Angie Shockley. How she owned her space and beliefs, even when being raised within the church her grandfather started.

I am mixing things up a bit today as I had the privileged of sitting with one of my favorite people, Angie Shockley. Unlike my previous guests, Angie was not raised Mormon but raised as more 'protestant'.
Angie's grandfather was a huge influence in her life. At a young age, her grandfather enlisted in the military and later was deployed during World war 2. He was severely injured and while pleading with god for his life, he made the vow that if his life was saved he would devote his life to serving him.
His life was saved and he dove into reading the bible, later creating his own non-denominational church. He became a preacher, if you will, and raised his family in a religious setting that has some fairly strict rules, like women do not wear pants.
At around 14 years old, after a comment made from a woman in her church, Angie got up and walked out of the building and decided she would not go back. This was somewhat accepted in her family and was really never talked about.
Angie shares her beautiful story of life through these moments, her relationship with her grandfather after she left, her parents, her marriages and especially her year of being alone while she truly found herself. Angie and I also talk about trauma and some tools to navigate it.
As a Shamanic practitioner, teacher, business owner and someone who works with youth every day Angie brings with her a vault of wisdom and inspiration. This is another truly beautiful episode!

Links:

To connect with angie head over to her website: http://www.livingmindfullyaware.com
You can follow her on IG at: livingmindfullyaware
If you would like to contact her directly, her email is: mindfulangie@gmail.com


Also, if you are feeling a souls call to join my next retreat head over and secure your room: https://www.amandajoyloveland.com/unbind

My speakers symposium is coming up April 24th. Grab your tickets at: https://www.amandajoyloveland.com/breakingthrough

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:02

Welcome, welcome welcome to my podcast leaving religion and those really behind I am Amanda Joy Loveland. And as always, I am so thrilled to be here with you today, especially with this next guest. I'm so excited to share this interview with you. Before we dive in, head over to Apple podcasts and leave me a five star review, if you wouldn't mind. I've been receiving such beautiful comments lately and feedback with this podcast. And it really makes I don't make any money off of doing this. I haven't looked for sponsors. I haven't done any of that yet. Maybe I will down down the line. But my, my, I guess the reciprocity is the reviews and the comments and just knowing that what I'm doing and sitting here with these, these beautiful guests and them sharing their story and what they've learned is helping you in your life. So do me a favor, leave me a review, share this with your friends and family and help me to continue to grow this podcast because it really really is a beautiful, beautiful tool. And I still have a few spots left for my upcoming retreat down in Springdale, Utah, march 17th, through the 20th. This is an unbind and unwind retreat, where I will guide you through meditations sound healing journeys, experiences, and you'll get massages yoga, if you want to being in Zions National Park, to really uplift the soul to put down those pieces that are no longer serving and to answer more and more of your soul's calling in this life. If you are feeling a souls a yes to this, head over to my website, Amanda joy loveland.com Ford slash unbind to grab your spot today. And I have a speaker summit that's coming up April 24th. You know, back years and years and years, hundreds of years ago, we would have spiritual schools. And those spiritual schools really taught us more about life and our purpose here in this life and how we are connected to all things and our abundant manifestos and creators in this life. However, history has shifted that that model for all sorts of reasons. And we don't have those light schools, we don't have those mystery schools. And there is a desire for so many of us to learn more about ourselves and who we can really be. And this breaking barriers speaker symposium is one of those events that allows you to have a day experience with six speakers, including myself, where we will dive into topics like gratitude and the power of gratitude and mindset. Or if you are in the survival mindset versus thriving mindset, or how to rewire your story so that you're no longer a victim to it. But you see the empowerment in the story to so many other topics and have a somatic immersive experience so that you're not just being talked to, you're being worked with and spoken with and having experiences and exercises to allow you to really fully embody what the principle is that the speaker is talking to. So if this is a call for you also head over to my website, Amanda Joy loveland.com. Forward slash breaking through I will put the links in the show comments. And I look forward to seeing you there. And without further ado, let's dive into the interview that I had with Angie Shockley, who is an amazing, amazing human being and I am truly honored and grateful to call her my friend. All right. Well, Angie, I'm so excited. Are you ready? Are you ready? I'm ready, then. Let's do this. Thank God for zoom and the ability to connect. You and I met how many years ago now? Did I was trying to remember we went through the first round of medicine well together and then again, through practitioner, right. I think so through the first part of the practitioner, and then that's when you come back. Yeah. Yeah. That's been like 2015 2016, something like that. When I first stepped into the medicine, well, it was in 13. Anyway, yeah, you and I got to connect in that space, which, thank goodness, because you live in West Virginia, and I'm in Utah, and then we go to Idaho. Where we meet? Yeah. So I'm really you you had shared that you have kind of listen to some of the podcasts. And a lot of it resonated with you even though you don't have a Mormon background. Yeah. And you shared some of your story with me. And it's like, Oh, I really, really, I I'm going to start branching this podcast to talking to people of all faiths and all backgrounds in and really what ended up helping you to find your spiritual center. So I'm excited to have you as my first non Mormon. Guess it gets to be on this show. So thank you for saying yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the invitation. I'm excited to do this. So not Did you grow? You said that your was your grandfather. He was now what was he again, he so it's a long story and some new dive in write the book, but because it's a beautiful story too. So my grandfather was, I would not say a minister, I would call him a preacher. He did not go to seminary. So he grew up here in West Virginia, southern part of the state in a very small town, and he was rowdy and a great athletes and went into the Army and played football. And he was a Golden Gloves, champ. And, you know, I had this really incredible life. And he joined the army before he was 18 lied about his age to join the army. And he actually was part of the CCC Corps. And that's how he met my grandmother by building roads. And then he actually was dating her older sister, which is kind of interesting. And then he went off to fight in the Second World War. And he was injured. He was an officer, before he was injured, discharged as an officer, but he was injured in Africa and a piece of shrapnel, pretty good sized piece of shrapnel went through him. And they really were shocked that he lived at all. But he did and made it home to the states. And he was in Memphis, and he actually wrote a letter to my grandmother's mother and my great grandmother, and said, If you'll let Helen come and marry me, you know, I promised always take care of her, etc. And this, he had, he and my grandmother had been writing letters back and forth while he was in the army and serving. And so my great grandmother gave her permission, she got on a train, she rode to a hospital Memphis, and they were married. And from that point on, he, he had made that promise to God, you know, if you let me live through this, I'll give my life to you, which a lot of people have that story. But he lived it. And so he, he had no formal training, and he didn't even grow up in a church or in any kind of organized religion. Yeah. So