Do You Know Who’s Hiding Behind Your Mask?

How do you know if you are wearing a mask that is hiding the most authentic and powerful version of yourself? And if you are, how can you remove it? In this theatrical and poignant conversation with Susan Sandler, we literally reveal how you can know if you are being the most authentic version of yourself and what you can do if you discover that you aren’t. 

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Transcript

The mask that I put on, which was to get approval

actually helped me survive a tumultuous childhood.

Hi, this is Adina here with today's episode of Courage to be Curious with Adina Tovell and this is our first episode in the month of October, where if you're getting our newsletter, you know that we have entered into the theme of thinking about the masks that we wear, how we use those masks, do we use them to shield us to hide us to play other roles? And when might they actually keep us from being who we actually really are, when might be we be afraid to step out from behind them. So we're thinking about all of this because our focus is using our courage to be curious to get internally curious so we can be outwardly authentic and so we are getting curious this week. And to help us get curious I am so incredibly excited is we have a dear friend, colleague performer all around really funny person, Susan Sandler. And Susan, let me just first say hi and how excited I am to have you for the first time on this podcast show. This is long overdue. A absolutely is. And for those of you who don't know Susan yet, Susan, aside from being all those wonderful things I just said is also a TEDx speaker, a theatrical public speaker, a clarity strategist and fear Buster because she does coaching in those realms and executives and corporate coaching as well. She specializes in guiding and inspiring people who are in midlife to bring their dreams to life. I love Susan is an expert in personal organization organizational transformation. We're going to be talking about Susan Susan's approach to transformation both internally herself and the way she brings it forward. And she's led organizational and leadership programs for companies like Merrill Lynch, the vanguard group, and national nonprofit of Big Brothers Big Sisters of America. And I love this but Susan accidentally became a theatrical public speaker at the age of 63. Talk about a midlife transformation. And her powerful TED Talk, punch fear in the face and claim your life we should all have that up there punch fear in the face and claim your life as our mantra for daily living, received a standing ovation at TEDx Wilmington, and I was so grateful I was there. I was part of it, the initial launch of that. And it was TEDx focused on women. And she also has written her own she's written and performed her own one woman show called wings. And we may get a little glimpse into that today. And she is in the middle of writing her first book called midlife magic. So Susan, oh my gosh, this is gonna be so fun. So glad to have you here.

My father was mentally ill, and he rolled the roost. And because of that, what I learned was that in order to keep him sort of the steady I, I had to perform, you know, and that's really what the what how my one woman show starts is how I got reinforced for wearing these masks of adoration.

All right.

Susan, I want to start off and ask me because first of all, you said that you became an accidental theatrical public speaker. And since we're going to be talking about performance and the kind of the masks that we wear, how did you become an accidental theatrical public speaker?

Well, what happened was at 59, I lost the job that I loved. The organization moved, and I chose not to move with them. So here I was, and I wasn't sure what I was going to do. But I decided since I had done internal public internal consultation, that maybe I could have my own business so I joined this organization called Book Yourself Solid, and to learn how to market and sell and I was I was terrible. I was just terrible. All my fears. All my demons rose up to meet me. But one of the things that I experienced was the teacher, the founder, Michael Port. He was also he was a professional public speaker, like he would earn gazillion dollars for like a 45 minute speech. And one day, he had the seminar where he would coach people on stage to deliver a speech. These were ordinary people, you know, when account news talking about taxes, and the after one hour, it was like he transformed them. And I saw this, and I thought, you know what, I am so sick and tired of being afraid. I know, this guy can help me. And so when he opened up a school for public speaking, and it was like a lot of money, I was the first one to join the program. And when I started, I, again, I wasn't doing it to become a public speaker, I was doing it, to be able to find my voice, and stop wearing this mask that I always wore. And within the time that it took to go through the program, he said to me, if you wanted to, you could command a big stage. And that is how I did my design. My first TED Talk did that. And that's what led me to do a one woman show.

You know, who knew, right? But the who knew came specifically out of the decision that you made, I don't want to be afraid anymore. I don't want to let fear be at behind the steering wheel of my journey in life because I from what you're saying fear was driving like it was sitting there with the foot on the accelerator, hands on the wheel, and even programming the radio.

