{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":2.6,"endTime":8.51,"body":"- [Woman] Enterprise Management 360, your"},{"startTime":2.6,"endTime":8.51,"body":"main source for tech news, analysis, podcasts,"},{"startTime":8.51,"endTime":10.555,"body":"and videos for the enterprise."},{"startTime":13.3,"endTime":16.24,"body":"- [Max] Hello, and welcome"},{"startTime":13.3,"endTime":16.24,"body":"to this \"EM360 Podcast.\""},{"startTime":16.24,"endTime":22.39,"body":"My name is Max Kurton, head of content here"},{"startTime":16.24,"endTime":22.39,"body":"at EM360, and your host on today's episode."},{"startTime":22.39,"endTime":27.81,"body":"Now today, I'm being joined by Matt Klassen,"},{"startTime":22.39,"endTime":27.81,"body":"who's the VP of Worldwide Marketing at Parasoft."},{"startTime":27.81,"endTime":31.575,"body":"Now, Matt recently did a podcast with"},{"startTime":27.81,"endTime":31.575,"body":"us presented by Steve Hendrick of EMA,"},{"startTime":31.575,"endTime":35.925,"body":"and they were discussing chasing"},{"startTime":31.575,"endTime":35.925,"body":"continuous software quality."},{"startTime":35.925,"endTime":38.855,"body":"And in today's episode, we're going"},{"startTime":35.925,"endTime":38.855,"body":"to be expanding on that a little bit"},{"startTime":38.855,"endTime":43.695,"body":"further to understand the need and"},{"startTime":38.855,"endTime":43.695,"body":"effect it has on people and organizations."},{"startTime":43.695,"endTime":45.915,"body":"So, Matt, welcome back to an \"EM360 Podcast.\""},{"startTime":45.915,"endTime":47.235,"body":"It's great to have you on today."},{"startTime":47.235,"endTime":48.585,"body":"- [Matt] Hey, great to be here."},{"startTime":48.585,"endTime":49.185,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"startTime":49.185,"endTime":50.685,"body":"- Great to have you."},{"startTime":50.685,"endTime":55.375,"body":"And looking forward to kind of delving into this"},{"startTime":50.685,"endTime":55.375,"body":"discussion, because feel like you and Steve did a"},{"startTime":55.375,"endTime":58.925,"body":"great job of going over this"},{"startTime":55.375,"endTime":58.925,"body":"continuous software quality."},{"startTime":58.925,"endTime":62.643,"body":"And I want to give our current listeners"},{"startTime":58.925,"endTime":62.643,"body":"a bit of a recap on that if we can."},{"startTime":62.643,"endTime":66.543,"body":"So if you won't mind just starting"},{"startTime":62.643,"endTime":66.543,"body":"us off with, what is continuous quality?"},{"startTime":66.543,"endTime":67.413,"body":"- Sure."},{"startTime":67.413,"endTime":72.323,"body":"So I'm going to start with what continuous quality"},{"startTime":67.413,"endTime":72.323,"body":"is not, because I think this is more the norm"},{"startTime":72.323,"endTime":73.343,"body":"in the world."},{"startTime":73.343,"endTime":79.733,"body":"It's not a testing box or step just"},{"startTime":73.343,"endTime":79.733,"body":"before the delivery of software, right?"},{"startTime":79.733,"endTime":83.723,"body":"Should be obvious, but continuous"},{"startTime":79.733,"endTime":83.723,"body":"quality is a paradigm shift to integrate"},{"startTime":83.723,"endTime":92.185,"body":"quality and testing practices into your"},{"startTime":83.723,"endTime":92.185,"body":"CI/CD process or DevOps, and ultimately,"},{"startTime":92.185,"endTime":96.505,"body":"throughout the entire lifecycle"},{"startTime":92.185,"endTime":96.505,"body":"from software design to delivery."},{"startTime":96.505,"endTime":101.915,"body":"So it really means that everybody owns quality,"},{"startTime":96.505,"endTime":101.915,"body":"and everybody needs to shift their mindset."},{"startTime":101.915,"endTime":103.515,"body":"- Excellent explanation."},{"startTime":103.515,"endTime":105.635,"body":"I think that's a perfect way to put it."},{"startTime":105.635,"endTime":110.815,"body":"So what is it that enterprises are seeking to"},{"startTime":105.635,"endTime":110.815,"body":"accomplish with software testing tools?"},{"startTime":110.815,"endTime":119.425,"body":"- So I think that many are seeking an automated"},{"startTime":110.815,"endTime":119.425,"body":"way to improve quality and deliver software quicker."},{"startTime":119.425,"endTime":121.134,"body":"But testing itself, right?"},{"startTime":121.134,"endTime":124.854,"body":"I'm going to remind everyone,"},{"startTime":121.134,"endTime":124.854,"body":"only reveals the level of quality."