After The Unthinkable Part Two With Ashley Owens

One phone call sends Ashley Owens into every parent’s worst fear, and what she shares next is hard to hear but impossible to ignore. We walk through the medical reality of traumatic brain injury, the shock of seeing signs of abuse in the ICU, and the unbearable moment a mother has to make decisions no one should ever face. If you’ve searched for child loss support, traumatic grief, or what it feels like to survive child abuse fallout, Ashley’s words put real language to what so many families carry in silence.

The conversation also expands into trauma recovery, domestic violence, narcissistic abuse, mental health crises, and how unprocessed grief can lead to more chaos. Ashley shares what finally helps: therapy, boundaries, community, and a faith that doesn’t erase pain but gives it meaning. If you’re trying to heal from PTSD, rebuild after an abusive relationship, or support someone through grief, you’ll leave with perspective and practical hope. Subscribe for more real stories, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review with the moment that hit you hardest.

Transcript

Recording Started

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Hey everyone, welcome back to our part two series, the first part two series we've ever done on the Insolvable Podcast with our guest, Miss Ashley Owens. If you listen to if you haven't listened to part one yet, you need to go back and listen to that first to make sure all this makes sense going into part two. But we left off at a crucial time yesterday where Ashley was talking about the death of her son. Now, Ashley is a survivor, she is a go-getter, she is a community server, she loves people. And we're gonna end and wrap up with some happy, shiny moments. But right now, we're gonna tell the deep the depths of her story and how she got to be who she was today and how she persevered in times where most people may have given up. So, Ashley, I'm gonna turn the floor back to you. I just wanted to do a quick introduction. I want you to go ahead and just kind of where we left off yesterday where we talked about how you had just found out that your son had passed away. He was four years old. Is that correct? Four years old?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, he was he was four years old. So and and I want to preface this kind of by saying too, because this is this is this is absolutely a trigger warning kind of situation. And I wanna, I'm gonna I'm gonna take us back just real briefly, just to kind of explain how we got to this point, because it it's something that I get asked a lot. And and I kind of wanna, you know, give give the listeners a little bit of of context here too, because it's something that I hear a lot that I talk about this like I'm so detached from it. And I get a lot of people that are like, you seem just so detached from reality. And and all of that will make sense, obviously, as we kind of progress through this. But in in 2013, towards the end of 2013, I was I was still working, I was working uh for gossip motor cars in Memphis and I was a warranty administrator. I had both of the children just lived with me full-time. Um, it was the best situation for them. They still saw their dad fairly regularly, and he lived like two and a half hours away at the time. He lived in like Iuga, Mississippi. And I we had made the decision together, their father and I, to let Asher go and live with his dad because he was he was like almost four at that time. And so, right, I think it was Thanksgiving Day, actually, I went down, I took the kids down to see their dad, and they were gonna stay for a couple of days or whatever, and then Avery was gonna come back home. My my daughter, who will be 18 this summer and graduating, she is two years older than Asher, and she was already in school. So I was working full-time, I was going to the University of Memphis, um, working on a degree in psychology. And my little boy was pretty much spending the majority of his time at his babysitter's house. And with my chaotic schedule, it just wasn't really fair. And I was like, at the very least, he can be spending time with family. And so we made the decision, took him down. He got to stay with his dad, even though I brought sister back home so that she could go back to school. Um during that period of time, he lived there for, I guess, so the end of thank or like right at Thanksgiving until this all happened right at the end of July. So like a eight, seven to eight month period of time, right? Um wasn't there long at all. Yeah. No, wasn't there long at all. Um, I I did I had a job change in the middle of this and took a I was going from doing warranty work to an opportunity to learn automotive finance. And anybody who knows anything about the car business at all knows that when you're in management at a car dealership, I mean you just you're chained to the desk. It's you're married to your job. And so I was going through the motions of that. My grandfather passed away in May. He was literally like my most favorite human, well, my favorite male human on the planet, my son. So that was that was really, really rough for me. And Asher was supposed to be moving back home with me, like middle of August at the latest. We were, I was moving back into my own place. We weren't going to be living with family members anymore and was just kind of like progressing towards these things. And so I get this phone call. And again, it's um, hey, you know, like Asher's seizing, we don't know if he swallowed something or if he fell out of the bed. Like, we don't know what happened. I'm headed to the house. Ambulances called. Next phone call is, you know, they're giving him medicine to stop the seizures. They're, they're, you know, he's in the ambulance. He's probably gonna be life flighted. And I lived in Memphis at the time. There was mentioned that he might be life flighted to LeBron. And I'm like, okay, like, no worries. I'll I'll be there. They're like, just be prepared to meet us there. We're not gonna be able to ride on the helicopter, so just you know, be there and we'll be there shortly. At this point, like nobody has any idea what's going on. We just know that there's something wrong with my son. So I immediately, like, in my pajamas, just grab my stuff, jump in the car, and drive to Laboner. I have no idea when he's actually gonna get there. I my daughter was in bed, obviously. Like, she's got school in the morning, and my boyfriend at the time stayed behind and got a hold of our babysitter and took her over there, and she stayed with her for days. So I get to the hospital and I've already called. I called my mom, tried to call my mom. She was living in Japan at the time, and I called my best friends. One of them actually worked at Laboner. And so she meets me there. And my other friend who was present, Holly, um, at Asher's birth, she meets me there. And I walk inside and I was like, you know, like, my name is Ashley, like my my I heard my son is gonna be lifelighted here. When I told them my name, they literally took me out of the waiting room and put me in like a private holding area with my little support team. And I'm going, that's weird, but okay. And so we're all just kind of hanging out, and a little bit of time goes by, like nobody has any idea what's going on. There's not really any communication. And maybe an hour or so goes by, and Child Protective Services walks in. And they're like, hey, you know, like, can we have a conversation? And I'm like, okay, sure. And so they they pull me into like a private little meeting room and they're asking me all kinds of questions about why Asher was with his father, which seems like a really strange question, I might add, right? Like there's this, like this stigma that kids shouldn't be with their dads for some reason. And and I realize, like, obviously, there are very valid reasons for certain situations, but I found it to be odd. And they're asking if there's any history of abuse or violence or anything like that. And I kind of made a joke. I was like, well, no, you know, like I was like, I recall one time that, you know, he picked up our daughter and like grabbed a crock, like and went to swat her butt with a croc. And, you know, I stopped and I was like, I'll break every bone in your body. Like, if you can't spanker with your hand, you don't need to spank her at all. And they were like, okay. And they're like, you know, we don't, we don't know what's going on yet. Like, we're just trying to get some backstory and stuff. Oh, okay. So we go back to waiting and we wait forever for Asher to actually get to the hospital. And he finally arrives, and I got to see him just briefly. He was he was on the stretcher, his neck is in, is in one of the stabilizers, and he's completely strapped down, completely unconscious. And I just got to like touch his hand and stuff. They were rushing him immediately into surgery. So I guess they had done a CT scan when they got to the hospital in McNary County and realized that there was a massive hematoma and and that they were not equipped to handle his situation. And again, like we still have absolutely no idea what's going on. I don't even know that there's a massive hematoma. I just know that they're doing emergency brain surgery. And so they rush him off. I knew right then when I saw my son, like I knew that he was not coming back from this. I knew. Yeah. I I think every parent like kind of subconsciously knows when something is horribly wrong. And I don't know if it's just something that's kind of ingrained in in our DNA from it's the mother's instinct. Yeah, like you just you just know. They they rushed him off. I so I I I got to see him for not even 60 seconds, and and they took him off and they they took us to another room, just like the the surgery waiting room or or what have you. And I remember sitting there thinking, man, it's been hours and I haven't heard from their dad. And I'm calling, I'm not getting any answers. And I'm like, well, maybe their phone died, you know, like it's a two and a half, three hour drive for them to get up here. Like, what is going on? And I thought it was really, really strange. And I get I get notification that he's out of surgery, they're waiting for him just to kind of stabilize, and then they'll be able to put us in the room with him. And but he's still like he's pretty much in a coma. And I I remember laying on the couch and they finally told us that like we could come back and see him. And I remember getting into the room, and he's got like his head is completely wrapped in bandages. He's got he's got his unicorn monitor, which is for anybody that doesn't know, it's an intranial pressure monitor. You'll hear me use ICP a few times. It's just for intranial pressure, but he's just wrapped up and he's got a diaper on. And I'm looking at my baby, and like I kind of pull the sheet back, and there's a there's a bite mark on his left arm. And I was like, that's weird. And I pull the sheet back a little bit further, and there's a bruise like on his torso near his hip bone that is like the shape of a boot heel. And I remember like I was furious what happened to my baby. I can't imagine. And it's probably 9 30 in the morning at this point, and Sheriff Guy Buck from the McNary County Sheriff's Department shows up, and uh he's like, Hey, we just wanted to like give you an update and we wanted to get up here because depending on what happens to your son, will be what determines the charges that are coming. He said, just so you are aware, your ex-husband and his girlfriend have been detained while he was having the CT or MRI done at McNary County's hospital. The nurses saw the bite mark on his arm that was scabbed and went out into the waiting room and asked who bit the baby. And the girlfriend said, I did. My mom told me my mom ran a daycare or something to that effect. And my mom said that if you've got a kid who's biting, you bite him back and it'll solve that problem. And they were so caught off guard by like the callousness of her comment and the severity of the bite mark, it clearly like drew blood if it scabbed that they arrested them both at the hospital on suspected child abuse charges and neglect. And so they were and they were indicted like a week and a half later. But they wanted me to, they were there to get pictures of him. And of course, I took my own pictures because now that I know what's going on, like it as much as you don't want to think about like going back and revisiting that place. Sometimes it's it's kind of good to have your own reminders of of what happened. And I remember just I I don't think I left the room more than two or three times. Like I never left the hospital. My I remember my my boss at the time, she came. My my OBGYN that I saw when when I was pregnant with him, her and her assistant both came to the hospital. One of my pastors came. I had a room full of people. So my mom was in the process. She like I mentioned, you know, she she's worked for the government for as long as I've known. My mom was in the process of moving from Japan to Italy for her new position. And I guess the the military's version of the Red Cross pretty much reached out and was like, hey, like we're putting you guys on an emergency Mac flight back to Memphis given this situation. And her church family in Japan literally packed up her entire house and she never even went back. So her and my brothers were on an emergency flight. And before I knew it, like I have an entire waiting room on the on the neuro floor of Laboner that's just full of people that are there for Asher. And his his intracranial pressure kind of like it kind of stayed like uh between 40 and 50 for reference, uh, like a normal healthy pressure inside of a brain for a child is under 10. So that's like significant swelling. They had to remove a piece of his skull on the right side of his head and could not put it back because there was effectively a blood clot that ran, my understanding was like several inches along the side of his head from some sort of blunt force trauma.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