That's right. That's right. You know, what's interesting that would do not is that actually, in actuality, I mean, I had been a singer, when I was a kid for a long, long time I was on television radio, I was not afraid to get on a stage and entertain, although I did have anxiety before I went onstage. And I would do you know, do well then said I would speak and all that. But it had been about 35 years since I had been on a stage. And one of the reasons I left the stage was because of my anxiety.

Which is so powerful, right? Because so many of us can be held back behind the, you know, anxiety. The other thing that I like, though, that I just want to go back to is this idea of when you were afraid and you said I no longer want to be afraid it wasn't like you said you knew exactly what you wanted to do. And you said, Now I'm going to go do that. You said what is something I'm afraid to do and could lean into. And I just like to point that out in all, as we think about the courage to be curious is that sometimes we hold ourselves back so long to have a fully laid out fleshed out detailed plan about something. And sometimes it's just about saying, I'm going to do something. I'm going to lean in somewhere.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, we have to take action before we're ready. Yeah, that's the only thing that allows us to build confidence. And also, to determine whether this is something that I that really lights me up. So that that is the biggest learning that I've had on this journey, is that if you wait until you're ready, you'll never do anything, that is a stretch. So it can't be so big, that you're like terrified. It's like small steps of courage. That's what we're looking for. That's, that's a stretch, but not so much that it's overwhelming.

Right, and that you'll never get there. So let's go to talking about our theme here around masks and the facades because as a performer and as somebody who performed early in life, too, I am sure that there you had to kind of step into a certain persona or a certain way of being in order to perform on stage. And I'm curious as to what you've learned over time about the role of the personas that you outwardly show and how those who started to inform your understanding of the person behind those personas are those masks.

That is a damn good question. As we talk about it, I'm, I want to really dig deep into all the different layers of what you're, you're asking here. I think for me, what I was the mask that I put on, which was to get approval actually helped me survive a tumultuous childhood. My father was mentally ill. And he ruled the roost. And because of that, what I learned was that in order to keep him sort of the steady I, I had to perform, you know, and that's really what the what how my one woman show starts, is how I got reinforced, for wearing these masks of adoration with my father, and listening to his stories, and really giving him the admiration that he was longing for. And in response to that, he gave me the love that I was longing for. And so that is how that mask of not really revealing what was really going on inside came to be so, so much a part of my persona.

You know, it's interesting, and I'm so glad that you brought that up, Susan, because I think when kids are very adaptable, right, we say that all the time. And part of what that means is that kids are influenced and adapt to the environment that they have, for the greatest good outcome, whether that is to keep themselves safe or to, you know, get the love that they want, get the nurturance because kids are driven by the need for that. And it's interesting to hear you talk about how in order to receive what you most wanted, you learned how to perform in a particular way. And then now you actually have a mask, you know, that you wear. But as kids, we often don't stop and say, Oh, I only have to wear that there. And then I should can take it off and live the rest of my life. Oftentimes we end up adopting that and then starting to wear it in different places all throughout our life. So how did that mask continue to impact you through your life?

Goodness, it's impacting me. It's still impacting me. I mean, the journey to transformation. And to me, what that means is, is to be who you really are, without fear that you're going to fall from grace. You're, you're in danger. It's, it's that that's what the goal is. And my experience is that never reached it. Well, maybe like one or two people. Because we're wired for security for to beat, we're always on the alert for for danger. And it's difficult when because of all of our unconscious conditioning, to be able to discern, until we have developed some new patterns and behaviors to discern between what is discomfort, and what is danger. And so when we have this, when our emotions give us this information that we have decided, is danger. That's when we mess up. It's a survival mechanism. And it stood for me, it stood me in good stead. It helped me survive. And it was actually one thing that occurred to me is that one of my gifts is that I had the sense of wonder. I'm a really good listener. At least that's what people tell me.

It's true. It's true. It's true. Because

I had the sense of wonder about like who are you and that's how you think and oh my goodness. So when my father who was a wonderful storyteller, and he was he was a wonderful human being, you know, even though he was ill, you know if he was he had emotional issues. I would just light up and just be able to like, listen and remember, I And he'd shot he was just, you know, we we fill each other up. So sometimes our gifts can when taken to extreme, when they're so unconsciously used when they don't fit can really become a barrier to living in reality instead of in our hips.