},{"startTime":124.854,"endTime":128.484,"body":"It doesn't actually create"},{"startTime":124.854,"endTime":128.484,"body":"quality in and of itself, right?"},{"startTime":128.484,"endTime":138.314,"body":"So in addition, most organizations invest heavily"},{"startTime":128.484,"endTime":138.314,"body":"in UI testing tools which may be one of the most"},{"startTime":138.314,"endTime":142.594,"body":"difficult areas to actually see quick ROI."},{"startTime":142.594,"endTime":150.516,"body":"So successful organizations are really looking at"},{"startTime":142.594,"endTime":150.516,"body":"shifting left, implementing test automation tools"},{"startTime":150.516,"endTime":155.876,"body":"earlier in the lifecycle to achieve the return"},{"startTime":150.516,"endTime":155.876,"body":"they desire, which is a lot of times, you know,"},{"startTime":155.876,"endTime":159.046,"body":"quicker delivery of software with higher quality."},{"startTime":159.046,"endTime":163.066,"body":"- Mm-hmm. I think that's always"},{"startTime":159.046,"endTime":163.066,"body":"a fair goal to be reaching for."},{"startTime":163.066,"endTime":169.466,"body":"So when we're talking about this quality element,"},{"startTime":163.066,"endTime":169.466,"body":"is quality at the forefront of the process,"},{"startTime":169.466,"endTime":172.366,"body":"or does it kind of become an"},{"startTime":169.466,"endTime":172.366,"body":"afterthought if we're being honest?"},{"startTime":172.366,"endTime":177.326,"body":"- So I think, you know, I kind of"},{"startTime":172.366,"endTime":177.326,"body":"alluded to it a little bit the last answer,"},{"startTime":177.326,"endTime":180.102,"body":"but that's exactly really the problem"},{"startTime":180.102,"endTime":187.372,"body":"for most organizations that they add testing"},{"startTime":180.102,"endTime":187.372,"body":"to the process, they add testing as a step,"},{"startTime":187.372,"endTime":193.752,"body":"somewhere probably too late in the process,"},{"startTime":187.372,"endTime":193.752,"body":"and they fail to think about quality in a more"},{"startTime":193.752,"endTime":195.332,"body":"holistic way, right?"},{"startTime":195.332,"endTime":198.812,"body":"They need to shift their definition of"},{"startTime":195.332,"endTime":198.812,"body":"quality, they can either expand it,"},{"startTime":198.812,"endTime":205.852,"body":"they need to pursue continuous quality as part"},{"startTime":198.812,"endTime":205.852,"body":"of that definition and part of that initiative,"},{"startTime":205.852,"endTime":211.822,"body":"and once they have a good definition of what"},{"startTime":205.852,"endTime":211.822,"body":"quality is for them, then, they can begin to sort of"},{"startTime":211.822,"endTime":214.872,"body":"set goals for quality."},{"startTime":214.872,"endTime":220.574,"body":"And then they can select the right testing tools to"},{"startTime":214.872,"endTime":220.574,"body":"help them both with the acceleration of the delivery"},{"startTime":220.574,"endTime":226.796,"body":"of software, as well as improving software quality,"},{"startTime":220.574,"endTime":226.796,"body":"you know, injecting more automation and efficiency"},{"startTime":226.796,"endTime":227.837,"body":"into the process."},{"startTime":227.837,"endTime":231.248,"body":"- Yeah, and I think that's a"},{"startTime":227.837,"endTime":231.248,"body":"fair assumption to say that."},{"startTime":231.248,"endTime":237.253,"body":"But how, what's the best way to kind of phrase this,"},{"startTime":231.248,"endTime":237.253,"body":"I would say, when we're looking at putting those"},{"startTime":237.253,"endTime":240.419,"body":"original kinds of goals in"},{"startTime":237.253,"endTime":240.419,"body":"of like, this is our roadmap,"},{"startTime":240.419,"endTime":244.858,"body":"and then this is how it's going to go."},{"startTime":240.419,"endTime":244.858,"body":"When should this process start coming in?"},{"startTime":244.858,"endTime":248.728,"body":"Are we talking like from day one, or is"},{"startTime":244.858,"endTime":248.728,"body":"this something that organizations can build"},{"startTime":248.728,"endTime":249.668,"body":"forward from now?"},{"startTime":249.668,"endTime":250.907,"body":"- Yeah, good question."