Hugh Vail: Be Whole

Sitting down with Hugh Vail is always such a pleasure. I am hoping we will make this a more regular occurrence. 

Hugh is someone who knows scriptural text very well as he's made it part of his studies. As we dive into the scripture, "for god so loved the world he sent his only begotten son" and if there is a more accurate translation, we engage in a fascinating conversation about truths.

Hugh share's about a recent conversation with a client of his that leads to an interesting discussion about the lgtbq+ community and actual scriptural text around truth. "a man shall not lay with a boy" was not to say that same sex attraction was not okay, but that a man should not lay with a boy. Simple truths.

Is it possible that there are more accurate truths within scriptural text and reframes that could allow for you to deprogram out of religion?

Have you ever heard of the phrase plant sacrament? Hugh heard this one day and then had it synchronistically come up later in a conversation which led him to an experience with a plant sacrament that is beautiful.

Life is not a random series of events, but is working in your behalf. There is truth in all things, are you paying attention to what the truths are trying to share with you?

Join us for this insightful conversation!

LINKS:

Head to Hugh's website to learn about his upcoming events: https://www.mustangmedicineevents.com/


Follow Hugh on his social accounts:

TicTok @Cowboy_Jesus
IG @mustang_medicine_
FB @mustangmedicine1

Let's stay in touch!

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:02

Welcome, welcome, welcome. I am thrilled that you are here. And I'm excited to share another episode with Hugh Vale, who, I had some questions as far as some things that I was receiving. And he was one of the more knowledgeable people that I know when it comes to scriptures. And so I wanted to have this conversation with him and really dissect what the real meaning is, as it was coming in for me. So I'm excited to share this episode with you. And just reminding you again, of that amazing experience that I am co creating with three other unbelievable women down in Springdale, Utah, September 22, through the 25th. And this is an in body experience, to really fully embody all that you are because this is part of this is why we're here to really own these pieces of us to understand more and more what we're capable of to learn our gifts to embody those gifts to embody all those parts of us that we think we should hide and shame. And instead, the question is, and naturally, this actually comes up in the podcast today with you that we are here to become more and more Christed and coming to our Christ and self, which means we get to embody all parts of us. So if this is ringing true to you go secure your spot, head over to my website, Amanda joy loveland.com, forward slash inbody. That's i n, d, O, d y. And again, that website is Amanda joy loveland.com inbody, forward slash inbody I Nbody. Now let's dive in. So Hugh, and I had pushed record, but we were chatting, and we just continued having a conversation. So there's really not an introduction here. So you are just going to join us as we just pick up having a natural conversation. So let's dive into this conversation with Hugh Vale. I was listening to maybe it was create the love Mark groves. It was somebody like that somebody really liked the vast majority of their thoughts. And he was talking about how difficult it is to put his stuff out on social media platforms. And he said, because there's things that will change. And I'll go back and he's like, how I made peace with that is, I feel like I'm just learning out loud. Yeah. And I feel like that's what my tiktoks is going to be is just, yeah, this is what I'm learning out loud. I don't think it's what Moses wrote on stone tablets. It's not what I'm writing on stone tablets, but it is. It is the it's the wrestle that I'm in right now. And these are the thoughts that I'm having about it. And this is what makes most sense to me. And I'll probably edit it in a couple of years and be like, Oh, silly to write and be like, This is what I was really trying to get to. Well, that. But I feel like any thought leader, any anybody that's constantly seeking, I know that I've heard from many, many people that they had that same thing like yeah, I believe this a year ago, but now I believe this today, but it's okay, that that's where I was a year ago, because it does show. It almost gives all of us permission just to be where we're at. At this time. Yeah, I think there's beauty in that. Totally. Yeah. Because we don't have to be perfect this idea of perfection. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's, that's Matthew 548. It's my most favorite ancient scripture to share. Because it says Be there for perfect. But yeah, it's not. It's not an accurate translation for today's English. I think it was an accurate translation in the 1600s. But in today's translation, a better more accurate interpretation of it is be therefore whole. And then bodied. Now we're gonna have that part. Yeah, that's what wholeness is, right? wholeness is like it's intact. It's all there. And, and if it's there, then I'm then I'm embodying it, right, where I'm trying to get to embodiment. And that's, a lot of people call me because I do you know, I do coaching calls, and mostly my coaching calls. I'm not a, I wouldn't say it's life coaching or anything. It's more like, what's the thing you're suffering with right now, and you're struggling to find peace about it. And so I just helped people like, change the story or look at it from a different perspective. And a lot of times, they're not at peace with what's manifesting in their life, and they're like, I'm doing the yoga, I'm doing the breath work. I'm, I'm doing my meditations. And I'm going Yeah, but what's manifesting is what you're embodying and what you're What you're doing yoga for your meditations for is what you want. But what you want is not what you've embodied. And so manifestation only happens from embodiment, not from desire. And they're like, oh, and so it's like, well, now, what is it that you really want? Let's go embody that and look at what do we need to change in the way that we think, act and believe, because then it'll hit the cellular level. And then you won't even think about going and getting it, it will just show up to you because that's the idea of manifestation. Right? But manifestation comes from embodiment, it's embodiment is everything. Yeah, because especially in my practice, right, NLP you with the subconscious mind, if you're not, if your outer world is constantly showing you this thing, it's a belief that you're holding internally. So shift that, reprogram that, and then start to your point. That's the embodiment. But that reminds me, I just had a conversation with a woman who was sharing about her life, it was someone that I just met, and she was like, I was doing all the things within my religion, I was praying I was doing, the family will meet, you know, all the things that we're told we will do. And if we do that, then we'll be blessed. And I feel like as you're sharing this, I'd be curious if the person you're talking to or people come from a Mormon background, because that's what we're so ingrained, or we were so ingrained that if you do these things, then you'll receive blessings. And it's like, well, that's not necessarily true, because Shit happens. And if you're holding that internal belief, or you're not embodying it to what you were saying, and integrating those pieces in it, you're not going to get what you're actually wanting. So it's interesting just to see the programming that continues playing out over and over again. Yeah, I would say it's anyone that's coming from an organized religion that teaches the checklist way of getting blessings. Yeah, like, I've got one guy that's a, he's a practicing Jew. I've got a lot of people, of course, are local to Utah. So the odds of being Latter Day Saints is really high. But