And so at what point did you become consciously aware that this mask of approval and that you were wearing that you had developed might not be serving you so well like was there a turning point moment for you was there this period of time during which it's like, Wait a second, what's going on? Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, I came to it kicking and screaming, ready in many places in my life. The first time was when I got married. So I had a history of picking men sort of like my father. And they, they typically were men who didn't know how to love. And then I would try to get them to fall in love with me. And then one of them asked me to marry him. And since he was the only one and I was 35, and Jewish, and you're supposed to get married, right, and I wanted to be Sandy, Sandy, married lady. I said, Yes, I knew he was the wrong man, for me, but he was the only one who asked me and I got my first migraine the day of my wedding. But in any event, 10 years after we'd been married, and it was so awful. That he, he, he, let's put it this way, I had to pay alimony. So with 45, I lost most of my money. And I had to start all over again. That pulling the rug out from under myself was my first wake up call. And that's when I headed into more psychotherapy. And it took two therapists to get me to be real. That is how masked up I was. It that mascot served me well through through most of my life, I was very successful in business. But in the relationship department, I was a therapist dream.

I have to ask you this just because I know even from the clients that I work with, and you know, things I hear from people all the time, you just talked about, you know, I was so masked up and it took two therapists to kind of help me help peel that away so that you could see some authentic version of yourself, especially in relationships. And I think some people sometimes we wonder, Well, how do I know if I'm masked up? I mean, if I've been living that way for just about all of my life, how do I even know that that's true about me, because you probably were not even as aware of that mask until it got started to get peeled away. So if people are listening, they're saying, is that true? A bit about me? How would they know if they were masked? Oh, I know. It's an interesting question. I mean, I won't leave you out here alone on this, but I'm just curious as to your thoughts.

You know, if it's okay with you, let me let me sort of explore my way through that. I don't know that we know that we're messed up. I think what happens is that something usually traumatic has to happen for us to where our typical ways of being no longer work for us. I don't think we unless you're pretty involved. I don't think we go, Oh, look, I have a mask. All this stuff is so unconscious. I mean, my understanding is from a biology standpoint, but 90% of our being is unconscious, right?

95 to 97, as I understand it, right? Yeah,

right? And your unconscious conditioning, it's unconscious, right? It's reacting to danger signals or loss of love, because you know, if we got rejected by our tribe, when you know the average lifespan was 31 years old. You were dead. So And this unconscious conditioning is free fast, it was like this because you have to be able to react, to protect yourself from danger to mask up to get ready to fight. So I think what happens to most people in my experience is that the rug is pulled out from under you, and you're in pain. It's when your hunger to be more is bigger than your fear. That is usually when we shift, because most people do not change. In my experience, what is it is some statistic, only 10% of people actually achieve their goals. And it's because of our biology. It's not our fault.

Let's not blame ourselves,

I think you know what, it's hard being human. It's hard making a change, a real substantive change.

There are two things it's making me think about. And one is in thinking about the question I posed to you, how do we know when we're masked up, right, and I love these. So let's just go on the journey and explore and see what happens. One of the things that occurred to me is that there is typically some kind of pain, except that it's interesting, because we actually have a pretty high threshold for pain most of us, which means the pain can occur, and we can just keep perpetuating, and then we get the next kind of pain and the next kind of pain. But if we keep our focus on what's happening outside, it's the external world that's creating the episodes of pain. And so then we do the blame, well, first, I blame my boss, and then I blame my spouse, and then I blame my children, and then I blame, you know, the friends and then I blame the TV, and then I blame politics, right? So I think one of the ways that we can maybe have evidence that we are wearing a mask is that if we find ourselves blaming a lot,

yeah,

you know that then we might say, we're ignoring something that might be going on here. Because yes, while the world out there has a lot of growing to do, and is not perfect. If we're living in a continuous state of, you know, disgust, or blame and anger and fear, we may have evidence that we're wearing a mask, and we're all masked up, and we're not looking at some things that are worth looking into. So I think maybe that's one piece of evidence, if I talk, throw it out loud with you,

you know, here's another because I was my habit was to blame myself. Hmm. So it was to shape shift must be nice. So what if I did this? Or I did that? You say?

