How Property Managers Create Freedom With Boutique Models

We explore Jody's 21-year path from reception to founder, why she stepped away to reset, and how she returned to support a modern, low-overhead property management business with real support and smarter systems. The conversation challenges sales-first thinking and shows practical ways to protect mental health, retain talent, and grow through partnerships.

• early career moves across reception, trust accounting, assistant PM and head of department
• stepping out for personal reasons and returning with renewed purpose
• mental health, flexible time off and genuine cover for phones and emails
• why strong heads of department change culture and retention
• sales principals trusting PM experts and setting sustainable workloads
• PM as a core business asset requiring reinvestment
• Zebra PM membership model, costs, tech stack and freedom of tools
• boutique growth via sales-only partnerships and warm referrals
• Coffee Convos community and Speakeasy Saturdays for safe networking
• practical steps for PMs considering business ownership

Please reach out to Jodie on Instagram at The Zealous PM or on Facebook at Jodie Hingst to connect, ask questions, or join a Coffee Convos near you

PM COLLECTIVE - GUIDE AND SHAPE AN ENJOYABLE FUTURE

We believe in making industry-leading education and support accessible to everyone. Our community is packed with free resources, expert insights, and innovative training designed to help business owners, property managers, and BDMs thrive.

This podcast is kindly sponsored by The Efficiency Co.

We are a dedicated consultancy, training, and support partner for innovative real estate organisations.

Specialising in agency operations, team development and technology integration, we provide the insight, support, and training to maximise your performance.

Our toolbox includes 1:1 Coaching for industry pros, 1:1 Personal Strategy Sessions, Team Engagement Workshops and Bespoke Agency Consultation

This podcast is sponsored by PropertyMe.

Australia's #1 Property Management Software. www.propertyme.com.au

Chapters

• 1:07 Meet Jodie From Zebra PM
• 2:39 Career Journey Across Roles
• 8:26 Leaving Real Estate For CAT Machinery
• 12:06 Mental Health, Breaks, And Flexible Work
• 19:10 Valuing PMs And Sustainable Portfolios
• 24:50 Strong HOD Leadership And True Time Off
• 31:07 Sales Principals vs PM Expertise
• 36:27 PM Departments As Core Business Assets
• 42:17 Zebra PM’s Plug‑And‑Play Membership Model
• 49:00 Overheads, Tools, And Not Skimping On Tech

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:33

I didn't think so. Now it is.

SPEAKER_03: 0:35

Now it is amazing. So welcome to today's podcast. I have got a I'm gonna call her a new friend because I I am going to deep dive into the questions I would if I was catching up with this lady for a coffee, which we haven't probably formally done before. Her name is Jodie. She is from Zebra Property Management. Welcome, Jodie.

SPEAKER_01: 0:57

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03: 0:59

Now just remind me, when did we last like I know that we last met in Queensland? Was that the first time we've met or had we met before? I always get confused because I see people on social.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09

We were social friends on Instagram and Facebook, and then we met in person at the PPM conference.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16

Got it, got it. Because that's that's it. I always get confused, and I'm like, have I met them before or do I just see them all the time on social?

SPEAKER_01: 1:22

So I do the same thing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24

Yeah, and it was great to see you. I think you actually came up to me, which was which was lovely. And I am really wanting to because we're obviously in different states. If I was close by, I'd be like, Jodie, let's go have a coffee. Because I want to like, you know, see what you've been up to and what you're doing. And I think that you have um from the the small snippets I've had of you, I think you've got an incredible business mind when it comes to property management. And I can't wait for the listeners to sort of hear a bit more about that conversation. So to start off, we're going to ask you, can you tell us a bit of a bit more about you, your history in property management and and what you are doing now?

SPEAKER_01: 2:08

Yeah, so I like most people didn't leave school envisioning to be in real estate. I got into uni and put it on defer for a year, and I was just working my casual job, and one of the local business owners, when they I was serving them at Woolworths, said to me, Do you want to come be in our receptionist? And I was like, Yeah, sure, I need a full-time job. I'm not, I'm taking a year off. So that was it. 17, straight out of school, on the reception desk. And here we are, 21 years later.

SPEAKER_03: 2:45

And where have you what sort of positions have you held during that 21 years? So I was studying reception, then what did that next position look like?