then there's, there's also just general Western Christianity. And all of them share that same. If I do this, then I get that in that checklist. way of thinking and acting and believing is going to get me what I want. And that's meritocracy. It's all based on merits and embodiment, it's not based in merits embodiment, it's based in Well, the way I break embodiment down is emotions, body, so there's the systems in the body, like the endocrine system, the nervous system, the digestive system, so you've got emotions, and then your bodily system systems. And then your mind, that's meant is, is mind, which is your prefrontal cortex. It's how you tell the story. So if you can get your emotions and your thoughts, the story that you're telling, and your body to respond to all of that. That's, well, Joe Dispenza talks about that. That's how you get embodiment, that's how you manifest things is aligning the thoughts, the feelings and the emotions, all into that one particular aim. But that's really how you think, act and believe it just is who you are, you're not trying to think a new thought, you're not trying to act in a new way. You you've already got it at the cellular level. And, and that's embodiment. And we're embodying our programs, is the chance that that's the challenge. So it's like, well, that's why things are repeating, or that's why things are showing up the way that they're showing up. So let's look at the program. I got a client that called me this morning, our appointments, not for another 10 days, and she called me and she's, I give everyone like an emergency call, if they've got something I'm struggling with. So she she, you know, dialed the bat line this morning and was like, she's like, Okay, this is my emergency call. And I'm like, okay, and it was beautiful what she said, she said, I went down to tucan theater, and I watched Joseph in the coat of many colors. And she said, I felt like there was some LGBT innuendos that were in there. And she said, some of my best friends are, like, same same sex attraction. So but I found that I was getting upset at the innuendos that were in there for the LGBT community. And she goes, then I was getting upset at myself for being upset that that and I felt like they were sneaking it in and they shouldn't have been sneaking it in and she He's just like, I don't have any peace about this whole thing. And I love the LGBT community, I just need to, this is something that showed up I need to make peace with. And so it's like, oh, well, all we got to do is look at the programming. Right? All that's showing up is old programming, that new programming, new thoughts, new ways of acting and believing haven't quite fully been embodied, even though she's embodying those new ways in love and acceptance more and more every day. But that old programming is showing up and causing inner conflict with her and it's like, okay, well, let's, let's deprogram what was there, and that's, we don't get to dive into that hole. But that's, that's actually a pretty easy thing. For Christians, or not even Christians, it could be just any organized religion that says, gays are not loved. That's, that's Paul's teachings. And, and the word for homosexuality in the New Testament, the Greek version is not even a Greek word, he took two words. And he combined them into his own word, which is called a neologism. Neo meaning new logos, meaning a word. And we should do that I'm a huge fan of of creating new words, but he created a new word. And so it's really hard to translate. What is he actually saying? Because it's his own word, right. But when you piece it together, what it's saying is like an older man should not have sex with a young under aged boy. And this only shows up twice. This word only shows up twice in all of the scriptures. And it's not saying same sex consenting, adult attraction. It's saying same sex should not sleep with young children. And I think all of us, I think, I think that's appropriate. I think we should not do that. Oh, that's that's actually a problem in Iran and Pakistan, and that my husband was talking to me about this when he was deployed in the military, it was really challenging to see all these men that would have their little boy prostitutes. Like that is a legit issue that still goes on today. Totally. So is it possible that that was what was alive back then? And that's what he was speaking to was a grown man is not specially with a child period. Yep. And he was speaking to that, because it did exist. And it was very prominent as well, like, their culture challenges are no different than what we're seeing today. They were experiencing back then. Yeah, yeah. And so she's like, Oh, well, I had been taught or, you know, to believe that, that God just hates gays. And like, well, of course, you were taught that and you're a good students. So that all make sense. But, but let's just go back to class for five minutes. Look at what the the details are behind this, and then just realize that that interpretation got that drifted, that that drifted pretty far off course. And she's like, Oh, this is amazing. So, you know, you just provide some of those details. And it's pretty easy to deprogram things that programs that separate and divide us are definitely programs that need to be undone. Well, and I love that you touched on this piece of the things that we we were taught because in my right now, in my experience, and things that continue to show up for me, is it likely that even Joseph Smith, the way that we were taught of who he was, is inaccurate, then I believe that's very true. Same thing with Jesus, and some of these different, different parts. And we can look at the motivation for why that's the case. And we can dive into that. But I love it when we and when we have clients that come in that are willing to ask the question, and are willing to actually be curious as to why this is showing up because that curiosity piece, and the question is, is, is what will continue assisting us in growing and so the programs and I just spoke to this before we started hitting record, I actually am getting to a point in my life where I love seeing. It's so fascinating, the programs that we're holding on to like, wow, you know, tithing popped up for me the other day of the idea of giving part of who I am and all the things that to others, without any kind of reciprocation really or thinking I'll be blessed with showing up in the weirdest place for me, or even the idea of like, you know what I was telling a friend of mine, I'm kind of done like, I want to go find my community and like go build a commune you and I have talked about this. Go build our own like society somewhere and she's like, other pioneers did that. And I'm like, Holy shit, I didn't even think about that. And they went and built their own community because what? And so it was just really interesting some of those pieces that come into that there's a lot of beauty in some of them. But when we get to ask that question and be curious, and this is what kind of led to me reaching out to you, and now we're recording is, is I've been receiving, I'm channeling a new book. And it's, it's interesting the information that's coming in. And I didn't share this part with you. But after I channeled some information, I kept hearing the Scripture over and over and over again, For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son. I'm like, Alright, spirit, I hear you why, why you can? Why are you continuing to share this with me, is like, I know that, that there's some translations in here that are not 100% accurate. And so that's where I'm like, I need to reach out to you, because you are just, you're just amazing when it comes to this. And then thank you for saying yes to actually recording this so that we can, you know, these are fun. And maybe we will do do more thoughts with you, as far as you know, having you on more and more. But I would love to get your thoughts on on that scripture, as far as what you know, with the translations. And if it was, what