Boundaries with God with Michelle Wilding

Have you ever considered that having boundaries with God / Spirit is a very healthy thing? This is a new concept for most people and something that we should discuss more.

Join me today as I sit down with Michelle Wilding as we have a beautiful and interesting conversation around the filters that the voice of god can come through.
Diving into the pendulum swing that can happen when we leave and some of the spiritual pitfalls after leaving religion.

Are you being a victim to what God is telling you to do?

What are the results you are getting out of your life? Are you liking them?

This episode really covers so many great insights, thoughts and tools to assist you in navigating the waters after leaving religion.

You are not alone!

To listen to Michelle's first episode with me where she shares her story of leaving, go here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0BenHUKSPCXm5s6agDlC7I?si=Si7V7KY9TKKyCGAISNvdgw

Links:

To see more about Michelle & Amanda's upcoming training, click here: https://www.thesoco.org

Grab my latest book to assist you in your faith transition:
https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Religion-Those-Leave-Behind/dp/1952566487/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=leaving+religion+%26+those+we+leave+behind&qid=1665446189&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIwLjAwIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=leaving+religion+%26+those+%2Caps%2C123&sr=8-1

Looking for more tools? Click here to grab my guided meditation bundle to assist you in unwinding the energetics out of your field so that you can see and feel more cleanly. https://www.amandajoyloveland.com/leavingreligiontools

Let's stay in touch!

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Transcript

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Have you ever thought that you should have boundaries with God? Spirit source, whatever the title of God or that higher connection that you have, whatever that label is, have you ever considered or thought that may be whatever that is that voice that you're hearing the knowing that you're having is coming through a filter, and then maybe you should have boundaries. Today I get to dive into a beautiful conversation about this with my friend, Michelle wilding. And as always I am thrilled that you're here and listening with us on my podcast leaving religion a guide, I am your host, Amanda joy, Loveland. And as Michelle and I dive in, you'll soon find out why she was one of my dear dear friends, we I love our conversations. I love her mind. I love how it works. And her and I think very similarly, but not only that, she's brilliant. She has her degree in psychology, but she is a certified trainer what she does in her day to day, she's a certified trainer of NLP, which is neuro linguistic programming, and also hypnotherapy. I believe she has other so many other tools underneath her belts, but she's amazing. And she is someone that outside of our friendship, if I need a session, I reached out to Michelle. So I'm really excited to share this episode with you. And if you're interested in learning, Michelle and her business partner, Amanda Nelson have a really beautiful training coming up here in a few weeks. If you're wanting if you're in that place of your law in your life, that you're just wanting more, maybe you're looking for a new vocation, maybe you're just learning wanting to learn more about how you can become a better human how you can get to the limiting beliefs or the root of what's going on with you. This is a training I would highly recommend. In fact, I just did this last year with both of them. They're beautiful teachers, you end up walking out the door with three different certificates. One of them is a master NLP practitioner. Another I believe, is as a coach and another one is as an energy. I don't know if it's a healer, I can't remember. But it's a beautiful training, I'd highly recommend you go check it out. If this is peeking your curiosity at all, head to their website, thus soco.org That's the s o c o.org. And without further ado, let's dive into this fascinating conversation with Michelle wilding. Hi. Oh, sorry. It's your podcast. You start. This is our episode. We're videoing Today we're testing this out. Yeah. So if you guys see me, I didn't know so I have like no makeup on. I have no eyelashes and my hair is freshly washed, but it's washed your. Your? Uh, yes, I'm very clean. This is the this is gonna be raw and unedited, unfiltered. Yes. Which we like. Yeah, I was just talking to somebody about that last night. It's like we're so tired of the whole and you and I were talking about that the other day too. Just to fake and it's like I get we have all these filters and and get we have our insecurities. And I will be completely honest. I do a little tiny filter when I do my stories. Just the one so it just saw oh my god, you guys, you look at her Instagram. You know, it's it's just a little tiny one. So props to you for doing the stories. I'm still getting into that. I learned something yesterday about Instagram. But I'll tell you that, because that's not what this podcast is about talking about that. Well I had in our I'm sitting here with Michelle wilding. Hi, guys. And Michelle is one of my dearest dearest friends. And one of the many many reasons I love you is because of her freaking conversations. We Yeah, we definitely go some interesting places. Yes, we do. And recently, things have been coming up around. There's a lot of when when we step out of religion, we look to those places of trying to find the gurus, those people that are gonna teach us things that we don't know. And there's so many I hate to use the word pitfalls, but I'm just going to use the word pitfalls because I think that's what this is going to be titled with spiritual pitfalls. Totally. Because we were putting it to Yeah, and and in one sense it's like you know, it's part of our learning that's great. But we are this what this conversation is about is a spiritual pitfalls of what do you normally come into what what to do about it? And kind of what, what things to kind of look for when you're stepping into this, you know, I'm out of religion. Now. I'm stepping into this, who am I? What's my connection to God source, we even believe in a god source, and then starting to kind of go into a lot of times we go into the woowoo world, which I love the movie world. It's really fun. And there's a very, very vast degree of woowoo enough. Yes, that is very true. Let's go down snake it in the forest, which I mean can be fun. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when we start branching out of our norms, it's like we start learning more about who we are. Yeah, and it's definitely it's definitely interesting. Well, I think one of the biggest reasons why like coming out like when you step out of religion, it was so structured you do this you like, you follow the Prophet or you follow whoever it is the leader of you know, whatever religion it is, you're leaving and like that rejection piece of wanting that you want to go authentically, no rules, no boundaries, I get to choose what I want. I get to create my own world, which I think there is a truth in that. But then it also kind of comes back into, like, how does that actually play into a life that's happy and fulfilled? Yeah. Because I think either way, it's like if you're in religion, or if you're really into the spiritual aspect of things, it really comes back down to the same as your wanting to create a life that you love, to create freedom, treat happiest create experiences. And at some point, it's like, okay, well, if being told what to do didn't work. Now I'm going to try doing whatever I want as authentic as I want in the moment. And I mean, I think you've kind of noticed this, too, but it's like, I did that. I was like, oh, yeah, I get to do what I want. It gets to feel how I want. And it didn't really create. It was it was really chaotic. My life started to explode. Like, there were some amazing things that happened. I got to see different parts of myself. But there were other things. