The Process of Healing
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The Process of Healing
Murder Mystery: Exploring the Tragic Case of Crystal Turner and Kylan Schulte
Special gift for all of YOU!!!! Today Surviving Podcast is releasing the episode of the new YouTube Channel/Podast that I am apart of called, Speculating Wildy About Crime. I would love for you to check it out and download/share/subscribe The case I am covering is very close to my heart and I would love your thoughts!
Could unresolved mental health issues and homophobia lead to a horrifying double murder? In our deep dive into the mysterious case of Crystal Turner and Kylan Shultane, we tackle this troubling hypothesis. As two queer women whose lives were brutally cut short in Moab, Utah, Crystal and Kylan's story was initially overshadowed, but why? . With speculation of the possible involvement of Gabby Petito's murderer, Brian Laundrie, this narrative takes many unexpected turns. We unearth the couple's personal histories, struggles with drug addiction, and experiences with sexual violence, while paying homage to their love story and passion for the outdoors.
We take a closer look at the ongoing investigation into the murders, weaving together the sparse threads of information that have been released by authorities. Among the potential suspects, we introduce you to John Freeman Colts, a convicted sexual predator who escaped from a prison psych ward. The lens of mental health is brought into focus as we consider whether it could have had a role in this tragic event.
Switching gears, we evaluate the Vanlife community and its apparent lack of safety and inclusivity for the queer demographic. Scrutinizing the potential connections between Crystal, Kylan, and Gabby, we delve into the world of Adam, a coworker of Crystal's at McDonald's, who is a suspect in the double homicide. We explore his potential motives, mental health issues, and the compelling evidence against him. Through this, we aim to spotlight the urgent need for enhanced security measures and inclusivity in the Vanlife community and beyond. Join us for this remarkable journey into a heartbreaking narrative that needs to be shared.
Just a reminder to our Speculating Wildly About Crime listeners. This is for entertainment purposes only and solely the thoughts and opinions of our team. We do invite you to sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Speculating Wildly About Crime, the podcast that delves into the most intriguing and puzzling criminal cases. And boy do I have a doozy for you all today. I'm your host, david, joined by all these lovely ladies that are going to speculate along with me. First, I want to say that I get to spend every Thursday in Zoom with all of my friends. How great is my life. Before we get started, I want to say that, with everything that we have going on, I love each of you.
Speaker 3:Thanks, David.
Speaker 2:So before we get started, I want to throw my references out there. There are abundance of hours of different random podcasts Wikipedia, murderpedia, discovery, wops Blog, fox News, marie Claire Magazine and the Mile Hire Podcast and YouTube channel. I want to give a shout out to them. Have you all seen or heard of them? The Mile Hire? They're amazing. I love them. Check them out. They are so fax and they do the work. Check them out. So I want to give them a shout out, because I have listened to their podcast about the case we're covering today a million times. Today we're embarking on a deep dive into the haunting story of Crystal Turner and Kylan Shultane, two individuals whose lives were tragically cut short. Are you all familiar with this case at all?
Speaker 4:I am yeah, not a lot.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I can, I wanted to come into this cold David, and I wanted to learn so much from you.
Speaker 2:This case shook the nation, capturing widespread attention with its heart-wrenching details. As a news outlet reported on the disappearance of the couple, the mystery only deepened, However. What struck many was the limited media coverage in the beginning of the case, leaving the community to questions of maybe potential biases Amongst the secluded location where the crime took place. There's a growing concern that the absence of the media attention could be connected to the fact that Crystal and Kylan were members of the LGBTQIA community. What actually caused these thoughts is the fact that during the same timeframe of the double homicide, another murder took place in the same location. The case that most are familiar with is the murder of Gabby Batino. Because of the connection, some even thought that Brian Laundrie, who murdered Gabby, was somehow involved, but we'll discuss throughout the episode, so put a pin in that. Before I get into the case, I want to spend a little bit of time talking about these two beautiful ladies. Those ladies unfortunately had a drug addiction and were victims of sexual violence. As well as the tragic loss of loved ones, they also battled with mental health, but through their trials and tribulations, they found each other and they were only known to be happy and in love. Kylan lost a baby. I'm not 100% sure of this, but I believe the baby was a little girl who she named Blake. Not much was said on this topic, but I'm thinking with what I was able to piece together that this was a still-worn birth. Kylan also had a younger brother that she was extremely close to. They were besties. He went by Mackie In 2015,.
Speaker 2:Mackie was playing a joke on his 17-year-old friend at around 2.30 am by knocking on his friend's bedroom window. Mackie then got a center block to boost himself up and his 17-year-old friend fired a gun and shot and killed him. This was determined to be a justifiable shooting. Even the Schulte family believed that it was just a horrible prank gone wrong and there was no heart feelings toward the 17-year-old. Mackie is buried with Kylan's baby girl at Yellowstone Cemetery, so the Schulte family is no stranger to trauma. Sean Paul Schulte, who we will continue to discuss throughout this episode, but he's probably the most amazing father that I've ever heard. He was even photographed hugging the 17-year-old that shot his son at his son's funeral.
Speaker 2:Due to this loss, kylan couldn't bear staying in the area that held so many horrible memories and she chose to move from Montana to Moab, utah, and this is where she met Crystal Turner. Crystal had lost her father at a very young age and was known to be a tomboy. She was tough, but always had a smile on her face. The couples bond, grew through their challenges that they had faced together and separately, and so they met in 2019, married in April of 2021, and it's so cute Like they exchanged their vows at a glass tree house, which is stunning, at Crystal's home in Arkansas. Until, age 38, and Kylan, age 24,.
Speaker 2:At the time of their murders, both loved the outdoors and planned to camp and sleep in their van, at least for a little while. Both ladies enjoyed the van life, which is a real thing, like Gabby and Brian. That's even the life that they were living and actually documenting, which was another connection to this case. So in Moab, this is very popular. So there's a few facts that I want to give you guys, just to keep in the back of your mind. Moab is a town of 5,000 people, but around 3 million visitors per year. In 2018, kylan started working at a local grocery slash health food store called Moonflower, and Crystal worked at McDonald's, which was downtown Moab, and they were close to each other. I feel like I know them now, after researching them and diving so hard into this and, of course, this kind of situation with the LGBTQIA community, it weighs on me.
Speaker 2:So on the eve of Kylan's 25th birthday, crystal and Kylan met up with some friends at a local tavern. It was August 13, 2021, and the newlyweds were enjoying just a relaxing evening with friends, laughs and coronas and with the chat that they were having, the conversation kind of turned to their living situation because their van had broke down. During this conversation, crystal and Kylan mentioned something peculiar to their friends. They spoke about a strange man who had approached their campsite and howling like a wolf. Crystal talked about how she playfully just howled back and this caused the man to get back at his car, drive off, leave. However, a short while later the man returned with his belongings and groceries and set up camp like very close to them, almost uncomfortably close. Although the couple found the situation to be odd, they were not overly concerned with that.
Speaker 1:Was it at an actual campsite or was it like closing boundaries and like broke rules?
Speaker 2:What I pictured in my mind is where Moab people go there for this kind of thing to camp out. There's all these different like natural park areas to camp, but there's just, I guess, maybe like this unspoken rule of you, allow so much space.
