You Will Get Through This with Terina Madonado

Terina had an unique experience leaving the church. Going from devout Mormon to reading the Gospel Topic Essay's and two weeks later crying in her bishops office knowing she was  being done.

Join me as I have a beautiful conversation with Terina, who is a life coach, as she shares some valuable tools that assisted her in her transition out of Mormonism.



Grab my latest book, Leaving Religion a Guide!
https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Religion-Those-Leave-Behind/dp/1952566487/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VJZLYGIDGFTI&keywords=leaving+religion+%26+those&qid=1654055556&sprefix=leaving+religion+%26+those%2Caps%2C180&sr=8-1

To follow Terina:

http://www.terinamaldonado.com

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 https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTdt726Xv/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/terina-maldonado-49129b201/

Grab her book, Fear to Freedom: Stories of Triumph After Leaving a High Control Religion https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08D89DNTY/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_3YH4KKX14D5WDRBMJAQ1

Let's stay in touch!

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:05

Hello, hello, hello, I'm excited to have another guest today, it's been a minute. And before we dive in you guys, my book is life, leaving religion a guide, find your spiritual center after leaving religion, this book is one that has been such a beautiful gift to create, because I have done some deeper healing as I was writing this book, especially when I was reading about sacred sexuality, and about shame. Some of those pieces that I was writing about, I got to do some deep healing within myself. So that was quite a gift. And that is now life 1333, if you've ever wanted to work with me, but can't quite afford it, this is a really beautiful way to do your own work on your own at your own pace. And using tools that I offer. It's a simple book. And so far, the comments and the feedback that I've gotten with the book are just powerful. This is a book to help you know that you're not alone in your journey, and that you can do this, you've got this. And let me help you through this book with moving moving through the places within you that are asking me to move through. So you can find this book on Amazon, I will provide the link down below or go on Amazon search, leaving religion and those we leave behind with my name and you will find it. And without further ado, let's dive into my next interview. Well, welcome to Rena, you ready? Ready, you're ready and ready and willing, I have another willing victim what I feel about I've kind of like put the podcasts on the side, like on the back burner for a minute. And it's been calling me and calling me. So it's like, Oh, I'm so glad I get to start interviewing again. Because I do love this. So thank you for joining me. You are welcome. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here with you. I'm curious, and you didn't know I was gonna ask you this question. I'm curious what was what was the poll to like, you know what, I really want to share my story on your podcast. Why? What was that for you? Well, one of the reasons is just I believe, in general that sharing our stories is one of the biggest ways we can get rid of the shame that surrounds them. And so I'm all about like, Let's get together, let's share our stories. Let's get wrong real. And also I do life coaching. And one of the things I do is help empower people to be able to share their stories to get comfortable with the physical sensations that arise with that to really be able to, you know, have boundaries around themselves and where they are. So I love that yay, well, cool, we're gonna, we're gonna totally get into that. I'm glad you brought up shame, because shame is one of the things that's just fascinating that we carry. So rampant in our society, especially within religion and shame blocks us from really accessing our God, our, our God, given rights and gifts and so many different pieces. So I'm glad you brought up that shame piece because it's huge. It really is. It's a big block for many people and being able to overcome so many things in life. Right? Yeah. Yeah, if we can just get rid of the shame. We'd be like, Oh, this is so much easier that we can move through us right here in our own heads that that was a bad decision. Not I'm a bad person. Right, right. You're like, oh, maybe I don't want to choose that again. And this is what it taught me and I'm okay with that. Let's move forward. Yes, that's our humanity and then learn from it. Yeah. So tell me what is your story? Were you born and raised in and were you what religion were you? So I was born and raised in the LDS church. of the Mormon generation. I did the I'm a Mormon campaign. Yes. And so on my dad's side of the family, we go way back to pioneers crossing the plains. I've had stories told of my ancestors in general conference. My mom was a convert. So I had kind of both aspects of that from a cool family. Yeah. So you were born and raised in that and in Utah or Arizona? So you're in Arizona now? Yeah. In Arizona. Oh, wearing Arizona, like Gilbert, or? No. So I was raised in Prescott, which it's grown quite a bit, but at the time, it was a pretty small town. And so when it came to most things, and definitely including church, like the progressiveness was definitely delayed and a little slower. Oh, that's cool. So did you have a lot of growing up? Did you have a lot of friends that were Mormon? What was that like for you growing up? Pretty much all of my friends were within my ward. Because