Get Some Bad B*tches With Genevieve Manion

What do haunted linen, Victorian hair art, and the courage to blow up your entire life have in common? This episode, that's what.

Julia is joined by Genevieve Manion — amateur Victorian historian, actual witch, host of My Victorian Nightmare, and we have extremely strong opinions about where dead people's hair does and does not belong. Spoiler: not in your sweater. Not in your cardigan. A locket is fine. A wreath on the wall is pushing it. We move on.

What starts as a deep dive into all things Victorian gets gloriously derailed into one of the most honest conversations we've had on this show about midlife reinvention, losing your voice in a bad marriage, and what it actually looks like to crawl out the other side and build something beautiful from scratch.

Also covered: perimenopause at 3am, the mascara incident that still haunts us, why your ancestry is the only witchcraft tradition you actually need, Keanu Reeves' truly unfortunate British accent, and a pregnancy superpower that cannot be explained by science.

Plus bibliomancy, a firm position on not being dug up after death, and the single most important thing you can do for yourself in midlife that has nothing to do with skincare.

Get some bad b*tches. The Victorians would have wanted it that way.

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Transcript

Julia 0:00

Are you haunted by the thoughts that show up at 3 a.m.? Good. This is where we follow them. Where science meets ritual, humor meets reckoning, and aging and identity are viewed as evolution. And where we ask the only question that matters.

Opening Monologue

Julia 1:06

You see, I am a bit obsessed with the Victorian era. And my brother from Another Mother recommended a newish book called Victorian Psycho by Virginia Faito. And I am not okay. I mean, are any of us? I don't know. But I am the opposite of okay. You see, I was so consumed by this book that I started deliberately reading it slower toward the end just to delay the inevitable. And it kept me up way past my bedtime, which, if you know me, I'm in bed by like 9:30 p.m. This thing was keeping me up till like 11 p.m. And again, I did not want it to end. I regret nothing. So here's the pitch it's about a governess named Winifred Naughty, and yes, Naughty, absolutely intentional, I'm sure. Bless Virginia Faeda for that, who arrives at the supremely gloomy Enzor house to look after two children named Drusilla and Andrew for the deeply odious Pounds family. On paper, she's there to do French tutoring and needlework, you know, very Victorian era type of things. But in practice, she is a bloodthirsty psychopath, counting down the days until Christmas when she has some very special gifts planned for the household. I want you to think Jane Eyre, but if Jane Eyre had absolutely zero morals and a cleaver, that is to say, no one is safe. Not the family, not the staff, and especially not the children. Nobody. And look, in these dark, chaotic, eat the rich times we're living in, Winifred Noddy is the unhinged feminist anti-hero I did not know I needed. This book is about 190 pages. It is wickedly funny, and it's being adapted by A24 into a film. And honestly, I doubt they'll do it justice. So if Victorian era murder is your thing, read this book before it gets ruined by the movie. Which brings me perfectly to my guest today. Genevieve Mannion has a podcast called My Victorian Nightmare. And much like me, she is deeply, possibly pathologically, obsessed with the Victorian era, which is exactly how I found her show. I am so excited to have her here. But first, I believe someone has come through the speaker

Speaker Box

Julia 3:34

box.

Melissa 3:38

Hello, Hcraft. My name is Melissa, and I'm calling in regards to a previous listener and her love for linen. Mandy called in and talked about in her old age how she has become fond of all things soft and linen. And I also have grown very fond of linen, but I call mine my inherited dead person's linen. And I haunt the house in my dresses that I received from one of my mother's elderly friends that passed. So I also have become quite accustomed to the softer things in life as I get older. And every time I wear her dresses, I think about her, and it's my way of summoning her memory in her honor. So embrace the linen and embrace the softness.

Julia 4:33

Melissa, first of all, I conic, you're not just aging gracefully, you're aging hauntingly. While the rest of us are out there buying our linen fresh off the rack, like some kind of basic mortals, you have sourced yours from the dearly departed. And honestly, that's the most power move we've ever heard on this show. You're not just wearing a dress, you're wearing a vibe, a legacy, a whole entire ghost. Every time you float through a room in that linen, some ancestor energy is absolutely activated. Mandy started us on the linen journey, but Melissa, you have taken us somewhere we did not expect to go, and we are so glad we went there. So to everyone listening, whether your linen is store-bought or spiritually inherited, the message is clear. Soft fabric, honored memories, light haunting, this is what aging well actually looks like, people. Embrace the linen, embrace the softness, and apparently embrace the ghost. Melissa, thank you so much for leaving that message in the speaker box. I enjoyed it so much. My guest today is Genevieve Mannion, New York-based amateur Victorian historian, creator and host of My Victorian Nightmare, and a woman who clearly has no fear of the dark corners of the 19th century. Her podcast is exactly what it sounds like: immersive, atmospheric, and utterly obsessed with the true crime, hauntings, and cultural oddities of an era that was somehow simultaneously uptight and absolutely feral. And she covers it all with this incredible depth of empathy and grace for the actual humans who lived through it, which, if you know anything about Victorian life, is genuinely a lot to carry. She is also a witch, a real one. And I say that with full reverence because she is not even slightly exaggerating here, a significant reason I started my own practice. And I still cannot believe she said yes, truly. Although I will say, I manifested this and it worked. So let's get into it.

Interview

Julia 6:45

Hi Genevieve, thank you so much for coming on the show. Julia, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to have you. I'm such a fan of the show, and I've already talked about this previously, but and I will mention this many, many times through this episode that everyone should go and check out my Victoria Nightmare because I am obsessed, and we'll get more into that a little bit later. But before we do, we're gonna start off by me just asking you your name, your age, your pronouns, and what is keeping you up at night.

Genevieve 7:18

Heavens. Well, my name is Genevieve Mannion. What was the next one?

Julia 7:23

I know, right? I'm always ready to like drop out. Listen, I write them down and I'm reading, I wrote them and I can't even remember them. So fine. Your age and your pronouns.

Genevieve 7:35

I am 46. I just turned 46 last week. My pronouns are she, her, and what keeps me up at night? It's serious. It's perimenopause. That's what keeps me up at night. And I've been trying everything, everything from medications to meditation to like you name it, whatever it is. But I was up probably at three o'clock this morning and just doing everything I could to like like I try to play games in my head to make myself fall asleep. Like there's like the counting backwards from 100. There's uh there was a oh funny enough, lately telling myself, go to sleep. Go to sleep, Genevieve, over and over again. That's working. Of all the things that I do, it will still take an hour. I'm still gonna be up for an hour. But if I just repeat that, eventually I will fall asleep. But yeah, perimenopause is what's keeping me up at night for the most part.

