Outsourced BDMs And The Future

Natasha returns to share how MyBDM has grown and why the future of property management business development leans on partnerships, outsourcing and strong systems. We talk through what outsourced BDM support really looks like, how offshore VAs fit in and how to set expectations so consistency turns into conversions. 

• The case for partnerships and outsourcing to reduce burnout 
• Why remote agencies can compete without a traditional office 
• What an outsourced BDM can handle for new and established agencies 
• Lead generation, cold calling, social media and email campaigns as repeatable systems 
• Using CRM notes and a call-centre style mindset to scale service 
• Hiring offshore VAs via agencies vs direct on LinkedIn 
• Managing remote teams with daily check-ins and clear structure 
•Task-based VA roles vs assigning a VA per property manager 
•Next-generation work trends, portfolio careers and fractional roles 
• Setting realistic KPIs and focusing on consistent conversations over quick wins 

You can contact me via my email, natasha@mybdm.com.au. Check it out website, mybdm.com.au.

This podcast is sponsored by PropertyMe.

Australia's #1 Property Management Software. www.propertyme.com.au

This podcast is sponsored by Inspection Express. 

Inspection Express and Paperless Office is the leader in innovative, time saving property Inspection Software.

Property Management Software | Inspection Express & Paperless Office (ipropertyexpress.com)

Transcript

Welcome Back And Business Growth

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Very excited to have a guest return to the PM Collective podcast, and that is the lovely Natasha from my BDM. Welcome back, Natasha.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hello, it is great to be here, Mrs. Goodchild. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:17

I'm very, very well. I I am so glad that you are doing a podcast with me because I've had to do the last couple solo and I hate doing solo podcasts. So for me to have, you know, guests on is so much nicer. If I'm going to be very selfish, it's so much nicer for me. And so for those that are listening, if anyone is wanting to be a guest, you are absolutely doing me a favor by doing so. So please feel free to reach out and say, Ash, I'm going to help you out and do a podcast. You'd be helping me out amazingly. So I'll I'll start with that. But it's been probably what six months since we last chatted. Yes, about that, I'd like to say, I dare say six months. Time flies, doesn't it? What has been happening in your world? Because when you first came on, you I think it was yourself with maybe one offshore team member. And you I had, I think I had seen you just pop up randomly. And I was like, oh, this is an interesting concept. Let me let me find out a little bit more. And and it sounds like lots changed. So tell us all about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Oh my goodness. Do I have a lot of value in, Ash? And firstly, just going back to what you said before about wanting guests, be careful what you wish for, because I'll join you every week if you'd like. Remember that yeah. I'll be like, Natasha, no, no more. Yes, I'm always available for you, Ash. So thank you so much for having me again. I'm so excited to be here again. And oh boy, so much has happened in the last six months. Yes, you're right. It was just little old me and one other VA. And now I have somewhere between three and a half and four VAs now. And I have another BDM working with me also. And things are going well. Business is going great. Yeah, I think a lot of a lot has changed, a lot has evolved. And it's just been a really exciting and interesting journey so far. I've learned so much along the way in the last six months. And, you know, this is the first time that I am being a business owner as well, you know, even though I have managed several departments in the past, and it felt like, you know, I was I had that business owner role. I'm actually a business owner now. So yes, there is a lot of different things that I've learned along the way as well, having that title. But it's all good, it's all positive, things are going really well. And look, there are a lot of things I actually want to talk about here today.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

But before you do, just a real quick question with where when you first started your business and you were like, you know, in your mind, you probably would have been like, This is what I want. Where you are now, is that different, or is that exactly what you had set out for from day one? Or has has it, yeah, is it a has have has have things just happened where it's just gone into a different direction or more or less than what you wanted?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Uh honestly, I didn't even know what to expect. What I did know was there was a market and a niche for it. I didn't think that I would be where I am now as busy as I am. So yeah, probably better than expected. And yeah, that would be my answer. Better than expected. I didn't plan for this, but then again, having said that, I didn't really know where I was gonna go. And I just wanted to make sure that my service and everything that I offer is perfected, no matter where how many clients I've got or anything like that. I wanted to make sure that my service and what I offer is perfected and I know it, you know, to to the to the truth of everything that I do. If that makes sense.

The Future Of The BDM Role

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So now I'm I'm just trying to work out what we're going to talk about first. But I think that I think we're because I really want to talk about your offshore team, you know, things like where you found them and and what they're doing and how you've structured that. But before we get to that, I think what's probably really important is to understand and talk about the future of the BDM role and the future, you know, of some of the industry so that we can think about that and let that process first and then sort of get into how do we create a BDM or how do we create a real estate agency that is working towards what we believe is going to be the future. So what let's start with the future of BDM. What do you feel that looks like?

SPEAKER_00 4:42

So being one of the old timers as a property manager and now working through COVID and coming now and working as a remote agency as you as you would, I would say wholeheartedly that the future of BDM is partnerships outsourcing and utilizing these partnerships. Being in this journey, I have met some amazing, amazing companies that I have partnered with. And there are you know, there are services that you can utilize, such as you know, compliance and inspections, and you know, if a BDM or a property manager were to utilize all these partnerships, that would make a super agency. That would be just so it would really uh eliminate the chances of burnout, if you know what I'm saying. As a traditional property manager for how many years, 15 years, you know, I did everything we did everything, right? We did condition reports, routine inspections, we did the accounting side of things and maintenance. Now you can outsource maintenance. You can outsource so many things. And I feel like that is the future of BDM and PM is utilizing these amazing partnerships, the best of the best in what they do. You know, there's inspection uh companies and they are the best of the best of doing inspections. There is, you know, TARPY, maintenance there. They are the best of the best in maintenance. I don't want to say that there are so many great partnerships out there. And if we were to, you know, work with these guys and utilize them all, that would make the best property manager. That would make the best agency and BDM. That's what I believe.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