the more correct translation is of that scripture. Yeah, so it's a pretty straightforward scripture. In terms of the translation. There's one thing that is really interesting, that I think, lends it what I'm always trying to do, and it doesn't always work. And I'm not saying that it should work does is just what I'm always trying to do, is that these ancient stories have survived, I think they've survived for good reason. I think they've survived predominantly because of organized religions. And I think that organized religions have a place within society and that we should not get rid of them, I think we should just place them this is what I've done is this is how I've made peace with it. I think the religions where I'm very appreciative of their existence, is that they are the keepers of the records. And for me, we don't have these records. And I think they're very important to have if if we don't have the religions. Now, where the religions get a little wonky for me is how they interpret those ancient stories. So thankfully, we can go back to the way that they were originally written. And this, this gets challenging for some people, it's, for some reason, it's not challenging to me, I actually really love it. And that is looking at who wrote the original writings. So the Scripture we're referring to, is in the book of John, John 316. Very, very popular scripture that's that's used in, in Christian like Christianity all over. What the Scripture is implying is that there's a heavenly Father who sent His most favored son, because his other children are not that great. And he's got to, he's got to sacrifice his most favored one. So that the other ones that aren't as great can now be enough. And, and that I'll get that whole idea gets summarized into, you know, what's known as the atonement. Well, here's what's interesting. The four gospels, John, being one of the four Gospels, was not written by John, it was anonymously written. We don't know who wrote it. We don't know how John's name got associated with it. And John, and the other gospels, he's kind of an outlier. So when you plug in the gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John into a computer system, and you say, how much is this overlaps? Like, how many stories is Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, all sharing that are the same story and some of the some of the Gospels, there's a really high I believe it was the book of Mark, see the marker, Matthew, there's only 7% difference. So so that writer is only writing 7% of what was written is unique. John, on the other hand, he only shows up 10% of the time 10% of what's written in John It shows up in other in other gospels 90%, of what John writes doesn't show up anywhere else. Which is really, which is really interesting. Because if Jesus is telling everyone, all the things well, and these are the things that are most important to John, it's interesting that those things don't show up in other gospels or in other letters from Paul. So, you know, a lot of people, we don't really think about that we don't see that data into a plug it into a computer. One of the things that John is saying is in 316, is, it's like supporting this idea of an atonement. And when you break it down, what what's being said, is pretty straightforward in the Greek except for the word, eternal life. So at the very end, it says, you know, it says, And whoever shall believe on Him, meaning Jesus shall have eternal life. But eternal life can, that word can actually be translated into, for whoever believes on him will develop the character, that will be long sustaining in his life. That all of a sudden implies that when we step into our Christ consciousness, then, and we follow the, I think Jesus is the poster child for Christ consciousness. And what that means is that Christ is not Jesus's last name. Right? If you wanted to say this person is anointed, and you spoke Greek, you would say this person is a Christ. And if you didn't speak Greek, but you wanted to say, This person is anointed, and you spoke Hebrew, you would say this person is a Messiah. And they're saying the exact same thing system two different two different languages. And so I think Christ is the person who are sorry, I think Jesus is the person who embodies what it means to be a Christ. And I think that's available to every human. I think, anything that Jesus said about himself is true about every person on the planet, if they want it to be true for them, right? I agree. Yeah. And so whenever we see things that are being said about Jesus, or said from Jesus, that does not apply to every other person. It's not true for every other person, I struggle with that. And that's where I started thinking, well, there's probably another way of looking at what's trying to be said, like, I have a really close friend. And we've been friends since seventh grade. So I'll call him and I'll say, I'm working on a new thought. Try to hear what I'm trying to say not what I'm actually going to say. Right? Because I don't have the words yet to articulate or define it. And I think sometimes that's true in the Scriptures. And these ancient stories, so I think, what's what's happening when you break it down, here's another thing, sometimes the word God, so God so loved the world, that word can be Elohim, which means like, your actual heavenly parents, or that word, can be like, just a general like a deity. Like it's just, it's just, it's God. Not meaning not my heavenly Father, it's just a God. And so that's an that's an interesting thing. It's, it's almost like it could it could be translated, or maybe ought to be interpreted as the gods have created a plan. And we're all part of that plan. So therefore, and we're also God's, this is Psalms Chapter. Psalms 82. Verse six, is something that Jesus quoted to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. And the scribes who are calling him bless. Like he was a blasphemer. Right. And if you had laws that if you blaspheming, God, you could get killed for that. So Jesus is saying, I'm a god. And they're like, what? So clearly, it's, it's, it's like he's a normal person. He's just stepping into his inner Christ. And when you step into your inner Christ, you have to start remembering and becoming aware of certain truths. And so Jesus is like, why is this so difficult for you guys? This isn't the book of Matthew. He says, Why is this so difficult for you? Is it not in the scriptures that you believe in, you read in, and then he quote, Psalms 82, verse six, which says, Ye are all gods. And so he's just saying, look, it's, it's in the ancient writings from, from that you guys are actually reading and that you believe in that it's saying, You are gods, too. And so he's just saying, I'm just stepping into my inner Christ, and therefore I'm remembering who I really am I, and what this whole human experience is about. And, and so maybe the translation is that, that the gods loved, loved us all so much, that anyone could be sent down and could step into their inner Christ and become the great example of what's available for all of us. And if you'll follow that path, then you will obtain the character that will live on with you throughout your life, and you won't perish. And it's like, well, that, to me makes a lot more sense. Kind of deep, and you kind of got to dive into a lot of, you know, a lot of context around it. So I love all that. For me, it's popping some of the things that I was shown and I was seeing which I'm like, Oh, I'm hesitant to share this. So I might not but the words that stuck out to me were the only begotten, begotten and son, su n or S O n, because yeah, the the idea that we know we radiate energy, we know we have a unique signature that has a frequency and an energetic blueprint to it. And through a podcast that you actually shared with me here that was talking about the Essenes, who I believe Jesus was in a scene, talked about how that energy comes down and from our hands and as reflected to fuel the sun. And it's interesting, then