SPEAKER_01: 2:54

Yeah, so went from reception there, and then I actually that agency sold not that long after. So then I went to reception for LJ Hooker at the local LJ Hooker office, and I was with them for a long time. So I progressed with them from receptionist, I did their trust accounting next. That was back in the days when we used to take cash, so that was quite a quite a mission. And then I was went into be an assistant property manager, and I my two mentors while I was in that role were two property managers who had been in the role for over 20 years at that point in time. So they were just full of knowledge, and they yeah, I was like a little sponge. I was just like, tell me everything and storing it away. So within that role, the assistant property manager did the leasing, we processed the application, so we kind of did that portion of what generally is separated out these days into other another another role. And then I was pregnant with my first baby while there, and they offered me to transition into what they called the business systems operator, which was like the sales admin role. So I wasn't going out at the office as much, and they just kind of they're very family-oriented business, they just kind of said, We don't want to expose you, like we want you here where we can keep an eye on you. So that was really lovely. So I did that role, and that was exciting. That was back when we built sales ads for the newspaper, so you know, prior to social media. So that was really fun. And then I went on maternity leave. I lasted three months and then came back and worked as a sales PA for a couple of agents and just did a lot of letterbox dropping, pushing my daughter in the Pram. I would fill the bottom of the Pram up with all the leaflets, and then I would just letterbox drop their core areas and do that, and then just do lots of like focused marketing, like direct mail outs and things. Do building and pests here and there when they needed it, but just really focused on making sure that all their, you know, letterbox drops and direct marketing got out on time. Then from there, I did a bit of a head of department role for another franchise group, which was really great. I that was stepping back into property management and I learned so much because obviously I was in an office that was basically I was the only one there, and I was building it. It was just under 100 properties, and I did everything end to end, absolutely every role. There was just two other sales agents in the office, but obviously, my love for the LJ Hooker franchise. I then went back in their other office, which is owned by his brother, and I worked there for many, many years. I mean different roles in different capacities. You know, senior property manager, senior property manager just for a new business portfolio. So I would look after them for the first 12 months of their journey with that office, and then obviously once they were comfortable and all the maintenance had settled down because a lot of these properties have been sold, they would then transition into one of the other portfolios. I did have a brief moment where I stepped out and I did a few years for Hastings Deering, which is the cat machinery dealer in Queensland. So I worked in their head office of warranty operations, which is kind of like warranty and maintenance on a house, except it's just on a machine. So I found it really interesting but quite easy to understand and get a hold of. But it was really fun because we actually did warranty for the machines for Queensland, Northern Territory, Papua New Guinea, and the Solomon Islands. Yeah. And we did all of that from the Queensland Head Office. So I got to interact with a lot of really great people, and I'm still friends with a lot of them today, and we're all friends on social media, and it's just like really great to see. And then I've also had a couple of referrals from them. Now I started my own business of them saying, Hey, we saw your own, have your own property management business now. Can you look after this for us? So that was really lovely. But yes, back to LJ Hooker after there. There's a common theme here, obviously. Well, I'm just actually gonna stop you there because I'd love to find out why.

SPEAKER_03: 7:33

Like if you're in real estate and then you decided to go, what you know, you step into sort of the the cat roll. What was it that happened for you to go? You know what, I need a little bit of a break from the industry. Was it was it yeah?

SPEAKER_01: 7:52

It was more just like personally. I moved from Brisbane and I moved to Yappoon, and I just needed a break, like everything, like you know, personally like separating with my daughter's father, and I just needed a break, and I just needed something I guess that had less conflict because my personal life was in conflict, so that was pretty much the basis of it. But then what happened was while I was there, I just missed getting out of the office, I missed interacting with people, like I still interacted with people, but I just kind of felt this calling like I just need to go back.

SPEAKER_03: 8:40

And then it was going to be my next question. Yeah, what made you go back to it? So it was just like an energetic feel that I can.

SPEAKER_01: 8:50

Yeah, I literally just felt drawn to go back. I called my old boss and said, I'm ready to come back to the industry. And I had in that interest still kept up with all my training externally and my like registration and everything, and extra training with Stacy Holt. So I hadn't missed anything. So yeah, they were just like, Yep, come back, we need someone, and just slot it in.

SPEAKER_03: 9:21

It sounds like that may yeah, that maybe that move out of the industry, maybe subconsciously, was I just need a break for the moment. It was never a I'm done. It was I need a break.

SPEAKER_01: 9:33

Absolutely, with never I'm done. Yeah, um, I just needed some separation. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 9:43

So for people that because there's a lot of people listening that are in in similar situations, and it's it's really, yeah. I mean, I'm no psychologist, but I do feel that sometimes when people are feeling stress and they've got you know personal situations at home, relationship problems at home, sometimes we do find that the easiest thing to not, and I'm not saying that you were blaming, but the easiest thing to blame or change is work. And I am just also sort of wondering, is there I don't think there's anything you regret because you really sounded like you enjoyed your time at CAT and learned a lot doing that. But in hindsight, if there was someone that was in a similar position with relationship issues or just a lot of stress at home and needing that break, what sort of advice would you give them? Would you give them the advice of just stepping out for six months, or is there something that they could maybe like, yeah, what would that discussion look like if you were having that with them?

SPEAKER_01: 10:43

Yeah, I think today we're a lot more acknowledging of mental health and how that affects everything in the workplace. And I think that that's excellent because I think it allows the conversations to happen. Whereas back then it was still kind of, I guess, the old mentality, like you work at work, home at home, you don't bring one to the other. And I think a lot of those business owners have retired and transitioned out in the last kind of 15 to 20 years, and the the new business owners coming through really recognizing that sometimes you just need a mental health day, and sometimes you just need, you know, to swap a position in the office for a six-month period, or you know, and it's good for everyone to learn different skills. So I would say talk to your boss first because they're much more approachable these days than what they were back then. And it's so hard to find good staff these days. So like they would be willing to help you and do what needs to happen for you to then, you know, have that space to breathe, find your spark again, and then obviously come back in the capacity that you are comfortable with.