},{"startTime":250.907,"endTime":251.288,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":251.288,"endTime":254.258,"body":"So I think they, again,"},{"startTime":251.288,"endTime":254.258,"body":"as they're thinking about software,"},{"startTime":254.258,"endTime":260.148,"body":"the software that they're about to deliver or a"},{"startTime":254.258,"endTime":260.148,"body":"new release of software, early on in that process,"},{"startTime":260.148,"endTime":265.928,"body":"and again, today's a good day to start thinking about"},{"startTime":260.148,"endTime":265.928,"body":"that, they need to sort of define what quality means."},{"startTime":265.928,"endTime":267.388,"body":"What is quality?"},{"startTime":267.388,"endTime":269.148,"body":"What are the levels of quality?"},{"startTime":269.148,"endTime":270.652,"body":"Who's responsible for quality?"},{"startTime":270.652,"endTime":273.112,"body":"What are the steps we're"},{"startTime":270.652,"endTime":273.112,"body":"going to take around quality?"},{"startTime":273.112,"endTime":278.132,"body":"A lot of times companies will, at that same time,"},{"startTime":273.112,"endTime":278.132,"body":"sort of now, you know, analyze prior releases,"},{"startTime":278.132,"endTime":284.862,"body":"and it won't take long to figure out that"},{"startTime":278.132,"endTime":284.862,"body":"because they didn't have quality, you know,"},{"startTime":284.862,"endTime":289.122,"body":"injected into the process from the"},{"startTime":284.862,"endTime":289.122,"body":"beginning from the design of the software,"},{"startTime":289.122,"endTime":292.482,"body":"likely it cost them time and money as a result."},{"startTime":292.482,"endTime":294.172,"body":"And so there's a return there, right?"},{"startTime":294.172,"endTime":297.912,"body":"So I think that's, you know,"},{"startTime":294.172,"endTime":297.912,"body":"today's the day to start, but really,"},{"startTime":297.912,"endTime":300.067,"body":"it's at the beginning of the process."},{"startTime":300.067,"endTime":301.183,"body":"- Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":301.183,"endTime":301.717,"body":"I think that's true."},{"startTime":301.717,"endTime":307.591,"body":"Would you say that's kind of the main pulling point"},{"startTime":301.717,"endTime":307.591,"body":"that ROI is not what they're really looking for when"},{"startTime":307.591,"endTime":308.702,"body":"they're looking at this option?"},{"startTime":308.702,"endTime":314.403,"body":"- So I really do think it is, they want to"},{"startTime":308.702,"endTime":314.403,"body":"deliver software quicker, and they're"},{"startTime":314.403,"endTime":322.057,"body":"realizing that if they're going to maintain a level"},{"startTime":314.403,"endTime":322.057,"body":"of quality, especially as it comes to customer"},{"startTime":322.057,"endTime":328.165,"body":"expectations of that software, that they need to,"},{"startTime":322.057,"endTime":328.165,"body":"you know, in order to streamline that process,"},{"startTime":328.165,"endTime":330.589,"body":"they can't find big problems late."},{"startTime":330.589,"endTime":336.219,"body":"They've got to kind of find those early in"},{"startTime":330.589,"endTime":336.219,"body":"the process where it's much, much cheaper,"},{"startTime":336.219,"endTime":339.919,"body":"much more time effective to fix those things."},{"startTime":339.919,"endTime":344.249,"body":"So, again, I think it's speed,"},{"startTime":339.919,"endTime":344.249,"body":"but it's quality at speed, right?"},{"startTime":344.249,"endTime":345.899,"body":"It's always going to be a quality of speed goal."},{"startTime":345.899,"endTime":349.339,"body":"- Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good way to put it."},{"startTime":349.339,"endTime":353.909,"body":"So I also want to kind of delve into"},{"startTime":349.339,"endTime":353.909,"body":"the customer experience of all of this."},{"startTime":353.909,"endTime":357.669,"body":"You know, we've send this process in place,"},{"startTime":353.909,"endTime":357.669,"body":"and then we get to the CX journey of it,"},{"startTime":357.669,"endTime":363.144,"body":"so how does this feed into the customer experience,"},{"startTime":357.669,"endTime":363.144,"body":"and what these tools and processes can really"},{"startTime":363.144,"endTime":364.194,"body":"do for them?"},{"startTime":364.194,"endTime":366.454,"body":"- So I think this is important for a couple reasons."},{"startTime":366.454,"endTime":371.104,"body":"First of all, customer experience is"},{"startTime":366.454,"endTime":371.104,"body":"a pillar of digital transformation."},{"startTime":371.104,"endTime":376.764,"body":"It is a critical outcome, therefore,"},{"startTime":371.104,"endTime":376.764,"body":"for good software delivery."