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, like my bank account sucks, man, I keep blowing up relationships. My emotions were all over the place all the time. I was constantly seeking for that next high of you know, if it was a breakthrough, or, yeah, when I feel like this kind of comes into the boundary peace. You know, and I think where you're speaking to where there's so much structure within religion of what to do, and what not to do that when you step out of it, I mean, I think I hate the when people talk about, oh, they're the pendulum swing, now they're gonna go off into left field and do whatever. And I hate that. But there is some truth in varying ways as far as what that looks like. And this is why I feel like you're speaking to is a it is like, Oh, great, I'm gonna go experience all these parts of me. But then there's a resistance to boundaries around it. And actually boundary with I would love to tap into and talk about boundaries of spirit. Okay, this is such a good one such a good one. That I feel like I have dove deep into it. Because it's you talk like boundary with spirit or even like boundaries with God, right? Well, you're taught and religion no one, it's like you do what God tells you to do. And then we have stories that talk about you know, depending on what religious texts it is, like, you know, Abraham commanded to go kill his son are, you know, if it's in the Book of Mormon, Nephi, killing labor, like you hear these things is like, I need to do whatever God tells me to do, or I'm not going to get into heaven. Here's the deal. We don't really know how those stories played out. Again, those stories were written by somebody, and then they've been translated. How many times do how many years? We don't know exactly. But if you listen to the story piece, and this isn't me talking from my own, maybe you guys didn't think this kind of thing. But I would read this kind of stuff. I'm like, No, whatever God tells me to do. I am supposed to do Yeah. 100%. Like, that's just what it is. All of it. Carry that. And but then the question is, is do I know if I'm hearing God or not? I mean, that's a whole other. Yeah, that's a whole other thing, too. And I think you have to get to the point where you understand what it feels like. So for me, personally, I felt like, I mean, I remember being little, I'm like, I just want to serve God, like I'm here to serve God. I was like, this little eight year old girl who was like, whatever I'm supposed to do, I'm gonna do at the time, like in the Mormon religion, you're not supposed to, like you're supposed to keep the Sabbath day holy. Well, I was just like, super determined little horseback rider, who was like working her butt off to go to the Olympics. And I got to the point, I was really good. But I got to the point where the competitions were on Sunday, so then my little self was like, Well, I have to stop competing now. Literally gave up my dream and thinking like, Okay, I'm just supposed to do what I've said. And so for so long, it was like I did what I was supposed to do. This is how I'm going to be worthy. This is how I thought I was going to be happy, because that's what you were taught. And that whole thing of just like doing whatever God told you, I didn't realize before that me doing whatever God told me was what the church told me to do. It's like, okay, being totally obedient. So then when I swung when I was like, okay, not happy. Had blight, having left religion all of a sudden swinging to the other side? Well, then I was like, a lot of like, I mean, I talked about I've talked about my leaving the church before I left, because I wanted to find God. So I was very much like I had been developing this relationship. Hey, how do I ask questions? How does God talk to me? What does this look like? And I'd had some experiences that whole thing. So then when I left, I didn't realize, because this is what happens. A lot of times you have been caught programming or beliefs or different ways you do things in religion, that you think when you leave religion that you left that behind, and you don't a lot of unwind a long time sometimes, yes. And so what I realized is I had took this whole thing, because before it was like, Oh, I just do what I'm told. So it doesn't really matter what I feel inspired to do. If it doesn't fall in line with what the Church tells me. It's wrong. And I talked about my story before, like, you know, I'd gotten married, and I felt like I was supposed to stay. That was the first time I was like, listening to my own intuition. Well, all of a sudden, then I swung over into this world that wasn't a part of religion. Then I was like, well, whatever God tells me I'm going to do because that's kind of how I was trained and raised and programmed as a child. And now that I wasn't falling to church, I had to find something new to follow. And it was I, there was a point like, well, if I feel inspired to do this, I'm just gonna do this. And then I kind of almost felt like I would, whatever the consequences are, that's not on me because God told me to do this. But I realized that I was sitting in groups, and a lot of people had the same mentality. Like, it wasn't just me. And there was kind of this idea. Well, if you feel inspired, you're just supposed to do it. And whatever happens that did that that's not on you. But I started to look at these years old, like you're a victim to God telling you what to do. And you're just a little vessel. I literally, you actually don't have free choice, even though in religion, we told you, you did. You don't. So I'm taking that here. Well, now I really don't have like, I have choice. But I really don't I have to do it. I feel inspired to do and I feel like God's telling me to do this. I just have to do it. I literally remember having conversations with some of my friends. I'm like, I feel like I'm in this abusive relationship with God. He tells me to do these things. And it's super hard and it sucks. And then I'm like, okay, Please, God, give me some more like, Please, Sir, give me some more like, have some more. And I just always felt like I was like, Well, God's gonna tell me to do something. And it's gonna be hard. And that's just how it is. And then I just started watching, like, what are the results? Then I had to, like, really get clear is like, okay, is God telling me this? Or is it not? Because really, when you start to feel getting into having your own inspiration, that is a fine line that I'm still figuring out. And I we always are. Yeah. And so I got to the point I was like, which kind of sucks, let's just call this out for just a minute. There's an I feel like I've talked about this lately. This whole arrival, this destination is home point, whatever of like, Oh, yes, I figured this piece out. Like some of these really big things like the god connection, source connection, whatever you receive in your higher self, I feel like it is constantly shifting and changing, because we are 100%. And you also depending, and this is my belief, whatever you believe, I think is totally fine. What am I here to do? Are we here? Do we believe that God is here to test us to be obedient? Or are we here to have experiences? Well, guess what, if you're just here to have experiences, it can be like, Hey, should I go take out this loan to do this? Well, sure, yeah. If that's what you want, that's what you want. Hey, well, should I need to do this? Well, why? Like, really, I had to realize what is it that I'm actually seeking? And is the inspiration I'm getting taking me to there? I had to switch my. Because before I was like, I'm just being obedient. I had to switch my thinking into what are the results that I want? And is it bringing me that? And having boundary on spirit is where that kind of started to happen? Because really, you can get inspiration for a lot of different things. But it depends on where you're going. And why. Yeah. Why do you want that? Like, because I really do think that a lot of it when you switch your mentality from not trying to just be obedient so you can make get to heaven, which that was kind of how I felt like with my religion that I left, it's like, Nope, I just have to be obedient. I just have to do the things I have to prove myself, so I can eventually make it to heaven. Well, when you take that away, well, then what is life about? Where's it that you're going? Yeah, because if it's just about experiences, you can have a lot of them. And you got to get really clear on what's the experiences that you wanted to have. And then you do have to put boundaries on spirit. Because, again, whatever you believe, it's like, Who are you listening to? And who's talking to you. And that can come to a lot of different things. If you're super in the woowoo. You can think that's other beings as entities, or even with yourself, depending on how your program, you're going to feel different things based on certain situations. Yeah, 100% when i. So you're, you're someone that has always heard pretty clear. And there's a lot of us, including myself that haven't Yeah. And so that was one of those pieces that as I kind of stepped out of, like, I would get answers, but I wasn't really sure if they were answers when I was religious, but then I would kind of Yep, that was an answer. Because I would feel it my body say, kind of have those things, but I didn't hear in the way that I felt like other people heard. So it's like, oh, my gosh, something something's wrong with me. So when I leave religion, I moved more into like, you know, learning about my gifts and spirituality and some different pieces. And I would have different beings that would come in right through different sessions. And then you'd have different experiences. And then I wanted to learn how to become a psychic. Like I'm like, I don't really want to learn how to be a psychic. And it was really fascinating because one of the first things that we did is she had me write a letter, in a sense to like a letter of acceptance into she's like, it's almost like you're writing here's your acceptance letter into Hogwarts kind of thing. Oh, I kind of like that. But you put in there I'm opening these gifts. I'm wanting to be online for this. But here are the hours