Julia 8:32

I'm glad you found a solution. I feel like the mantra, the rip the repetition can always be helpful, whatever it is, even it's just go to sleep. Sure, why not? Yeah, that works.

Genevieve 8:41

Funny enough though, it's like I've tried other ones, or I've tried so many things, so many little like you know, counting sheets, you know, things like that, naming random things. That worked for a while. Just like like, you know, cat, chewing gum, lamppost, like just random, just like that worked for a while, but now go to sleep. It's kind of helping. I mean, I'm still gonna be up for an hour, but uh I will eventually go to sleep if I just keep that up.

Julia 9:10

I hope that is so hard. I I don't miss that at all. I'm kind of like past that, but the 3 a.m. is real. Three the 3 a.m. I'm awake and I'm gonna go run a marathon. That's my favorite, where I'm like, well, I guess I'll just get up and like clean the house or something because that's the kind of energy that I have at 3 a.m. It's like wow. Yeah. So Genevieve, where are you right now in the liminal space of aging and identity? And for context, it's like what feels like it's ending and what feels like it's beginning or even like emerging?

Genevieve 9:42

Great question. I would say caring about what other people think. I don't do that anymore. I've sort of moved into this new era of being very unabashedly me and enjoying it so very, very much. Like I was just talking to a friend yesterday. I remember there was a day in my 30s, and it was so traumatic that I still remember it, uh, where I forgot to put on mascara. And I noticed when I got to work, and I was humiliated. I was like, oh my God, I I gotta go to the store, I gotta go buy mascara. I look, I must must look terrible right now. And it was all I could think of the whole day. And now I went to the Brooklyn Botanical Garden this morning for a stroll, and I didn't even put on makeup. It didn't even occur to me to put on makeup. I just, I'm like, I'm just uh the only people or only you know, the only individuals I'm worried about are the new bluebells and the daffodils and the birds who have come back. That's it. You know, so that is definitely something I have noticed growing in intensity. That the the it's not even I can't even say the desire to not care what people think. I'm just not caring what people think. Yeah. And and I used to, I used to. And it's very empowering and and a really beautiful thing to see that not only me, I'm not the only one having this experience, all of my friends at the same time are too. So that's very, very exciting. Yeah, so that's that's kind of that's a bit of that, but also just the physical stuff of dealing with like yeah, like the not sleeping, the gaining weight, the you know, things that I don't like. I don't like not fitting into my awesome clothes. Again, I'm not so concerned about what other people are thinking of me, but it's just like, oh, I used to really like how I fit into my own clothes.

Julia 11:53

Yeah.

Genevieve 11:54

And that's not happening as easily as it as it used to. Yeah, so I mean, there's that aspect to it, but also just identity overall feels different now. I was I was very excited at the idea that I'm now closer to 50 than I am to 40. In as much as I guess just more the yeah, I don't care. I don't care anymore. All I care about is making me proud. Yeah. That's it. Yes. That is all I care about. I'm not here to compete with anyone, anyone but me. And I still feel good, I'm healthy, you know. I have, you know, apart from the random Perry Metapost stuff, I have all of this life, and I I can't wait to just live it now without without so much noise that I used to carry around. They used to follow me. So yeah, there's there's a little bit of you know the frustrations, but most of it is just the feeling so damn good to just lean into this new era of mine of not Karen anymore, and putting all of that care, all the care I would have been giving to others into me and my friendships and my work.

Julia 13:12

Yes.

Genevieve 13:12

Yeah, that's that's what I would say.

Julia 13:15

First of all, I love that for you. You not wearing mascara. First of all, you're gorgeous. So I cannot believe that you would even be so concerned about the mascara. I go to work and forget to brush my teeth. That's a problem.

Genevieve 13:27

I'm sure I've done that too.

Julia 13:29

Or deodorant. And I'm like, I'm like, oh yeah, did I? I did, and then I'm like, I gotta go get some deodorant, I'll be right back. Yeah, and I work with people like very closely. I touch people's bodies, and I'm like, you know, gotta take care of that. That's pretty, it's like a whole other different thing. Mascara, fine, deodorant, got it.

Genevieve 13:48

It's wild to me that that was like a real concern. Yeah, it blows my mind. Blows my mind.

Julia 13:53

Yeah, I mean, I've been there. I feel like I think I think many people can relate to that for sure.

Genevieve 13:57

This isn't wine, by the way. This is water. I'm I'm just I mean, I wouldn't judge you if it were.

Julia 14:02

If you were drinking wine, I'd be like, all right, hazada that. Two weeks. A different kind of a podcast that we're doing, yeah. I would not judge though. I really wouldn't. But yes, everyone, she's drinking water. She's drinking water. So I want to talk about your podcast. You host a podcast called My Victorian Nightmare and appear to be delightfully obsessed with all things Victorian era, which I definitely relate to, or I wouldn't be listening to it in the first place. Now, when did the Victorian era thing first become an obsession or what you were so interested in? When did that happen? It was when I was in my teens, when I was a goth.

Genevieve 14:45

When I was I got a crush on a dude who had hair in his eyes and he wore black and he wore black eyeliner. And I was more like riot girl grunge before I saw this guy, but then I was like, oh, that seems right. And so I got to know him. We dated for a little while, but then I was just immersed in this world of 90s and 80s goth because I started making friends in that friend group. And I didn't listen to Marilyn Manson or any of that. I loved New Wave and I loved the 80s aesthetic of goth. Favorite new wave band, Genevieve. Oh, the cure. Oh god, okay. I say the cure. Plus, yes, I could have been like 900 of them. I can name so many. There, like it's like catch me on the day, and it'll be like Susie. It'll be, you know, yes, yeah. But I I wasn't into this sort of like grungy goth. I loved Victorian goth. It just seemed so aesthetically beautiful. And I also I just I loved the idea, not the I the idea of mourning. Doesn't sound quite right, but the affection for the dead, the wanting to connect with just uh those who are gone. And and I saw that in the there was a whole era that made doing that its like its its primary focus. Pretty much, yeah. And made it beautiful and made darkness beautiful. And I I definitely suffered from serious severe depression in my late teens, early twenties. And I I just I learned the best way to deal with it is to just decorate it, just make it beautiful, turn it into art, something I could share with other people and feel connected to other people with and through. And that's what the entire Victorian era and everyone in it were also doing. So it just really spoke to me. And it was also very empowering. There's something so beautifully empowering about the color black to me. It's not delicate, it is not inoffensive, it's it's very deep and emotional and dramatic and and it doesn't have arsenic in it. And it now it does not have arsenic in it. And well, I had some terrible things in the TV in it, coal tar dies. But even still, I just I found so much delight in that particular kind of darkness. And when I uh later, you know, recently got married to someone who it was a terrible relationship when I left, I had felt like my voice had left when I left that marriage. In the marriage, I had no voice. And as soon as I got out, I just wanted it back so desperately. I was like, when was the last time that I felt that I had my voice and I was only me? And it was when I was, it was 18-year-old Genevieve in her in her goth clothes, learning about the Victorian era, cutting out pictures of corsetry that I'd find in old books and you know, the bizarre magazine from the time. And that's why I started the show. It was really to talk about this thing that was so empowering to me when I was younger, and and and share it and see if anyone wants to hear. Maybe someone else might want to hear this. And little did I know. So many people do, yeah.