But where does it leave a property manager when we outsource it?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

I'm, you know, having said all this, and I really mean this, I'm not saying that a traditional property manager can't do it all and won't do it all. It just depends. Everyone is in a different boat, you know. There's a lot of agencies now that don't have an office. And I remember we were saying this last time. So if you don't have an office, this is what you do. This is how you structure your agency, you utilize and you outsource. But if you are a traditional property management agency with a property manager or a leasing manager and an inspection manager within your agency, that works as well. I have not downplaying that at all. But if you are in a position like I am and you're working remotely and you aren't able to go to inspections or, you know, any that's, you know, things like that, then that is where you can start partnering with these companies and utilizing all those different services and systems. But by no, by no means am I saying the traditional way of things isn't the future or isn't the right thing as well. I'm talking about that market, that that you know, that place where agencies can't find those traditional property managers, or they are remote. So, you know, that's the that's that's who I'm talking about. This is this is the the future for those people.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

So the analogy that comes to mind is is actually the beauty industry. And I I I love looking at different industries. And if we look at the beauty industry, you've got places where you've got your full beauty services, and then you've got people that specialise in lashes, people that specialise in eyebrows, people that specialise in nails, people specialize in waxing. And it's not suggesting that anyone is well, actually, you probably would say that the nail tech is better than the normal beautician. I actually wouldn't go to a normal beautician for my nails, I only go to a nail place. But you would I always reflect in different industries of how that looks and but also how there is still a need for everybody. It just means that you know, some people like going to one place, some people like the at home, some people like going to the luxury day spa for their nails, some people don't care going to the shopping center, which is where I go to get mine done because they they're really quick there. You know what I mean? Like we we still as a society have so many preferences of what we like. That's why it's never it's never taking it away from one business to the other because you're not choosing to go down this road, it's just giving people options, options, probably the options, absolutely, yes, and that's what I'm I mean to say because now I'm running a remote business now, so I'm finding different ways of doing different things.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So this is how I can see that this is a really good option for the future. So it's pretty awesome. And this is just would have never been the case years ago. It was just one way and one way only. And sometimes it's not a one-size-fiddle. That's in anything in life, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I think as well, like people can use that that as a point of difference. So you're gonna have people at the moment where they their point of so, and and this is because I'm and we're I'm talking like this because there's going to be people listening where they don't agree with what your opinion or my opinion is of the future and stuff like that. And I guess the way that I see it is that we all we all have our own idea of how we want to have a business or how um live our life, and and we will act on those points of differences. So for example, yes, there is probably no need for an office, but I would say my point of difference is that I do have an office with the classic window cards, and I play to that with my clients, but someone else might play to the fact of, oh well, we we don't believe in a traditional office because we work from home and that allows us to do A, B, and C. So you and with BDM, you can sort of out actually use outsourcing of routines. You could actually, as your point of difference, as a business owner, say, well, our point of difference is we do outsource because we believe in giving those services to the experts that do it every single day. And we we um our point of difference is that our property managers have better relationships. Yes. Yes, you could also do the whole point of difference of is we keep everything in-house.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

So there's no good and bad in both, absolutely, and it's just as good as one another, a hundred percent. And you know what? At the end of the day, you can never take away the traditional classical human connection that is always going to be number one as well. So, no, I commend that that traditional way as well. But coming from a remote business owner, I can definitely see the benefits in the outsourcing world. So it's really worked for me and it's just been an amazing journey so far. So I definitely want to sing that out to the world out there, to whoever, whoever's listening and who understands what I'm talking about, being remote and needing to lean on these experts. Um, it really does help if you utilize it correctly.