what he did is he took the Bible and took it at its word, very literal, very black and white. And that's how he served his his church, created a church and, and, you know, he had a church building, and it burned down. And there were just lots of things that happened. And he ended up actually holding his church services in his house. And so my, when my, my dad, and I have one uncle, there were two, two boys in that marriage. And my dad, when he was younger, they went to church on Sunday, and Sunday night and Monday nights, and Wednesday night, and Friday nights, and then sometimes on Saturday. And so he kind of my dad is an interesting character, and I've learned so much about him, as I've become an adult, and really learned that he is very, very energetic, and His Church has always been the woods, he always goes to the woods. So, so anyway, so there's, you know, this long period of time, where my grandfather was just really, really reading the Bible and taking it at face value. And that's what he was preaching to everybody else. And, you know, it's it was a very fundamentalist approach. I think if you had to use an organized religion to compare it to it would be more fundamentalist church of God kind of approach and, and it was a patriarchy, you know, women. There are a lot of things women can't do. Women don't wear pants. Women don't play sports, women don't wear makeup, women don't cut their hair, women defer to men. And then God gave him me as his first grandchild. Here's a woman. And, um, so, you know, I so my mom. My parents have been married for almost 56 years. And they were highschool sweethearts, and my mom did not grow up in an organized religion or church of any kind, really. She had a great family, but it just that just wasn't a part of it. And my mom's a very spiritual person. So when she found my dad and then found my grandfather and this belief system, and she just really latched on to it, and it became sort of her, her guiding force through her her young life of getting married at 19. And, you know, having me very soon after that, and so it was something very, very important to her that she made sure that that my brother and I both were able to participate in this and that we learned it and you know, and so every night before bed, she would be in the hallway between our rooms and would read the Bible to us and, and I found comfort in that it wasn't it wasn't anything that was Bad or hard, I found comfort in it. And you know, there's still a lot of the Bible that I enjoy reading a lot of the songs and things like that. So then she would take us to Sunday school and church with my grandfather. And, you know, we, when I was little, it was kind of over my head, I didn't really, I just really didn't pay much attention to it. I remember, when I was pretty young, we used to all of course, sit together, my brother, me, my mom and my dad. And at some point, my dad, just like, I'm not doing this anymore. You know, I've been to as many church services as I can handle in one lifetime. And I'm just not doing this anymore. And so he, I think he went to the Sunday School service because mom wanted him to, and she wanted us to have that, that spiritual surroundings or teachings, you know, all of that. But at some point, he just was like, I, you know, I've done this my whole life, I'm not doing it anymore. So when we would go to church, he would go to the woods, and I grew up on a farm, and there's a lot of, it's about 300 acres. And so there's a lot of places he could go in the forest and find his piece. And he always said that to me, and I would hear it, but it didn't really make sense to me when I was a little kid. Now, it completely makes sense to me, because I do the same thing. But I guess, when I was probably 10, or 11, when I started to question, wait a minute, you know, so he's saying that women can't wear pants, but he bought me, coveralls to go to the barn and help him milk the cow. teaching me all these things. And he would when I was so little, like I remember being little young enough that I had standing on the floor, my grandfather sitting in a chair in the kitchen, and I would reach up to comb his hair. So I'm young. And he would tell me, he needed me to comb his hair. But what he would do is he would set me up to argue with him, didn't matter. Let me it didn't matter what the topic was. It just it didn't matter. He was teaching me to debate. And I realized that many years later, but at the time, like he it didn't matter the topic, he whatever I would say he would take the other side of it. And I would comb his hair and argue with him for hours. And he taught me so much as a child. And you know, he taught me to have respect for nature. And I mean, he taught me to drive, he taught me a lot of things in my life. And we had a very, very special bond. And I love my grandfather very, very much. And I still feel very connected to him. But there was a time when I and I was I was a good athlete, I was a high school basketball player. And I was I was good. My grandfather never missed a game. In fact, he got thrown out of some games, for yelling at the referee over me. So you know, so he very, very close. And I also had a lot of injuries as a high school basketball player. And I remember being in church one Sunday, and there was a lady in the church who was praying at the time and I was on crutches, I'd sprained my ankle. And I was on crutches. And so I've got my head down, you know, being respectful. And she's praying, and I'm listening to her. And she starts to pray that God will help me to see that running up and down the floor in the shorts and showing myself is not Christian like, and that's why I'm injured. And it was just like, boom, I set up. And I got my crutches. And I left. And that was it. I never went back. And I was I wasn't driving yet. So maybe 1415. And, and I had already like there was a lot of it that I would just tune out. Like I just, this is not for me. But I didn't make a big deal about it. But when that happened, that was a real defining moment for me. Like, this is not, you know, because because there was also the message of God gives us talents, and it's up to us to use those talents, whatever that talent is, right? And I'm thinking, Okay, this is giving me a scholarship to go to college. So I'm not sure how I'm not Christian by doing this. And why is my grandfather there? So I, I started to really question a lot of things in my mom. In some ways, my mom was always kind of a naive, shy, backward person. And there were a lot of things in life that I mean, you know, me enough to know that that is not me. So, you know, there were a lot of times that we didn't have those really in depth discussions about things we just didn't. She also is probably the person who taught me the most tolerance and kindness and to have love for everyone in my life, non judgment, you know, that I really got from them from my mom. But we never really had a big conversation about it. I just said, I'm not going back. That's, I'm just not it's not for me, and I'm not going back. And that was it. I didn't go back and She continued to go. And at some point my brother stopped going to, you know, it was it just wasn't that big of a deal. And we lived on the farm. My grandfather lived on the farm, my grandparents were just across the field from us, you know, when I ran away from home, I ran away to their house. So it was It wasn't like, I left the family or, you know, it wasn't that kind of a situation. And there were times that my grandmother would say something to me about it. And I made it very clear why I wasn't home back, then my grandfather never really said much to me about it. And as I got older, and he got older, and my grandmother passed away at a young age, she had breast cancer, and she passed away. And so my grandfather was by himself, and he was 11 years older than her. So he didn't, that was not his plan. His plan was she was gonna, he was gonna die first, you know, that was his plan. Okay, yeah. So he had all these plans in his life that really didn't go the way that he thought they would. And so we had some really great conversations towards the end of his life, about me and my life and things that I was doing. And you know, how I was expressing my spirituality. And this was long before I discovered shamanism or any of that kind of spirituality, this was more, I think, I've always had it, it's always been well, we know that i gets an innate part of us. And I always had the connection to nature, the connection to