She’s Ruining the Comedy "Bro Vibe"... And It’s Brilliant w/ Lynn Harris

Is the comedy industry FINALLY fixing its "bro" problem? 🚨

In this episode of Surviving Ish, David sits down with the legendary Lynn Harris—journalist, comedian, and founder of Gold Comedy—to expose the toxic "bro vibe" dominating stand-up and how she’s completely flipping the script for women and non-binary creators.

But first... we're talking full-blown CABIN FEVER. ❄️ From being trapped indoors by massive snowstorms to dealing with the absolute nightmare of automated phone prompts and David’s disastrous furniture-measuring fails, we are diving deep into the hilarious frustrations of just trying to survive everyday life.

Then, things get real. Can you actually laugh at trauma? 🎭 Lynn breaks down the exact science of how humor helps us heal from pain without making light of the tragedy. We’re tackling the golden rules of comedy:

• How The Onion handled 9/11 (and why it worked)
• The difference between "punching up" vs. "punching down"
• How to brutally shut down hecklers and master crowd work
• Why being hyper-specific is the secret weapon to making people laugh

If you’ve ever used humor to get through a dark time, or if you're just sick of the same old gatekeepers in comedy, you cannot afford to miss this episode!

✨ SMASH that subscribe button, leave a comment with your worst customer service horror story, and hit the notification bell so you never miss an episode! ✨

https://goldcomedy.com/

#comedy #secrets #womenincomedy #non-binarycomedians #trauma #hecklers

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Welcome to Surviving Ish. You guys, I'm a little bit of a cabin fever. I'm not sure exactly the time that this will be released, but I've been snowed in, um, which happens a couple times or a couple days out of the year um here in Tennessee where I live. But the past like three weeks, there's been, you know, calls for storms. I've stayed at hotels so I can get to work, and then nothing happened. I've uh I've been a bit of just secluded and away from people. And this is one of the first podcast recordings that I'm doing since then. And I'm so excited to connect with Lynn. Lynn Harris, thank you for joining me today. I'm so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Thank you for having me. I'm like, I'm the first human face you've seen in three weeks, you know, something like that. Um so happy to play that role.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Yeah, yeah. It's been so I see your background. Uh, is are you uh having a blizzard where you're at, or is that normal, or is that we did have a spectacular the perfect kind of blizzard?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I'm in New York and we had like the perfect kind of blizzard where let me not downplay the fact that people did die of cold. I don't want to downplay that, but what I mean is, and that is but that happened that also happens not to downplay it, that also happens you don't need a blizzard for that because you still have to fix that problem, obviously. Right. Um but I but we had other than that, and just in terms of people being able to take public transportation to their jobs and people being able to like maintain the necessities of their livelihood and things like that, it was the kind of snowstorm where it was just enough to be a real snowstorm that was a delight, but not so much that people like couldn't get to their jobs and earn their livings and that kind of thing. So it was really beautiful. The funny part though is that because it's been really cold, the snow hasn't melted. And so when they plow it, they plow it into mountains on the corners of the streets because there's nowhere else to put it and it's not melting. So it it's a little bit winter elliptic core here in New York City because there's like mountains big enough to snowboard down um on the corners of the streets in midtown Manhattan.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

So it's pretty much oh wow, that is I love it.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

It's my this is my element. I'm super happy.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Yeah, I I live in Knoxville, Tennessee, and people are like, oh, you get like all four seasons and ish, you know, like we ish, we get um we get like two days of fall and then we can say, and there there are a lot of times of the year that we get like all four seasons in one day. And like today, right? Like today, so Knoxville is kind of in a valley, so we can't really watch the news and know what's gonna happen because it'll change 10 minutes later. And you know, it's like everybody around us had like 15 inches. We had four, you know, but of course, we also live in a place where our state doesn't prepare for it because there's no financial reason to do so. Right and so you could pee in front of someone's driveway and they're closing schools down, you know, like that that that's how it happens here. So um, well, so uh nice to uh to meet you. So do do me a favor, give us a bit of an introduction before we get on to our ish.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Sure, sure. Again, my name is Lynn Harris. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I live work at the intersection of comedy and social change, making a difference, all those things. And I have done that for a long time. I was a journalist for a long time, I did stand-up for a long time, I uh worked for a very cool human rights organization that did comedy-driven campaigns, a lot of which I led to get people to understand human rights issues in a way, including in the US, in a way that was real and relevant and actionable. So it's that, and it's and I've you know written books and I've you know, that's what I do. And currently I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Gold Comedy, which is primarily online. So anyone curious, you can find us, you can do stuff with us. Uh, we're a uh comedy school and professional network and content studio where women and non-binary folks and other others, so really anybody who's trying to escape the bro vibe of kind of the rest of the comedy world, where you can come and build your comedy career or build your creative side hustle, become part of a powerful and collaborative community, and make funny stuff that actually gets seen on all kinds of stages and screens. And I think what drew me, you know, what draws me to the topics that you discuss, and we can I know we're gonna get into this, is okay, well, what can comedy do when it intersects with trauma, with things that are not funny, whether they're, you know, individual trauma or things that are trauma traumatic to us as a group of people or to a nation, where does comedy come in in a way where can what is the power of comedy to really transform not the entire experience? Of course, it's not a substitute for the other the other elements of transformation and healing, but it does have a lot of, but it it is one of them. And um, and so uh, you know, what are the ways, what are the ways that doesn't work? What are the ways that that that does work? How have I seen comedians leverage it? How have I seen non-comedians leverage the even if they're not professionals, leverage, you know, sort of tap into the power of of humor, if not professional comedy, into you know, as part of their journey. Um so that's that's sort of where we that's what brought us to these to this same place where we both have fake fire places in our videos.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Exactly. Exactly. So uh oh my gosh, like I already has a lot of questions, but before I get into those, because I feel like that's gonna be the topic that we really tune in uh tune in on. What are you what is that lighthearted surviving ish that you're having right now?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Okay, uh I mean I'm not really surviving it because it's making me nuts. This is gonna sound a little snooty, and I don't mean it to, but in fact, it's the opposite, I think. It's the opposite. Do you know how many times you call and you call and get a recording, which is fine. You know, you call customer service, whatever it is, get a recording. And then it says, and I'll translate in English, it says, for Spanish, press two. Okay? And when that voice says para español o prima humoro dos, I'm like, are you serious? Like, was there no person who spoke native Spanish within a five-mile radius of wherever you recorded that? I think not. It drives me insane. Come on. Or get someone with at least halfway decent high school Spanish. Oh, prima numero dos. We're this is the United States. Did we not just see Bad Bunny last night? I mean, we have plenty of people who can help you with this. It's so it's so bananas to me. I'm like, what corner are you cutting here? Um this will take you five minutes. There's someone in the building right now. You could just be like, hey, can you just come to the soundproof booth for a second and say one sentence? I'll buy you lunch. You know, like this is not hard. So it drives me nuts. Drives me nuts.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

