Gender is Public Health - Men and Body Dysmorphia

Lookmaxxing is a dangerous and concerning trend affecting young men, and a perfect example of the connection between rigid beauty standards and mental health issues. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome back to Everything is Public Health. I'm MJ.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

And I'm Cass.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Um, hate to do this to you.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

We didn't even get past the like we just two seconds past the introduction. It's fine. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

How caught up are you with the right wing social media ecosystem?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Not. I mean, I have some family members.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Acquaintances who gravitate towards the right wing of things that are on my Facebook feed. I pretty much only go onto Facebook to check events. There are some local music groups that have events that only post on Facebook or to poke.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Is that still a thing?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Yes, it is. We have a poke war going on.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Other than that, I avoid the right wing social media. My social media is like baby animals and cocktails and food and sports.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

You know what? That is a great life decision. I don't recommend anyone venturing anywhere near that space, nor do I recommend anyone to still be on Facebook because that's sort of what it has turned into. If you're a band or a business that exclusively use Facebook, please diversify. I'm begging you. I'm begging those people, please diversify. Anyway, it's a terrible place from what I can see. I don't venture into that space either, but I am an observer from afar by reading, listening to podcasts, and watching video essays about it. On one of those podcasts, I learned about a concerning new trend plaguing young men. This is scary because there are already many things plaguing young men in this country. Cass, are you familiar with the term look maxing?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

I mean, I'm familiar with the use of filters and things like that to make yourself look better. I'm familiar with the idea of like there are people who don't like a particular part of their body and they'll work as hard as they can at it, but sometimes do surgery. Like there was a whole show about a guy who was really buff, but he had chicken legs and he was really upset about how skinny his calves were. So he ended up having calf implants, but then like still wasn't happy and was a little bit like, oh, I kind of regret doing this because like I worked so hard to build everything else naturally. That's probably not what you are talking about. Probably some more extreme version isolated to social media. But generally, I would imagine making yourself look as best as possible by whatever means you could afford or won't get you killed.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

You're on the green to use a golf term, which I hate that sport. I don't know why I use that golf term, but you're you're close.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I'm in the red zone.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

You're in the red zone. There we go. Um you're close, however, it's worse. Of course it is. Because of course everything in 2026 is worse. So look maxing is a deeply concerning trend among a segment of the far right young men. The simplest definition is men, and yes, this is mainly a man thing, trying to maximize their physical attractiveness to a specific ideal, put a pin in this, by seemingly any means necessary. Now, that doesn't sound problematic on its face, but once you dig a little past the surface to see exactly what these people are doing, you will be, shall we say, disturbed. And now it's time for everyone's favorite quiz show. Cass makes an educated guess with our one and only contestant, Cass. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Sure. Let's go for it.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

In this game format, I'm going to say a particular thing that these people are doing, and you have to tell me whether it is true or if it's made up by yours truly.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

First up, hitting your jaws and cheekbones with a hammer or some other blunt object to reshape them via encouraging bone growth, a practice they call bone smashing. Is this real or fake?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

I would really hope it's fake, but given the premise with which you've set up this episode, I'm going to say it's real.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

It is a little bit of both. It's real in that it is a real term that they're using. However, a lot of people are starting to find that a lot of these people are using this term ironically. So even though like they do it for the camera, but it's really hard to determine whether they actually do this off camera and like whether they believe it. But in terms of the term, it is absolutely a term that belongs in this look maxing space.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Second term. Sucking your tongue against a roof of your mouth in an effort to reshape your face to make it look more chiseled, a practice they called mewing. Real or fake.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

I mean, I know people definitely suck the tongue against the roof of their mouth to reshape their face. I don't know whether they call it mewing, but that is a real thing that people do.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

That is real, and it is called mewing.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Oh, interesting. Well, I shouldn't be surprised. Duck lipping was a thing that was very popular when I was a wheel ass.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Mm-hmm. Uh, it's the slightly more disturbed male version of duck lipping, I guess. It's called mewing. All right, next term. Restricting eating to achieve a more skinny looking face, a practice they call starv maxing. Real or fake.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

I mean, if you go on a severe diet, you're going to be skinnier and have a skinnier looking face. Real, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

It is also real, and they do call us starv maxing for some reason. Jesus. Last term, I promise. Withholding sexual climax in an effort to boost testosterone level, a practice they called edging. Real or fake?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Real? I would have called it tantric sex back in the day, but I'm sure they've got some stupid new name for it.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

So yes, they do call it edging. So congratulations. All four are real.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Uh congratulations! That's not a thing to be congratulated on. That's terrifying. It's sad.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

It is terrifying. And it is sad. I didn't have to make up anything because there's enough crazy stuff to go around that I simply do not need to reinvent something. I could go on, but let's just go through the rest of this list very quickly. They are doing limb lengthening surgeries, specifically their femur. Very painful, difficult surgery for so that they could lengthen their height by a few inches. Have you seen those?