},{"startTime":376.764,"endTime":383.924,"body":"Customer experience must be integrated into that"},{"startTime":376.764,"endTime":383.924,"body":"new definition, that expanded definition of quality."},{"startTime":383.924,"endTime":387.374,"body":"And I think once they kind of"},{"startTime":383.924,"endTime":387.374,"body":"consider, what does this mean?"},{"startTime":387.374,"endTime":389.374,"body":"This customer experience thing?"},{"startTime":389.374,"endTime":392.524,"body":"Like, what does that really mean"},{"startTime":389.374,"endTime":392.524,"body":"when I deliver the software?"},{"startTime":392.524,"endTime":395.24,"body":"And what are those goals associated with that?"},{"startTime":395.24,"endTime":399.824,"body":"Then they have a hope of actually, you know,"},{"startTime":395.24,"endTime":399.824,"body":"coming up with a testing and quality game plan."},{"startTime":399.824,"endTime":406.084,"body":"You know, a lot of applications are, you"},{"startTime":399.824,"endTime":406.084,"body":"know, we think about customer experience"},{"startTime":406.084,"endTime":407.824,"body":"through the UI, right?"},{"startTime":407.824,"endTime":412.004,"body":"The user experience, the user"},{"startTime":407.824,"endTime":412.004,"body":"interface of that application."},{"startTime":412.004,"endTime":417.754,"body":"The reality is, that would be, you know, that"},{"startTime":412.004,"endTime":417.754,"body":"is an important aspect for many applications,"},{"startTime":417.754,"endTime":423.524,"body":"mobile applications, web applications, but"},{"startTime":417.754,"endTime":423.524,"body":"a lot of times that user experience is just a tip"},{"startTime":423.524,"endTime":426.204,"body":"of the iceberg from an"},{"startTime":423.524,"endTime":426.204,"body":"experience perspective, right?"},{"startTime":426.204,"endTime":434.444,"body":"It's really that application interacting with many"},{"startTime":426.204,"endTime":434.444,"body":"other services and applications behind the scene"},{"startTime":434.444,"endTime":437.294,"body":"completely unbeknownst to the user, right?"},{"startTime":437.294,"endTime":439.444,"body":"And those things are all happening quickly."},{"startTime":439.444,"endTime":443.804,"body":"They're all happening accurately, they're"},{"startTime":439.444,"endTime":443.804,"body":"all happening in a secure manner, which is,"},{"startTime":443.804,"endTime":447.004,"body":"you know, protecting their"},{"startTime":443.804,"endTime":447.004,"body":"privacy, of that customer, etc."},{"startTime":447.004,"endTime":451.969,"body":"And so there's a lot more requirements"},{"startTime":447.004,"endTime":451.969,"body":"to customer experience, right?"},{"startTime":451.969,"endTime":457.795,"body":"When you start thinking about the interconnected"},{"startTime":451.969,"endTime":457.795,"body":"nature of today's applications that are"},{"startTime":457.795,"endTime":458.586,"body":"very, very important."},{"startTime":458.586,"endTime":463.639,"body":"So again, when they think about that"},{"startTime":458.586,"endTime":463.639,"body":"definition of quality, and how it includes"},{"startTime":463.639,"endTime":465.519,"body":"customer experience, right?"},{"startTime":465.519,"endTime":471.849,"body":"The ability for that application to interact"},{"startTime":465.519,"endTime":471.849,"body":"quickly in a secure manner drives a lot"},{"startTime":471.849,"endTime":473.909,"body":"of requirements around quality."},{"startTime":473.909,"endTime":475.489,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":475.489,"endTime":479.439,"body":"There's a lot more factors to consider when"},{"startTime":475.489,"endTime":479.439,"body":"we're looking at this area, isn't there?"},{"startTime":479.439,"endTime":485.995,"body":"It's, you want the security to be there, but you"},{"startTime":479.439,"endTime":485.995,"body":"want, as you said, the UI to be as good as it can be."},{"startTime":485.995,"endTime":491.722,"body":"But you also want to make a seamless"},{"startTime":485.995,"endTime":491.722,"body":"experience with all of this tied together for"},{"startTime":491.722,"endTime":493.323,"body":"the customer themselves."},{"startTime":493.323,"endTime":499.645,"body":"Do you think there's ever a struggle between those"},{"startTime":493.323,"endTime":499.645,"body":"kind of expectations of what the customer really"},{"startTime":499.645,"endTime":505.865,"body":"needs, and what the companies are able to kind"},{"startTime":499.645,"endTime":505.865,"body":"of deliver to meet in the middle of this efficiency"},{"startTime":505.865,"endTime":507.885,"body":"but also secure nature?"