I'm available. Here are the boundary pieces so huge because I actually have had moments as a child I was always petrified of gatos and of the dark because I could actually fill darker entities all the time and in Christianity especially and really in the world, we are so programmed that the shadow is bad get that out we need to do exorcisms. You know it all sorts of it's it's connected with the devil was Satan. And we're also taught to me let's talk about shut down our gifts to how kids see things or how like their imaginary best friend or like, don't talk about that right? No, that's there's something Yes, that my kids great example the nannies will get freaked out because it kept my kids would see spirits and then scare the shit out of them. So they turned off those gifts because it's like it's not socially acceptable. So it's really interesting to go through that experience. And I feel like it feels pertinent here. Because we like what we're talking about when you want to be available for everything, because that's a really cool thing. It's like, yes, and if you constantly are and it's really important, if you're really open to so I have an agreement with spirit, I mean sources a little bit different. But spirits can only come in when I'm doing when I'm in session, unless, unless there's a really fine print here. Unless it's a situation to where they haven't been able to get through to a loved one any other way. And that very, very rarely happens. And I feel like this kind of dovetails a little bit into when you start, like learning you have these gifts. You don't just start reading everybody that you see and start like oh my gosh, I see so and so with you and your color is this and I'm noticing this, it's like, Holy hell. Oh man, let's Okay, let's get into that one. Because I got I got things to say about that one little quick on the having the having the boundary on spirit and your spiritual gifts. That's true. When I first got into it, I could see I could feel. And I could see and I could feel everyone and it was so overwhelming. I literally got to the point, same as you I literally told God Spirit, whatever we want to say, hey, if I'm not if I can't actually help them, and it's not appropriate to help them, I don't want to see it. Because there's there's no reason. Because all I did is I walked around and I saw everyone's pain, everyone's trauma. And then it got to the point where I'm living in this world. I'm like, This feels terrible. But then to it's like, here's the deal, just because you can see something like if you let's say you have the gift, or you can feel it mine is more of like a sense, I can feel things. And like if I can feel someone else's pain? Well, I realized it was like putting boundaries on spirit. But I always had to put boundaries on myself. 100% Because boundaries on myself is just because I can see or feel something on someone else. Some of my greatest learnings and my greatest growth came from my pain being there long enough until I changed. And so I had to start seeing it differently. But it was like to say that again. Yes. So some of the biggest evolution and growth I had is being with my pain and having it stick with me long enough until I decided to change till you did nothing. Anybody could tell you, Hey, I see this. But unless you came to an agreement of like seeing what it was, and what was there to see for you in the gifts, it's not really it's not gonna leave. And the thing is, too is again, talking about the shadow, we're saying that it's so terrible. But what if it's the thing that literally is helping you to become everything that you want? It comes in and we're like, oh my gosh, this is so terrible. And I can't I can't have this happen. When it's the thing that actually gets you through it. My name an example on this one really quick, is a little different. So I have two cousins. Both struggled with drug addictions. Yeah, one of them literally didn't have help. Her family was like, Nope, you're gonna have to figure this out. She was on the street for like three years lost her kids TWICE, TWICE. She's now very successful. She's gotten her family together. She pulled herself out of it, by other cousin had tons of help. People kept trying to come in like, hey, let's, here's a fancy rehab. Let's go to here. She struggled over and over and over and Oregon still doesn't have custody of her daughter. Difference. One, that pain literally transformed her into everything that she needed to do to be to the point where she didn't need the drugs anymore. Where the other own, everyone kind of kept trying to come in to save to save to save. Yeah, still in it. So it's like, what was the pain bad? No, it pulled her out to figure out what was ever causing her to do that. So I had to see that with the gifts realizing like, No, I might see a bunch of pain or whatever. How do I not know that that's exactly what they need. Right? I don't get to go play God and say I can see this. So we're going to change it. And actually how interesting is it and ironic is it then that we have the Savior archetype that's supposed to save us and take us some and move us out of the pain and loss of actually moving through it and for me like a very personal I had bouts of depression where I knew my lowest of lows like I just to where you feel like nobody's there. It's dark. It's a shity shity difficult place to be in. Yeah. And it was one of those things that especially with depression, when you get there's nobody that can help you in that space and we do turn to drugs or we try to turn to therapists, but at the end of the day, you are alone with your emotions, whatever they are at that time later on in life because I knew my lows I knew of where I could go on, I got to a point to where I could pull myself out of that freaking Dark Pit. Later on in a relationship, I saw that place that we were going and that I was going to continue going if I stay in that relationship. So it ended up being a gift to me later, of knowing what I was capable of, and knowing to where this relationship was going. And if I didn't pull myself out, I would never come out. Yeah, and I knew those places. So well, it's like, Oh, I'm not choosing that. No, I'm gonna choose something different. But it wasn't because I had medicated it wasn't because I went to some shaman, even though I'm a shaman, Shaman. They're good. And told me these things that they saw it was because I had those physical, deep sell somatic experiences. That then were some of my greatest teachers later on in life of knowing who and what I'm capable of. When I think that's, it's this really important, because I think a lot of times, it's like, we're trying to we come having structure, it's like little kids, right? You want the rules, you want the boundaries that keeps you safe? Well, once you've had that foundation, you're realizing if it's a religion, it's no longer working for you. When you leave, you're trying to make these rules and trying to figure it out. And a lot of times are things like, well, this is how it is it has to be this way for everyone, or this is what it is, and you're trying to do it, especially going back to like having boundaries with spirit. It's like, you have to figure out what are you available for what are you not available for? What are things that are like, open? I wasn't going to share this experience. But I was like, interesting to talk about it. So I'm a coach, and I work with a lot of women. And one of the things like the personal development world, it's like you can get like these really like culty mentalities where these groups can kind of turn into this, like, interesting thing. And I was always like, I don't know, no, I don't want to be one of those people. I don't want to be anyone's leader. I don't want to be anyone's guru. But I was also feeling called to get, you know, to this point of like helping people. And I remember I kept thinking about it, because that's one thing. If there's a problem, I'm gonna think about it, I'm gonna look at it, and we're gonna dissect it. And I'm like, What do I have this thing because I feel like I'm being called to do it. And I was watching I was on Hulu was called under the banner of heaven. Okay, super interesting, but wants to Yeah, it's super interesting. Lafferty brothers that actually lived around here, like creative minds and Utah. And I was watching and I was like, okay, where, because a lot of things that they were talking about, were just following God. We're just following God, this is what God's telling us to do. And I was like, um, they ended up killing people and like going crazy. And you hear those things that people just saying they're following spirit. This is what God said. And I was looking at it. I was like, Wait, what is like, what is this? Like? How did they get to this point? Well, one, you have to be very clear about what spirit sounds like what God sounds like to you. And I feel like that's like a fine line. I kept looking at it and looking at it. And this was like, the first time I got to the point where I was like, you want to know it? No, I'm not willing to do it, edit what God said, up to this point, I would have been the one. If God tells me to do