Julia 18:22

But something I really love about you and your show is that you tell these terrible stories. I mean, and they're wonderful, but they're terrible. But you do it with such reverence and grace and respect and and compassion. And so you really, you know, there are lots of shows out there about death and murder. Okay. We are like oh yeah, so many. I mean, and I listen to a lot of them. I'm guilty, fine. But yeah, right, but few, I think, really, you know, you don't treat it in this performative way that is offensive, because I think a lot of stuff out there is.

Genevieve 19:30

Yeah. You know, that's I think the difference.

Julia 19:33

Yeah, and I would agree. I would agree with you. And I think that you really I think the execution is very beautiful. I think you hit I think you check all the boxes and you hit the mark. I definitely I feel that way.

Genevieve 19:42

So I hope so.

Julia 19:43

Yeah, and just and also through the storytelling and the I everyone just needs to listen through your storytelling and the added voices and all the things, it's just chef's kiss. So good, so good, so good. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I feel like I feel like my entry level into the Victorian era was Bramster Dracula.

Genevieve 19:58

Oh the movie.

Julia 20:00

The movie.

Genevieve 20:01

That that's ideal for when that came out. That was right when I was getting into my stuff. Like that was 91 and or 92. Yeah. And I was like 12 or 13 and and just getting, you know, interested in music and style and fashion. And yeah, when that came out, when I first saw it, I was like, Yeah, that's it. That's the stuff.

Julia 20:26

It just made me so horny. I was like, I want everything about this.

Genevieve 20:30

It's still everything. Oh my god, you just reminded me to watch it tonight. Thank you. There you go. I have seen that movie a billion times. I love it. It's my favorite, it's my favorite comfort movie.

Julia 20:40

It is so, it's so good. And the soundtrack, like, it is just on point. It's so on.

Genevieve 20:45

Everything is top tier, top tier. The the clothes are an area in the film. Like it's it's rare that you see that where the costuming is in and of itself a character. Yeah. I love it. I love it a lot.

Julia 20:58

It's so good. I wish some of the of the acting were better, but I forget.

Genevieve 21:02

Not me.

Julia 21:03

Oh, really?

Genevieve 21:04

I love the bad acting the most.

Julia 21:08

Oh, Kiato. Oh, and you know what?

Genevieve 21:11

Bless him. Bless him. I my British accent is not for you, sir. No, and he's sitting across from a Welsh actor, Sir Anthony Hopkins, I know where the Boston sleeps.

Julia 21:27

Oh God. Oh God, I know exactly what you're talking about. It's just like you can't unhear that.

Genevieve 21:33

I know where the Boston sleeps. He was not proud of his performance. That much I know. He speaks very, very sadly about his performance. Oh no. I love it. I love every second.

Julia 21:45

Yeah, no, I love it. Yeah. Poor Keanu. Don't feel bad, Keanu. If you're listening, because I know you are. Don't feel bad about it. Yeah. Now, Genevieve, on your podcast, you've alluded to a major midlife shift with not only a marriage ending, but also Also, a job coming to an end. And I'm curious what that period actually looked like for you in real time. So, what was what was unraveling, what was emerging, and how did that moment shape both your life and the work that eventually became my Victorian nightmare?

Genevieve 22:14

Wow, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had always believed that I should be married and then I will have one womanhood or something. And when I got married, I already kind of felt like I don't know about, I don't know about, I don't know how long this will will work because of a number of reasons, which I won't go into, but it was a very, very dark time that decade. And when it ended, I I was just kind of in a like a it felt like a black hole in a lot of ways. I didn't know like my identity going from a married woman to an unmarried woman was a very scary idea. The idea of not having someone that's there. Like, what if I fall? What if I choke? Like I things like that. You know, just what if something terrible happens to me? What if I get a disease? Like those those sort of ideas started coming up. And also just the I really need I needed to be around people a lot when it happened. All my luckily, I have like the greatest group of friends in the world. And they were all like, okay, where are we going? What are we doing? Put me in the calendar. You know, there was a lot of that, and that was really great in the beginning. And and then three months after the divorce came through, I lost my job, a job I loved. And it was with friends that I'd worked with for a decade, more than a decade, actually, something like 14 years. And it it was just so tragic and sad, and just obviously a massive upheaval in a very, very small amount of time. And I made a decision. I made a decision that I had put so much work into leaving him, like the amount of faith and not in a God in myself, but uh the amount of of difficulty dealing with the pain of leaving someone, the feeling like I was a failure, you know, that all that hard, awful stuff. And then to lose the job, I just I made a promise to myself that, and I've and I've said this on the show, I I I was crying like hysterically one day, and I just I heard a voice, and it was you know, not a god, it was me. It was me, the strong me that I missed so much. And she said, You're gonna be okay. I'm gonna help you. You you've got help, but you have to be kind to yourself. And I still can't say it without not crying. You're making me cry. Stop it! No, it became it's become the definition of this era for me. I always said, okay, I'm gonna start doing that now and see where that gets me. I'm gonna promise to be kind to myself going forward because there was you know so much negative self-talk. I was still hearing his voice saying, Why are you doing it that way? Why are you doing it? That was a constant picking at it, and it picked to the core of me and my self-esteem. It's funny. If you listen to my show in the earlier episodes, I was just listening to one of like one of the earlier ones. I sound so scared. I sound so different than I sound now. No one told me that that's how I sounded, and maybe I didn't sound that way to other people, but I'm gonna say I don't think I don't think other people notice.