Speaker 1:Got it Okay. So there's not like designated areas, you're in lot six or four, it's just nature. Everybody goes Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you and I can go there when you're better at camp, side by side, but if you're a stranger, there's just that unspoken space that you just allow, and he was not respecting that.
Speaker 1:Plus the howling yeah, maybe he was Teen Wolf. Maybe, I appreciate you telling me that, because I, unlike Dana and not I'm not one with the nature, so I don't understand what they're telling their friends this story and they're comical about it, but their friends are sensing potential danger.
Speaker 2:Their friends actually suggested that Chris so I'm calling sleep in another friend's van overnight. The couple was already planning on packing up and leaving the next morning anyways, so they declined the offer and joked about just keeping a close eye on this man. As the night was coming to an end, chris and Kylin were saying their goodbyes to their friends at Woody's Bar, and they playfully mentioned that if they don't show up to work the next few days, someone should look for them. Little did their friends know those words would hold more weight than they could ever imagine.
Speaker 5:They said their van was broken down. So what was their plan to leave the next day if they had a broken down van?
Speaker 2:Great question. I actually have this in my notes because I spent about 48 hours searching just this. So they owned a motorcycle, which doesn't play a part in this story. They owned a Kia like an SUV I think it's like the Sorento and then they had the Black Van which was their van life living. So they had a car, their Kia that actually ran. A word, the van that they lived in is the one that broke down. So we're at the point where we're going to discuss Crystal and Kylin missing.
Speaker 2:When Crystal fell to report to work to her shift on Sunday and then again on Monday, her manager grew concerned. She didn't grow too concerned on Sunday because they had just recently had a conversation that they wanted to start going back to church, and so she wanted Sundays off. And so the manager was like why just a miscommunication? She probably thought I had the shift covered because she was going to church, not realizing I need you to finish the schedule out first and then going forward. When she didn't show up on Monday, she's like okay, this isn't the church Sunday miscommunication thing. I'm concerned.
Speaker 2:Kylin also did not show up at her shift, which prompted further worry. Kylin's father was notified about both girls not showing up for their shifts, and he immediately took to social media and I know that we can all be like, oh, I hate social media, I hate social media, but this is one of the times it was used the way it should be and it worked. Because of the distance and financial situations, the father was like all I can do right now posts on social media. And that's what he did, and he was pleading for someone to just give him some kind of something about his daughter and daughter-in-law, kylin, began actually searching for the missing couple.
Speaker 2:Unsure of where to start. It was Cindy Sue Hunter, a friend of Crystal and Kylin, who took matters into her own hands. After searching around for four hours, she stumbled upon a campsite and, unfortunately, she made a horrible discovery. She found the Kia Sarento that belonged to the two women. Cindy Sue Hunter saw the tent and saw the Therapeut Rabbit named Ruth was in the cage inside the tent, with no water and no food.
Speaker 3:But it was okay, ruth was okay.
Speaker 2:Ruth was okay, but Ruth was neglected and this is completely out of the norm. I just think the name Ruth, this little rabbit, is so cute, but like it is on record that this rabbit went everywhere and was everything to them, like the thought of this rabbit not having food and water is that's not what they would do. Cindy Sue immediately called the police to inform them of their findings and then she called father Sean Paul. While talking to Sean Paul, she came across a creek and while on the phone with Kylin's father, she found Kylin's body. Sean Paul immediately told her get back in your car. He was afraid that the killer was still out there. But Cindy gets back in her car. She called the police to notify them of her surroundings and while Cindy Sue waited for police that took over an hour to get to her one car passed. They stopped, stared at her and then sped off. Once the police got there, they began their search and within just a little bit of ways, in the same crate, they found Crystal's body.
Speaker 2:The Grand County Sheriff's Office immediately launched a full scale investigation into the double murder, hoping to find answers and bring the perpetrators to justice. Law enforcement issued a press release seeking the public's help in providing any information related to the case and stating that they did not believe anyone else is in danger. But this also made people feel a little weird. If you don't know what happened to these women there's two people murdered, but you don't think anyone else is in danger what are you not telling them so immediately? It was causing red flags right. So, in their search for evidence, authorities obtained a warrant to access self-in-records and pings from Verizon. The details that were released shocked the community even further. Both women were found partially in dress from waist down. One of them's one of them. Their shirt and bra was pulled up over their breasts, so exposing the breasts, and multiple bullet wounds were found in their chest, their back and the size of their body.
Speaker 3:Wait what.
Speaker 2:You probably can't tell from it, but almost like it was like maybe an execution style type thing or that's what I hate about this case and one of the points that I want to make that I feel like I already touched on a little bit. There's a lot, a lot about it, and everybody that has said anything about it has been saying that is it because of the same sex couple.
Speaker 3:You also said that they. I can't remember if you said they had struggled with addiction, or were they?
Speaker 2:had? Yes, they had, and so Were now clean. So I did not find on record where they had done drugs and battled with the addiction together. So what I was able to piece together, what my thoughts are, is in their younger years, through their traumas, they battled the addiction they recovered from that. I don't find anything on record that during their time together as a couple that drugs played a factor into that.
Speaker 3:So how many like approximately how many times were each of them shot?
Speaker 2:Both six times.
Speaker 1:And to go back to the drug thing, was there any record of there being any kind of paraphernalia that was found at their campsite or in their cars or anything? Okay, but, we did not believe drugs.
Speaker 3:So back to the Nikki Vander Hayden of it all overkill like six times.
Speaker 1:That's immediately what I thought when you said that. I was like, yeah, how many bullets does a gun hold? That's a good question, Nat.
Speaker 5:Do you know what kind of gun? It was? Like a handgun or a rifle.
Speaker 3:Oh, we're about to make David stress out a lot. I was like, where is?
Speaker 2:he? No, that's actually the next part I was about to talk about and forgive me, listeners, y'all, I'm so sorry I don't go gun talk. I actually Googled words to make sure I was pronounced and then we could roll.
Speaker 1:I'll bless your heart. I love it.
Speaker 2:I've practiced this over and over because I wanted it to just flow. It's not going to, so forgive me, but so during the autopsies, the doctors recovered fired bullets, including a full metal jacket, and a quantity critical defense rounds designed to inflict maximum damage, both in nine millimeters.
Speaker 5:So nine millimeters, typically a handgun.
Speaker 2:Ballistic tests show the rounds are likely fired from a Glock handgun. I don't know what that is. Are there different types of handguns?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, there's only one, only one.
Speaker 1:Were it a handgun or a shotgun.
Speaker 4:How much easier would make it for detactors to solve crimes if there was just one type of gun. It never, takes the same bullet.
Speaker 6:Fair enough, you're wrong, but I think those usually have and this is also me not knowing much about guns, but those usually have a magazine or a clip or whatever, and so they could potentially have more than six, I believe, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, from what I can tell, I didn't Google and research or even Google image search like pictures of a gun. But yes, but maybe think could it hold 12? And so it was like six here and six here, because six and six almost seems calculated to me.
Speaker 1:But you will have to reload. I just Google it and it holds 15. Oh, it does hold 15. Okay, so you won't have to reload.
Speaker 3:So it's not a hunting gun, correct?
Speaker 6:It should be like a defense used for defense or, I think, not hunting, please, officers can carry Glocks.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:They maybe make them in pink. You could put them in your purse, for I feel like they're bigger, just like bulkier, but again, so no much. Hey, how big is a Glock?