animals. And I remember sitting in our meadow under apple trees, and like having a deer come up really close to me and my aunt like to touch me, and my mom saw that, you know, so. So my family knew this about me for a long time mom said that I always rescued everyone, animals, people, whatever, she always made extra dinner, because she didn't know who I was going to bring home from school because somebody didn't have food that day, you know. And so nobody really, like questioned me on my spirituality, I think there was a lot of fear that I was going to go to hell, because I wasn't doing what was supposed to be done. And, you know, being saved, and all of those things that come up in religion, that really are fear based. And I also could not bring into I guess, I don't know, I couldn't, I could, it didn't match to me, that, that God is somebody who's going to punish people. And at the same time, be a loving God, I could not bring those two things together in my mind. And I hear a lot of the people on your podcast, that's something that they've struggled with too is like, how? How are we going to be punished for this? And how only certain people are going to find their way into heaven? And how are we supposed to love everyone? Oh, but we can't love these people. And you know, how, how is my god different than everybody else's? God? How is my God better than everybody else's God? And how, how are we right, and everybody else is wrong. Like I those are things I always struggled with, from the time I was a little kid. And so as I when I didn't go back anymore, and my grandfather still continued to be my grandfather. And I still had wonderful, a wonderful teenage years experience with him. And know, when he passed away, my brother and I were both there when he passed away. And he told me before he died, that I was one of his greatest teachers. And that meant meant more to me than anything he said to me in my entire life. Because there was a part of me, I like I didn't want to ever disappoint him, you know, but I also was strong enough to argue with him, which he taught me how to do. So we laughed about that sound. But I'd and I said to him one time, you know, you have all these really strong beliefs. And you're, you know, you're a godly man. And I'm your grandchild. I'm the first grandchild that came into your life, and I have challenged everything that you have put in front of me. But you love me. And I believe God loves me. And I believe that I'm a good person, I believe I have a lot to offer the world. You know. I was the first person in my family to get divorced. That was a big one. That was a huge one because it was part of the belief system I grew up with not exactly like Mormonism where you're together for all of eternity. But like you can only be married to one person. And even if you get divorced, you can never be in another marriage will never be recognized. Like that kind of thing. Like you. That's your only mate ever. And then I got married and divorced again. And my grandfather performed the ceremony my first marriage too. So that was and I was very young, very, very young when I got married and very headstrong and you know that my first ex husband is still one of my very best friends today's his birthday actually. And we talked today you know, he's he's great. and I love him. But it wasn't we weren't to be married. And so, of course, my, my grandfather did not perform the second wedding ceremony, but he did attend. And, you know, there was acceptance of me as divorced. You know, I felt like I had the scarlet letter on my forehead for a long time. But I also had to do what was in my best interest and my kids best interest. So. So it was, you know, it's it's an interesting concept that leaving religion in those really behind because I feel like in some ways, I did leave some people behind like, particularly my mom, just because we've never really been able to share that same kind of connection when it comes to Christian Christianity and religion. Like she's still very much, you know, in that part of her world. She has not attended a church since my grandfather passed away. But she still believes that same. Now what has happened through the years is my mom wears pants and my mom is not upset about me being divorced. And she's she knows about my, the shamanic work that I do. And your dogs need some love? Yes. And so I that was one thing I stressed about, like, how would I tell her what I do? How would I explain this to her, and my dad had to have a knee replacement, and we were in the hospital. And we're waiting, and we're bored, and it came up. And so I just was talking to her about it. And that's when I really realized that language is so important, like God is God is spirit is universe is source as whatever, like if I use the term God with her, she understood if I had used the term spirit or source with her, she would have seen it as something weird, or it would not have fit into her box. But using the word God with her and explaining my belief system. She was like, Yeah, I understand that, that's, you know, she was perfectly okay with it, which was really cool. To have that kind of acceptance, you know, of me living a much different lifestyle than my mom and having a different belief system and different structure around that. And, you know, I don't feel like she is worried that I'm gonna burn in hell forever. I don't say I think she has kind of let go of that a little bit. But she still has those very basic beliefs about the Bible that it's, you know, very, the word is the word. And we have to do it this way. And so we do disagree on some things with that, as you can imagine. Yeah. But I do feel like that there's a respect for my choice to not be a part of that to not raise my children that way. Because that was another thing. Like, you have to raise your children this way. And if your children aren't saved, and a part of this belief system, then they're gonna go to hell. And then, you know, it's just this fear based belief system that I just was not going to put on my children. I just wasn't and no, so to me, you know, both my kids are adults. Now I have a grandson and both my kids are, he is he's a lot of fun. And both my kids, I would say, are very spiritual. But neither one of them are religious. Neither one of them actually go to a church. But they have their own spiritual practices, which I feel completely comfortable with. And, you know, they've nicknamed me Shama mama, and I have cups and hats. So that's Shama mama. So, you know, it's just, it's been an interesting journey of letting that go. And I think some of the fear around letting that go, like some of what I've heard some of your other guests talk about, like, if you don't have that structure around you, then what do you have and where do you go? And I think that was, I didn't realize I had it when I was in it. But looking back now, I realized that I really did. And I think that's why I when I got divorced, the first time I got remarried so quickly is because I had no, I had nothing to groundbait I had no no system around me that that gave me any kind of guidance, and I wasn't strong enough in my own identity at that point to let it be me. I couldn't be my own beacon. And I was looking for something and so I looked for in another man versus, you know, I didn't want to go back into the church. I didn't want to do that. And, and I got some pressure at that point in time. You know, well, you could come and do this and you can be forgiven and all these sorts of things. And that was, I knew that wasn't what I wanted. So I was out there kind of looking around for what is my path? What's my beacon and it took a long time it took a took a long time to really kind of feel strong enough in my own belief system's to not be fearful that I was doing something wrong, or that I was going to burn in hell is that real? Like, am I really gonna burn in hell for all eternity like how? You know, so even though cognitively I knew that that was not real, I think, intuitively and energetically, it was ingrained in me to the point that I did have to do work to let that go. And the first time around the wheel was it, it shook my foundation a little bit. It felt right, everything felt right. But then I would go to do my work, my personal work, and I would have these doubts. It does this go against what's right. You know, so Well, I and a lot of times people will ask if shaman a shaman ism is a religion. And I think that's where you bounce up against it when you first step into something like