when you start diving into that, a little bit of that thought, that Here is someone who, let's say, let's say that, yeah, maybe we created this plan as far as this earth and what we were wanting to choose to experience but we got so consumed in consumption of everything that is outside of us to fuel us that we missed the point of everything starts within and then radiates out. And because we were so addicted and asleep to the consumption that then here, you know, I'm going to send down this being to amplify, to learn how to become Christed to amplify this son energy, to raise his frequency to be able to then connect actually to other frequencies and start to alchemize and then move through his initiations if you will, and to becoming more and more light to ultimately have a light body to have resurrection and and and perform those pieces to then show us this can you do and then some what's I don't know what Scripture that is you you're able to do you know what Scripture that is? Yeah, like greater miracles you have seen me do and you'll you'll do those greater? Yeah, yeah. I don't remember the exact chapter and verse. I'll find it but I think of that often. And it is fascinating like to what you're what you're quoting with him, Jesus quoting Psalms, use, you know, in the scriptures, it says, You are God. So why is it that you're now chastising me for saying that I am a God? It is in the Scriptures? And it's the same thing with that one? How is it that we have forgotten that Jesus said this can you do and then some, it wasn't here to be a martyr of the world? And you asked me that question via text and you're talking about this? Do I believe that Jesus died for our sins? No, I do not. And this dives into an interesting topic that if you're open, I'd love to chat about. Yeah. Well, and I would love to chat about that. And it reminded me I was in. In 2018, I was in an Ayahuasca ceremony. And my intention of going into the ceremony was in you have to understand going into Iowa Vaska. I had never done any drugs ever in my life, really, or anything. So I had a friend who is a brilliant quantum physicist, and I had been fasting that's a that's a method of trying to embody get so clear on my intention, and then embody a new way of thinking, acting, believing that I was fasting pretty consistently to understand how I could have such clear Already on on great spiritual things as what my friend had. And I went up to go went up north to go pick up this massive load of hay. And I've got like 150 bales of hay on this big flatbed trailer, and I'm driving 65 on i 15. And all of a sudden, it just dawns on me, out of nowhere, I heard this feeling that said, he did a plant sacrament. And I'd never heard the word plant sacrament like the term put together like that. The next morning, where we happen to be at a breakfast with a couple of people and the gal that we were out of breakfast with, she asked him, she says, How do you dislike just flows off of your like off of you and you're so brilliant. How did you get to learn all this stuff? And he said, and you have to understand, I had known him for like almost a year at this point. And he said, Oh, eight years ago, I did a plant sacrament. So for one year, I had never heard him talk about anything. I just thought he was a smart, brilliant guy. And all of a sudden at this breakfast happens to be within 12 hours of me getting this, this clarity while I'm on the freeway. So we had carpooled to this meeting, the breakfast is over, we jumped in his car, and I like can't even put the seatbelt on before I'm like, What the hell is a plant sacrament. And he explains it to me and he says, you know, it's it's take these entheogens from a shaman and do it as if it's a religious ritual sacrament for what your intention is. And, and that's how I've always participated in ceremonies, I treat it as a sacrament. And, and so anyways, he's, he's like, that's super cool that you got that this leads me to going and doing ayahuasca, I had never done any I didn't even know what I Alaska was. Two days later, a friend of mine calls me up and he says, Hey, I'm playing music in this ceremony, I feel really cold to share you we have one spot open. I took the spot. It happened to be for the plant sacrament. Ayahuasca and I went into it not knowing what the heck was, you know, I knew was like three months out from from that phone call. While I'm in the ceremony. My intention is and I take this cup of Ayahuasca as if the sacraments being passed to meet that's. And I had specifically spoken to the shaman who was facilitating it. And I said this would mean a lot to me, would you like symbolically do it? Like Give me it in this way. So she's like, passes me this sacrament, after we've prayed over it. And my intention was to know who I am. Yeah, I sit down. In that we call them little, they call them a nest, right. So you got your little like yoga mat and your your well being in your cute bucket. And then my two buckets, I did hurt. I did it three times per violently each time. But you know, it's only like, a couple of minutes that you do that. And then the rest is was amazing for me. I'm sitting there the medicine hits me. And and I don't know any of these sensations I have no, I have nothing to contextualize this with. So I'm not really panicking. I'm just kind of like, I don't know what's happened. And I look across the room, and the whole room is lit with natural light. So there's candles everywhere. And there's no there's no other type of light other than just light from a flame. And the flame says to me from across the room, just like one person talking to another person face to face. It's like beauty in the beast where the candlestick toxin is alive. And the flame is talking to me not the wax, you know, not the candle holder, but the flame itself. And it says to me, You are the light of the world. And it was so true to me that I had to think for a little bit about what the shaman had said to me as you you may learn things that feel so true, that that you just feel like everything is complete. Ask questions, always ask more questions, if something shows up and it feels really scary. Ask questions. And the thing I experienced was that they were so profound and powerful. It was hard to ask questions. So I sat with it for a few minutes. And then I said oh I've got to ask questions about this because it just felt so true. Why would I even asking felt like doubting and and And there was just nothing to doubt. And so I said, I thought Jesus was the light of the world. And the flame says back to me, He is the light of the world. So I sat with that for a second, it was also true. So I sat with that. And so then I thought, well, what's the best question I could come up with? And the best question I could come up with under the medicine in pure love and intention, it didn't feel egotistical at all, I said, so am i Jesus. And the flames that back in like, giggled and laughed, like, like little cute cue, like, they do that sometimes they laugh at us. It's like, what? Oh, this isn't fun. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, a little five year old, like, little five year old who was like asking the question, why my Jesus? And the flame laughed and said, No, you're huge. And Jesus says, Jesus, and I said, But if he's the light of the world, and I'm the light of the world, and then a beam of light shot, across the room, to my heart, and a beam of light shot up through the ceiling, and it felt like it was going to Jesus. And then a beam of light shot to 12 other people that were in the room, I was the 13th person in the room, and it shot to all 12 people. And it said, everyone is the light of the world. And had I not ask those questions I might have let my ego run with it. You know, when I came out of the medicine a few weeks later, or something like that. And I said, if everyone's the light of the world, like what more can I understand about this, and there's that scripture in Matthew that says, A candlestick that's lit and put up on a hill cannot be hid under a bush. The Scripture right before it the candle flame quotes. And it's Jesus. And he's quoting Jesus. And, and what Jesus says is, he says, You are the light of the world. And a candle flame that's lit up on a hill can't be hidden. So he's like saying, don't like You're the light of the world. So don't hide your light. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I realized, Oh, I had this program that somehow got in that wasn't fully accurate, that only Jesus is the light of the world. And, and I don't think it's true. Like, I'm fully convinced now that that Jesus was right, that I am the light of the world. We are the light of the world, everyone listening to this as the light of the world. And the question is, do you want to step into that light? And stepping into the light, I think is stepping into your, your Inner Inner Christ. Oh, yeah. That's a beautiful story. I'm so glad you shared that. One. This brings up a really interesting piece, because oftentimes, when people step out of religion, it becomes a little bit especially here in Utah, it is trendy, to step into circles that are doing plant medicine. And I love that you brought up that it was a plant sacrament. Because I remember listening to a Joe Rogan podcast with Brian, I'm cannot say his last name, but I put I will put this in the show notes. There are mirror Marine, something like that. Okay, I know who you're talking about. And he wrote the book The road to you lysis. And for someone who's never done any kind of plant ceremonies, he was so caught, it's really fascinating. I was really called to diving into how plant ceremonies and all this actually started. And he finds evidence that shows that Aragon which is in barley, which I think is actually an LSD, if I remember correctly, was in the chalices back in Jesus's time. And it was very common to be used in different sacraments, if you will, or different worship services, and that in you lysis people would prepare their entire lives to go die before they died. Yeah. And so when you when you do hold, there's no question in my mind that Joseph Smith was on plant medicine several times in his prophetic things and experiences that he had. But I believe that, you know, these were gifts to us in this earth of how to awaken more and more of our Christ at our gods selves. And when it's done in sacrament, when it's done with that honoring that intention and that almost surrender to what is possible. And I love that that shaman said to ask questions. And it gets to be a really beautiful experience, but it's coming back to the self. And I because I find often that in those ceremonies that the people that are facilitating know or don't always hold that space, that container. And I guess so this is my little plug that if you feel called to do a planet ceremony be really intense. be really mindful with what your intention is and who you're stepping into that space with. If they're pointing you back to you all the time. That's a good a good sign if they're the ones that are telling you what What you should believe and what you should think, go find someone else totally. Because all they're trying to be is propped up on a pedestal, which is the it's the foundation of what makes organized religion, I think drift is that they, they don't teach you that the kingdom of God is inside of you. They don't they, they don't highlight the message that you are the light of the world. They don't teach you the inner Christ, they teach you that someone is outside of you, that is going to make you good enough on the inside. And so if you go to if you follow that trend, I guess it's like ghosts, start doing these plants ceremonies, it's really easy to get these messages. And if you don't dive in and ask, then you don't get the full clear answer. And then you walk away from it, just like I could have walked away from it thinking like, oh my gosh, like my ego could have absolutely grabbed that and been like shoe is the light of the world. And, and while that would have been true, what I'm really saying would have been absolutely false. Right? What I would have really been saying is, I'm more light than you are. And, and that's not true. That's just not true. I don't think that's true for anyone. So therefore, I don't think it's true for Jesus, I either I don't think Jesus was was any more light. And that's not to take away his role of good for him for stepping up. And like really embodying the inner Christ and showing us what's possible. I do think that's what happened. Yeah, I would agree. And he had a community that fully assisted him in, like, one of my favorite books is Anna, grandmother of Jesus. And that book feels very clean and very true with how she channeled it, at least to me. Like one, one of my favorite pieces is when they take him to, I think it's the Great Pyramid, and they put him in that sarcophagus. And he, it's another form of death, and that he goes through and they are all seated at different positions within the pyramid doing intonations, and all those intonations would go into the sarcophagus. And I believe that Jesus was going through the different layers and levels of, of deaths, so to speak, that we get to go to, to die into the program to dying to the ego to dying to the self, you know, forever ago, you sent me that meme or that thing that was something about the avatar, you know, you get to play this avatars, Amanda, but that's not my you know, you remember that? Yeah. And I, I can't tell you how many clients that I've worked with, and even own personal experiences that I've had, there's so many of us that can go in and have remembering, as if we were Jesus or Mary Magdalene. And I was I was watching this Gaia show the other day. And the speaker said to the audience, how many of you who have had memories of lifetimes being Jesus, and I can't tell you how many people raise their hands, or Mary Magdalene raise their hands. So I love that you spoke to this, if you didn't continue to ask the questions, you would have walked away thinking, I'm the embodiment. I'm the resurrected, you know, whatever it is, I am the Christ consciousness. And it's like, yes. And so is everyone else. And so is everyone else. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Which, which is I think that's the great message of oneness. Yeah, I would agree. And that's why when Jesus did it, then he showed us what was possible. And that's the case with anything in this life. Somebody goes and breaks a world world record for the fastest runner. And all of a sudden, five other people can do it, where nobody could before. Right? It's like you start breaking these barriers, these thresholds, and then it just goes through. And that information is now planted into the earth because we are all connected. Yeah. And that this is possible. Yeah. So you mentioned something earlier is really interesting. It's something I've been working on for about three years now. And what I'm really trying to get clear on is what what is the atonement? Right. And you, you and I both share the same belief. And I got this belief a few years ago, and it wasn't a belief that was so against my, my programming, like, like the script that was running my programs that Jesus died for me. And it just came to me so clear, from my inner knowing, I think what what would be easily defined as like the Holy Ghost or spiritual prompting, I just kept getting really clear. fear that Jesus didn't die for my sins. And that about, like, caused me to glitch because I was really, really bought in on this and and I think being bought in on it served me in the time that it served me. So I don't think people need to rush to believe something different, I think I think they'll just come to that that knowledge eventually or maybe they don't. And that still, I guess works for them and is what they want to do but but you have to get into. First off the word atonement only shows up one time in the entire New Testament. I didn't know that. And it's written by Paul. And so then