, some stuff on the MVP teams, channels and things like that.

Mark Smith:

But I think actually I'm not going to say anything because of NDA, the skid went live today.

Chris Huntingford:

Oh no, no, I haven't seen that. No, no.

Andrew Welch:

I haven't seen that. Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen any of the publicly available information.

Mark Smith:

Everything's there. And what I noticed?

Chris Huntingford:

the glaringly obvious thing that I noticed- so are you going to call out the thing that you were talking about the other day?

Andrew Welch:

mark is going to answer his own question. So, mark, mark, let have you. What have you? Uh, do you want me to say it in the, in the kiwi voice, or?

Mark Smith:

just go for it.

Andrew Welch:

No, no, no no, no, what, what, uh, what have you seen about build? What are you thinking?

Mark Smith:

there was obviously a massive emphasis on ai. Yes, color me shocked, what, what and I think there's ai I only saw one session that covered anything relating to business apps.

Chris Huntingford:

Oh, really yeah.

Mark Smith:

So if you take Copilot Studio out of the mix, right, because that's you know, there was one Dataverse session. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure I saw nothing but crickets in that space. In fact, there wasn't even a category selector for anything that sits under BizApps that I could see. That's wild.

Ana Welch:

That is very interesting. That is very interesting. You know, I went to ColorCloud 2, which was my very first conference after a long time, and I went to sessions. I love going to sessions. Sessions are great and I recommend that anybody, when they go to a conference, just go to sessions. Even though you're a speaker and you're there with your buddies, sessions are very good.

Ana Welch:

You know, I learned something that I didn't know about how to you know, generate some content with AI and how AI has evolved. It was Copilot Studio. In this case, it was just going away from summarizing and drafting things and actually doing stuff right with your information. And whilst that was really, really interesting, what was interesting to me was just how easy it is to lose track of how many things are happening with AI. The speaker was presenting that. Somebody else in the audience were like, oh, and, by the way, there's this new tool that came out that actually judges how good your prompt is. That was, and it's on the app store, on the microsoft app store, and it was so interesting because the speaker were like, oh, okay, interesting, let's, let's have a look. And her prompt was actually very good, like 90% rated 90%. So clearly she had, she had experience.

Ana Welch:

But what I'm trying to say is that there are so many things going, going on right now and coming coming up that how do people even select what they want to learn next, or where to go or how not to how not to fall behind. And you know your hint with, by the way, there are no more these apps. Sessions that build means people stop it with you rewriting business rules into JavaScript and crap like that. Just look at what's important, you know. Start really learning what the world is about right now, because you will lose your job. Somebody will come and build those things properly after they've seen the sessions and build or like at conferences or whatever. And that doesn't mean that AI took your job. It means that you were not good enough to keep it. I'm sorry, I don't know how else to say.

Andrew Welch:

I agree, I totally agree, and there's a couple of things that I've seen in the last week, right, that totally support this thesis, and if you're a longtime listener, this is not the first time you've heard us talking about this. I feel like we could not have a larger megaphone to tell business apps folks that the world has moved on from what it is you do and you need to move on with it if you want to. You know, stay in this in this space. So, um, one thing that I saw last week was at the. The prompt-a-thon that chris and others hosted at color cloud on the thursday was the winning team built an entire app without actually doing any app development. They just and chris keep me honest on this if I'm wrong right, but they built an entire app using prompts. Right, with AI actually building the app. Right, which I think was. It's still very early days for that capability and for that technology, but I think it is certainly a sign of things to come.

Andrew Welch:

Also, last week I had a chat with a friend of mine who is the CEO of a Microsoft partner. It is a sizable Microsoft partner, not just one sitting in a single country. He's one of the, I think, the more forward-thinking leaders within the Microsoft space and within business apps in particular. The company that he leads is really very much associated with Dynamics and that's their historical legacy and he was telling me listen, it is time to move on Dynamics and business apps. The old world is dying and he is very, very proactively trying to move his company into this new world. So I just think that look at the build schedule, look at what Chris and company did at the prompt-a-thon last week, listen to my CEO friend and listen to the ecosystems podcast. We could not be telling you more clearly that, mark, can we get a? Can we get a? What's dead? What's deed?

Mark Smith:

Oh, I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to say it, right, as I know I don't want to say it, but here's the thing. Here's something that and I'm pleased, anna, you indexed heavily on this is that I look at it like this AI is not coming for your job, but capitalists is Right. A capitalist is coming for your job, right, and they're going to use technology to enable it. Now, one of the sessions BRK148 on the build schedule is building the digital workforce. Right, if you don't know what a digital workforce is, google, it, it's not you, because you'll see, a digital workforce doesn't breathe oxygen and it doesn't have blood pumping through its veins. It's digital and microsoft, I believe in the next six months, you're going to hear this phrase and this is why I look for it on build, and there it was digital workforce. You're going to see a massive index on this phrase and it be used more and more. I researched today on IBM's website. They're talking about digital workforces. Google are talking about digital workforces.