I love, I love, I I love, I love that ish because you know, I have two predominant people in my life that are working on learning English. We know enough to where people have even the people will hear me and my best friend Nao speak. And he knows very little English. I know very little Spanish, and so it's very comical to hear us communicate because we're kind of like sign languaging and body motioning, and and we talk with like like I'll talk with a bit of an accent, and we talk really loud because we think that helps. And you know, yeah, right. If I scream what I'm saying, we have the translator, and but you know what? I love it, I love it. We both learn, and when when I hear him, he does three English classes a week that are like two hours long. And when I hear him speaking English, and then I hear like him speaking Spanish to interpret what he just said, you know, in English, I'm like, I'm kind of getting the free class, so I put my ear up to the door, you know, I'm learning for free through him. But yeah, like and he and I have even had this conversation. He was like, This is Spanish, but I don't know if it's the right Spanish. And but you're right, it's like, why are we not making things okay? I want to be careful how I say this because I don't want to get too too political, but it's like, are there people that are purposely doing the the shitty side of of of making it harder, like with a different language, just to try to prove their point of this is America when America is supposed to be about culture and different? I mean, Puerto Rico, just a reminder to people, is part of America. You know, it's like what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

I know, just walk out to the street. I mean, I don't know where they record these things, and it's probably some central place, but like walk out to the street and be like, hey, can anyone buy a coffee? Can you just come here for one second and say, you know, to read for Spanish press two? That's it. Yeah, it's embarrassing.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Yeah, it's like I know very, very little Spanish, but I could say El Espanol Dos. That's pretty much it, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

It's better than most I've heard.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

I don't know. Sometimes I just get and Neo and I have had conversations about this. It's like, are there certain businesses that are on a certain political side where it's like, let's make this really hard just to prove some kind of point.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Or or even maybe, yeah, but or or even it's to me, it's also like it doesn't even have to be that like calculating and intentional, it's just sloppy. Like we don't really care how our Spanish customers feel. Yeah. So we're just gonna get Lorraine over there, you know, yeah. Um, who would has never spoke Spanish, spoken Spanish a day in her life to just phone this in, you know? Yeah. Um because we don't care, we don't care how our if our Spanish customers feel seen, respected, heard, you know. So it's not, I don't know if it's necessarily deliberate. It's just like to me, it's like the tiniest little detail, but it says a lot.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Yeah. Well, and you're right. They they may not sit around and calculate, like, let's do this, but there's also that like it when it's brought to your attention, do you care to change it? You know, and so I'm I'm I would I'm curious to see the the places that I call the next time, you know, that have been like, okay, let's let's simplify this, let's let's change this a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

I mean, it probably comes from like a couple of different centralized companies that deliver their phone systems, but whatever, then those companies fix it.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Either way, fix it.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Either way, let's fix it.

unknown 11:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Very silly.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Yeah. Okay, so here's what I'm surviving ish. I'll tell you, today, like I mentioned in my intro, you know, the snow's gone. It's 49 degrees outside, and I was I went shopping earlier this morning, and people were wearing short sleeves and shorts because it went from like negative six to now it's 49 degrees, and we think that it's warm when obviously I'm still in a sweater. But what I'm surviving-ish is my day today. For example, the sweater that I'm wearing is the same as the wall behind me. So I'm so I look like a floating head. Um, so there's that.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

I can easily tell where you start, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Like, I can easily I didn't even notice that until we hear until I turned the camera on. I was like, we're just gonna go with it. It'll be five, it'll be an ish. But I while snowed in, I thought I like to treat myself to something nice every year, and I'm gonna treat myself to some new living room furniture. Nothing wrong with my old furniture, just something new, right? I learned that although I was a student in school, I uh I apparently learned how to forgot how to use a tape measure and how to measure things. And so I've ordered pictures, I've ordered couches, I've ordered throw blankets, pillows. Um I'm not loving any of it. And so I had to return a few things today. I'm trying to take I found a few things while shopping. I found a few things that I like that would go with some of the older stuff that I have, and I was like, this can be a temporary thing. So right before you and I logged on, I was Googling how to measure things correctly to hang on the wall, and I will say I only put two holes in the wall that did not need to be there.

unknown 13:42

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

And the picture covers it, so we're okay for now. But I, you know, people tell me all the time when they see my home, they're like, David, I want you to come decorate my home. And I just kind of laugh in my head because I'm like, there's a lot of things that come with being gay, right? And there's a lot, you know, people think, oh, you can decorate, you can dress. I have everyone do that for me. And and this time I thought, and I blame it on the snow, I blame it on the cabin fever. This time I thought, you know what? I've got enough experience, I've seen enough done. I've got AI at my fingertip, I've got Pinterest, I've got gay friends on uh interior designers on FaceTime. I can do this. I cannot do this.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah, there is a special magic, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

There's some branches I miss falling out of that gay tree. There's some branches I miss. I don't know how to, I don't know how to dress myself. I'm I I wear what's on the mannequin. Obviously, I'm matching this is perfect color.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Like I'm your goal is to match the wall, you nailed it.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

Then I nailed that. So that's kind of what I'm surviving-ish. But you know what? Maybe this is a test to see how my antidepressants are working, to see how my therapy is working, to see how this podcast is working, which is part of my therapy on how stressed do I get, how many things do I break? At what point do I accept the fact that I can't do this alone? And so maybe this is maybe this is my 2026 test. Does my doctor need to up my antidepressant dosage to be determined?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

To be determined, or do you just need to design help?