we got to understand a little bit about Paul. And if you dive into most theologians believe that there are pretty strong contradictions between Paul's teachings and Jesus's teachings. And I think that's a very normal thing. I don't think I think it probably should be that way. Because Paul never met Jesus. Paul never worked with Jesus. And so Paul claims his authority from the vision that he had about Jesus when he's on the road to Damascus. And he then is proclaimed, and I'll give you an example. Paul says from from that time that he's told to go share these things that Jesus was sharing to the Gentiles. And Jesus's teachings was to share them to the house of Israel, not the Gentiles. And so it's really interesting that those, those two narratives Don't, don't align. And, and so we don't have Christianity. If How would you say that? Christianity exists because of Paul's teachings, not Jesus's teachings, because Jesus was put up on a cross and forever crucified. And I think, Paul, this is the world according to Hugh. I think Paul feels bad about Paul. I think Paul shaming, Paul, because Paul is a Jew, who is persecuting and murdering Jews who believe Jesus is embodying the inner Christ. He's so committed that this is not a thing. And that this guy is not the guy that if you believe in him, he's going to go beat you up when maybe kill you. And then one day, he's walking to Damascus. And as he's walking, you know, the story goes that Jesus, the resurrected Jesus shows up and is like, hey, stop doing that, like stop killing people. Yeah. I don't know how you don't wrestle with I don't know how Paul wrestles with his shame of how bad you must feel. Paul, then it's very clear, he goes out to other congregations, and they don't want to see him, they don't want to talk to him, because he's the guy is going to beat you up and possibly murder you. So he's like struggling now with this new message that no one gives a crap that he has. And I, again, this is just me, me projecting my own shame challenges and my own difficult things of not feeling enough on DePaul. I feel like that would be very, very difficult. And so I think that Paul needs a really good sales presentation to explain to the people like No, no, no, I'm different. And I've changed. And he's the one that comes up with this message that Jesus has died for you for your sins. Jesus doesn't ever say that. The, the apostles, the disciples who worked with Jesus never said that. And when you look at the current modern teachings of the Atonement, compared to all the other teachings that are that Christianity is teaching. They say that Jesus dying for you is the most important of all the principles and all the things to believe believe that one thing, right. But the only person that was really strongly promoting that and teaching that was Paul. So this is where we don't have. If we don't have Paul, we probably don't have Christianity. If we don't have Paul, we probably all still remain Jews. And just some of us believe that Jesus, Jesus came and embodied the inner Christ, and some of us are still like, now someone else is going to come to embody edit, edit edit Hey, you are I'm like dang it. We're right at a good point. And you froze. Yeah, it's all good. Um, you were just talking about how it cut off about we would still be Jews. And we would still be waiting for the embodiments. Yeah, so some of us would would believe that Jesus had embodied the the inner Christ, which would be known as the inner Messiah. And then other people would say, No, he didn't. And we're still waiting for that, that one to come and show up. Yeah. So Christianity, and all these, these narratives around Christianity that that many of us are struggling and wrestling with right now. Those come from Paul, not Jesus or the other disciples. So there's kind of two gospels that are being taught like Paul's Gospel and Jesus's gospel. And of course, there's, there's a lot of good overlap over that. But a lot of people think it's more united than what it actually is, like, we think it's more seamless and aligned than what it actually is. I had never heard that before. So that's really interesting. Where does the law of sacrament start then? Because, you know, in in Christianity and Mormonism, I mean, you're taking the sacrament and remembrance of the blood of the sun and the body of the sun. Yeah, and, you know, that's the last supper that shows up. Some of the Gospels mentioned the Last Supper, like John, John has 90% of his writings are very unique, separate from what the other gospels are saying, and John never mentions the Last Supper, or the sacrament, which maybe he's just was like, hey, the other guys have covered it. It's even though that's not how it actually worked. Like when you start really diving in, and again, this can be really upsetting to a lot of people that are, are just in the verge of wrestling with their Christian programs. The first, the oldest writings that we have come from Paul. And that happened approximately about 50 ad. So 50 years after his death, is where we start seeing some of the first writings of the New Testament. And they're coming from a guy who never actually met or worked with Jesus, one on one. Fast forward a few more decades, and then you start seeing the other gospels showing up. So what that means is that Matthew didn't write the book of Matthew, Mark didn't write the book of Mark, there's even debate that Paul didn't write the letters that are attributed to him. And that's, that's, it's, it's really interesting stuff. Because if you wrote a letter, and I wrote a letter, people could read those letters. And they could be like, This is not the same voice, right? Like, who keeps using F words. And this other letter that's over, over here, we don't know who wrote that one. But they never use any efforts. And they, they, they write as if they graduated Oxford, in the English Department. And Hugh writes as if he like, lives in a frickin barn. And, and so we can see these letters from Paul, and they have two different voices to it, even though they're subscribed. And so it's like, that's interesting. And so it's just getting into the historicity. And what you have is you have people that are just trying to share this message. And this is the best way to share it, because Instagram hasn't been invented yet. Right? And so it might get a little messy, and how that gets how that gets shared. But it becomes common enough to where people are like, Oh, that scroll that's written. Mark wrote that one. But we know that Mark didn't actually write it. We know John didn't write. So anyways, The Last Supper is where we get the sacrament. And this is where Jesus is, you know, he's just saying like, hey, take up this, this, this bread to remind you of the body and the inner Christ, right and take this wind or remind you of the blood. And I think I think that it's still has a lot of room for inner Christ interpretations. Why especially if it was on the eve before they knew what was going to happen, they knew what was Christ is walking into, and the next phases that he was going to be doing in what he was here to do. Yeah. Yeah. And so the question becomes like, Well, what was he there to do? Was he really there to die for my sins. And, you know, there's some gospels that are written out there that most theologians really appreciate the, the authenticity of it, the kind of the cleanliness of it, it hasn't been messed with as much as some of the others. That's the last Gospel of Thomas. It's the, the last Gospels of Peter, and the last writings of Mary Magdalene. And a lot of those writings actually, really, when you dive into inner Christ, those are really good gospels to go read, because it's easier to get the inner Christ Message. And, and Mary says, in all three versions of the gospels that we have from her in the three different languages, Mary says that her and John are talking to Jesus. And John asked this question to Jesus and says, what's the greatest sin in the world? And Jesus replies back to John