david-nussbaum-a-prisoner-of-hope
Tue, 4/26 9:58AM • 23:11
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
elders, organisation, oxfam, world, people, chartered accountant, thought, finance, david, chartered accountants, uk, leaders, chief executive, former presidents, finance director, low carbon footprint, podcast, meetings, leading, acting director
00:00
I think if I had gone to the careers advisor at school when I was 16, and said, I'd like to do a couple of theology degrees trained as a chartered accountant and end up as a chief executive of the world's leading anti corruption organisation and then work with a group of former presidents. Then I said, Well, it's very nice, David that you know, you have this vivid imagination
00:22
Hello, and welcome to the difference makers podcast, brought to you by Chartered Accountants worldwide. I'm your host in the H O T Y. In this series, we're going to meet with leaders, many of whom are at the very peak of the influence and achievement, and some who are making the mark on the world. Despite their relative youth. They all share the view that the world can be a better place, and that they can and should do something about it. The rule Chartered Accountants. In this episode, we hear from my good friend David Newsbank, as well as being a chartered accountant. David has two degrees in theology, one in finance, and honorary doctorate. David Newsbank is the CEO of the elders Foundation, a worldwide association of global leaders. He has worked in the leadership capacity of Oxfam, the World Wide Fund for Nature, and transparency. We hope you're inspired by David's story.
01:43
I'm David Nussbaum. I'm currently the chief executive of the elders and also the senior independent director on the board of Drax Group plc.
02:02
I went to the local grammar school didn't enjoy it left at 16 and went to the local comprehensive sick Form College in Stoke on Trent, which I loved. And I did maths, chemistry and Religious Studies and general studies as A levels. Because I wasn't sure do I want to get into science? Do I want to do more arts things?
02:31
I took a gap year before I went to university and spent just over a year cleaning floors and toilets in the local Psychiatric Hospital, which was quite an experience. And then I yeah, I went to university and studied theology. And I enjoyed that very much. After that, I didn't have a choice. Do I want to do a PhD and become a, an academic or not? And I didn't. I thought well, what can I do you know, it's too late to do lots of useful things like being an engineer or an architect or a bricklayer or a plumber or something. But anybody can become an accountant, I thought. You don't have to have a particular degree. And I knew a bit about what it entailed that it wasn't just about the numbers, but it was about engaging with businesses and a wide range of organisations which appealed to me. I was interested and I'm always in have always been interested in these sorts of systemic issues, the sort of strategic questions, but I'm also bothered about how things actually work. Who designed it? Where did that idea come? Why is it like that? Those sorts of questions.
03:52
So I moved to venture capital and spent three years in venture capital. And from there I moved on into manufacturing industry and got a job with a big group repack about three months after I joined there, the company was bid for. But I was then able to join one of them bits of what they bought that in fact, they didn't want. In 1992 I became finance director and we floated in 93 on the stock market. But I had long had a sense at some point I want to do something different and something that I will feel is more worthwhile. But to be clear, I think having good quality packaging and companies that are run properly with decent finance systems. This is also worthwhile, you know, it's not as if only there's sort of more heroic things that we sometimes and
04:50
this is an appeal from Oxfam, to ask if you can give two pounds a month to help some of the world's poorest people.
04:58
I was happy carry on Spanish Short Film Group and I got a call from a friend who said he worked for Oxfam Oxfam, were looking for a new finance director. And I think you should apply. He said, Then I joined Oxfam as its finance director in 1997. You know, in a public company, as finance director, any major decision you are in on, I mean, you are going to be part of the top table discussion about any major decision. And indeed, that was partly why I liked being a finance director. And when I went to Oxfam, my assumption was that it would be the same. Okay, then became apparent to me that this was a complete shock to Oxfam, they thought the finance director, so sort of basically stick in his office and, you know, churn out the occasional financial statement and make sure finances are alright, but they didn't expect the finance director to be involved in anything else. Well, I just wouldn't be I mean, I would be there at the meetings and, you know, give my participate in the discussions.