that, that you wonder if this conflicts with Yeah, the things of your use of your childhood of your family systems. And so I completely understand that and just for context with people that are listening, the year the medicine was a year long process where you the medicine was all personal. It's all where you get to dive in, and you get to look at your connections with your, you know, for me, my first time around was, were connecting with earth energy, and I couldn't connect with her because the mother wound was so deep within me that I had to go clear. My connections with the female line in my family system, and it was deep, you know, I had no idea it was there. Mm hm. So, yeah, just to give a little bit of context, when we're talking about the will and, and personal work. I mean, it's it's a beautiful, I love shamanism. Hmm, me too. And now I teach the wheel. It's, you know, the journey has been so incredible. Yeah, it? But yes, I did. I had to go through all of that, as I'm learning. It's almost like you're relearning. It's not like you're learning something new. It's like you're relearning what you already knew. But it was so hidden by all of these systems that are placed on us in society. You know, when beyond religion, but especially religion, I think really, it it keeps us from knowing our intuitive truth. And I think for me, having that cleared away. And same as you I had to do a lot of personal work to move old wounds that I didn't even know I had. And then when they came into my awareness, and I was able to move them, it was like, any leftover fear or resentment that I had about what happened in my my teens, was gone, I was able to look at it with so much, much love. And I mean, for a lot of years, I really didn't like that woman who said that, I really like her, you know, I was really mad at her. And her daughter was a really good friend of mine, we share a birthday, and, and I had really just had a lot of anger towards her. And so during that personal work that you mentioned, through the Medicine Wheel, I was able to let that go. And to see that experience with so much love and kindness, knowing that she was doing the best that she could with what she had at the time. And that her concern for me was real. You know, it wasn't to be mean to me. And to be able to put it into that context was healing for me. And she has since passed away and I've reconnected with her daughter, thanks to social media. We live in different states, but you know, just to to watch her be able to go out and live her life in a way that makes her happy. And she's not restricted by those same beliefs because she stayed in she stayed very much involved with the church and very much in that religion and wore the you know, the almost look like Amish clothing through high school. Oh, yeah. Like, when you when you guys did go to church, what was the what church was it? It wasn't it didn't really have a name like it. It was just my grandfather. And he didn't. He refused to be a part of any denomination. He didn't want to be a part of anything else. He wanted to do it his way, which is absolutely in character with him now that I know so much about him completely in character with him. He wasn't going to follow somebody else. He was going to do it his way. And I do he did start his own church. I was I wanted to circle back because I know you had mentioned that and then it burned down and then church out of home. So he continued. Wow. That is a big, big undertaking. Yeah. He was a really really intelligent, incredibly connected man. And you know, he was he was an officer to the point that when in later and I mean, he always went to the closest base for his medical appointments, and you know, and we, they literally told him, he wouldn't live past 30. And he was in his 80s when he passed away, and he had a colostomy bag his entire adult life because of the injury that he had. And so he, even when my dad would go with him later in life, and they would go to one of the military bases, he didn't just sat on his regular clothes, but he would walk in and I mean, people snap to like, he would not talk about what he what he did in the army, and we found a chest of metals, that he would never, he just wouldn't talk about it. And he, he wouldn't talk about metals that he won, he would, he was, he took that humility piece to the extreme, that he he was so afraid of living from his ego. That's how I can talk about it now. I didn't know then. But we found a lot of this stuff, you know, later in his life, and he had a Purple Heart. You know, he had all kinds of metals. I don't even know what all of them meant. And but he wouldn't talk about it. But he, yeah, he carried a very high respect in the military world, up until the time that he passed away. And and he also I know had a lot of trauma wounds from that experience, you know, now looking through the shamans eyes, I see those two. Yeah, but he was just such a gentle kind person. And he, he, he loved me with absolutely unconditional love. And to be able to have that experience with him, while also seeing him be this person that I just It just didn't make make sense to me, you know. And I, I so wish I could have you know, that one more conversation with him where I could ask questions now, with a different filter. Because I didn't know what to ask. When he was passing. I didn't know what questions to ask man. And now, and of course, every journey is perfect. And I know that and I know the gifts of my time with him. And even beyond that. And, and, and this will this is also for everybody listening, this is part of the Medicine Wheel journey. But you know, working with your own ancestors, and I have discovered that I had ancestors who were shaman on his side of the family, and being able to connect with them and realize that there was that part of him that he was a healer. It's just that his modality was was very different. And because of his trauma wounds, he couldn't, he couldn't do it any other way. He couldn't, he didn't know how he didn't know how to do it any other way. So he did it the only way he knew how. So it's it's been, it's been really interesting for me to go through this process on my my own through the medicine wheel and becoming a shaman and learning how to teach and all of this, this awakening that I have this rediscovery of my true self, and knowing that he was there, and he didn't get to do it in his lifetime. And, you know, it's obviously it's for another lifetime. And obviously, it's for when it's right for him right for his soul to have that discovery. But I feel like him saying to me that I was one of his greatest teachers. I think that was true. Like I really I think I challenged him at every turn. Yeah, but did. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. And we colluded with one another. He got me my first pony. Oh, I guess all of my parents advice and wishes he still got me my first pony. So, you know, and I've had this journey with horses my whole life. And so that was something special I had with him. I definitely had a special connection with him for sure. Well, I'm you know, we all have complicated relationships with our family members. And for sure, it sounds like you had this very beautiful, complicated relationship with your grandfather. Yeah, yes. And I'm so glad that I just kind of went with it. Like I didn't. I didn't worry about it. Like I didn't overthink it when I was younger. And I'm glad because I think if I had I don't think it would have been as special. And I don't think it would have been as meaningful we would have thought I would have thought with him more. But I didn't find a need to fight with him. For some reason. I didn't have to prove I was right. And you know, as a teenager and a young adult, you're proving you're right about everything because it's how you survive in this world. And there was never a time I felt I needed to prove I was right to him. I just was okay with me being me and him being him and I'm really really grateful for that. Yeah. So you what I'm curious in in your journey as you're kind of uncovering and asking to see different you know, you talked about a few of your marriages. Trying to find these pieces of you to ground yourself? What led you to finding more and more of who you are today? Like, did you do anything else before you dove into shamanism? Or how did that unfold? Um, I think that the, well, if I, if I go back, and I look at it without the current filter that I have, I think I was really, really flailing around for a lot of years. I really