it. I'm gonna do it. Yeah, absolutely. I also realized I was raised that way to say, this is what it looks like, this is what you have to do in order to be an Ascended being or to get to heaven, or to be a good person. And I made that thing. I was like, No, you want No, I'm not. I will not do anything. I'm not willing to kill somebody, not willing to go cheat on my partner, because something inside of me feels like I should go do that. It was like, that's a no for me. Yeah. And so. And it was, all of a sudden, once I created those boundaries for myself, it was like, I felt like I could move again. It was like, no, because I believe we're here to experience ourselves at the greatest highest version. This is sovereignty, sovereignty, peace. And that's me, again, we just started out of itself always starts with, it's all about the self, like, let's be honest, anything that we're doing, if it's helping whatever, really always comes back to you, right. And that's the thing like my belief, we talked about it like I think in like the first podcast where I think I think we've interviewed I don't can't remember how many other podcast episodes we've done. And I'll make sure and link them down below. But I talked about, like, my belief about is that I feel like Jesus came in to show us what was possible. Again, there's a whole idea he came to save us, maybe I don't understand. But for me, it's like he came to show us what was possible. Well, I'm here to experience myself at the greatest level possible, I get to create that. What are the boundaries for me? What are the rules for me? What am I willing to do and what I'm not willing to do? Well, then having that awareness that anything that does come through as far as inspiration or you're hearing something is coming through our filters. Yes. And that's the kicker. And it's like, I know a lot of the things that we're talking about, can make your head kind of spin a little MB like, oh my gosh, I don't even know where to go right now, what does even mean right how to do it. I'm just gonna invite everybody that's listening, just to take a breath that these are things to consider. But that's the kicker is that they are like when I step in, you and I both we step into client sessions, it's always coming through our filter every single time and so I'd say that gets to be spoken into the space. And you know, 100%, too, because it's like it's coming through your filter. And if it's coming through your filter, I think one of the biggest things you have to do is if you're going to step into the point where you're starting to figure out, I do want to listen to God, what God is for me, I do want to listen to spirit, I do want to be inspired and listened to, you also get to take 100% accountability for the choices that you make. Yeah, you're not a victim to this, you are the song you are the person that's making that choice to listen to whatever it is that you're hearing, and whatever happens for that you get to take responsibility for that. If it's like, because like, let's be honest, in the spiritual woowoo world, you see people, I'm supposed to go be with this person, even though I'm married, and I have a family. I'm going to leave my family behind. Okay, well, if it all blows up, and everything's terrible, and you've heard a bunch of people, you don't get to stand on the corner. Well, God told me to so I'm fine. No, I didn't do that. That doesn't matter. Because I listened to spirit. It's like, No, I do. I mean, if you know me, you know me. I know. I very much I love. I'm like, Hey, cool. I feel like God's telling me to do this. I feel like I get to go here. I even felt at one time, like, I got married. And I'm 10 months. And I'm like, I don't think this is gonna be good for both of us. Cool. You want to know, I was that person at first, like, Well, God told me to God told me to. And finally, man, you should say. So I was like, Oh, my God told me to leave. And so it's like, whatever it was, I wanted to blame. I was like, Well, this is fine. I can do it. Finally, I said, you want to know what? I wanted to have a different life than that way that was going my soul knew that. And what I felt like God was saying, did that, and I'm okay, if you're mad at me. I'm okay. If you think that I did wrong for most of the time, and probably even still, my mom's like, I don't think you heard God. They're cool. That was super hurtful for me. Yeah. But I get to take responsibility for whatever it is you're doing. And then I think you need to start looking at Cool. Is it working? Or is it not working? And if it's not working, you don't just get to blame God he's or spirit saying they're taking in the wrong direction? It's like, no, what are you actually listening to? Well, there's two pieces to this one, when you say, you know, is it working or not working? This is where so you are a master NLP practitioner, and coach and teacher and all sorts of things. So the way that you see the world is always looking at what are the results that I'm getting. Because if they're not the results that I want, then there's something internally that I get to shift. So that's what you're speaking to, if you're listening to God, whatever it is the voice that you're hearing, and you're not getting the results you want in life, then maybe you should start asking questions or wonder what filter this is coming through. And maybe that's not God you're actually hearing. And to think that, you know, so it's kind of like that. Well, how do I know if I'm hearing God? Yep. How do I know if it's not my uncle that passed away? That's just wanting to play or you know what I mean? Like, they're How do I not know, this? Is my inner child or my subconscious mind? That has this program that's afraid to do this? And it's telling me not to? Yeah, yeah. And you know, and this brings up, I think one of the easiest ways to do that is to ask yourself every day show me what the voice of God sounds like, like, let me see the difference? Am I hearing God? Or am I hearing something different? And getting really clear with that question, and I think that would be really unique for each person. Oh, for sure. One of the practices I still do every day is I do inspired action, like cool. What's the one inspired action I get to do today? And I would start just listening to see I'd like, Okay, let's see what it is. And with that one most the time, it's not very big. And it's not really like you're not gonna do a lot of damage with that, right? Like most of my inspired actions, like, hey, tech, so and so, hey, do this. I started doing that, because I was trying to fine tune what the voice felt like. Yeah, but I would also watch to see what happened that came from the things that I did. So you just said felt like and this is where I think there's a interesting, distinct, distinct uation distinct distinguishing factor. Fishing factor. I feel like in my experience, and maybe it's because I'm a feeler but most of us are, when I hear something that is more source energy, or my higher self, whatever you want to call it, usually I will feel it throughout my entire body as truth. And that I feel like it's a slight difference between something that's just Spirit coming in, because I'll feel that but it'll be different. Yeah, because I know for me usually, like, and I think I should be really clear when I hear God talk to me, you guys. It's my own voice is my own thought. I'm not hearing this outside source. It's coming like your show. Go do this today. You hear that? I want to talk to you because that's so interesting. That's not comes from me. Like those people. That would be so cool. But when it comes to it's usually like, a thought that comes in. Sounds like my own normal thought, except it says it's saying something that's like, that doesn't it kind of sounds like me, but it's but it's a little different. It's like no that I wouldn't normally think of this and it's coming in in a way that doesn't feel like me. And for me, you guys, most of the time I don't get this full body experience. Mine is it's in my chest and it's little and a lot of times I can have inspiration come in and my whole body say nope, nope, nope, I don't like this. I don't like this And there's just a little tiny feeling. It's the whisper of something I've had to really feel like, Nope, it's just a solid feeling mine just solid. It's just as grounded. You get to do it. Okay, you guys. There's also times though, when something comes in, and I'm like, I'm so excited. I love this. And that same feeling inside is like, it's not right. Yeah. So most of the time, I don't listen to what I feel. If it's heightened either way, and that's super happy or not, I don't listen to the heightened feeling. I get really still. And it's this feeling inside of me. But it's little. That's something that you I mean, I can't even remember how long ago this was a few years ago. How long have we known each other now? Anyway, minute you and I was going through something and you just knew one of the things you said to me that stuck to me to this day. I never make decisions from a place of when I'm really in it. What it's chaos when it feels frantic when it's Phil's like, just scattered and never make