},{"startTime":507.885,"endTime":508.975,"body":"- Oh, absolutely."},{"startTime":508.975,"endTime":509.845,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":509.845,"endTime":513.399,"body":"I think there's constant tension"},{"startTime":509.845,"endTime":513.399,"body":"between these requirements, right?"},{"startTime":513.399,"endTime":516.999,"body":"And I think this is, again, goes"},{"startTime":513.399,"endTime":516.999,"body":"back to my original comment,"},{"startTime":516.999,"endTime":520.529,"body":"when you start thinking"},{"startTime":516.999,"endTime":520.529,"body":"about levels of quality, right?"},{"startTime":520.529,"endTime":525.396,"body":"And then you start thinking about quality as being,"},{"startTime":520.529,"endTime":525.396,"body":"you know, encompassing customer experience,"},{"startTime":525.396,"endTime":534.699,"body":"security, compliance, it is important to define as"},{"startTime":525.396,"endTime":534.699,"body":"objectively as possible what the minimum bar"},{"startTime":534.699,"endTime":538.179,"body":"requirement is for each"},{"startTime":534.699,"endTime":538.179,"body":"of those areas."},{"startTime":538.179,"endTime":542.992,"body":"And although there'll still be"},{"startTime":538.179,"endTime":542.992,"body":"tension, without those definitions,"},{"startTime":542.992,"endTime":549.921,"body":"it's nearly impossible because the pendulum it"},{"startTime":542.992,"endTime":549.921,"body":"just keeps swinging back and forth from the UI to,"},{"startTime":549.921,"endTime":551.859,"body":"\"Oh, security,\" right?"},{"startTime":551.859,"endTime":555.42,"body":"Somebody is going to claim like, \"Well, you"},{"startTime":551.859,"endTime":555.42,"body":"can't release that software because it's not"},{"startTime":555.42,"endTime":558.643,"body":"complying with our security regulations,\" etc."},{"startTime":558.643,"endTime":561.075,"body":"So if you don't, again,"},{"startTime":558.643,"endTime":561.075,"body":"kind of start with the end in mind,"},{"startTime":561.075,"endTime":566.584,"body":"you don't start defining those things well, and"},{"startTime":561.075,"endTime":566.584,"body":"understand how these things are all competing"},{"startTime":566.584,"endTime":568.968,"body":"with each other early in the design, right?"},{"startTime":568.968,"endTime":572.057,"body":"I think it becomes much, much,"},{"startTime":568.968,"endTime":572.057,"body":"much more difficult to actually deliver."},{"startTime":572.057,"endTime":572.951,"body":"- Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":573.1,"endTime":578.011,"body":"Comes back down to that flow again and just"},{"startTime":573.1,"endTime":578.011,"body":"making sure we're seeing that consistency."},{"startTime":578.011,"endTime":582.049,"body":"And I wanted to move on obviously, the"},{"startTime":578.011,"endTime":582.049,"body":"customer experience is very important and how it"},{"startTime":582.049,"endTime":586.381,"body":"gets there, but then there's the workers"},{"startTime":582.049,"endTime":586.381,"body":"who actually make this possible."},{"startTime":586.381,"endTime":592.411,"body":"So I wanted to kind of discuss that as well because"},{"startTime":586.381,"endTime":592.411,"body":"if an organization is constantly chasing continuous"},{"startTime":592.411,"endTime":597.441,"body":"software quality, what does this do to the"},{"startTime":592.411,"endTime":597.441,"body":"employees in terms of their productivity,"},{"startTime":597.441,"endTime":600.027,"body":"and how does an organization keep that level up?"},{"startTime":600.027,"endTime":601.097,"body":"- Yeah, another good question."},{"startTime":601.097,"endTime":607.277,"body":"I think we can take a cue, right, from,"},{"startTime":601.097,"endTime":607.277,"body":"we can take a kind of learn from, if you will,"},{"startTime":607.277,"endTime":613.607,"body":"the experiences of many organizations with"},{"startTime":607.277,"endTime":613.607,"body":"continuous integration and deployment delivery,"},{"startTime":613.607,"endTime":617.917,"body":"continuous deployment delivery of"},{"startTime":613.607,"endTime":617.917,"body":"applications as well as DevOps, right?"