06:07
So I think part of what I brought to Oxfam was integrating finances and numbers into the organization's work and hard. And that applied not only to the technical finance side, but also to numbers. And, and the importance of being rigorous with numbers. Let me just give you a quick example. At one point, I was acting director, the director was travelling this is the days before mobile phones. So he was basically on contactable. So I was the acting director. And there was a major humanitarian issue in South Sudan, we were shipping in large amounts of food for people who might otherwise be starving. And I remember the, the emergencies team were coming to me and we were discussing the details of the programme and the cost and so on. And they said, right, so the way we've done the calculations is two kilogrammes of grain per person per day. And that needs to be shipped in on trucks from lobby Tokyo. And we therefore got it then we got our planes to distribute it and so on, we've done this is how it all works. So I said, hang on, two kilogrammes per person per day. I said,no,that's right. And they sort of looked to me well, what do you know, you know, you're the finance insurer. If you didn't know about this, you, you do financial numbers. So I said, Well, you know, I understand this is your area. But after this meeting is over, could you please check that you're very sure that this is the right number? Because the reason was, I used to make my own bread when I was a student. And I thought two kilogrammes, like if you're making the flour, two kilogrammes, in no way that you're, you know, people who are even people who start are not going to eat two kilogrammes per person per day. So anyway, there is somebody very sheepish she came back a few hours later to say we have checked actually, sorry, it's half a kilogramme. All right. Okay. So that's one quarter of the lorries, one quarter of that, you know, etc.
08:20
I think the training of the academic training and the sort of on the job training that you get to become a chartered accountant, it was the basis for that, as well as my own sort of approach and an interests. You know, Oxfam was lobbying on the way International Tax happened. And again, my engaging with them and challenging them on the numbers they were coming up with and thinking through how does this really work like that, using financial and numerical skills in other parts of the organization's operations.
09:01
Anti Corruption efforts have stalled in most countries. That's according to the Corruption Perceptions Index that'd be released today by Transparency International.
09:11
So I joined Transparency International, which is the world's leading anti corruption NGO. It has national chapters in about 100 countries, each of them independent. And I was running the Secretariat based in Berlin, which was overseeing and supporting and leading the work. The power dynamics, of course, were that each of these individual entities was was their own national body. This was not like being at the head office of a PLC with in the end, you know, you can tell them what to do. In the end, we could not tell them what to do. The power dynamics were very different. But again, the importance of of understanding the numbers and the way things were working both financial The but also, you know, Ti is best known for the Corruption Perceptions Index, which which shows how corrupt different countries are perceived to be. So thinking through what what are these numbers telling us? What is the story? How can we communicate that was an important part of what I did there, as well as helping the transition from the founder and executive chairman, to maybe becoming the chief executive to us getting a new chair. And so there was both a sort of a human story, as well as a business finance and numbers story that after Transparency International, I moved to WWF, the environmental charity and became chief executive of the UK operation.
10:50
In respect of David, first and foremost, is absolutely deeply values driven. United, he's a humanist, humanitarian, in all respects, respectful of individuals, and the listener. My name is Ed Smith, former chairman of WWF, UK. And we transformed WWF, in a way from being one of a crowd to being pretty outstanding in his field. And he contributed not just within the UK context, but but very globally, he was highly respected in the international WWF community, including having a very, very low carbon footprint himself by doing things like going by train from London to Geneva, rather than flying because he deeply believed in, in in low carbon footprint. So instead of getting on a plane, he would spend many more hours going by trade to Zurich, which in those days, you know, it's still not that easy, but, but it certainly wasn't an easy journey. So puts his money where his mouth is.
12:01
Climate change is very real. And I think now the world or most of the world has registered that the challenge is huge, particularly on the energy system. But it then gets us into the food system and all kinds of very everyday aspects of our lives. We've made an awful lot of progress, particularly in the UK, the UK has done very well in bringing down its carbon emissions. However, the first cut is always the easiest thing to do. So it's going to getting increasingly difficult. And some of the changes we'll need to make will be increasingly challenging. But I think the good news is that companies most companies are now well onto this. And the reporting that's required, such as the tcfd reporting, helps both to tell you where you're at and, and also to force you to think about where you're going. At the same time, we should recognise that the UK is emissions, or maybe 1% of the world's emissions in terms of what we produce emissions we produce, and we've got to get emissions down in places like China and India, which are producing huge amounts of co2. And still, you know, looking at new coal fired power stations, for example. On the other hand, we have to have the humility to recognise Firstly, we got to where we are economically by burning all this stuff. And secondly, now we get down to make it and do the emissions and then we use it. So if you use look at consumption based emissions, how much does our consumption drive emission somewhere in the world? It's it's much higher. So the challenge on climate change, it seems to me is to think through how can we bring everybody with us as we make this change? And also, also take account of the consequence of this for some people, which will be very acute, and how can we make it have a sense of justice for everybody? As these changes happen? We know that industrial changes or system changes often have people who end up being the victims of those changes. So what are we offering then, to make this palatable future and I think that's another important part of the picture. This is Mary Robinson.