decisions from that place. Like it's or if it's super exciting, because you got I've made a lot of decisions when I was so pumped up about it that you're like shit. Not literally, I'm like God dammit, like, and I realized the heightened feeling anytime it feels even slightly chaotic. I won't do it. But But I, I also know where it's not like, well, I have to feel just peaceful about it. No, I can feel feel feel fearful, and have it still feel solid and also move. While a lot of times it feels fearful. Like I'm sitting right now with a piece of possibly going and doing some plant medicine. And I you know me, I'm one that it's like, I have to be really deeply called to do it. Yeah. And I just don't want to do it. And yeah, and the whole time. I am not that girl. I know the people that deal is like really? You think that's fun? Oh, a lot of people do. You know, they like they like the feeling of it, and they get it and that's fine. But for me, I have to be really, really deeply called. And so it's bringing up the anxiety in me, right? Because if there, I see you, I feel you. And it's like the slight distinct, distinct uation between? Am I fearing feeling fearful? Or like that anxiety? Because this is a no for me right now. And that's my indicator of like, yeah, not right now? Or is it like, yep, you get to do this and holy shit, you're gonna go face some shadows? Yeah, you know, and that is a question that I get to sit with. And then I'll make a decision. And we'll move forward. But that happens a lot. Oh, absolutely. And I think a lot of this too, is, I would say the biggest thing for me coming out of religion into this new space is you kind of get to create the rules, you don't get to create the results. You don't get to say, Hey, I'm going to do whatever I want. People have to show up and do it like, are like that expectation yet, you don't get to have an expectation piece. But you kind of get to be like, This is your time to really become the creator that's ever been that you want. Because you are creating your results is just always fine. It's not like Hey, I get to you know, I feel really called to open this program. No one signs up for Well, that's on them, they have to come do this for me, or, Hey, I get to just like, leave my husband and sleep with five different men. And if you do that, there's no judgment on that. I'm just saying that. But you can't be mad that your family broke up. Yeah, you can't say well, no, I get to do this. And you get to stay. And you know, you get to decide what you want to create. But you get to be 100% accountable for all of it. Yeah. So you get to be accountable. So having boundaries on spirit, that's when things really started to shift, because things would come in, hey, you should go do this. Hey, well, what I'm wanting to create is, like, if it's in business, I did that with relationships, too. It was like, oh, let's talk about relationships. Okay, so in relationships, like, I guess when following different things, I had like inspiration come in. I was like, I got really clear, I want my relationship to I want a relationship with someone who's like this, this, this and this. Well, part of what that was, I got to clean myself up, and I got to get ready for that. So when I felt inspired to do certain things, it was I always had a metric of cool was it gonna take me here? And when the inspiration said, yeah, it's going to take you to that and I call that I'll do it. Hey, you know, so you wait your questions when you got inspiration? So weird. Oh, you guys question always, I usually ask questions. You should 100% ask questions when it comes in, ask questions. But in order to ask questions, you have to know where you're going. Cool. What are you wanting to create in your spiritual life? What are you wanting to create in your business life, your relationship life and if you're wanting to use spirit to help create it with God, which I 100% And like a million times on board with because you'll get inspiration and things you could never think of on your own? But don't be that person that's taking anything that comes in you guys. There's so many influences so many voices, your own programming in your mind that can tell you things when it comes in ask questions. Cool. Sweet. Well, what does this mean? When should I do it? Because let's be honest, too. Inspiration comes in. You should open this. Well I had before I feel like I should do something and I take the first step. And I stop asking any questions cuz I thought I saw the end result and I start running a mile down The road it was like, No, I just wanted to take you this step, because then we were going to turn right to go here. And this, this brings up a really, really interesting piece that I noticed is popping in my world, just in conversations that I'm having is, let's talk career seems to be popping up for a lot of people right now. Okay, I would, you know, okay figured out that this is my vision, but I don't know how to get there. It's like the how right and instantly stops. In fact, I just had another conversation about this last night. And it's always interesting that we, our brains, our humaneness always goes into that. But how am I going to get there instead of using inspired action? And doing the one step at a time? Because usually, and this is something that I will apply for any of us in your family life and your relationships and your career in all facets of your life? Has it turned out exactly the way you thought it? Would? Every single person would say, No, oh, absolutely. No, no, absolutely not. In fact, some of the greatest things that have ever happened to us were things we never predicted or never saw, you know, could see coming. So if we do try to take the mile down the road instead of just the one step, and then going, Okay, now, what's the next step? What's the next step and doing one step at a time, we go to places that we didn't think we could, would have gone, because here's the deal. For me personally. And again, if you are still in religion, or if you're listening this and you have people that are leaving, like, there's members of my family that are still in the Mormon church, it is so good for them, like so good for them. And for me, the greatest experiences I've ever had was because I left. Yeah. But it's also scarier. I feel like it's way harder, is way harder, because I just released this last year anyway, it was talking about this. Yeah. But I feel like the rewards of what you can get here are profound, what you can experience inside yourself, what you can experience on the spiritual realm, what you can go and create and who you become if you're willing to keep walking the steps is for me, it's I could never go back. Yeah, I could absolutely never go back. Absolutely. But also realize, I mean, I've been out of religion for 10 years now. So weird. I was like, where's the time though? It's been 10 years. So at the same time, that's crazy. No way. 2012? Yeah. How did we not put that? Oh, yeah. No, maybe we did. And I just don't remember. I did. Yeah. So it's been 10 years. So we're talking about things that if you're just leaving religion, this is stuff that we took years to figure out. I had the time where I do whatever God told me, I'm like, what this didn't turn out well, and then I'd be mad at God tried to be atheist for whole 30 minutes. And then I gotta pray about this. Because I don't know how to do this one. We got to figure something out to say this atheism craps not where Yeah, and so the fact that you're even listening to a podcast that's giving you tips, I hope we cut like, good eight years off of the site. Absolutely. You know, and that's what you listen to stuff like this. So we're telling you about the little things that we've done to get to the point where this spiritual life is so fulfilling, but if you're right now being like, I don't know, I'm trying to find here, God, and they're telling me this weird thing, I blew up my relationship, and my family won't talk to me. And I have no money, like, been there, like been there. And it's okay. Make sure you have the grace with yourself. It's like, part of your learning. Don't Yes, because this is the whole thing. You're setting boundaries. Everywhere. You're setting, you're learning how to set boundaries with spirit. You learn to set boundaries with that inner critic in your head. The one that's so mean telling you you need to have this figured out well, they're doing it. Well. Yeah, we had 10 years of this. It's a pretty painful experiences. And we're hoping that this is going to make it easier for you moving forward. Yeah. But here's here's just real talk real truth. In religion, you had a lot of people you could blame if things didn't work out. You had no I didn't. And that didn't work out. That's your fault. Nope. I checked this off. So I'm good because I did the list. That blessing, but also the scariest part is on you know, it's all you have no one to blame. This is why it's harder. This is why it's harder because most people it's easier. We'll know if I didn't get this all I did was supposed to do it's fine. Well, no, I'm doing this this this. I went to church, I paid my tithing. I did you know, my calling. I'm going to