do. Like I, you know, I had a period of my time, a period of my life where I didn't make good decisions. Well, on any level, I just didn't, and I in it was 2003, I believe I call it the year of being alone. And that was really, I think, the beginning of my journey in. So I think, because of what I've rediscovered about myself, was there. And I think that it was divine intervention, allowing me to kind of experience some of this. So I, I had the first two marriages, a second marriage ended, got into a really, really unhealthy relationship with a man that I knew. I knew when I was in it. I knew, but you know, you can compartmentalize that stuff. And you just say, it'll be okay. I'll make it. I'll make it okay, I'll make it okay. Well, it just kept getting progressively worse. And it actually ended with me having a miscarriage. And that was a real pivotal moment. For me, it, it really was I at that point was, that was the end of it. Like that was the moment that I didn't need to see speak, to hear from be a part of that person's life anymore. And I also realized that I had to, I had to find me. And I really had never been completely on my own up to that point, I had gone from my parents to college, married my first husband, before I was out of college, then had to move back home with my parents and then marry my second house. Like I never, I never had that space to find me. And so I, I had my own house on our family form. I both my kids, and I just said, That's it, like, I'm going to go to work, and I'm going to go home, and I'm going to deal with me. And I did. And in that time i i read some books, and I probably can't even tell you what books I read at that point. But that's where I really started, like, doing my own research around spirituality like what? What is the meaning of life? Why am I here? What am I supposed to be doing this? None of this feels okay to me. So where do I have to go in order to feel okay with me? That was my question. And one of the things that came really strongly for me was like, I had to take accountability for myself, and for my life. And so I did i i spent, I learned how to meditate. I spent a lot of time on our farm in nature, I've walked around our farm, I can't even tell you how many times in that year. And I can remember feeling really cold wind on my face, and really warm wind on my face and just that connection to nature. And, and I knew I had that a new always had that. And I knew I needed it. But I began to explore it as almost as a as a religion really, like this, I knew that make having that connection to the earth gave me peace. And so I I really spent time exploring that and, and, you know, trying really hard to find out like how, how to how to bring that connection more to myself. So there was that, and then that accountability piece, it was like, Okay, how for how many years have I been lying to myself about I was perfect. And everybody else was wrong? You know, how many years have I've been doing that? And where do I need to step up and take accountability. And there were a lot of places in my life. And so one of the first things I did was reach out to both ex husbands and say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for my part of whatever happened, you know, I'm, I'm sorry. And it was interesting having that conversation with them. Because it was what was different with both of them, but both of them were like, well, there's nothing to apologize for, like you know, it just it is what it is and I'm sorry too. And so it was It wasn't like a big aha moment but it was For me, it was the first time that I realized that forgiveness is about me, it's not about the other person. And when you forgive yourself, that is a huge step in the right direction. So in that year, I crocheted a lot. I keep my hands busy a lot. And my grandmother had taught me how to crochet. And so I made a lot of blankets, because I'm not really that good at it, but I can make a square. So I did that. And you know, my dad would come visit me. And I remember mom telling me that your dad's really worried about you. He says, You're just down there crushing like an old lady need to go out, need to have friends. And I'm like, No, I'm good. I'm fine. I'm good. I'm good doing what I'm doing. Now, you always have this time where you didn't I, Sarah and Michael? Yes, sir. And Michael Cera, Michael. Yeah, I had both of them. And I figure a single mama at this time tells us single mama, and Z, you know, so So there's all the financial stuff. And, you know, I had done what most women do when they leave marriages took debt and didn't worry about it. And so I had all of these things really kind of come to a head and, and time to go, okay, stop, let's stop. And I was running a wilderness program Wilderness Therapy Program at the time. So I had this really intense, heavy job that I loved. And all this other stuff going on in my life. And I was surrounded by some incredibly strong, intuitive women who took me under their wing and provided me with a safe space to talk about whatever I needed to talk about. And so that was really the, the pivotal point for me was all of that. And so it, I think it was divine intervention, I really do I, you know, that I mourn the loss of that child. That was hard. But I know it was a really important part of my journey as well. And I've worked with that demonically. And I know what the gift was, and it is. And I think from that point, then it was other people coming into my life, and with purpose and meaning and people that I had sort of none. And all of a sudden, like they're really in my awareness. And they're talking to me about the medicine wheel. The Wilderness program that I ran, was loosely based on the medicine wheel, but I didn't really understand all of that at the time. The gentleman who started the program had taken the medicine wheel at four wins. And so he built this therapeutic program around the medicine wheel, and I look back at it now I'm like, Oh, my God, that was like, incredible. You know, yeah. And so there were just so many things that really, they just, it was divine intervention that came into my life. And so Kim, who lives in Sandpoint, I had, she and I had been, you know, kind of loose acquaintances for a long time. And, and the world kind of threw us together a little bit. And she had taken the medicine wheel with the four winds and, and knew the teacher in Idaho and said, you know, if you'll come take the class, I'll take it with you. And when she made that kind of commitment, she had been talking to me about it for a long time. But when she made that level of commitment, I was like, okay, then this must be important. And so I said, Yeah, so that was, and that was like, whatever year 2013 20, whatever year that was, that's when I first stepped onto this journey path. And, and so I think, you know, as I went through the first round of the wheel, and was looking back at my year of being alone and going, that's the first time I walked the wheel. I walked it that year, I just did it without God, it's I did it without really having the knowledge, the box to put it in. But I did so much of that work on my own that year. And, and I you know, it was the first time in my life that I was like, so intentional about everything I said, and everything I did, and the people that I brought into my life and into my children's lives. And, you know, I apologize to my children for not being fully present with them. And I still have, I still have stuff to deal with with that. And but and my kids are great. My, you know, my daughter's 33 My son's 28. And they're great. But I still talk to them about this a lot. Because I want them to understand, and I want them to have the ability to deal with those things as they come up for them and not, you know, after the fact like Got it, I want them to be able to wade through it now, with better tools, which I think is part of my purpose as a parent, and as a healers heal my family. But yeah, I I, like, was so careful about making sure everything I said was true. And I was really living with the Four Agreements, I was really, that was really an important concept to me, you know, the integrity, you know, walk your talk. So mean what you say do the best that you can, and then know that you have to let it go after that. So, so yeah, so from, you know, for what, 10 years there, I was kind of fumbling around on my own. Until I just found this path that really helped me know that I am beacon that everything I need is within, and my relationship with God is