Julia 26:15

I think it's just something you notice, but I understand. I do, yeah.

Genevieve 26:19

Yeah, I can just I can hear where right when that event was happening, I was just getting my footing into okay, we're just gonna follow this notion of being kind to ourselves, getting our voice back, saying, talking about things that we love, not being afraid to talk about those things anymore, and just being who I who I am, and we'll see where this goes. And it was just like leaping off of a cliff, kind of. And and hoping I grew wings in the process of jumping. And and I did. You did. You did, and it happened. Yeah, but it was it was a very scary time, sad time, difficult time, but definitely just just focusing on, you know, no more like drinking like a fish, like I had done so much in that relationship. You know, we're gonna call friends when we need help. We're not just gonna swallow it. You know, we're gonna build a community of women that are of like mind, no more drinking buddies. You know, we want women in our life. And I'm saying our because I still see me and this spirit as one in the same, but I talk to her, like in the third person. We're gonna find a circle of women that are gonna be there for us, you know. And and that's what I did. I just focused on these things. Be kind to yourself and others, obviously. Build this circle of support. And and things just clicked, things started falling into place, and all of a sudden I had a new fucking career that I built from scratch that I love that is connecting me to amazing people just like you, that I never could have possibly imagined, just like two years ago. So that's what that process was like and continues to be. You know, it's not easy. I'm still building this career of mine, but I'm living in a beautiful one bedroom, you know, in New York, across from the botanical garden. You know, I'm still living a pretty nice life. Yeah. And and yeah, and it's only like onward and upward from here.

Julia 28:43

Yeah, something that comes to mind because you because you mentioned it on the show, but you've also talked about it in the fan coven, everyone. There's a fan coven. And that is, you know, this idea, I think, of living in alignment with who you who you really are. And I think it's that self that the the that voice that's speaking to you. And I so I went to philosophy works for years in the city. I did that program. That's how I got my transcendental meditation mantra. Like that's how I did the whole process. But they incorporate a lot of different philosophies. It's called philosophy works, uh, different backgrounds, you know, different like religions, all kinds, they kind of pluck out the good stuff and turn it into something nice. But they call that sort of inner voice or your soul, whoever, whatever that might be, the unchanging observer. And I've always really loved that. It's this idea, you know, of this that we are who we are from the day that we're born. And no matter what your identity is, meaning like who you are in life, whether you're a podcaster, you're a wife, you're a dog mom, you're, you know, you're a friend. You're you play all these different roles, but that's exactly what they are. And at the end of the day, you are you, yeah, and it doesn't ever change till the day that you die. And I think we forget that, and we're not really paying attention to the voice.

Genevieve 29:57

Yeah. Yeah. And it's very difficult to tune in. You know, I obviously did a lot of therapy after and through that relationship. And the uh I I often talked about how I was so sad that I used to have this voice, this voice that was so wise that even when I was in my dumbest stages of life, I could hear this other wise voice, and she would tell me things and and I would listen to her and I loved her. And I said that, you know, when I was in this relationship, I barely heard from her. And and my therapist, so wonderful, I love this woman, she's wonderful. She's like, Well, Genevieve, you know, she she she recalled a very frightening experience that I had with this ex. And she's like, You mentioned how you heard a voice saying, Genevieve, run, go out the door. You didn't listen, but you but and you lament that you didn't listen. But you had that voice there all along, and you know what she sounds like. And I went, wait, that's right. Even in my lowest place, even in my most blind, you know, to to my world where I was just trying to survive, you know, even then she was there. And I'm like, Well, yeah, how many other times was she there telling me the right thing to do, even though I was so determined to do the wrong thing? You know, and I was like, wait, no, she had been there. And so I put a lot of work, especially after I heard that specific voice of be kind to yourself, really trying to recognize like what is her voice. It is my voice, but it's it's very quiet, it's very soft spoken. She does not scream. That's what anxiety does. She's she speaks very calmly, but with so much love. So much love. She's she's like, she's like a yoda, a female yoda. She's your inner wisdom. Yeah. And and so I've I've just tried to do a lot of work listening to her and making it like as automatic as I can, you know, going forward, quieting the noise so that I could hear her because she's there and she's wise, and I think she's in every single one of us. Yeah.

Julia 32:21

Yeah, I feel like that's a work in progress. I'm constantly trying to find it. I'm a Scorpio sun sign and I'm an ascending Gemini. And it's very, very messy in there sometimes. You know, so sometimes even when I know what the right thing is, I like to do things the really hard way and I like to be very confused. And then when I do it the hard way, I'm very committed.

Genevieve 32:42

So there you go.

Julia 32:44

Figure it out. But I mean, what but I would say, you know, what you did takes a tremendous amount of courage. That it's really so it's hard at any point in life, but I think particularly in midlife, because the culture tells us a lot of things that we're supposed to do, and it's really hard to not listen to those ideas. So that makes it even harder. That whole idea of like, I'm supposed to get married, I'm supposed to have kids, like all of these different things. And so just so much courage to do it. What would one piece of advice be if you were going to give that to any of our listeners who are kind of dealing with the same thing?