SPEAKER_03: 12:23

Yeah, so yeah, and you're right, like speaking to your boss is definitely the first thing. But yeah, it could be that you just need to take the next four Fridays off just to have to yourself when the kids are at school, and you can have a day of laying in bed and watching Netflix if you wish, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00: 12:43

We just need that.

SPEAKER_03: 12:44

Um that's and and maybe that needs to be encouraged more. And I mean, as I say that, I can I can hear that there there'll be people listening that might go, well, that's what weekends are for, and you know, that that's what you've got your annual leave for, and you do. But I think that as a business owner, the alternate is they will leave the industry.

SPEAKER_01: 13:14

So those four days grace you might give someone, or that one a week for the next month, in the hindsight, is a pretty small yeah, and it can still come out of their care, their sick leave or carers leave or annual leave, but allowing them that flexibility, what then happens is they're not calling in sick on the day and you might have all these appointments scheduled, like things aren't falling apart. So when you're able to plan ahead and give them the time, you also plan ahead with appointments. So therefore, they're able to take the time. And I think a lot of business owners these days are realizing that you can't manage, you know, a huge amount of properties with all the legislation changes we've had. Like we're having to really focus on the relationships, and that means we don't manage as many properties, essentially, in that capacity, which also then helps because you know, I guess back then as well, like the rents hadn't doubled in Queensland, um, like they have now. Like obviously it was a different set of fees that were coming in to now. So you were managing more because of the income that needed to obviously be generated to hold your position. But I feel like we value the property manager more these days. Still not enough for me, still not enough, but they're realizing that they are absolutely stellar human beings that do this job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 14:53

And I think going so back to that, like, you know, that time, you know, giving them that time if they do need the odd day, making sure that they are having a proper break, which might include telling them that they've got permission to divert their phone to you for the day so that they're not having to turn their phone off, but then deal with the same workload, but just you know, the stress of just removing one day, you need to make sure that someone is covering their emails and their phone on that day that they've taken off. Otherwise, they won't take it off.

SPEAKER_01: 15:31

Absolutely. And that's where an absolute, excellent head of department comes in. So a head of department who's been there, done that, been on the ground, knows what it's like. For me, like if you know, anyone that was working for me, if they needed a day, I'm like, Dive it, send it to me. I'm doing your emails, don't touch a thing. And then if I notice they've touched a thing, there it's like I'm like texting them, like, don't touch a thing.

SPEAKER_03: 15:59

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I think a lot it took me a long time to get to that point. And it wasn't for any reason other than sort of lack of education, but I've definitely made it a mission in the last couple of years to make sure that we when they go on leave, they do go on leave and they do if they at any time during the week that they feel stress or overwhelmed, everyone's got permission to divert their phone to me. I don't even know whose phone's diverted and who's not. Like I just get phone calls and I deal with them as they come through. So they've always got permission for that. But yeah, I I think the the problem is that the people that listen to these podcasts, like listening to this one now, these ones are generally the good business owners, the good property management heads that always listening to podcasts, wanting to learn, and are probably already doing the right thing. And the the dilemma that I have is that the ones that need to hear this are the ones that don't do the self-development, don't listen to the podcasts, and they need to hear it. So it's like, how do we get this information in front of those people? It's like I need to probably like create a sales, a sales agent. Maybe this is a good idea, maybe sitting like doing a podcast that's for sales agents, but you know how to how to manage how to be a sales agent, like business owner, but owner.

SPEAKER_01: 17:25

I think I think where yeah, it struggles is the if you have a property management principal who is a you know from that side of the business, it's a little bit different to an active selling principal who is focused on the sales team. And I think where they could actually they don't even have to stop and learn the other side, but I think them putting in a good head of department in their property management business would just sort that out for them. Um and yeah, it's really hard because a short of shouting from the rooftops and hijacking every sales conference there is, and you know, probably embracing a bit of the tarpy mentality of Wheeler property managers and just really getting in their faces. I just don't know. You're right, like the the people we need to talk to aren't the people who are listening.

SPEAKER_03: 18:19

Correct. So do you know what? I've written this down, I'm gonna work on that. I think there is a, you know, this is why I love like I I say I love having conversations with people because it sparks ideas and it sparks things like that, which is I think somehow whether that's a podcast idea or as a separate one or something I can bring into a season into the Art of Property Management podcast where it literally is for sales and it's marketed to sales principles only. But but you're right, like if you if you are a sales principal and you haven't managed properties before, then that's that's okay, but don't try and be the expert in the property management, just get somebody in to do that, just like you would get someone in to do admin if you know good at admin or someone in to do like you have an accountant and a keeper and all of that.

SPEAKER_01: 19:13

Yeah, like property management is highly specialized. So if if you're not there, that's fine. Just get the right person in and let them nail it for you and provide you the high-level updates that you need as a business owner to make decisions, yeah, and really just rely on the team to educate you on what you need to be educated on.