Speaker 2:What I did find interesting, though, that I learned which anything about a gun would be breaking information. I'm learning it, but so these I did not know. There's like critical defense quantity bullets or something, and so like their job is to go in, but then they like spread almost. It makes me think of like those things that you put into a sheetrock when you want to hold a nail. What are those things called?
Speaker 3:Oh anchor.
Speaker 2:Anchor.
Speaker 3:Anchor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, it almost means that like they're supposed to go in and spread and that way it causes, like the internal, like damage.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what? Those things that everybody has a drawer of but you never have used?
Speaker 5:one and Farnity is like the brand name of the bullet.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, yeah, okay, you're really good at this.
Speaker 5:I don't know if that's a compliment, but I'll take it. You're like bae, it's a compliment. I am a hunter, so oh, that's right. Yes, I have rifles and handguns myself.
Speaker 2:Oh, so did I explain it correctly.
Speaker 5:Yes, sounds good to me. I'm not an expert. I have them. I'm not claiming to be an expert, Did I?
Speaker 2:re-record, because my whole plan of what my note says is saying this very stern, very man voice, and I did not do that shall we record. But to get back to the autopsy, what also was determined, which I guess is a good thing considering, is that the women were not assaulted sexually, contrary to the first thoughts, due to the way that they were half dressed and exposed.
Speaker 3:So was it just like a humiliation thing?
Speaker 4:Put a pin in that. That's what I was thinking, because I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have another thought on what it could be when we get to there.
Speaker 3:Or something to throw people off of who committed this. Ooh, I like that. Yeah, another yeah.
Speaker 2:I think, and please remember all those thoughts, because I want you to remember that when we get into the suspects of things, because I got my handful of pins.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like that. So we turned to mods. No suspects have been named and this was the only thing that was being publicized is hate crime. You have a lesbian couple, so now we're gonna get into a little bit of like speculations slash suspects. Okay, so, due to the lack of information released, the community started speculating, naturally on their own. One person that immediately came to mind within the community, which is such an interesting story that I think we need to maybe dive in on one day, is John Freeman Colts. Have you all heard this thing before? John is a convicted sexual predator that girls. Okay, he broke out of a prison psych ward by dressing up as a doctor, telling a new work that he was a new doctor to the prison and needed help finding his way out. Wow, he's smart. That was pretty good.
Speaker 1:So, but it worked. Gives me Ted Bundy vibes, Wait hang on have we found this guy.
Speaker 2:Okay, so he was to believed to be camping out at National Parks in Utah and or Colorado. He was arrested again in September of 2021 in Utah, but he's murders. The same time, but police was able to quickly determine that he's not a person of interest.
Speaker 3:I could go down a whole rabbit hole on just this. When did he break out, like, how was? How long was he out?
Speaker 2:He was out, I want to say for a few weeks, Like that, like to the point of traveling around between a couple of states, like like his breakout was successful, but he was arrested again in 2021 in Utah, which is the same, and I don't know if it was Moab or just real close too, cause Moab's small, but it was still like a part of the national. So of course are like this happened on this date. We're finding on this date, you could have been here on this date. So that was the speculation of it all. And of course, like media was releasing, like John Freeman colds broke out of prison and he could be in a town near you, and so of course, people's minds will be like this sexual printer broke out. At the time, they're thinking these two girls were sexually assaulted because of the way they were exposed and and.
Speaker 3:Right, but it's not his MO If they were not actually assaulted.
Speaker 4:Hold up question. He broke out obviously before the girls were murdered, like a couple of weeks or whatever before, and this was like probably headline news that he was free.
Speaker 2:So if this was so crazy, is Gabby, these girls and four other cases in Moab of national park murders and rapes and all these things were. I'm like what the fuck? What?
Speaker 3:is going on in.
Speaker 2:Moab.
Speaker 3:Do we have to close the national parks Like there? We could do a totally different show about just national park murders.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I think nothing good to do that happens in the woods.
Speaker 3:That rhymes the Mara Murray of it all. Nothing good happens in the woods.
Speaker 4:I need to ask Okay, so he was a convicted like sexual predator, sexual predator. So my question is if he got out let's say he gets out and it's news everywhere around that area and it's he's a sexual predator. Maybe that's why their clothes look like they did, because somebody was trying to stage it and make it look like a sexual predator because they weren't actually assaulted. So maybe somebody was staging it to look like the sexual. Maybe this guy who busted out did it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:I mean, and that kind of makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like a copycat.
Speaker 3:Is there anything about? I don't know if they could tell if they were undressed before they were shot or after, based on like blood patterns or whatever.
Speaker 4:Don't you have that gun residue on your clothes or like a hole in them? You'd have the hole, but you could always put the. I don't know, but you definitely have gun residue on your clothes, I would assume.
Speaker 6:But you might have that either way, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, depending on how close the clothes were to the body, the gun residue could still fall, whether they were on or off, right or maybe not. Dana, how far does gun residue go?
Speaker 5:I mean, if you're shooting a gun, you can get gun residue on you because there's gunpowder in the bullet. So when it goes off it's like poof and they kill. Well, because the bullet part is wedged in there. Because when you fire a gun the brass part is what falls out, so there's two parts. So the gunpowder in there is what combusts and pushes out the bullet. So that's why it's like a poof and that residue floats around. If you will, I believe it's like within six to 10 feet maybe. If you're within that space, you can get that gun residue on you.
Speaker 3:So another question, for I guess I'm just gonna go to Dana again Is it Glock? Typically, I would assume it's like a closer range. Yeah, it's definitely.
Speaker 5:I would consider like rifle shotguns to be more long range because you think about like the barrel length.
Speaker 3:It's like like there's a scope on it or something. There's not a scope, but there's sights usually, which is kind of a torture. I love how she's talking to us like we're kindergartners, as we are. No, she's good at this.
Speaker 5:Come on, at the end of the barrel it's like a U shape, and then, closer towards where your eye is, it's like a little stick, because then you wanna line up a little stick in between the U shape because that means that you're aiming correctly rather than just hopefully it's that direction, like what we would all do. I think Cindy was saying like it's more of a self-defense thing.
Speaker 2:So both bodies were found in water and they had been there for many hours, up to 24, maybe 48. So would that affect, like the gun powder residue or anything like that? Is it washed up? Can it be just washed off? It can wash off.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I mean it's just, it's like powder, right?
Speaker 3:So if you wash your hands, it's gonna come off of your in water, were they submerged, or like when you say creek, I think of something like I could walk through if I needed to.
Speaker 1:You could be submerged if you're laying horizontally.
Speaker 2:And another thing that they said and of course this is speculation coming from the cops, but they're thinking where there was such a wide gap between the two ladies that when one was shot and killed and I think it was crystal, yeah, crystal was further down that she tried to run away and that's why they were a little separated.
Speaker 4:You would say that they were shot in the back. Both of them were shot in the back.
Speaker 2:So they and again, this is what I freaking hate about this case it says six bullets, six bullets. They were shot in. They were shot in the back and side. Shot back and side, but it doesn't say oh, if it was, who got what? Where I speculating with? Think that maybe crystal with, maybe her running away, that's where the back shot came in and maybe when it hit her she turned, he shot again.
Speaker 5:And also, I'm not sure if they said it anywhere, but did they find any brass at the scene? Because those would be like the cartridges that get ejected each time you shoot. So if there's more than 15, it's reasonable to say that it had to be reloaded or they would have had to have a second clip on them.