And you're still not knowing the exact. I mean, you know it was abuse, but you don't know the exact yeah, we still have no idea what happened.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

And they, I believe that I'm pretty sure the sheriff told me he's like, hey, like as things were coming, like they came almost every day. And he's like, she's saying that, you know, he was giving her the you're not my mommy spiel, and and she got angry or or forced no, and keep in mind, she's like five or six months pregnant when this happens. She, you know, she pushed him and he hit his head on the dresser.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

But this wasn't just a I'm pushing and like there's no this was a push. Either way, you should never push again.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

But this was a like if you have a context, you know, like I mean, an average dresser, like even if it's like an old dresser that has like a legitimate foot on it, like you would have to hit a four-year-old child, like their skull is developed, you would have to hit something incredibly hard. And if I'm being honest, I don't buy any of the story at all. Uh I I just don't like if you sit back and you think about it logically, none of it actually makes any sense. Um I I remember I remember there was a lot of talk about donating organs and the fact that like they, I mean, they couldn't declare him brain dead because he wasn't at that time. Um this was a I I I think it's a I guess a stage for TBI. And you don't really recover from those. Like the the amount of people that recover from those, it's just it it just doesn't happen. Um and I remember people having to like drag me out of the room just to force me to eat because I just did I just didn't want to leave. And I remember I remember finally saying like I while I I was toying with the idea of donating organs, and they explained to me that obviously like you have to it has to be done at a certain time, like they have to still be like technically uh alive and stuff, and and they keep them alive effectively so that blood is still flowing and things like that. And my thought process was so he's gonna die on a like he'll actually pass away on an operating room table. Like that doesn't like this, this doesn't seem fair. And so I had decided against that, and I remember so this all happened. So my daughter's birthday was actually like the day before I got the phone call. If I recall correctly, I think I was off on Wednesdays, and I had taken my daughter that day to go do like all of her birthday shopping and stuff, and then I get home, and that's the phone call that I get because her birthday was the 28th of July. And so we'd been there for we'd hit like the three-day mark. It's now like Friday evening, I guess. And we're we're in the room. I my mom still hadn't made it yet, and all the monitors start to go off, and his heart rate dropped like plummeted to like below 30, and his intranial pressure shot up to a hundred. And so everybody's rushing into the room, and of course, I've got a lot of my friends are nurses, and they're all there with me, and they're trying to explain to me what's happening. At that moment, the pressure in his brain exceeded the space that was available for it and the swelling, and his brain hemorrhaged from his skull, and he was considered brain dead. So we made the decision at this point. Now he's not even a viable candidate for organ donation. And we made the very difficult decision to keep him on epinephrine, just to keep his heart beating so that everybody who was en route had the opportunity to say goodbye to him. And that I I I think it was that Sunday we were we were finally like, okay, like it everybody's been here, everybody's had the opportunity to say their piece. Um we I I kicked out like almost everybody, and the nurses helped me climb into sorry, I'm I'm trying to keep it together.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

I'm trying to keep it together for you.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

They they helped me climb into the bed with them. We had to be super, super careful because obviously when he passes, this becomes a a murder. Yeah. So we have to be very, very careful not to disturb his body in any way that it could be further damaged for autopsy. And so they managed to get me in the bed and I was able to like wrap my arms around him and cradle him as they turned everything off. And so Asher got to he physically died in my arms.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

As hard as that is, how beautiful is that, you know? Exactly. It's um you know. It's wow. Sorry. I yeah, I've tried to keep it together. I prayed before we could do this podcast. I was just like, God help me, because I knew this was going to be such a hard recording. But we need to do this because there's so many moms that have had to go through this and dads have had to go through this. I mean, we we, you know, I told you I told you that the other day that we've just experienced this in our small community. Yeah. A dad taking a mother, his his, you know, taking a his own child's life and then the mother's life and then his life. Like this, this stuff is real. And that's why we need to talk about stuff like this. Like this, yeah, it can't keep happening to these babies. And God, I don't see how you did it. I mean, it had to be the strength of the Lord, Ashley, that got you through this.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

It had to be I had I had so many people sitting in that waiting room praying. I had I had a a high school friend of mine that was actually like she was mad at me. Uh, she was mad that I was giving up. And I God rest her soul. She passed away two years ago from complications with breast cancer. She was so upset with me. She was like, Ashley, you can't give up. You have to fight. Like, you can't give up. You know, God works miracles, you know, like he can heal him and all these things. And I was Janie, like, yeah, I love you, but like we also have to face reality.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

I mean you were in the ring when it happened, you saw it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Like, I I was I was there. I I I said even before that happened that if if Asher wasn't going to have the ability to live the life that he deserved to live, that I wanted Jesus to take him. It it wasn't fair to him to have, especially with that kind of brain injury, it wasn't fair to him to not be able to run around and play football and live some semblance of a normal life. If if he was just gonna be like paralyzed, okay, like so what? Big deal. I I I I'm work with that, right? If he's going to effectively be a vegetable and have absolutely no idea what is even happening around him, that's to me, that was cruel. And I I just like I I I I couldn't I couldn't take it. It had nothing to do, like it it had nothing to do with my willingness to to take care of him. I mean, like but I I will say is as much as much disdain as I have for even the existence of my children's father, even at this point in my life. Like I have I've forgiven his ineptitude as an adult and a and a parent to the extent that I'm physically capable of. But but he did one thing right and only one thing right. He actually did sign up and apply for the Mississippi's version of 10 care because Asher's effectively four or five day stay at Laboner plus his Medevac flight was well over a million dollars. Like his brain surgery alone, like that bill was like half a million dollars. And I was like, I was looking at these statements and and finally somebody stopped me and they were like, Ashley, like they're like, look, he he actually had him on the Mississippi CARES program. Like they'll they're paying for everything. And I was like, Thank you, Jesus. So I I you know, like I had come to that conclusion early on that that was not the kind of life that my son deserved to have, and that if that was what I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that obviously, like God can do anything, right? Like he there's a chance to healing, you are open to leaving him on there however long you need to do it. Absolutely like he is going to be the one that can do it, but I'm also a very logical and reasonable person, and I understand that you know, like yes, there are supernatural healings that take place, but there's only so much that can happen that actually makes sense, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:04

And you just said that they were giving him medicine just to keep him alive for family.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

It wasn't like it's like a letse plummeted, like heart rate plummeted, pressure goes through the roof. Like at that moment, like you're you're completely brain dead. Like there's there's nothing happening. Um, they kept doing like functioning tests and stuff, and you would get like these these little tremors or twitches that are common in traumatic brain injury that lead people to believe that there's something going on and it's not. They're they're just spasms. So it it was, yeah, I got a I got a good bit of of of of hate, if you will, even from people that I knew it was coming from the the best of places that that I was I was giving up. I'm like, I'm not I'm not giving up. I'm I'm being realistic and I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst possible outcome. And so I did. I I crawled in the bed with him. He they disconnected everything. And I I have photos you can see in the photos, just over like the 10-minute span of time, if it was even that long, where he's still clearly like alive, and when he's not, like the skin just turns like this yellow jaundicey color, and it almost looks it doesn't even look real. Like the person that I'm holding these photos does not look like a real person, and he's so so so swollen. And I I think I think everybody left the room except for maybe my mom. And and I stayed in the bed with my now deceased child for like an hour and a half, and like they finally had to be like Ashley, like, okay, like you, you have to get out of the bed. You can't like you can't put him in a duffel bag and take him home with you. You have to, you have to walk away. And I was I was just I was just numb. Like I I had there's so many people that had just rallied, like people in people that I went to high school with, everybody was sharing everything all over. I'm sure it was on the news and everything. Yeah, it was all over the place. People were changing out the porch lights to blue lights because blue was the color for child abuse. People are putting blue ribbons on everything. There were GoFundMe's set up because we didn't know what the hospital bills we had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Well, you're not planning on burying a four a fourth-year-old. I mean, let's just be real. You navigate this new normal without your baby. You're gonna have to pay for therapy. God knows all this stuff that's gonna come with you.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