incredible. I really feel deeply connected. I've really loved hearing you talk about your connection to God, the death of your God and spirit and source. And you know, a lot of the languages is the same for us because of the, the way that we've trained and dinner and work. But, but knowing that there's a higher power and having 100% faith in that, and being able to let go. And trust has been just pressing for me, because I think, I don't think that I, you know, when I had that experience with this woman who's praying for me, because I'm a horrible person. I didn't, I didn't get mad at God about that. I got mad at her about that. But I think it really stopped me from being open enough to have a relationship with a higher power, if that makes sense. Thinking clouded everything for me. And I didn't trust it. I didn't trust that higher power, like how are you going to take care of her. And me, like, that doesn't make sense to me, you know, in my 15 year old brain or whatever. But I think that, that, that really clouded everything for me. And so now to be able to, to pray, connect to trust. And, you know, when I talk to people who are in recovery, and they live by let go, let God like, that's real. And I feel it every day. And I'm so grateful for that. That's beautiful. It's interesting that you're bringing up trust a few times. And I, I feel like there's such an interesting dynamic with the dance that we play with God source spirit. And that's very, very layered. And in my experience in the more I'm diving into this, there's so many different types of Gods out there. And so many different versions of God that we get to connect with, and then we disconnect from that version and connect to a different version and disconnect from that. And there is this trust that happens with you know, it's like having a parent figure that somehow wounds you you lose trust. And so having a relationship with that person, it takes time to regain that depending on you know, whatever the situation was, and yeah, I read everything just beautiful that you're speaking to, and, and you do a lot of really beautiful work now. I mean, what will you share with us a little bit of what you're what you're doing? I know you're, I mean, you're teaching I want to, I want you to share that. But then I want you to share, like what you do do. Yeah, I knew that for a while. I have I so I've, I have always been that healer, I have always been that that person, my mom says, rescues everything. And I've also learned that rescuing is not the way to get the triangle, right? You don't don't want to step on that triangle. But so what I have done for over 30 years of I've worked with at risk youth. And I right now I have three young adult transitional living programs here in West Virginia. They're very small. And I work with adults with disabilities. And I do a lot of energy healing with that population, which is unique. I don't know of many people who do that. And I've found a way to work with adults who have pretty significant disabilities, no low functioning autism schizoaffective disorder, dual diagnosis where they have a mental health challenge, but also an addiction issue. And I feel like the clients that come into my path are absolutely here divinely. It's not a I don't feel like it's a business situation where I'm like marketing and trying to recruit I don't go at it from that perspective. I believe that who needs me will find me and what I need to do with them. I do and so I'm able to To help them at a level that they've not been able to experience in the past past Yeah, and and then on a literal level, help them to create a community where they can feel safe. And so that's that's kind of my what I do in my part of my professional career. And then I also have a nonprofit equine therapy program called saddles and smiles. And I use my connection with horses, which I do Reiki with horses and some shamanic work with horses because they have trauma as well. And that's another path that's kind of been opened up to me in the past few years. And so that's been really interesting, wonderful work for me to do. But we also, we operate this nonprofit and we provide services for a lot of families and children that live close to me here in West Virginia, we're in a pretty remote area. And there are not a lot of services nearby. And so families struggle to get services for their kids, whether it's trauma, or whether it's autism, or physical challenges, or mental health challenges. And so we provide services for those folks free of charge in the area. And we have an incredible support system to be able to do that. And then I'm a practicing shaman and I have a pretty, pretty big practice, work with people all over the world at this point. And, and I'm teaching the medicine mill, and I'm also putting together some retreats that are combining shamanism and Neurofeedback to work on deep trauma wounds. And I do some presentations, like day long, little workshops or presentations with people in the area, or those who want to come in to work on how they can begin to release the limiting beliefs that are holding them back. And that leads me to a lot of individual coaching with people. So I yeah, I've got a pretty busy, pretty busy life. Yes, you are doing so many beautiful things and giving your gift to the world. It's like gonna say I love everything you're doing. I feel very, very blessed to be able to do what I do. I have an incredible team of people around me and again, they are, they're just their gifts. They're it's divine intervention to have the people around me that I have that are able to support everything to allow me to do what I do. At the end of my year of being alone, I met my current husband and we will be celebrating, almost, I guess we're close to 20 years total being together. And up to that point, it was five years like five years was maternity repoint. Like, yeah, life with me, and then you're out the door. And we're moving on. Like, that was a big joke. It's still a big joke. But yeah, it you know, I family, because I was okay with me. And I learned to love me. And I learned to know who I was then I found a partner who truly is a partner who walks beside me, and who is such an intuitive, energetic, incredible human with no clue that he is i It's Unbeliev I mean, he but he, in fact, when I was gone, going to the second round of the wheel and the practitioner training, and I had all these reasons why I couldn't do it. He's the one that like, Yes, you are doing this, you know, and I had all the reasons the time commitment, the money, you know, all we were struggling financially at the time, like all of these things, and, and he there was no question for him. He was the one who said, This is not even an option. You have to do this. And you know, he just has such respect for the work that I do. Even if he doesn't speak the language, you know, yeah. And I'm just I'm so grateful to have all of the people around me that support everything that I do and allow me to, you know, juggle 17 balls every day, and be present. It was funny this morning, I was doing my meditation breath work this morning. And this question popped up. I don't even know where I saw it. But this question popped up, like, how are you going to show up today? And, you know, I knew I was doing this with you at the end of my day. And I knew I had several sessions, shamanic sessions today and, and a few other things and it felt overwhelming. It's like, well, how are you going to show up today? And the answer was to be present to be fully present in each thing, and not worry about the next thing. And I teach that but sometimes, I think when we are doing multiple things, we're thinking ahead, and we're not fully present. We're going through the motions of some things. And it was just such a great reminder of that. Yeah, show up fully present, because that's how we do it. And that's what works. And that's what I have to do every day. One, even as you're recounting that story with your grandfather, it sounds like that's what you were doing with him. Like, there wasn't any worry or trepidation as far as well as he gonna judge me? Or is he gonna think this, it was just you were being you and being present in the moment? And I mean, I correct me if I'm wrong, but as you're recounting it now, as you're sharing this, now, I might get, it sounds like it feels like that's what you were doing, which 100%? And I didn't think about it like that at all. That's, you're exactly right. I was, I was in that place of free and easy. I'm just going to be