Mimi Knowles."I have made a whole lot of changes, but I am still myself."

Sitting down with Mimi Knowles; songwriter, singer, producer and former Mormon. One of the lines from his recent single that just released seemed perfect for today's podcast, "I have made a whole lot of changes, but I am still myself."

This interview is a colorful & fun conversation and one that you will for sure enjoy! In my conversation with Mimi, nothing was off limits.

We talk about his Mormon mission to Italy. His mom leaving the mormon church, later his wife leaving too which was difficult for Mimi at the time. Mimi shares his struggles, what he went through and how he navigated through the emotions after his wife left.

Mimi shares, "there's one time Jess came with my daughter to Sacrament and Quincy was asking about people on the stand. And she's like, who are they? Jess said, that's the bishopric you'll never be able to be one of them because you're a woman. And I'm like, that's just facts. Yeah, just facts. And that was kind of the the tipping point for me wanting to leave. My wife identifies as pan, I'm a person of color. I have daughters. And I couldn't associate myself or align myself with anything that makes my people or communities feel lesser than right. I want my daughter to believe she can be whatever she wants to be. And I don't want her to grow up in an institution that's like you can you can only like be this if you conform."

Mimi shares the he felt he should be clear with his followers and shared a post that he was leaving the mormon religion. He was surprised that he had 100% of DM's coming in that commented. Most of them commenting that they wished they could make a post like he did. It was eye opening for Mimi. He felt grateful he has a support system as others don't have the same.

Check out Mimi's latest single! It will get stuck in your head, it's SO GOOD!

https://open.spotify.com/album/2mznwMw4KkGwIvoUlhSWkA?si=ggqrmdECT6mo0jWr8qQEHA https://open.spotify.com/album/2mznwMw4KkGwIvoUlhSWkA?si=ggqrmdECT6mo0jWr8qQEHA

OTHER LINKS:

https://www.amandajoyloveland.com/breakingthrough

https://www.amandajoyloveland.com/unbind

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:03

Welcome, welcome welcome to my podcast leaving religion and those really behind I am Amanda Joy Loveland, and I am your host, man, I've had so many just amazing things happening lately, and I have to share a few with all of you since you my listeners are sharing this and listening and really encouraging and helping this podcast to grow. We just top charted in the not top 20 In Canada, under the category of religion, and then we have been within the 10, top 10, top 20. For the last several months in the United States, we also have New Zealand listeners. And man, there's a few other countries and right now I am completely spacing that we are top turning there as well. So wherever you are in the world, thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing this podcast to those of you that are sharing it with loved ones. I know that this assists us all in helping to remind us that we're not alone in our journeys, and a few other things that I have going on. I just announced yesterday that I have a beautiful speaker symposium Breaking Through Barriers that I'm hosting here in Highland, Utah. And that will be April 24. And this is a day immersive event. And this is something that I saw come in a few years ago that I really wanted to create and I wanted to grow. And I'm excited to finally do my first one. And this is unique in the sense that it's not just your typical speakers event. Speakers events are amazing. And they're beautiful. But I really wanted to be able to have everyone in the audience have somatic experiences so that when you walk in the door, you have hope for whatever it is that you're wanting to move to let go of whatever it is. And when you walk out that door, at the end of the day, you are forever changed. And the speakers that are coming in with me in this event, are truly stunning human beings. They're brilliant. They have a lot of integrity. They're heart centered, and are just, they're just amazing. And I am so honored that they're going to be sharing this space with me, head over to my website, Amanda joy loveland.com forward slash breaking barriers. The ticket prices are 149 for the day, and it includes lunch. So I do anticipate this event selling out fairly quickly. It's a smaller venue that we're doing this first event at. So if you are interested, I would go grab your ticket today before they sell out. I have a few spots left for my retreat that's coming up in March and Springdale, Utah, this the 17th through the 20th. And this is for those of you that are ready to put down those things that are no longer serving, using breath, sound meditations, guided journeys and exercises. I will guide you through experiences that will assist you in removing the layers and the binds that are persisting in your life. And you will come out on the other side knowing more of who you are. So if this is a soul's call to you and you are filling that hole to come, then I encourage you to go snag one of the last spots available. Amanda joy loveland.com forward slash on bind. And my next guests you guys I have not seen Mimi Knowles and I don't know how many years and connecting in this space and oh my gosh, it's so fun. For those of you who have listened to my past episodes, there's not a whole lot of swearing. However, I'm forewarning you there is more swearing on this one. But this conversation was truly a joy to have and super entertaining. So I am excited to launch into my next interview with Mimi Knowles. I was at a gig this weekend. Oh yeah. Where was it at Ketchum, Idaho, Ketchum, Idaho. That's gonna be Native American name Ketchum, Scott, or me. Or Pokemon like Ash Ketchum, one or the other? Was it fun? It was very fun. Are you still loving doing music? It's great. I'm so thankful to be able to still be doing music. Yeah, it's like in a different capacity, but it's still fun. I get paid well, and to see like one of the I'm sure it's like this huge creative outlet for you to that you really enjoy. Incredible because when I started, I was like, Yo, I gotta get famous. And then that's when the money comes. And then chasing fame for years that was draining. And now I've found a different business model where I can still perform, but still make really good money, but also be able to get other people paid to Yeah, so it's been great. That's super cool. Yeah. Well, I'm sitting here with Mimi Knowles today. We haven't. This is like a reconnection. Like, we were just saying five lifetimes ago is last time. Like I you think you were probably performing down at what was that performing place in Provo? Right or the lore? Is it still there? isn't really Yeah, I'm chewing gum. Sure. I stopped chewing gum. I don't really care. Okay, grab my Kleenex. Quiet. Um, yeah, it was a Yeah, it was a floor. I was 22 Probably when we met you were a baby. Yeah, for real for real. And, and I had never been to Alpine before. So I come from Maine and like is very rural. And I remember I was mowing my girlfriend's at the time SLon to try to like, and I was like, I'm a mow this lawn so good that her dad's gone like me, and I'm mowing the lawn. And in Maine, it just rains. And then we have like irrigation if it's a drought that we run. But we don't have sprinklers that pop out the ground. So I'm mowing the lawn. And then this metallic like, alien looking thing pops up and like, holy shit. What the fuck that? And then I ran inside. I was like, Yo, is some shit in your lawn that's popping up. He's like a sprinkler. I'm like, you recognize this device? He's like, Yeah, I had no clue about that. And then also, he was like, they had a water fountain in their house. Yeah, that was like, like a drinking fountain. It was like a like a water fountain. Like, yeah, like in a public place where the be a water fountain. They had it in their house. And I was like, This is what riches. You got a water fountain? Yeah, yeah, I was crazy for a second album. Yeah, that was like 10 years ago. That's like 10 years ago, long time ago. Well, and then I had a friend, a mutual friend. That's like, have you seen what Mimi's posting? You should have him on your podcast. Yeah. Yay, that we get to reconnect. And yay that you're here. And yay, for? I'm really curious to hear your I don't know a thing about your Mormon story. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. A lot of people my age are leaving. A lot of people are leaving. Why do you think that is a myriad of reasons. But I, I think they're real. One of the reasons is, they're realizing the things that they can get from the LDS church aren't exclusive to their, like community, like ways to self improve. And they also can get a lot of the good things, even the great things from the LDS church without the shame and guilt. Yeah. And like obligatory stuff, I was thinking about it on my way here. Because my mom and dad are converts. My mom's from Quebec, Canada, and my dad's from the Bahamas, and they met in Maine, and then they were converts. And they were almost Jehovah witnesses. Oh, really? Yeah. Like, it's like, I'm glad I didn't get kidding. Because I could have birthdays and Christmases at least. But yeah, so that's how he came into the church. And my mom was just talking, like, because my mom has left the church. And she was like, it was like a part time job. Like it was sometimes it was like a full time job. And you think about like people that are in leadership positions that are like bishops or whatever, like, it's like, damn near full time job. No kidding. Actually, people in the bishopric or leadership, like you're talking? Yeah, it's crazy. And you knew that comes at a sacrifice, you know, that you only have so much time. So you have to sacrifice something. And a lot of times, it's like, your family or your spouse, or even your sanity your like, you know, who's who's taking care of you, if you're constantly depleting yourself and service percent, there's only you only have so much energy, I think, I feel like your energy is like a gas tank and you have it's can be depleted, it can also be refilled during the day, but it's like, where are you spending that energy. And my mom felt bad because she's like, I wish I had been able to put more time and energy like into my family unit. Versus like, the church and I get that too, because I was doing that too. There's like a there's like a duty thing where it's like, it's a it's a bold thing and like a great thing to be to sacrifice the time with your spouse, or your kids for the betterment of community in the betterment of like the church, you know. And there's, there's probably pros to that too. But for me, like, families number one, like my wife is number one, like that's the homie that's down to ride like she's always coming first. And then the kids are right after that. And then it's like my, like communities. So anything that comes in between that for me is like an obstruction of what I'm trying to try to reach. Yeah. So yeah, there it's so there's so much and I think that's the biggest thing about people are ages, or like my age is that they they can get everything that they want without having to deal with the shame and guilt. And a lot a lot of the things that here with my generation too is that there's so much unresolved trauma from our parents generation. That good that went unresolved from their parents generation has been passed down, and trauma can become genetic I'm sure you know way more about No, I love that, you know that oh, yeah, Gabby was talking about it, but like it can get gets in your DNA. And so I think can be passed on seven generations. Yes. Yeah. Isn't that insane, which means that I would have slave shit in me. So crazy. Unless someone back then had resolved and healed then it wouldn't necessarily get passed down. But there is scientific study, there's a book called it didn't start with you, that actually goes to some of the science behind how they're showing that this is actually being proved that trauma is passed down through the lineage through the DNA. Seven generations. Yeah, there you go. That's why when you do healing, you actually will heal forward and backwards because there's no such thing as time. Right? It's the construct that we've created on Earth to create normalcy and order. And time doesn't exist. So if that's the case, then when you do hear your own healing work, it moves forward and backwards. It's amazing. I know, it's fascinating stuff that doesn't necessarily get talked about, like in the LDS church, there's fantastic stuff that does get talked, but there's so much else to learn, you know? Yeah. But yeah, I think a lot of my generations like, had time to, like, really sit and think about all this shit. And not only is that our own trauma were taken care of, but it's like our parents and our grandparents trauma that we're all trying to resolve on top of being a part of like any, any institution that that has, like, shame and guilt built into it. It just becomes too much to bear. Yeah, you know, Oh, I totally agree. So I think that's like the major thing, but it's, it's, it's rampant. It's like, everybody's like leave and then a lot of like, friends that are still in it. And as so much of my story, they're just it's almost like, like how some Italians would be like, Catholic, culturally Catholic, and I'm hearing a lot of that too. There. There's like a lot of cultural Mormons. I think there's a lot of, there's a lot like I hear a lot of like younger kids saying this, like, Neo Mormon or like the I don't know, there's so many different terms. I can't remember what they are. I have not heard a lot of like sub classes of how people identify with their Mormonism now, because I feel like with Christianity you had well with Mormons, you had the Mali Mormons and you had the true blue Mormons. And then you have the Sunday Mormons, please. That's what I, but it's the same thing with Catholics, you had the so that would make sense that it's starting to divide a bit with how you're classifying yourself. As a Mormon, if you're Mormon. I interviewed a woman not too long ago, who's within the Mormon church and teaches but she doesn't identify as Mormon. Wow. So it's just, you know, it is interesting, I think there's beauty and people deciding, okay, I like this for this reason, and so I'm identifying this way. But it's hard when when something's like you're either in or you're out. Yeah. When so much of the world like, doesn't operate like that. And I also think that's, that's one of the things where religious people, or whatever institution you belong to you like they take their pride in, like we have chosen to sacrifice this stuff, and be in it. And so like, We're different because we chose to sacrifice it if you're not willing to sacrifice those things. You don't get to be in here because we all sacrifice it wouldn't be fair if he came in. But that that was the one of the reasons why I kept hanging in for as long as I did. Was I felt like this charge to be the like, progressive outspoken LDS person in church and in like, people would say, like crazy shit. It's the amount of times the craziest shit happens. It's always in Sunday school. I feel like I I taught God's doctrine I love you probably saw some crazy shit. Well, I was a different kind of teacher. So I don't know. Just the things that people say. Like there's I'm trying to remember this one time. I think we're talking about remember church stuff and then this guy raises his hand and he's like, I've never struggled with the Word of Wisdom. Because I love God. And if you struggle with the word of wisdom and break it, that means you don't love God. So I've been so I've never broken it because I love God and he's like the same thing with law chastity and then I was like, okay you're struggling to launch Asti probably isn't because it's probably less an option for you like just judging him. I'm like, you probably not out here getting it every night fan like let's be honest. But I was just like, that's such a negligent, ignorant, condescending thing to say that you don't love your God. I love my God more than you do. Because like you You sinned, you know, and I'm like, even if you read like any of the Bible shit or anything in like the Book of Mormon, like There's a lot of stories that talk about the prodigal son. Like, he was really fucking with his other son that like, left and came back. And the other sons like me, but I was like, good all the time. He's like, shut up, bro. Like, he's back, I'm happy, like, let me just be happy for it. And I'm like, that's like a perfect example that goes directly against what this man is saying. That's when I made a comment. And in the way that I would make comments was I would turn around and talk directly to the person. And so I called them out. I'm like, that's really crazy that you said that, that you feel like you have more love for God than other people that might struggle a certain things and like, some people are born, like addicted to some of these substances. And it wasn't even their fault. And I'm like, I'm sure you have your trials that you're not talking about right now. And then he got really upset and flustered. And then I was like, I enjoy this, like, I do this all day on Twitter, like, I can do this in church. But then when we walked out, it's like, I'm not trying to make this man feel bad, like about his life. So I was like, let's chat about it, too. So we're talking. And he's just saying some like crazy shit. And then this woman walks past us and she's crying. And then he like, I don't remember if he like, grabbed grabbed her. And I don't want to say, I don't remember exactly what happened. But he stopped her in some type of way. Whether it was like he actually stopped or like stepping away. He's like, why are you crying sister, it's a beautiful day, there's no reason to be crying, like, we have the restored gospel, you should be happy. And then he and then she was like, confused and like, looked at me. And then I was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. And then she walked off. And then I had like, a very interesting spiritual