There was there was like there's there's so much that that like everybody else was kind of I I'm on I'm on just like zombie autopilot. How I really remember anything that even happened is is a miracle in and of itself because it's it was a blur. I remember and and you remember I I said that there was this moment that involved my father that now that my child was was fighting for his life, that was the moment that I was like, I'm I like I cannot like it it pushed me over the edge. So at some point in time, I think when I was driving to the hospital initially, I think I called my dad. You know, I mentioned like I tried to have some semblance of a relationship with him at extreme arm's length. My mom's in Japan, completely different time zone. I can't get her on the phone. And I called him while I was driving to the hospital because I like I just I needed somebody to talk to in that moment. He was a truck driver, I knew he would answer the phone. And he showed up at the hospital. He showed up at my brother's house. And I remember my older brother had been at the hospital, and he was like, our our father is here. And I stopped him. I told him, like, you know, don't, and I lost it. I was like, he needs to leave. I didn't ask him to come here. And you know, in the back of my mind, I was like, Well, Ashley, I mean, you you called him and and told him what was going on. But under once you figured out what it was, but like under no no circumstances at all, did I say, hey, dad, like, you know, hi person that I don't really feel comfortable around given, you know, all of the the history and like, hey, why don't you jump in your car and drive from Wisconsin to Memphis and you know, come sit with me while my child is finding like that conversation I know didn't take place. And I I remember I think I was really ugly to my older brother. I was like, this is your problem. I need you to deal with it. Because when I was still in high school, my brother was he was trying to find a way to reestablish a relationship with our dad. And my dad actually came to visit and they pulled up at my job. You keep in mind, I'm like 17 years old. I'm still a minor. And they, they, and my brother was like, hey, you know, I don't know if you're comfortable with it, but dad's in the car across the street were going to go eat, and I just didn't know if he wanted to be included in it. And I remember being furious at the time. I was like, how dare you like spring that on me now, you know, because I'm I'm such a soft-hearted person. And I'm like, well, now I feel bad. Now I'm the a-hole if I just I'm like, no, I'm dipping out, like, go away. I remember my mom was furious. So I put it on my brother. I was like, this is your problem. Like, you brought him back into our lives, you deal with it. Um and and he was told to leave. I think I I don't remember if he showed up at the hospital or if he was just insisting, but I think the end result was he was told that if he tried to enter the hospital that he'd be escorted out by security.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

But your brother wasn't abused by him, though. No, no, so he didn't have the traumatic thing. And you were not only were you dealing with a traumatic thing, I mean, anything that you said at that time could be easily excused because you were going through a place that no parent should ever have to go. You're you were not thinking clearly your emotions were all over the place. That is normal behavior for anybody that's you know through something. Everybody, everybody has things processing differently. Plus, when you found out that your child was abused, it brought up the past where you were abused and your motherly their instincts was just an overdrive. I mean, that's had to be what was going on.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

I I think looking back at it, I I think that if if he had actually been allowed to enter the hospital, I if I had physically harmed him or or taken his life from him that day, which very well could have happened in the mental state that I was in, I I probably would, I probably would have, I mean, like that would have been an absolute temporary insanity, like trauma triggered, you know, like this is a person who abused me showing up at the hospital when my son is dying from child abuse. And and yeah, like I again, it it's like a thank you, thank you, Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Like, yeah, thank you for intervening in that.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that every single prayer that was prayed over my son in that hospital, I I know that they were all just diverted straight to me. I I know that because I, you know, it was it was a minute before I went back to work and Avery had to start schooling. Like this, this all happened. Like he he passed away on the the 2nd of August, 2014. And school starts like a week later in Shelby County. And I I was left to my own devices because my my like I didn't even I didn't even go back to the house that we were living in, except to pack our things. We we moved into our apartment early, which just added insult to injury because it's like just one more week. Like you couldn't just wait another week, like you can keep your hands off my kid for one more week.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

And I got him back here.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

We we moved in early, and I remember like I had like a shrine to him. We had like at the upstairs when you got up around the corner, there was like this little desk nook, and I had like this shrine to him of all the things from funeral, like there was all kinds of pictures with little blue pinwheels, and we we had to have his funeral service without his body. We just had a memorial, and my um God bless her, my friend Lainey drove all the way up from Florida. She wasn't able to get here fast enough to be able to see him and say goodbye to him in the hospital, but she got up here and she coordinated with a couple of other friends, and they literally planned his entire service for me. I literally didn't do anything. All of my friends scoured the internet between MySpace and Facebook and pulled every single photo that anybody ever had of him and you know, put together this giant slideshow, and there were so many people there. We didn't, you know, we I mean, the the church donated the the church sanctuary to us to have the funeral. A gentleman that I used to work with at the Gossett store was also a pastor, and he led the service. We pretty much just let people come up and and tell their asher stories, and and it was just like a true celebration of life. And it was it while being like the most traumatic, I think the single most traumatic thing that I've ever been through in my life, it's been it's been 11 and a half years. You know, last Friday was his was what would have been his 16th birthday. And it's the 12th birthday that we've celebrated without him. And there's all these people that continue to hold space in their hearts and in their life to celebrate him the two times a year that it kind of hits us. And and some of them, but most of them never even knew him, never even had the chance to meet him. And it brought together just this massive community, and it it was hard. And my my healing and dealing with the significance of that event was derailed. And it feels so callous to say that given the circumstances, but the the guy that I was dating at the time and and was living with was he, I mean, he had just gone back to work and had a doctor's appointment because he just had this really weird pain like in his back, and he thought he had like a kidney infection or something. And they couldn't figure out what it was, and so they sent him to have an MRI done, and we go, they sent us to a neurologist to get the MRI results, and they're like, Hey, we're direct admitting you to the med. And you know, we just we're like, okay, pause. They're like, you have a huge mass that has encased part of your spine and looks like it's snaking off of your spine and like pressing through your vena cava into your heart. Um, this is a this is that not even a year after Asher. This is a week and a half after the funeral.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah. So we we we go to the med, we he's immediately admitted. They start ordering like additional CAT scans and MRIs and to kind of figure out what it is that they're looking at. And little to my knowledge, I didn't know that when he was like in high school, when he was uh like 17 years old, um, he'd had a mass in his armpit and was treated at St. Jude for it. He had a what was considered a childhood cancer. And I had no idea. He didn't tell me that. I just knew he had a scar in his armpit because he had, you know, some mass removed. Didn't know it was cancer, and it came back because he'd never he never did all of his follow-ups, you know, like he's supposed to get you know PET scans and stuff like that to make sure that nothing is coming back, and there's no telling how long this thing had been there, but it encased the entire L4 of his spine, and it looked like a Polish kilbasa and had like just attached to the vena cave, and they didn't know if it was pushing through like it was going to cause a blockage, and they didn't know if it was gonna paralyze him. And so immediately after all the trauma that we've just gone through for for Asher, I think I had literally been back at work for a week myself. Now we're in a hospital and they're planning, his surgical team is planning to go in and try to debulk this tumor and at least detach it from from the the valve in his heart so that it doesn't cause a blockage and like press through. And so I go immediately from you know being this grieving mother of a child who was just murdered, that's all over the news. And now all of a sudden the focus of attention is on the guy who's just been diagnosed with cancer. And who, like, we we got married in the hospital bed the night before his first surgery because he was mortified that he wasn't gonna wake up and he was like, I want us to be married, you know. Like, I need you to be able to make medical decisions and stuff. And looking back, it was the single one of the most single dumbest things I think I've ever done in my life. I that I was in no position to you were going through so much. Yeah, trauma begets trauma, and it's like, and and part of that might be an ADHD thing too, is you're like, let me bury myself into something else that needs to be fixed so I don't have to fix what's going on here. And it was, yeah, it was a lot. I lost my job over all of it. Like I was, I I was absolutely detached from everything. And and you know, he was never able to go back to work by the grace of God yet again, because it was because it was a reoccurrence of a cancer that was previously treated at Saint Jude as a 27-year-old adult. He was readmitted to Saint Jude. I didn't even know that that was a thing.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