and Mary, and he says, There is no such thing as sin. And so if that's true, then why would Jesus die for something he didn't believe in? So then you have to say, well, what would sin be? And my interpretation of sin is anything that teaches that you are less than and not enough. So anything that promotes or promulgates personal shame, is sin. And that's, that's because I think that at the core misses the mark of your entire human experience. Yeah. I also take that definition. And I derive the that interpretation from Matthew chapter five, verse 48, which is Jesus at the Sermon on the Mount. And he's gone through the Beatitudes, and then he's saying, Okay, now that your understanding kind of like, what this, what the results of embodying your inner Christ looks like, and how that's going to show up in your life. Now, I'm going to teach you some more things. But before I can teach you more things, I gotta teach you this one critical thing, be whole, even as your heavenly parents are whole. And so I think from there, what he's really saying is, there's nothing that you can do, to take away from the fact that you are a God here, having a human experience. And you've done some things that maybe you are not pleased with, or you don't align with any more, and you're beating yourself up with them. And so the beating yourself up and the ability to not forgive yourself is what's keeping you from tapping into the full potential of your light, and who you really are. And so he's saying, don't do that, right, be own your wholeness, realize that you are complete, lacking no parts. That's the Greek version of what he says in Matthew 548. So that also implies that there's no such thing as a sin. If sin is defined as something that shames you for not being enough, yeah. Now doesn't mean there aren't transgressions and doesn't mean that there aren't things that really hurt people. And that reconciliation needs to be made. Those things obviously really do exist. And you do have to reconcile with yourself when you've been abandoning yourself and abusing yourself and betraying yourself and rejecting yourself. And when you do that, you will end up in relationships that will abandon you reject you abuse, you betray you. So that just becomes a mirror of how you treat yourself is how other people will then treat you Even Steven Covey talked about this. And, and so you've got to reconcile, and that's what the Greek word for atonement actually means. It's reconciliation. So Paul's saying like Jesus had died, and then we can have reconciliation. So the question then becomes, well, what is real reconciliation? And reconciliation is that I have flaws. And I can reconcile them to reconcile means to be, so I have flaws, and I can be with them without shaming myself, or it means to be friendly again. So I was kind of an enemy to myself. And the way that I treated myself was pretty, pretty shitty. And now I've reconciled with my past. And I've reconciled with the amount of awareness that I had when I did the things that I am kind of ashamed and embarrassed of. I've reconciled that. And I'm now friends with myself again. And then if you say, from that perspective, you could say, oh, well, now we could break down the word atonement at one meant, and meant means mind. And so now that I've reconciled, and I'm friends, with myself, again, I am at one with myself, in my own mind. And if I can get to that state, then I can be at one with you, regardless of the state that you're in. So is it possible then, because in my experience, some of the hardest places that I have ever been have created the most opportunity for light, even though they have been the most painful, whether it was something I created or something that was done to me? And then could it be possible then that Jesus and the bleeding of every pore, was him actually going into every part of him that asked for reconciliation? of the self? Yeah, yeah. That's, that's what I think was actually happening. And what is the thing that actually that I actually need to do I need to do that. And so how does Christ become my teacher? Or my mentor? Or not Christ? But how does Jesus become my teacher or my mentor, because Jesus and Christ are not, they're not synonymous. Even though he embodies the Christ, I think it's just important to be really clear in the communication, like, what is Jesus actually doing, he's actually doing that which I need to go do. But he did it for himself showing that it is possible so that I could maybe follow down that way, and go do that myself. And then realize my own Christ within me, my own inner Christ. This is also I mean, this really implies a lot of things. And I've had to wrestle with this for a long time. Isaiah says, when, when Jesus is going to be born, and really the way that he's saying it is when this person who's going to be born, who embodies the inner Christ, so deeply and so completely, when he's born, he's going to be abandoned, abused, betrayed and rejected. But then when you get into like healing traumas, and why, why you keep getting into relationships that you feel abandoned, abused, betrayed. And all of a sudden, you realize, well, I'm the co creator of these patterns that keep showing up in my life, and I'm not a victim to them. So when they these types of relationships of abandonment, and abuse, and betrayal and rejection continue to show up, it's because you, you don't think you have a role in that, that that relationship, you don't get, you feel like you're a victim and you got screwed over. Well, then they keep showing up these types of relationships. So for Jesus to be an adult, and to be abandoned, abused, betrayed. And rejected means that that is just a mere to the relationship he was having first with himself. It implies that he was struggling with self abandonment, self rejection, self abusing, self betraying, and no one ever looks at that, because you know, he's got to be flawless, which, which I just don't, I don't buy into that. I've never been to that. I can't buy into that narrative. If he's flawless, well, then he can't relate to me, or I can't relate to him either way. And so what I think is happening in the Garden of Gethsemane is Jesus is coming into that final depths of, of embodying and making peace with himself. And on asking those deep questions of the self, to what you're saying, if he continues to pull in people that are abusive, where am I abusing myself? Yeah, and those are some of the hardest questions, especially when we have been a victim to different circumstances in our life, different partnerships. We'll just talk about that. Different partners that we attract that are abusive, and that is a real thing that happens to people. But then to turn that around and ask yourself, ask myself, Where am I abusing myself? It is one of the hardest things to sit with. How am I creating this? Yeah, this this is Jacob's Russell. If you remember, in the Old Testament, Jacob is wrestling with God. And then he gets his hip dislocated. And after Jacob's wrestle with God, he makes peace with God. And then he gets a new name, and the new name is Israel. So Jacob's name becomes Israel. And the word Israel means, like he who wrestles with God, or those who wrestle with God. So when you have the house of Israel, or the people of Israel, what it's really saying is the people who wrestle with themselves in in their wounds and why they're self abandoning, and what their role was, this is what God's people actually do. Because they're wrestling with the God within themselves and the devil within themselves. And and I think the story is metaphorical. I don't think literally a God comes down in wrestles with a human because clearly, if Gods are so powerful, that's not even a match. He's just gonna with us, and it's no wonder he dislocated his hip. Right? It's like he should have done worse than that. And so maybe gods is not a good wrestler. I don't know, maybe Jacob is like super good at wrestling. But when you break it down, metaphorically, if, if Jacob all of a sudden