What An Outsourced BDM Does

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yeah, and and whoever that aligns to as well, like with their business journey. I think that the the BDM is such an interesting one. I mean, very, very positive because I I get the way that people might be hesitant with you know outsourcing inspections or using the remote inspection app, you know, for for clients. Like I understand all of that, but the BDM is actually probably, I feel like people will feel safer with that because it's not really directly affecting the day-to-day processes. It's like it's a a little bonus or a little it complements people that have already got a team, or maybe we see so many hybrid situations where the property manager is having to do growth as well, or maybe they they sort of see that they don't want to, they don't have the cost to pay for a BDM. But gosh, a BDM salary and outsourcing a BDM is absolutely investing money. Like I don't know why more people don't get it. If you don't get that, please call me 041-6352679, so I can tell you it is absolutely investing your money, whether yeah, it's with yourself, which would probably be a very safe option to do. So, can you talk to me a little bit about what what an outsourced BDM looks like to an office that maybe doesn't have a BDM at all at the moment? Or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Okay, so this is a very, very complex scale here when we're talking about remote BDM. Because as you know, there could be businesses that are just completely brand new, no referral system, no inquiries, no nothing. So as the remote BDM, you would be the one that does the lead generation. So we'd be utilizing the major platforms, the ID for me for the contact details, and that's where we would be organically bringing in the leads, and then obviously cold calling, email campaigns, utilizing social media. So that's all the stuff that we would do for them. If we had an established real estate agency and they had a CRM system that hadn't been touched or had been touched, and they needed follow-up or you know, filtering of it, email campaigns, social media campaigns, again, all of that stuff can be done from remotely. So again, just depending where your agency is, where your property management agency is, how much staff do you have, how much data do you have, if any, that's when we would come in, when I would come in and then you know, customize a plan to see how what we can do to scale your business, basically. So I guess it is very complex, and I hope I under I answered it the most simplest way possible.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah, so there's not there's not a there's not a one size fix fix all the time. It's it's just that it depends on yeah, what you need because I mean I I look at it with so many options. So maybe that there's someone that doesn't have the BDM at the moment, hesitant to bring on a BDM. So this would be a good option to get hypothetically get yourself to set up the systems, do it while you get to a bit of a bit of a process in a systems to allow someone to step into that role, maybe and and take over. You've also then though got offices where they might have two or three BDMs, but maybe you've got a BDM, like maybe you've got two or three BDMs, but no one that actually likes cold calling or doing the database. And then you'd be like, you know what, let's outsource a BDM to do that off the database because no one else wants to do it. Um you've got, but yeah, but then like I mean, I and if you don't do this, let me know. But like then it's sort of like, okay, well, I've got a BDM who's really good at the at the relationships and going out, but I need all the processes done the back end. So I want those e I want emails going out. I want maybe some admin done. I want I want her to have cover when she's on leave.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Like, I don't know, like that is your you're in the right mark. You're on the right mark there. So yes, absolutely. And you know, in the busy property management world, if you don't have a dedicated BDM, then who's doing all of this? It's such a complex thing. Like you know, there's social media, there's email campaigns, there's a database that's sitting there, there's incoming data. You know, who's filtering this incoming data and allocating it where it needs to go accordingly and then putting it on the pipeline, nurturing the pipeline. So this is where I found the niche of this business. This is something that, you know, I saw over the years as being a property manager and doing both of them at the same time. You know, it's very hard to be a busy property manager and also to do BDM as well, you know. So I guess I could either be your your dedicated BDM or I could be assisting an assistant BDM, assisting the BDM that's already in your office. So there is quite a lot that we can do.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

And the ideal would be the the person who's currently hybrid, to be honest, because I think this is the problem. A lot of businesses are like, you know, this person, you know, this property manager does our BDM as well. But there is no way in hell that someone, like you're gonna, as a business owner, they would probably still expect the full-time results from that person, and they're not gonna get it while they're drawn into property management, which is gonna have to take priority, unfortunately. So it's if you're if you're listening and that's your current setup, this, to be honest, is probably the best option because at least you've still got a property manager who maybe still doesn't mind doing some BDM. So, you know what, let them go do those face-to-faces that come up and and anything like that, but they'll work together with yourself and your team to at least to still have it's happening in the having it happen consistently in the back end so that it's not fluctuated by the business of property management.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

But yeah, yes, absolutely. And that's what it's about, isn't it? It's not like you know, as a prison property manager, you you'd have a list or you'd have a database and you know who you're calling and you know that you've got to follow them up. But you know, I I dare say that it it is very hard to create a plan and execute and stick to that plan of follow-ups and when to do things. And, you know, like it's very hard to, you know, property managers, we're all amazing and we can do about a million things at once, but sometimes things like this, we tend to put in the back burner. So, yes, this is where my service definitely helps our industry, I believe.

Finding Offshore VAs Agency Or Direct

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Yeah. Okay, so if our if the future of BDM or future of property management and real estate agencies is sort of really getting all those arms of outsourcing, which I think makes sense and sort of aligns with what my future thoughts are of the industry, and that I and I say this and people like like Ash know it's not going to be a call center, but I sort of use the call center model, which I actually think is actually quite good from the point of view that people like whether it's BDMs, property managers, get really, really good at their notes. Every conversation is a note in the system. Anyone that answers the phone can handle that, you know, property or what's going on with a property. Um it's like it just makes life so much easier when and we should all be doing that anyway. And like when a property manager is on leave, like I know that for me, I in property me, I always put those notes and tag that property manager in there if I've spoken to someone just so they know. Like that should be the the same. And so the outsourcing is sorry, that call center vibe that I think that we'll get to is really what is going to allow some of those really big agencies to get bigger and to scale. And I think then we'll have the smaller agencies, the lifestyle businesses, which where they manage 50 from home or 100 from home, I think we'll still have that. But I think that we will find that the call center style is actually a really, really good thing for our clients. I think that as well, because I do believe that the next generation of people coming, you know, and just you know, just like I look at my my kids who are teenagers, the next generation, I don't think they're going to want to be strapped down to a nine to five job. I feel like they're gonna want flexibility. They're going to maybe have what I call portfolio careers where they do two days here, one day there. Maybe they work in property management three days a week for this company and two days at my BDM. So true. So true. We have to have that call center, note, like really good at note-taking type situation with the outsourcing, because that is the next generation. So then if we bring it right back down to go, okay, well, if you know the teenage, our teenagers these days, what what are they gonna want? And if they're not gonna want to have those traditional roles, we need to stop providing like the traditional opportunities for them, which brings us into the offshore team and sort of maybe the flexible partnerships as well. So let's talk about let's talk about outsourcing. How and the first question I want to ask you is did you use a company to outsource or have you gone direct?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

I have done both, to be honest. So I have done both and essentially got the same result for both. And, you know, luckily I was actually, you know, most people probably get contacted via LinkedIn uh to for VA jobs. Okay, and I took a few on LinkedIn. Yeah, honestly. And I took a few on and you know, I was a little bit hesitant just because, you know, just to make it formal. I didn't know, you know, I've never done this before. You know, do I go through an agency just to make it formal? Am I, you know, where am I sending my money? Like, you know, just we're we're just just weary of what the right thing to do is. So I done both and I got the result the same results. And then I hired a few more. Again, they reached out to me in LinkedIn, and I was fortunate to find some really good ones. And they have just been incredible. The work ethic that they have, that my team have is just spectacular. I am just so, so just just a moment for them, just a moment for the VAs. I I just can't commend them. They are just amazing. If you have structured the right system in place with them, they will be able to help you and your business in so many ways. I feel like you do need to be strong in direction and structure for them to be able to follow. But other than that, once it's implemented and you're executing it every day, you know, I've just been very blessed with my VAs and I'm very close with them and I speak to them every day. And I've got a really, really good team and I'm really proud of them. So just a moment for them.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