I didn't either. Wow, that's such a important thing to know when you're donating to that place.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah, they they did his first surgery at, and it was it was actually at at I think it was actually UT, it wasn't the med. They did his first surgery at UT Medical Center um in downtown Memphis, and then he was transferred to St. Jude um for all other further treatments and stuff. And this went on, I think we were married for like just over a year in reality. There were lots of chemo, lots of surgeries, lots of radiation, lots and lots and lots of medications and just you know, sleepless nights. You're you it was a super, super aggressive cancer. Um, and so like he would come home with absolutely no immune system. So even the slightest fever, you're having to rush to the hospital in the middle of the night. And I've got a first grader. It like it, it wasn't fair to her and the a lot of the medications. I mean, you're talking, I think at one point in time he was on like 1600 milligrams of gabapentin every day, 32 milligrams a day of Delaudid, and he was so. Driving. I'm like, well, how is this legal? And then all the steroids and stuff. I mean, like, I don't I don't understand how people can can do it. I my my husband and I, we talk about all the time that if I I tell him, I'm like, look, if I'm ever, if we ever get some kind of a crazy diagnosis like that, I said I just need you to be okay with the fact that unless there's like a greater than 70% chance that whatever they're proposing is gonna work and I'm gonna go on to live a normal life, just know that I'm gonna sell everything that I own and just live with the, you know, the consequences. I'm not gonna treat it because I watched what happened over that year of time and the changes and stuff, and I was miserable and I just like I wouldn't want to leave a memory like that for the people that I love. And so I I said it we got married in that August, and I think by by November of the following year, it was like a week before Thanksgiving. I finally I was like, dude, like I can't do this anymore. Like I need you, I need you to leave. And uh I I think he told himself for a really long time that I was that I was so so so in love with him that I I just couldn't stand the idea of of watching him die. And I was trying to detach from it. And I was like, no, I've just accepted that like you're seven years younger than I am, and we shouldn't have gotten married. I was more than you know willing to support you and help you go through this. Like I wouldn't have just let you go through it on your own, but like this this was a mistake, and I am in no position to be trying to take care of you when I have a daughter who is my main priority, and and I'm I'm failing miserably at it, and she's miserable because you're scary because of the amount of steroids that you're on, like you scare me. And and yeah, so I I'm I gave him the boot and tried to pick up and and and carry on and and tried to get some some healing of of some kind. And I've always been the kind of person that just buries myself in my work because it's like the constant thing that you can you can just dive into it and you can forget everything else that is a train wreck in your life.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

And you know, I don't want to get too far ahead. I'm not trying to interrupt you, but let's go back really quick so our listeners can kind of keep up with the the the timeline here. So you guys just understand the context of this, she lost her son the first of August. She finds out that her partner that she's living with, you know, her boyfriend has a terminal essentially essentially cancer. Trying to marry, trying to you knowing now, huh? You know, knowing now that you've got clarity, knowing that you just jumped you're just trying to bury yourself to trauma of losing your son. You realized what did I do? Then you feel guilty because I know you, Ashley, you feel guilty, like you're in this relationship, leaving a guy that has cancer. But at this point, I've already lost one child. I can't lose another. I've got to be mom, I've got to be present, I can't lose myself in this. She's miserable. Like, I've got to, I've got to take the reins back. And you know, there's gonna be people that may hear this and they may judge, and that's fine. But you're not in her shoes, you're not walking in her shoes. So, listeners, please let me hear you on hear me on this. Until you walked in somebody's shoes, until you know their whole story, until you've been in their basement, if they let you in to begin with, to see the trauma that they have pulled themselves out of, be gracious. I've learned that. I used to be very judgmental before I walked where I walked. And after I walked in some of the seasons I walked, Ashley, I've learned to be gracious because you don't know how you would act in that situation. You don't know how you would act. You know, those people that were saying, I can't believe you unplugged that. You don't know how you would act in that situation until you're there, and God forbid you ever be there.

unknown 48:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

And um, you know, people are trying to survive, and we are not here to create more chaos for them. So whether people understand your story or not, I think people will understand and be empathetic to you. But I want people to really understand the concept of you lost your son, you had another traumatic experience. It's just been one traumatic experience after another. Your body's in fight or flight. Oh, yeah, trying to recover, trying to be a mom, trying to save yourself. Did they did they end up what was the charges that came about with the par the the the girlfriend and the dad?