is coming to a chapter in his life, where he's like, Oh, my gosh, I'm the light of the world to oh my gosh, there's no such thing as as a sin that makes me not enough. And just into shame myself into debase myself, that's not a thing. He's going to wrestle with himself, so greatly to your point, it's such a painful thing to face and feel that it will feel like your hip is, is being dislocated, which is your most fortified joint in the body, right? It's your most powerful, everything happens from the hips, and, and so it's just saying, that's how difficult that wrestle is going to be. And, and Christ had the wrestle too. And I think it's, I think it's difficult. At least it's been that difficult for me, there's times that I like, tap out. I just like, I just hit timeout, like, No, I can't wrestle with this anymore. I'm good with my shit. It's easier for right now. Because we're human. And we get to do that. It's like, everything's a choice. Today, I'm choosing to be human and wallow in my misery, and be here and do whatever the hell I want. And then tomorrow, maybe I'll look at it. We do, we often forget that we are human to have a human experience. There's a reason we chosen with this physical body. There's, I mean, that's a whole other podcast. But yeah, we do get to give ourselves grace and permission to move at our own pace and recognize that we do have choice in all things. And so one day, you may feel like you're getting all this information, and it's beautiful and lovely. And the next day, you may, you may feel like shit, and are done. And you're done with this life. Yeah, it's true. It's like how did I end up in this crappy relationship that abandoned me, I feel abandoned, or I feel abused? Well, either you're a victim or you're a co creator. And if you're a co creator, well, then you have to realize that you chose into those patterns that you chose into those beliefs of shame based beliefs about you. And they may have been so programmed you were not even fully aware that you were choosing into it, but you still, you still chose into it. It's still you. And that's really, really hard, like the most hard moment for me to realize is like, Oh, this is all showing up. And it's so much pain, and I've got so much conflict with it. It's creating suffering in me. And it's because I'm choosing it. Yeah. And there was a time that if you would have said that to Hue four or five years ago, I would have been like, What the hell are you talking about? You are retarded. I just wouldn't have even understood what was being said. And I think that's part of the awakening process is coming to them. One step at a time. Yeah, thank goodness. So we don't blow our circuits. Yeah. Oh, well, I would love to have you back on so we'll have to talk about we'll have to talk about that some more. But you have started to tick tock channel. Yes, yes, I met I'm going and this is just starting so if you're listening go follow you. What is the name? What is your name on tick tock? Um, well, the name on it is you can change your name and right now the name on it is cowboy Jesus. Oh, good. So you did do that? I love it. Yeah. Because that's what everyone's As because I Deke out and, you know, you provide this beautiful platform for me to, like, express these things where I don't really get to express in my height and notebooks and, you know, and, and, but then when I go out on the adventure rides, and we do our retreats, and we do all this stuff, this stuff naturally comes out. And a lot of people really resonate with it. So then they say, Well, where can I get more of it, and I don't have a place to put it. So I decided I would put these types of thoughts on tick tock, and everyone refers to when I, they just call me cowboy Jesus, which is embarrassing, but it is not embarrassing. I love it. I think it's going to totally take off. So I'm going to make sure to put it in the show notes. Do you have any retreats coming up? We do. We have one coming up in middle of August, from the 11th to the 14th. That's a Thursday to Sunday. And then I've got an event called 100 women, basically to teach sovereign wholeness. And what that really is, so that they can have the sovereign healthy partnerships. And that's in September, and then we have retreats in October, as well. Awesome. I'll make sure to put all these I'll link them in the show notes so people can go, go snag it and go follow you on Tik Tok and, yeah, and Mustang medicine. events.com. Perfect is where you can see the whole schedule of what's coming up. Awesome, awesome. Thanks, you. I always love our conversation. So thank you for saying yes to being not just having a conversation with me, but to everybody. Yeah. All right, well, I'll make sure to put that in the show notes. Make sure and go follow you. Thank you, Dave. Thank you. I'm hoping that I can talk you into being on the podcast fairly regularly. And I I'm betting he will. And it's always so fascinating having these conversations, and I'm sure that you enjoyed it as well. In fact, if you are enjoying this podcast, please head over to Apple and leave me a five star review. That would help me so much to just get this out there. And I'm seeing more by others who are really needing that place of just feeling like they can be held and have some of these thoughts that are discussed and, and tools to really utilize in our lives. And as he mentioned, we I will post it in the show notes below. But you can have head over to his website, Mustang medicine.com Ford slash events, I believe was a link, I'll share it down below, and then go follow him on his Twitter account at cowboy Jesus to see what he's going to start sharing there, I'm really excited to see how he grows that account. This will be super fun. And then again, just a reminder, if you are looking for more tools, I have created this really beautiful meditation guided meditation journey series that will assist you in unwinding. So as we're talking about these programs, through this, this episode, and talking about those places that we get to identify, hey, this is actually an old old program that I'm holding on to this guy to these guided meditations that I created are wholly there. The whole reason why I created it was to assist you in unwinding those parts within you. So if it's of interest to you head over, head over to my website, Amanda joy loveland.com forward slash leaving religion tools, that is Amanda joy loveland.com forward slash leaving religion tools. And then again, if you are feeling the call to step into a beautiful experience, come join us for the embody experience September 22 through 25th. Not only will we be having different experiences, learning different tools, you'll have somatic experiences to where when you walk out you are changed, and you have more access to the embodiment of all that you are. But we will also be sending you home with a 21 to 28 day after care kind of program to where you can do this on your own time. You can go it's different practices and different tools to really continue the embodiment piece because often we go into the retreat spaces, and we go home and it's kind of a now what I had all this amazing experience these things that I've learned, but I don't know how to integrate it into my daily life. We have tools that will assist you in embodying it after this experience together. Not only that, but we will be spending three weeks together on Zoom calls, three different zoom calls to also continue to help you in your embodiment. So head over to my website, Amanda loveland.com, forward slash inbody I Nbody and secure your spot today. And as always sending you so much love and your journey today. Give yourself grace and have the courage to continue to lean into those places within you that are asking to be seen. You are not alone my friend and we are all in this together. So I hope today in this moment Right now, smile, smile for three seconds, five seconds and acknowledge the beauty that you are and the light as you shared the light that you are sending you all so much