Speaker 2:I looked and I did not find anything about that.
Speaker 5:But if they were in water, then they could have been swept away too.
Speaker 3:I know that you're probably gonna talk about this later, but is it a spoiler alert if we talk about did we like the police in this situation or no?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go with no.
Speaker 3:I'm just wondering, like how hard did they look for? That's what I was thinking too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm almost there with some things that we'll discuss, but again, I don't think this is a spoiler alert. My opinion is, when you put Gabby's case and these two girls beside each other, cops, and on this one they're like I'll let you know when I know something. I don't know anything and it breaks my heart, but if there is an offense, I would think that it would be. This is a town of a population of 5,000, but they also have millions of people in and out.
Speaker 4:They have a national park.
Speaker 1:That's where all the murders happen. No excuse.
Speaker 3:You gotta have a whole task force for that.
Speaker 1:Look at like a Las Vegas and I know it's not like a great comparison, but they have a population of X and they have a tourist population of Y, right Like they have a bigger police force because they have a tourist population of Y.
Speaker 5:When you said that the police were like, oh no, like isolated incident, everything's fine. Nobody looked this way.
Speaker 1:I have to wonder of they're like oh, it's two women. The thing that irritates me about true crime the most and I'll say it again and again, you'll hear me say it a million times is and it's no fault to the police and I've been on the police side and off the police side you all have seen me on both sides so it's no fault to them. But a lot of times they do know who did it, or they know, they are very close to knowing who did it, but they cannot release anything to the public because, a they're still waiting on some evidence to come through or, b they don't have enough evidence to get somebody and be able to say that publicly. I think of the Brian Coburger, of it all. They made that same statement to the public and everybody said how can you possibly know? They fucking knew, but they needed all of these other things to line up to be able to publicly say it. So it could have been a little bit of hey, we're dealing with this LGBTQIA couple and that's why we're gonna throw it under the rug.
Speaker 1:But I honestly come for me if you think I'm wrong think it was more of. We have an idea of who this is and who it was, but we just can't come all the way public with it yet and that irks the shit out of me, and I think there's so many unsolved cases. I think there's more about more of that we don't know. There's more about a Brian Schaefer that we don't know and we just never will. So just wanted to make that plug because I think there is a lot of that going on and I think I'm gonna come for the police a lot, but I think we come for the police a little bit too much and don't always understand that aspect of it.
Speaker 6:Just because they're not giving us information doesn't mean they don't have it. 1000%.
Speaker 4:And they have to protect their asses.
Speaker 4:It makes sense. Yeah, it's PYA. Yeah, it reminds me of Delphi, when they didn't really say much about, but it drove us all nuts. That was one of the cases that I really wanted solved and it was driving me nuts. But at the same time I'm like I would prefer them keeping everything so close-chested that when they do actually send him to trial, like that, he is awake, like the list also. Yeah, I understand why they have to keep some things. I just it's Joseph DiAngelo. Yeah, they know. It's they're just trying to, and they're just trying to find any kind of evidence to nail the POS that does some stupid crime like that. I'm all about it.
Speaker 6:Just wish they could have some type of code, word or something to say, hey, we got this covered, we're just trying to get more evidence.
Speaker 4:We don't know who did it, but when we do, you'll know. When we know.
Speaker 5:Especially when it comes to minorities in various forms, I always keep an eyebrow raised because hopefully they're doing their job, but it's just hard to tell sometimes. I think it's totally fair to say that they definitely probably know more.
Speaker 2:So now we have a local, moa Mann, whose name has not been released. He was actually pulled over by a cop the day after Crystal and Callan were reported missing. The cop that pulled him over said that he didn't want to give this unnamed man a ticket because he didn't want to turn his back toward him. He just got this uneasy feeling and he was like, okay, just go.
Speaker 3:That's concerning that in the handbook. Please don't let these people go.
Speaker 2:The bodies of the two women were found a day or so later. So the police was able to get a search warrant for the unnamed man and searchers caught. Turns out this guy worked at the same company that Callan worked that grocery store, the moon flower but they didn't work there at the same time. However, he began working there and was hired a day after they were reported missing. Isn't that crazy? So surveillance shows that, and witnesses that work at the grocery store did state that he, before he worked there, would frequent the store and at one point he gave a different girl that worked there like a red rose.
Speaker 2:The police said that he seemed to have mental issues that were untreated, but he had a cleaning record. He told the police that he had nothing to do with the murders but he couldn't give an alibi, and assured that he had nothing against the gays. He told the police that he sleeps in his car not too far from the actual crime scene, and that his blanket would still be on the dirt road. The police searched and found the blanket and a jacket. The jacket appeared to have blood on. It Turns out the blood was not relevant to the case and the unnamed man was clean.
Speaker 3:Do we know whose blood it was?
Speaker 1:But they did confirm it wasn't the blood of the two women.
Speaker 2:They did confirm that.
Speaker 5:And with his alibi, he wasn't able to provide one because he refused to say what he was doing, or he couldn't provide one because he didn't know what he was doing, or he provided one, but it was just like oh, I was in the ones by myself.
Speaker 2:I don't think that one was provided, I think, what again? Speculating with context, clues and articles, but I'm thinking that where they were like, oh, he has untreated mental illness, and they were giving him dates and times, I think they wrote it off as mental illness.
Speaker 3:But still can you test the blood?
Speaker 2:And I think they did because they were able to say that that's true, but I see where your mind's working with that, because why don't I have details?
Speaker 1:But I go back to if they're holding on to something. I feel like if they did know something about him, like if they thought it was somebody else's blood, they would try to get him on something else. I'm going to go back to the Brian Kohlberger of it all when they tried to catch him for speeding or catch him for switching a lane too fast, to try and do anything to get him. So I feel like if they did truly believe he was having any kind of faulty behavior, they would have tried to do something like that.
Speaker 2:And maybe you're right, because if the cop was on record saying I did not want to turn my back on this guy like was on record before the bodies were even discovered Saying that and then he was like oh wait, I pulled this guy over and it was a little weird. And then now he found two bodies and it's around the same time, that would have been just a viable reason, right? That could have been the reason for them to be like no, let's dig further.
Speaker 1:I wasn't part of the Moramori case today. I was doing some editing on it. And one thing you said, david, and that kind of rings true to what we're talking about right now it's sometimes when you have an unsolved case and you have these people that you don't quite know who did it. You do ingress best draws is probably the wrong word but you look for anything to piece that together, right? Hey, there's these dead bodies. This guy was a little weird when I made a stop. That must be tied together, right, when it could very well be two separate instances Human nature. I think we would all do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To an extent. Ok, do you remember the lady that we discussed, cindy Lou Hunter, the one that actually found the body?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So time has passed and Cindy Sue gets sonified by police that she is now a suspect. So in their defense, she's the one that found the bodies. She's on the phone with dad and she's my intuition told me to come here and I found the bodies. That's probably if you find the body, you're going to be the first suspect.
Speaker 3:And she was one of their friends, right.
Speaker 2:Correct, ok. And father was posting like someone please help me. And she was like these are my friends, I'm going to go help. I've had conversations with them, I know the area that they're last in right, so of course she's naturally going to be. But I guess in her mind, or at least in my mind, is why wasn't she from the beginning? Why did all this time pass? And now all of a sudden you're a suspect and so they contact her. They're like, hey, you're a suspect, they get her phone, they search it. There's this heart-wrenching interview that she's in and she's.