that's where our social circle lied, or was was just within our ward. Yeah. So how was did you enjoy being Mormon as a youth as a kid? Yeah, I would. I would say as a kid, I didn't know any difference. And so it was. It was good. I enjoyed primary, I enjoyed Young Women's. I grew up with a dad who has mental disorders. He's been diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder and bipolar. And so there was quite a bit of abuse that happened in our home. And so young women activities and church community, that was my safe space. And that was a refuge away from the chaotic. Not so safe home. Hmm, yeah. So that had to be a gift for you back then. Well, that's beautiful that you had, and that would be challenging to have a father with those issues. I guess. I don't like to label. But yeah, that would be challenging, for sure. Very much. So. Do you have a relationship with him now? I don't. And it's been many years. And it was a hard decision to come to, I think there's a little bit of a misconception when people choose to end a relationship with a family member that it's just this willy nilly, like, well, they may be mad, and so I'm not going to talk to them anymore. When really what it was was years of trying to have a healthy relationship years of trying to have healthy boundaries that were not respected. And yeah. So then the boundary became, we're not, we're not in contact anymore, ya know, and it's the same thing within the Mormon Church, right? A lot of people when you step out of it think it's just like this. Oh, okay. I'm done. You're like, oh, no, this took a while for me to get here. Yes, and no. So I think my story, it's not completely unique. I know other people who've had very similar experiences, but it was a matter of weeks for me, like two weeks from being 100% all in serving in the Relief Society presidency, like attending the temple every other week, like that kind of Mormon to like, sobbing in my Bishop's office, because I found the gospel topic essays and it all just crumbled and fell apart. And so within two weeks, it was all into, I can't Nope, this is all a lie. We can't do this anymore. Yeah. Was your were you married at the time? Yes, I was married then married now. So I'm, I'm really grateful for the way our journey out when it's because I know that it's really caused division amongst so many marriages and families. And I feel really thankful that I was really upfront from the get go, once I started finding information that was unsettling. And I shared that with him right away. And then we kind of went on the journey together, just exploring, basically the foundations of Mormonism and the truth of where it all stems from. Will you talk a little bit more about that? What like, how did you come to find these? I don't know that. I've actually heard of him. What did you call them the gospel? What did you say that they were the gospel topic essays? I've not heard of these. Isn't that interesting? You think I've heard all of the things by now, but I haven't heard of that. Well, let me enlighten you. Yeah, it actually started. It started with a book called The saints, which, since there's so much information available, the CES Letter, all these things the church is having to kind of combat that with the truth, but in whitewashed, Faith promoting ways. And so the book, the saints had quite a bit of stuff that I had never heard before. But I faithfully thought, well, there's got to be answers that explain it all. And it will make sense and I had remembered hearing about the gospel topic essays. And I went to those which did explain things in a little bit more depth, but it didn't provide answers that made things feel good and okay. But they're basically just essays that the church has put together to provide information. You know, about Joseph Smith's multiple first visions, the stone and a hat, blacks and the priesthood. Just different things that have been very difficult for people when they find them out. And they try and present it in a pretty little package to make it look okay. Mm hmm. And so it was the church that had created these so you were curious, diving in and yes, they are on lds.org right there. You can even read them in your your Oh, shoot, what's it's called? It's been a while now, like your gospel Library app where you can read your scriptures there. Yeah. Oh, Oh, that's interesting. So as you started diving into these, and your husband did the same, what was it that just was like, this isn't? I can't do this anymore. What was that for you? Well, it's hard to pinpoint one thing specifically when you find so much information in such a short period of time. But I, I will say, I think the biggest thing for me was really how polygamy worked. And seeing that it just was red flag after red flag of behavior of a sexual predator. And then I got to the story of oh, shoot, I forgot her name, the 14 year old. There was a few, I know. But it was just, it was nothing but sexually predatory behavior. And I was just like, God would not use a sexual predator. A prophet would not be a sexual predator. This is not. No, like, I can't support this. Yeah. So I think being the sexually predatory themes of polygamy was just I couldn't accept that. Yeah. Yeah, that is hard. And especially when when some of the A lot of that's kind of swept under the rug of, well, that's just what was done back then. Or that's what God commanded, you know, Joseph Smith, or whoever to do to practice, you do have to question if that wasn't just a way for whoever that was that person that was that had those sexual desires or sexual appetites, to try and justify their behavior? And yeah, I, man, this, this is the one topic in the inside of