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Oh so yeah, again, insult to injury, right? They they had their arrangements. I want to say in like September, maybe it it might have even been in August after, you know, after funeral and stuff like that. And and then and and and I I almost like I almost pause to even say it because there is a possibility that other family members may hear this and and may feel attacked for saying it, but I I even like the other grandparents I thought they were all coming to even to the to the hospital. Nobody ever came. I thought that they were coming to the funeral and and nobody nobody came. I I am still, I I do still very much have a relationship with my former sister-in-law. She's an amazing human and she loved my children like they were her own. She was always a huge advocate for them. And you know, like her and I spoke, and and she didn't make it to the funeral because like they were all supposed to be going together. His Anthony, their their father, his mom has a a very it she's got a like an anxiety condition of some kind. And I I my understanding, I guess she was kind of having like a mental breakdown over what was going on and just was not capable. And I I said some not nice things at one point. I think it was probably a year, a year down the road, she had sent me a message and asked about being able to visit a grave site. And I think I kind of snapped back and I was like, Well, if you had come to the funeral, you would have known that there's not a grave site. Azure is cremated and he is right here with me where he belongs. And I don't know that I've ever actually even spoken to her again, and it's been, you know, 11 years. So Anthony, all charges against their dad were were dropped. So the the interesting caveat to all of this is that they were living in Adams, Tennessee, at one point in time, and had recently moved into a rental house, I believe, in Savannah, which is a different county. Wait a minute, he stayed with her? No, no, they well, so prior to the incident that took place, um, they were they were they had just relocated and it was in a different county from the house that they were previously in. The medical examiner upon autopsy said that while there were clearly injuries outside of the injury that actually caused his death. And even though Anthony admittedly, he said yes, that he had, you know, hit him with shoes and it effectively admitted to we'll call it the most inappropriate forms of of uh of correction. Even though those things were admitted, because the bruises and injuries were all in various stages of healing, they could not definitively say when those injuries took place. And because they could not say when the injuries took place, they could not determine if the injuries were sustained in McNeary County or not. So McNeary County had to drop the charges against dad because they couldn't prove that the that the offenses occurred in a county that they even had jurisdiction to prosecute for. Which, you know, again, in the back of my mind, I'm going at the very least, he's culpable because he allowed it to happen, right? So he was released on bond. She was never released. She, because now she's, you know, undergoing they they charged her initially. She was indicted on like first degree murder. And I I went through a very, very, very long. I I was I was already like the the remarriage, like me and and second husband were already like separated, like our divorce was almost final by the time the trial was even gonna take place. It was so death day August 2nd, 2014. It was October of 2016 before we were even supposed to go to trial. And the trial didn't even happen. I remember, I think it was my mom's birthday, actually. I remember going to McNary County to the court because we were supposed to be having a meeting with the DA's office to discuss the trial that was supposed to be beginning at the end of October. And I was completely blindsided. I remember sitting and Anthony's there with his new wife and his father, I think, was there with him. My mom and my grandmother were there with me. And I had I had been preparing a statement, assuming that when we finally went to court, that they would probably have some sort of victim statement read. And I remember one of the assistant district attorneys was sitting to my right, and they start going on and on and on about, you know, what it takes to actually get a first-degree murder conviction and what they have, what they don't have. You know, like we we did like a mock trial kind of thing, and you know, we're not confident that that people will consider the biting a form of child abuse and and all this other stuff. And I'm literally sitting here like just in a daze. And I finally I stopped and I looked at him, and I think my words were, can you cut the bull? And I said, tell me like why the F I'm here. And his eyes got really big, and he was like, and I said, listen, dude, I said, it's been nearly two and a half years. I said, you guys have delayed this process over and over and over. I said, I had to get a hold of the governor for crying out loud and was on the news pleading for you guys to do something. I said, like you've given me all this time. I said, I don't need you to tell me what it takes to get a first-degree murder conviction. I said, it it was it was it was child abuse. It was child abuse that killed my son. I said it was aggravated child abuse because he was under the age of seven in the state of Tennessee. I said, and death that results from an act of aggravated child abuse is automatically first degree murder in this state. I said, so please do not tell me what it takes to get a first-degree murder conviction. Why am I here? He said, Well, to be honest with you, we've been working out a plea deal with Ms. Kyle's attorney. And she has agreed, given that she doesn't have any criminal history and no history of violent offenses, she's going to plead guilty to a second-degree mitigated murder charge where she is going to get 13 and a half years with credit for time served. And when after lunch break, we're going to be walking into court for her to to to to make her plea. And and that's what's happening today. Oh my gosh. And I and then he said, You're welcome to make a statement at this hearing if you choose to do so. And I stood up and I was like, I'm gonna need a minute. Now keep in mind, my my doctor had had me on like a standing prescription for Xanax for the last year of this because it like I couldn't sleep. It was the only way I could I could function. And I had taken, I think, a half of a Xanax before we walked in there, and we'd been in there for a solid 45 minutes to an hour at this point. So I'm I'm pretty, I'm pretty calm given the circumstances. And I walked outside because I needed to make a phone call. I called one of my coworkers and I was like, hey, Nikki, like, go log into my computer, email me this file. This is what's happening. That's the statement that I'd been writing for the last six months. And so she got it sent over for me so that I could get it printed. And apparently, when I walked out of the room, the gentleman that I had just given the business in the room just kind of callously said, I don't know what she's overreacting for. We didn't have to tell her anything. And my mom What a jerk, man. What a jerk. Which is which is actually not true. I've done a lot of research over the last year as I was preparing for the fact that I knew that she was going to be released this year. She was released in January. Her her sentence was done. But yeah, what he said is actually not true. But my mom said, she told me after the fact what was said in the room after I walked out, and she said that she leaned over the table and she looked at him and she said, You better thank God that you did not say that in front of my daughter, because nobody in this building would have been able to get her hands out from around your neck. And he just kind of paused. And I I came back in and they were like, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna recess and you know, we'll we'll go into court. We'll let you guys know when we're ready. And I remember I walked outside and I was sitting on the curb and I was livid, like I'm just fuming, like there should be steam visibly coming from my ears. And their dad walks over to me and kneels down in front of me. And he was like, I just, I'm just I just need this to be over for you. I just need you to be able to move on. You know, I'm gonna live with this for the rest of my life. I'm gonna be in therapy forever. And I literally I remember just looking at him dumbfounded. And I just kind of made this, you know, this face. And his dad walked over and put his hand on his shoulder and he said, Son, I think you just need to leave her alone. And I looked at him, I kind of smirked, like, yeah, that's a really good idea. Like, like, I can't believe that you have the audacity to to come over here and tell me that you need healing for me. Like, you you deserve, sir, to to be in jail with her. You don't deserve to be walking free when you allowed this, like your incompetence as a functioning adult human male that has relied on the the work of whatever female it is that you are involved with at that time is what allowed this situation to happen in the first place. Uh, you like you allowed this bottom feeder into our child's life and allowed this to happen. So, you know, sorry, not sorry, kick rocks. Get away from me. Did you get to read your statement? I did. I I it was I I'm not necessarily proud of the the mental space that I was in, because I I if I recall correctly, the the opening part of it was that you know that I I had forgiven her for my own sanity and that by the grace of the God that I believe in, I was able to do that. But that I also understood that the the God that I serve is a very merciful God, and that he genuinely offers forgiveness to people who come to him with an open heart and spirit of repentance and actually ask for it. And that because of my faith, I genuinely hoped that she lived in denial of it for the rest of her life and that she never asked for forgiveness because I knew that my God would give it to her, and I didn't think she deserved it. And I said, you know, maybe one day I won't feel that way, but that's that's where I'm at. She I didn't look up, I think except for just one time. My my mom said that even the judge appeared to have tears as I read the statement, that there really wasn't a dry eye in the courtroom, but said that she never looked up once. She looked down at the ground the entire time, like she couldn't even look at me. And and and I'm I'm like I'm okay with that. It's it's it's sad. Like I'm I'm actually at a com I'm a very, very different mindset about the entire situation now, you know, nearly 12 years later. I feel like I feel like a lot of my anger and and rage about the entire situation as I went through the the stages of processing it, have come from the fact that I was Asher was robbed of the opportunity for a jury of 12 people to decide what actually happened. And again, like before anybody judges the statement that's going to come out of my mouth, like I I I pray that nobody is ever in a position to have to process something like this. But in in my opinion, if if the jury would have said, hey, you know what, like this this sounds like it was actually a horrible, horrible accident. I don't think she meant to kill him. She was pregnant with a clearly deadbeat who she's now having to take care of his kid. And in a moment of horrible lapse of mental judgment and pregnancy hormones, you know, she she pushed him, she panicked. Did she do the things she should have done immediately after? Because she didn't. Like she she closed the door and she walked out. He was unconscious. The I heard from people in McNary County that were close with other friends and stuff that like she she just walked out into the other room. She went back to check on him because she heard him quote unquote flopping around like a fish in the other room. She called a friend of hers who told her to put him in a cold bathtub to stop the seizures. When that didn't work, she got him out of the bathtub, dried him off, redressed him, and put him back on the floor, and was later instructed to call 911, but called like several other people in the meantime. There's there's a lot of rumors and speculation about whether or not Anthony was actually home when it happened, and that the delay of time in calling 911 was to give him an opportunity to get to work because he worked nights and to be seen on camera receiving the emergency phone call as like, you know, the alibi that, you know, oh, well, you're, you know, you're just a you're a pregnant white girl, like you're gonna get off on this. You know, they're they'll never, you know, and It it's all speculation. Like none of us will ever actually know what happened. Uh, and I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. God knows what happened. And if if he finds it fit to ever reveal it to me, then then it will be. But I I I think my rage comes from the fact that an assistant district attorney during an election year for the DA's office made the decision of what a jury of 12 people would have decided. And if if they would have said, no, this isn't first degree murder, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna opt into a lesser included charge and child abuse, and we're gonna hit her with that, I I would have accepted that because that's what 12 reasonable, unbiased people came to the conclusion of what actually happened. And and and I just I felt like he was robbed of that. And and I had no idea that a plea deal was even being discussed. And in in Tennessee, while a victim's family doesn't have the ability to say, absolutely not, you can't make a plea deal, they are legally obligated to know what is happening and their input is supposed to be considered when these things are taking place. That's it's a it's a legal right that victims' families have. And none of that was ever explained to me. And you know, like I went down a whole rabbit hole. Like, should I go after this date? Like, should I fight this injustice, even though it won't change the outcome of my case, but maybe it'll change the outcome of somebody else's in the future. And and that it was it weighed heavy on me for for a while, even just in the last year, and and and God took that off of my heart and it it wasn't sitting there. And I was like, okay, that's that's not my battle. That's not the battle you want me to fight. So I'm gonna leave it alone. And yeah, fast forward to today, I I I don't have it all together, you know. I I that wasn't the end of it wasn't the end of my trauma. I, you know, no, I I remarried again and picked up my life and moved to Middle, middle Tennessee where nobody knew who I was and and and thought that I was having something that was more stable. And in reality, I just I I ended up with I ended up in another situation where I was trying to fix something that was not my responsibility to fix and and and that person had their own demons and their own struggles. And did you have kids together? No, we didn't, we didn't have any kids together. It just it was it was a very tumultuous relationship to to say the least. And it it ultimately we were we were in the process of filing for divorce because there was there was a lot of verbal abuse and and and control and manipulation and and things like that that happened through the entirety of of the relationship. I just, you know, at that point I was like, I can't, you know, like I don't want to do this to my daughter again, you know, like there has to be some stability and you you start to you start to kind of think that like something is wrong with you, right? Like like all these things are like I'm the common denominator here. And and so when people say things, especially if especially if if there's even a tinge of narcissism, and and this was way more than just a tinge of narcissism, you you believe it. And I I was in a, you know, uh, it didn't get there was there was never any physical abuse until like right at the end. And that was my that was my end point. I've I've always been a person like you know, I've I always like, you know, verbal abuse isn't that bad, and it's it's a that's a justification thing. Verbal abuse is abuse. I don't care any way that you've been it. Uh abuse is abuse. Um, and and shame on anybody who says anything other than that. Because if it if it starts out that way, you're you're just you're in arm's reach of it turning into something else. That's always how it starts. But it there was some uh addiction that came into play, uh, which is you know a a point of contention for me because there was a it was an abuse of prescription ADHD medication that led to a prolonged state of delusional psychosis.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

And this was your husband that was in he had he had the abuse that led to psychosis during the marriage. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

We I we got married in in 2019 and in 2023, the summer of 2023, everything just kind of like snowballed. And I mean, everybody that was around me saw it coming, and I just kind of brushed it off because I I work 60 hours a week and I'm not, you know, like I'm not home.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

I'm like, you know, there's there's good times too, you know, which is the typical justification that everybody makes when you're a lot of women a lot of women that go through abusive verbal abuse, that is a typical excuse that they say, and that they especially if a woman has had a failed relationship or couple failed relationships, a narcissist will use that against them as leverage. Anything that women tell them in private or men, this can happen to men too, but anything that they tell them in private because they're a partner and they think that they're to be used is close and they're trying to process their trauma that they went through in the past, they will bring it up. I mean, all that is clear typical narcissistic behavior. If you don't understand it, study it. People are like, oh, the word narcissist is overused. Yes, it is. If you don't understand it, if you don't understand it, just because somebody's acting weird or they'll they act a certain way, you know, 20% of the time does not make them a narcissist because other everybody has narcissist capabilities. However, it's when you choose to do abuse with that and you're choosing to be that person all the time. Is everybody perfect? No, nobody can sit on a podcast or an interview panel and say, I have not done this, or I wish I had said this better. We have all made mistakes. But if you choose to continually berate somebody and act a certain way and not change from relationship to relationship, that is narcissistic behavior. And a lot of it, a lot of narcissists come from unprocessed trauma that happened to them, especially in men. It's either their mom's gone or their dad's gone or whatever. Women usually fall you, women that don't have a dad. I found out in it from from the women that I talk to that went through domestic abuse or verbal abuse or multiple relationships, they come from not have daddy issues, not having daddy there. I say this on multiple podcasts. Dad either dad couldn't be there, wasn't there, dad chose not to be there, all the things, and they don't know. We talked about this a little bit yesterday, how to act, and they go to they they think that this narcissist person is or love bombing them, is finally showing them the love and attention. My savior, my savior, because it's amazing at first until it's not. And then when you start to realize it and you come out of this illusion of a person that you were with is really not who they are, the mask is off. You're in love with the idea of them, not them. Then they start using those mental games that you told to them, like, hey, you know, I I've told you about this experience I went through, they're gonna use it against you, and that's why it's so important, young men and young women, if you're listening to this, to please be careful who you choose as partners. The red flag and the gut instinct is a true thing. Please listen to it. And if you've been through it, get healing, get therapy, work on yourself. I cannot stress that enough. Use two therapy with so don't talk about it. It means you're crazy. Yeah, it's taboo. It doesn't mean you're crazy. People that go crazy are the ones that don't process trauma, that don't heal from their therapy because they bleed on other people. So everybody needs somebody to talk to.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