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Having had to get my arm broken and shortened and put plates and screws in because of the damage from when I fell. That was horrible. I can't imagine lengthening. Oh God, that would be so painful.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Also, voluntarily. Like you had to do it because you broke your arm. These people are doing it voluntarily. Hormone injections, specifically testosterone injections, not surprising. Although I do want to point out how funny it is because when trans people do it, it's bad. But when cis men do it, it's somehow okay, even though they're injecting hormones in themselves. We're not going to get into that. Doing anabolic steroids, this is not new. Um doing meth to suppress appetite. Now that's, I guess, also not new, but they're doing it on purpose. Injecting unproven and unregulated peptides to change face shape and manipulate metabolism. Yeah, you're losing it.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

I'm sorry. I just no, I was reflecting on something that one of my faculty members said when I was doing my master's at Drexel, as we would talk about like all things in moderation. There are lots of things that could be bad for you that would be fine if you did them in moderation. And I remember my, I'm pretty sure it was my biostat instructor who was like, except for meth and heroin, like don't do those in any, but like lots of other things in moderation are fine. And so that was the what was playing through my mind.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Yeah, there are certain drugs where even a little bit is like kind of bad for you. So um, meth and heroin definitely being one of them. Um, they also do DIY orthodontics.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Oh, that's terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Is terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Especially because like your teeth, as we've talked about before, aren't net technically considered part of your body, and like coverage for dental stuff is not the same as coverage for medical stuff, and like you don't want to be messing up your mouth, man.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

No, it costs a lot of money if you do something wrong, and some of them have. And the last point, measuring facial features to see how optimal they are. What common theme have you noticed?

SPEAKER_00 7:29

I mean, I'm hearing that there clearly someone somewhere has decided that there is some kind of ideal way that people should look or be or whatever, and that this is all towards making yourself look that way. And it's all things that you probably shouldn't be doing without some supportive medical advice and or at all, potentially very concerning for sure.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

A thing that I notice is that all of these things they don't seem to be coming from a place of like, I want to feel better about myself. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the way that the fitness industry and social media and beauty companies and all of these products, their goal is to make you feel bad so that you will buy their product because that is the magic thing that will make you feel better about yourself as opposed to, you know, taking the time to know yourself and love yourself and accept yourself for who you are. That doesn't mean you can't put in work to go to the gym or run or whatever. But like there isn't a magic way to make yourself like yourself. Like you have to actually put in the work to do that.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

I have to put in the work. Of course, I listed the more concerning practices. They do have less extreme practices that they do as part of their look maxing realm, including going to the gym, skincare routine, haircuts, skin whitening and teeth whitening, etc. However, I would like to point out that this trend is deeply rooted in toxin masculinity and in cell culture. And their motivation for going to the gym and skincare, et cetera, is not to make themselves feel better, but to, and I quote, surpass genetic potential, end quote. We are not here to comment on the fact of doing things to change your physical appearance. That's not the problem per se. It's specifically the how and why that's concerning.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Sure. So for some instances, skin whitening might not be problematic, but if you're whitening your skin because you think white skin is inherently superior to black skin or other skin colors or tones, which is what look maxers are doing, that's where it becomes problematic.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Yeah, and uh act of measuring facial features to see how optimal they are. Very close to phrenology and eugenics, like just a stone throws away from going back there, which is again Stone's throw. Stone's throw. What did I say? Stone throws?