SPEAKER_03 15:28

It could be just that, could be just that. So that's kind of where I'm at today.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Yeah, got it. Yeah, but I'm trying to enjoy the ride.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

That's all we can do.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah. So, okay, so to lead us into this, uh, a few of the questions that I have with with with what you told us about you, that'll get us into a deeper topic. Is I after I went through my big trauma, which was 10 years ago, so it's not that long ago, you know. Um, I remember the first time I heard myself laugh. And my longtime listeners, that they've heard this story, but where I had some, you know, I had to learn how to walk again. I had uh some control damage, and I got down to 98 pounds. There was no like muscle math, I was clumsy, and I remember like just dropping and spilling my milk and cereal when all I wanted was a bowl of fruity pebbles. That's all I wanted. And and I couldn't get it without some hellacious, you know, war in front of me. And I fell down in the kitchen, and for the first time I laughed instead of crying. When falling down became a norm to me, but I was embarrassed, right? I had to had to learn how to pat myself on the back that I could walk to the mailbox. I've been walking to the mailbox since I was three years old. Had to pat myself on the back that I could stand up and pee in the toilet. I've been doing that since I was 12. I don't know. How old are you when you learn to pee standing up? Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Younger than 12, but you do you.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

But but you know, like, and so I had to learn how to pat myself on the back for these things that should just be backhand, right? And so it would ruin my day. It would that would happen. I would fall down at nine o'clock in the morning, I would spill my cereal at nine o'clock in the morning, I would go back to bed, and that's where I would stay. And I remember the first time that I laughed, and it was like, you know, I'm so fucking tired of crying, and to where I laughed and I heard myself, and it was a sound that I hadn't heard in so long, and I missed it. And I thought, you know, I have a choice. You know, I I might not have put myself on this road that I'm on, but I am driving the car, and and so so now it's up to me. And I learned to laugh again, and and to be able to say that like I'm almost getting tyriaded with it now, like I remembered that laugh, and it from that day forward changed things for me.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

That makes total sense to me. And to be clear, I'm not a therapist, um, but it makes total sense to me that like and it's not you know, it's not clear necessarily you know, which is the chicken and which is the egg. In other words, whether you I think partly you laughed because you were ready for whatever reason, and if it wasn't slipping in the kitchen, it would have been something else. But also, but I also think that like as long as you didn't actually hurt yourself, then like slipping and falling with a bowl of fruity pebbles is one of the funniest things you can fall with. Like it's like legit, like you know, I'm picturing like you didn't it's like they're like goofy polka dots, right? Like it's not like you you fell with like nails, you know, or like shattered an heirloom. It's like fruity pebbles, like you fall, and then you're like, you know, and there's like and you know, everyone loves slapstick, you know, and so and it's when it's harmless, and then there's there's milk and there's like bouncy fruity balls, you know. So I feel like it makes sense to me that like some combination of being ready to laugh and also the incident actually being legitimately a pretty good slapstick, yeah, um, kind kind of came together in that moment. And it doesn't mean, and I think you know, people all go on their own journey to figure this out. So like I'm not the only one who knows this or tells people this because people get a lot, you know, people do get to that place. Getting to that place where you can laugh doesn't mean that what happened to you was funny.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Um it doesn't mean and it doesn't mean that you're all of a sudden ready to take it less seriously. It means I think that it means, you know, I'm not even I'm not sure. I used to do a lot of uh work in the area of breakups, basically. And people would talk about closure. And I would always say, like, I don't know if closure is a is really the attainable goal. Because what does it really mean? Like you're never really over the thing, and that's okay. It's just like enough time has passed that there might still be like a little piece of whatever it is stuck to your back, but it's not in your way. Like, I don't know, closure? What's closure? Uh but but with something like trauma, it I think, and there's and again, I'm not a therapist, but when I've spoken to people who are experts in like cognitive therapy, they say they describe that moment of when you're able to laugh as, and I'm I'm mixing in my words with theirs, but but as the moment or or the series of moments, the process, when you're able to kind of, and I'll use my mug as a as a prop, when you're able, when like it's not this thing that's in you, it's it's this thing you can that's that you still have, but you can hold it at a distance. Sorry, it keeps disappearing. It you can hold it as a at a distance and be like, what this part isn't funny, this part inside, or the part that's still attached to me isn't funny, but this part, the handle, that's funny. Like something about it, or something about like, I don't know, maybe it's maybe like your friends said all sorts of stupid shit at the time, not your friends, not your real friends, but like maybe people said stupid things to you and now you have enough distance to be like, okay, that part's funny, you know. Maybe you know, maybe it's it's so ridiculous, like you that it doesn't sting you anymore. So, you know, you can laugh with people who've been through what you've been through and be like, okay, how many people had someone say this? You know, um and so you can find the external parts that are funny. It's not what happened, it's how you responded, how people responded, how the world responded that has the opportunity to be funny, and when you can hold it or the capacity to be funny, and when you hold it at a distance and can examine it, that shows that, and again, chicken, egg, not sure, it's all it's back, it's a process, but that shows. That you're able to get enough for whatever reason, passage of time, therapy, whatever it is, that you're able to get enough distance from it that you can evaluate and discover and kind of dig into the funny parts and discern them from the parts that will never be funny.

unknown 22:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

But at least the funny parts are funny and it gives you some, it reinforces the distance that you have from this terrible thing that happened.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Yeah, I love everything that you just said, especially with the coffee mug, because I think what was happening with me is I was in a place up until that moment, I was in a place where anything and everything that happened, especially bad or hurtful, was a repercussion of the hate crime of the attempted murder, right? So with me falling down, it was because of the damage, the brain damage that this man chose to give me while trying to take my life away. You know, when sometimes you just trip and follow her shit. And so so it there it allowed me to have the separation of not everything that happens is because of him. And so many things can be true at the same time, you know. Instead of me putting all of my eggs and chicken, right? Instead of putting all of my eggs in one basket, I was able to realize that, yeah, maybe I fell down because of my ailments from what he did to me, but he didn't stick his foot out to trip me, you know, and and there's a difference in that. And so so that that hearing myself laugh was the first time that I thought, you know what, I'm in control now. And and that was one of my top healing moments. And what I find so interesting that I would love your thoughts on is when I do a lot of research on because I love comedy, love stand-up comedy, it takes a brilliant genius to do it, especially when it's done the right way, because I think the best comedians are gonna be the ones that can make fun of everybody and make fun of everything, but no one leaves offended, right? We all leave thinking, oh, maybe that's how the gay person does feel. And I didn't know I was making them feel that way. But I learned something while laughing, and then now I'm gonna second guess how I maybe say something, you know. I wish I could think of like a certain joke or comedian off the top of my head, but of course, on the spot I can't, but there's I think that when there's these comedians that use their life experiences or something that they their trauma and they're able to turn it into something is when when we can walk away laughing while learning is huge, and it takes a brilliant kind of person to do it, and uh that's why I think some comedians make it so well, and and and maybe some don't. What what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