Genevieve 33:21

Oh, God. One piece of advice. I would just say surround yourself with wonderful women. Surround yourself with positive women. Surround yourself with positive women. Because I mean, I did a whole episode in the fan coven about how to manifest a coven, how to, you know, can how to attract women who are, when I say positive women, I don't mean that in a syrupy, you know, uh way. I mean women who are working on themselves as well and want to be there, you know, want to listen to that Y Center just as much and want to be there for people as much as they want people there to be there for them. They want to give and they want to receive. And so many of us spend so much of our lives giving, giving, giving, and getting nothing back. And I did that for such a long, long time. And I I another promise I made to myself is I'm never giving anything I'm not getting back ever again. Yeah. Yeah. And so I wanted to surround myself with women who were, and and gay men, beautiful gay men, who were equally the givers and the takers, the ones who who could accept just as well as they would give. And and I found them. And I found them fast too, which is so amazing. Which was shocking to me how fast. Because I already knew, like, you know, one or two witchy type folks. Yeah. Yeah. And I just I'd never really, we never talked about it. But then I was like, hey, do you want to do this? Do you want to do this together? And then, you know, they brought friends who then brought friends. And some felt, you know, weren't quite right, and some were amazing, and now are my closest friends. I didn't think you made friends after 40. Right. I genuinely didn't believe that. Especially, I mean, I work from home, you know, I don't, I, I don't go out. I don't talk to many people. It's shocking that I now have like this circle of like at least 14 beautiful men and women who are all equally the most rad bitches I've ever met. Like, this is what I mean, you know, when I when I talk about just magic. Yeah. You know, I which I talk about on the fan coven. This to me is what magic is. It's the the astounding way that you can use the law of attraction. You know, if you only didn't take out anything supernatural from it. Just when you set your mind and go, I want to do this, I want to surround myself with people like this, and you become that so that you do automatically attract it, then you will. And and that has been the most rewarding thing and most healthy thing, most nourishing thing in this time of my life. And so if you don't have that yet, and you're in this world where I am, or you're in a in a difficult spot and you're in your 40s and you're you're wondering what to do, get some bad bitches to surround yourself with because they will they're they're a sounding board, they're there for you when you need them. They're they're mirrors, they're works of art in themselves. They make my life. They make my life with me, you know. So we need that. I think we need that when we get here because things, things aren't easy. No, they're so much easier with bad bitches.

Julia 36:56

Oh, for sure. For sure. And I think, you know, to your point, I think that um, you know, I romantic relationships are talked about all the time, right? And I feel like the there's a lot of focus on those romantic relationships. And I've said this before, but we should not forget about the other ones. And those are our friends, and those friendships are extremely as important, particularly important, particularly as we age. Because guess what? If you lose your partner or you go through something tragic, with statistically, we're you know, something's gonna happen. So, not everything's gonna go to plan and perfectly. You need your coven to lift you up and surround you with love and take care of you, and you would do the same for them. See, those relationships are so important. I'm glad you brought up witches though, because my next question, well, I should say statement, then question is that you are a witch.

Genevieve 37:50

Yeah.

Julia 37:50

And I think, you know, I told you this when I reached out to you, but I had been like, I've been dipping my toes in the witchy water for like, I don't know, like a couple years. And as I started approaching 50, I was like, I think this is a thing that I want to do, but I don't really know where to start. I don't really know what I'm doing. And then I found your podcast, and then I was like, wait a minute, you she's got a Patreon? And I'm like, wait, did she just say she's got like a guidebook or like a where to start? And I was like, hold on, hold on. And so then I just took the deep dive and I did the guidebook, and then I joined the coven, and I was getting all this information.

Genevieve 38:26

Thank you.

Julia 38:27

I'm serious. I mean, like, I would not, I don't think that I would have started my practice.

Genevieve 38:31

It's just amazing to think that that that anything I could say or do could could could inspire people to to to actually like pick it up and listen to it. Or it's just it's it's just so cool for me to hear.

Julia 38:43

Yeah. I mean, and I'm sure, I mean, I know I'm not the only one, but but truly, like, if if it were not for that experience, I would never have discovered this practice. And I would also say that the information that you give and gave and give is so specific and so like to what I was looking for. For example, I hadn't it had never crossed my mind that there was a way that you could appropriate someone's culture through witchcraft. I had it had never crossed my mind. I'm like Burning Sage, isn't that what we do? And I was like, actually, no. And then I was like, all right, I'm Eastern European. And I was like, we we we sweep things with brooms and we ring bells. That's what we do.

Genevieve 39:22

That is what we do.

Julia 39:23

And it was so cool to, oh God, I mean, like, I just never thought I would be able to find this kind of through line to my ancestry and find this deep connection.

Genevieve 39:32

But that's what it's about. That's what it's all about. And you know, when when when the appropriation topic comes up, you know, some people dig their heels in and say, I should be able to do what I want to do. It's like, but no, the whole purpose here is to do what you just said. This is about connecting into a deep, a deep connection with your ancestry, with, but also with the land that you are on, for sure, the land you are standing on, wherever you're standing. But there's so much about connecting to those who have passed, those who survived before you, that in their lives developed techniques to survive, to love, to share, to all of it. And you still have access to that. And that's that's what it's about. And so I'm not going to use another people's, you know, things, ways, because they're not for me. They're not gonna work anyway. Yeah, not, you know, that's that's not my energy. I have plenty of energy that all of my very long line of witches in my family developed and have handed to me. So, you know, there's that that's that's only one part of that conversation, but that's that's a big part of that conversation. Is it's about digging into where you come from and and how you can stay connected to these beautiful spirits that still surround you.

Julia 41:01

Totally. Yeah. And it's it for me too, it's opened up connection to I don't know, like like on Instagram, I've discovered part of I'm Polish and I'm German. So there's a lot of interesting, like, there are a lot of interesting Polish wishes out there. My connection to the Baba Yaga, would you know this whole like thing? And it I it feels so authentic. Like it feels, you know. So I'm just kind of like, why would you want to use another tool that doesn't belong to you?

Genevieve 41:27

Because this shit feels so cozy. Yeah, it's supposed to. It's in your blood, it's in your your DNA. And also it's like, you know, we when you take away something from another people, you're erasing the people that created it. Yep. You know, and so that that's not what this is about. This is not what this is for. And and I and you'll get nothing out of it, it won't work anyway. That's right. Um, you know, so that's that's that's where my you know position is on it for sure. Definitely. But yeah, I mean, when I think the first time I went to Ireland, you know, I'm I'm both Irish, I'm mostly Irish, but also English. The second I stepped on the ground, I like I took my shoes off. I'm like, I want to feel this grass. I want to lay in a bog. I didn't. It just, yeah, you can feel like, oh yeah, that connection to the land. And I know all the ghosts of so many of my ancestors are here. There's just a feeling of connection that you have, and it's it's there for a reason. It's there so you care for the land and you care for the people there. That's the purpose of it. So yeah, I think I think it's wonderful that you're you're you're you're you're looking at your own history and your own lines and your own the magic that existed that is still at your fingertips for sure.

Julia 42:51

And I would have never known that if I had not found you. I would have never known. Oh, thank you. How did you discover your witchcraft practice? Like, I don't think I've ever, I don't think you've maybe you've touched on it, but I would love to know your origin story with that.