unknown 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

MJ can't grammar. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

This is a public health podcast. We're not here to do a cultural deep dive on this new, very concerning trend amongst young boys and men. I will link some stuff that looks more into this from a philosophical perspective. But today we're gonna focus on the health aspect. All of this is just an inspiration for the episode. When learning more about this problematic trend, I read a comment which said, quote, these men just have undiagnosed body dysmorphia, end quote. And that got me thinking about the effects of unrealistic beauty standards in general and what health effects they have on people, particularly young people. They tend to be the most vulnerable population when it comes to beauty standards. And at this point, we have to answer the obligatory question: why is this public health?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Mental health concerns of young people under the burden of unrealistic beauty standards is a big concern, body dysmorphia being one of them. When you have unrealistic beauty standards for both men and women, this can lead to pursuing risky solutions, some of which are harmful or may not be reversible or may have long-term consequences. Women have experienced this for decades. You know, you think about the Victoria's Secret lingerie shows and Playboy magazines and all these things, you know, even long before the advent of social media, there have been standards that women have felt like they needed to hold themselves to or that the society was holding them to, which has fueled diet culture, extreme weight loss, like yo-yo dieting, lose a bunch of weight, gain it back, eating disorders, anorexia, bulimia, which has one of the highest mortality rates for all mental disorders. It can cause really long-term problems, damage to your internal organs and things like that. Cosmetic surgery, some is riskier than others. For example, the Brazilian butt lift involves injecting fat into the butt, which carries the risk of fat embolism. It has the highest mortality rate of all cosmetic surgeries. But as I mentioned with the anecdote of that guy who got the calf implants because he like wanted to have that part of his body match the rest of his body. And then like that still wasn't the thing that made him happy. Like people are often chasing. And you may have seen people who they probably had more cosmetic surgeries than would be otherwise beneficial, thinking that they needed them because they were chasing some ideal of what they should look like. I've heard stories before of people who were shopping around to different plastic surgeons because somebody cut them off after too many surgeries, but they sort of still hadn't gotten to the place where they thought they needed to look. And this is going to sound like dismissive and trite, but I cannot stress enough the grass is rarely greener on the other side. And if you're chasing something that you think is going to be what makes you happy, it's probably not the case. The grass is going to be green where you water it and taking the time to know yourself, learn about yourself, love yourself. Like that is a really important thing. And I say all that recognizing that body dysmorphia and other issues are true mental health disorders. So I'm not trying to minimize that in any way. But for many of these folks, they aren't going to achieve what they are looking for by chasing this beauty ideal.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Yeah. And I love that quote: the grass is greener where you water it. And I think that's a very important mindset to have, especially when it comes to like beauty standards. Another thing that I've noticed with these beauty standards is that they tend to be frozen in a particular age bracket. The ideal beauty is someone in their 20s. And hello, everyone, age. So eventually you're fighting a losing battle. And that has led to some really, you know, some really drastic actions that some people do.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah. And I was watching this woman who had a video. She's a female physio. I think she's maybe in Australia, but she was talking about the way that women are misled about what their bodies should be like at different points in time. And that's absolutely pre-puberty bodies are different than post-puberty bodies, which are different if you have children versus when you're going through perimenopause and menopause and postmenopausal. Like our bodies age and they are meant to change over time. If bodies aren't changing, then there's probably an underlying health issue, right? Something might be wrong. But women in particular, and unfortunately now men as well, are being told, oh, your body has changed. Therefore, there is a problem that we are going to monetize and make you pay us to get you back to what is not possible to get back to, but you're going to be chasing this thing, as opposed to just accepting that as we get older, our bodies change. And guess what? My 43-year-old body does not work nearly so well as my 23-year-old body used to work. But that's life. That's 20 years of experience that I have.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yeah. My knees make noise now.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Oh, welcome to the crepitus.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah, welcome to um 30. Another thing, you you brought up like a woman's body. Another thing that I learned, I think a few years ago, where women have a little pouch below their belly button.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Under the belly button. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

That is to protect your uterus. That little pouch of fat is there because your uterus is there and it needs to protect your uterus. And if you try to like lose your belly fat, you're fighting against yourself.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

You're fighting against evolution.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Yes. Another thing that I thought about this is people are throwing the term body dysmorphia around when describing these look maxers, but it got me thinking, like, well, you know, that's be grounded to the science. Like, what actually is body dysmorphia?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

So the DSM V, which is the go-to source of descriptions of different mental health and disorders and mental illnesses, describes it as a preoccupation with non-existent or slight defects or flaws and physical appearance. There's benchmarks of how many hours they spend preoccupied about this issue in order to qualify according to the DSM. Repetitive, compulsive behaviors regarding this preoccupation is there as well. And this can manifest in many different ways from classic signs like constantly washing or moisturizing your face, but also more subtle signs like drinking water constantly to hydrate. In terms of clinical significance, there has to be a significant impact on social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. So this is really important. If you are concerned about your appearance, but it doesn't have a negative impact on other aspects of your life, it probably doesn't reach the point of this diagnosis. And it's not an eating disorder. That is a separate piece, separate and distinct from body dysmorphia.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