I think when people really when comics really nail it is when they and this is true also of like um people who do more like comic storytelling, and it's true of good television also, good comic resonant comic television, and that is and it's gonna sound like a paradox, but when they're able to paint a picture that is so specific, so specific that it you may find on on its surface, you cannot relate to it. You live in Tennessee, they're from Alaska, you're gay, they're straight, whatever it is, you know. But when they're able to paint of such a specific picture, it makes it easier for you to imagine. Okay, it takes you there into this world that they're creating, and then it actually, whatever they're talking about, actually becomes more relatable because you're drawn into the picture that they're painting, and then you realize, oh, well, this joke is really about will I ever be loved, you know, or like these primal fears and experiences that we all have, regardless of where we live, what color our skin is, what's our religion, you know. And so that's when they that's I think I'm not the only person who thinks this, but that's why, you know, if you study comedy, that's why you're gonna be told over and over, nope, more specific. And weirdly, again, that's what the more specific you are about your own self, the more relatable you're gonna be to more people, even though that sounds that sounds backwards. Because if you just say like, anyone else have weird parents, you know, you're like, okay, it's a start, but I yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

You know, aren't weird parents weird? Yeah, but there's nothing to grab onto. But then if they get into some description of like that has nothing to do with what your parents are like, but you're like drawn in because you're like, okay, I'm I then you get to the the the heart of the matter because you're so drawn in that you can then you relate it to your own story, even if you don't even have weird parents, it's something about us, right? It's something about a family, it's something about uh the we're other weird people in your life, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

So that's when I think it works, and also that's when comedy about trauma can really work. Yeah. Because once you know, once a comic has gotten that same kind of distance that you and I have been talking about, where it's not a thing that is inside them, it's a thing that they have but they can hold at a distance so they can turn it over and consider what's funny. Yeah. Um then, yeah, I mean, they have to make choices about how specific they're gonna be with the audience about which elements of of whatever trauma they're talking about. And they have to convey to the audience that they're okay, uh that they, the comic, are okay, and that it's they have to convey to the audience that it's okay to laugh. Those are very important things. But then again, they can you could, you know, be listening to someone talk in a very thoughtful way about a trauma that you've never had, and they'll find the pieces that are the that of it that are the most primal and relatable. And so that's where that that's where that kind of uh content can really resonate also.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Yeah. Now I am not a comedian. I think I'm funny. I'm one of my biggest fans, but that's a whole that's that's a whole other episode. But like I remember this one time when I got back into the working world, you know, after my hate crime, and that there was this little guy, uh well, I shouldn't say the there was this, he was probably in his 60s or 70s that came up. I say little guy just because he was smaller than me and I'm already a small guy, right? But he you he at least thought he was six foot six foot tall and bulletproof, and he was ready to take me down, you know, for something that had I had no control over. And so luckily I'm good at like talking people off the ledge and it, you know, and and keeping them cool, calm, and collected. And so he walked away and I I looked over my coworkers and I was like, good lord, I thought I was about to be a victim of another hate crime. And I thought that was so funny, and but then they kind of looked at me like they didn't know if they could laugh or not, right? You know, and I thought me making that joke and laughing would be their permission, but then they and that's when I started realizing that people are walking on eggshells around me. And then I noticed that like when you have like around holidays, when you have friends and family gatherings, with people that maybe you don't see all the time, and all they really saw was my court case being drawn out, you know, through social media, or if they called my mom, um, whatever I put on social media, uh, whatever was on the news. And so my healing looked different to them. It was on a different timeline than them. And so every time that I saw them, I thought I was doing great. And I was ready to laugh and play and cut up and you know, and throw each other in the bus and be silly like we always do. And I was doing that, I'd be like, oh, you know, you need a little Botox here or whatever, you know, just whatever is being silly. And they're like, Oh, you're right, I probably do. And I'm like, Oh, you look younger than you ever had before. Like, uh like I'm trying to just joke with you like we always have. But they always felt like they had to still walk on eggshells with me because I was not healing on the timeline that they had been presented via social media, via whatever, and or on their terms. And so they we just kept hitting these walls.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

I wasn't there, I don't know. Sure. But it also occurs to me that another take could also be true at the same time, is that they were being super careful that they're just that they just were like, This is not uh, you know, I do not want to step into this quicksand. Sure. And what comics, you know, a comedian has the luxury, which you don't in those incidental conversations. A comic, I mean, I've seen comics talk about this stuff who literally say, I'm gonna tell you about this terrible thing that happened to me, and they they will say, It's okay to laugh. They'll just say it. And you can also tell when they're like telling jokes as opposed to like reading their diary. You can tell. And so they have time, they have time on stage. And typically what they'll do is like spend a bunch of time building your trust before they get into the tough stuff, if they're gonna talk about tough stuff. So they'll talk about more goofy stuff before they kind of gently pivot into whatever trauma or whatever it's not gonna be trauma, but whatever difficult top more difficult topic. And so in real life, you don't literally you just don't have that that that opportunity. Right. Um, so I could I can imagine myself just being like, Can I laugh? Like if I'm not your best, if I'm not like your inner circle, I could imagine myself kind of watching you for cues and then being like, okay, okay, okay, okay. But like being like and just to be so just to be as careful as possible. Oh 100% on this than I do, but 100%.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

And I was never offended or mad at these at these people because obviously they're not out of love and respect, right? Yeah, but I mean, you know, the point of me wanting to do this surviving-ish was to show people that we do give you permission, and and it's okay to laugh with me. It's one thing to laugh at me, and I'm the kind of person too that if you said something that I wasn't ready for, we're probably hopefully going to be in that place where I can say, okay, that might have been taken a little too far, you know, let's rule it in a little bit, and then we're okay. Well, high five after and we're dying. I just I I I love comedy, I think comedy and music is two of my top healings, and I love like there are certain people that can come out and just give that one opening line that's like WTF, and you're in. And so when you were talking about how someone might say something about family, right? I think of Sarah Silverman, and so what I'm gonna say here is gonna be a Sarah Sarah Silverman Silverman little quote from her stand up. Uh, but there we're non-filtered here as a comedian. I doubt you're offended by much. But like Sarah Silverman walks out on stage and she says, Oh, hold on, how did how did she say it? She said, Oh, she said, I was going down to my boyfriend and I realized I'm just like my mother. And I mean that would that was her opening line. And so people are like, What? You know, but but it also makes me think of how like I would never think about that and think that I'm just like my mom, but I immediately go into like I know there are things where I'm just like my mom, you know, in my 40s now that 20 years ago I'd have been like, I will never do anything like this, but you're so awful for this, and then I'm doing it, and I'm not even a parent, you know, and so it immediately got me into that. Well, how do I relate to my mom? I don't relate to her this way, but how do I relate to her in other ways? Like, what's next? What is Sarah gonna say next? And I thought that was just really cool.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yep, I agree. It's not just shocking, it actually draws you in.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Yeah, but it takes a certain kind of person for that to be an opening line, would you think?