},{"startTime":617.917,"endTime":623.337,"body":"So if you look at their journeys, most"},{"startTime":617.917,"endTime":623.337,"body":"organizations have figured out that they require"},{"startTime":623.337,"endTime":626.917,"body":"very well thought out and"},{"startTime":623.337,"endTime":626.917,"body":"highly integrated toolchains."},{"startTime":626.917,"endTime":631.34,"body":"So they're going to use a lot of different"},{"startTime":626.917,"endTime":631.34,"body":"technologies, they have to be all integrated,"},{"startTime":631.34,"endTime":636.35,"body":"they're continuously looking for ways to"},{"startTime":631.34,"endTime":636.35,"body":"automate manual processes and tasks,"},{"startTime":636.35,"endTime":642.24,"body":"and I think the same exact set of rules sort of holds"},{"startTime":636.35,"endTime":642.24,"body":"true as you start thinking about continuous quality."},{"startTime":642.24,"endTime":648.3,"body":"It's, really should be sort of an expansion of or"},{"startTime":642.24,"endTime":648.3,"body":"an extension of those efforts that they likely have"},{"startTime":648.3,"endTime":658.25,"body":"already started in terms of a shifting left to automate"},{"startTime":648.3,"endTime":658.25,"body":"code analysis, and unit testing, and code coverage,"},{"startTime":658.25,"endTime":662.624,"body":"then looking at other areas like"},{"startTime":658.25,"endTime":662.624,"body":"API testing and service virtualization."},{"startTime":662.624,"endTime":665.551,"body":"And then eventually, right,"},{"startTime":662.624,"endTime":665.551,"body":"you get to sort of UI testing"},{"startTime":665.551,"endTime":669.814,"body":"and performance testing on a broader"},{"startTime":665.551,"endTime":669.814,"body":"scale from a system perspective."},{"startTime":669.814,"endTime":674.384,"body":"And I think one of the things, again, these"},{"startTime":669.814,"endTime":674.384,"body":"organizations are learning as they build"},{"startTime":674.384,"endTime":678.964,"body":"out these toolchains for CI/CD,"},{"startTime":674.384,"endTime":678.964,"body":"they're learning that best of breed"},{"startTime":678.964,"endTime":680.574,"body":"isn't always better."},{"startTime":680.574,"endTime":687.414,"body":"So best of breed, where you are selecting individual"},{"startTime":680.574,"endTime":687.414,"body":"tools for each one of these technology areas,"},{"startTime":687.414,"endTime":691.742,"body":"and these needs can be overwhelming,"},{"startTime":687.414,"endTime":691.742,"body":"and it can create a whole set"},{"startTime":691.742,"endTime":693.026,"body":"of integration challenges."},{"startTime":693.026,"endTime":701.268,"body":"And instead of actually building and delivering the"},{"startTime":693.026,"endTime":701.268,"body":"software that these teams are really paid and"},{"startTime":701.268,"endTime":709.28,"body":"charged to deliver, they're spending all their time"},{"startTime":701.268,"endTime":709.28,"body":"integrating these tools and kind of mucking with"},{"startTime":709.28,"endTime":711.736,"body":"individual little tools, and, you know."},{"startTime":711.736,"endTime":716.354,"body":"So, you know, this is one area, for instance,"},{"startTime":711.736,"endTime":716.354,"body":"Forrester recommends looking at testing suites and"},{"startTime":716.354,"endTime":723.059,"body":"platforms that help organizations across a variety of"},{"startTime":716.354,"endTime":723.059,"body":"areas versus looking at that best of breed approach."},{"startTime":723.059,"endTime":727.759,"body":"So again, just kind of quick"},{"startTime":723.059,"endTime":727.759,"body":"recap, A, learn from CI/CD."},{"startTime":727.759,"endTime":732.799,"body":"Look for continuous ways to"},{"startTime":727.759,"endTime":732.799,"body":"automate tasks and manual processes."},{"startTime":732.799,"endTime":738.597,"body":"Begin integrating these automated testing tools at"},{"startTime":732.799,"endTime":738.597,"body":"the beginning, and maybe look to platforms or"},{"startTime":738.597,"endTime":741.759,"body":"suites of tools that can help you across"},{"startTime":738.597,"endTime":741.759,"body":"a broad spectrum of testing needs."},{"startTime":741.759,"endTime":746.919,"body":"- Yeah, I think that's very key,"},{"startTime":741.759,"endTime":746.919,"body":"and then that feeds into, obviously,"},{"startTime":746.919,"endTime":748.989,"body":"the employee productivity will be bought up."},{"startTime":748.989,"endTime":754.688,"body":"And with that ease, as you said, of automation,"},{"startTime":748.989,"endTime":754.688,"body":"makes life so much easier in the long run and"},{"startTime":754.688,"endTime":757.406,"body":"results in that quality that we see."