Like you have to, you have to be able to vent it. And I think I think what's what's what's wilder is that like I I came to the conclusion that I needed to leave because I I started to see the the same the same prescriber that that had actually diagnosed him with ADHD and was medicating him. I was also seeing him because I've had you know like I said, I've had ADHD since I was like two. And I finally found a medication that I wasn't allergic to. And I was like, okay, maybe this is gonna work. And so I started seeing him. And as a result, like, you know, I had to see him every so often and you know, and because he did therapy at the same time. And I was like, well, like this is a perfect opportunity for me to start to work through some of my unprocessed trauma. And I started to get stronger as a result of that, and that's when things started to get worse. And then you throw in the abuse of of this controlled substance, and it it it it it was it was a literal recipe for disaster. And there was a single solitary incident where he struck me and I was like, that's it, I'm done. Um, I he he was arrested and and and taken out of the home. And and then there was another incident where he was arrested again, and my my overly nurturing personality not recognizing. I mean, I verbally, like I said out loud multiple times that I recognized the amount of risk that I was putting myself in, but nobody else was really willing to do what needed to be done. And he was getting, he was getting released from jail. He didn't have a phone, like he was in like a rental car, like it was just the most bizarre situation. I had talked to people that he was working with to figure out what was going on, and I made the decision to pick him up from the jail, having no idea what the result was that of that was going to be, and put him, got him into a mental health facility. And he was released, you know, a couple days later and then went on a road trip that I had to catch a red eye and and and fly to Oklahoma and then drive him all the way back to Nashville. Um that day I had just started a new job. Um I was kind of put in a position where I had to leave the the place that I'd worked at for six years and another manipulation thing. I'm like, if I just do this, my life will be easier. And that that next the very next day I went to work and you know, trying to close out my month and I get home and he'd been just a jackass all day long and just saying mean, nasty, hateful things. And keeping like I've already filed for divorce. Like I just spent a stupid amount of money on a divorce attorney and and and jumped through nine gates of hell to try to save him from himself. And I got home and he starts in on his nonsense again. And I'm like, you know, like just give me like I just walked in the door, like, can I just breathe? Can you just leave me alone for a second? And he grabbed his keys. I was like, cool, he's gonna go get his own Gatorade because I remember he'd asked me to go get him a Gatorade or something. He didn't feel good, he was dehydrated. And he walked out the door, and I never heard anything, but I like I heard from inside the house that there was this really weird, like roaring sound. And I had just bought a sports car, like as a midlife crisis thing. And I was like, he grabbed my keys, like he's out there trying to blow up my car or something, you know, like they'd go figure out that's the kind of stuff that would happen. I go outside and it's coming from his truck because he's got a diesel truck in the driveway, and it's like my first instinct is like he's trying to like gas himself or something because he's just like just pedaled to the floor, but truck's not going anywhere. And so truck's locked. I go and I grab the keys to the truck and I go outside. It's like right about nine o'clock, I guess. And I walk outside to get the truck unlocked, and I open the door and I push his foot off the gas pedal thinking he's passed out, and I look up and he shot himself in the head and our in your garage. No, in our driveway. He wasn't like, so I have like neighbors coming outside of their homes because they can hear me screaming bloody murder at the top of my lungs out in the driveway, and the light is on inside of the truck. Like, I'm calling 911. I'm texting my neighbor, like, please come outside and help me. Like, this is what happened, and trying to tell people to go back inside their houses. And it's like I would it was traumatizing, you know, like in it, it's hard to explain. And anybody who's been through an abusive relationship and come out on the other side of it will probably resonate and understand the feeling. But it's like, even when you know it's unhealthy, you're you're trying to end it, this is not your problem. Like you've done everything that you can, especially when there's mental health issues that are, you know, like primary to to everything else. Um, like you're like, I've done everything that I can. Like I I should have just washed my hands of this, but for whatever reason I didn't. And it's like it's such a it's such a final thing, right? And it's like, okay, when I was filing for a divorce, that was me making a decision. I'm like, but you you committing suicide while my daughter is upstairs in her bedroom, you know, and I'm like, and of course, you like my first instinct is I hadn't even seen my daughter when I got home. She was already upstairs in bed. Like, did he do something to her that I just don't know about yet? Like, I'm I'm in a whirlwind. But you're like, I was I was angry and I was sad and I was confused and I was distraught. I'm like, what have I done so wrong in in my life that it's like one thing after another? Like that's my thought process in this moment. I think my eyes were swollen shut for like three days. I'm numb for days. I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off, trying to like accommodate like his family, and you know, like making arrangements and trying to do everything that I can possibly do to put things together. And and everybody in that time is like coming through for me and trying to be supportive and you know, understanding and you know, being swabbed for gunpowder residue in your home to make sure that you didn't shoot this man is uh humiliating. And you know, like silver lining was that he was a very paranoid man and had cameras all over the outside of the house, not for the reasons that he put them there, because he watched everything that I did. And even though I had disconnected all of that stuff when he was arrested the first time and he was kicked out, I guess during that day he had reconnected all of the cameras. And when the police officers asked about them, I was like, I don't like I don't have access to them. I don't think that they work, but here's his phone. Like, I'm gonna give you the passcode. I think there's an app on the phone that he looks at him with. The entire thing was on camera. Wow. They were like, they were like literally you had been home for like six and a half minutes when he walked outside. They're like, you like you can see you weren't out there, like you can see you react, like we have everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:38

Did he want you to be home when he did it? Do you think?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:41

I don't know. I mean, like, I I've questioned that. Like I'm I'm thankful that it didn't happen inside of the house when I sold it. I would have had to disclose that information, obviously. That would have made it even more difficult to sell. I uh I'm I'm thankful that like I didn't have that mess to clean up. And it, you know, it's it's crazy because I I really I was I I kind of I kind of turned into just like a different person. Like I wasn't I wasn't afraid to die. I wasn't afraid of, I was just like, you know what, this is like this is it. It's it's over, like this is the end of my story. I'm just I'm gonna I'm just gonna do what I want to do and make myself happy. And you know, I'm like, I'm I'm not dating anybody ever again, like I'll be damned. I I I sent my daughter to go live with my mom in Memphis, gave her power of attorney and sent her down there for several months because I'm like, I I I couldn't even physically take care of myself at that point. I was in no position to try to take care of a teenager. And luckily, my mom and my daughter are very, very close. I brought her home in February. So this happened October 2nd of 2023. So February 2024, I moved her back home. I was like, you know, I need to, I just need to get my life together, time to time to get it together.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:11

You needed to finally stop and heal. Yeah. You had just been going through one traumatic experience after another. And it's almost like when that happens and you constantly feel like your head's underwater, up, up for air, underwater, up for air. You don't have time to heal, you're just going through the motions. And then finally it's like, you know, when a bomb goes off and you hear the just the the noise, you hear the ringing in the ears. It's kind of like you just get to that point where you can't see nothing but ringing in the ears. You have to heal, you know? Yeah. So yeah. I so many people can re understand that.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:41

I like I I I stuck with my therapist and and tried to just like push through with work, and I I came up with this bright idea because I like I when I when I bought the house that we lived in, I I wanted a brand new house. I wanted a new build. I was the one buying a house. And, you know, just like a a manipulator and and controlling narcissist does, I wasn't allowed to buy a new house even though he had nothing to do with the transaction. And I ended up buying a house that he was in love with. Pretty house, but you know, it wasn't me. And I was like, you know what? I was like, I hated this bathroom when I bought this house. I'm gonna redo it. I'm gonna remodel this bathroom. I'm like, uh, you know, there's enough YouTube videos on the planet, I can figure this out. And I went on a shopping spree at Home Depot and started a couple little projects and spent a couple thousand dollars on tile and then had an epiphany when I got home. I was like, Ashley, you don't know how to do tile and nor can you afford to have your bathroom torn apart for the next eight months because you're trying to figure out how to remodel the bathroom and you don't know what you're doing. And I remember, I remember posting on Facebook. I was like, I said, all right, like I just went on a Home Depot shopping spree for for a bunch of tile and I don't know how to do tile, uh, Nashville area. Who you got? And a couple people responded, and there was a particular gentleman that just commented, just sent you a message. And I was like, okay, and I just go and I check my inbox, and it's this person that I had literally just accepted a friend request from, like literally the day before, maybe two days before. We had one mutual friend that I used to work with, and it's like this person is not the kind of person who just is friends with everybody all willy-nilly. And I was like, okay, so he this is probably like a decent person, whatever. So I accepted it, hadn't interacted at all. And he's like, I'm literally a contractor, that's what I do. Like, what are you what are you trying to do? And so we started talking, and uh, and I had I I'm pretty sure, like I mentioned, I was like, you know, I my I hated this house. And like I my my ex told me I could not remodel our bathroom. And so screw him, I'm doing it. And I don't think he realized at the time that like he was gone. And we started talking, and I had him come over like two days later. He showed up like eight o'clock in the morning to to get measurements for the bathroom, and and he wasn't even supposed to be the one that showed up. And like he owns this business and at the time had a guy who did all of the bathrooms exclusively, but he was busy and he's like, Okay, well, I'll I'll pop over there and just get everything for you, and then you know, you can take over from there. And and we were inseparable from that moment on. I the next night I remember sending him a message and I was like, Hey, uh, what are you doing? Like, he's like, I'm hungry, need to find something to eat. I was like, Cool, let's let's let's go get something to eat. And he was like, Well, he's like, I've I've got the kids. I was like, dude, it's nine o'clock at night. Like your kids are fine, like they're probably in bed anyway. Like, but what do you what do you like? Let's go get something. I was like, because one of two things is gonna happen. I was like, I'm gonna go fill up my gas tank in this Supra, and either I'm gonna find out how fast it'll go down 840. Or I'm gonna come pick you up and we're gonna go get something to eat. And he was like, Okay, meet me here, like we'll go get something to eat. Um, and we got married three months and three days later.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:22