I mean, I had an amazing childhood. I really did. I had, I just had an amazing childhood. And, you know, I wouldn't change a thing about it. And so I had such a great family support system that I could be that I could be fully myself. And it was okay. And I've never thought about it from that perspective before. So thank you for that. Because you're exactly right, I was present. And they think that's such a beautiful gift to offer in this conversation, too, especially as we're getting towards the end of wrapping up of, you know, it's often the what ifs and the fears of the what ifs and the fear of judgment or the fear. And they're all things that we're creating in our mind that aren't even real. And it is when we're able to be present. That's when we have the full gifts of whatever is happening in that moment. And there isn't room for those What if some of those fears and that whatever that broken record is wanting to play, there's not room for that when we're choosing to be completely in the moment? Yeah, and it's such a gift. Yeah, it really is. And I, you know, when I'm, I love to fish, I love to ride my horse, I love all of the outdoor things, all of them. And when I am doing those things, if I'm in the middle of a river, or if I'm flying across a meadow on the back of a horse like that is the most free and present, I feel. In fact, when I'm riding a horse as fast as it can go, it's like slow motion for me, everything slows way down. And that is that place of absolute connection, absolute presence. And I love having that. And, you know, my practice allows me to have that, when I'm fully present with a client, I can have that same feeling to. And I think I think we chase that our whole lives. I think we do. And I think sometimes we haven't we don't realize we have it. And it's hard. Well, I think it's similar to as you've been speaking to several things, one of those is, you know, these, this idea of removing layers by constructs that we've bought into and that we've been embedded in of finding what's always been there. It's the same thing with what you're just we're speaking to. And there was something else I was going to touch on. And now it's it's leaving my mind. So I guess we're not I guess it's not meant to be. But you for some reason, and I'm not quite sure why it feels to ask this. But because you do seem to work with a lot of clients that have trauma, which is a unique field and a difficult a challenging field to be in. Is there any words of advice or wisdom that you would could offer someone who is either in trauma, and maybe in a fight or flight kind of situation in their life, that would be helpful. Find that place where you can slow down. Because trauma response is really, the brain is running, racing, racing, racing, and it is a fight or flight it is survival. So find that place that you can slow down, if it's in nature, if it's in a church, if it's at your parents, if it's at the grocery store, find that place where you can slow down and from that place. Set up your resources. You can't when you're in that fight or flight that that brain racing, trauma response. It's it's impossible to see what's there. And even if you are in that and people are trying to help you, you can't hear them. You can't see how it can be helpful. So the first thing has to happen is is that slow down, step out. You've got to step out of your life and find that slow down and find that place of peace and for a lot of people that I work with it has been prayer, you know going into prayer and they do have faith. And they they do believe in their God and they trust it but they're there's a disconnect between that level of trust, and that trauma that they're living day in and day out. And so that takes over. So find that place where you can be at peace, and find that slow down. And then that slow down, begin to logically think through what are my resources? Where is my wound? What do I need? When you're talking resources? What do you mean? Whether it's so if it's somebody who's in a, you know, a dangerous situation, for example, like, who are the people that provide safety? You know, I think about situations where children are in danger. You know, how do you get your children safe? What do you need to do to be safe? That's number one. And then, other in other situations, like if you know, that you're in that trauma response, you know, you're in a situation that feels you know, in your body, like you feel it in your body, if you know, if it's not like one of those overtly dangerous, abusive situations, that kind of trauma, but but it's a situation where you know, you're not, you're not where you should be, you know, you know it in your body, you feel it. And so what are the resources there in order to find something different in your life? Is it a therapist? Is it you know, is it someone in your church? Is it a friend? Is it your podcast like that? I know, I know, your podcast is inspiring to so many people, because they talk to me about it. You know, so I know that that's one of the things like if and if you find one thing that speaks to you, that's going to lead you to something else that speaks to you. And it's going to give you more and more resources to help support you make the change that you don't know how to make. Yeah. While a safety is always that big piece, right, especially for people who are in a trauma response, like you can't actually move anywhere until you get to a place to where you feel safe. Yeah. Yep. And in your experience, what would you what is your thoughts on anxiety? Because that seems so rampant right now. And I don't know, if you're seeing it. There's so many different opinions and different belief systems, and it's yeah, I'd be curious, your thoughts on that? If you don't mind sharing? Yeah, it's, it's, I have the same question, honestly. Because yes, it's almost every person that I work with, anxiety is a huge part of it. And I think, you know, I work with a lot of young adults and, and, you know, older teens, and I think for them, society, we've created it, we've created this anxiety with them. And, you know, it's, it's, it's so hard for them to be who they are, or to go through that process of discovering themselves at that age. Like, even for me to get up and walk out of my grandfather's church at such a young age, nobody was going to put that on Facebook, or send a Snapchat or Angie walking out of church, like nobody was going to do that, you know. And right now, the kids and young adults that I'm working with, they have so many external requirements, they're not, but they perceive them to be that, and they don't have a lot of safe space in their lives, because they're so connected to everything all the time, there is no time for them to slow down, be quiet, find that place of serenity and peace. They don't have time to do that. And, and so they, you know, without fail, every one of them that I'm currently working with, their anxiety is tied back to their perception of themselves, their fear of disappointing somebody, usually not their parents, it's usually appear of some sort, or an idol that they have, or their fear that they won't be this perfect person, you know, they're in the search for perfection. And their perception of perfection is unrealistic. And, yeah, and so they're, they're out there in the world, rather than just discovering who they are. They're searching for something they can never attain. And so it just got to be compounds everything. Yep. Yeah. Yes. Well, yeah, not and and go ahead. No, you go, there seems like there's a little bit of a lag. Go ahead. And so I, you know, the one the young people who are strong enough to stand up in their own identity, they're then getting a barrage of bereavement, for being who they are. And that's also connected to the the xpect unrealistic expectations that they have to face every day. So you know, this. This brings up two thoughts in my mind one, you know, I'd be curious, actually way, for anybody who does have anxiety and is experiencing that right now, if you could actually go back and look at what you're thinking and what your thoughts are, and notice if that isn't creating your anxiety, and to match to what you're speaking of, I mean, this to me is that whole Christ complex, you will be crucified for stepping out of the norm and stepping out and going against what societal, the society is teaching you is okay and acceptable and, quote unquote, perfect, and you will be crucified. And this is an this is an archetype of Christ that I think needs to be unlocked, and