the Mormon religion, that when I was called to do this podcast, and receive the download, I get to do this podcast, you know, without animosity without anger without, you know, and could I sit in that space and do that, because there's good in all things. And I had to sit with that for a little while. And you know, if you've heard my story, you know, that it took me I then had this other layer of the patriarchy piece that I had to go clear for me like I had to heal some pieces there. But this is the one topic with this sexual abuse that happens within the Mormon church that I'm very aware of that this kind of leads into a little bit and we don't have to dive into it. But this is one thing. That's, that's difficult. There's a lot of religious sects, SCC T 's, that practice sexual ascetic rituals, and I believe more than Mormon religion is one of those. And it is an interesting thing to dive into, and one that's hard to digest, and be okay with, and obviously, we're not okay with it, right? We're not in that anymore. Anyway, this just brings up that topic a little bit. So I guess I'm going there for a second. So I don't blame you. And I'm glad that you saw what you saw, because most people don't, or they want to justify it. Or I have a friend that like, you know, there's no proof that Joseph Smith actually had multiple wives. It didn't have there's no other children outside of Emma. And I'm like, I don't know enough to to say otherwise. But it is been in the Mormon church, it has been practiced, not just with Joseph Smith, there have been others. So, right. And if you, I don't accept that, and I don't agree with that. But if you wanted to then just move on to the next one. Brigham Young was a pretty awful person. He was a racist, and all sorts of lovely things. Yes. Yes. He was man. You know, he was a man that suppose he was called a god. It's like, okay. Yeah. All right, the God that I believe in would not support or endorse or enable that type of abuse. Yeah. Right. The the Mormon, White Melt version of God is really fascinating, right? What has your god shifted into since you've left? Has he changed? Or she changed? Yeah, they've changed. I don't. So you know, this journey from a highly structured, high demand religion, to exploring your own spirituality is a little bit scary, because you've been fed and had all the answers your entire life. And so then when you step out of that, you're like, where do I go? What do I believe? Is it all or nothing? There was a moment in my head where, you know, like, atheism popped in, and that was devastating to think about. It didn't really feel right. And I, you know, I had had experiences that made me think, oh, probably not, but I definitely You don't believe in an intervening God that's up there playing puppet master and helping you find your keys while allowing this child who's praying to be saved from childhood sexual abuse to remain in that environment, right? Like, that doesn't align with me either. And so I don't have all the answers. But I will say that I'm very comfortable with the unknown. I do feel that we're connected, I do feel there's something greater than us out there. But it's still a journey. And I love that I can say that my beliefs are fluid, like, no, maybe reincarnation feels good. And I kind of like the idea of that. But I'm not gonna sit here and say I believe in reincarnation? Because I don't know, there's no way for me to prove that. But that was that was kind of nice. Why not? I've had memories of past lives. So I believe very much in the fact that we have multiple lives. But it is that old saying, right? The older we get, or the more the more we learn, the more we understand, we don't know that yet saying, I wholeheartedly believe that anything, could we fix a and fix to something so strongly, it doesn't give space for other possibilities to come in? And in my experience, I am always learning something new every day. I'm like, hi, I haven't considered that. Maybe that's a possibility. You know, yes. Have you ever? Have you ever heard of the Christ letters? I don't think I've heard those actually. So this is a I think it was a channeled. I think, I don't know, a friend of mine sent it to me a while ago, and it's on YouTube. And it goes into talking about God and how interesting it is that we would believe that a god there would be a god that would do exactly what you're talking about, oh, well, this person all all give this, but this person I'm not, they're gonna have to go through this shit, because they're strong enough to handle that trial. Or over here, I'm going to create floods. And over here, I'm going to create a tsunami over here. Like that is not an unconditional God. And what you know, it's possible that collectively we as an organism, in a society, you know, in some say, in Alpine, Utah, where I live, there's just so much anger and hate and everybody's just angry, like, is it possible that that just that energy would then create an earthquake? The Earth would respond to that, like, is it possible, we're creating the wars, we're creating all these things that has nothing to do with God? And I'm like, You know what, I believe that a lot more than a god that's like, your good your bad. Earthquake, fire, tsunami, holy shit, you know, right. Yes. And so when people ask, oftentimes, I just say, My religion is love, and my God is love. And that is what I let guide my life. Yeah, I love that. So how was your transition out? You said, you went from like, two weeks being totally into two weeks later, crying in your bishops office, like, holy crap. I can't support this. What what did that look like for you? And how was it with your husband, your children? It was really