experience. were, you know, a story about how Jesus was like, pissed. People are selling shit in the temple, and he throws it. Yeah, the table. And I felt like that righteous fury like that spirit. The spirit was like, What the fuck? Like, that's how the spirit was talking to me in the moment. And so I turned to him, and I was like, What the fuck is wrong with you? Did you actually yeah. And now and that was like that. I was like, I don't even know where to start with how like misogynistic, condescending, like, belittling. Like, you're a bad person. That's what I ended up saying. I was so pissed. I couldn't like, even gather my thoughts. I just and I'm like, You're a bad person. That's it. And I walked up. And I found that person. Like, I'm so sorry that that happened to you. I was just talking to dude, I have no clue what's going on. But I'm so sorry for whatever you're going through. Even if you're not going through anything, here for you, whatever, whatever. Yeah, and that's sad. Because you, you hope that this stuff dies out. Like, for example, like racism, you hope that shit dies out, like you. It's like, at one point, it's like, people got it like, eventually stopped right? Like these, it these ideologies like they eventually and like somebody is the last person that thinks this way and it dies off. But this should still being passed on. And so like, a lot of people, like we just have to wait till the older generation dies out. But now like, it still passes on, like, this isn't anything new. This is like, from the beginning, like the jump from whatever we were whenever we got here, like, this shit was there. When I think that that's probably why not, in my opinion. That's why it's so important for us to do our healing work, because it that is what will, when we start allowing ourselves to come to a higher level of consciousness to having compassion, that man had no compassion, and was operating in a place of total self righteousness, out of fear, more than likely and out of a safety mechanism, because there's some people that are so rigid in their holdings. If they if something comes along and pushes them at all, then it would require their world to unravel. And that scares the crap out of people. And in my experience, at least, I agree. 100% But this is why I think our healing work and even you know, sharing and having this podcast and allowing everybody to have a voice and be heard and recognize themselves in another and go oh my gosh, I totally get what you're talking about. I had this instance did it you know, whatever it is. And just remembering that we are we are all here to be compassionate to each other to show love like we are we are love at the foundation of all things is love. That's where how creation happens. And yeah, that's what was your spiritual experience. Just that temple that with Jesus in the temple throwing that this isn't? Was that what it was? Oh, yeah, that was just like a, I was just like, Fuck you talk about and the spirit was like, this is true. Like that's how it felt. That's how it felt like this is yeah, yeah. The spirit. Yeah, that's that's how it felt. The Spirit felt like one of my aunties be like yes, let's go. That's right. Oh, also, I mentioned my mom earlier. My mom was the best person I've ever met in my life. The fact that everything that she went through and she was still an amazing mother, and to this day is I haven't met a more perfect person. My mom is incredible, despite everything that she went through, like she and the beginning, I wasn't trying to be like, y'all my mom's suck. My mom was actually the best person I have ever met. On this earth. I don't think I'll ever find anyone close to it. But yeah, you mentioned like fear. It's so interesting, because I served an LDS mission in Italy, which fucking rocks. It was amazing. Because I was in Italy. I was in northern Italy. So I was in. I showed it on the east coast of Italy, and went the West Coast, went back to the east coast and then finished in the middle. You still speak Italian? Nobody one quarter. Oh, if you get down to polar italiano in the city. Yato. I don't know why I'm talking Italian. They asked you if you speak Italian. You do? He did. And that was beautiful. Italian. I have no idea what you said. I studied it at. That was like, if anything from this mission. I'm still gonna speak this language. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's like yeah, like a lot of people were like, a Interlingua. De Anjali. That's when the angels is talking. The time we die, whatever is there, but speaking of time, because the most beautiful thing. But, uh, yeah, I was like, I'm not losing that, like I love. So I hung on to it studied at college. So talk with a lot of friends. But, yeah, like, we're teaching people to, like, have faith and despite the fear, push through. And then and then they'll be like this reassurance and like, there's, like, think about like diving into like a pool, like, it's scary. But then like, you get there and it's cool, and you're chillin. But then I feel like at some point, I don't know, maybe I could be wrong. Like, I feel like, there's so much security in religion, it becomes like a crutch that you've used too long. So now it impedes your progress. I would 100% agree with that. Yeah. And everybody's process and their, their path is different. When that was my teaching gospel doctrine. I go to bear my testimony. And the only thing I could bear it and was lightened love. And I had an incident knowing, oh, my gosh, I'm done with this. And I could feel that there was more beyond this. Like, it was like, Oh, I've learned everything. I need to hear it. Now it's time to to continue growing because I couldn't grow anymore within the construct of that religion. Yeah, like, I don't know who said it, but like complacency is death. And I'm thankful to like to be content, but I always I always do want to be growing. Yeah. Well, I think that on a soul level, that's why we choose to incarnate, that's why we choose to have all these different experiences is for growth. I think that's beautiful. That complacency is death. That might be our title of the podcast. Oh, yeah. Complacency is dead. Mimi Knowles but also when, like, by some other guy that wasn't me knows actually said those quotes. Yeah, but think about like, like stagnant water, it becomes like polluted, like, stuff gets stuck in it. Like, it's got to drink that water. No, it's got to keep moving. And then one of my mantras for the year is to like, let go. So like swimming against the current maybe, maybe you're trying to get to some place back upstream. But it's like really, really difficult. Why would you go back? Well, maybe there's something that's also a good question. Because you think you want to get there. But so many times in my life, there's like, oh, shit, I want I need to get back to that place where I want to get to, but going with the flow, oftentimes you find there's something better that I didn't even realize, like, for example, I wanted to go on tour, I was just talking to my friend Haley about this. I want to go on tour as like a musician as like, a solo artist, like I want to go hit all these cities. And add friends. I was doing it, but I didn't realize how financially difficult it was. Because you see people on tour, you're like, oh, yeah, there's still a merge, like they're getting paid. A lot of times these people are paying to go on tour. They're paying like $5,000 a slot to be able to open up for these people. And so you get off tour and you're 20 grand short. But I but I was like I still want I don't care. I'll make it work. But now what I do is I with two partners, we run a corporate party band business, we have three bands, and now we're like touring the US so I have a gig. I just got back from Ketchum, Idaho, but we're playing in like New York. We're playing in Florida. We're playing in Austin, we're playing in Ohio we have a gig in Cabo are playing in the Bahamas, but like I get paid, I'm also getting the players paid really well. So like I'm touring and I'm playing music. It's not like my music. And I don't think anything really beats playing like your own alright, but it It's different, and I had to deal with that. But I still got that thing that I wanted. It's just in a way that I never expected it would come. Yeah, that's thankfully this way. The other way. That's what you that's the irony I think about and just in general in life, and we're totally getting off tangent, but I think this is still great information. But in general in life, I would everyone that I've come across, including myself, the things that are unexpected that we didn't see, or we didn't plan, or actually what brings us the most happiness. You know, I never in a million years thought I'd be doing this podcast and talking about leaving religion and writing books about it, and never in a million years and yet, this is this lights me up like I so enjoyed it in the people that are finding healing from it. But I would have never planned that. I would say this is not a tangent, I'd say this is right on topic. Because it's again, it's like