SPEAKER_03: 19:36

Yeah, because I'm just also likening it to a financial advisor, like in real estate, like they like the property management department is their asset. It's like you've got a financial advisor who looks after your maybe your you know, your personal assets and property and whatever it is for that your personal growth. But like that's what your head of department is, like you said, having the right making sure they're giving you the right information, but that's sort of like a financial advice because they're they're advising on a pretty expensive, important part of your asset pool. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 20:11

It's a massive asset. I don't think a lot of them realize just how much money is sitting within their PM departments and that reinvesting some of that income from that into good, experienced staff who can then train and mentor the next generation coming through so that you know we can continue to offer that long term. Um because, you know, I don't think that the Australian dream of owning property and then renting it out or whatever happens, I don't think that's gonna end. So that there's they're always gonna need someone to have that expertise. And if we don't really value them in those positions and show that, then like what has happened since COVID is a lot of great property managers have left and there's not a lot of, I guess, backfill to take those positions.

SPEAKER_03: 21:15

Yeah, no, totally. Now, can you tell us a little bit more about Zebra property management and sort of like the platform? Um, because I know you're very passionate about business ownership, about property managers stepping up and really living a life of somewhat financial freedom or you know, having that that behind them. Can you sort of talk through sort of uh yeah, a bit about that and sort of a bit about that sort of topic that you love?

SPEAKER_01: 21:47

Yeah, I'm so passionate about property managers having their own business and you don't have to be within a sales business, and you don't have to be in a franchise model. So I have been working with agents agency for all my three years, and during that time we have been trying to come up with model slash models that really embrace property management because we all know that sales agents are really good go-getters at, you know, if they're wanting to have their own sales company, they'll they'll do that. Property managers are kind of quietly in the corner, second guessing themselves, I guess, at whether they can do it and they can't do it. So, what we did is we took Manos and Maria's Zebra property management, which is their original business in Frankston, Victoria. And it was a really funny moment when I showed them the branding that I had come up with in Canva for my own business prior to even working with them. The actual fonts and the branding was really similar to all of that of Zebra property management. And it for me, it was just like, I want to use it. Like it's clean, it's nice, and so it's it's like a plug-and-play model, really, because the the branding's already done. You're using a shared REA account, so you know, you're kind of that cost is not existent. You're getting your emails, your call logic login, you're getting all of this bundled into a membership option, which you can essentially just run within use. So for me, it was such a no-brainer because the overheads were so low. And then, you know, freedom and choice of property management CRM, for me, that was also a no-brainer with PropertyMe. But, you know, if they're wanting to use other softwares, that's not a problem because we're just giving them the tools and the business structure, and they can then run that however they're confident to. And then I just hold their hand every step of the way to get that up and running. And we also have like a custom branding side as well. So if you're not wanting to use the zebra branding and you just you kind of see yourself more having a custom brand, we offer that as well. Those businesses that are predominantly property management have a lot to do with and holding their hand to make sure they feel confident and in doing what they're doing. Because even the most successful property managers, when they start opening their own business and it's all very confusing once you start opening companies and trusts and trust accounts and appointing an auditor. It's just nice to have someone who's done it before to bounce that off, to give multiple ideas or solutions for it that you can then go and pick and choose how to do that. Because it doesn't matter how confident they are in, you know, securing new business, etc. This is a little area that they're probably not confident in. So I like to help them through that part so they can do what they need to do, which is go and pitch for the business and start bringing in the managements.

SPEAKER_03: 25:10

It's such a I love this topic because it's there's a book, and I can't remember the name of it, but it talked about, and we see this so much in in real estate, where you've got people that were a fantastic property manager, a fantastic BDM, and everyone goes, Oh, you should, you know, go and do it on your own. And it's because that person has worked so hard inside the you know the business, they go, Why am I working so hard for someone else when I can do it for myself? So they go, everyone tells them they should go out on their own. So they go out on their own. And then, like you said, all of the business stuff happens. And in addition, the phone also doesn't ring straight away, but they're like, But the phone rang all the time because I was like the top property manager or the top BDM. And it's uh yeah, it really is imposter syndrome that we get from that, and it can put you in a really bad downward spiral of thinking of you know, think thoughts of regret. Why did I do this? It would have just been easier. And I love I love this model. I hadn't heard of it since before I'd I met with you, but I think this is really the future of property management, really.

SPEAKER_01: 26:17

I mean boutique agencies, standalone property management only businesses, you know, that are focused on one thing. Like I have absolutely no interest. I'm not gonna say never, but definitely not in my career to date of doing sales. Yeah. Like I love property management, I love everything to do with it. It's really strategic. And I love getting right into that with my clients. And I kind of just apply the same principle when I'm, you know, showing someone the possibilities for having their own business. And I use my business as the case study. Yeah. Like you want to see my property, me, you want to see inside my zero, you want to see what my overheads were in my forecasting spreadsheet. Like, here it is. Yeah. And I didn't get it all right. Like I've recently just restructured a few softwares and gone with different ones because you know, I was just so used to this is what you use. And then I've transitioned to another one that is just so user-friendly. And now I'm like, guys, you need to have a demo of this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 27:28

Yeah, totally. I mean, and I'm also thinking, I'm sure you already do this as well, but then being an independent boutique where you're in control of your business, but with the support of, you know, like I'm gonna call it the network, I'm gonna call it a membership. Sort of it's because that's what it is, membership.