Speaker 2:I already had PTSD from finding my friend's body and then this happened, and it wasn't that they were questioning me because it was recent and I found the bodies it was weeks later. Now they're saying I did it and it was traumatic. Luckily, within no time she was cleared, ok. So now, before we get into the last, maybe this will be a good time to talk about Gabby and Brian, because I knew that through conversation that we had off-record, everyone was like when I mentioned their names it was like, oh, brian and Gabby. So some of you all are familiar with this connection. So you all want to give any thoughts or anything on this part before I go into it.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to throw a wild speculation out there. It's probably not true.
Speaker 1:But I don't know, if you all remember, my son was obsessed with this case too and came on here and talked to us about this and throughout this speculation and it's not 100% crazy, right? So basically there could be a serial killer that killed this couple, that then killed Gabby, that then was after Brian, and maybe that's why Brian ultimately unalived himself, because he just couldn't deal with it anymore. It's probably not the case, but definitely feasible. These people are killed within days of each other, hours maybe even. It's so crazy to me to think that these two people are in the same park and there are no three people are dead in a matter of 24 hours. That's crazy. And there's two different people that unalive all three.
Speaker 5:And Jamie wasn't Gabby found in or near a body of water as well.
Speaker 1:I thought she was found by a juniper tree.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and she was going to be buried almost like a field or something.
Speaker 5:Okay, I might be wrong. I thought it was something that said she was near body of water.
Speaker 3:Brian was.
Speaker 1:Brian was near the body of water. Oh gosh, I don't like the way Not too far from my house. Probably is a coincidence, but it's just.
Speaker 3:I can't get there, I can't. It's hard knowing what we know, but If it wasn't for the journal that they found with him.
Speaker 1:But not to get too mind hunter on you, but if there was a serial killer that was super into that, why couldn't they have staged a journal? Why couldn't they have staged it?
Speaker 2:But then they would have had to have killed Brian to them.
Speaker 1:That was what my 10-year-old son originally said, but now I'm thinking about it out loud and thinking his theory through. What if it made him so crazy that he was like I'm done?
Speaker 2:It's almost like those wrongful convictions, right when those interrogations, and people are like you did this and finally someone's Did, I Probably.
Speaker 2:And so, janelle, because of what you just said, I would like to say this, jamie, I thought about I'm not sure that I was on the Zoom when your son came in and gave his thoughts, but we have discussed it multiple times and it was something that stood out to me because there were, in this time frame when I say time frame, I mean like a week in a town of 5,000 people Gabby was murdered and these two girls were murdered and there was either three or four cases of other people murdered Crazy, in this small town, in this nature park area. But the only one that got the biggest coverage was Gabby, and the only reason which we haven't got into yet, that we're about to, is the connection between these two and Gabby the other ones because there was no correlation, no parallels, they were not mentioned, no one knows about them. So I thought about that, jamie. I was like what if this whole serial killer thing is true, because of what don't we know?
Speaker 3:Okay, I have to go back to. So Gabby died of strangulation, which is like a Kermit passion, or I guess in their case that's what it was labeled as. This is, it's just bananas to me, like I keep going back to. I really want to know were they unclothed before they were shot or after, because I feel like that would be really telling as far as what the perception was supposed to be. Like it's super, super odd to find somebody unclothed in that manner without an assault, like why would you stick around and take the time to do that, just assuming they were killed before you unclothed them. But also, if you did that before, like that would make me think that there were multiple people involved where they could, like, had weapons on each of the girls.
Speaker 1:My multiple people thing is officially out from here on out because of Brian Colburger. I just I'm going to keep talking about them. I used to think that too, but he single-handedly went in and did this shit.
Speaker 5:Can I throw something like really crazy and speculative out there?
Speaker 4:That's what we do, girl. I think what you're going to do is when I'm where I'm at, but I really hope so.
Speaker 5:Okay, what if the two women were just going to go for a romp in the hay outside, just to they're out by themselves? They're snowing around and some person sees a moment of opportunity and did what happened and there could be no connection at all to what happened.
Speaker 3:I know it's crazy, it's wild but maybe that could be the reason. This is from an outsides girl. I'm not an outsides person. That thought crossed my mind. I'm not going to get crazy with you in the grass, no, in the woods.
Speaker 2:Now.
Speaker 1:But it would explain the shirt yeah.
Speaker 4:I for sure think that the shirt. I think that scene was staged. That's my opinion. You don't get, you get. She gets shot in the back. I don't know how hard it is to run when you're half-clothed, because I don't really run half-clothed ever, but I'm not assuming it'll be easy. I really do think that it was probably just maybe a crime of opportunity or whatever. Somebody comes creepy dude, enters the campsite and doesn't want to sexually assault them. I don't think that this had anything to do with sexual assault, because it didn't happen. I think that it was staged to look like a sexual assault. I think this person just wanted to kill them for whatever reason.
Speaker 3:Another thing is we've already talked about national parks, like the amount of tragic things that happen. I think it's just probably not. It's probably just. I just imagine a lot of transient people are in and out of there. I'm not talking about unhoused people, it's just like touristy people on the run, people like off the grid. There's a reason they are that way. I was about to say I would never go camping in a national park. I'm not going camping anywhere. I would just imagine it's a different kind of crowd than we're used to. I think you have to put that aspect into it. There's probably a lot of creepy people. Maybe you get desensitized to creepy people when that's your life and that's where you're staying and somebody howling next to you. That's just normal and that's why they were like no big deal. We run into these fucking people all the time. It's also super easy for somebody nefarious.
Speaker 4:My favorite word thank you.
Speaker 3:Anytime somebody says nefarious, everybody take a drink. I just think that it's a catch-all for these types of people who may have really bad motives.
Speaker 5:To jump onto that, janelle, I think about just my safety as a woman, and maybe, david, you can speak to the safety aspect of an LGBTQIA plus person. What does that safety aspect look like? Or can you speak to that at all?
Speaker 2:I'm so glad you brought this up, because there are so many things that we don't know about the outdoors and the outside and the communities. I didn't know that Vanlife is actually a community, like what Gabby was doing, what these girls were doing. They both had jobs. They could have afforded a home. They chose to do this because this is what they like to do. Like people choose to do it. And I think that when I went into this story I was like okay, they probably have $10 an hour jobs and they had a van that was paid for and they're like we live in this area where people do this, we'll just do that.
Speaker 2:Like they can afford a house Like they. This is just what they like, and so it opened me up to this whole like thing. There is a Vanlife community and I did not know this, but I found in the Marie Claire article that I read they interviewed these people about outdoorsy lifestyles and minorities that fall into it and I took screenshots of this thing. So the article says the outdoors is absolutely not safe and inclusive for the queer community, and that is quoted by Patty Gania, which is a queer environmentalist drag queen who advocates for diversity and inclusion. The Patty continues to say the outdoors is a culture that is rooted within whiteness, white supremacy, cis culture, straight culture and built on making any marginalized person feel unsafe, and there is articles and blogs and stuff about this. I've never had a reason to research. I don't go outside, but there's hundreds and hundreds of comments and of men and women, of gay and straight and different colors and race that are going on about this and I didn't realize this was a thing. Have you all heard this before?