Andrew Welch:

Are you sure IBM didn't call it the Watson workforce?

Mark Smith:

No, that is digital workforce right, and so what's becoming very clear is that I think the big tech companies and maybe not going to shy away from going. It's going after jobs like never before and one of the stories I've heard behind it there's a lot of smart people and businesses that leave because they get sick of and this actually came out of the IBM report that I read they get sick of the drudge work that they do and non-innovative work, and so the whole idea is that if you're going to have a digital worker take over the drudge work you can, you're more likely to keep these employees you know, as in that are, you know, higher value to the organization. Now, the second thing that I came across today was a post that Meg shared on LinkedIn from a lady called Senad Bovell. She's the way founder, founder, futurist and strategist, a foresight advisor, new york based, but she had this carousel and the header was ai is coming for the unmotivated oh, beautiful, and I'm like yes, gold right.

Mark Smith:

That is gold right. That is when I read it, it just kind of so. Resonated with me strongly is that people are taking AI as like I'm not really into it or I've done a few prompts, but I tell you like I've been indexing heavily on the O3 model from ChatGBbt of late and honestly and the reason I got onto it is because a number of people saying, are we getting to super intelligence now? Because in front of you, it will go off, it'll go and write python scripts, it'll go and access resources, it'll develop stuff, just to come back and get your answer. I've had a, a single prompt that I've created that has run for over 30 minutes before it gave me the answers and the answers were just mount your face off.

Mark Smith:

Detailed, referenceable, oh my gosh like. And the thing is is that I think there's so many people probably haven't even looked at the o3 model, not doing it, not drilling into the, its capabilities and what it can do to really enhance I. I feel like in the last two weeks I have been probably three to four times more efficient and productive than what I can do because of using these really advanced features now in AI models and Satya had this quote that he I heard that it came from he was presenting in Italy. That says you cannot get fit by watching somebody else work out in the gym and I think it's so applies to AI.

Chris Huntingford:

I've got to bail, so that is a good point. I'm going to put something on LinkedIn about that, but AI is coming for the unmotivated, so, thank you, I'm steaming that, all right. Cheers guys, I'll see you later.

Andrew Welch:

Chris has a call. We can finish up here. See you, chris, later.

Ana Welch:

So I just want to say just one thing with regards to that. I think that's totally true. That's totally true. And not drilling into these capabilities and it doesn't necessarily need to be, you know, in the GPT model right now. It can be whatever you want, right. It can be around how AI works and it can be around sustainability in AI, and it can be like programming I don't know with the GitHub co-pilot, or it can be anything you want.

Ana Welch:

There are many, many, many options, right? But if you do not do it, then you have two options. Either the digital worker will do you know the grunt work, so all of the copy pasting, it's just going to go away and it's just going to get better and better and better, right? Or you still have your job because you've been there for like 20 years and only you know a process. Or we always, we all knew, know like a process like that, right, held together by somebody who knows just that Excel, and you'll be allowed to hold on to it, and then you'll be given all of the other groundwork that the digital worker still hasn't done yet, but you'll have no team and it's going to be a pretty miserable experience, pretty much grounded in fear that you are going to lose your job. So just look at some stuff, is what I'm saying. I'm already in sunshine today, aren't I? No, the thing is.

Mark Smith:

I'm like fully on board, like this is wake up call. I feel time that people really need to double down on learning. Like another Satya quote have a learn-it-all mentality. You need to be learning this stuff. You need to, you know, while you can.

Andrew Welch:

I've been thinking about this a lot lately that we have we're facing it's funny how. It's funny how all joking aside about the you know me getting a hundred euro and putting it in my suitcase for the next time the power goes out right. All joking aside about that, one of the things that when Anna and I were reflecting on the power outage the other day, we were saying how, how, what uncertain times we live in, right?

Mark Smith:

Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Welch:

Certainly, certainly, the I grew up, I grew up in America Right, so I was was very fortunate to not have to live in terribly uncertain times. Anna was born in communist Romania, so had to live in very uncertain times earlier in her life, but certainly these are the most uncertain times of any of our adult lives, I would say, and one of the things that I am observing across so many contexts, right across work and AI, and what people need to learn, or what organizations need to become and what nations need to do, not even apart from ai what, what um europe needs to do in order to be self-sufficient and able to defend itself, what uh democrats in america need to do in order to, um, you know, reclaim uh part of the electorate that they've lost. Right Like across the world and in so many different contexts, I think that we are right now suffering from a lack of tragic imagination, from a lack of honesty with ourselves and with others about the enormity of the challenges and the tasks that we face right. So when, at least you know, for me and I think I speak for all of us when we're on this show, or when we're at a conference, or when we're in any sort of space, where we are advising technologists, advising our peers throughout the industry as to where they need to go in order to survive and thrive.