complacency. If you're complacent. You're not searching, you're not looking for anything. Yeah. Well, but and going with the flow. So Michael singer talks so beautifully about this one, if you've read his surrender experiment, oh, you should he actually will liken flow going with the flow and surrendering to a river. And that the rocks and that create current. And the current is actually those things that come into our life of anger, or we're trying to force something, or whatever it is, those thoughts, those limiting beliefs, those are the rocks that start getting in this river that becomes more tumultuous, instead of just hey, I'm going to go along with the flow, and try to shift he talks about even driving in the car, like when you get pissed off, because there's a stupid ass driver in front of you. It's like, you know what, they're probably having a really bad day, and I'm just gonna send them love God, this is so hard. I'm sending them love. I'm sending him love. And it's a practice. And it is just that Let's surrender and let go. And he speaks to how it's super funny and comical that we humans come onto this planet in an earth that has been created, how many? You know, how old is our planet, hundreds of years old. It's older than that. And the the motions that have been going in motion for 1000s and 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of years, we come in and think we're gonna go change the course of how this has already been in motion. Yeah, it's quite comical. Yeah. You know, and, and this, we could get off on a huge tangent, because then this goes into so many different theories that I have. But I still don't think we're on a tangent because this part is attached. Well, I can bring it back then. So man, so the the I think that's another thing that religion does, too. Is it instills in you like you are different, you are special, you are unique, which there are true things to that. But it's like you're special because you're a part of this religion. And my wife would talk about this too, because she was a musician. Elite. Yeah, you're the elite your call. There you are. You're better. Yeah, you're higher than stand out amongst the crowd. Yeah, you're a city upon a hill. And that fucks with your psyche. You're told that from New York, you're really, really young. But you're you were talking about your wife. Yeah. And she was saying that was one of the reasons why she was pursuing a musical career because she's like, I like through the church. No, I have a purpose. And I'm meant to touch all these people, and I'm gonna make the biggest difference. And then she started to like, experience burnout. And then and then you struggle. When I've went with the same thing. You're like, well, what is my purpose? And then you struggle with validation? Because you're like, if I am like, this, like person that has all this purpose, how come not many people are like, engaging with what I'm trying to do to like change. So for example, as a musician, you're like putting out music, and then people aren't engaging with it, then you're like, Wait, so how am I going to change people? And then it fucks with your whole identity, which was, I'm like, Great, I'm going to change everything. So yeah, I think the there's like, it's a two edged sword. I think there's strength and realizing that yourself, you do have a purpose. And you are unique. But I think you can be unique without this perspective of being like, I'm better than so one of the things and I'll probably do a post about it today or tomorrow. Although I say tared today or tomorrow on this podcast will be released in the next few weeks. But our world I think what religion has done is take away our power in the idea that individually we are these amazing beings and we get to choose what our purpose is and what we want to do based off of whatever we feel choosing your purpose. Yes, whatever we fill our hearts desire is and our life is a constant feedback loop. So if we're not getting the feedback that we're wanting, aka, I'm not getting as many followers as I'm wanting with whatever shit what am I doing wrong? What is the belief that I actually because I create my words are powerful. So what's my self thought? What am I limiting beliefs? What's the subconscious mind actually projecting out into my world so that I can constantly fine tune in and re attune my vessel as a whole human being and a sovereign being, so that I start getting more and more the results that I'm wanting in life. And that's what I think is one of the most beautiful things is a how powerful we are, that we are Gods and form and we're becoming more Godlike. Like, we still don't know what the hell we're doing half the time. So we're learning this is where surrender comes in. leases, my belief. I agree with that. And it's not because I think with with what you're speaking about, what religion does is, Well, God told me, This is my purpose. And so then I'm going to go after it. And if I'm not getting the results that I want, then something must be wrong with me. Because if God's not blessing me in this, there, and really, it's just a mentality, it's just a shift in thought, because some people will go down that path and have massive success. Well, more than likely underneath the light layers and in their subconscious mind, they have a belief that they will be successful and so they will be but we like to put the blame on God. And yeah, have nothing to do with God has everything to do with our with ourselves. And that's one of the things that I think that religion I think there's a lot of beauty and religion and I think there's a lot of challenges within religion. And I think that's one of them of the identity is not just your Mimi Knowles and whatever you want to create in this life, go create it dude. Like you're not a byproduct of God, you are and you're not you chose in you incarnated into this life, why did you incarnate? What do you want to do? You know, instead of thinking, Well, shit, I've got to constantly if I'm not doing this, and I'm being punished, or I'm, you know, I mean that, that cause and effect with God instead of, well, how can I better myself? And how can I be more of like this amazing human that I want to be in this life? And going from that, does that make sense? 100%. And when you're on that pursuit for your identity, but you're also feeling all this shame, and guilt for stuff you did when you was like a kid, and you still haven't been able to get the, it's really difficult. I think one thing that I, I wish more of my friends held on to when they leave religion would be faith. And there's a lot of terms that have become, like, irrevocably attached to religion. And I think faith is one of those ones that I wish could like live outside of it. So like faith, just like the belief and things that have yet to come. My transition out of the LDS church, not a religion was like, very, very natural. Like my, my life has my like, day to day has like, hasn't had much change. It is it's like fortunate, and I know that a lot of people don't don't have that. But I think a lot of the reason is because I had already I had been leaving for a while. And so I was helpful to that your parent, your mom's gone out, and I assume your wife's on the same path as you. Yeah, she'd been gone for a minute. And that's another thing too, is I feel like it's a lot more difficult as a woman to stay in this type of religion, and also like a person of color. So for me, I'm half black, half white, but I'm like racially ambiguous. People, like they always like to guess what I am. I'm like, God, dammit, like, well, it's white. I always just try to guess what I am the like, Latino, I'm like, no, like, Italian. I'm like, no, like, I'm getting close to the right. I'm like, I don't like you. I want to leave. But being somebody that could be white passing and being a male in religion, especially one like this, the shirts made for you. So it's more comfortable. Versus a woman or like a person of color or a woman person of color. shits not made for them. Like, there's one time just came with my daughter and my in Quincy was asking about people on the stand. And she's like, who are they? And she's like, that's the bishopric she's like, you'll never be able to be one of them. Because you're a woman. And I'm like, that's just facts. Yeah, just facts. And that was kind of the the tipping point, if there were to be for me wanting to leave that. My, my wife identifies as pan, I'm a person of color. I have daughters. And I can't, I couldn't, I couldn't like, I couldn't associate myself or align myself with anything that makes my people or communities feel lesser than right. I want my daughter to believe she can be whatever she wants to be. And I don't want her to grow up in an institution that's like you can you can only like be this if you conform to Yeah, so that was like one of the reasons why and I the reason why I made a post it wasn't the reason why I did it was I have a lot of like people that are of the LDS faith that follow me. And I want them to like be misled. So I was like, Yo, like, I'm not a part of this anymore. And if