I love that too. Yes. Yeah.

Right. And at some point, it's not adaptive anymore. Maybe that's what maybe that's really what I'm thinking at this moment. It's when it's not adaptive anymore. And you find yourself in a circumstance that tests you. And you need to really behave, respond in a different way. But you're so In your head, in your tapes, and your belief system, it's so strong, that you really don't see that you're, you're filtering your belief system, your own pictures, your feelings, is filtering, what is really going on, and you're not able to be objective. And for me, what was really helpful what's really been helpful is having guidance from people who reflect a different reality who were able to wake me up said that I, I had, I have a different experience of who what are my gifts really are, when I'm real, and how my thinking and beliefs are flawed.

I love the what we're constructing here is a little bit of guidance for people. It's almost like a guide book, how might you know if you're wearing this mask that's keeping you from truly being revealed to yourself and to the world? Right and we're starting to identify how would we recognize some of those things? And so I know we talked about the blaming piece of real outwardly finding faults and I think here you're talking about am I shape shifting do I constantly try to mold or shaped myself in order to make it work or in order to be what I think the environment is, you know, requiring or expecting of me. And so all of these things can start to build up. Okay? how might I know, I know one other piece of, I guess feedback I got was I constantly felt like I was one foot in one foot out. I felt like I was living in a straddled space like I'm, we'll dig it a day in this, but then I seem to have this other foot who that's looking for something else. And then you mentioned this to like seeking like, Is there something more I want my life to be? Do we have the sense of more, and initially are more tends to be what's out there? I haven't claimed her grasp? Yes, yes. And so like, that's another one of those pieces of evidence. And what we're really trying to do is we're trying to feel real, I would even say doesn't this belong sort of foreshadows The Love Episode, maybe. But when we get to relationships, how might we know is that you know, where I'm wanting to feel something with this person that I'm not feeling, you know, I'm wanting something to be rising up here. And so maybe both of us are hiding behind, we're not having these conversations, we feel like our real we're doing all the transactional things, we're raising the kids, we're building the bills, or paying the bills, or we're doing building our careers, whatever it is we're doing, but we don't feel that connection, because we might both be masked up. So I love that this conversation is almost becoming like a checklist of how might I know if I'm there, right?

You know, I want to share this, it's and maybe this is very obvious, but you triggered something in me. One of the ways we know his feedback. Um, you know, as, as someone who has done has been doing executive coaching, coaching just forever, one of the one of the most impactful interventions that you can do with someone you're coaching is to get have them get feedback from the people that they work with, at different levels of the organization, and then share it with them. And, and I usually ask two questions when I'm soliciting feedback. One is something about what is particularly special or unique about so and so would you would really admire about them. And then the other is, what is one thing that if they changed, could be even more effective, even more effective, not a negative, even more effective. And then what I do is I put that together, and I share it with the person. And most of the time, they are shocked. It's like they can't ignore it now. Right? Here it is black and white, it's not just one person, it's not just your mother, it's not that crazy old, you know, and down the street. It's like, these people are all saying similar things, both about what they really value and appreciate about you. And what is changed, could, would be even better. It could be even more effective. So many times, it's like when you get fired, that's feedback. You know, when you're interviewing for something that that really matters to you, and you don't get it, that's feedback, when when you have a failure, that's feedback, a teacher gives you feedback. So the data is typically all around us. But as you said, if we blame the other person where we masca, or whatever it is, we have learned to do to protect ourselves if we do those things. And don't get curious about Oh, look, wonder what that's about? Oh my Tell me more, if we don't have the courage to be curious, both within ourselves, like who we really are under all the masks and all the condition and, and to get curious with the people who have different perspectives. We don't see.

We don't see ourselves and then we don't really see others either. And so we I love this, Susan, I actually think worth is going to make a great blog. We've kind of given what are the criteria, how do you know and so let's just shift now to the second part of the conversation, which is okay, now we know we're masked up, how and you're a transformation expert too. And you've brought this into your theater, you've brought it into your work, it's let's talk about maybe I don't want to be masked up anymore. What does transformation look like?