14:33
Honourable President, distinguished members of the Security Council, Mr. Secretary General, I'm honoured to address the Security Council again, as chair of the elders at this important open debate.
14:53
The elders is a small group of about a dozen global former global leaders states people, mainly former presidents of countries around the world. We've also had former UN Secretary General and some other prominent people. And the elders work on peace, justice and human rights. And essentially, what they're trying to do is to persuade current leaders to take more account of what ordinary people's experience is, and to lead with a greater sense of, of ethics and purpose. For the good of all,
15:38
this group of elders, they will support Cara, where there is here, foster agreement, where there is conflict, and inspire hope, where there is despair.
15:57
And my job is to run the lead the Secretariat, which support the work that the elders do. And also to suggest to them what that work should be. In the end, it's their decision what they do, but we, we do the work of creating the strategy, and then delivering on it. And what the elders can do ranges from other one end, you know, writing a letter to somebody or making a phone call, or more publicly publishing, an op ed or an article or a blog or a podcast, to the more intensive end, which is going to have a physical meeting face to face where the current leader, and you know, we've had, you know, these are substantive meetings, say for an hour, and they are private. But, you know, sitting in those meetings with the President of China, or with the Pope, or President Macron, or whatever, you know, the these are moments when current leaders are talking with people to they would regard as their peers of some years ago, and so they will probably listen in a different way. Also, of course, we don't come bearing any threats. I mean, we can't invade your country, or send drones to bomb you or impose economic sanctions that are threatening anything. We're just coming in with experience and wisdom of this group of people who, who experienced what it's like to be in top office to offer their insights, wisdom, encouragement, and challenge to those currently leading in often very challenging circumstances.
17:39
I think if I had gone to the careers advisor at school when I was 16, and said, I'd like to do this, I'd like to do a couple of theology degrees trained as a chartered accountant. And then that was a chief executive of the world's leading anti corruption organisation and then worked with a group of former presidents on you know, have meetings with the UN Security Council. Then he said, Well, it's very nice, David, that, you know, you have this vivid imagination. Now, you know, how about becoming a computer programmer? Or sorry, I'm nothing against computer, we need computer programmers. What training is a chartered accountant did was to bring the combination of a rigorous discipline with a systemic understanding. So when you're looking at a business or an organisation, as an accountant, and indeed, as an auditor, as I mainly was training initially, you've got to look at the whole how does this all fit? How does this work? How does it connect? How does what's happening to here have an effect over there? How does what's happening outside the organisation impact on the organisation? But you've also got to apply those tools in a rigorous way. And look at the evidence and evaluate, what do we make of this? Does this evidence bear the weight that we want it to bear? What counter evidence might there be those skills of of thinking about the big picture, thinking about the connections and then applying rigour to the specifics these are skills which are hugely important across a wide range of organisations, businesses, sectors, industries, etc.
19:49
The kind of training Chartered Accountants get usually also involves important and significant interpersonal relationships, both within In the organisation, but also you are often having to engage with quite senior people, people considerably more senior than you in the organisations that you're you're working with, or looking at, whether that's an audit or looking at potential Acquisition or disposal or looking at improvement plans for a foreign organisation, whatever. And so, you, you learn about how to conduct yourself and how to communicate and how to listen how to influence how to ask appropriate questions. And again, those interpersonal skills are critical and fundamental to loads of jobs and very interesting and senior jobs around the world.
20:43
In traditional societies, it was the elders of the village, who are trusted to resolve conflict and provide wise guidance today. We live in a global village
21:04
one of the themes that the elders have is the importance of hope. There's a lovely story of Archbishop Tutu, who was one of the elders in fact, he was the first chair, he was on a panel with someone and he'd been talking very positively and so on. And then one of the other people turned to him and said, what your why, why are you such an internal optimist? And he said, Oh, no, he said, I'm not an optimist. I'm a prisoner of hope. And I think the elders hold on to that.
21:39
Thank you for listening to the difference makers podcast. The world need leaders with vision, capability and compassion. Some of those leaders will and do come from Chartered Accountants. Listen to other podcasts in the series of the Chartered Accountants worldwide website and wherever you find your podcast. If you liked this podcast, why don't take a moment to rate and review us on Apple podcast, Spotify, whatever platform you decide, it will really help us get the word out.
23:08
I think the elders
23:09
hold on to that