you feel it that way, you can do with it what you will, and there was like really short post it was like four sentences. I can't remember what I said. I was like, I think I'm really leaving the LDS church. I'm thankful for my experiences and excited For the new ones, I think, yes. But also, there's I was like, I bet us a lot of people that want to be making this post, but for whatever reason, I can't Oh, 100% I had hundreds of DMS, like probably like over 300, DMS. And they're all varying, but a lot of them was like, I wish I could make this post or like, I'm so scared to make this post or I would do, I would do the same thing. I leave the church, but my husband would be so mad, or like, my husband's family would be so mad. There's a lot of people that are like in the in between them wish they could just make a definitive step forward. Well, it takes a lot of courage to do that. And then being guarding yourself against the backlash because you know, you'll get it. Yeah. Yeah, it's rough. And especially like, if you don't have a support system, like, my family has been through so much shit that like, if anybody does anything famous, like, Hey, we got your back, like, we support you even if you don't, yeah, so I'm thankful for that. But not a lot of people have that, especially when they're like 17th generation LDS or whatever it is. But faith has helped me immensely as I'm like, working on like, career goals, family goals, like, I do a lot of like meditation manifesting, like, I'm very optimistic, very, like, I try my best to be positive, not not blindly positive, where if like, there's something negative, I don't address it, like, I still live with it, sit in it, but I don't, I don't even sit in it. Like I like recognize it, take it in. But like I try to keep moving and try to learn from what I can from it. Because I know, I don't know. But I believe I have faith that whatever I'm striving to be able to reach, I'll be able to do it. Yeah. I have a lot of friends that leave the LDS church, or leave church or whatever it is, and they throw faith by the wayside. And so I see a lot of my friends struggling with like, trying to like reach goals or trying trying to be happy. They're like, this is where I'm at. And this is where I'm always going to be like, I don't believe is going to get any better. Like, and I Yeah, and it's, I can see why they get there. And I'm not claiming that I know the answer. But for me personally, still, using faith in a non religious way in my life has helped me immensely. Those friends of yours that you're speaking to did they have when they laughed? Were they angry? Yeah. And there's in the eye, you gotta resolve the trauma, you gotta heal. Yeah. Because I, in my experience, and as you're talking and that doesn't breaks my heart because again, it's not like the Mormon church owns the market on faith. You know, and, and so that's where I feel like oftentimes that happens, because there's some sort of trauma or anger, as far as why they're leaving. So there, it's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yeah, it's like, Screw this, I'm down with this religion. So everything associated with this religion is gone. And it's a death process. And they're probably stuck in whatever, one of those grieving stages, and hopefully they'll be able to move through it. That's, that's the kicker. But yeah, I feel Yeah, faith is the antithesis, antithesis of fear. Yeah, you know, so if you're not having faith in your, you're gonna sit in the fear, more than likely, which is why they're probably having a hard time moving and growing. So and that the irony, I was listening to a book the other day about, you know, when we came, however you want to believe our history was, and that is, you know, how we are all created on Earth. But when we are created, and you have the whole Adam and Eve story, that here they were in innocence and in, you know, bliss, supposedly, and then here comes you know, they get tempted, you know, eat the apple, here's the snake that comes in, and all of a sudden, we go from a oneness month mentality, to now we're split. Now we have good and evil, and yet they came from the same source. And so it's the same thing, in my opinion of faith and fear. It's like, well, it's just the opposite of faith when you're in fear. So you're worried fear? Okay, well, where do I need to trust more? Where do I need to have faith that this is going to work out? Because staying over here, where this is scaring the shit out of me isn't working? Yeah, you know, you mentioned like, the good and evil are good and bad. That's one thing I've been trying to focus on too, is like removing those labels from things right? Because that's something growing up in a religion. It's like, This is bad. This is good. And black and white. Yeah. And I still I still choose to not drink or smoke, and that's just like a personal choice. But I had this, like, lingering feeling that oh, they're bad. If somebody is doing that, that's bad, so I shouldn't be around them. And that was something as like my wife was like, starting to like experiment and do that type of stuff. I still had this like lingering belief that it's like it's bad, as bad as bad. So that's something I've been working on is like removing it because anything from any from a patient perspective could be viewed as bad or most things can be viewed from a certain perspective as good. But I'm trying to view it as just it is it's experience. It's yeah, it's just something that's happening. And for me, that's just lets me be able to move on and let that person experience and figure out what they want to do. But yeah, I think there's like something blocking or like it's an inhibitor when you start to put things in like specific boxes, like that's bad, but like, alcohol can be like, incredibly helpful in some ways, you know? Like anything in life, everything in moderation is great, right? Something that we learned in the LDS church. So the word of wisdom, you know, moderation. There's, there's truth in that eat meat sparingly. drink soda abundantly. Right. That's the irony, right? Don't drink coffee. But the fizz lions are crazy busy. Tell me how high fructose Coast's low high fructose corn syrup is better than coffee that comes from the earth. But you know, crazy. That's fine. Yeah. But yeah, that's, I think that's a good example of like, something that is good to pull from that, you know, like moderation, all things. So yeah, that's like something I'm trying to do too, is remove that label. Do you believe in multiple lifetimes? Should we get into it? Hmm. This, this helps with the good and evil or is it good and bad? So I think might one of the reasons why my transition of the LDS church was easier than most actually, I'm not sure if it's hard for everyone. But in my particular situation, it was easier is because I kind of like transferred it. So instead of thinking about like, an Anglo Saxon, Jesus or God, dude, I just think I think I operate more like universally. So I do good, good comes back. And it's a, it's a cycle, if I'm trying to help people, help will also be there. And help will be provided to me more, so I can then help people more. And that's just one of the laws of the universe. I agree. So that's, that's kind of how I viewed it have just transitioned a lot of like, those beliefs into like, these type of things. So if if multiple lifetimes, shit, so we got here from I believe in like, the soul. I feel like there's something inside me. Soul wise, that came from somewhere. Yeah, the laws of science says things can't be like created or destroyed. So after this life, I'm really not sure. And for some people, that scares them a lot, because we've not knowing Oh, yeah, the fear. We've been, we've had like, a beautifully catered. Stores play of what's gonna happen. There's just charcuterie of like, just the most beautiful thing. Yes. Like, it's gonna be your family. It's gonna look just like this. I don't know. And that's the I think that's another big thing is like when people get up and like, I know that Jesus was a prophet. I know. And every time someone says, I know, I'm like, you don't? I'm like you believe. Right. And I don't think there's any I don't think having believing in something and knowing something I don't think believing is lesser than I think it's actually harder to believe than a no, but I think I think that's where like, the security comes in. It's like, Yo, this is how it is like, cool. And I know that and now I'm straight right? Now worry about it. Yeah, I don't have to worry about it. And that's why people gravitate to religion, because life is easier, and people tell you exactly what to do. And when people aren't telling you exactly what to do, or what's gonna happen after this life, then that's when people like, it gets scary. Yes. And then you're forced to actually ask the questions yourself and grow your level of consciousness and your knowing. Yeah. And your knowing gets to change. And I think that's what you're talking about when it's like somebody says, I know like today, I know. This is my truth. Tomorrow may change, because I'm constantly