Speaker 4:Being somebody who I have been to Utah, I've been to Zion, actually not in the same area quite, but in that same. A lot of the people that I have encountered I think you could say hippies or whatever. But there was the group that you would maybe say I don't even know if that's even appropriate anymore to call people hippies, but I would say, Like the stereotypical, what you think, yes, those are the most loving compassion of people ever. So I don't know where that would apply.
Speaker 2:Maybe it depends on where you are, but I think in certain areas maybe that's true, but like in other areas, like definitely in that area You're doing it self is safe, but when you have that straggler outside or just broke out of prison, pretend to be a doctor that gets into the woods. When they see these minorities, we're looked at as weakness. You know what I mean. Like people see me and they immediately think that I'm weak because I'm gay.
Speaker 1:So maybe you're gonna get to this. Maybe there's a spoiler alert, but I went into this case completely blind. Is this still unsolved?
Speaker 2:Can I not answer that right now? To bring us back to where we are. We're talking about Brian and Gabby maybe being connected to this. What started all of this? Again, because of lack of media with the girls case, people started speculating, making up their own rumors and scenarios and narratives in their head. So this all started with Brian and Gabby. It was all internet rumors.
Speaker 2:Brian did assault Gabby outside of the moonflower and that's where the surveillance was all caught. Some people speculated that it was Kylan that had called the police after witnessing the assault. Brian was then placed in a hotel after the assault when they were separated, if you remember and it is a seven minute walk from Woody's Tavern, which is where the girls were the night they were last seen. So that's what was kind of marrying the two. It was confirmed that Kylan was not working the day of the assault. She was not the one that called the police, and this theory was quickly shut down. At one point, kylan and Crystal were playing pool with a couple that no one knew, and so there was also speculation of could that have been Brian and potentially Gabby. That hasn't been completely debunked. From what I could tell, I could be wrong. Don't hate me, don't cancel me, I could be wrong with that. But I'm thinking with everything, because at this point Brian and Gabby would have already been separated right For the nine. And you go to this hotel, you go to this hotel, kind of thing. So I'm thinking that's not true, but just to throw that out there. So a person that we may all not like or have thoughts about is dog the bounty hunter, and he got involved in this case. He was already involved. He's a big controversy right now, at the date that we're recording this because of things. I think it's starting to fade away. But either way we won't get into that. But either way he was already getting involved with Gabby's case because it was very publicized. Then speculations were happening of the connections and so Sean Paul father reached out to dog and dog was like we're gonna take this case, we're gonna look into that, and so dogs bounty hunter got involved.
Speaker 2:Police were very silent about this whole case for all this time until they heard dog the bounty hunter was involved and then the next day, within hours, they had a suspect. Adam Pinkes was 45 years old, who also lived the van life, so he was known to be a drifter and he was also one of Crystal's co-workers at McDonald's, due to his potential connection to the victims and the fact that he owned a Toyota Yaris, which is the same car that was spotted by a witness. They didn't say that this witness was Cindy Sue, but remember the car that stopped in front of Cindy Sue and I'm wondering if that's what it was. But another part of me is I feel like they would have mentioned that and maybe she was just so distraught with what she's seen she wouldn't have remembered what kind of car. But I just kind of wondered. So who knows? Speculation, if you will, but this car, this Toyota, was the same car that a witness gave, and so that made Adam Pinkes the prime suspect.
Speaker 2:The McDonald's manager was interviewed about Adam specifically and she said that Adam had often made threats to her. She is also a lesbian. Adam was said to be very vocal about his anger and dislike toward lesbians, specifically lesbians. Okay, so remember that Adam was sent home, actually one night, for threatening another co-worker, telling her who, telling a lesbian co-worker that if you wanna act, we can take this outside and I will fight you like a man. He also one time became very angry at Crystal, and this was timeframe of the disappearance right. So he became very angry at Crystal one night because she came into McDonald's and was preparing her own food and got a bag of ice and he was putting up a whole thing of no, she's on the clock, she should be a customer and they're like we're family here. Make a burger, get a bag of ice.
Speaker 2:So, shortly after this incident, after Adam making threats showing his eyes and actually being sent home one night because the threats were so severe, people were like I can't walk with him. So they sent him home. Adam left the area. He was noted to be homeless, living the camp life, and it was within the same day, timeframe, days, timeframe of the disappearance slash when we found out to be murder. He never even picked up his last paycheck. You're homeless, you're going out of town, you work at McDonald's, you need that paycheck. My thoughts right.
Speaker 2:So during this time, sean Paul, who was like father of the year to me, I fucking love this man the way that he publicly said my daughter married this beautiful woman and they are both my daughters and just loved and accepted them like I just love that. So anyway, Sean Paul, he stopped everything in his life and he set up a booth at the park at the campsite that the girls bodies were found out and he called it the clue booth. He was there every day for people to just come by, drop clues, talk to him and make himself known. A lot of the clues and speculations that came in mentioned Adam Pinkes. It was packed that Adam was in town and in the same area at the time of the murders. So later we find that Adam went to visit and get this. Adam went to visit an on again, off again, boyfriend, adam was gay.
Speaker 1:What the shit, adam, he had to have so much hate and animosity towards that to give his cover, which is fucking bullshit. Just accept it. It's a social norm. It drives me nuts. It's not that he was closeted.
Speaker 2:He was going to ask.
Speaker 3:No, it's not that he was closet.
Speaker 2:Remember when I said put, remember the fact that he was vocal about hating lesbians. It wasn't about hating the gay community, it wasn't about hitting gays in general, he hated the lesbian.
Speaker 1:Because it's okay for guys to be gay, but girls couldn't.
Speaker 2:I don't know what the reasoning or justification in his mind was, but so, david, you, you are a spokesperson from this community.
Speaker 3:Is that a normal thing, or is that? I will say oh, there's the T.
Speaker 2:I will say there was a time especially not now generations are different but when I was 18, 19, 20 and going out, I loved everybody and when I was making friends, there was this divide and you could go into a bar and you could see gay men and lesbians over here. It was usually the lesbians that didn't mind it and so therefore, the gay men didn't like the lesbians because they didn't like them, but there was never any thoughts or anything about it. It was just like we'll be over here, you will be there. I don't understand it. I went to that bar that night with my best friend who was a lesbian, who was still my best friend. I've never been able to write my mind around that. But come to find out and still to my shock, 20, whatever years later, there was a whole like gay men and lesbians are not friends that don't like each other.
Speaker 2:But this just happened, like we're talking about something that happened like a couple of years ago A couple of years ago Now the generations, at least as far as Crystal, who was older, I was 45. Crystal was 38 at the time of murder. Kylin was 24.
Speaker 3:It sounds to me like there were some mental health issues with him, right. I don't know for to the speculation part yet, but I don't buy it. I don't buy it, but it's him.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like that. Okay, great, then I'll continue. Put a pin.
Speaker 3:And he gave me a pin.
Speaker 2:So later we find that Adam went to visit an on again, off again boyfriend and during this visit he confessed to killing two women. He was a person of interest for a while and the police didn't know that shortly after confessing to his boyfriend about the murders of these two women, he took his own life. This happened one month after the murders. Adam's body was found in his hotel. It was goodbye letters to his family and ever seen for a Glock, 19, 9 millimeter handgun with for any brand and brand ammunition Shit. But don't let go of that speculation yet, please. Records, phone records do show that there were text messages that Adam and said he made homophobic responses about lesbian community, had racist views. We also showed paranoia and had the consistent thoughts of raping and killing people, which has been said in grain of salt. But it has been said in different resources that one of the main reasons that he killed himself is because he had the urge to rape and kill others.