Wow, wow, and that's and that is your heavy today to this day. He's been your shiny armor. He how does it feel? Was you kind of scared at first? I mean, just to be real, because I always tell people like when you find that person after so much trauma and you realize okay, this is my person, is is is it was it scary or did you just have complete peace this whole time?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:49

It's funny, like I I think like it was it was all like fun and games to me, right? Like we've we've both we've both been married multiple times, we've both had some disaster relationships. We've both been manipulated and used for resources and been made to feel like you know, like we're not good enough or we're too much, or you know, insert ABCD here. And we we both kind of went into it. We're like, all right, look, like we're we're two consenting adults who are traumatized. He had he had you know just ended several year relationship a couple of months prior and was still like sorting through being done with that entirely. They weren't married, and you know, like I had my daughter, and this is like literally like five months later, and I was very concerned with what people were gonna think, you know, like people that were super close to me, they understood they're like, yeah, like you you deserve to be happy, and and members of his family, not all of them felt the same. And and I was trying to be like overly delicate with some of their feelings, which looking back, like I understand that that's a it's a it's a respectable thing to do, but I I gave other people in my life way more power than they should have ever had. And we were both like, this is not a relationship. We just like hanging out with each other, like let's just call a spade a spade. Like, I'm keeping my house, you're keeping your house. We're not gonna live together. Like, we're just like, let's just because we're like we could be best friends. Like, I I haven't gotten to travel, he loves to travel, like you know, we're just we just had so much fun together and we connected on so many different things. And like I damn sure never wanted to get married again, and he had told everybody on the planet he was never getting married again. And I I remember he had gone out of town for his birthday on like a quick little trip or whatever. And and I remember like I remember telling him, I was like, I was like, like, I like I'm in I'm in love with you. And or or no, I'm sorry, I take that back. He like he was calling and texting and stuff. I was like, you're supposed to be like on vacation, like you're supposed to be having fun for your birthday. Like I'm I'm here painting, I'm just doing my thing. Like, you don't have to check in with me. And um, I remember he was like, he's like, what do you want? I was like, what are you talking about? Like, what do you mean? What do I want? And he was like, you know what I mean? What do you want? He was like, I know what I want. And he's like, I want you. Do you want me? And I was like, Well, yeah. He's like, Okay, then it's settled. I was like, Okay, like that, that that was easy. Like this that we weren't supposed to be doing a thing, but I guess we're doing a thing. Um and and then like he came home, and I think just a couple days later, I was like, dude, like I'm in love with you. And then we went to Nashville and like kind of celebrated his birthday there. And and the next day he was like, you know, he's like, I think if things continue the way that they're going, like, I'm I'm gonna marry you. And we had this trip planned to celebrate my birthday. And it like it, it was kind of a joke, but not really a joke. It's really just like kind of like tossing the line out there. And I was like, hey, like, if we're kind of convinced that this is just like where this is going anyway, I was like, I was like, you think it would be funny, like if we just got married while we were in Chattanooga and just didn't tell anybody? Like, you know, we could tell the kids, but like we don't have to tell anybody, like we just continue our lives, everything looks the same, and then you know, maybe one day we'll throw a party and be like, Oh, hey, by the way, we've been married for like three years. And he was like, Yeah, let's do it. I was like, Wait, what? Like, seriously, and he was like, Yeah, let's do it. And I was like, Oh crap, well, like we're leaving like two weeks, we need to get this together. And and so like we went and got our marriage license and and had everything ready, and and we were leaving to go out of town, and had a had a buddy of ours like sign off on everything, and so like we were legally married on our way to Chattanooga, and very, very dear friend of his, it was a surprise for me. I had no idea. I thought we were just gonna go like take some pictures and stuff out in the mountains, and we get up there and we're walking down this path. And I knew we had dinner plans, so we're all dressed up and we're walking down this path. And I look down and I recognize the face from Facebook, and it's friends Danny and Jess and their son, and she's ordained, and we got married right there on the cliff in Chattanooga in front of a bunch of strangers who are like cheering and ranting and raving. And um, and again, this is all supposed to be a secret, only our kids know. And I think I told my mom and like maybe like one or two people, and we get back to our cabin and like amazing dinner. Like, he's got me this Highland cow birthday cake, and we get back and it's like 12:30 at night, and I'm posting a bunch of the pictures that we took, and yeah, because I mean, like, there's nothing wrong with like having a little photo session, you know, like with the person with well, didn't realize that a couple of the pictures that I posted accidentally like showed our rings. Oh, and I like rose, and I was like, Oh crap, like I was like, babe, what like what do you want me to do? And he goes, you know what? He's like, I don't care, leave them up, leave them up. Somebody figures it out, they figured out I don't care who knows anymore. And I'm like, it's been like four hours, you don't care. He's like, Leave them up, and I think we were all like kind of afraid that there was gonna be a lot of judgment and stuff. Um, and the overwhelming response was nothing but support. Everybody was like, oh my god, like this is amazing. And I think that like the most pivotal moment was realizing that like even though like I was I was angry, like and I I struggled like for for a not really significant time. And like I struggled like a a normal person would struggle even in a even in an abusive relationship. But like I realized one day, I was like, you know, like nothing that happened with my ex was was my fault. Like I I I never did any of the things that that he was notorious for accusing me of. Um everybody that knew me knew that. And I was like, you know, this it it was God. Like God knew what he was gonna do before he even knew that he was gonna do it. Could he have stopped it? Yeah. Could could he have said, hey, Ashley, I need you to walk outside, something's wrong, and and you know, like put that on my heart to intervene. He could have. But God removed me permanently from a situation that I refused to fully remove myself from. And even though it was still another checkoff trauma mark on on my task list for life, there there was absolutely a lesson learned. And it again, like I like I I genuinely, I hate, I hate that that's how it had to end. I I don't I don't wish that on anybody. Like I I I I like I I hurt for I hurt for his family and and for like his son. And I know that that they have struggled immensely. And like and I like my heart still goes out to them, even though I have had to completely remove all of them from my life. I'm I think I I I like still have contact with maybe one or two family members that are they're not even blood relation, they're like through marriage and like aunts, uncles, or something like that, that are just like really, really good, God-fearing people that have been nothing but gracious and loving towards me. But I've had to remove everybody else, like even people that I was friends with that were friends with him, um, just to protect myself because of some of the things that were said and the accusations that started to fly after the fact. And I was like, no, like I don't deserve this. And so I just removed myself from it. That was uh I really I have to credit Charles for that because he was like, You you like I don't know why you're still engaging with this. He's like, just block everybody and and remove them. Like you, you you didn't do anything wrong, you don't deserve this, you can't fix it, and and you know, like other people's opinions of you or none of your business in the first place, like just walk away. And that was very hard to do given my my personality, and it's but like I'm for the first time in nearly 43 years, I don't feel like I'm living my life in fight or flight. Like my my my nervous system has relaxed, it's regulated. I I'm able to make like concessions in disagreements to things because I genuinely feel like they're worth conceding to instead of the fear of consequences of not conceding to said thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:18

Um, I don't like my daughter is healthy. I I went from having a daughter, how's her yeah? Like I went from having a daughter who was lucky to pass the grade she was in by the skin of her teeth and having to like submit all of her assignments at the very last minute just to not have an F in a class to having a child who is almost a straight A student. Um she used to just hide in her bedroom and play on her iPad and was unsocial. And now, like, she wants to hang out with us and she's excited to do things and she's come out of her shell. And she asked Charles to baptize her last year. And like it's just it's it's amazing and it's a it's a testament to it's a testament to God's grace because I can I can look back when when people have asked, because I've been asked, like, how are you not angry at God? And I like have this dumbfounded look on my face. I'm like, what do you mean? Why would I be angry with God? Like he's the only one that didn't betray you. Like free free will, like could could he have interceded? Yes, but would that be an interruption of free will? Yes. Like sometimes bad things happen, not because God just allowed it to happen, but because interceding in that thing not happening is a I mean, that's an interruption of free will. Like he he loves us enough to make our own decisions. And I I look back and I'm like, why would I be angry? Like my son loved Jesus. Like, I if I did anything right at all, it was the fact that I took my kids to church when I left their dad. It became a very, very normal thing for us. My my little boy and and Avery too, like both of them were sitting there right front row when I got baptized. And Asher's over here going, Yes, Jesus, thank you. I was like, my friend was like, Don't shush that baby. Like my kids knew who Jesus was. And I look back and I'm like, okay, I can be, I can be mad and just, you know, I think I said yes, or like perpetually pissed off at my circumstances, or I can find the silver lining, right? I know, uh, I know in the depths of my soul that my son never felt an ounce of pain. Like I mentioned, like a lot of my friends are nurses, they're ER nurses. They worked at Laboner. I had one of them actually had another neurosurgeon review Asher's scans, and they all confirmed like there's no way he may have felt like the initial impact, but he was immediately unconscious. He never felt an ounce of pain. That's a miracle.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:21