learning and growing. Yeah. And there's such beauty and having that space for being curious that, you know, my level of awareness right now, this is truth. But I'm constantly learning so who knows what I'll believe in a week, a year, the Earth was the the center of the universe, and then it wasn't right. The earth was flat, then, well, some people still believe the Earth is flat, but then it wasn't, you know. So even science changes. The science is constantly changing. But goddamn. After this life, I really I really am not sure what I would love to have happen is that those people that I've met in this life and have experienced life, like my family, that I can be with him in some type of way, and also meet new people that I didn't get to meet because they came before they came after. But I don't know. I'm not sure what that looks like. But that's what I hope for. That's what I have faith in. And that's my my non religious faith that I'll be with the people that I love. Yeah, wherever it is, like I'll I'll find them I'll figure it out. swim through whatever dimension we're in, yo, what if before this life, it was 2d. And before that it was one day, we were all just like dots. And then we became lines. And now we're people and then we'll go to 4d. And if you realize that life isn't linear, right, that's true. No, that's, that's straight facts, because which is really hard for the human brain to wrap our heads around. And that's why religion is okay, I do that. Unless it's all very linear. Yeah, and that time, so it's easier to like process Exactly, exactly. cyclical. Is that what you believe life is? Not necessarily in cycles, but evolution. So if your soul Mimi would do better with going into the fourth dimension, and then going over to some random planet somewhere else. And then over here, you know, everybody's so unique, that I don't think that there would be a specific order to all souls, that would be the exact same. My belief is that we do have multiple lifetimes. And the reason why I was asking you this is because I feel like if you start opening up to the idea that okay, maybe we do have multiple lifetimes, because stagnancy is death, we would always choose to grow and learn. So we would choose to have multiple lifetimes. And let's say, Mimi, you chose come down in this lifetime. You have a soul family, I believe we travel and soul families and soul families. I've never heard of that. Yes. Cool. And so that's why there's certain people you just totally jive with, you're like, I feel like I know you, you know, those people that are just naturally comfortable and easy. Those are part of your soul family, more than likely, and this includes people that we have had trauma with. Because what if I'm just going to speak to myself? What if, when this lifetime, I wanted to know what abusive partners look like narcissism, emotionally physically abusive, you know how my dad passed away all these things. Because only through these experiences when I cultivate the strength, the wisdom and the experiences that I have, just like your mom, when you're talking about your mom, she's the woman she is because she's been through a ton of shit. And because she's chosen how she wanted to navigate it, which is this beautiful experience, from the sounds of it. She's, she's cultivated amazing qualities about herself because of these experiences. And when we find when we start looking at every experience in our life as a gift, because there's something in there for us to learn. It's part of our soul's evolution. So in that every lifetime we incarnate in is just for experience, which would mean there is not right or wrong. There's not good or evil, because everything's just an experience. Is it possible that in one lifetime, you would want to experience some really shitty, horrific thing? Maybe, maybe. And I wanted to also speak to when you're because there's people when you're talking about your friends, that Yeah, it's hard, though all those people that DMS you, it is hard to have that courage to step out because it is the irony is with the Jesus throwing the the table or the recruiter, a board of hey, this is what happens when we die. And now you have a family member that you love a partner, you're your spouse that you're still eternally for that saying, Hey, I don't I'm not drinking the Kool Aid anymore. It is like in their minds, the temple or the table just got totally thrown over. Holy shit my experience when when my wife wanted to leave, and I yeah, if it rocked me, because I was like, Wait, what about eternity shit? And you start having to question your belief system. And that's why family systems struggle, because they're the ones that are staying in are now forced to question Wait a minute now what do I believe instead of just following? This is what the truth is because the church is telling me this, but now what someone I love dearly is choosing to leave. Do I really still hold on to the fact that families are internal only if that's where it gets scary. Yeah, cuz that's, that's what it was was like in I wasn't even like super, like, committed to the religion at that time. But I was like, the fact that that's off the table now. And it was like, How could you do that? To me? That was like my reaction. Yeah. And I've since apologized for that because she was just trying to figure out what was best for her right but I was like, but you're not thinking about me. And thank heavens she wasn't like Thank heavens she was thinking about what was best for her and and yeah, that's definitely what it is. And it's it's hard because you can look at it you can look at it be like the people that are in the LDS church still are bad like they if you're part of it in any way shape or form then you believe all this stuff and that's why I never liked labeling myself as like a Mormon. Because those words have attachments to it. That I disagree with. Yeah. On words are powerful. Yeah, it's like I'm a I'm an American citizen, but I don't agree with everything that goes on in America. I gave us does, yeah. And I can leave, I can go to another country. But that would be really hard. It's easier to stay here. My like, my whole life is here. And obviously, that's not a direct, like, correlation with like how religion is. But I think there are some similarities for sure. Like, I'm comfortable. This is where my life is like, I've I could leave and I don't agree with everything in the church. But like at this is where it's like, I've built my life like it would be so difficult to move. So yeah, I I want people to live their life however they want. But I feel like having like malice and hatred or like contempt, or like anger towards anything isn't really healthy. At least that's been my experience. Not helpful. No, yeah. And then to like, to escape something because you're tired of feeling like the shame and guilt, only to turn around and look at those people still struggling with that shame and guilt. And shame them for being there still. Yeah, yeah, I just hope he's like a hypocrisy. It would be like literally. And when you're when you're hurt, and when you're, when you have that trauma. Sometimes you do things that like that also hurt like hurt people hurt people. And the only way her people stop hurting people is through healing. I had a song that just came out, I know there's a line in it. Whereas like, if you want to heal the world, and heal yourself, now made a whole lot of changes, but I'm still myself. And I've never thought I could make changes and who I am, and become more me. And that's been my experience. I love, love, love that what you're speaking to. And part of what I do in this life is helping people remove the layer so that they can find more of themselves. And really at the core of all of us is who our natural state, our God cells, our authentic, true higher selves. And we have just chosen to come into constructs where we have bought in to a lot of different layers and levels of stuff. And until we're ready to ask those questions, and then start having compassion for ourselves and others, recognizing that we all have choice, and then continue to let those layers remove I love. I want to hear that song. We'll have to make sure I'm posting the show. That'd be great. Thank you. Yeah, I think there's just like a logical thing by like removing the layers, you're becoming less of yourself, it seems counterintuitive. But by removing those layers, you become more yourself. So by subtracting you're adding, which doesn't make sense to our mind, which is probably because it's linear. Well, or just with what we've known, and what we've been taught. And I think that that's one of the things in any religion in any construct. There's so much programming that goes in. So you going oh, man, I wonder why I don't know why I still struggle with this. This is where you get to have compassion. And for anyone listening, you get to have compassion. You're, we are all unwinding years and years and decades from lineage patterning, a programming that has gone into our psyche for how long generations so have compassion racket, you know, we're all I don't care who