Genevieve 43:04

I didn't. I I I've never not known how to do this stuff. My whole family, all the women in my family, all of them are witchy bitches. And we never called ourselves witches. Oh, well no, some do, some do. And I'm related to half-hanged Mary, Mary Webster, who is one of the only quote unquote witches to survive her own execution. That's right. That's right. But she wasn't a bippity boppity boop witch. She was just a woman who, like most witches, quote unquote, were women who had mouths that they didn't keep shut. And in her case, she owned land as well. But all of the women in my family, like my grandmother would never call herself a witch. But I remember one day I was out with her in her garden, and she had the most monstrous roses you've ever seen. And I was like, nah. How do you what did you do? Like, are these from per see certain seeds? Like, I've never seen roses like this. She's like, Oh, Genevieve, if I come out every morning and I sing to roses every single day. And and I was like, You sing to your roses? She's like, Of course I do. And I tell them all about my energy. Like, she she she would go out and have conversations, singing to her roses. And and I would say, I would you could call that a garden witch. Someone's about to say a green witch or a garden witch, yeah. She would never call herself that. But that def that kind of way that she she had a whole shrine in her basement. But we uh all of the women in my family all have these things. My aunts and my cousins now call themselves witches, but but my grandmothers and the mothers before those, I mean Glenda, Billy Burke, the great, you know, she's my great cousin, my first great first wild, yeah. Glenda, the good witch of the north, is my great cousin. But I'm sure she wouldn't have called herself a witch either. Yeah, probably not. But she was a very magical woman, not just the part that she played, everything I learned about her. She's just was such a sparkly lady. But I just always grew up playing in the dirt and wondering. Well, I I always say this. You know, of all the things that you've heard about how to tell a witch, a natural quote-unquote witch, there's one thing that we all have in common, every single one of us. You know a witch by her collections of natural things. I've always collected dead flowers. My apartment is completely covered in roses and other flowers that I I fill my my place with. And some collect stones, some collect shells, some just go outside and they're they they they can feel an energy from a natural thing, and they can't put it into words, and you don't have to either. You feel a connection with the natural world around you, and you know that it is precious, and you feel like this is changing my environment, this is altering the energy in here, whatever this thing is. And it that's it, that's just the way I always was. It wasn't until maybe five years ago that I actually even called myself a witch. I never called myself that ever. Meanwhile, I'm wearing black and and covering my home and dead flowers and meditating and talking to my dead ancestors and and and and lighting things on fire. That's the other thing, too. When I started to research what witches do, you know, when I bought my own books and stuff, I was like, I already do all this shit. There's things that I was already doing that I didn't even consider witchcraft. Yeah. Like, oh, if I want to see something happen, I'm, you know, I know I need to make intentions of how I'm going to see them through. I need to really think, but I didn't really get too into like moon and and astrology stuff until not too long ago, honestly. I think that was like two or three years ago that I was like, okay, this is a thing witches do. I'll learn about the moon phases and see. Because I would just do things when I felt them, which is, you know, what you're supposed to do as well. You know, it's just it it can be helpful to know what's going on up in the heavens because sometimes it does to me, at least I feel my energy does seem to align.

Julia 47:38

Oh, a hundred percent.

Genevieve 47:40

Yeah. Yeah. So it definitely helped to to give me like a schedule.

Julia 47:45

Yeah. Yeah. There's, you know, there's something about, you know, sticking like with particularly with like the moon cycle, there's that that structure that schedule's in place for a reason. I mean, we needed that when we were, you know, ancient civilizations. We had to go by something for crops and blah blah blah. So it's very natural to sort of have your life revolve around these occurrences. It's just, it's just, it's in our DNA.

Genevieve 48:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it just made all made more sense to me. And I was like, oh, okay, I'll start doing this now. But but there was so much I was already doing, but not calling it witchcraft at all. It was just like, oh yeah, this is how I I connect to my world and my history and my and my I've had dead people in my life my whole life, and have spoken with them and and and you know, asked them for help, you know, so many times in my life that it never occurred to me to call it witchcraft at all. You're already doing it.

Julia 48:48

Yeah. It was just the thing I do. Now, how does that intersect? Because you're a you're a Buddhist, right, as well. How does that now how does that intersect?

Genevieve 48:59

So Therabada, this is the way I like to put it, Therabadan Buddhism allows me to use what's already inside of me to see outside more clearly. Witchcraft allows me to use what is outside of me to see inside more clearly. And I find thank you. I find that the the teachings of the Buddha in regard to mindfulness, you know, his main main bag is an it's an essential to regulating your energy, to working with your own energy, to understanding your own energy and allowing energy. And I it's it's the most black metal religion out there, and I love it for that. It's so dark, and people think Buddhism, isn't it so peaceful? Like, yeah, sure. But I love the instruction that the Buddha gave to look deep into the dark soul and and work with very dark energy, and he provided techniques to work with you know, wonderful energy and beautiful energy and peaceful energy, but also your darkest energy. Yeah. And so I find the techniques of of Theravadan Buddhism to align perfectly with the energy work that I do as a witch. I think, you know, when you listen to a lot of witches talk about energy work, it often sounds kind of vague. It's like there's shadow work and then there's love and light. And I, you know, and and I don't see these things as, you know, and I never like to shit on other witches. I do not and ever and will not ever, but I just find that the Buddha really laid out some actionable techniques that are not really written or spoken about in witchcraft circles as specifically and as efficiently as I find in Buddhism. Yeah. But the thing is though, I also find witchcraft is a lot is really about community. It's not just about solitary stuff. What you give to your community, you get back in so many ways. It's how to make your world a better, more beautiful place. It's not just you alone. It's your make, you're literally making the world a better place. And the Buddha definitely talked about that too, but that's more in the witchcraft kind of thing. Witches, quote unquote, witches were folk healers, they were midwives, they were women and men, but mostly women who gave to their communities because it fed them, it fed them energy and connected them deeply to their world. And again, it's not that the Buddha dissuaded or said you shouldn't. In fact, there's there's something, you know, the term is the sangha, but the sangha is the the group of Buddhist practitioners that you should, you know, make a community with. But witchcraft to me is it's everyone in the entire world is my community. And I know some Buddhists may may disagree with that, that they would say that that is what the Buddhist said. But I think witchcraft really drives that home in a different way than Buddhism does. So I take from both, you know, and they both complement each other, the craft and my Buddhist practice. Absolutely.

Julia 52:21

Yeah, I can see that. And I think it's also a very good reminder for anyone out there who's thinking of beginning their practice that it can coexist with whatever religious practice you might have. It does not have to be separate, they can totally coexist and they can intersect. And um, I think that's a really great way of putting it and reminding people that they don't have to give up one for the other, that they can no, not at all.

