{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":4.019,"endTime":5.909,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":4.019,"endTime":5.909,"body":"Hydrophiles, the HR Wallingford"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":5.909,"endTime":10.949,"body":"podcast. I'm Sally Jackson, and"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":5.909,"endTime":10.949,"body":"today I'm joined by Mike Case to"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":10.949,"endTime":14.579,"body":"finish off our series on the"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":10.949,"endTime":14.579,"body":"future of energy. Mike's an"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":14.579,"endTime":18.929,"body":"expert in clean energy, and he"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":14.579,"endTime":18.929,"body":"looks at the technology and the"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":18.929,"endTime":22.109,"body":"markets in that area. And"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":18.929,"endTime":22.109,"body":"previously, we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":22.139,"endTime":26.219,"body":"subjects such as filling up the"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":22.139,"endTime":26.219,"body":"Sahara with solar panels,"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":26.519,"endTime":30.929,"body":"industrializing floating wind"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":26.519,"endTime":30.929,"body":"and the future of nuclear. And"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":30.929,"endTime":33.539,"body":"today, to finish our series,"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":30.929,"endTime":33.539,"body":"we're going to be talking about"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":33.539,"endTime":35.429,"body":"carbon capture and storage."},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":35.43,"endTime":36.21,"body":"Hi Mike"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":36.24,"endTime":36.84,"body":"Hi Sally"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":37.56,"endTime":40.05,"body":"So carbon capture"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":37.56,"endTime":40.05,"body":"and storage, we've heard a lot"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":40.05,"endTime":44.34,"body":"about it in the news. We hear a"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":40.05,"endTime":44.34,"body":"lot about it around the COP"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":44.34,"endTime":47.13,"body":"conferences, people talking"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":44.34,"endTime":47.13,"body":"about whether it's a solution,"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":47.52,"endTime":50.01,"body":"but actually it's not a very"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":47.52,"endTime":50.01,"body":"well understood process. So"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":50.01,"endTime":52.29,"body":"could you just outline what it"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":50.01,"endTime":52.29,"body":"is for us please?"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":52.53,"endTime":54.66,"body":"It kind of does what"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":52.53,"endTime":54.66,"body":"it says on the tin really. It's"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":54.69,"endTime":59.31,"body":"sometimes called CCS or CCUS,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":54.69,"endTime":59.31,"body":"which is carbon capture,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":59.31,"endTime":63.18,"body":"utilization and storage, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":59.31,"endTime":63.18,"body":"that's where you use the carbon"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":63.18,"endTime":67.71,"body":"dioxide you capture for another"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":63.18,"endTime":67.71,"body":"process inbetween that and"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":67.71,"endTime":70.71,"body":"storage like making gypsum or"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":67.71,"endTime":70.71,"body":"something like that. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":70.71,"endTime":76.71,"body":"generally, it's about capturing"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":70.71,"endTime":76.71,"body":"carbon from intensive industry,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":76.74,"endTime":81.15,"body":"or from energy power production."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":76.74,"endTime":81.15,"body":"Say, from a gas power plant,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":81.51,"endTime":86.4,"body":"you'd capture the carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":81.51,"endTime":86.4,"body":"coming off the stack, and then"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":86.43,"endTime":90.48,"body":"you'd either liquefy that or"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":86.43,"endTime":90.48,"body":"process it in some way, and then"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":90.48,"endTime":93.66,"body":"store it underground. So the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":90.48,"endTime":93.66,"body":"idea is, you store it in"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":93.9,"endTime":98.28,"body":"depleted gas wells offshore. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":93.9,"endTime":98.28,"body":"in the case of the UK, that"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":98.28,"endTime":102.15,"body":"would be off the northwest in"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":98.28,"endTime":102.15,"body":"Liverpool Bay Area and Liverpool"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":102.15,"endTime":106.47,"body":"Bay gas field, Morecambe Bay gas"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":102.15,"endTime":106.47,"body":"field, or off the North Sea, the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":106.47,"endTime":107.82,"body":"North Sea oil and gas fields."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":107.85,"endTime":110.28,"body":"So just to be clear, these are"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":107.85,"endTime":110.28,"body":"gas fields that are under the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":110.28,"endTime":113.25,"body":"sea and are now essentially"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":110.28,"endTime":113.25,"body":"empty,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":113.37,"endTime":115.95,"body":"Yeah, and so"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":113.37,"endTime":115.95,"body":"basically the idea is you refill"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":115.95,"endTime":119.55,"body":"them with carbon dioxide that"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":115.95,"endTime":119.55,"body":"you've captured from other"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":119.55,"endTime":120.24,"body":"processes."},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":120.48,"endTime":122.61,"body":"So that's how it"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":120.48,"endTime":122.61,"body":"interacts with water and water"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":122.61,"endTime":123.45,"body":"processes."