It's amazing. Yeah. I um I I ask because a lot of people ask me, you know, about the VAs. And I have got, I'm the same, like, you know, I've got one through an agency, another couple through a different agency because they're in they're not Philippines, they're South Africa. And then I've got quite a few that are private, which again, I also found them, or they found me through LinkedIn. So the people that are wanting to actively look on LinkedIn, you just put in a search bar virtual assistant real estate or something like that, and you'll see them pop up there. They send you through a resume, you do your normal Zooms and you do all that. And um, and I have had immense luck doing that. And I agree with you. I actually, to be honest, haven't I can't tell you the difference between which one's through an agency and which one is private, except for the price point, uh, if I'm completely honest. But you know, but they are in terms of the quality, 100%. If anything, I would probably say I've got more loyalty with my private ones.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Me too, me too. And just the work ethic and respect that you you get from them, that's what I really appreciate the most, you know. They and it's like it makes me happy that we're helping these countries as well. You know, we're giving them this work. So it's like a really good partnership, you know, they're helping us, and we're helping them too. And it's really beautiful.

Managing VAs With Daily Connection

SPEAKER_02 23:58

How do you how do you look after your VAs? You said that you speak to them every day. Like, what's your uh method of contact? Do you have meetings? Like, what does the management of that look like?

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I think having a remote business, you need to be very involved. And I'm very obviously I'm very hands-on in my business. I'm I'm the client, I client, I face my clients, I'm on the phone, always to everybody every day. I am so in tune with my team. We catch up probably nearly once a day. We're always on Teams Messenger. And yeah, like as structured as things are, we bounce off each other every single day. So we do Teams catch-ups, you know, the one what we're doing at the moment. We do messaging, emails. We're just yeah, very much involved. And I think that having a remote business, you'd probably need to be, you know, and that's not just about VAs, it's about any worker. I feel like, you know, we're still a baby business too. So we're still, I'm still growing and restructuring and changing every and growing every single day. So I'm I'm heavily involved in my team.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah, we um actually today had our first ever virtual coffee morning. I saw that. How did it go? Do you know what? I felt I feel like a you know, a big kid. I I felt like a real true business owner, even though I've had my business for 20 years. I felt like I'd made it because I had this like, you know, this photo of the team. I know it's that's really weird to say, but I feel like that every day. Do you know? I actually really, really liked it. And I said to Marissa, I'd like to see this every month because there is a lot of our team, because we look after such a vast area, a lot of some of our team hadn't even met each other because there's no need for them to because like they're two hours away, but also because sometimes like our social events, they're not always compuls, they're not compulsory. So sometimes people come, sometimes they don't. They only need to come into the office for half a day each each week. So we actually don't we find a lot of our team work from work from home. So it was actually just really nice for me to see everyone's faces in in on one screen. I loved it. And I definitely do want to see that more so. But this is the thing with with offshore, whether you've got an offshore team or an onshore team, yeah. Yes, you're still gonna connect with each other. Like there's actually no difference. Like, I honestly would probably see my offshore team more than what I do, my onshore team, you know, that's the reality.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Absolutely, and connection, you know, and I said this to my team this morning, actually, as well. It's I, you know, we're just we're so close personally as well. We we work with each other every day. I work, we work full time, and it's important to have that connection as well, you know. I'm a big believer in work culture as well, and you know, getting along with everybody in your team and you know, working with good people, and you know, you want to wake up happy every day, you know? And that's that's really big for me. And I always want my team to be happy with the way things are going with me as well. And I'm always saying, you know, if there's anything you don't like, or please just be honest, let's be transparent. We can always change and grow together. But work culture and getting along and good connection is really important for me. And even before I had this business, it's just yeah, it's always been important to get along with the people that you work with. Oh, for sure.

Task-Based Vs Client-Based VA Support

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Absolutely, absolutely. So, with your offshore team, have you got them all specializing in something separately? Or do you so do you attach their role to a task or their role to a client, if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

As we're growing and changing every day, this answer changes a lot. Yeah, at the moment, it's tasks, it's a lot of background tasks. And so, yeah, I would spread that out accordingly. So at the moment it's tasks, not clients, but we may be moving towards that structure where a VA would handle the administration and tasks for certain clients. At the moment, it's just tasks and kind of learning a little bit about everything and structuring ourselves for the future. So when more clients come, we know you know what to do and and how to do it, basically. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah. And the only reason why I ask is because with our team, we I had this idea in mind that I wanted to have one VA per property manager, and that's what we've got at the moment. Yeah. And I really want that VA to really work closely. I want the property manager to train them more, like to take off as much as they can. And I really want them to have that really close relationship. So even when then the property manager goes on leave, their their VA looks after everything for them. Good idea. And that's what I had in mind. But I sort of like, I don't know what, like someone told me that as you get bigger, that sometimes it's better for the VA to be attached to a task. So then I'm sort of like, do I just have one that does lease renewals, one that just does arrears, one that just does it. And I and I don't, I don't know. I just like speaking to people with how they've got it structured. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