Genevieve 52:46

You can be a Christian witch, you could be a Jewish. There's a lot of Jewish Jewish witches. Yes. There are a lot of, yeah, no, it's it's because this is about the earth. This is about energy, and everyone has access to energy. No one that energy is not a closed practice working with energy, you know. So yeah, this this belongs to all, to all.

Julia 53:07

To all.

Genevieve 53:08

To all.

Julia 53:09

I'm gonna shift gears. I want to talk about Edgar Allan Poe. Okay. So uh Genevieve is very obsessed with that Edgar Allan Poe. We've talked about previously, and I think you're starting a podcast, a new podcast. Yes, we'll get to that a little bit later because I've been having promote.

Genevieve 53:26

Sort of maybe it's not ready yet. It's not ready yet. In fact, it's probably gonna be a long time, but you're gonna be the first person right now that I'm even gonna talk about it if I'm using it. So I have been working on a the only narrative like podcast that I've ever made, where it's just it's a story. And yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna tell you. I'm just gonna tell you. Oh, tell me, tell me. It's basically it's it's the story about Poe that every goth ever wished would be a story. Like, there's no story, no movie about Poe that actually feels like Poe. Not one. He's either solving murder mysteries, like what? No. He's either, you know, he's in in some, you know, an academy, you know. Oh, that's right.

Julia 54:16

Was that Christian Bale, I think, or something in that one?

Genevieve 54:18

Yeah, the pale blue eye. It's just the pale blue eye. It's like, yeah, none of these feel like feel not what I want like the goth Poe. And so I decided to dream up the story that I wanted to see, and it may one day be a film or Netflix situation, but it has to be a podcast first. It's if the sixth sense meets Poe. Imagine it's it's like imagine that every story was true, and anywhere where anyone died was actually coming to him and telling him to write their stories, to make stuff happen, to get someone caught, to, you know, just for revenge for whatever. There's always a reason why he has to write these out. And the only way that he can get rid of these ghosts is to write their stories for them. Yeah. And it goes through his life and where he was. I did so much deep diving into his history because I wanted to tell his actual story too. Yeah. That's not something you see ever. I wanted to sh tell actually like legitimate bits and pieces of his history that people don't know from when he was a little boy all the way up to when he died. So, all throughout the supernatural kind of spooky elements of the story, he's it's really him and and what he was going through and his you know marriage and and everything else around it. It's an ode. It's an ode to Poe for sure. Yeah, so we'll see. I'm still working on it. It's gonna take some time to get out, but but that's that's what it's about.

Julia 55:57

I have faith in you, and I'm glad that you're following this thread. I'm really excited to hear it. Thank you. Maybe see it, whatever that may be. Uh I am gonna ask you some rapid fire Victorian questions, which I think you'll enjoy answering. So we'll see. Okay. They're very easy. I feel like these are, I feel like this is a low lift for you. Okay. All right. What's your favorite Victorian era book?

Genevieve 56:28

I know. Not that easy. I don't know. I mean, I obviously there's Frankenstein, but yes. I mostly just I just love poetry. I love the short, the short stories, like pose short stories. Like Fall of the House of Usher is one of my favorite stories ever. So good. Yeah, so I don't know if I can speak to other Victorian books because obviously there's Frankenstein, but it's I I just I'm I'm far more of a fan of of the dark, dark poetry of the era. That's an answer. All those books.

Julia 56:57

Okay. I'll take it. No, that works. Yeah. Good, good. That met that that met the criteria. Yeah, okay. Fantastic. Okay. Favorite Victorian era movie.

Genevieve 57:07

I mean, Dracula. But let's see. There's some there are some honorable mentions. I really like the woman in black. That's a Daniel Radcliffe joint. Yes. That's that's a good one. It's got like I just love the mood. I love having it on in the background.

Julia 57:20

Yeah. You brought this up one time before, and I was like, yes, yes, yes. We you had talked about the others. And like the others is very cuspy, right? Because it's got like past tense Victorian.

Genevieve 57:32

Yeah. Well, it takes place tech, I think in the 40s. In the 40s, where Nicole Kittman is, but the ghosts are from Victorian era. They all died of tuberculosis.

Julia 57:41

Yes, because that's right, because they have the creepy photos, the creepy uh memento mori.

Genevieve 57:46

But that was the first, that was the first time I learned what memento mori were. I saw that in the beater, and I was like, whoa! I was like, ooh, I've even got goosebumps now. It gave me like the perfect flavor of hebie jeebies. Yeah. I dig so deep into Memento Mori on the show because it is so creepy. It used to fascinate me.

Julia 58:05

Yeah, very, it's very cool, very interesting. That I saw I watched that movie by myself. It scared the shit out of me. It was such a mistake. I was like, why'd I do that? All right, one last. What is your favorite bazaar? Victorian social norm or tradition.

Genevieve 58:26

Oh, there's so many. Oh my god, my favorite bazaar. I mean, there's I do love the hair art. Please explain. The hair, yeah, the hair of dead bodies. And they would make beautiful wreaths and and put it in jewelry. There's a museum of funerary hair art. I know exactly where it is. Yeah. Where someone has just, you know, would and in the movie Nosferatu that came out recently. There was one in in the background in a scene, and I was like, oh, hair art.

Julia 59:03

Hair art. You're like, I know everything there is to know about this era. That's hair art.

Genevieve 59:07

Yes, yeah, that's hair art. That's a dead person's hair. Yeah, that was a really interesting thing that they did. They they loved hair and they loved to make it again into jewelry, into artwork, and they would hang it on the walls and gross. They crochet with it. Or I don't know, crochet is the term, but they would they would sew it into, yeah.

Julia 59:24

I don't need anyone's hair in my sweater or my hat. Yeah, I know. It's not for me.

Genevieve 59:28

It's not for me. I can appreciate the affection there, but yeah, not for me.

Julia 59:33

Leave it out of my clothing. You could put it, put it in a locket, but I don't want to know. That's that's too much.

Genevieve 59:37

Yes, yes, yes.

Julia 59:38

So, Genevieve, we have reached the end of this interview. We have two more things to do. The two things that I do with every single person that I interview. And the first thing is I'm gonna ask you to tell me your spooky story. So, again, this can be a haunting, it can be a moment of kizmet, following your gut.