you are. Even the Deccan church. He's doing the best he can with why he has right now. And that's the life he's choosing. And that's fine. You know, everyone that is still staying in. That's what they're choosing the case of you? No, I'm not gonna, you'll have to look at Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Have you ever heard of that? Oh, shit. I think I've read about that. Is some crazy shit where the just telling me it's like, it's like, Okay, let me get let me get let me get. So like, I think they're, they're like in the cave. Yeah. And then the, like, someone ventures out and he's like, Oh, shit, it's a whole world out this bitch. And then he goes back in. He's like, Yo, so it's a whole world and then they killed him or something. So they're prisoners. No, you're a super super Yes, yeah. And they're in prison. These prisoners, they're captive. They're chained up into a cave, there's a fire behind him. And all they can see is the shadows of things that walk by that's all that they can see. And these things terrify them and that is their full reality. And one of the prisoners gets loose somehow and escapes goes outside blinded by the light takes a while to actually be go Holy shit. This is real. Like at first he doesn't because his real his reality. Were the shadows. So now he's seeing things in the light. And he's like, is this real? Like what? And then he come want you know, after he figures out? Yeah, this is real. He goes back in and tries to tell the other prisoners. Hey, come with me. Come with me. Come with me. Because that's actually real. This isn't and he has a hard time now seeing the shadows and they won't leave. Because that's the reality. Anything that's such a Beautiful, beautiful allegory and unbearable to all the things that we're talking about religion, not religion, anybody that's choosing to have a viewpoint of whatever, they can only see the forest for the trees until you pop out of it and see something different. But when we go on in the next life, Amanda, we're gonna be for D, or D, if we can have that now. Oh, my God has been too many mind blowing things. That's more the Christ at heart. That's one of the books that I'm writing about. Right, the reemergence of the Christ within Christ, Christ, Christ. Because Jesus, this is a podcast one of these days I'm going to do Yahshua Ben Joseph was born Yoshua Bengio. Joseph, he wasn't Christed until later on in life when he went through removed the layers. And the became Christed. Yeah, cuz I like a lot of people. Another thing with throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which is I feel like that's a crazy thing. Do people do that? Like, that's a crazy thing. Well, you know, that's just the saying, I know. But like, what is saying is come from even though did someone throw the bathwater like, oh, shit, my baby. No idea. Anyway, I think that's one of those things, too, is like you leave Christianity and it's like, you throw everything away. But like, if Jesus Christ was real, and really, like, maybe he was like a really great person. And like, I heard a really interesting perspective about how people have how capitalism has used Jesus, essentially, like he essentially is just a really, really great person that may or may not have really done miracles, but 100% of miracles in my belief system. Yeah. 100% you know why? This is the thing that capitalism has, without a doubt, we have an archetype of Christ, Jesus Christ on this planet, especially in the Americas that's held and embedded in the earth, that hey, here was someone who died for your sins, because you're a sinner, by the way. So now all of us live in the shadow of the cross. We're all crucified in some way or another because Jesus was so we're gonna glorify the his crucification not that he came back to life. Thank you very much. Christianity has formed, like the base of Christianity is on forgiveness, and that there was an empty tomb. But yeah, we identify with the cross. And, um, if you speak your truth, Mimi, If Christ was alive today, would he not be crucified again? 100% he would. I mean, anybody who speaks out and speaks their voice, their truth, Christ went against the constructs there in the time that he was alive. And that's why he was crucified for a lot of different reasons. But he showed and at the time, the people did not know what happened after death. They didn't believe that there was life or death, they didn't know that there was life after death. Here, sub being that comes in and shows hey, I can actually see 99% That you can't see, because this table right here, science shown us that this is 99.99% space. So the only thing we're seeing is actually the matter that makes up less than 1%. And that is what we're focused on is the 1%, and not the 99. Jesus isn't that capitalism. And yeah, and Jesus saw the 99%, he worked with the 99%, it was as real as this table here. So he was here to show us what we're capable of. And instead, capitalism, Christianity has put him on a pedestal, made us repent of our sins, time and time and time again, put guilt, put shame, put all these constructs, over how evil and wicked we are as humans. In all reality, Jesus was trying to just show us what we're capable of. We're talking about that before we started recording too, is, it's like, if people can get you upset or engage you emotionally, then they can manipulate you. And that's, that's one of the things I think is really sad about religion is a lot of it. You always hear about these like religions that are it's like they were embezzling money. You know, it's time and time and time and time again. It's unfortunate and I don't know as humans if we are capable of being able to maintain a flawless religious institution. I don't think it's in us and I think, um, I don't know there's so many ways to live life but I found a lot of joy and relief by I've had a lot more spiritual experience like outside of like, a religious building. I agree. That's where majority of my spiritual experiences are, where it's like, do you remember like going to, like a youth conference or something like that? And then they have The testimony meeting, and then you like, I'm gonna say something, and I'll make everybody cry. And then I'm a cry, a split, it's gonna be crazy. And you're just like hyping yourself up. And I'm like, I gotta tell a crazy story. Like, I broke my leg not broke both my legs because like you stubbed your toe or something. I think the spiritual moments are like, in those little moments where you're with your friends or like, a loved one or with your kid where you're just playing. And you're just like, I want this forever. Yeah, for sure. I love that you brought up earlier about how it was hard for you and your wife communicated, that she was done. And the questioning that it forced you to kind of that you were angry. How did you work through that? Therapy? Yeah, how long? How long ago? Was this? five or four years ago, really? So it's been that long? Well, I mean, I worked through it after. But I mean, I don't know. I guess it was like stages. So it's like, okay, she's like out the church, but like, and then that made me want to be like, in the church more why she'd like go drink wine. I'm going to read the scriptures. Because in I think, subconsciously, it was like, well, she must be doing these things. It's like, attack me. So like, I need to like, rebuff and like, attack her with, like, good. Like, she's trying to bring bad in. So let me bring good in even harder to like, try to balance it. And then, uh, it's so hard to try to be able to place fall, it's like, oh, that was my fault. Or no, that was like the religions fault. Like that was their bad and whatever whoever's fault it was, it was happening. And I needed to, like, make the adjustment. And that and it was a long time because it was like, drilled into my head. This book, you probably not Miguel Ruiz the for payments. Yeah, it's a beautiful book that book fire. So all these agreements that we have been subjected to whether we've like taken them on ourselves, they're like put on to us, we just have all of these agreements. And that's our belief system, the agreements that like, I agree that alcohol is bad. I agree that anyone that drinks alcohol is bad, or a national avoid that. And so we go our whole lives with all these agreements. And then whenever anything comes in con is contrary to those beliefs, you distance yourself, or you disengage, or you condemn it, or whatever. So the the book basically talks about, like Restructuring these agreements that you've spent your whole life with, whether you've put them there, or your parents, or your church leaders put them there, getting rid of all of it. And then like rebuilding with these, these agreements, one of my favorite ones is not taking things personally. And so when my wife would like, have a night out with our friends, and go drink, I used to be like, this is a personal attack on me in my belief in my family and the things that I want. And now that I don't take things personally, like, she is having a good time with her friends. And she's gonna come back and