SPEAKER_01: 27:46

It's great, it's not an it's not an icky franchise model or anything like that. There's no terrible-looking contracts, it's a membership.

SPEAKER_02: 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:56

And whether that's a membership for you for your custom branding or the plug and play zebra property management branding, it's a membership and we're a team and our network of agents, they are really all so supportive, even though they might be competitors in their area. If someone needs a hand and they post in our members-only Facebook group, they the recommendations and the help just come flooding in.

SPEAKER_03: 28:23

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 28:24

Yeah. Because I'm thinking as well, like skeptical.

SPEAKER_03: 28:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 28:29

But I'm yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 28:30

I'm also thinking, like, you know, I I know that the agents agencies have like lots of sales-only, you know, people. So it's sort of like, you know, you all stay in your own lane, but then you can still have an an affiliate with one of your favorite sales-only places, and you still can share and you know, refer and all of that, but you just stay in your own lane. This is mine, that's yours, and we'll cross-refer.

SPEAKER_01: 28:58

I have three agents who we work really closely together in Queensland and their sales-only businesses, to the point that they actually trust me to have like they feed their sales inquiries and and data into my CRM so that I can funnel it to if they're an investor, you know, start marketing to them, et cetera. Because they know that if any inkling of a sales inquiry comes from that data or from any clients they've referred, I'm straight on the phone and they know they're getting that back.

SPEAKER_03: 29:35

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's so good. And and it's sort of it also is like it's a win-win for everyone because that sales department, so that sales um agency can still feel and act like they've got a property manager to like, you know what I mean? So to the to the client, it probably looks like they've got it all sorted out because they're taking control of it, even though it's the the companies are separate, but they're still able to offer that full service, and you're able to still offer a full service, except you're just part, you know, getting someone from there to call for the sale, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01: 30:11

Yeah, absolutely. And it is because they know, you know, they just know when when you get to know them and you break down those walls with sales agents and you can win their trust. And if they see you do the same thing and treat them and then treat their clients that way, you know, once you have one or two that run through the model and raving fans about the service that they got from their specialized property management business that's helping this sales agent. They just flood you with referrals.

SPEAKER_03: 30:51

But but even like for an independent having like at the moment, let's say you are someone who wants to start your own business, option one, you could start a franchise, but I don't think many people, not solopreneurs, they're not doing that as much these days because I don't think it's worth it. They tend to be boutique. But when they are, they are starting from scratch and they will need to then make those make those relationships with other completely independent, where you guys have got the benefit of that network. So you are still a little bit insular that you yeah, you do still have that, which is going to be a bit more of a warm lead to create the referring, yeah, get the referring relationships up. So you've sort of got like a leg up as as opposed to someone who just doesn't have the connections to that same network. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:43

And the thing is with my role within agents agency, because anything kind of high-level property management comes to me, even if you know, Australia-wide for the businesses. So even if someone was to come aboard in, you know, Victoria or New South Wales or South Australia, I have already dealt with the agents there on some level to then give them a warm introduction. Like here's X, Y, and Z, they're just starting their business with us, they specialise in property management only, you know, XYZ here are three sales-only businesses who are within your area. And I've can you guys all grab a coffee at some stage and get to know each other? Yeah. Because the sales agents want the best for their clients.

SPEAKER_03: 32:29

Oh, yeah, totally. The and and don't don't mention anything sort of about actual costings because people can reach out to you if they want to find out a little bit more about that detail. But what I would I just want to check, I would imagine that as an independent office that wasn't associated with this, you from a cost point of view, I don't think it's gonna cost them any more because they're gonna have to either be independent and have go independently to go get all their subscriptions or join this idea where they have a there's a shared cost. So it may be the same, it may be cheaper. Less, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 33:08

It costs them less.

SPEAKER_01: 33:10

So it's financially a good idea as well.

unknown: 33:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:13

So like without putting exact dollar figures on it. So when I started this business to show and I started it as a I'm just gonna show that it works and that it's viable. Um now I just am like, no, this is mine. Yeah, so for less than a thousand dollars a month, I had my overheads covered.

SPEAKER_03: 33:35

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 33:37

Working from home, obviously. Yeah, but for a startup, like and that's that's everything. So that's the membership with with us, that's auditing, insurance, you know, property me, inspection express, like all of the things I wanted to use, I didn't skimp. Yeah. And I was just like, we just need management.

SPEAKER_03: 33:59

Where so if you were like if we were just to throw out a figure and just you know, just because it's early in the morning, but call it, you know, 10,000 a year, let's just say like, and it's more a little bit might be a little bit more than 10,000, but let's just use 10,000 as like just a toking token figure. It's like you could potentially have your first 12 months, like if you go, okay, I'm gonna put a sign 10,000 or 20,000, for example, for my cost for the year, that could potentially be how much it could start be to start a business for the first 12 months, and then you can just get on and like you said, get that growth. So it would help people from a budget point of view, because what I am seeing with a lot of new people that do start off independently is they just start off with the bare minimum. They just start off with their property, me, and then you okay, when I get to this many properties, I'll then go get inspection express. And when I get to this many, I'll get this. So I love that you said that because it's like you you didn't skimp, you've got everything from day one to really leverage.