heaven. It doesn't matter. This. You can blame a lot of other things. Nope. I don't have to think about this. Because this is what you know, my church leader told me to do, guess what the scariest part was actually happening. I have to now listen to God. And now, whatever happens, this is on me. Yeah. What does it mean? So taking these things and start looking at it? If there's one thing I could tell you, that helped me the most that switched over is really what life really start thinking, what kind of life do you want to create here? And even if it's little, you want to know what I want to start feeling. I just didn't want to know what it feels like to feel Scott's love. Cool. Well, that's a destination. You're gonna start listening to inspiration and start listening and figuring out how to get to that point. Okay, well, at that point, it's like, for me, like I'm creating, I'm expanding my business. And I'm like, Cool. How does it look like to have God help me do this? Yeah. But I don't get to come in and make a decision of my business and Then when it doesn't work out, Well, God told me to do it. So it's fine. No one should be mad at me. No, I'm like, guess what cool, I get to go fine tune this, I get to see what it looks like here no psycho creation piece. And when we co create with a human, a physical being, like, there's all the times, it's like, Oh, you just pop my stuff. Let's have this, you know, what is this? What gets to be seen? How can we navigate through this? How can we have better communication? Like, I feel like those are similar things that you apply to listening to God, oh, God, you're at your higher self, whatever it is that you think that voice is. And I will say it's worth it. It's worth it to figure this out. Do whatever it takes, make all the mistakes, figure it out, go through the painful things, go have a fight with God, go yell at him. Like, my relationship with God literally is one of probably one of like, the most important things to me, like they were I think about like, I could almost cry, like where it's taken me to put the effort into build my relationship with God. And realizing it's still a relationship, this is not you, victim to whatever God says, and to really building that. Because when you get to that point, all of a sudden, it's like, the wealth of the world's magic just opens up, you experience yourself at a deeper level, you actually get to start creating at this deeper level. And you're learning. I mean, this is a journey, I feel like I'm gonna be on for the rest of my life. And it's going to evolve, it's going to change. Because guess what, you can go yell at God. Like, I used to think that Nope, can't be mad at God. It literally wasn't the day we're all in. I was so mad. I just like laid it out there. Again, the boundaries and the relationship you get to create that this is on you to figure out what you want to do. Yeah, how you want it to be. I keep thinking about different archetypes that we've had in our history, you know, Joan of Arc, totally listen to God, she was totally inspired by God and then you know, was later killed and her whole story and it's quite inspiring. And you listen to different, you know, gurus that have been on the planet and especially Jesus, right. So looking at Jesus do we don't have Ark? You know, we don't know a ton about her. We do. So interesting. You've seen Joe rock. I just had a conversation on this subject with my mom on her. But how interesting. Yeah, because it's like, Okay, here's to let's just take Joan of Arc and Jesus for some reason, they always come in together to me, and I forgot I had written about it in my book, my friends, like, Hey, look at this, and she sends me a chapter the thing and I'm like, Oh, that's really cool. Where's where's that from? She's like your book, you wrote it. I'm like, Oh, I don't remember that. But what the reason why this is coming up for me is here's to people that we have been taught, totally heard the voice of God totally listened, and then had this pretty remarkable life. They were both killed for it. But I especially with Jesus, for me, when I'm tapping into his energy, I believe very strongly, he had it. He had a choice there. And he knew that he was accountable for everything that he was choosing. I don't know, Joan of Arc has not tapped into her energy too much. Okay. So this is an interesting thing. I love that you bring it up, and it totally had this awareness. So my mom read her biography. I can't remember who I was not CS Lewis, I can't remember. Whatever it is, it was something that they went in, and they studied her life. So Joan of Arc, totally heard the voice of God, right? Did all these things. Well, her big thing is she was like the king is these this? From what? Again? You guys, I didn't read this. This is my mom's take on it. But I thought it was a really interesting point. Her life was very similar, prophesied, just like Jesus. So they have a lot of really similar. So when she was sitting in the prison before she was killed, she was like, No, the king is an honorable man. I'm fighting for him. It's supposed to be this. But when you actually look at history, he actually wasn't, he was kind of a little bit of a scoundrel, like, wasn't all these things. And when he couldn't go on, come in to save her. He didn't he left her. And so people I was looking at that I was like, interesting. That's an interesting piece is that I thought this was the most interesting piece. And I love that you brought it up. I was like, her up because it was like, I was sitting with that. I was thinking, I was like, Wait, and my biggest thing is like, Hmm, do I think she heard God? Absolutely. But did it come through a filter that she thought I'm doing this? Because God thinks he's the most amazing man? Or is like, I get to do this? Because this is, what is the best thing to happen in history. But for her motivation, and again, you guys, we talked about programming. And if you really want to understand how you do behaviors, definitely go look into like, subconscious programming and that type of thing. But what if the motivation to do everything that was so hard, she had to believe that he was a man of God, because that was what she would fight for? Yeah. And what if God was willing to let her think that so she would do the thing that was going to change history? Because I know for me, um, about a year and a half ago, I had relationships used to be this thing for me super hard. Like, couldn't figure it out. I had this one guy that I was dating, I blew it up. And then I felt like I was trying to fix it again. And I kept getting this integration like No, you need to wait for your ex. I kept thinking like, Nope, we're gonna get back together. Anytime I tapped into it. Like I had this conversation with you, right? I was like, No, I, I keep trying to let it go and keep saying like, Nope, you need to wait. You need to wait, you need to wait. Now. And I remember my biggest thing is like, what if I was lying to me? What if God's lying to me? Like that was the biggest thing because I was like, everything I do is often the inspiration like this is huge. What if I now the thing that I teach the I live my life? Or what if I don't care this right? And that was my biggest fear. Well, you guys, I spent 13 months holding to this inspiration, even after the guy was like, No, we're not getting back together. I'm with someone else. And I'm like, I feel like a crazy person. Am I still hearing this inspiration? Right? Well, when it came down to it, I ended up with the man that I'm with now, I absolutely love him. But it took me 13 months to prepare for that. And the only thing that would have kept me going that long is if I thought I was so attached to my ex, that I felt like when the inspiration came into weight, my brain made it mean it was going to be this guy. And in the end it didn't. But it still got me there. I think that's another thing with inspiration is like if you look at Joan of Arc, well, what if her brain had to think the king was the most honorable man? God was like he's not. But this is what's gonna happen to take us where we need to go. But I'm okay with her thinking that mean, could God lie to us? I think this is why it's that one step. Like we were talking about going back to that thing that we said a little earlier, that we don't know what we don't know. And with our narrow and this is why we want to create with something that's outside of us, it's higher than us can see things from a different level and see, into the vastness of creation instead of just our limited our limited sight, because there's so many other things going on. Like for my personal thing, I literally am so grateful, my biggest fear to God lie to me, like no, he told me exactly what I needed to hear, to get me to where I needed to go. Because not only did it make it so I could have this beautiful relationship. It changed my mentality with my body. It changed my mentality with my business, God was trying to give me everything. But if you would have, if I literally look back, I'm like, I don't know if I would have pushed through the pain of what I had to do to get to where I wanted to go. If I wasn't so stuck on, he used almost