I would say that transformation is, well, it's, it's changed, but it's actually using your gifts to make the world a better place. And it's also not being afraid to feel what you feel and express what you need to express. without, without the emotional charge. And what I mean by that is I'm talking to you right now. And maybe I get angry, maybe you say something that makes me feel angry. I don't just blurt out my anger, it's more about, Oh, look, I'm angry, and I can talk about it without the emotional charge. So it's really about being fully self expressed. But in a way that is kind of, it's hard to explain, it's like more, more real. Oh,

sometimes I talked about, I think what you're mentioning as you're able to both be in your experience, but to observe yourself in your experience, too. And so you can play the additional role of being the observer so that you can say, okay, that angers interesting, like not just be angry, and then all the fallout that comes from fully expressing your anger, but you observe yourself in your anger so that then you have more options and more opportunities. Yes,

it's about making a choice. Being able to make the choice, because that's the only thing that separates us from other species is that human beings have a choice to behave a certain way not to behave a certain way, we have a different way.

So let's talk about your show here. wins. Okay, so I want to talk about because wings is really about your own transformation in midlife. And so tell us a little bit about both the inspiration for creating wings. And how was wings transformational for you?

Oh, boy.

I know I never asked the small question.

Oh, no, you don't. I'm gonna have to nap after this.

It takes courage and stamina to be curious. Yeah, maybe what? Dad's dominant.

Right? Well, the inspiration for wings was really, you know, after I did my TEDx talk, and I got the standing ovation, and people were saying, Oh, my God, this changed my life and all this kind of stuff. I decided that the story was really incomplete, because it was mostly about my mother's transformation, at 50 years old, and how her personal transformation changed all of our lives forever. But there is this backstory, and it was my, my personal story and what I went through as a result of my father's mental illness, and my mother's response to it, and all the chaos in our family. And so that was the inspiration to do wings. And so I needed a lot of help to do it. I mean, I was not a trained actor, I was a singer. I really had never taken an acting lesson. And I also didn't know how to write a show. So I hired someone who helped me write it. And then I hired a director, who helped me with the movement and the staging of it, etc. And through this process, again, with as with every transformation I've ever been through, and I've been through a number of different transformations over my life, or my own demons, or Rick came up to me. The first time I did the show, which was as a keynote for a business conference. My throat went completely dry. And at the same time, I was able to do the show. So then the next time I did it, which was to raise money for charity, um, the same thing happens. But I knew that I could get through it because I had already gotten through before. And so about midway, the dryness was fine, I was fine. And so over time, what I learned was that I got more confidence, the more and more I did it, and that made me become freer, and helped me connect more to the audience. And the actual experience on the stage instead of worrying if I was going to forget the words and all of this stuff. So that so what I've learned from that is that we build confidence by show proving to ourselves, that we can do it.

Like that, I just want to repeat that out loud, right? We build confidence, because that is one of the huge reasons to pursue transformation is to develop a greater sense of self and greater confidence, right, and we expand and increase that confidence, the more we prove to ourselves that we can do it, and all of us are going to be afraid and the beginning all of us are going to have some aspect of tentativeness or worried that we're going to fail, fall on our face, all those different kinds of things. But when we can do it and step up and realize that we can, then the confidence increases and the confidence in that, who I am, how I come to be expressed, is a beautiful thing. Like I am beautiful. And what I have to express is beautiful and worthy. and meaningful.

Yes. And one of the things that I learned is how to get we're comfortable with discomfort. So I mean, excitement, and feeling anxious, they're part of a continuum. And so what happens, like I know now that because I'm a pro, when I get on stage, I rise up to the occasion. I know that now. So it's not as scary as it was. So when the fear rises up, I meditate. I go deeper inside, I get quiet, I watched my thoughts. You know, I have all these different vehicles now that I've learned to serve to calm my energy, so that I can be in the present moment.