},{"startTime":757.406,"endTime":763.006,"body":"So just to kind of wrap up the show here,"},{"startTime":757.406,"endTime":763.006,"body":"I want to kind of, in relation to what we've kind"},{"startTime":763.006,"endTime":766.166,"body":"of discussed, do you have any kind of, you"},{"startTime":763.006,"endTime":766.166,"body":"don't have to name any company names,"},{"startTime":766.166,"endTime":772.054,"body":"but any use case examples of why companies"},{"startTime":766.166,"endTime":772.054,"body":"are chasing and striving to succeed in"},{"startTime":772.054,"endTime":773.607,"body":"continuous software quality?"},{"startTime":773.607,"endTime":774.724,"body":"- Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":774.724,"endTime":776.456,"body":"I got a couple that come to mind."},{"startTime":776.456,"endTime":783.037,"body":"So one, I think a really good example is a large"},{"startTime":776.456,"endTime":783.037,"body":"travel and entertainment organization that had a"},{"startTime":783.037,"endTime":794.486,"body":"goal for their customers to be able to use"},{"startTime":783.037,"endTime":794.486,"body":"a single card to access the room in the hotel."},{"startTime":794.486,"endTime":800.396,"body":"They could use that same card for dining or, pool"},{"startTime":794.486,"endTime":800.396,"body":"access or, gambling in some cases where they"},{"startTime":800.396,"endTime":806.556,"body":"had casinos, or other entertainment options,"},{"startTime":800.396,"endTime":806.556,"body":"not just at the property they were staying at."},{"startTime":806.556,"endTime":811.332,"body":"So if they had multiple properties, and"},{"startTime":806.556,"endTime":811.332,"body":"multiple entertainment and restaurant options"},{"startTime":811.332,"endTime":816.552,"body":"in the vicinity, they could use that card"},{"startTime":811.332,"endTime":816.552,"body":"seamlessly, with that they would know, you know,"},{"startTime":816.552,"endTime":822.872,"body":"they'd be identified as who they are, and they"},{"startTime":816.552,"endTime":822.872,"body":"would be able to use that card for access,"},{"startTime":822.872,"endTime":825.052,"body":"for reservations, for payment, etc."},{"startTime":825.052,"endTime":829.742,"body":"And they would get credit for that, there's points"},{"startTime":825.052,"endTime":829.742,"body":"and reward system, and so forth, all built-in."},{"startTime":829.742,"endTime":833.922,"body":"And so you're, start thinking about that,"},{"startTime":829.742,"endTime":833.922,"body":"if those restaurants, and those hotels,"},{"startTime":833.922,"endTime":840.694,"body":"and those systems that were being used were"},{"startTime":833.922,"endTime":840.694,"body":"all architected and developed separately,"},{"startTime":840.694,"endTime":845.304,"body":"then this became a huge integration"},{"startTime":840.694,"endTime":845.304,"body":"problem on the back end."},{"startTime":845.304,"endTime":849.184,"body":"Again, the user interface for the customer"},{"startTime":845.304,"endTime":849.184,"body":"is a card, it's not actually software."},{"startTime":849.184,"endTime":860.594,"body":"It's a card they give, or swipe, or scan, if"},{"startTime":849.184,"endTime":860.594,"body":"you will, and seamlessly, they're given access."},{"startTime":860.594,"endTime":862.474,"body":"They're able to pay, they're"},{"startTime":860.594,"endTime":862.474,"body":"able to do these things."},{"startTime":862.474,"endTime":870.457,"body":"And so this became this massive sort"},{"startTime":862.474,"endTime":870.457,"body":"of API and service virtualization problem."},{"startTime":870.457,"endTime":879.029,"body":"And so great customer experience was solved not"},{"startTime":870.457,"endTime":879.029,"body":"through UI testing tools, but through a set of API,"},{"startTime":879.029,"endTime":885.527,"body":"you know, automated, intelligent, using machine"},{"startTime":879.029,"endTime":885.527,"body":"learning, etc., technology around their API"},{"startTime":885.527,"endTime":887.187,"body":"testing services virtualization."},{"startTime":887.187,"endTime":891.262,"body":"So that was one example that comes to"},{"startTime":887.187,"endTime":891.262,"body":"mind, and that was entertainment industry."},{"startTime":891.262,"endTime":893.617,"body":"And so they were able to do this, right?"