Like I know that while he laid there on that floor, I know that if not Jesus himself, that there were angels that laid there with him comforting him while he did not know his spirit didn't know what was happening. Like the fact that he was airlifted to Memphis, where I was, and that I was able to be there and see him and didn't have to leave, and that all of these people like miraculously were able to be there and and make their peace with it and say goodbye to him. That was a miracle. The fact that he didn't die there in that room, he was able to die and and and pass in my arms, in the arms of somebody who loved him more than anything in the world. That's a miracle. The fact that I didn't take my own life while I was sitting at home alone in in the days after, and I was left unattended was a miracle because I thought, like, what am I gonna do? But God gave me the strength and said, No, you have a daughter that still needs you, and I'm not done with you. You don't get to tap out yet. Like all of these things, like, and and I don't I don't I don't know what it it what it would have saved us from, you know, like it maybe that incident, because like I said, we were supposed to be going to get him in two weeks to bring him back to us, you know. Avery probably would have been with me. Maybe us not being there stopped us from being in a horrific car accident, all three of us, and all three of us would have been gone. Like, there's uh there's so many things that are unknown. And I try to look at it as that was that was God's protection, that was God's provision, that was his grace, that was his mercy, that was a miracle. And I'm like, I I just I try to just be grateful for all the things that are are and have been revealed over the years of what they were in reality. And I'm like, I and so when people are like, oh, you're you're just so detached from all of your trauma and your reality, or you know, you you talk about it like without any emotional, like you're just telling a story that you're you know, just like reading off of a news prompter. And I'm like, no, because I I can read a story on Facebook about, you know, a firefighter, you know, donating ten thousand dollars to an old man delivering Uber Eats, and I will cry. Like I can't just read off a teleprompter, I will get emotional about things that I'm not even involved in. It's it's it is like it's that there is no other explanation. There's no other explanation. It's he said, Hey, look, like, and and and I make the joke all the time. I'm like, look, man, like I really, really appreciate that you have so much confidence in me as your daughter to handle whatever you're gonna throw at me and to use it as testimony to glorify your name. But I'd really appreciate it if you could turn the confidence down a notch, you know? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Are you, you know, are are are you done yet? And and I've I've said I've said it so many times, and I'll I will continue to say it until I am blue in the face. Like I if if any part of my testimony and my journey, my walk through life, and and obviously like my walk with the Lord is encouragement that gets somebody else through their difficult time, whether it's the same or completely different, or if it leads somebody to start asking the questions about like how do I develop a relationship with God? And it saves even one person. I I would do it all over again. I would do it, I I would do it on repeat for the rest of eternity. I would walk the exact same path because I know that A, I know that the end result is that I end up in a healthy, whole, loving, like communicative and and supportive relationship where two people can just be who they are and and and we know that like no matter what, we're always like we're in this till death do we both part this world. But I I know that like I know that God wins in the end. He always does. He has the final say. And I know that no matter what circumstances I'm faced with, you know, like I I'm just I'm unbothered because I'm like, you know, Ashley, at this point in time, you've been through in the span of 40 years, you went through more than what even, you know, even under terrible circumstances, most people will ever experience in a hundred years.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:48

And and you came out on the other side of the fire without a single scorch mark on your body. So, you know, anytime that there's something that's tossed my way, I'm like, really? Like that's that's all you got? Like, have you not seen the other stuff that I I walked through and God didn't allow it to harm me? And so yeah, like I I don't think I'm superwoman. I I know I'm not. I I I don't I don't even think that I don't even think that my story is really that big of a deal, truth be told. Um it's a huge deal. I don't realize until I I talk to anybody about even part of it, and they're just paused with a blank expression on their faces, they're trying to process what I've just said. But I I think that everybody, I think that everybody has a story. And I think that sharing our stories and even the the hiccups and the bumps and the not pretty parts of it. I think that sharing it and in the hopes that it could help even just one person, just know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. There is a future beyond the chaos if you just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Your tribe and who you surround yourself with absolutely matters. Like there's it's not all rainbows and butterflies, but it doesn't have to be doom and gloom. Like, there's there is something so beautiful in this world that is your actual purpose, and you just have to you just have to trust that you will be given the strength to navigate the course that you've been put on. And it's hard, it's so hard, it's exhausting, but it's so rewarding in the end. Yeah, I'm so so grateful for I I am, I'm I'm truly grateful for the things that I've experienced.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:47

Well, and I'm sitting here looking at notes, you know, looking at my paper here. If anything, if anybody's listening and you're struggling with child loss or abuse or SA, you know, all those things, because we covered every bit of it, you know, we covered it all in your lifetime. God bless your heart. It has been in your life, we covered it all. And Most people, when they do a podcast, they'll cover a little bit of something that happened. And then but you've had so much happen to you. If anything, this shows you what it looks like when you get healing, when you process the trauma and you come out on the other end of it. It doesn't take away the bad things that happened, but it makes you a warrior and you're walking in, like you said, peace right now for the first time in your life. And I'm so thankful for that for you because it honestly, I didn't even know that you had a son that passed away until the other day. And it's not that she, you know, she she don't care or love her son. It's the fact that we're in Bible study together. I see you maybe once a week, but I've known you enough. I'm like, I've got she's a girl's got a story. I've got to get her like God kept pushing me, like you've got to let her tell your story. Yeah. And I'm so glad it happened. But I knew when you told me it happened, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. But after hearing the detail and what went into this, because I did not want you to go back. Like I told you before we started, you tell as much as you want to, and how and you stop when you stop, because I did pretty good yesterday and meant to cry, but today I knew I wasn't going to be able to make it through that crying. I think all the listeners that have listened are probably crying, but I think there's also some healing for people that have gone through it. If you're going through it and you don't know what to do, and you don't know how to start your healing journey, reach out to Ashley, reach out to us on Unstoppable. We would love to help you find those resources to be able to start that journey yourself because life is hard. So so many things. And don't think that your situation is a lot less because you haven't gone through something that traumatic. Trauma's trauma, and you still need to process it no matter what. So please don't put yourself in a bubble like, well, this hasn't happened to me. That's why I think so many women that go through verbal abuse are like, Well, I'm not getting physically abused. Well, you can still have PTSD. Right. You can still have PTSD. And like we said yesterday, it's not that bad until it is that bad. You think it's never going to happen, and then it happens, you know. So trust your gut, know those red flag things. God gives us that wisdom discernment. Pray to him. Find yourself a good church. This is a faith-based channel, not trying to push religion out anybody's throat ever, but find yourself a good faith-based church that preaches the Bible, that loves Jesus, a community of women outside of church. If men, if you're a man, community of men, we have that in the Bible, babe. We're so blessed, Ashley, to have that. We are and if anything, it shows you that we don't judge because it's easy to look at somebody's story. And before I went through my life experiences, I didn't realize how judgmental I was unintentionally, just how I was brought up. And now I could look at people with more grace. Yep. I mean, sometimes people are space or spades, and God gives you that wisdom discernment. But I look at people with more grace and more, oh my gosh, what made them that way? Who hurt them? Even the people that hurt me, like things that you know that I go through in my life. I'm like, I want to be so mad and in my flesh and be like, why are you this way? But then I find myself praying for them. And I'm so thankful for that. After I get mad, and I'd be like, sorry, God, I thought I could pray out there and get mad. You know, they don't know it. I'm gonna have a conversation in my head about it, but I'm like, okay, God, you know. But I find myself praying for people that have hurt me, and that's God. That's how you can learn to forgive, that's how you can move on. And you know, I think that that is such a beautiful part of your story that you found that peace. And I'm so thankful for you and your daughter that you have that, and you have that Charles, and you have that, you know, in you know, his children as well. So that's just such a blessing. So if you could leave anybody, Ashley, with one piece of advice before we wrap this up. Now, that we normally, this is normally an hour podcast, but we went two hours today, which I was totally cool with because I wanted to get to the depth of the story. Yeah, an hour yesterday. So go back and listen to part one. Hopefully you did before you listen to part two. If you could leave with one final thought to these listeners, what would you like to leave them with?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:13

Oh I uh one thing, and and I actually I have it, I have it tattooed on my flesh. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:33

One day at a time, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:35

Always, one day at a time. There is you'll get there is always a purpose in in everything that we experience in life. And unfortunately, unfortunately, the the the enemy that exists, whether you are a faithful person or just believe in karmic experiences, the enemy is out there and it is his mission to make you believe that everything is just random, but everything that we experience is used to work for good for whatever our story and our testimony is going to be. And we have a responsibility to heal from it and work through it and turn around and use the blessing that we came through on the other side of it to bless the lives of other people and to help other people. And and I just I hope that if anybody takes anything away from this, it's that today is never the end until it's the end. Um just keep just keep going. Keep going.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:43

Absolutely. Very well said, very well said. Well, Ashley, thank you so much. I know this was not easy, but thank you for sharing that very personal piece of your life. I hope it blesses many people. I hope that if you're listening and you know somebody that's struggling and going through something similar, send it to them. I hope it blesses them. That's my prayer is that we help heal. We help heal trauma and we help say it's okay not to be okay. You know, it's okay to get help. It's okay. Yep. And that's the community that we that we want to be around. So thank you all so much. And we will see you at the next podcast. Y'all have a wonderful, unstoppable day.