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":123.63,"endTime":129.72,"body":"Yeah so the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":123.63,"endTime":129.72,"body":"interaction for us and the work"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":129.72,"endTime":133.56,"body":"we've done so for a number of"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":129.72,"endTime":133.56,"body":"different projects, and the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":133.56,"endTime":135.75,"body":"inquiries we're seeing coming"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":133.56,"endTime":135.75,"body":"through is about the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":135.75,"endTime":143.19,"body":"transportation, interestingly."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":135.75,"endTime":143.19,"body":"So where the CO2 is created, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":143.19,"endTime":146.19,"body":"where you have the problem,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":143.19,"endTime":146.19,"body":"isn't necessarily near where you"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":146.19,"endTime":151.44,"body":"can store the gas. So one of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":146.19,"endTime":151.44,"body":"projects we worked on was a gas"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":151.44,"endTime":155.82,"body":"power project down in South"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":151.44,"endTime":155.82,"body":"Wales, and we looked at how the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":155.82,"endTime":158.64,"body":"carbon was going to be captured,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":155.82,"endTime":158.64,"body":"and then how it was going to be"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":159.0,"endTime":162.81,"body":"processed and then transported."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":159.0,"endTime":162.81,"body":"So there's a number of places at"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":162.81,"endTime":165.54,"body":"the moment which have kind of"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":162.81,"endTime":165.54,"body":"opened up for injecting,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":165.57,"endTime":169.14,"body":"re-injecting back into old gas"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":165.57,"endTime":169.14,"body":"fields. So you've got a high net"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":169.14,"endTime":172.62,"body":"project, which is on the Dee"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":169.14,"endTime":172.62,"body":"Estuary in the northwest, you've"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":172.62,"endTime":176.16,"body":"got Viking Project, which is"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":172.62,"endTime":176.16,"body":"over on the Humber. And then in"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":176.16,"endTime":180.12,"body":"Norway, you've got the Northern"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":176.16,"endTime":180.12,"body":"Lights Project. So they're all"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":180.18,"endTime":183.51,"body":"taking gas in, if you like, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":180.18,"endTime":183.51,"body":"re-injecting gas back into these"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":183.51,"endTime":184.14,"body":"gas fields."},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":184.17,"endTime":185.79,"body":"So you talked"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":184.17,"endTime":185.79,"body":"about liquefying the carbon"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":185.79,"endTime":189.06,"body":"dioxide that obviously needs"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":185.79,"endTime":189.06,"body":"transporting to the site where"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":189.06,"endTime":193.92,"body":"it's going to be injected. What"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":189.06,"endTime":193.92,"body":"fuel is similar, what challenges"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":193.98,"endTime":196.89,"body":"does it present to be"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":193.98,"endTime":196.89,"body":"transporting liquefied carbon"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":196.89,"endTime":199.38,"body":"dioxide? What do we know about"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":196.89,"endTime":199.38,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":200.34,"endTime":203.16,"body":"So I guess there's a"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":200.34,"endTime":203.16,"body":"lot of similarity between"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":203.19,"endTime":207.51,"body":"transporting, you know, any"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":203.19,"endTime":207.51,"body":"liquid gasses. So in this case,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":207.75,"endTime":212.4,"body":"carbon dioxide is liquid under"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":207.75,"endTime":212.4,"body":"when it's pressurized. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":212.4,"endTime":216.12,"body":"typically, the medium pressures"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":212.4,"endTime":216.12,"body":"we're looking at for the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":216.12,"endTime":219.57,"body":"projects we've looked at so far"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":216.12,"endTime":219.57,"body":"are between minus 20, minus 30"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":219.6,"endTime":222.57,"body":"degrees C and it's pressurized,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":219.6,"endTime":222.57,"body":"so there's only certain number"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":222.57,"endTime":225.93,"body":"of vessels, actually specialist"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":222.57,"endTime":225.93,"body":"vessels, that can take it, and"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":225.93,"endTime":230.25,"body":"they're actually quite small"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":225.93,"endTime":230.25,"body":"compared to LNG vessels. We're"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":230.25,"endTime":235.74,"body":"typically looking at the vessel"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":230.25,"endTime":235.74,"body":"size for CO2 is around 7,500"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":235.74,"endTime":241.65,"body":"meters cubed, whereas for LNG,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":235.74,"endTime":241.65,"body":"you're looking at between 125 to"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":242.07,"endTime":248.7,"body":"up to 267,000 meters cubed. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":242.07,"endTime":248.7,"body":"more than 20 times the size."