Genevieve 59:55

Tell us your story. All right, question. I have a question for you. Do you prefer spooky or do you just prefer like weird and wild? Let's do weird and wild. Let's do weird and wild. Okay, so I can tell when people are pregnant. And all my in my family. In my family. And and it's not just like when they've walked in and I can tell. They could be on the opposite side of the planet, and I'm gonna call them and say, hey, guess what? And when my sister became pregnant, this was the first time that I realized that I had, and I'm not psychic in any other way. Like I, if I were, I would be, you know, the lottery tickets, no other cool way. The moment my sister, she was holding the strip. She just peed on the stick. I was sitting with my friend, my friend Betsy, and and never would I ever, if I'm like sitting with a friend and talking, go, excuse me, I need to make a phone call. Like that's never gonna happen. I am so present with friends. But I was like, excuse me, Betsy, I need to make a phone call. And it was just completely overcome. I'm like, my sister's pregnant, she's absolutely pregnant. And I called her and she when I was like, Alicia, are you pregnant? I heard my cousin screaming in the background because my sister didn't want to say anything yet. Oh my god, because she literally just found out, and she was like, No. Lies, yeah, but my cousin heard me through the phone and was just scream screaming, and but my sister was like trying to calm her down because she was she still wasn't a hundred percent sure yet, even though weirdly calling her, but she's like, and also she didn't want to say yet, you know, she doesn't want to change anything, so she went, No, what no? And I was like, You're pregnant, Alicia. I know you're pregnant, but we'll talk to you later. Three months later, she she called, and my cousin was still screaming in the background. That was the first time. The second time was my just recently with my brother and my sister-in-law, and they had been trying for so long, and I had all my witches doing things. I have a I have a doula in in my coven, and and she she was like, Okay, again, just like my grandmother. She's like, I'll go out to my garden. What's her name? I'm gonna whisper her name to all of the all of the plants and tell them to help her grow. It was very sweet. And as soon as they walked in, just like a couple of months ago, like two or three months ago, I was like, I'm not gonna say it this time. I literally had to stop myself tonight. She wasn't showing at all. She was only three months, and I was like, I hell had I held my tongue this time. I did not say anything. I'm so proud of you. I don't know if I could. I had to go to the bathroom. I had to go to the bathroom to contain my joy. That's how real I knew that it was happening. And they've been trying for the last three years. Oh how wonderful! Yeah. As soon as they, as soon as they're like, okay, guys, we have something to say. I was like, you're like, I already know. Yes.

Julia 1:03:12

It's so crazy. So that's a weird, weird trait of mine. We have one more thing to do, and that is my practice of bibliomancy. And this is where you are going to hold a question in your head. I am going to pick a page from a book, and we are going to interpret that page and see if it informs on the question at all. Now, two books for you to choose from. You're going to like these. I've got ornithography, so birds, or beautiful Victorian floriography, which is flowers. I mean, yes, of course. All right. This is a very popular one. All right. So I'm going to have you hold this question in your mind, and when you're ready, I will choose a good one I have it.

Genevieve 1:04:07

Okay. You got a flower called the Lady Slipper.

Julia 1:04:12

I don't know what the hell this flower is. It's pretty though. All right. The oh, the meaning is capriciousness. Hmm. The origin, here we go. These orchids, oh, it's an orchid. Well, there you go. All right. These orchids are famously fickle and difficult to cultivate. Some can take over a decade to bloom and few survive transplant transplantation. Is that right? Transplantation. Yes.

Genevieve 1:04:37

Yeah, yeah.

Julia 1:04:37

Others, however, if left und undisturbed, can live for up to 50 years. You would pair it with a hawthorn for hope for a good outcome or a snapdragon to encourage a friend in an unpredictable situation. Now tell me what that means for you.

Genevieve 1:04:55

I have no idea, but I'll tell you, do you want me to tell you what the question is? Yeah, tell me the question. Yes. So the question was what becomes of us when we die? We're capricious. We're capricious. We're capricious when we die. Do not dig us up. Do not move us. We do not travel well. Oh man, I hate those stories when they dig up people. It's like, oh, there's so many of them. The Victorian era. You could you couldn't stay in the ground back then. They were always digging them up and moving them. Poe. That's what happened to Poe, but that was good though. He didn't belong where he was. Yeah. But yeah, I take that that when you leave, leave us where we are, pick a good plot and just let us be. And let us be. Otherwise, we're getting we'll get confused. Let us be. Let us be.

Julia 1:05:45

On that note, moral of the story.

Genevieve 1:05:47

Yeah.

Julia 1:05:48

Let us be. Genevieve, this was so fun. And I'm so grateful that you did this. You didn't know me from Adam, and you said yes, and I could not believe it. And I'm just so happy that you came. But before I let you go, tell all of the Listeners, where to find you in all the places.

Genevieve 1:06:04

Okay, where to find me in all the places? You can find me in all of the places, in on Spotify, on Apple, on whatever podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. My Victorian Nightmare is the podcast. You can also, if you want to, if you if you listen and you really like it and you want to join the Patreon to hear witchy stuff, hear Victorian true crime extras, and some dark poetry that I read.

Julia 1:06:27

In her very silky voice. I don't know if you've noticed. Very silky.

Genevieve 1:06:33

My laugh, my cackle.

Julia 1:06:35

Your cackle. If you don't have a loud laugh, you're not my friend. It's not gonna work.

Genevieve 1:06:40

But yeah, so My Victorian Nightmare, you can find it anywhere you find your spooky podcasts. Excellent.

Julia 1:06:45

And then Blue Sky, Instagram, same, right? My Victorian Nightmare. Yes. Yes, definitely. Same. All right, wonderful. Everybody get up there, listen to it, join the Patreon, join the coven, get all of the good stuff. Genevieve, this has been so wonderful. Again, thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate it.

Genevieve 1:07:00

Thank you, Julia. It was lovely to talk to you. Have a wonderful evening, honey. Thank you, you too.

Outro

Genevieve 1:07:05 Julia 1:07:05

Agecraft after dark is written, produced, and edited by me, Julia Brunacchi. The music Bernard Bernard Brunette by Ivy Virus. Have a question or a spooky story? I want to hear it. Leave me a message at speakpipe.com forward slash agecraft. And you might just hear yourself on the show. For more agecraft content, join me on Substack at agecraft.substack.com. If you'd like to work with me and learn more about all of the things, head to juliagwellness.com. Thanks for listening. Remember, visibility is activism. And until next time, stay curious, stay a little haunted, and I'll see you in the dark.