like this flaw that I had that I was so attached to this, which makes me laugh. I literally think about it now I'm like, Oh my gosh, like super grateful. But it's like, again to inspiration following God, it's like you have to be able to not have to hold on to it so tight. Yeah, we want to know, no, you have to tell me exactly what it is. Well, if God would have told me, Hey, no, you're gonna go through two months of excruciating pain, but you're gonna be with someone else. I would have been like, nope, screw this. Screw it. I'm not gonna go through the pain. Why? And so it's like, following the different things again, Joan of Arc, literally. She's, we still talk about her. But if you go read her story, her you would think Did she really hurt God? Absolutely. But the way that she took it was different. Yeah. And it was okay. I think it's okay to let yourself again, because it's figuring it out. Yeah, it's playing and there's a taking you This is where I have a belief that you can't do it wrong. No, you know, and it's like, that is one of those things, the programming that comes over from Christianity and my religion. It's like, there's right, there's wrong, you know, choose the right choose the right choose the right. It's like, well, actually, what if we can't do it wrong, whatever it is just experience and it's like, okay, well, that was fun to go and listen to everything that God said. And now my whole life has imploded. Be okay with that. I was like, okay, cool. You learned something, like letting it go, again, that programming that comes from religion, it's like, no, this is the way you do this, you do this, you do this, then you go to heaven. And it's when you find it's all laid out for you. And this is the thing people will say, Well, what do you know? Like, I don't know what you're talking about? Well, I was like, I don't go, Who do you think God is? I was still to this day. I don't really know. Right? To me, thinking he's like a daddy in the sky is still the most comforting to me. Like, and I joke about that? Do I actually think that's what it is? No, but I also know that my brain can't comprehend exactly what it is. But I have enough of a relationship that I don't have to know. Yeah. Because my biggest thing is like, I thought that I knew in the Mormon religion, I knew. Nope, this is how it is. Right? But because I thought that I knew I was so pigeon holed. I couldn't see anything outside of that. Until you did until I did. Yeah. But like, give yourself grace, go figure it out. Go go make a bunch of messes when you're listening to God. But I will say, out the gate, I mean, you don't have to do this, but be willing to take 100% accountability. Because if you're going to take 100% accountability, and you can't blame anybody else for your decision, you're gonna think about it. Yeah. You're more prone to being like, do I really want to go blow this up? Am I really okay, that I don't get to blame spirit for this? You know, like, I mean, I've seen a lot of things where people like I can't work God tells me not to work cool. Then also take accountability. You might not have no you might have no money. No money. No, but like, Be okay with that and say, I'm choosing into this experience, cuz I want to see where it's going to take me. Yeah, this feels where I'm gonna go and it's like, Okay, then let's do it and do and be okay. It's like, hey, that God can tell you one thing today. And tomorrow, it might be different. Maybe today. No. Tomorrow is like, yeah, get up and go to work. I want to circle back on that piece where it's like when we were talking about the filters that God comes through, especially if you know, it's like, what if that's my five year old self that tells me I'm not worthy. You have anything? So then God, the voice of God that comes through is continuing saying, Yeah, well, you need to stop working. And now you're not worthy of that you need to go find another partner, like a lot of self sabotage can happen. So it's like, to your point of what are the results you're getting when you are listening? And are they getting you what you're wanting and close to where you're wanting to go are further away. Because if they're getting you further away, and they're blowing up your life, then maybe there's a program, some sort of a limiting belief that's underneath there, that's creating a filter so that when you're hearing the voice of God source, whatever, is actually through a program or a filter that you have running, and it's easy to clear it. That's the biggest thing can kind of talk me about like a quick background on like, what it means you got you got what these filters are programmed means your brain is a computer. It's literally programmed just like a computer. Most of your programming happens between the ages of zero and eight. So literally what it means is this little cages or sponge, you watch to see what happens. Right? Okay, this is how the world works. That's why a lot of times people who grew up super poor are like, Oh, everyone's poor, or people who are rich, like no money comes from everywhere. It's not because it's true. Either way. It's just what you decide to take. So when you have a program that's coming in, if you believe you have to do everything that God says, or you're not worthy, which is funny, everyone has that. Oh, yeah, everyone has that one. What happens is I'm lovable. I'm unworthy. Yep. What are some of the other big core ones that most people those are the two that I see the most? Yeah, it's like not worthy, not good enough unlovable. Basically, all the same thing as not being enough. Yeah. And so what happens is, your brain is neutral. It's not like your brain is not mortal. Your brain is not trying to figure out what's good, what's wrong. It literally takes whenever it's programmed. It's literally saying like, your phone has feelings. And it's deciding No, you're pro your phone will literally do whatever it's programmed to do. And to see someone just say like, Well, my phone sabotaging me, it's like, no, your phone, changed the program, your brain is more powerful than a computer. And so when these programs happen, one of the things that does is like if you feel like you're unworthy, your mind will literally go show you the situations or go create the situations to do that. To prove that you're right to prove that you're right. So let's say you believe that I'm gonna save money because this is an easy one. Let's say you grew up your dad invested his money, he lost it. So you have this belief that if you go invest money, you're going to lose it. Well, your brain literally is looking for those experiences to show it so you're gonna feel massive pull to something, your conscious mind, which is what you're aware with subconscious means it's below consciousness. You're not aware of it, you'll fill these polls to go do something. And then when it blows up, you're like, What? What happened? But your brain is like, look, we made your true you're not crazy. We did our job. We did our job. And it's just because there's a programming that's why when you understand how your brain works, this is the same thing in relationships, right? Why do you feel pulled to the you know? Yeah, and you'll watch someone who literally dates the same person right different face every single time. Yeah, it's because their unconscious mind oh my gosh, I love them so much. It's like no, your brain saying hey, that person is going to show you're unlovable because that's what you believe. You're welcome. I proved you right just proves you right. You didn't know that you're carrying this but your results are showing your outer world is actually showing this and this leads into you and your business partner Amanda have an upcoming training because you guys T Yes, we do. You speak to that? Because you and I have learned a shit ton from both of you and your amazing teachers. Well, thank you. Um, yeah, so I'm a master NLP practitioner. NLP is neuro linguistic programming. The best way they can describe it, it's brain reprogramming, going in and programming your brain, the way that a computer and bring to light those those programs. And that right there is like, oh, my gosh, it your world shifts when you start seeing all the things you're like, I didn't even know that was this. Yeah. So basically, this is a, if this is something that you want to do for yourself, or specifically, if you want to go in and help other people is literally going in and figuring out how does your brain work? How do the programs in your brain work? And how do you reprogram them, so you can actually start having different results. Most of the time 95% of what's going on is subconscious, which means you're not aware of it. And most of your behaviors are running off of the subconscious programs that are happening between the ages of zero and eight. That's why when people leave religion, and they're like, I don't want to do this anymore. Well, they were programmed from a young age, this is how the world works. So they take those same programs, right? You just have to listen to God. Okay, cool. Well, you just have to listen to God here and you're not in religion anymore. And so now it's like, how what do I do now? And so