she's gonna tell me she had so much fun, and we're probably going to hook up so it's honestly great. But that's a win win situation, honestly, is and that's that's been like, one of my favorite things is like not taking things personally, like driving down the road and someone cuts you off. Maybe they got to get somewhere. Yeah. Boom, I'm on with my day. Like, I'm not thinking like five hours later. I'm so mad that the guy like drove in front of me. Because that's ended energy expenditure. Oh, for sure. Something I could be spending like with my kids, or like my family or like, doing something positive. So yeah, I think that's probably like, the biggest thing is I was taking everything that she was doing personally, like it's a personal attack on me. When in reality, she's like, she just hasn't been able to experience life that she's wanted to, because she's had all of these confinements boundaries, borders that were agreements that were set up. A lot of times not by her own volition. Yeah. So yeah. Like if I was able to not take things personally back then I feel like that would have been able to maybe make that transition smoother. Not that I regret how it happened. It happened, how it happened. I learned my lessons and you guys seem like you move through it as it strengthens your relationship. For sure. Like I think where we're at now is like the strongest we've we've ever really been in like, I think it helps her that I've also left the church because she identifies as as pan and so she's part of the LGBTQ community. And so she's sees anybody that's a part of that community. The LDS community as like an entire herd which I can understand. But we already talked to that point. But I think it's, it's, it's helped us a lot. Yeah, for sure. But still, like I saw, like, we'll have parties at our house, I guess not parties, like just get togethers and like there's alcohol used to not be any alcohol in the house. Because I was afraid that it would be a negative impact on our children. Yeah. And we both agreed, like we keep it away. Like, we're not like, that's not happening, we find a comfortable way where it works for both of us. But a lot of people come over, and like everybody's drinking, and like I'm not, which has been my whole life experiences. I'm always around people that's drinking. And it's just feels so great for her that she can, it can be a place where people can come Yeah, and like, be themselves and be relaxed. And that's been like a huge thing for our relationship where our house can be like a safe hub for people to come and be themselves well, and even though it took some time, I would imagine to she feels even safer with you because she was able to share all of those pieces. And have you worked your stuff and then come back together? Because I'm sure it kind of put some distance for a minute. Oh, yeah. But then coming back together and being stronger because of it. I think that's beautiful. Yeah, it's like, it's just, again, what Miguel Ruiz was writing about, I had this belief system that was in contrary to how she wanted to live her life. Just speaking about relationship wise. And I was like, what, what actually serves me now is like, being with this person serves me immensely. And I look at these beliefs that I've had, that have, they're just like, in this cellar just sitting, like, I don't even go check on this shit. It's just there. Right? And, and then I'm like, looking at it. I'm like, this doesn't serve me. Like these beliefs aren't serving me, they aren't helping me. And a lot of times they're hurting. They're a hindrance, not only in my relationship, but maybe how I like, view other people and, like, receive other people in other relationships I have. So letting go of like a lot of those old belief systems that were there just because they were there. And I hadn't like, done any maintenance or spring cleaning? Well, I think, I think that there's a part of us, and I'm not quite sure where it comes from. But this idea that we have to hide, you know, or even some of those people that were sharing that, oh, my gosh, I could never tell my husband. And that's where my heart just hurts, because and I and I've been there and a place to where, again, I don't know where this comes from. But there is a lot of, we don't talk about how you actually get to share all of yourself with your partner, partner, because that's why we choose to come into relationships is to really be all that we are, and then have an experience with another person in that space. And that means we don't hide aspects of us if we're struggling with some part or something's happened or we've, I mean, this is a long story. So I'm trying to I just had a personal aha moment years ago, where I had a friend of mine. That was like, why on earth would you not share all of who you are with your person. And a lot of times we don't, because there's that fear. But really, it's just allowing ourselves to expand even deeper with, with our, our spouse, with the person that we're choosing to spend our life with. And at the end of the day, is that not what all of us are seeking is to be unconditionally loved, and accepted and connect in such a deeper way, even if the idea of it scares the shit out of us. And we dive in anyway. And then we get to see what we're made of my belief system was preventing me from unconditionally loving my wife, not interesting. That's good, adds a beautiful awareness. It wasn't until I let some of those things go, that I could fully unconditionally love my wife. Yeah. And I'm so thankful that I did. Now she's like the best. Yeah. Which is, that's a whole we can have a whole other podcast about this because it is I'm only going to love you conditionally. You know, it's a conditional love because you fit these parameters, these boxes. Oh, now you don't want to be Mormon anymore. Wait a minute. Yeah. Ah, this has been awesome. It's been great. This has been super fun. So for all of those out there that are listening. Is there any advice that you would love to give for anyone that's in I mean, you had all these people that messaged you, so you already get a feel for what people are struggling with? What would be some words of Mimi wisdom of, hey, that would be helpful. You don't have to lose faith when you leave religion don't be afraid to clean out your cellar of of old beliefs. Yeah. Oftentimes, they're not serving you anymore. And we'll for sure post that song the link in the show. Yeah, it's awesome. I love that line that you I mean, it was more than just one line. It sounded like but That was beautiful. Yeah, you find yourself more when you let go of the layers? Mm hmm. I think that yeah, I think those would be like the three things is by through change have become more of the person that I that I am and bye bye that change I've it's really just letting go of stuff for me. Like the biggest changes is not necessarily like adding additional, like actions. It's removing like old stuff. Yeah. So yeah, I think those would be like the three things is so subtracting to add, like letting go to become more of yourself holding on to faith but as you're leaving religion and drunk sex was I can't remember something like that. I can't remember what it was something like that. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Although you're not drunk. I'm not you're taking names. It's very strange. Cuz it's like a different person. So like, and I hadn't had very many experiences like that. So this is where we're leaving it off, I guess is like I had I had to, like sit just out and be like, sometimes I get uncomfortable when we have sex and you're drunk. And I'm and I'm not I don't drink. So it feels like it's a different person. Another part of you that's coming out. Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's so funny. It's so great to see you. Oh, so good to see you. We definitely need to do much. I'd love for you to meet Jess. I would too. I would love that. So anything else you want to say before we wrap up? Um, no, I'm just thankful for the time to hang out with you. Yeah, you too. You too. You too. This has been so fun. All right. Well, thanks me, me for sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining me wasn't that a fun interview as Mimi Knowles make sure to go snag his latest release on Spotify. I will put it in the show notes. So it's easy just to go snag but it is an awesome song. I love Mimi's music, and just love who he is who he is. So make sure and go check out his latest single. And if you are feeling the call to share your story, I am actually looking for stories that are not based in Mormonism. So other religious leaving religion, any religion stories, if you are listening, and this is you reach out to me, you can email me I'll put my email down in the show notes or reach out to me on Instagram and message me there. And as always remember that you are not alone in your journey, and that we are here to help each other home. And if this podcast assists you in finding more and more of your spiritual center, then I am doing what I'm here to do and that makes me happy. So sending you all so much love