SPEAKER_01: 35:00

I was not going without a 360 camera and an AI integration. I can tell you that, right?

SPEAKER_03: 35:05

You're being a s you're being a snob.

SPEAKER_01: 35:07

Well, I hey, I've been in the industry that long. I say, and I sound so funny. Like my kids laugh at me when I'm like, these bloody kids today, they have no idea how good they've got at doing an entry condition report. And they don't. Like when I first started, it was a carbon copy situation, and then we went to like a you know, writing it down and we carried around a digital camera on our wrist, and then it went to a bit of a dictaphone situation with the digital camera. Like, yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not going back there. Having the 360 camera and I'm having the AI integration because I see more value in you know, helping more clients, obviously. Um, but I'm juggling this business around a couple of other contracts that I do, like with agents, agency, etc. So my diary is my life, and I squeeze every ounce of the day and around my kids and their appointments and school drop-off and school pickup. And you know, my daughter will tell you that she spent many school holidays at the LJ Hooker office, yeah, you know, and she's 17 now, but you know, like, no, I'm not skimping. Um, my recommendation is to anyone is not to skimp, is to just work out what your overheads are, work out that before you, you know, go and quit your job or whatever you've got to do, and just know this is what I need. Like with Agents Agency, whether you do the zebra model or something more custom, we have the graphic designers, we have the team who knows how to launch a business, we have SEO optimized websites that are included in the membership fee, you know, for a really small overhead for zebra, you're getting a Josh Cobb Steps website. Yeah. So, you know, it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_03: 37:09

So good. And and not only that, like you, I think, are someone incredibly knowledgeable in in this space. And I I know that you host some of the coffee convos for me over in Queensland. I mean, what I am just in my mind straight away thinking is please, please, please reach out to Jody if you someone who is thinking that they want to step out of their role and into business ownership. Because, you know, as as Jodie was saying, you yes, you've got you know the costings, but then you've got someone who is like a mentor to you that can help you make sure you've ticked off all the things you need to do from a business side. She's done it before, she can be an amazing support and you know, work alongside you and and all of that as well. And it'll be great to sort of see the I find like with the coffee convos around Australia, they are all a little bit different. So, like we've got some areas where they tend to just be like more referring partners that attend as opposed to property managers. We've got some in WA where they're commercial and driven, some of them are BDM driven. And that what I would love is for you to be having one that is driven by by people that are either small business owners, like on their own independent, or people that want to be in that space to surround them with. I just think that that would be such a valuable coffee convos to set up. And I would love for yeah, anyone that is even curious about this space to reach out to Jody, find out when she's next going to have a coffee. She'll book one in, you know, for a group of you. I'm I'm sure I'm speaking on your behalf. Is that okay to say?

SPEAKER_01: 38:49

That's completely fine. And I was just gonna say I'm quite often Sunshine Coast, down in Brisbane, down to the Gold Coast, because my job with Agents Agency kind of takes me everywhere, which allows me to obviously have part referral partners everywhere. Like I'm happy to, you know, jump in with any of the existing coffee and combos as well. If you think like you would love to catch up with me, like I'm happy to jump in with other people to say, like, yeah, I can come to that to talk with you. And I just think the coffee and conversations, I just wish something like that was around when I was a newbie to the industry because there is just a really beautiful collaboration, no judgment. Like when I first started in the industry, it's almost like you walked out the front of your office and you would like death staring the agency across the road and you wouldn't dare go have lunch together. It was really weird. And I just love that we all, no matter where we're from or what we do, we all just sit down and like talk, like and it's it's almost like you've known these people your whole life. Yeah, because it's there's not even a weird pause or an awkward conversation, it just flows.

SPEAKER_03: 40:05

And the number of people that have said that exact same thing to me, people that have had businesses when they're young, something happened, burnt out, separation, they've you know gone out of it, or maybe they've gone and had children even, and then they've come back into it and they've always said the same thing. If PM Collective had coffee convos back then, I wouldn't have felt the need to step out of it. And the yeah, the convos are great. So, so do do reach out to Jodi if that is is yeah, if you're even curious. So she'll either say to you, yep, I'm gonna be at this coffee convo's, meet me there, and we'll you know sit and have a chat. And then, but if you sort of are thinking no, you'd like something a bit more, you know, private or a bit more custom, and there's a few people, like Jodi will set something up for you, uh, independence of coffee convos where she can talk to you guys a bit more about it. And I think in those smaller groups, you know, of maybe three to five people, it's a really nice, intimate number, a small number of people where you guys can just all chat together. Okay, well, this is what I'm worried about. I just as opposed to the big groups, so I don't want people to be turned off thinking, oh, I'm curious, but I don't want to go and tell other people what I'm thinking of doing. If you don't have to, you can just reach out to you know to yourself and you will say, No, no, let's just catch up and we'll go through it all because you've been there.