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Yeah, because I I you you'd have to if you were newer, you could do that joke. You just have to work it a lot. And because she walks into a room where everyone knows who she is, so you know, she can she has the leeway to do that, but there was always a first time for that joke, or you know, she I remember her from the 90s and she and before she was super famous, and you know, she was always provocative, like she would always kind of go there, but like, but then really not at the end of the day of the day, uh, what she was really getting at was not very shocking, but she would which and meaning I don't mean that she tried and failed to be shocking, I just mean that she would find like a shocking way into a perfectly reasonable you know resolution that would actually highlight the ridiculousness of whatever it was she was about to say. So but yeah, yeah, it's it still goes to whether whether it's because you're well known or whatever, the idea that you have to build the tr build trust first before you get into you don't have to you it is recommended that you build trust first before you get into your more challenging material. But Sarah has built and built the trust.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Okay, so is there a a main topic that you came in today wanting to discuss? Uh was there anything that because I would love for us to uh to discuss that.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, I mean I could go on and on still about all the different ways that you know, all the different intersections of comedy and things that aren't funny, you know, whether uh it could also be about social issues, it can also be about that aren't funny, you know, ice, not funny, but there are ways to make fun of to make fun. Obviously, there are ways to make fun of what's going on. And and and you know, you made me think of it when you were talking about whether your friends might or might not uh make fun of you, tease you. Um and and I think that they and you would always sense the difference between is this joke making fun of me or is this joke making fun of the ripples around what happened to me, right? Is this joke making is this joke making fun of, and you could do these jokes, like is this joke making fun of like the ridiculous reactions that you still have? Like now I can't even look at a fruity pebble or whatever it is, right? Right or just weird, and I mean you can tell these more than other people, but just like is it that you you know, your strong reactions to like really small details that remind you of that trauma? And that and it could be like you know, it could be like the color red, like it could be anything, and like I can't even eat an apple anymore, like whatever, that's not funny, but like but making it sort of self-effacing in a powerful way, which sounds like a paradox, but isn't but by the same token, like you know, you're you're you're whether it's about an individual or something catastrophic or awful in the world, it's about discerning am I making basically am I making fun of the victim or the bad guy? Or am I gently making fun of people who do their best to try to help, but we are imperfect and we don't know how. And an example I would think of is I was doing stand-up during the uh September 11th era and you know in New York. Yeah, and so for yeah, and so for quite a while, I don't remember if it was weeks or months, but you know, we it wasn't just like that the comedy club shut down, it was like laughter shut down. Like it was uh I mean, we didn't see we knew intellectually that someday in 25 years there would one day again be a sitcom or something, but it was like impossible in our bones to imagine. And I remember the people who kind of can't got out in front of it w were the onion. And they were the first, like you know, there was no TV, no one broadcast any comedy on television, like there was nothing. It was absolute comedy desert because we could it wasn't that we didn't think we should, it was that we couldn't. And the onion comes out swinging after being silent for whatever it was, weeks, months, with this with a special, like a special edition and a logo, and I'm gonna swear here, but it said the logo said, Holy fucking shit, America freaks out. And that was the like that was the and so and that tells you right then though that the jokes that they were making and the theme of the comedy that they created was not making fun of the victims, it was not making fun of New York, it was not even like making fun of terrorists, you know, because that's not fun, like they're I mean y yes, you can typically make fun of the bad guys, but they weren't funny yet because they weren't like bumbling bad guys, they were unfortunately very effective bad guys, so like it wasn't funny. They were like legit scary and there was nothing funny. But what they managed to do was make fun of the fact that we did not know how to respond and that we were fumbling in our response, and that made people feel less crazy. And they my favorite headline was especially people who didn't live in New York City or near the Pentagon, right? Or in Pennsylvania, and so where the other plane crashed, and so my favorite headline that they had was not knowing what else to do, Indiana woman bakes flag cake, which was so sweet, and it was so like it totally captured this feeling of like America's been attacked, but life here in Indiana is the same, except it's not, and I'm completely traumatized, but I'm not in New York, so I can't go look look at the walls of victims, and I can't, I'm gonna bake a flag cake, you know. And so it was very gently and lovingly making fun of our stupef stupefaction.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

Well, and even when you said that line, because I hadn't read that line, so even when you said it like I laughed, but I really thought of like how sweet and innocent and pure is that, and so so that laughter was almost like not that it was funny, but it was something that it was a reminder that I needed that people like that exist.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

You know, that's making fun of her, like sometimes the onion is making fun of sometimes. I do think I love the onion, God bless the onion. Same, say sometimes they punch down, like sometimes they make fun of like Florida man, you know, and and and he's just a dum-dum, you know, and I I get it, it's fine, it's the least of my worries. I'm not, it's fine, right? Um, but in that joke, they're not making fun of the woman.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

No, no, it's it's uh if anything, like I took this almost this sigh relief of there are still good people out there, and yeah, and so my laughter that came with that was because of just it again, it was this sigh relief that there's some good out there, and and there's a lot of bad, but there's a lot of good, and and sometimes we forget, and that just reminded me like I just picture this woman like thinking, like, I don't know what to do. I'm gonna bake a cake with a flag, and I'll take a piece to all my neighbors, you know, and that's just sweet.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