There's good and bad in both ways, Ash, honestly. And for me, I feel like, you know, every property manager has a different kind of style of the way they do things as well. Not to say they're not doing everything this the right way, but everyone does things a little bit differently. And for a VA to be attached to a property manager, I feel like that that would be the best way to go, in my personal opinion. And I feel like that's the going to be the structure of us moving forward as well. For now, it's tasks because we're quite young still, but I feel like, you know, in the future, if I get enough clients, maybe I'll have a client of VA as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

But I think your idea is amazing. Well, maybe you might get a client that says, Natasha, I I want to have just one just for me. Like, and then I guess then you can sort of say, okay, what would that look like? I think that like now that I'm now that I'm thinking about it to myself, and this is these these sessions are like a good for me to vocalize what's in my brain and and think out loud. But now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, actually, Ash, there is nothing wrong, like there is nothing that's happening at the moment for me to feel like there needs to be a change. I'm being influenced by someone else who said that that's what they did, but actually it's it's not broken. So why am I it why am I even entertaining the idea of it? And and that's probably the reason why I say that out loud is because it's probably what a lot of us do in in business is that we hear all these different ideas and oh, maybe I should be doing that, maybe I should be doing that. But if I actually think about it, it's working as it is. Why am I even working? Yeah, why am I contemplating? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Yeah, no, if it's working, leave it, you know. And that's my opinion. But I can understand why the people would say that in in a sense, but in in my opinion, I would go with what you're doing as well. Yeah, I think it just makes so much more sense to me.

Fractional Roles And Next-Gen Careers

SPEAKER_02 30:51

But you're right, there's there's there's always pros and cons with everything, and that's why you've got to be pretty strict and like secure with what your decisions are and then roll with it. Okay, so you've got your offshore team, which is great. Do you think, or is there a goal to have someone like, okay, I sell my business and I go, Natasha? I've sold my business and I love doing BDM and I'd love to come and be a remote BDM for you. Please. Are you still? I don't know if I can afford you, Ash, but if you want to come along, I'd love that. Oh my goodness. Because we've talked about my BDM for the benefit of businesses, but what about the benefit for BDMs out there wanting a different role? Is that crossed your mind?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yes, definitely. I mean, we're still at a very young baby stage, but absolutely, I would love to have that in the future, to have a team of BDMs working with me and helping me with clients and having their own clients. And I would love that so much. That would be amazing. But first, I need to get there.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Yeah, but well, maybe that'll happen in the next six months and so much if happens in the next month. Maybe, maybe. But this is like, I think I don't know whether you you heard the term fractional, but you know, fractional, fractional like GM or a fractional EA or a fractional BDM, for example, could potentially be something that could be a bit of a future of the industry because it'll be like, yeah, someone, you know, someone who might go, I was like me, for example, I don't want to pay, nor do I feel like my business needs a full-time general manager. But having a fractional one probably could be something, somewhat of a benefit. So I wonder whether, and again, just bringing it back down to what the next generation's gonna want to look for, is that something that our next generation are gonna be wanting, where they do just work nine till 12 for an office or just a couple of days for as a BDM to I don't know, just throwing ideas out there.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

So true. You know what? When I was listening to you talk about the children and the next generation, and I could not agree with you more. You know how things are like in your mind, and then when someone says it and it's like, oh my god, that's so true. I cannot see the future of these generations working nine to five the way we used to do it. It's just not there. And when I was in the office a few years ago when we'd be hiring these younger generations, I don't know, the work ethic has changed. The work ethic has changed and like completely 360 and a lot can't handle full-time. And I'm this is not to say anything bad about anybody in any way, shape, or form. This is just my journey and what I've experienced. And all the young recruits that I have seen in the lot in the recent years just could not handle full-time, just couldn't handle it, and uh repetitive work as well. So that's why when you said call center, different, you know, rotating portfolio career, I think you hit the nail in the heads of the future as well, because I can't, even my children, my children are 10 and 7, so I cannot see them doing what we did nine to five for how many years, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

And the um, and like you know, people are gonna be quick and go, oh, like you know, these days they're not gonna they're not being taught a good work ethic. And I want to share with you my experience. I would say, and without, you know, you know, patting myself on the back too much, I would say I've got a very, very good work ethic. I I oo work ethic, I work hard, I my kids see me work hard. Like they I there is nothing that I could do anymore to show a good work ethic. And I have a daughter who is 16 who got her first job at Yochi, and she was pissed off. She had to wipe pot plants as you know, one of her jobs. And she wanted to quit and she didn't like a manager. And I said, Well, you've got to find another job before you quit because that's what you do. You don't just quit, you find another job. And no, she quit a job. And so when people say, you know, about teaching, I say to them that it's actually not as easy as that because I do ooze that, yet the generation are so influenced by their friends and other people, not just their parents these days, that it's really, really hard to have to be their 100% influence.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Absolutely. The environment, the TV, the shows, everything around is completely different. Look at the way we grew up, look at the way they're growing up, it's completely different.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