release and let go of that is very much alive and rampant within our society. And yeah, it's just unfortunate. We, we just had a 12 year old in our community that took that took his life recently, because of some bullying and things that were happening at school, and it was just heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. Yeah. Yeah, I, you know, in 2016, I had 11 people in my life, take their own lives. And, yeah, it was, um, I think if I had not been in the medicine wheel, then I don't know that I would have survived that whole process. I have since gained the gifts of all of that I know the gifts. But I, now, you know, I had one of my, one of my shamanic clients call last night because her daughter was in the hospital. She's 13 suicidal ideation. She's, she's, you know, she's very different. She's an artist, she's an incredible artist, but she's she dresses her own way, she walks her own path, and she's being bullied at school. Because she's different. And, you know, in what you were saying about the Christ complex, one of the things that kind of dropped in for me is like, I think a lot of the young adults that I'm working with, like they've had this indoctrination for I that's what it is, when they were little. And they don't know it, they they're not aware of it. You know, I, I have young adults who really are, are seeking spirituality in some way or another. And some of them go so far away from what their traditional family belief system is, because they don't know how to function within it. And so they just blow everything out of the water, and then their parents don't know how to deal with them. And then you got all these, this trauma that happens in the family system because of that. But I, I, I really believe that a lot of this happens when they're little, because of the the religion that they are in. And it's not like their parents are doing this on purpose that, you know, it's right. They're taking them to church, they want yeah, they want them to have a good structure, they want them to be good people and kind and, you know, I get it, but I also see the, the other side of it, when they get to me, and they're so lost, and they don't want anything to do with religion or any structure like that. And I think you're right, I think that it's, it's something that does need to be opened up, explored and changed. And I and you know, for some of them, they can do that energetically without having to relive the whole thing, like, because they don't even I can't even put language to it. But for a lot of them, they can't. And then for a lot of the adult clients that I work with, they just are, you know, they really struggle with with that whole idea of, yeah, so I'll be crucified if I step outside of the perceived norm, and so I can't be who I am. And so I'm just going to be this other person. And then, you know, their Marriages and children, and then jobs and all these things that don't fit with who they are. And then they have anxiety, and then something will eventually collapse. That's what's challenging if you live against, I think this is one of the most beautiful things about us as humans in general. And your story was a beautiful example of this. And all of us can echo that. When we don't live our path and we go we will have all these things will keep bumping up that are painful as hell until we get to that point where we have the dark night of the soul or we have this. Okay, I guess now I get to go I get to start asking the really hard questions because this isn't working. Yeah. And it's that feedback of life that we get to really look at and go I'm not I'm not okay with how this is looking anymore. What do I really need to do now? Yeah, and for a lot of us, it takes some really, really difficult experiences and I I echo the same painful thing to go because strong, calm you know, I'm a little bit of a Anyway, there's a whole other conversation. Yeah, I'm gonna do things my way. But yeah, my dark night of the soul was my year of being alone knows that, Okay, it's time to look at me. I've been hiding behind all these other things for so long. And now it's time to really look at me. Thank God I did, you know, I'm so grateful that I did. I'm so grateful that for the life that I have now, and I'm so grateful for the people that I get to touch and that my children are a whole different, you know, now I get to touch my grandson with the same thing, you know, and that they don't have to go through that same process. And, and yet, I'm so grateful for what I had, you know, it's it's, yeah, I left the religion. But I'm so grateful for the experience. And you know, and I do I want to say that I so appreciate the safety that you create in the space that you hold for this because this isn't about bashing the religion or, you know, it's not it's, it's a part of the journey. And if not for that, I wouldn't be where I am now. Right. And so it's, I get to have that great love and respect for my grandfather, and what he did. And I know, he touched hundreds of people in a really beautiful way. And I'm grateful for that. You know, I'm not I it's it's not the way I want to live my life. And and you know, but he did touch a lot of people that that's what they needed at that time. So yeah, I just wanted to acknowledge that. I think that's really beautiful, that you do that. Well, thank you. I appreciate you saying that. And our time is coming to an end. Is there anything else that you would like to share or leave with? I think the important thing from today is just the important thing to leave everyone with. And that is, how are you going to show up today? Yeah. How are you going to show up today? Yeah. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Angie, I really appreciate you and just I have such deep love for you. Like, we got to spend some time and some sacred space. And ever since I just feel like we're we're just soul sisters. And I just appreciate you and love, love, love the gifts that you're bringing to the world. If someone did want to connect with you. Do you have a website, what's living mindfully aware calm? Is my website. A good email is mindful AMG at Gmail, and I'm fine with people sending an email in I am on Instagram, mindful AG. And I, I have a fabulous Facebook group. It's a closed group, but if anybody would want to be in that, they could get in touch with me. And I'd be happy to add them into that group. And yeah, and I mean, I go and put these on the in the show notes, too. Okay. And what were you gonna say, Angie, I was just gonna I just wanted to say that, yes, the the short period of time that we got to be in the same space was incredibly meaningful to me. And I had, for all the listeners, I had one of the most amazing shamanic healing moments with Amanda. And it has always it has changed things for me from that moment on, things really changed. And so you know, that was, at the moment, I don't even think you were really aware of how impactful that was for me, because we were both in training. But it really was. It really was, it was so powerful and so meaningful. And so I've always been so grateful for that. And I love watching you grow all the things you're doing. Like when you think eautiful family is you're you're just living your truth. And it's awesome to see. So you. Thank you again, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you for the opportunity. Oh, these interviews, so excite me and fuel my soul. I'm sure there was some beautiful wisdom that you gained from this interview today. And I'm really excited to start branching out and start having different conversations with people of all faiths and all backgrounds, and all religious upbringings because I think there's wisdom to be held in all dynamics. So if you're feeling the call to share your story, head over to well, just go ahead and email me AJ at Amanda Joy wcco.com. And let's see if this is a fit for you to be on my podcast. And again, head over to my website, see the next events that I have coming up. They're truly beautiful events. And these are all offerings that I am creating and cultivating to assist you in removing the layers that are prohibiting you from accessing that inner core self, that spiritual center, your center that you're seeking, because everything you're seeking, resides within you. And these tools are just helping you to remove those layers so that you can access that more and more clearly. And just remember, you're not alone in your journey. We're all here to help each other home sending you all So much love