hard. It was really hard to have your entire foundation just ripped away so, so quickly. And it brought up so many things of how am I going to make it through this, I remember there was one experience, it was like, right at that, that very beginning of our transition where we weren't going to church for the first time ever. And I didn't know what was going on with anything. And I just crying in the shower, just just crying. And I started to pray, I started to say to your heavenly Father, and I just started sobbing, because I'm like, I don't even know that there is a God that hears and answers prayers. Yeah. And it was like, how am I going to make it through this hardest thing that I've ever faced without all the tools that have gotten me through the hardest things that I've ever had. And then I just had this moment of a realization that if it's not true now, if a loving Heavenly Father doesn't exist now, then he didn't before when you made it through all of those other things. And that means that you have always had the strength within you to get through things. And that is still there, and you will get through this. And so that was a really powerful moment for me to kind of reclaim my own power. Oh, yeah. And to acknowledge that maybe I was given credit to have something that I didn't need to and really the strength to survive. All the things that I've survived was really within myself the whole time. So that was a really powerful moment for me. That is very powerful. What a beautiful awareness that you had pretty quick. That's, that's beautiful. Yeah. And so with my husband And like I said, we went on this journey together. And so it really brought us closer together, as you know, difficult things often do in relationships. And so that was really great. My two oldest children are on the autism spectrum, my oldest had already been baptized, and they're very into routine. And so it was difficult to have this huge life change. And we had tried going to, I thought, we've gone to church their whole lives, let's just keep going to church, let's explore some non denominational Christian churches around us. And it was honestly traumatic for me, I'd be sitting there and I would just start crying and not in I've been touched by the Spirit sort of way, but just just feeling so lost. So alone, like this doesn't resignate I don't feel comfortable here. And then I learned a little bit about religious trauma syndrome. And that made more sense. Do you want to speak to that for a minute? For those guests who haven't heard of that before? Yes, because it really was helpful for me to see information about what I was experiencing. So religious trauma syndrome, is basically you've been traumatized in the same way that you might be if you were in a really bad car accident, if you were sexually assaulted. If you were in a an abusive relationship, that same amount of trauma can come from losing your belief system, losing your community, all of those things can can create traumatic experience, feelings and experiences for you. And so when people think that you're just leaving, and it's so easy, and you're just not following the rules, right, there's a lot of unawareness into what really happens, because it can truly be a traumatic experience where you can have a difficulty with your day to day tasks, you can feel overwhelmed. For me, there was thoughts of, I wouldn't say suicidal ideation, but definitely thoughts of I just don't want to be here anymore, because this is so hard. Yeah. And, and that's a really sad and scary place to be. Because it's just so heavy and so hard. Man, wouldn't it just be nice to just not wake up in the morning? Because this is awful. It's too much. Yes. And so a lot of the same tools that I've used to overcome trauma, and traumatic experiences in my past, I was able to quickly pull into place once I was like, wait a minute, this isn't just hard. This is trauma that I'm experiencing again. And so I felt like I was kind of able to navigate it fairly quickly. And a little, and I don't want to say that it was easy, but a little bit more easily than some other people because I had knowledge of, of tools for navigating trauma already. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so great. So with your kids, so you stopped doing that you were going to different churches, I assumed you stopped because it was too much. Yes, we stopped and I said to my husband, let's just go on hikes on Sunday morning. And so we use Sundays as our family hike time, I would find a person that had a story that taught a value that I wanted to teach my kids and I share the story of this person, we talked about them and what they did that we liked, and how can we be like that in our lives? Have you ever had an experience where you've showed courage or kindness or integrity in that way, and that was really beautiful for a while, and then living in Arizona summer hit and it was too hot. And and we haven't really done that. But it's been really nice to see them have their own agency in beliefs. If they come to me with any sort of religious or spiritual questions. I don't tell them what to think anymore. I tell them, Well, some people think this or I feel like this, what do you think? Or, you know, you get to figure out for yourself what, what that means to you or what you want to believe. And my son who's going on 13 has said that he thinks that all religion is just a way for people to get money. There's just a little bit of truth to that. But I don't try and tell him. He needs to believe anything. I just say well, that's an interesting thought. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that you're doing that because I think that younger we can teach our kids to self reference and to turn internally for those troops and those answers the word doing them a huge service, and then they in turn, do a huge service to everyone else. I love that you're doing that. So how would as As you have transitioned out, how long has it been now? So it was three years at the beginning of this year. So we're Yeah. Over three years. Awesome. So what have you found? That has helped you with moving out? You said, you moved quickly? What were some of the things that were really useful to you as you are moving out? And is there I'll just ask that question first. What were some of the things that were helpful? Finding new community as quickly as possible? How did you find that? So I reached out to the people that I personally knew who had left the church, because we all know people who've left. And I got together and I went to lunch, and I cried to them, they just loved me and supported me. And I got connected with a local Facebook group for women in Arizona. And they had events and I went to events, and I met people that I'd never met before, and made those connections. And I quickly realized that some of the feelings within the post Mormon community, were not what I wanted to continue to align with. And I'm gonna say, anger is a valid and needed part of the process of leaving, like, I definitely was angry, and I was bitter about some things, but I didn't want to stay there. And so I tried to move through that as quickly as possible. And I still have things that will trigger me and make me angry if I learn them about things that are going on. But that's not where I want to stay. And so I also, we really reached out to our community, like our neighborhood where we physically live, and just said, Hey, we would love to get together and you know, have some people over for drinks? Or does anybody want to come to trivia at this restaurant, and we just made a very conscious effort to get to know the people within our physical community as well. And so as we found people at both in the post Mormon community who are happy to be thriving, like we have that connection, but that's not all we talk about, we just get together. And we're, we're just normal people. And as we've built community with people, who've never been more than it's been really helpful to have that support. So I would say, finding community as quickly as possible, wherever you can, is going to be huge. And like we kind of talked about at the beginning, like, don't be afraid to share your story, because I feel like, the more you can speak it, the more it helps you to heal from it. And so it's been my honor to sit with people who've been more recently out and just hold space for them as they're in that grief and that anger and to tell them, it gets better. I promise it gets better. Yes. And then I think another thing that's really been helpful is to try and start trusting yourself again. That was something that was huge for me, like, how could I have been so deceived? How could I have spent my whole life wrapped up in this? And as I thought about it, I was like, but Terina, you had those nudges, there were things that you knew, just weren't right, but you put it on a shelf, you ignored that you doubted your doubts, you trusted that everything would be explained in the next slide. So it's not that I was totally deceived, and I had no idea. I just followed what I had been told to do, but stopping mechanisms to stay active. And so acknowledging where I had been able to see that the truth and some things and just getting to learn how to hear my own intuition, to trust myself to make my own decisions. That really was was a big thing for me to help me as I kind of transitioned out. Yeah. How do you feel like because most people that have left, they they don't even know how to start doing that? Is there something that you would give as far as advice for somebody who's like, that's great, and I don't even know how to start doing that. So this ties into self care, which I think is really essential for our happiness. One thing that I try and do and I help my clients to do in my coaching is sit down every morning and ask yourself what is one thing you need today? And do it in the morning don't plan it out the night before because maybe the night before you're like, I'm gonna go exercise and that's gonna be self care for the day but then you wake up and you just feel called and old to just instead of going to the gym him in the morning, sit on the patio and enjoy your cup of coffee. Like, just trust yourself that you know what you need. And that's one way, it's as simple as just saying, What do I need today? Maybe you need to clean your room, maybe you need to binge a show, you will know and trust that. And then just like journaling can be really helpful. Like, ask yourself a question. And then just journal out your answer, just free flow stream of conscious writing. And sometimes you'll be like, where did that come from? And to realize, well, that maybe that where that came from is my own intuition. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Those are all really, really good, good tools. How is your husband? How's he navigated leaving any differently than you? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I will say that, even though initially, it brought us closer together as you completely deconstruct your whole belief and rebuild what you believe in, like, there's been some things we're we're not as aligned as we were before. And that's maybe caused a little bit of friction sometimes. But for him, it's, I feel like it's been a little bit easier. For me, it was like, my whole world just fell apart. I got figured out the whole world again. And for him, it was like, awesome. We don't have to follow and not in the way that some members talk about, but like, it's been a little bit easier. I'm like, Okay, well, we don't have to follow these rules anymore. So, yeah. Like, I feel like it's sent me on this deep spiritual journey. And he's just kind of content where he is. Well, that's good. I know. Men and women are so different with how they choose to navigate things. So that's why I was curious if it was different for him versus you. Yeah, I feel like it has been different because I've questioned everything about everything. And he's just like, oh, we'll kind of figure it out. It's okay. So is your family like your extended family? Are they still Mormon? Um, oh, yes. And no, um, my family. On my dad's side, they go back to pioneer stocks. So almost all of my extended family is still okay. Yeah, sorry. I know, you're so you're good. Tech, not technology sometimes is lovely. Right. You were saying? So on your dad's side of the family, Pioneer stocks, and most of them are still in, right. Yes. And then on my mom's side of the family, she's got like one sister, that's a member and then that's pretty much it. Yeah. So how has little How have they been with you guys leaving. Um, one of my husband's aunt. So it was shortly after we left, it was the first like, worldwide day. So my husband took a picture of a wine bottle and was like happy wine Day, everybody. Really messaged him that he sent her to the hospital with his bad decisions. And she's having heart problems now, because it's so awful. So that was one experience that we had. Oh, my goodness, you're like, well, that has nothing to do with me. So we're Oh, shoot. Right. Right. But we've definitely felt the covert shunning that happens within the church, we went to the first big family holiday last Thanksgiving, and nobody really talked to us. And so we felt that there's definitely a separation that has happened. Have you guys navigated that? Sometimes family is who you choose and not blood. And just realize that just feel that hurt, and feel that loss and feel that sorrow? Because there's a lot of that? And then and then let that go and lean into the love of people that are there for us. Yeah. You mentioned boundaries early on in the in our call, I would imagine that you have created some boundaries that are pretty strong within family dynamics. Yeah. So my mother in law shortly after we left, and to no fault of her own, it's what she's been taught to do was trying to send us articles and fight us to things and so I just, I believe that boundaries should be should be set with love. And so I always try and acknowledge where they're coming from, because I know her and I know she's a good person, and I know exactly where she's coming from because I've been there. Right? You know, like I understand And that you love us and you care for us. And you're just trying to share things from a space of love. I want you to understand that what it feels like is you not trusting us to make our own decisions. Also, I shared an article with her about what religious trauma was because I was kind of in the depths of that, and I shared, like, this kind of information is actually really triggering for me right now. And so I need for you to just not share these things with us and to respect us and where we are. And she hasn't sent me anything since she has invited me. Which is great. So yeah, oh, that's really good. Did she respond when you said that? Or did she just not respond? She just did not respond. Sometimes no response is the best response, right? Because you're like, I don't want to get into an argument over this. I don't want to get into a conversation. It's just, sometimes that's the best response, you're like, great. Right, and I had an uncle who I'm on Facebook, anytime I would share anything about my personal experience with leaving the church. So not like me attacking the church, not sharing other people bashing the church, like my own personal experience, he would get on and he wasn't necessarily like, aggressive, but it was always he's defending the church. And it was very invalidating of me and my experience and my opinions. And so I tried over and over, to tell him what it means to hold space for somebody, what it means to love somebody unconditionally, even if you don't agree with their beliefs, to try and help him. Like, this is how I need support. I understand you don't agree with me, that's totally fine. I respect you and your beliefs, but I need you to not come on here. And tell me that I shouldn't be saying these things. Yeah. And finally, he did it again, just a few months ago, and I thought, I've given him lots, lots of help to try and know how to support me, I've tried to establish boundaries, like this is not what I would like our interactions to be when I share this type of information. And so I just sent him a message. And I said, I love keeping in touch with you and what's going on with your family. But I feel like maybe being connected on Facebook is not the best thing for our relationships. So please reach out via email, you have my phone number, feel free to call or text anytime. But we're not going to be connected on Facebook anymore. I love you, I'll hopefully hear from you soon. Good, good for you. And now I don't have to worry about somebody, you know, being an invalidating passive aggressive. When I when I share about my personal experience. I know social media is such a tricky place because we put everything on display. So then we are opening up for any comments to be said. And then there are those places of you know, and you don't need to be in my circles on my social media, because that I know that me sharing this