SPEAKER_01: 41:23

Because I feel like the second they feel comfortable, they'll just come anyway. Yeah, yeah. Um, and you know, it's a huge win for our industry and any business owners who aren't allowing their staff to attend, who want to attend, like you're on notice because like you just need to embrace this. Like, please come, come to one, like come to one as the business owner and see how collaborative they are, and and then just let your staff have that support.

SPEAKER_03: 41:56

Yeah. So it's like I say it's like a bad relationship, a bad marriage if you are a boss not letting you're controlling someone. It's like controlling your wife not to go out with her friends when you control your staff not to go out to these comments. Because it's it's in my mind, it's arrogant to think that you're not gonna get more out of it. You are going to get more benefit out of your team going to a coffee convo's, having some casual learning and education and and better energy, and come back to your office. They're going to come back with more than what they're left with.

SPEAKER_01: 42:32

Absolutely. And they'll come back happy and bubbly and telling you everything they've learned. But also the great thing is you didn't just spend$300 on a training session for that to happen. It's like a free network event with no strings attached, no hidden agendas. And we have some great like sponsors and partners through PM Collective that you know sometimes will pay for coffees, even you know, there's been times at mine where I've just shout at the coffees because it just kind of everyone was like, Oh, thank you so much. Like, I can't wait to see you next month. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 43:13

And that's that's what we find as well. Like, yeah, if someone is got see if someone's just gonna have to get coffees, I'll just go, does anyone else need a coffee? And then they just buy them, and it's just I I love that that casualness. Oh, let me grab them today, or otherwise. I mean, sometimes people can get their own, depending on how they come along. But that's I love that. And I what was I gonna say about the um oh sorry? Sorry, because I go on a bit of a tangent when I find out that people haven't let their staff go to their team go.

SPEAKER_01: 43:44

It again, that's falling on deaf deaf ears because it's like a little red flag, like a red rag waved in front of me. I'm like, no, you need to value your staff and let them go and have a voice.

SPEAKER_03: 43:56

And yeah, well, and when you said you're on notice, that gave me shivers. Do you know why? Because you are on notice if you are that person, because I'm gonna tell you, and and saying that, sales agents aren't listening to my podcast, but if you are someone who is not letting your team, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna let them in on a secret of what I'm planning that will solve this problem, and I'm going to look after your team if you're not gonna look after your team. And I'm just finding my notes on this because I had a discussion with my partner the other day. So my partner is who my T's and C's person, so I have an idea, and then I'm like, can you just like give me all the risks? The filter, correct? Okay, so here's my notes on this topic. I didn't I didn't know what this was referring to, but we're I think we're gonna call it a speakeasy Saturday. And I said to him, like, what's speakeasy? And he said something about back in like the 1920s, there was speakeasies where it was like underground because people weren't allowed a drink or something through the prohibition or something. Okay, and they called it a speakeasy, so it was like a private supper club where no one knew, but they sort of that's where they all had a had a drink, and it was called a speakeasy. And I was like, that's what PM Collective needs, a speakeasy Saturday. So what will happen? And Jody, I might even have you be this person for Queensland. There'll be a speakeasy Saturday morning, and it will no, it won't be advertised. There'll be no photos at the at the coffee convos, and it's a Saturday, and it's your own time, and you don't need to tell your employer what you do on a Saturday, and you're going to message me confidentially, and I'm going to give you the location and the time and the person who you're meeting, and they can have a coffee convos that no one's going to know about.

SPEAKER_01: 45:56

I love that. Yeah. And it can almost be a cocktails and combos, like we can mix this up because who doesn't love a late Saturday afternoon drink?

SPEAKER_03: 46:05

That's right. There's a lot of cocktails and combos coming up. For 2026.

unknown: 46:10

I know.

SPEAKER_03: 46:10

That's but that's going to end up probably taking over the coffee and conversations. But that's what we're going to do. So if they are people that can't get out, and actually, do you know what? Maybe if you're listening to this recording and you are working for someone who doesn't let you go out. I had someone the other day where they had to take annual leave to go out to a coffee conversation.

SPEAKER_01: 46:31

That breaks my heart.

SPEAKER_03: 46:32

If that is someone that that if you are experiencing that.

SPEAKER_01: 46:36

If you want your own business, you call me and I'll that's right.

SPEAKER_03: 46:39

Yeah, that's right. Option one is that. Option two, it's like having that code word on the back of the toilets at the restaurant. If you are in an unsafe situation, just mention Karen at the at the bar and they will call you an Uber. Well, we are giving you that code word for that safe situation. If you are in that situation, you just send me. Maybe the code word you can send me is speakeasy, and I will confidentially sort this out for you so that you get to access it in your own time that no one knows about. Like I said, no photos, no advertising, nothing is going to be published about it. It's just a private speakeasy conversation.

SPEAKER_01: 47:20

And that's probably the thing about my coffee and combos I forget the most is I forget to take the photos to have the social proof because I'm so busy trying to talk to everyone and like, or you know, and whatever's going on, but I'm like, oh, it's almost like you know, at the birthday party or the Christmas and for your kids, and then you're like, Oh, I didn't get the photos, so I was so busy doing the moment.