Something that just was an aha, to me as you were talking, I think it might be the first time I've ever thought about this in this way. So it feels like a very exciting moment to me. Cool. But in response to this question of how do we engage in this experience of transformation? You know, I often talk to people about journaling, or, you know, one of the reasons that make can make therapy or coaching so powerful is that it's the telling of our story, right? It's the narration of our story in our experience in our story that actually helps drive the transformation, our willingness to claim it, to deliver it to believe that it's worthy of being shared, whether we're sharing it in a journal, whether we're sharing it with a friend, sharing it on a blog, or sharing it on stage, you know, or sharing it into a reporter whatever it is that thing of placing our experience into our own story, and putting it down somewhere putting it down or out there somewhere. And I thought about this because very often people ask me about journaling, and people don't have many people will say they struggle to have anything very transformative or meaningful come from journaling. And I think what it is because I think back to when I journaled as a teenager where you just write down this is what happened today or I'm so angry at this person today or things like that. What we weren't doing but what I think about Anne Frank is one of the most famous journals that we have out there, you know was doing was she was telling her story. Yeah. And when we tested the difference between reliving feelings or feelings of hurt or shame or anger or things like that, what makes that different because that doesn't transform us telling and reliving and perpetuating the anger and the frustration and the sadness or whatever it is does not typically transform us it actually Meier's us more deeply in there, the thing, but the act of curating, narrating telling our story, I mean, not in any kind of perfect way for performance. All the time, but just telling it as a story, I think that whole experience of story is part of the transformation experience.

Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely. But I think that's why, you know, working with professionals could help me refine my story. So that it was relatable. And where I was in the process of telling it, learning to be real, and vulnerable in the moment, because I play different characters. So when I do my show, I play different characters. I play myself as little different ages, I play my father, I play my little brother, and my mother, and I play the voice of fear inside my head as a character, and I play these two, I was on TV, so I play these different narrators and things like that. So in order to be able to do that, I had to be in the present moment, and be vulnerable. And, you know, one of the things that I think it's important that I've learned is that, because one of the one of the masks I wore, I don't know if it's a mask, but it's always very perfectionist, right? I had to be like, perfect. That was part of, you know, if I'm perfect, you know, everybody will love me. And what I've learned is that what people relate to, is when you're not, when you show your own vulnerability, you know, when it's okay to be on stage, to have that moment, that real moment where you're saddened by an experience, it wasn't planned, it just is. And the difference between a performer and someone who's just telling their story, and letting it all hang out, is that you're able to be in the moment and then recover from. And there's nothing more appealing to an audience in my experience, than watching someone fight through an emotion and then regain their composure, and connect. That is what really captures people's hearts.

So Susan, would you be willing to share some little piece of wings with us, and if you are listening on audio, you're gonna get the audio version. But if you are really excited, and you want to see Susan, then hop on over to YouTube, because you can watch this episode on YouTube or this clip. But, Susan, I'd love it. If you would share, give us a little context, maybe, and share a little snippet from wings with us. Okay,

so um, this is actually a piece from almost the beginning of the show. And so you'll see me as a little girl, I've also narrating a little bit, and then you get introduced to my thought. When I was 10 years old, my father decided to adore me. through me, he filled up his empty place. For two years, we've been living in emotional chaos and financial uncertainty. You see, when I was eight years old, my father lost his job. Then we lost our house. And then my father lost his mind. My little girl, life fell apart and I no longer felt safe. Until my father noticed me. My father sudden interest in me again, like this. It's parent Teacher's Day. I'm in the fifth grade. One of my compositions is posted on the classroom bulletin board. It's entitled, my parents don't understand me. My father goes to the bulletin board, takes down my composition and studies it. I hold my breath. So he's gonna be mad. Oh, no. Daddy's making a funny noise. He's laughing. Daddy likes my story. Susie, Susie, this is good. Miriam, Miriam. Miriam was my mother's name, Maria. Our Suzy can write my couldn't make it as a writer, but Susie could remember that feeling. The first time someone you love sees you, really sees you, your talents, your you're willing heart in their gaze you feel special and important. It's a, it's a heady feeling, isn't it to be loved in that way. We chase that feeling. And we do anything to get that feeling back, maybe give up control, maybe quiet our voice and fall in line. Maybe we would do that. Maybe you did. Maybe I did, too. From that time on, my father takes a special interest in my writing. He gives me tips to make my poems and stories better. he'd read me his poems that he'd written long ago. Then one day, I get an assignment, from my fifth grade teacher to write a poem about the new superintendent of schools. I tried to write it, but I can't make it work. So of course, I go to daddy for help. He gives me some ideas, but I still can't write the poem. Finally, he writes the poem. For me. Here's how it went. The light of learning seems to glow in school, we see it everywhere. And everybody seems to know that he has helped to put it there. I was in the fifth grade. And I submitted that poem. as mine. They made me editor in chief of the school newspaper. I was to shake. Daddy was thrilled. That was the beginning of my losing my voice. I didn't want to lose my father's love. So I kept quiet. And so it went.