basically, we go in we teach you how your brain works, how your emotions work, why you feel the way that you feel, why you're pulled to things, and more importantly, how to break it. Yeah, because I think the biggest thing fast that's what's so cool. That's the thing that I love and I wish I can like shout it from the rooftops as you guys in this might make some of you angry at me to be angry when I finally figured this out. And actually one thing that my clients tell me all the same time healing is not hard, and it's fast. And that does doesn't mean that what you've gone through isn't valid. And it doesn't mean you're not going to still feel things. But when you're ready to change, your brain can change instantaneously. Because if your brain is more powerful than a computer, which there's go look up the studies, it says that it is. How fast can you uninstall an app on your phone? Super fast? And how easy is it? And how easy is it? To know how to do it? Literally, it's dark. Yeah, you just have to know how to do it when you're changing beliefs, like not being worthy not being enough. I've seen that time and time again, is within five minutes. Yeah, maybe eight to 10. Yeah, you get it. And you can change it because you're re changing the way that your brain works. Yeah. And so these programs when you're coming in, it's like really being aware of how are you wanting this new world to go and are your natural behaviors, and the way that you're showing up supporting it, and if it's not, that's a program in your brain. So programming your brain, and you have to just switch it and change it. And I wouldn't say any, like any training that I've ever done first and foremost has been for me, like that's the thing. That's what I love about anything, any modality that I've learned, any training that I've that I've done, yes, I use it in my practice. But I first and foremost, it was for me, we practice what we preach. So if you are listening, and you are someone that's like, I don't know, I want to learn more. But in order to go, man and Michelle's class is probably like, that's a great step. Because you you guys actually give it three different certificates by the time they're done. Yep. And energy healing in NLP practitioner. And what's the third? Um, you get that energy, Haley and coaching. Yeah. So it's freaking brilliant. It's amazing. And you two are phenomenal teachers. So this first because it's a three part. It's like not is it nine months long? Um, is it bitmap? Six? About six? Yeah. And the first class just because you get to integrate and get to practice. Most trainings are like that. Yeah, they should be. But you this this next upcoming I mean, it's coming up here pretty quick. Yeah, end of October. It's the 25th to the 28th. Perfect. So I will link your website down below because it's what is it? So phrenic collected? What's the forward slash? Easy? When did you get this? So code.org? No, code.com? Yeah, that was too long. I will make sure to link it down below. But yeah, that just I gotta like, plug that a little bit. Because it's great to talk about that. I mean, I get on talking about spirit stuff, because it's like my favorite. No, and you're my good friends. We need to talk about this. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. No, this is really fun. And hopefully, I mean, I really hope that if you're in the middle of it, you have no clue. If God talks to you, if God is talking to you any Filipina abusive relationship, boundaries, surrounding more questions, and then inspired action. Yeah, yeah, you could have boundaries with like, like us, you are creating your life. Now. This is you are now stepping into the driver's seat. You are co creating with spirit, but you get to have boundaries. Yeah, you get to decide what this gets to look like. And it's okay. You're not a bad person. If you're saying no, I'm not going to do that. Right. Why? Because I'm not willing to cheat on my husband. I'm not willing to do the shady thing, even though I feel inspired to do this. Like, no, these are, these are my values. This is my integrity. And this is the boundary and it's okay to do that. Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree. And I think that's something that the reason why I want to talk about this is because I don't it's not talked about now most people think you can't have boundaries have gone like Absolutely. Oh, sure. It actually makes your life really amazing. Yeah. And you actually start to have like, you actually feel like you're actually driving your car. Instead of like being this whirlwind of like, spiritual craziness. Follow? What's the sign like God take the wheel. And there's truth in some of that sometimes, but for the most part, it's like, no, you're driving still. You're still driving. And usually God take the wheel, it's stuff you should have your hands on anyways. Usually, when it's Jesus take the wheel, it's like, you're like, Hey, I'm gonna let my mom go. I'm not going to try to control my husband. I'm not going to try to control my kid. Right? You should never had your hand on that. Well, anyway, right. So it's like good awareness that you were doing that now. Let's go let go. Yeah. And I usually when I hear those things, which I love that it's like, I just let Jesus handle I'm like, Oh, your child that you can't control manipulate. Yeah, you should have never been trained. That's a good place to let them go. Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you. Yes. I love you dearly love. Yeah. Wasn't that a fantastic conversation, I really, really enjoyed it. And as Michelle was mentioning, they have a beautiful training coming up, head over to their website thus, so Co s o c. o.org not.com. It's the CIO code.org. To get more information about what Michelle does what Amanda and her both do together and their upcoming training that really truly is beautiful. They have both been really beautiful friends to me, but also amazing teachers and there have been things that I have learned that have impacted my life greatly, like life changing things. So if you're in that place and you're debating about this head over their website, go check out the recent their upcoming training that's coming up I think it's like less than two weeks now and get some more information there. And if you are looking for more tools to assist you and winding out of religion, you guys it is a process so be Be patient with yourself, give yourself grace, understand that it's, you're unwinding years and years of programming years and years of beliefs that you've had. And it's natural and normal for it to take some time some people go quicker than others and it doesn't, your processes your process. So if you're looking for more ways to assist you head to Amazon, go pick up my latest book leaving religion and those we leave behind. If you've searched that in Amazon, I think too if you just searched my name Amanda Loveland, it also comes up, I will link it down below as well. But the guide book that I wrote really is a guidebook, there are exercises that you do in the book that you actually get to write in, you go through different somatic experiences, that just with what I'm cueing you into in the book, and it's really powerful, it's, it's actually quite a simple book, but it's really impactful. Also, I have my guided meditations that are kind of turned into a course there's four different modules that take you through somatic experiences to really unwind the energetics of the binding the covenants, the things that you've made within that religion that may be impeding your views, it may be filtering, how you are seeing the world, how you're communicating with God, your intuition, your higher self, all of those pieces. Oftentimes, what I find with my clients is there's a little bit of resonance and a little bit of energetic blocking that needs to be cleared. So I recorded these meditations so you could do them on your own, they're powerful, they really are life changing, I highly recommend them head to my website, Amanda loveland.com forward slash leaving religion tools. And last but not least, if you are feeling called to share tools that you have learned that have been really impactful in your life or even just sharing your story out of religion from a place of non judgment and non attacking please reach out to me you can go to my Instagram Amanda Joy Loveland. It's Amanda dot Joy dot Loveland and message me there, or go to my website, hit the podcast tab, and you'll see that there's a form about halfway down the page to apply to be on my podcast as I as you already listened, I'm ramping it back up. I'm really excited to have some amazing guests and with love, if you feel are feeling the call to be on this episode or on an episode, then reach out. And as always know that you're not alone. This is why I'm doing this podcast is just to remind us all that we are in this together. We are more when we're united when we're more heart centered and heart LED. Man Can we make a difference and an impact in the world? So know that you're not alone. We're here I'm here. And I hope today you are having a beautiful day and you can see the beauty and all things in life. Sending you all so much love