That's right. We weren't influenced by by lots of other things, mainly just our parents. So yeah, it's it's a it's a big factor. And she well, she's actually just been offered a well, she's been offered two jobs now, which is great. She's just been um offered a job at my skin therapist, which is great on Saturday mornings, but she actually just had an interview this morning for Coles and she messaged me to say she got it. So she gave it a job right there and then. But what she did say to me is yeah, it's congratulations for me, not her, because it means that she's got to have some extra money. So, but but what she did say, and I felt like I always listen really carefully to what kids are sort of wanting. So what she said to me was that mum, I want, I don't want to be casual and have them every week tell me what I've got to work each week. I just want them to tell me set hours. She goes, I don't care what it is, but I just want them to say, Millie, you're gonna be working every Monday, Tuesday after school. She didn't like the idea of being told and it to be random, and then how is she meant to organize her own her own social life? Yes and I I do respect that, and I get how that would be quite stressful for someone not knowing what they're gonna be working each week. So I said to her, Listen, well, that's a fair thing that you could ask in an interview if there is an opportunity to have set times per week so that you can, you know, and be organized. So she she did that, which is good. So that's my experience with with her, and I don't think for her as well, like she was more excited at the fact that she's gonna have Saturday mornings at this place, Monday, Tuesdays at this place, whatever it may be. And so you've got that type, which again is what we call in that portfolio career. I mean, to be honest, if if I had a choice of being like a business owner for two days a week and then going and working at my local pub as a waitress, which is actually my dream FYI, my fantastic job, I would take that in a heartbeat. I would be on living life. Like I would love it. So true. I just I know I would have retired till I can, you know, wait till I retire to become that waitress that I want. But it's like that's so, so now, so whatever that truth is for us, and like whatever we're thinking there, then how are we designing our businesses to or our industry to accommodate that? Yeah, and yeah, and I don't think we're doing that well now.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Very good conversation. It is it's so true, and I think that's why so many parents are so worried about their children and the future, but because of this, because the work ethic has changed so much. And I really don't have the answer to that, Ash, but I do think that we're onto something here when with our industry at least, because we know that we what we can chop and change to make it enticing for the younger ones, definitely. So it's different every day, and we all know that property management can definitely offer that. Very good. Yeah, you can do something different every single day.

Work From Home Balance And Productivity

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Absolutely. I um I think that, yeah, I'm just just trying to sort of think, like with me. I mean, I guess the first steps that businesses naturally take, and we all are sort of getting there, is that work from home balance. We have still so many officers that are that are not doing it. And you know what? Of all people, you can speak to you know Michelle Riggin Perth, and she'll tell you, I was stubborn, like I was not into working from home. Like she knows it's taken me many a debate to get to this point, and we still laugh about it today, but it has taken me a while. However, like I actually also I won't share a name, but one of my teams this morning had said to me, Ash, I'm really struggling with my work life balance at the moment. And I was like, I mean, she works from home every day of the week and she's struggling. And I love I love that my team feel comfortable having that conversation with me so that because I love understanding where people are coming from. And I think that that's we really need to talk more and listen to to people. And it's like, you know, with my daughter, I might not agree with them, but it's still important that I listen to her side of the story so I can understand where they're coming from. And so with with this lady, she was like mine struggling with my work life balance. And I was like, I actually don't know what to say, like because you have full autonomy, and if you're putting, if you're feeling pressured, that pressure's coming from you personally because it's not coming from me. Yeah, you're putting that on yourself. So I sort of coaxed her through a couple of ideas with maybe different hours. Maybe she goes for a two, if she starts early, she goes for a two-hour lunchtime walk, or maybe she changes her hours from seven till three, or I don't know, maybe something like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

But we're interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Yes, but but yeah, personally from home and she still has her work, she's still not feeling work-life balance was a really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yes, very interesting, definitely. I have a question for you, Ash. While you were talking about this, from COVID, so from pre-COVID, before COVID to now, and you then offering the remote work, what other productivity levels have you seen with your workers? As in, have you seen better productivity with remote workers? What would you say around that if you're allowed to talk about that anyway? I'm interviewing you now.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Yeah, I will be really honest and say that I don't if I'm really honest, I don't think there's actually been any change. I I think I don't think there's been any change. I think that I I use a benchmark. And so I mean, I would say that we've always been pretty good with like you know, I like spot fires. Like I probably do, yeah, I probably do two spot fires a month, maybe if that like not a lot, which is I've always been lucky from that. In terms of the longevity of my team, I would say I've only just recently experienced a few younger, they were all younger team members leave, but I also feel very comfortable in that I couldn't have offered anything more into for my work-life balance. There is support, there is it this is now on them because I honestly like and I do so always self-reflect, I can't offer any more than what I was doing. So I think, and but so I had so they were going into different industries anyway, most of them. So that was a little bit different for there. But in terms of like, I mean, I guess I'm referring to productivity as to headcount and capability. I would say to you, they're all probably still working their 40 hours a week. If prop if productivity had improved with them being working from home, maybe I should be able to see their hours being reduced down to they should be able to maybe do 30 hours instead of 40 hours a week. Um, this is actually the conversation I had to say, listen, if you can work out a way to have every Friday off or every Thursday off doing your same portfolio, good on you. I don't have a problem with that. But I don't think that working from home has not got them to that point. I would also say to you that I haven't, there's there's been no obvious correlation between longevity in terms of the team members, higher portfolios, or them reducing their hours, which is super interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Yeah, it is. That's why I wanted to ask the question. Yeah, I I actually asked this question a lot, and I wanted to hear that from you. So thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

But technically, there probably should be, and and you maybe it's something you have to ask. Maybe, maybe I'm giving you only from a business owner point of view, and you probably need to hear it from a from one of the team's point of view.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah, no, I get you, and I understand.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yeah, but I think it's yeah, but you know, as well, like I think we just find ways to absorb our time with different stuff, or we and then actually to be honest, actually, with the spot fires, the fact that it's still only one or two over yet the the portfolio sizes double, that maybe that would sort of say there has been good productivity because they are doing a great job because the the pain points, the pain points haven't increased with my business size, which is which is a good thing. So that's yes, that is a good thing. But like for me personally, I was living 18 months ago. I was living in a different area and I would spend 14 hours a week in travel to and from work, taking the kids to school and after school activities. Okay. So if we use that as an example, and I said and then I moved to my new house, and I was like, oh my God, can you imagine what I'm going to be able to do in these 14 hours a week that I'm saving? Like we had big, big, big plans.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