is helpful to me and helpful to others. And yeah, I love that. I love that you've done that. I think that that's beautiful. What, um, so you're a life coach? Yes, who do you mainly work with? I've seen quite a few different people from different backgrounds. I've definitely worked with people who are leaving their religion, or leaving abusive relationships, just who are ready to step into finding themselves and owning their lives. So that's been some of the clients that I've worked with, and that I've seen are people that are really just ready to start owning themselves and their lives, and step out of the box that they were told that they need to live in. So helping empower people to find their voices to learn how to set boundaries, to learn how to care for themselves, because a lot of times in high demand relationships, whether it's a religion or any other relationship, you don't put yourself first and constantly put others or an organization before your own needs. And so just learning to overcome that tendency and put yourself first and what that really feels like and how empowering that can be and how that can just have a domino effect that just can change how you how you look at life in general. So I just really love working with people who are ready to who are ready to take that step to really make those changes. Awesome. How? Go ahead, sorry. I was just gonna say regardless of where they're coming from, like whatever you're wanting to step out of, like, let's do it and I'll help you help you navigate that with a little bit of confidence and I Love for yourself. Oh, I love that. So they wanted to get in touch with you what's the best way to connect with you? Um, so I'm on all the social media channels. Okay, well, I'll make sure and put them on the show notes so that they can reach out if they're interested in working with you. Yeah, they can find me. You can connect with any of those through my website, which is just Terina maldonado.com. But I am also on Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok. So, all the places, that's awesome. So, one kind of just to wrap up, if you could give, say someone's listening, and they're really struggling right now, just in general with leaving, and they're in that place that you had talked about with, you know, it feels too much, and I just want to be done. What advice? Or what thoughts would you love to offer someone who's just really in the depths of losing and unraveling the constructs they've been in. Give yourself grace, like you are being so courageous, it may not feel like it, it might feel like you're just clawing your way through every single day. But even in just doing that, you're exhibiting great courage. So acknowledge that within yourself, and give yourself grace and just know that it does get better and it is worth it. And the fact that you are willing to let go of so much, and to explore what that means for you. And your life is huge. It is so big, and it is so brave. And it is so wonderful. Like you right now are on your hero's journey. You're just in the thick of it. So hold on, your hero's journey is going to be beautiful. Keep going. I love it. Oh, thank you. Was there anything you would love to? To add or to say before we end? This anything else? We've had a really great conversation. So Ha, okay, great, thanks. Well, beautiful. Well, I will make sure I tie I add your different ways that they anybody can get in touch with you if they're interested. And yeah, it's been great to connect with you, Trina. Yes, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been beautiful. I love these conversations. It's so fun. They're so fun. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for joining us today. I so loved the tools that Trina offered. And if you're curious in finding more about her, you can go follow her on her social media sites. I will post the links down below, or find her on our website. Terina mal Maldonado. And again, you can find that down below in the show links. Trina actually was also a co author of a book fear to freedom stories of triumph after leaving a high control religion. And I will provide that link down below as well. And don't forget to snag my book a leading religion a guide to finding yourself after religion and coming back to your spiritual center. This is a beautiful book, you can find it on Amazon. And in addition to that, if you're not if you're kind of further on in your journey, but you're wanting a little bit more tools, I have something that I would love to provide it for you if you head to my website, Amanda joy loveland.com forward slash leaving religion tools, you will find a series of guided meditations that assists you in, in releasing the old holdings to God to Jesus to the Godhead to ordinances and all the pieces that you have bound yourself with in religion, these guided meditations are really really powerful to releasing those places within. So you can head over there, go grab that bundle. It's like a mini course you'll take do one journey. Each time anyway, you'll see on my website, so head over there. And as always know that you're not alone. Remember that at any time you do have the power and the ability to call on your guides, to call on your angels to call on heaven in general to be there for you to assist you in taking your next step so that you are reminded you're not alone. And there's so many of us on the same path. There are communities and communities that are out there that are here to support you to provide support for each other. So reach out if you're struggling reach out to someone. You are not alone. You don't have to do this alone. We are all in this together. Sending you all so much love my friend.