SPEAKER_03: 47:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_01: 47:47

That's right.

SPEAKER_03: 47:48

Well, there won't be any photos at these ones because these are that'll be good because when I say I'm putting them on notice, like there's more cost-effective solutions.

SPEAKER_01: 48:01

These people aren't going to be trapped in your business. I don't know that sounds really controversial, but it's said with kindness, like they have options these days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 48:10

And you can be stuff, and with the energy of, you know, you know, energy, like your energy or my energy, and people really giving people confidence. Like, so as a business owner, you just make sure that you're giving your team as much confidence and energy that you are capable of doing so that you are offering them the very best workplace so they don't feel the need to do this because they're only going to think of running their own business if there is a gap that you are that you are missing, if you are not, you know, servicing them in any any way. So it's not at yeah, at the end of the day, if they were to go start their own business, it's because they're lacking something where they are. So, as a business owner, if you're worried about that, you just make sure that you know what other options they do have and make sure that you are giving them the very best opportunity of working with a team, working in an office, you know, because you could argue both ways. You could argue the benefit of working for yourself, but you could argue the benefit of being in a team and being able to take annual leave without worry.

SPEAKER_01: 49:19

Yes, and sometimes it's lonely. You know, there's been days where I might just send a bulk text to everyone in my rent role, and I'm like, I'm so sorry. You know, one of my kids is down with gastro. You know, don't worry about direct messaging today in the app or anything. If you've got something urgent or you need me, straight to my mobile, please. Send a smoke signal and I will come to you. But the benefit of, like you say, I had an appointment booked on that day, I have so many great connections now through agents agency, through coffee and combos. I could call in a favor and be like, I'm so sorry. Could you please do this open hope for me? Or could you, like, if it really was life or death, like we we've got it covered.

SPEAKER_03: 50:11

Yeah, absolutely. And and yeah, we sort of run the same. We've had situations where there's a small group of us where it's like, I really need help with something north of the river and I'm south of the river. And it's like, yeah, no worries, I'll get my team to do that for you. And I I love that, it's so good, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 50:27

Yeah, it's it's great because there's no longer that them and us mentality, and I just think, yeah, after obviously growing up in the industry through that, like it's fantastic now. Yeah, that the next wave of our generation don't need to witness that.

SPEAKER_03: 50:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 50:48

Or don't even need to experience it.

SPEAKER_03: 50:50

Yeah, no, 100%. Now it's been great chatting. I think I think we've done it's like been like a little console brainstorming session. So we should do it more often.

unknown: 50:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 51:00

Now, before we go, one last question, because people can reach out to you on Instagram if they just want to, yeah, pick your brain, catch up one-on-one, catch up as a group, curious about more. And your Instagram handle is Zealous Property.

SPEAKER_00: 51:17

The the Zealous PM.

SPEAKER_03: 51:19

The Zealous PM. Big question to finish up. So the Zealous P M. The Zealous P M?

SPEAKER_00: 51:26

The Zealous PM. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 51:28

Excellent. So P and that's Z-E-A-L-O-U-S.

SPEAKER_01: 51:33

So they can just Jodie Hingston on Facebook.

SPEAKER_03: 51:36

Yeah, amazing. Um, so they can reach out to you if they do want to just connect and find out a bit more. But my question is the Zealous PM, what's the meaning behind the name?

SPEAKER_01: 51:51

So like everyone, I think choosing a company name is or business name is probably what I found the hardest because I don't feel like I'm very creative. And after months and months of just using, you know, business name chatbots and things and Google and chat GPT, couldn't come up with anything. And then one day I was like zealous, meaning like abundance, and you know, I was like, that's it. I'm like, I've got abundance, I've got growth, I've got and I was like, that's it, Zealous Property Group. And then I traded Zebra property management, and it was like my two little babies came together because I loved the branding, and then I had like my love of my company name, and here we are.

SPEAKER_03: 52:45

Okay, so I so I wasn't sure whether the Z E in Zealous was something to do with Zebra. That just happened to you. But I don't know how that works.

SPEAKER_01: 53:04

Like no, so zealous is kind of like means like abundance, energy, enthusiasm, like you're in like pursuit of something. Yeah, love it, yeah. Love it, excellent. And it just came to me, probably in the shower where all the great ideas come to everybody.

SPEAKER_03: 53:25

Yeah, absolutely. So good. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you today. We have done a longer than usual podcast, so no, no, no, it's totally fine.

SPEAKER_01: 53:35

So people might listen to these Kathy's together and give them a microphone. And that's right.

SPEAKER_03: 53:40

Well, I did say before you start talking, hold on, let's record and then we'll talk. So no, it's been really, really great to find out a bit more about you, but also just about the alternates that property managers have got or to work towards, because this is definitely something I think that's going to be a bit of a game change. I mean, it's been a it's been around, but I I don't think many people have uh maybe heard of it or know it's an option. So always being curious about what options are out there is what it's all about. So please reach out to Jody or myself if you've got any other questions, and we will both be very happy to help. Thank you for your time. I will see you soon.

SPEAKER_01: 54:15

Thank you. See you soon.