That's a long time.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

14 hours for a mama, a working mama. Yeah. Absolutely. And I probably felt the benefit in the first three months. But then do you know what? I I don't know what I did with my time, but I don't have those 14 hours free anymore.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

How do we just how does that happen? I don't understand. So I also, you know, I I have my business and I also have two children. Every day they have sports. I spend a lot of time with it and I love it too. I love my children's sports. I am that mum that is there in the sidelines, cheering and getting a channel. Are you in any committees? Not yet. No, are you committeing mum? I am concentrating on this business also. So, but I'm there, I'm nearly there as well. But yes, I am I am the sports mum, the school mum, the everything mum as well. So, yes, 14 hours was like, wow, you could go on massages every day. Self-care, that 14 hours.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

This is what happens with property managers and portfolio sizes and and also, you know, probably with BDMs as well, is that you you have this mind, this mindset of what you're capable of doing. But whether you've got 80 properties or 150 properties, you're going to absorb your time with the hours that you've got. Like I knew people that manage 50 properties, I mean, and they're emotionally intelligent to the point of view that they go, Ash, I know that I'm not meant to be doing 40 hours a week on 50 properties. My brain knows that, but I don't know what I'm doing with my time. But then the people that have more properties, I just find that they make quicker decisions because they don't have time to muck around. Yes, true, very true. Yes, absolutely understand exactly what you mean. So I think that like, I think it's like really important for people to really see the progression. And if we bring it back to the BDM, and let's say that you've got a BDM already working for you, or maybe you've got the hybrid model, and then you're like, you know what, I'm gonna bring Natasha in to support that BDM. I mean, I guess you would want to, as a business owner, you would want to see that direct benefit. But the direct benefit could be in different ways. The direct benefit could be definitely in more leads, increase the database. It could also be in that BDM being happier and supported and staying longer. Like you can't can't put a value on that, but that could be the benefit. Absolutely. Yeah. And and as time goes on, it'll be great for you to trap those, those, that data so that you can sort of put that in line with people and really showcase that because I don't know whether that gets that data gets showcased enough, and or we just get we get very, very complacent.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, definitely. But I there there are just so many things I think that we can help with. And yeah, that's definitely just one of them that we can support with also.

Ideal Clients KPIs And Realistic Expectations

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Yeah. So what is your at the moment? Like, well, actually, I won't ask what sort of clients you've got at the moment. I'm gonna ask you what your ideal client is. Like, I know that you can support all BDMs, but where do you think the most value can come from with officers? What would the setup look like at the moment? What would their business size look like at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 48:01

It's a again, that's a really hard question to answer because every agency or every client that I have worked with at the moment are all in different boats. And they all we all have different KPIs and different expectations and a different plan for each one. So, you know, I'm working with a client at the moment where we're just building their agency from the ground up, so from the property, their property management department from the ground up. So we're in the process of implementing systems and policies and procedures and all of that. And we've just started the lead generation. So, you know, that that we've got different expectations for that client. The next client, we have a massive, massive database of you know, 4,000 plus data to get through. So we have just partnered up with this client, and you know, we're gonna have to, we're gonna need a different expectation from that every month as well. So I guess it really depends on the client and their their current situation, but we can add value to to either situation, if you know what I mean. Like we can no matter what, we can generate leads, we can, you know, we could create those conversations and help with the referrals and you know, build the pipeline, nurture the pipeline, all of that. But I guess, yeah, it's just dependent case by case, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

Yeah, so so there's been no it's very, very um evenly spread with the yes, yeah, and no obvious do people ever come to you with like an unrealistic expectation? Like, do they come to you and say, Natasha, I need 30 properties per month? Like that I haven't got that yet.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Okay, so I've had a couple of a couple of interesting requests, you know, one being, you know, one hour a week. And, you know, I'm more than happy to do one hour a week. That is okay, but the expectations here of conversion is gonna be a little bit different, you know. And that's the thing about our service as well. You know, I'm not saying hire my BDM and we're gonna give you 10, you know, listings in the month. I am always going to talk about, you know, what we can do, what I can do, what my professional opinion advice is in what we can do and my success stories in the past. That is the best way that I can, you know, put showcase my service, not by guaranteeing things that I can't predict, you know, thing, you know, unrealistic predictions. That's not what I'll ever do. But, you know, BDM, we've got to remember that BDM, it what's the three foundations on it? It's relationships, it's referrals, it's consistent conversations. This all doesn't happen in the first phone call, not even the second phone call. It's about consistency, it's about timing, it's a bit about luck, as we all know. You know, if you're making that phone call to the right person to the right time that is having a problem with their current agency, obviously you're going to have a very strong chance in making that connection, that conversion. You know, if you're talking to somebody that, you know, a cold lead, that that that's done, you know, not interested, not happy, then that that's that's right at the beginning of the pipeline, then, isn't it? That's not even someone that we can work on. So yeah, if BDM is very complex. And I think that we all just need to understand that there is a process. Consistency builds trust, and relationships is the most important thing about this as well. So it's about using my services and having an experienced person to know how to create these relationships, how to nurture these relationships, you know, what to do with these referrals, what to do with your CRM system, how to, you know, utilize social media and your CRM email campaigns, things like that. So if you need that help alongside with the conversions and the onboarding and all of that, then that's something that that's what we offer.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