So to answer the question, is the dangerous right wing look maxing trend body dysmorphia? And it's really hard to say because while they certainly fall into the first two criteria preoccupation with flaws, uh non-existent or slight defects in their appearance, and repeated compulsive behavior, like mewing, for example, or bone smashing, god forbid, that actually is a thing. They fall into those two categories, but it's difficult to assess the clinical significance without examining each individual case. And this is the case for a lot of these mental disorders. Like if it's not impacting your life, it doesn't qualify. So a lot of people say, Oh, I'm afraid of heights, but are you afraid of heights to the point where you can't climb a ladder or you can't like go up a flight of stairs? If it doesn't affect your life, then it's technically not a phobia. And the same thing applies here. So I don't know. I'm not a doctor.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

I am a doctor, just not that kind.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

But I think it's also the important additional piece of information to consider is that being on social media, how many of these people are either trying to be influencers or are influencers and are making money off of these videos where they're posting about look maxing? And so maybe somebody is talking about these things and it looks like they're preoccupied or it looks like they're doing these compulsive behaviors, but it's only when they're on video and otherwise they're perhaps not pursuing that. So that would be a consideration as well. Sort of how much is this just trying to get views on videos versus being a like a legitimate concern that folks have?

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah. So to answer the question, while it is certainly concerning, I'm always the one to say, don't throw mental health terms around because then it dilutes the people who actually have the disorders. And I guess I want to have a little discussion. We haven't had one of these in a while. Um, what is the line between self-improvement and self-harm? Like, at what point is this attempt to improve physical appearance too much? Because I also don't want to fall into the other side, which is like, oh my God, you got Botox. I also don't want to fall into that side where you're shaming people for like getting these microsurgeries, which they're perfectly in their right to do. So what's the line?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Probably somebody far smarter than us could articulate what that line is.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Email us. Let us know.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, but I think a few things that we've talked about that I would re-up for consideration is like if it comes to the point where your focus on your physical appearance is negatively impacting your ability to just generally engage with your friends, your workplace, you know, activities of daily daily living kind of thing. That's where I think it becomes probably more harmful than just otherwise being framed as self-improvement. And the other thing that I was thinking about as we have been recording is I'm somebody who runs every day.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Impressive.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

It's good for me, keeps me healthy, but it's also like good for my mental health. Like I feel better physically and mentally after I go running. And people in my house don't like it if I don't run for too many days in a row because I start to get a little anxious.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

And that's a way like I'm improving myself. I find it meditative, right? It's good for me and it checks off a whole bunch of boxes and generally makes me a better version of myself. But if I was like, oh, I can't go do X because I have to go run, and like it becomes this so regimented thing where it's detracting from other aspects of my life as opposed to improving things. I think that's one consideration for when it may become something more toxic or harmful.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Yeah, I would also fall somewhere along where you just said, like, when you do this, are you happier? I think that's like a very core question to ask. Like, and I would say for a lot of these like incel adjacent look maxers, I don't think they're happier. They certainly don't act that way. That they're just like, oh, now I have a chiseled jaw, and then they're still preoccupied with like sleeping with women, which is these toxic men are preoccupied with. So at the end of the day, if it doesn't make you happier, like when you do this, do you feel better about yourself? Or are you just constantly chasing that high? And if that's the case, perhaps reassess.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah, it's been a little while since I talked about the Happiness Lab podcast, which is one of my favorite ones.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yeah, it's a good one. I think they're still going.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And, you know, they talk a lot about the need to chase the next thing. Like that's the thing that's gonna make me happy. When I get promoted, then I'll be happier. Or when I get this new car, I'll be happier. As opposed to figuring out how can I be happy now? How can I make the grass that I'm standing on greener by tending where I am right now, as opposed to if it's a thing that you think is gonna make you happy, probably it won't. And so just to sort of build off of your point, I think the sort of chasing, whether it's physical attributes or whatever it is, I would imagine that many of these folks are probably not as happy as they could be if they just um took a little time to get to know themselves better.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Yeah. Also, if the beauty standard that you're chasing is so rigid that you're measuring your jawline, or like this is the ideal face shape and everything else is wrong, I would call that incredibly problematic.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

You know, something so interesting. Lots of people talk about you need to have a symmetrical face in order to be attractive and like all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

They're upset with symmetry.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

I just remember this so much. Tom Cruise, who for a very long time and maybe even still was thought to be one of the most attractive men in the world, he probably was in like the GQ or People magazine's most attractive people. His face is not symmetrical.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

And most celebrities' face are not symmetrical.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Right. And so this idea that, oh, I need to measure my face and have it be this particular way because that's the ideal, it's actually not. Like maybe for one person, like that works out to make them attractive, but there are lots of attractive people whose faces are not symmetrical.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Yeah, definitely. So look maxers, I didn't mention this, but they are obsessed with symmetry, which is again a very problematic ideal to try to strive forwards.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

I assumed the measuring had something to do with. Symmetry.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

So definitely. Second discussion question. Where do you think these beauty standards come from? And how do we combat them? Like you have kids, especially when talking with younger people. Like if one day one of your kids is like, you know, I want to try bone smashing. Oh, God forbid. But like, how do you talk to younger people who may fall into this? And like, how do we combat this?