},{"startTime":893.617,"endTime":897.547,"body":"They were able to, you know, A,"},{"startTime":893.617,"endTime":897.547,"body":"virtualize this environment, B,"},{"startTime":897.547,"endTime":900.857,"body":"they were able to do this in a fraction of"},{"startTime":897.547,"endTime":900.857,"body":"the time because it was highly automated"},{"startTime":900.857,"endTime":905.457,"body":"than what they could have"},{"startTime":900.857,"endTime":905.457,"body":"done before manually."},{"startTime":905.457,"endTime":909.587,"body":"And so, you know, they actually"},{"startTime":905.457,"endTime":909.587,"body":"viewed this as sort of the untestable."},{"startTime":909.587,"endTime":911.027,"body":"So they were able to test the untestable."},{"startTime":911.027,"endTime":914.147,"body":"They were like, \"I don't even know"},{"startTime":911.027,"endTime":914.147,"body":"how we're going to test this.\""},{"startTime":914.147,"endTime":915.897,"body":"So that was, I think, a good example."},{"startTime":915.897,"endTime":919.527,"body":"And then the second one is in the financial realm."},{"startTime":919.527,"endTime":921.547,"body":"And I can name this company."},{"startTime":921.547,"endTime":929.877,"body":"So ING, obviously a well-known financial institution"},{"startTime":921.547,"endTime":929.877,"body":"ultimately headquartered in the Netherlands."},{"startTime":929.877,"endTime":935.293,"body":"They have a very complex mortgage ecosystem,"},{"startTime":929.877,"endTime":935.293,"body":"and they were able to basically take the testing of"},{"startTime":935.293,"endTime":941.067,"body":"any changes or rollouts within that ecosystem from"},{"startTime":935.293,"endTime":941.067,"body":"over five days because of the complexity of the"},{"startTime":941.067,"endTime":947.029,"body":"ecosystem to less than a single day, again,"},{"startTime":941.067,"endTime":947.029,"body":"using an automated way to virtualize and"},{"startTime":947.029,"endTime":948.309,"body":"simulate that environment."},{"startTime":948.309,"endTime":954.509,"body":"Again, the focus being sort"},{"startTime":948.309,"endTime":954.509,"body":"of API's and services virtualization."},{"startTime":954.509,"endTime":960.067,"body":"So they got to over 60% of that environment could"},{"startTime":954.509,"endTime":960.067,"body":"be virtualized and tested in an automated fashion."},{"startTime":960.067,"endTime":967.452,"body":"And ultimately, they attribute this single area"},{"startTime":960.067,"endTime":967.452,"body":"to accelerating their application delivery."},{"startTime":967.452,"endTime":968.471,"body":"- Amazing stuff."},{"startTime":968.471,"endTime":973.04,"body":"I think those are some perfect examples that"},{"startTime":968.471,"endTime":973.04,"body":"showcase exactly what we've been speaking"},{"startTime":973.04,"endTime":973.685,"body":"about here today."},{"startTime":973.685,"endTime":977.985,"body":"So, Matt, all I can say is thanks for coming"},{"startTime":973.685,"endTime":977.985,"body":"on today's episode, walking us through this,"},{"startTime":977.985,"endTime":981.279,"body":"and giving us further insight"},{"startTime":977.985,"endTime":981.279,"body":"into this continuous software quality."},{"startTime":981.279,"endTime":982.074,"body":"- Absolutely."},{"startTime":982.074,"endTime":982.835,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"startTime":982.835,"endTime":983.86,"body":"- Very welcome."},{"startTime":983.86,"endTime":986.497,"body":"And thank you, everyone, who took"},{"startTime":983.86,"endTime":986.497,"body":"the time to listen to this episode."},{"startTime":986.497,"endTime":989.257,"body":"We do hope you took a lot"},{"startTime":986.497,"endTime":989.257,"body":"away from what we discussed."},{"startTime":989.257,"endTime":993.682,"body":"But if you are looking for more information,"},{"startTime":989.257,"endTime":993.682,"body":"then you can also head over to parasoft.com,"},{"startTime":993.682,"endTime":997.762,"body":"or if you want even further information"},{"startTime":993.682,"endTime":997.762,"body":"and get a member of the team to help you,"},{"startTime":997.762,"endTime":1004.852,"body":"head straight to the demo page, which is"},{"startTime":997.762,"endTime":1004.852,"body":"parasoft.com/request-a-demo, and they'll be"},{"startTime":1004.852,"endTime":1006.542,"body":"more than happy to help you out."},{"startTime":1006.542,"endTime":1007.722,"body":"Thank you again for tuning in."},{"startTime":1007.722,"endTime":1009.8,"body":"We'll be back again with another episode."},{"startTime":1009.8,"endTime":1012.8,"body":"[music]"}]}