},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":248.82,"endTime":251.07,"body":"So what does that"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":248.82,"endTime":251.07,"body":"mean in terms of logistics? Does"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":251.07,"endTime":254.58,"body":"it limit where you can get to"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":251.07,"endTime":254.58,"body":"for your sites? Or do you just"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":254.58,"endTime":257.73,"body":"need more boats or vessels? Or"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":254.58,"endTime":257.73,"body":"how does that work?"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":257.73,"endTime":260.31,"body":"The problem with"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":257.73,"endTime":260.31,"body":"carbon capture and storage is"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":260.34,"endTime":264.06,"body":"you've got limited sites where"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":260.34,"endTime":264.06,"body":"you can inject, re-inject the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":264.06,"endTime":268.2,"body":"gas into the gas wells. And the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":264.06,"endTime":268.2,"body":"places where you're producing"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":268.2,"endTime":271.44,"body":"the carbon dioxide are not"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":268.2,"endTime":271.44,"body":"necessarily near those sites. So"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":271.71,"endTime":276.09,"body":"you can't necessarily pipe"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":271.71,"endTime":276.09,"body":"directly from where you are to"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":276.09,"endTime":279.69,"body":"the site of injection, the point"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":276.09,"endTime":279.69,"body":"of injection. And if that's the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":279.69,"endTime":284.22,"body":"case, then you've got to liquefy"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":279.69,"endTime":284.22,"body":"and transport the gas. So that's"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":284.22,"endTime":287.4,"body":"where we come in - looking at"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":284.22,"endTime":287.4,"body":"how  the logistics of that,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":287.4,"endTime":291.6,"body":"really, of how you get the gas"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":287.4,"endTime":291.6,"body":"from the from the point of"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":291.6,"endTime":295.53,"body":"production to the point of"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":291.6,"endTime":295.53,"body":"injection. And you know, in"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":295.53,"endTime":299.1,"body":"terms of shipping, that's what"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":295.53,"endTime":299.1,"body":"we're looking at. So shipping"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":299.1,"endTime":302.55,"body":"large quantities of CO2 around"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":299.1,"endTime":302.55,"body":"the country, or even"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":302.55,"endTime":305.07,"body":"internationally, because you can"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":302.55,"endTime":305.07,"body":"see how an international market"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":305.07,"endTime":308.37,"body":"might develop for moving this"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":305.07,"endTime":308.37,"body":"stuff around to places  which"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":308.37,"endTime":313.29,"body":"have got capacity. So you might"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":308.37,"endTime":313.29,"body":"have a hard to abate sector in"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":313.29,"endTime":319.53,"body":"one country, they want to store"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":313.29,"endTime":319.53,"body":"their CO2 somewhere, and they've"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":319.53,"endTime":322.23,"body":"got nowhere within country where"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":319.53,"endTime":322.23,"body":"they can do that. So they'll"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":322.23,"endTime":324.54,"body":"transport that to somewhere like"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":322.23,"endTime":324.54,"body":"Norway, or somewhere like the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":324.54,"endTime":329.79,"body":"UK, where we can re-inject it"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":324.54,"endTime":329.79,"body":"into our existing wells. So it's"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":329.79,"endTime":334.53,"body":"looking at the that logistics"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":329.79,"endTime":334.53,"body":"piece of the number of ships you"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":334.53,"endTime":339.24,"body":"might need a process, say, we"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":334.53,"endTime":339.24,"body":"had a gas fired power plant."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":339.57,"endTime":343.32,"body":"It's going to be continually, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":339.57,"endTime":343.32,"body":"not necessarily continually, but"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":343.32,"endTime":345.84,"body":"you'll have periods where it"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":343.32,"endTime":345.84,"body":"will be continually producing"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":345.84,"endTime":350.25,"body":"gas and how much storage you"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":345.84,"endTime":350.25,"body":"need, how many ships you need,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":350.49,"endTime":352.86,"body":"what the kind of the turnaround"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":350.49,"endTime":352.86,"body":"time is for each of the ships."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":352.86,"endTime":355.98,"body":"So it's looking at the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":352.86,"endTime":355.98,"body":"logistics, but then also looking"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":355.98,"endTime":359.73,"body":"at the engineering of the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":355.98,"endTime":359.73,"body":"jetties to take the ships and so"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":359.73,"endTime":363.21,"body":"on, and also the maneuvering of"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":359.73,"endTime":363.21,"body":"the of the ships around the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":363.21,"endTime":364.62,"body":"port, around the jetties."