It's sweet, and also, but then but it's also comedy because like the word flag cake is funny, yeah, you know, and so it's like very well-written comedy because it's just those short, punchy words are funny, you know, it's not as funny as like not knowing what else to do. Indiana woman holds uh patriotic potluck, you know. It's like that's not funny, right? But flag cake is funny, and then you put it on the patriotic potluck. I did it, you know, like I did it, and I feel better. And you're like, yes, you do. Yeah. So I guess I just wanted to make sure we touched on also the the power of comedy around certainly around individual trauma. Yeah, but then also around talking about, yeah, talking about ice, talking about detention, talking about things that are absolutely not funny. And there's kind of a and there's a there's sort of a bridge between those two things because there's a lot of there's a lot of comics who talk about sexual assault. And that is obviously very tricky. And they talk about their own sexual assault, but the way they do it, and here's where the the bridge is between like individual trauma and topics that aren't funny, is that often what they do is make fun of like you know, rape culture. They'll make fun of the idea that like, well, he's captain of the swim team, he couldn't be a rapist, you know, like you could be both, and uh, and those things that are that are actually a national problem that affected this one person, but like making fun of the of the culture that in that keeps enabling it is 100% fair game. So that's why when people ask me, like, are there any topics that are off limits? I say no. There are jokes that are off limits. If you're making like I'm Jewish, my pants I I have one cousin who's who was not murdered in the Holocaust. Do I think Holocaust jokes are off limits? I do not. Yeah, it's just what's the joke? It better be a damn good joke. Right, you know, and who are you making fun of? What's your point? You know, it's not the topics. The topics are fully whether they're cathartic to those of us who have the generational trauma, that's one thing. Whether the jokes expose to other people who don't have that generational trauma, why we do, like that's all that's all really useful, you know. Um, those are not easy jokes to write, but the topic's not off limits.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

100%. Like, I I want us to talk about hate crimes. Now, do I want us to let point a finger and laugh at me because of me being a victim? Up no, but you know, like like anyway, like it's just not where the comedy is, it's not funny, but you know, we live in a different kind of America where some people do think things like that are funny, so there's that, but like but we're not writing jokes for them, we're not. Uh and and I'm not gonna be a part of those, you know what I mean? And but like like I had uh just I had a conversation with people, and uh one of the things I said that they've kind of laughed about, but then like wasn't sure if they could or not. And again, I wasn't doing it as a not a comedian, I'm not doing it as a joke, but you know, I had mentioned about how the guy that broke inside my house and raped me and beat me until he thought he murdered me and turned himself in for murder. He's a good-looking guy, he wouldn't have had to have raped me. Yeah, I I could do some dark stuff there, sure. Yeah, like I was uh three days into a breakup after you know a two-year relationship. We thought we were gonna build a house and get married and we broke up instead. Next step. And I a single dude, it would have been two consensual adults, he would not have had to rape me. I would he could have clapped his hands and my legs would have flown right up in the air. That's the truth. Um, but again, he's a military, self-identifying, straight man. It wasn't about it wasn't about him being gay or whatnot about attraction, it was about power, and you know, and and so so there's that difference. But people have been like, you kind of laugh when you say that. I'm like, well, this could have gone a totally different way. He could have just said, hey dude, you want to bang? And I would have said, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

But see, again, I mean that's a dark joke, and I and I get why it's like a little bit like but that joke is about him. It's not exactly, you know, I've heard straight women tell a similar joke about the about their attackers who basically make make fun of them and you're allowed to because that's punching up, right? Uh-huh. And make fun of them for being like, you're the you know, you're you're already good looking. You're the captain of the freaking t swim team. The fact that you have to attack women to you know to get your rocks off just makes you a loser. You know? And so like that's not the joke, but the joke would be right, right, yeah. So it's a similar joke, right? And and or it's a similar take. And so, but yeah, that's making it's punching up, it's making fun of that person, it's making fun of the culture that that you know, the you know, the patriarchy that tells them that they can that they have impunity, you know, it's all that stuff, but it's in the form of a joke. So people didn't come to hear a TED talk about rape culture and patriarchy, right? They came to a comedy show, and you know, if you the comic or as we said, giving them permission to laugh, you can go to those dark places and actually shine some light.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Yeah. You know, like so you were talking about ice, and there's a lot about ice that isn't funny, but there's some things that we could laugh at. Uh so so there's this little video where they put the derpy derp music to uh when when when they when the ice was in uh Minneapolis, and it was like ice is attacking ice because like these icemen would be running and they would slip on ice and fall, you know, like that's kind of funny to me. That's funny. Fair game.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

I don't mean to blame the victim, but that it's just fair game. They're they put it is all there are some jokes that are better than others, but it's always fair to punch up at power.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

You know, some again, some jokes are good, some jokes are just kind of mean, whatever, but it's always fair game.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Yeah, one of my favorites, and I know that uh Ellen de Generis is a lot of uh has been in and out of controversy, but I will say there was a time that uh Ellen de Generis was very powerful in my life, and she had a few stand-up shows, and one of them she someone had it's been many years since I've seen that and a couple of brain injuries since. So bear with, but someone was asking about you know what was it like coming out, and she was like, Oh, let me do an interpretive dance, and so she's you know, like like at one point she makes it seem like she's flocking through, you know, pretty things and in, you know, this meadow. And then all of a sudden there's dogs barking chasing her into traffic, and then you hear a car horn, and she's like dodging the car, and then she doesn't know what to do, and the music gets intense, like dun dun, dun, dun, and she gets down into like this you know position, and then she just stays there for a minute, and then all of a sudden there's this ting music, and she kind of pokes out, and that's when she's coming out, and then she stands up and she shakes it off. She shakes it off and she holds her head up high. And I'm getting chills even saying it, but like I that is the only interpretive dance I've ever really enjoyed, but it told a freaking good story that I was like, I know all of this, I know what it's like going to church as a gay man and and trying to be in the closet because of religion. And the preachers and up there saying, if you've ever kissed a boy, you're you have AIDS and you're gonna die. Like I was I was in the eight, I was an 80s baby. Like I've been in religion where they they've used those things as a weapon, you know. When my first kiss was a boy in church, and I was told by the church that I will get AIDS and die if I kiss a boy, and I just kissed a boy in the bathroom closet at church, and so now I'll go home thinking that I have AIDS, you know, like it was used as a weapon, and and so so the way that people were laughing and crafting and laughing at uh at the same time during that motivational uh or that or that interpretive dance kind of thing that she did, and even the reviews of people saying they walked away from it not understanding because they're straight, they or they haven't had anything like that. And so I guess that leads me to this like with you teaching and mentoring and and being in your career the way that you have, do you find it common that a lot of these comedians have gone through some terrible traumas?