Yeah, and and very much, yeah, it it's the short-term consistency for those long-term results. And I'm sort of one of my I talk about my team because they don't actually listen to my podcast, I don't think, because they hear my voice enough in the office. Um, but um, it's okay to share. But like one of um, one of my BDMs, when she started, she was so so worried that she wasn't going to be able to hit her goals that she set. Not maybe she has her goals that she likes to set each month. And I said to her, Listen, I'm not gonna be putting pressure on you like for those goals. I said that that's on you. I said, as long as you are doing things consistently and the right things every month, that's all I care about. I said, it will, it will come, it will come with time, but there, but you just got to chill out a little bit. And even the other day, she was like, Oh my god, I'm so frustrated. I was like, You've literally been with us for three weeks. Like, I am not, I don't know why you're expecting pressure in this space though.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

There really is, you know, sometimes we get really stuck on the numbers that we forget about the, you know, the the valve the value and the you know, the everything else that matters as well, the relationships that you have. And you know, it it does sometimes it takes time. It does, it takes time.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

I mean, all I care about is, you know, is she going to a networking event? Is she going to a coffee catch-up? Is she um is she doing some letterbox? Is she doing all the right things as part of the consistency in the journey? Because I do trust that the results will always follow. Yeah, but all I care about is the daily to-dos. And so I said to her, as long as you were doing the daily to-dos, I'm fine. Like I'm and and I actually don't mind whether it takes her three or six months. I mean, after probably six months of doing the daily to-dos, I'd be like, I definitely would want to see, you know, the results starting to come through. But I actually probably, I personally don't think I would be putting pressure on her for till the six months. Some people might be this thing going, well, actually, I say three months. The reason why I don't say three months is because I think a lot of it's seasonal as well. And I feel like, yeah, three months goes so quickly. I feel like six months, I'm probably I feel more comfortable in wanting to see some sort of thing happen. But it's um, yeah, I I feel like we do, I I do feel like people put pressure on themselves a lot though.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

I'm not gonna lie, I put a lot of pressure on myself as well. I obviously like to try to please and do the best that I can, and you know, I'm very results driven as well. So I can fully understand the pressures of obedience. So I understand. But yes, it is what you said is is is perfectly and well said, and it's just definitely something to be mindful of, using our services as well. You know, I would love to say I'm a miracle worker, and if anyone's gonna convert that listing, it's me. But at the end of the day, it you know, it it's time and it's relationships and it's that consistency that um that will come with it and eventually bloom and flourish.

SPEAKER_02 55:03

It's it's a personality, isn't it? A BDM. So it's um it is a I think the personality of a BDM is just driven by that. That's why they have good BDMs. And and I mean and probably that's probably why I've actually got a lot of faith in her and trust the process because the fact that she worries about that, yes, yes, but she's gonna be fine. If I had a BDM that didn't worry about that, I probably would feel the need to put more pressure on, but I don't feel the need to because she puts enough on herself.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

We don't need to both do it.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

That's so true. That's like you know, you're a mum, mum's listening right now. You know that's true because when something happens with your child and you say, Am I a bad mum? It says, You just asking that question means you are a good mum.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

So same, same. Exactly, exactly. Well, it's so lovely chatting with you. I uh I feel like you know, sometimes these uh these catch-ups are just like having a normal catch-up, but let's just press record while we do that. Yes, yes, which are the best ones to have. But it's it's it's been really, really awesome to see to to see obviously you grow, but also just to see the industry change and the industry to see these new options for business owners to make their life easier, to complement what they're already doing. And that's that's what I love. I I love the game changing of it all, and that's really cool. And having someone like you behind that as well, who is going in with a very open mind to the like, you know, what we can do in the industry is why we need more people like you. So that is that's what excites me the most.

How To Reach Natasha And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_00 56:49

So so lovely chatting with you again. Thank you so much for having me. Before I let you go, I will say that whoever's listening, myBDM is licensed now in three states. So Perth, Victoria, and Queensland. So you are if you are from these states or any other states, let me know. I can always get my mutual rec over there as well. You can contact me via my email, natasha at mybdm.com.au. Check it out website, mybdm.com.au. Obviously, we are remote bdm and we would love to hear from you. So if you are needing help with growth or help uh assistance for your team in growth, hit me up.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Amazing. And Natasha has a great profile on Instagram as well. So go over and give her a follow. Um, and you can actually, I love how you've got all your team on your socials. So that's some I celebrate everyone. Love so definitely go connect. And and what I do say to everyone is it's really, really good for business owners to know what's available. So even just to having, you know, booking in to have a chat with Natasha, you might not be ready, but just to find out about what she can do for your office, I think is really important. And and this goes the same with like demos with products and stuff like that. I always say you need to know what's available so that when you have a pain point in your business, you know exactly where to go and you can make quick decisions to get things done. So even just having a chat with Natasha about what that would look like, even if you're not 100% ready, at least when you do have that situation where someone leaves or whatever's going on, or maybe you need some to have some growth, you know who to call. You've already had the conversation with Natasha, and it's um super easy just to sort of plug it in. So that is what I would always encourage people to do to make sure yeah, they know what is available to them. So amazing, lovely chatting with you. Good to see you again, and um, let's do it again in another six months. I'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Oh your your podcast, you said you needed a guest, so I can be your recurrent guest, Jamie. I would I will remember that.

SPEAKER_01 58:55

So if I ever like have an absolute, you know, really struggle with my solo, I might just do a bit of a cold call to you.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

Sounds good. Well, if not, I'll see you in six months. Thank you, Mr. Chat. Thanks, Ash. See ya.