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":364.65,"endTime":366.93,"body":"That actually brings me quite"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":364.65,"endTime":366.93,"body":"neatly on to what I was going to"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":366.93,"endTime":370.47,"body":"ask you, which is, how much are"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":366.93,"endTime":370.47,"body":"ports going to need to adapt to"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":370.89,"endTime":375.27,"body":"to transport carbon dioxide,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":370.89,"endTime":375.27,"body":"rather than say, you know, LPG,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":375.27,"endTime":377.22,"body":"or whatever it is they're doing"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":375.27,"endTime":377.22,"body":"at the moment"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":378.0,"endTime":381.84,"body":"At the moment, it's a very small"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":378.0,"endTime":381.84,"body":"market, but it's growing. So the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":381.84,"endTime":385.44,"body":"truth is, we don't really know,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":381.84,"endTime":385.44,"body":"but we can see it's probably"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":385.44,"endTime":388.65,"body":"more likely to involve special"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":385.44,"endTime":388.65,"body":"jetties close to where the where"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":388.65,"endTime":391.62,"body":"the production is going to be."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":388.65,"endTime":391.62,"body":"So for the production of the CO2"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":392.04,"endTime":396.45,"body":"you might have a facility which"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":392.04,"endTime":396.45,"body":"captures and liquefies the gas,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":396.45,"endTime":399.84,"body":"and then you'll have a pipeline"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":396.45,"endTime":399.84,"body":"to a jetty, a specialized jetty,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":400.08,"endTime":405.03,"body":"which take the gas onto ship and"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":400.08,"endTime":405.03,"body":"take it away. So I think it"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":405.03,"endTime":408.9,"body":"depends. You might not see it at"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":405.03,"endTime":408.9,"body":"the larger ports, but it depends"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":408.9,"endTime":412.95,"body":"where the power stations are, or"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":408.9,"endTime":412.95,"body":"where the factories are that are"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":412.95,"endTime":414.12,"body":"producing the carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":414.33,"endTime":416.19,"body":"And this is all"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":414.33,"endTime":416.19,"body":"very hypothetical, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":416.46,"endTime":419.1,"body":"It's a long way away before"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":416.46,"endTime":419.1,"body":"we're going to see this. And it"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":419.43,"endTime":421.8,"body":"does, if I'm honest, listening"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":419.43,"endTime":421.8,"body":"to you sound expensive."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":422.01,"endTime":425.19,"body":"It is expensive. And,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":422.01,"endTime":425.19,"body":"well, it is actually already"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":425.19,"endTime":428.34,"body":"happening. So we've already seen"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":425.19,"endTime":428.34,"body":"some projects which are being"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":428.34,"endTime":431.67,"body":"developed now. It will be quite"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":428.34,"endTime":431.67,"body":"expensive. I mean, it's like"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":431.67,"endTime":436.47,"body":"anything as the market grows,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":431.67,"endTime":436.47,"body":"and it largely depends on the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":436.86,"endTime":440.67,"body":"carbon tax, I suppose, if you"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":436.86,"endTime":440.67,"body":"like, the cost of carbon. So as"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":440.67,"endTime":443.64,"body":"that increases, the cost of"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":440.67,"endTime":443.64,"body":"producing carbon for these hard"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":443.64,"endTime":448.98,"body":"to abate sectors becomes more"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":443.64,"endTime":448.98,"body":"cost effective to capture the"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":448.98,"endTime":451.71,"body":"carbon and transport it and"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":448.98,"endTime":451.71,"body":"store it."},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":452.25,"endTime":453.84,"body":"So it's the sort"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":452.25,"endTime":453.84,"body":"of thing we should be looking"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":453.84,"endTime":457.2,"body":"out for in the sort of next"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":453.84,"endTime":457.2,"body":"round of COP negotiations. It"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":457.2,"endTime":460.62,"body":"sounds like one to keep an eye"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":457.2,"endTime":460.62,"body":"on, as all these issues that"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":460.62,"endTime":463.68,"body":"we've been talking about in our"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":460.62,"endTime":463.68,"body":"energy futures podcasts have"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":463.68,"endTime":467.37,"body":"been. So Mike, thanks so much"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":463.68,"endTime":467.37,"body":"for explaining what's on the"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":467.37,"endTime":470.79,"body":"horizon for energy. Really"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":467.37,"endTime":470.79,"body":"appreciated, and maybe in a"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":470.79,"endTime":472.98,"body":"couple of years, we'll come back"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":470.79,"endTime":472.98,"body":"and revisit these topics and see"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":472.98,"endTime":474.18,"body":"where we moved on to."},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":474.66,"endTime":475.65,"body":"Thanks very much,"},{"speaker":"Mike Case","startTime":474.66,"endTime":475.65,"body":"Sally"},{"speaker":"Sally Jackson","startTime":479.7,"endTime":479.88,"body":"Thank you."}]}