SPEAKER_01 50:19

A r yes, and or but loosely defined, so a range of there's certainly a it's certainly trauma, not uh not everyone, you know, something that's just like jokes, but it could be trauma, could be just something crappy, could be also uh you know, we I know a lot of comics who are whether they're neurodivergent or just something something that makes them outside, something that makes them other. It could just be that they're queer, you know, which you know, which still is outside the mainstream, so which may or not have even been traumatic for them, like a range of experiences, but uh but you know it's not true that every comic comedy is not does not have to be informed by pain necessarily. Right. Um so it's not like oh they're all messed up, you know, it's not that, but it does give you does give you what to write about uh once you once you're especially once you've had some practice and you know are able to tackle the more challenging uh topics in a way that is appropriate to the topic, comfortable for the audience, etc. We once did a show for goal that was all everyone in the show was neurodivergent. And it was so funny because they were so self-evacing about like the what they would call like the weird shit that they do. And it was absolutely hilarious. And it really gave them a place to like not hide it, not have to pass whatever, you know, even what whether it's a random OCD habit or just the way that they, you know, do or don't read faces or whatever it was. It was just so but it was also really illuminating for those of us, you know, who who kind of can take them take a minute to understand what they're going through every minute, even as or going through is a strong word, maybe, but like what they're negotiating every minute that we don't while they kind of pass. And it was really illuminating. So so even just things like that I wouldn't call trauma, but but like something, something you're dealing with. Everyone's got something. And it's just a you know, a range, certainly a range. And comedy is really a great way to sort it in your own mind and then also communicate and illuminate it for others.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Well, I think what is so great too, and one thing that we don't do on this platform that uh I always make clear to people is we never try to compare traumas, right? Like what I went through is the hardest thing I went through. If if you're if you had a car accident and broke your thumb, and that is the hardest thing that you've ever went through, we can compare the two. That that's not fair, that's not fair to you, it's not fair to me. And and so I think that we we all have trauma and hardships and things that we've been through, they're they're different than others, but we can't say what is bigger or greater, right? And that's one thing that I've always appreciated about comedy is we have a lot of uh comedy places here, you know, that that I'll get tickets and go to. And and when I walk in there, I know that we're all gonna be made fun of, and we're all there for the same goal, and it's to laugh. And when the lights go down, not even when lights go down, when you walk into that building, you can feel that it doesn't matter what race you are, what sexual orientation you are, what gender you are or sex you identify, nothing matters. We're all there to have a cocktail, maybe some greasy bar food, and a fucking laugh. And so, so then okay, so as we're starting to bring um this closer to an end, do you have a segment in in your teaching courses um where you talk about and and guide people on hecklers? Like I've seen so many things go viral here lately on social media with hecklers, and some people know how to handle them very well.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

Yeah, we do teach we teach a workshop on crowd work where that comes up a little bit. I think that you see it, you think it not you, but one thinks it happens more than it does because you you often see like moments on social. Right. It's not that it doesn't happen, but most of the times if it does, you don't see it on social because 99% of the time the audience doesn't it, the audience is on your side, not the heckler. And so the audience also doesn't really care if you make the heckler into something hilarious. The audience doesn't want you to like change the show for one dipshit, right? So typically it's like if someone's heckling, you're like, got the talking stick, or you know, whatever, just something, you know, and then they stop or the people around them are like Bruce, wow, shut up. So it typically it's something that you get used to because it happens every now and then, but it's not like a whole thing you need a class on because once you're comfortable enough on stage, you can figure out you know, you can figure out how to move past it. And like if they get really bad, like again, it's it won't be on you to save the day. It'll because the crowd will be on will not be on your side. They're gonna do everything. The thing they never do is to be mean to Heckler because that'll then they'll turn on you, right? But comics know that. So it's a little bit of a you know, it's always an interesting question, but it's a little bit of a red herring because yeah, if they're really bad, someone from the club is gonna come and bring them out. Like, and if they're not, then you can usually pretty much go and they'll be quiet.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

You're right though, because even though I've been to hundreds of comedy shows and I've never seen a heckler in real life. Yeah, I've seen on social media, and of course the ones they put on social media is because there's some kind of like funny behind it, right? I guess I haven't thought about that, which I guess that also shows how like those things work, right? Like, because I think that I see it on social media means it happens to every comedian, every show. Whenever I go to the next show, it's gonna happen. You had mentioned crowd work. And there are some comedians that I'd rather see their crowd work than their actual skit performance. So what what and you all do have a class on that, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Yeah, we offer a workshop every now and then.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

A workshop, okay.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yeah, and what it takes, what it means, when to do it. It's really about when to do it, why to do it, where to do it, like when to bother, when to not. Um, some comics are great at it and they make it their whole act. Um, some comics, you know, it's just not their jam. But you know, but there's also a middle ground where it's nice to sort of spend a few minutes at the beginning if you have time, you know, being like, so where are you where are people from? You know, and and I think the key thing is to just be discerning about about when to bother, unless it's your thing. And then also to not to never try to be funny. Just because it's never a bad idea to just get to know the audience a little bit if you have the time. And they're not necessarily gonna expect you, oh, so what do you do? I'm a lawyer, lawyer joke, you know, like they're not gonna if you just say like, oh, what kind of law, like then you're just having a conversation. And if you don't have a joke, or if there's no obvious joke, then you can say like nice to meet you, and then you move on to the next person or move on with your set, but then you might remember that there's a lawyer right there. So if something comes up later and all you do is go, you understand, then the audience thinks that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

Hilarious. You're right. Like when you when you bring when you bring those little things back in, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Like but it's not even like a fully formed joke, it's just that you remembered who you talk to. So it can be useful in those ways. That's like the level of crowd work I used to do. I never did a whole big thing with it, but I would remember.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

And sometimes sometimes it's just the side eye, right? Like if you're talking to a person over here and they mention like, oh, I'm going through a divorce and child custody and all this, but you just got done talking to a lawyer and you look over at the lawyer and you're like, you know, you give that, yeah, like that's hilarious to me.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

You two should talk.