Speaker 1:That tugs at my heart.
Speaker 2:I know, I know that's a lot.
Speaker 1:I just wish he could have gotten the mental health that he needed.
Speaker 6:But we don't do that. That's the problem. It's like what. I think it's moving that way, but people are talking more about you go in and have a physical every year.
Speaker 3:You should also go in and have a mental health physical every year, and just like it costs money, like and if he didn't have a home, I think therapy for me would be expensive. I if you're living in your car, that's like the last thing on your.
Speaker 6:Absolutely. Or even if you do get help and are medicated for it, right like you couldn't afford the medication at some point and I think I've said this before, but I think there's if we could solve poverty and we could solve mental health or get like some type of universal mental health, we'd be all good, we could just get on that would be great.
Speaker 2:And I want to say I'm not meaning this, if we have any listeners or if any of us work in fast food or work at a rush on. That's not my point. I'm glad you have a job. I hope you love it. I hope they're amazing to you. But he worked at McDonald's and, with what I do know, the resources medically that is provided from companies such as isn't always the grandest I'm sure they don't get full benefits. Right, yeah, and so I'm not knocking the job at any means, but you probably have limited resources.
Speaker 1:This may be my plug for an EAP program. I don't work at McDonald's. I didn't work at McDonald's but I do feel like they are a big enough organization to have an EAP program. But I don't think companies give enough light to them.
Speaker 3:And also, if you have been in this state for who knows how long, how do you even know that something is wrong with you? Like, how do you know that? Yeah, you don't.
Speaker 2:It's your new normal.
Speaker 3:It's your new normal, I do. It is intriguing that he confessed about murdering two women. He was in the area and there's a cross-reference.
Speaker 1:Are there any other women that were dead around that time, or did he specify when he killed those women?
Speaker 2:And Adam's boyfriend told the police details given to him by Adam and they were details that were not released to the public, such as the girls were being the girls were shot. Remember when Cindy Sue was talking about the rabbit in the cage and the tent being disarray? What I find weird about this is she said, disarray, would there not be? And maybe, dana, this is a question for you does those bullets? Would that still not cause like blood splatter? Would you not be able to look at it and tell me like, oh my God, this is blood versus the blanket off the air mattresses on the floor?
Speaker 5:To me there would be blood spatter, because those types of bullets are meant to do damage. And but again, I am not a forensic, anything but now but just in my very basic opinion, because when you think about a tent, you either have to be shooting through the tent or from a door window, something like that, right. So that's either extreme luck that you got six shots in each woman and you have 15 rounds, let's assume so you have to have pretty decent accuracy I hate saying that, but or you have to be an extremely close range to keep them trapped inside. And when you think of a tent it's all enclosed top, bottom sides, but everything's enclosed so there's got to be a lot of blood. Six holes per woman is a lot of blood leaking out. I'm so sorry that's so fast, but we all know.
Speaker 1:No, but you bring up a good point, because wouldn't you then have some kind of drag marks or blood marks or something that you would see along the way to the creek where they were found?
Speaker 2:I think it was two people that was also a little dumbfounded because when I was reading and research this immediately what came to my mind was something I never found. So Cindy Sue says the tent was disarray. It was like the door was unzipped, the rabbit was unfad, said nothing about blood, but she said something about the blanket kind of being like on the ground versus the mattress. It would be a blow up mattress. You're telling me you shot 1215 rounds and the blow up mattress still blown up.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not. Even if you were in close range, I feel like a bullet would go through a body and hit the mattress.
Speaker 5:But if they're designed to shatter inside the body, then they might not.
Speaker 2:That means every shot had to have been, which I mean, I guess maybe if you're at a tent door and you're at a mat, I guess that would be close up range to where every shot hit. But back to your own thing. Where's the blood trial, like? Where's the claw marks in the ground? And if one of the girls ran, one was not, obviously they didn't die immediately because it looked as if, and what they can tell is that crystal took off running when she realized maybe Kyloon was passed and that's why there's a separation in the body. So where's the blood drops there, like where?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry you're not cleaning up Like it's very easy. I shouldn't say very easy. It's much easier to clean up murder scene in a house than it is a fucking campsite. Maybe I'm wrong, Dana, correct me if I'm wrong. Can I clean up a wilderness murder site?
Speaker 5:I think about the times, oh gosh when I was a camper. I love camping there. I said it, it's out there, I love camping. This is not in Utah, this is in Wisconsin, so just a geographical differences. But dirt, sand, water, it is a fucking disaster. It is dirty and gross. And I think about what happens if you get like blood and dirt mixed together. And this friend is trying to find her friends and she didn't see like a scuffle. She didn't see blood. She didn't see and maybe she didn't, maybe she didn't, because you're trying to find your friend, you're not trying to find bullet holes in your friend's tent, but at the same time it would look like mud. I don't know what dirt in Utah mixed with blood would look like.
Speaker 4:I'm glad that you don't know that Dirt in Utah is red. Yeah, it's like a reddish color to that.
Speaker 5:But I'm just saying that and maybe that's where I'm wrong.
Speaker 1:The volunteer to look like to look up what blood and dirt look like.
Speaker 2:You have to look up Utah dirt, but regardless of what it looks like there would be a pattern of or a trail of. And if it were like, why is there all this mud here with these claw marks and shoe prints or whatever, but there's not two feet over? Like, regardless of you know what it looks like, there would be something that would draw you to it. And if you all saw Cindy Sue's interview, or if you ever watched it, she was so detailed and so traumatized by it, like.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's going to be the part that she's not going to overlook it, and I don't think that would be the part that she blocked out.
Speaker 6:How far away were they from their tents?
Speaker 2:So Cindy is driving on the Sturt Road and she was like, oh, I see the Kia. So she parts and she walks over to the tent and sees when she's on the phone she's pacing back and forth and she looks over just to the other side of her car there's this little like ditched body of water thing and she walks there and that's where the body is. And it's within 100 feet. Oh yeah, it was all walking distance on the phone with.
Speaker 1:And the shooting in the tent came from Adam's confession Correct.
Speaker 4:That's what I was going to ask. But he was telling somebody say, he told somebody else this though. Yeah, he told the boyfriend that, and so the boyfriend was relaying what he said. Now, the boyfriend could have got it wrong too.
Speaker 6:Or maybe he shot into the tent. If he had 15 bullets, right yeah, maybe he shot three shots into the tent. Then that's when they got out, drug the blanket out with them as they were running, or whatever.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 6:And he got both of them from there.
Speaker 2:If both of them were dressed or undressed waist down, could they have been startled in the middle of the night? Maybe they were sleeping with their tops on but with their bottoms off?
Speaker 4:What if they weren't sleeping? What if they were messing around or, like somebody had already said, but they were in the tent doing it, and then this Adam's or whoever else, this might button something that set them off.
Speaker 3:So where their pants pulled down they were undressed waist down.
Speaker 2:They had their shirts on. There was no one of them having a bra on it, because it was pulled up over the breast almost in my mind in a humiliating kind of way, versus Especially with that, not that non sexual assault.
Speaker 5:I'm thinking they were in the tent and whoever came upon them and did something to startle them out of the tent, they were just like that's that in the middle of the night and they just hear something weird or maybe somebody messing with their car and it's no good.
Speaker 2:Maybe the dude started howling again.
Speaker 4:Oh, it could be. I think it would make more sense if it was, if they were startled or had to get out of there fast or he's shaking the tent or something like just yelling outside the tent.
Speaker 6:Get out, or I'll kill you, whatever.
Speaker 1:What Okay, I'm going back to now Was that weird guy? Ever looked into the guy that was staying too close to them?
Speaker 4:And that was to piggyback off. That's the one thing that bothers me about this. If it was somebody that she knew or they knew, they wouldn't say it was some creepy guy, or they would say it was Adam hanging around the tent. They wouldn't say it was just some creepy guy.
Speaker 2:Adam's boyfriend told police details that the police had not released, such as the girls being shot in the tent and where he laid the remains. People continuously asked that if Adam was the creeper dude that the girls mentioned the night that they were with their friends, would they not say this dude from work, adam, or this dude that works with McDonald's Adam? What was found is Adam and Crystal never worked the same shifts. They had only we only know of one time that they met, and this was in the height of COVID, and they were wearing masks.
Speaker 5:Okay then, and if they were telling their friends this, is it possible that it was just In theory, if they didn't even know his name? Like creepy guy from work?
Speaker 2:Because if you were like this dude down the street did this, I feel like one of us would be like I'm saying them before. Do you know him? Do you know his name? I feel like there would be those and they're from what have been said, like they were inquisitive about this, what. And so I'm not gonna say some creeper dude when I'm talking about Benjamin that sits next door to me at work, you know what I mean. I'll be like this creep Benjamin at work that I might say, but I don't know, like I'm trying to put Myself into the. I'm wearing a mask, I'm not wearing a mask. Could someone? Would? I still would there, would there still be that sense of Familiar team?
Speaker 1:depending on how often you're around them, you might pick up on, like man-e-risms, how they walk, how their voice sounds, things like that.
Speaker 3:the eyes, yeah plus, it's dark out. It just seems to me that they were ambushed.
Speaker 1:There may not have been even enough time to True, I was thinking back if they were describing the creeper, that even if the guy was wearing a mask, they would still know that it was this guy from work, potentially.
Speaker 3:If I had like an altercation serious enough to where somebody said meet me outside. I'm gonna remember that.
Speaker 2:I feel like they would say I Don't know this for sure, but he reminds me this dude, adam that works on McDonald's on night shift that Tried to come at us one time Like I feel like there would be some Something other than this creeper dude.
Speaker 5:And do we know if, because he didn't threaten crystal, did he? I thought that was somebody, another lesbian woman that worked in McDonald's.
Speaker 2:Thread of you want to act like a man, let's go inside and put like man. That was to a different lesbian, but it was when. But when crystal came in and when to get the back of eyes and just make themselves dinner, and he was not happy about it, it was known. It just wasn't as partially said as let's go out and find about it.
Speaker 5:It was still like Dude, you have an anger issue and David, I don't know if you can speak to this at all, but just from the experience of as a woman and if there's a Creepy guy that comes in to work all the time and is always hitting on the employees there we're travels around. Watch out for that guy. He sucks. He's always gonna be hitting on you much less. I know you don't work with that guy, but he's threatening. I would hope that you have something in common like a sexuality where this guy is clearly targeting it.
Speaker 2:You would have some sort of hey, you and me, we're watching out for that guy but there's actually a video on YouTube that you can find and it is along these Podcasts. Was like we're going to investigate this case and they go to McDonald's, they interview people and the whole staff was like we're gay friendly, our managers a lesbian, we love her. Why, like we loved these girls and it isn't even on police report record of them all saying Look at pink us because within hours ago, public of Hating lesbians and was pissed off that crystal went and made her own food.
Speaker 3:So is this case. I'm assuming it's still open, because there are no like hard a hundred percent it was him, or do you think they're even still looking into it at all?
Speaker 2:dog the bounty hunter. He is Not convinced that Adam is the killer. He believes that even with a mask, working in the same place with the girls, they would have recognized. Sean Paul has accepted the outcome of Adam being the killer and I quote him by saying I feel elated, I feel free, I feel the shackles and the weights and the binding that's been on me for over a year and a half has now been lifted. Adam has been sentenced to. The ultimate sentence is Go to by Sean Paul.
Speaker 2:Kaliin Schulte is Buried with her little brother and her baby girl, and yellowstone part, crystal Turner, was cremated and her ashes are with her family with the plans of ashes in a locket and Putting those with Kailin in her casket. There are go fund me's I looked into. Why were they separated? Why were they not together? What I think that I can put together again lack of information if I'm wrong. I'm so sorry and I mean all the respect, but it looks like there was already thoughts of I Want this kind of thing for me and I want this kind of thing for me because they're made. They were married three months before they were, so there wasn't that time to plan. What do we do together.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, money on both sides of the family is, like most people is a factor, yeah, and Some viewpoints, and this is nothing that pisses me off. So, missy, I think you mentioned in the Janelle I think you just asked to, is this open or closed? I have googled all over the place. One Article says closed, one article says still open. The best answer that I feel comfortable is the family feels as if this is closed. I did see where the police are only accepting evidence, not clues or speculations, but accepting evidence to investigate thoughts.
Speaker 3:I just wonder, like, what would have happened with the Investigation of this case if it hadn't been like simultaneously with Gabby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think would have been even worse, and that's even actually what the victims family say is. The only reason they got the attention they got is because they were somehow able to parallel it. Parallel it's with.
Speaker 4:It's probably. It's like the morrow Marie, brianna, maitland Take, where if you talk, you have to talk about one, you have to talk about the other.
Speaker 3:So either way like they're, like Breanna got, I think oh Was out of the limelight because of Mara Murray.
Speaker 4:Yes, but that was the case was hardly even yeah, you and talks about her, looked at where. I think that's what they were so focused on solving the Gabby potato case and trying to find her that this one, like they stumbled upon it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and To write off those coattails. We wouldn't have Breanna Maitland Podcasts had they're not been more Murray, I don't think, oh.
Speaker 3:No way we've it would have. We've never been. She just would have been like a runaway, oh yeah.
Speaker 6:Which I think and it's, and I think that's what gets lost when people say this wasn't looked at like Gabby's case. Thing is like everybody in true crime wants every case looked at like the Gabby case, right, want to take anything away for how that case was Publicized and looked at and everything. We just want the same attention for everyone.
Speaker 3:Because you remember like it was everywhere, like you could not turn on the TV without, or Be on the internet or be on your phone without seeing something about it. And I'm glad that she got that, but I everybody should get the same I.
Speaker 2:Will end it with saying again that there are no fun means to help the families that have been so consumed with this. Sean Paul pretty much stopped working to set up a booth Asking for clues, and so when it comes time to funerals and things like that, they were out of money and Every dollar, every five dollars, helps and counts. I will end it with saying Adams car is as of 2020, the end of 2022, beginning at 2023, which was the most recent that I could find is, adams car is still being tested and clues are still being investigated, although the family feels they had their closure, there's always room for people like us to speculate while we don't want you to miss any of our future recordings.
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