Andrew Welch:

When I'm advising clients and working with clients and really giving them some tough love on what you are doing is a road to failure, right? The world needs right now, I think, a combination of tragic imagination and ingenuity in order to survive and thrive. So we're not cheering for the demise of any particular industry or discipline or set of knowledge, or on and on and it goes. We are simply, in my opinion, trying to recognize and be forthright about the enormity of the challenges we face and the enormity of the effort required. You have to be motivated. Ai is coming for the unmotivated.

Ana Welch:

Yeah, about that. I have another story, if we've got time, we've got time. So we were in Dresov, you know, looking at an office and right in the city center. So we were just, you know, our co-working space was looking for an office and I had to translate some legal documents for some procedures that we have to do in the EU, procedures that we have to do in the EU. So I go to this translator's office and I go in and there's just one guy in the huge, massive office right in the center of town with like mahogany desks and like files neatly stored. And you know that sort of situation. I sit down and I give him, you know, my documents and I was like, oh, you're not very busy today. He's like I assume it's after Easter. He's like wrong, people just don't want to come to work anymore. And also most organizations we had, you know, an agreement with, they all want automatic translations and we just correct them, which means you know half the money and like double the work to make sure everything's right. And right now there's AI as well that can potentially do some of those corrections as well, probably. So what we're really dealing here is information communism.

Ana Welch:

I'm like okay, interesting, interesting concept. What do you mean? He's like well, all of the translations that we've done manually over the years, they're all recorded, right, so they're in some cloud somewhere. And then these new models are being trained on the work, on our work, right, that has been validated and peer reviewed. I think it would be correct that I get, you know, sorry, a percentage of that income, like if I was writing a book, because that's my, you know, that's my asset. And I'm like okay, okay, okay, in interesting situation and dilemma, I guess here are my papers, right, I had two, yeah, two like birth certificate, marriage certificate, nothing, rocket science. Can they be done, you know, by tonight? And he's like oh, it's already midday, you know, these are gonna have to be done manually. I'm like I know I could do them manually for you right now and you just peer review them if you, if you want to, or like put your stamp. But he's like no, no, no, it's gonna take until Friday because we need to take it to the notary for them to put their stamp on it. And I'm like okay, interesting.

Ana Welch:

So you have this situation where a person claims that AI and automatic translation is thinking their job and their business with their big, massive office in the center of town complaining by the fact that people don't come into work or, um, their biggest thing was that they were using google or the ai themselves to do the uh, the manual translations and how. That's very, very bad, but we're in information communism and things are taken away from me. So this is how some people view these things and, by the way, I did not have that papers until Friday. I had to send an email and threaten and stuff like that because we needed those documents back. Yeah, so this is where AI is coming from the unmotivated, the person who's thinking that somebody's being, that something is being taken away from them instead of, just like you know, selling those desks, putting some good laptops in and and, and you know, doing their job, but better, you know. So that's. That was just an example. You know that I, in real life.

Mark Smith:

It's a brilliant example, and the thing is that I think that would be repeated all over the world in so many offices and so many locations is that I think the days of doing unintelligent work are going to go away. So, in other words, if you don't really need to think about what you're doing and stuff, it's obviously a digital worker is going to take that role. Right, humans are going to be used for the stuff that the edge cases, that the digital worker can't do, right, right, and so I think that anybody that's in really mundane, repetitive-based jobs it's a no-brainer. Unless you're going to re-skill, you're not going to have a job.

Ana Welch:

If you're checking the invoices, that's no, don't do that yeah yeah awesome.

Mark Smith:

It's been good chatting with you guys. Um, uh, our time is up. Um, surprisingly, mr dorrington was going to join us, but he is obviously not now to get away from his meeting. Um, but, uh, hey, thanks everybody. Feel free to drop us a message if there's something you'd like us to talk about specifically on the show in the future thanks everyone, bye guys thanks for tuning into the ecosystem show.

Mark Smith:

We hope you found today's discussion insightful and thought provoking, and maybe you had a laugh or two. Remember your feedback and challenges. Help us all grow, so don't hesitate to share your perspective. Stay connected. Help us all grow, so don't hesitate to share your perspective. Stay connected with us for more innovative ideas and strategies to enhance your software estate. Until next time, keep pushing the boundaries and creating value. See you on the next episode.

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