SPEAKER_03 58:31

I mean, it's just not or or hey, I know a good lawyer, you know, like that's just hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Exactly. So it's not about like being hilarious, it's about it's uh or or like finding the funniest, most elaborate joke. It's just about from listening and remembering, and remembering it's a conversation, and it's probably not that different from a con for like a from a joke you'd make at a dinner party, you know, where you'd be like, I should talk to that guy, or whatever it is, you know.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

So there was one time I was a part of a crowd work that was I I took it as the highest compliment, and people thought it was funny because it kept coming back, but like he was talking about how the comedian was talking about how like he's a new father, how you know he's exhausted, bags under his eyes, all this stuff. And then he was like, you know, are there any parent, you know, new parents or whatever? And so he was going through the crowd and he was like, Oh, you've got kids, and he went on, and then he came across me, and I was the one in front row, and he was like, Man, he said, You look so damn good. I don't know if you've ever even babysot a kid, and I had just I had just gotten Botox. And so, like, I was like, Thank you. And then, and so like later on throughout a different conversation, it came up something came up again about you know looking young and youthful. And he he looked back at me and he was like, you know, and so it's fun, and then like when we went, um, when we went to the bar after the show, like people kept coming up to me and they're like, I wish I looked as good as you. Like, you've probably never seen a baby, you know, and they were buying me drinks, so I'll take it. I wasn't even part of the show, but I'll let you buy me drinks.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

It's just it's like I'm it's like community building for one hour.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:08

Yeah, yeah. I love it. Yeah, I love that. So, okay, I'm I'm going through your email here because I want to make sure that we discuss everything. I love these conversations. You uh I want you to know how much laughter has helped me heal and that I don't want to ever say I'm I don't know that I've ever been suicidal. I don't know that my life has ever gotten to that point. I can't say that I wouldn't have, but luckily it didn't. But I've heard so many stories. I've even had people write me and say, David, sometimes I listen to your episode and you're you're talking, you know, when you when you go into full detail of what happened to you. And there are times that you laugh, and and I just don't I don't get that. I don't I don't know how to do that, and that you do it, and that helps give me permission to do it. And that is just so powerful. It takes me back, you know, to what I've already said before, but I truly remember and I wish I had my kitchen on camera because I truly heard my laughter for the first time in a long time, and I was like, holy fuck, I missed that. And that was also the one and and very few times I've been able to point something out about me that I didn't know how much I loved and missed, and was determined to get it back. And so there I I I just want to give out a thank you to people with doing what you're doing and and being a part of what you do because the people that I follow, you know, are those comedians, the ones that I know that we're gonna laugh at me. We're gonna laugh with me. And and we're gonna we're we might find something about me that you know we joke about, but we're gonna laugh together. And then we're moving on to the next person because there's something about all of us, whether it's community, whether it's individual, that we can laugh. And laughter to me is celebration as long as we're laughing with. And so I just I really appreciate you and and what you're doing and the comedians that I know and follow that I will probably never even have the honor to even see or talk to. But it it has been one of the most healing places in my life through through what is my big trauma. And so thank you so much for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

I am so glad to hear it. I'm glad you're on your you reach this part of your journey and that comedy laughter has helped. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

So now I'm wondering if I should challenge myself and take some of your work courses at our workshops and see if I could become a comedian. Because I'm I'm in I'm in the era of my life where I want to challenge myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

I encourage everyone, I really do. And you don't have to, you know, be a certain kind of person. You don't have to be less shy, not you, but you know, one doesn't have to be less shy or more loud or more confident, you know, it's just w your comedy comes from you. And uh sometimes you just turn up the volume a little bit on who you already are, and and yeah, you it's I tell everyone to give it a try. Because you never know. We have people who give it a try and actually go into stand up. And it also offers sketch and production and uh late night writing, and there's all different you don't have to be a performer. You might just be like, I don't want I want to do lights and sound for digital sketches. You know, you don't even have to I just want to be near comedy. I don't I don't know I don't see myself on stage. Like that's a thing too. So yeah, the doors open.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:49

I love that. Like no, I and seriously I want to check it out because one of the I hate resolutions because like my New Year's resolution is to not have a New Year's resolution because I'm gonna break it. I'm I won't I'm gonna I'm gonna fail. But I want to be in an era of trying things um that are outside of my comfort zone. And I've gotten used to being behind the camera, but like if you go back to four years ago when I first started uh doing podcasting, I was out on YouTube. I would do Zoom face to face, but it was only audio. I didn't want the public to see my face. I joined TikTok like a year ago. I didn't want my face to be seen. I, you know, I hated my voice, but I hated my face more. And so to accomplish those things have been big milestones for me. And I'm like, my story was meant to be even the the night of my hate crime, it was meant to be funny. I went to a karaoke bar. I the last song I sang, and it's on surveillance, was Shania Twain, man. I felt like a woman, you know, like that I I just there are things to laugh about. There's funny parts of that story, you know. Like I was on karaoke at a straight bar, which is where he saw me and ended up following me home. But that there are parts of that story that could be funny while also telling my story to get the real message out there, you know, of we don't rape people. We if you don't like me because I'm gay, fine. Don't marry me, don't have sex with me. Don't do it, don't break inside my house and put my pants down. Don't do that. It's that it should be that simple.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

It should be that simple.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

It should be that simple.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:38

If you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't marry me. And if I ask you, tell me no. Like it's okay, you can reject me without your fist.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

Yep, you've got the start of a whole bit there. Yeah, I'm happy to provide information to your listeners. I'll, you know, I'll send I'll send along some. Some stuff that you can put in the show notes and invite anyone listening to kind of find a safe way to explore some of this stuff. Or okay, because yeah, you really can.

unknown 1:06:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

I would love that. Linda Harris, thank you so much. This is exactly what this show is supposed to be about. And thank you for having this hour with me. But I seriously, I want to take one of your workshops. I want to check in on this. I think it could be fun. I want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

I will send you the info. We will welcome you.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Yes, absolutely. Well, I hope to have you back. Yes, thank you so much. And I will share all the links to your books and everything. Your your email, I think, has some great links in it. If I need anything, I'll let you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:40

And uh I'll send you a discount code for you and your listeners. How about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:44

Oh, I love that. Thank you so, so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:47

Well, thank you so much. And I can't wait to have you back. Maybe, maybe you'll come back after I do some workshops and I will share some jokes with you and see how they land.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

Do it.

unknown 1:06:58

Do it. Cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:59

Thank you so much, Lynn. Um, is there anything is there any place that you want to let other westerners know to find you that I can share the links to as well?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

Yeah, sure. It'll I'll it'll be in the show notes. But if you can't wait for to read the show notes, you can go right to goldcomedy.com or uh Instagram, goldcomedy.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:17

Perfect. And like I said, I'll share all the notes. Thank you so so much, and we'll talk very soon, okay?