SPEAKER_00 22:19

I mean, my kids thankfully aren't really on social media. So I don't anticipate that that would be a thing that would happen. I think where it comes from, that is a good question. I mean, if it was sort of more traditional media, obviously Hollywood, male-controlled businesses that are selling products for women and sort of selling the ideal of what women should look like, those are sort of the traditional sources. But when it comes to some of these more social media pieces, I I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah. It seems to come out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

I'm not sure. But in terms of counteracting them, I mean, just having the kinds of conversations that we're having right now. What is it that you're looking for from this thing that you want to do? What is it that you hope will be the outcome? What alternatives could we explore to try to get you there before you take this choice that may or may not have long-term harm? What are other folks doing? Not those look max or people, but what are other folks doing to try to achieve happiness or self-improvement, right? What are some different strategies that we could try first? I think is probably the best. I mean, the thing that took me a very long time to learn for a whole bunch of reasons is nobody else is gonna love you or like you as they should if you don't like yourself and love yourself the way that you should. And so making sure to prioritize really getting to know who you are and the things that bring you joy and leaning into that as much as possible because that's how you find real happiness. There you go. Philosophy of Cass.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Wow, so good. Um, I would echo that you have to learn to essentially love yourself, first and foremost, and understand that connection with other people and relationship is not built on deceit. I didn't want to get into this because that's a whole can of worms, but this is very much like an incel culture thing. Like when they're maximizing their appearances, they're doing so under the assumption that they are very toxic assumption that, well, women are superficial. Like if my jaw doesn't look like this, then they're not gonna sleep with me. And I think I would say to that is wouldn't you want someone to like you because they like you and not because of your jawline? I feel like that isn't real, a jawline that you manufactured, manufactured by bone smashing or god forbid, some other highly risky surgery. Like, wouldn't you want that connection to be real instead of superficial? Like, you are creating the problem that you're saying is a problem. So I guess the micro-good of this episode is learn to love yourself first. Those beauty standards are oftentimes manufactured and for both men and women, manufactured by men. Their chiseled jawline and I don't know, the forehead length or whatever. Ironically, they're not what women find attractive. Like, do you know this meme? It's a real thing. Some guy posted a before and after picture of his body. Like, this is before I did a really rigorous workout routine, and this is after I did this routine, and then the before he looked like a, I don't know, normal man, maybe like a little bit chubby in the shoulders and stomach. And after he was a super shredded, and he asked.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Oh, and I'm sure the women said he was more attractive before, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yeah, absolutely. And then he started freaking out. So I'm just saying, these beauty ideals, who are they for? Who made them? Think about it. Like the grass is greener where you water it, I guess. That's the philosophy that we'll end on.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yeah. And I will say, although this is not as free as we tend to make our micro goods, I highly recommend that everybody does a little bit of therapy at some point in their life. Figure out what makes you tick, figure out how your parents screwed you up so that you can fix yourself and, you know, go forth and be happier in your life.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Yeah. May I recommend every student do this because most universities have free mental health counseling and some companies also offer like these services.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah. Student assistant programs, employee assistance programs, definitely check those out.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

I cannot stress this enough. When you're a student and it's free, you gotta take advantage of it. You gotta, you gotta do it. It's not gonna be free anymore after you leave the school.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

One of my one of my colleagues who is an adjunct faculty member, she was telling the story about this young guy that was in one of her classes, and he would always say, If it's free, it's for me. And I just love that so much.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah. So, you know, if you're a student, take advantage of those things. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Everything is Public Health. New episode every other week. If you like the show, please tell everyone you know about the show. This helps us immensely. Commenting, subscribing, and leaving us a review helps us a bunch as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

If you have any questions or think we missed an important perspective, you can reach out to us at everything ispublichealth at gmail.com. Follow our website, everything is publichealth.com, for all show updates and bonus material. And remember, everything is public health.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Everything is public health.