Well, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Wow.

I'm reminded in this, you know, piece here that you just shared, how often it happens, whether it be a parent, or a teacher, or another child on a playground or a sibling, one act, one comment, sometimes a look can suddenly create a shift in our internal experience that sticks to us so tightly, that it then forms the path for just the path of what's to come. Yeah. And in that moment there, right. Your voice, your relationships, your voice was altered for a very long time.

Yes. Yes.

So Susan, I so appreciate the conversation we've been having today. Because as the introduction to this theme, around the masks that we wear, how we've come to be wearing them, how they were formed and shaped how we can come to recognize their existence. And then what are some of the pieces of transforming coming out from behind them to find perhaps a self that has either been hidden for a long time or hidden for the whole life, that we've never even seen certain parts?

Yes. And

that this is really it's taking us launching us onto a journey this month, where I hope that what listeners are going to be able to do and that we're all going to be able to do is really take time to pause and sit with this for our own selves, to sit with the kinds of explorations we've engaged in today. To see how it fits with us. We're in the month of October, right and at the end of the month will be this fun time when many people put on masks and sometimes putting on those masks allows us to express some little part of ourselves that we don't get to reveal every day. And in our explorations, we can also get curious about what masks we might not even be aware or walking around with every

day. That's true.

So Susan, I often ask people, you know, what is the question you would like to pose to listeners? What would you like people to reflect on as a result of this conversation?

Well, this is actually it's a series of questions that I asked at the top of my show. And it's, it's this, what could you accomplish? If you didn't let fear stand in your way? What would you try? What would you learn? What would you allow yourself to experience? Who might you become?

Leaving a pause there for people to be able to sit with that? And to know, fortunately, they're

on podcasts or video, they can rewind and capture them?

So Susan,

I love the way that you approach this work. And so how can people if they're interested, I mean, you are, you are involved in corporate development, work and coaching. You also perform like you form this show, for both companies and leadership opportunities, as well as for fundraisers and nonprofit organizations. And it's basically our performance for hire, which I feel like has a profound impact no matter the age, right? Because a thread it's really about coming to become more aware of your own life experience and guiding you through how can you explore this from a place of curiosity to understand yourself better? So how do people find out more about you and about wings? And also, I know that once they get there, they'll be able to see your TED Talk to let's write that was the origin of a lot of this. So how can people find you?

Yes, by going to my website at Susan l sandler.com.

And so when you're there, you will see the TED Talk, you'll see information about the show, and speaking opportunities for Susan and every opportunity to speak with Susan to see her perform is absolutely transformational, as was this episode, today, I'm sitting here, all these things that are just starting to noodle around in different ways, different clarities coming forward, and it's just absolutely beautiful. So thank you for sharing your brilliance with us.

Thank you.

And if you've listened and listening to this episode, stay with us all month, because we're going to be looking at this through different lenses. This was our live episode. And looking at this through the lens of how we live our lives, we're going to be looking at in terms of our leadership in organizations, what does this mean to come out from behind those masks in leadership, and maybe even when there's time for to wear certain masks and what it means to take them off? What prevents us from doing that. We're going to look at it in the context of love and relationships. And then we're going to look at it in our at the end of the month, with a very special guest, a photographer who is looking through a lens in order to help us become more real and to take off our masks really interesting conversation to stay with us all month long. And take the opportunity of the questions that we're posing here to really engage in your own exploration. But thank you, Susan, thank you listeners. Stay with us all month long, and we're looking forward to engaging in the dialogue with you so feel free to follow us on social media. Courage to be curious is our handle. And we're always having interesting surprises coming up. So stay with us. Follow us on the in social media, whether that's LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube or Twitter, we are all over the place and be on the journey with us. Thank you for having the courage to get curious.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai