{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":35.422,"endTime":35.751,"body":"[Music]"},{"startTime":35.751,"endTime":36.08,"body":"[Music]"},{"startTime":36.08,"endTime":41.68,"body":"Welcome to this episode of NLN "},{"startTime":36.08,"endTime":41.68,"body":"podcast Nursing EDge Unscripted"},{"startTime":41.68,"endTime":47.2,"body":"the Scholarship track. I am your host, Dr. "},{"startTime":41.68,"endTime":47.2,"body":"Steven Palazzo, a member of the editorial"},{"startTime":47.2,"endTime":53.12,"body":"board for Nursing Education Perspectives. Nursing "},{"startTime":47.2,"endTime":53.12,"body":"EDge Unscripted and our track entitled Scholarship"},{"startTime":53.12,"endTime":58.8,"body":"celebrates the published work of select nurse "},{"startTime":53.12,"endTime":58.8,"body":"educators from the NLN's official journal"},{"startTime":58.8,"endTime":63.52,"body":"Nursing Education Perspectives "},{"startTime":58.8,"endTime":63.52,"body":"and the NLN Nursing EDge blog."},{"startTime":63.52,"endTime":69.12,"body":"The conversations embrace the author's unique "},{"startTime":63.52,"endTime":69.12,"body":"perspectives on teaching learning innovations and"},{"startTime":69.12,"endTime":74.8,"body":"the implications for nursing program development "},{"startTime":69.12,"endTime":74.8,"body":"and enhancement. This episode is on the issue"},{"startTime":74.8,"endTime":81.36,"body":"of clinical evaluation of prelicensure BSN "},{"startTime":74.8,"endTime":81.36,"body":"students. We will discuss the author's article,"},{"startTime":81.36,"endTime":88.24,"body":"Clinical Evaluation in Prelicensure Baccalaureate "},{"startTime":81.36,"endTime":88.24,"body":"Nursing Programs A Qualitative Descriptive Study."},{"startTime":88.24,"endTime":93.12,"body":"The discussion will focus on the unique findings "},{"startTime":88.24,"endTime":93.12,"body":"of the author who published a manuscript in the"},{"startTime":93.12,"endTime":100.4,"body":"January February 2022 issue of Nursing Education "},{"startTime":93.12,"endTime":100.4,"body":"Perspectives, volume 43 issue one. Our speaker"},{"startTime":100.4,"endTime":106.16,"body":"today is Dr. Patsy J. Butts, who is an associate "},{"startTime":100.4,"endTime":106.16,"body":"professor at Middle Georgia State University"},{"startTime":106.16,"endTime":111.92,"body":"Department of Nursing. I want to welcome Dr. Butts "},{"startTime":106.16,"endTime":111.92,"body":"to the conversation. And I'm going to ask her to"},{"startTime":111.92,"endTime":118.829,"body":"briefly summarize her study and her findings "},{"startTime":111.92,"endTime":118.829,"body":"and the relevance to the conversation today."},{"startTime":118.829,"endTime":125.36,"body":"Welcome Dr. Butts. Thank you. Thank you for "},{"startTime":118.829,"endTime":125.36,"body":"having me. So my study, the aim of my study"},{"startTime":125.36,"endTime":133.92,"body":"was to provide a current description of what the "},{"startTime":125.36,"endTime":133.92,"body":"clinical or nurse educators, how they were going"},{"startTime":133.92,"endTime":141.84,"body":"about doing clinical evaluation across the "},{"startTime":133.92,"endTime":141.84,"body":"United States. So I set out to try to include"},{"startTime":143.44,"endTime":152.56,"body":"faculty from small universities larger "},{"startTime":143.44,"endTime":152.56,"body":"universities private and state universities"},{"startTime":152.56,"endTime":158.336,"body":"and I was able to get a good sample "},{"startTime":152.56,"endTime":158.336,"body":"from all the different regions"},{"startTime":158.336,"endTime":167.141,"body":"in across the United States and what I found "},{"startTime":158.336,"endTime":167.141,"body":"was that in the past decade since Dr. Benner"},{"startTime":167.141,"endTime":176.24,"body":"released the transformation of nursing education "},{"startTime":167.141,"endTime":176.24,"body":"and the two national surveys that were done on"},{"startTime":176.24,"endTime":182.64,"body":"clinical evaluation and assessment of nursing "},{"startTime":176.24,"endTime":182.64,"body":"students that we really haven't made very much"},{"startTime":182.64,"endTime":189.12,"body":"progress and things stay pretty much the same this "},{"startTime":182.64,"endTime":189.12,"body":"people are still doing clinical evaluation the"},{"startTime":189.12,"endTime":196.88,"body":"same way and I found that most of the clinical "},{"startTime":189.12,"endTime":196.88,"body":"nurse educators that were doing the evaluation"},{"startTime":196.88,"endTime":204.88,"body":"did not really understand evaluation did not have "},{"startTime":196.88,"endTime":204.88,"body":"a background in education and just really kind"},{"startTime":204.88,"endTime":211.6,"body":"of tweaked it basically when they were doing "},{"startTime":204.88,"endTime":211.6,"body":"evaluation so it's not surprising that we are"},{"startTime":211.6,"endTime":218.861,"body":"still struggling with the competency levels of our "},{"startTime":211.6,"endTime":218.861,"body":"students because we just haven't made much ground"},{"startTime":220.314,"endTime":225.36,"body":"Yeah I found the article interesting and just "},{"startTime":220.314,"endTime":225.36,"body":"the fact that it's discussing the same thing"},{"startTime":225.36,"endTime":229.92,"body":"we've been talking about for 20 or 30 years but "},{"startTime":225.36,"endTime":229.92,"body":"this seems to be a theme in nursing right. We'd"},{"startTime":229.92,"endTime":234.8,"body":"revisit things over and over again without making "},{"startTime":229.92,"endTime":234.8,"body":"much progress and moving forward. You know we talk"},{"startTime":234.8,"endTime":240.32,"body":"about this and the nursing programs I've been "},{"startTime":234.8,"endTime":240.32,"body":"involved in over the years the inconsistency"},{"startTime":240.32,"endTime":245.36,"body":"in the qualitative nature of course of the "},{"startTime":240.32,"endTime":245.36,"body":"evaluations in the clinical setting and you know"},{"startTime":245.36,"endTime":249.28,"body":"you can have two different instructors of course "},{"startTime":245.36,"endTime":249.28,"body":"evaluating the same student and come to two very"},{"startTime":249.28,"endTime":254.72,"body":"different conclusions about the student's success "},{"startTime":249.28,"endTime":254.72,"body":"or progress in the program and so I know we talk"},{"startTime":254.72,"endTime":261.04,"body":"about a way of standardizing our clinical tools "},{"startTime":254.72,"endTime":261.04,"body":"across the board and I know many schools like you"},{"startTime":261.04,"endTime":264.88,"body":"know look at other schools and kind of mimic some "},{"startTime":261.04,"endTime":264.88,"body":"of the things they're doing but you're right the"},{"startTime":264.88,"endTime":271.326,"body":"nature of clinical evaluation is very qualitative "},{"startTime":264.88,"endTime":271.326,"body":"in nature of course very subjective in many ways"},{"startTime":271.326,"endTime":278.88,"body":"we're looking at task attainment for the most part "},{"startTime":271.326,"endTime":278.88,"body":"it's difficult sometimes to gauge a student's as"},{"startTime":278.88,"endTime":283.84,"body":"Dr. Benner calls it you know the knowing that "},{"startTime":278.88,"endTime":283.84,"body":"is the kind of the skill and the knowing how"},{"startTime":283.84,"endTime":289.28,"body":"and annoying why is that situated practice-based "},{"startTime":283.84,"endTime":289.28,"body":"kind of learning that we sometimes have difficulty"},{"startTime":289.28,"endTime":296.16,"body":"describing in an evaluation and so that leads "},{"startTime":289.28,"endTime":296.16,"body":"me to the question I wanted to ask you it"},{"startTime":296.16,"endTime":300.32,"body":"seems we've been evaluating like I said clinical "},{"startTime":296.16,"endTime":300.32,"body":"competencies of students in the clinical setting"},{"startTime":300.32,"endTime":306.08,"body":"the same way for decades you know the skills list "},{"startTime":300.32,"endTime":306.08,"body":"with the task accomplishment the students do their"},{"startTime":306.08,"endTime":312.96,"body":"large you know cumbersome care plans usually "},{"startTime":306.08,"endTime":312.96,"body":"still written or you know now on the computer"},{"startTime":312.96,"endTime":318.24,"body":"despite research that Dr. Benner has "},{"startTime":312.96,"endTime":318.24,"body":"conducted that describes clinical reasoning"},{"startTime":318.24,"endTime":323.68,"body":"and situated thinking in action is a more "},{"startTime":318.24,"endTime":323.68,"body":"effective way to evaluate student outcomes"},{"startTime":323.68,"endTime":328.48,"body":"I know Dr. Benner's developing this work has been "},{"startTime":323.68,"endTime":328.48,"body":"developing this work to use in a more contextual"},{"startTime":328.48,"endTime":334.96,"body":"way what are your thoughts on this as it relates "},{"startTime":328.48,"endTime":334.96,"body":"to your findings in this study well when I was"},{"startTime":334.96,"endTime":342.8,"body":"talking to nurse educators from across the country "},{"startTime":334.96,"endTime":342.8,"body":"it was clear that they did not have a good grasp"},{"startTime":342.8,"endTime":352.0,"body":"on how to do evaluation or basically they use "},{"startTime":342.8,"endTime":352.0,"body":"their past experiences in nursing school to"},{"startTime":352.0,"endTime":357.76,"body":"determine what they should ask the student to do "},{"startTime":352.0,"endTime":357.76,"body":"and some of us have been out of nursing school for"},{"startTime":357.76,"endTime":365.84,"body":"quite a long time and they need some values "},{"startTime":357.76,"endTime":365.84,"body":"in medicine so it's I found that astonishing"},{"startTime":365.84,"endTime":374.56,"body":"there was a lot of autonomy amongst even the "},{"startTime":365.84,"endTime":374.56,"body":"educators in their programs they were able to do"},{"startTime":374.56,"endTime":380.88,"body":"whatever they would like to do they based it on I "},{"startTime":374.56,"endTime":380.88,"body":"had some clinical educators tell me that they base"},{"startTime":380.88,"endTime":387.68,"body":"students evaluation on a ranking system they would "},{"startTime":380.88,"endTime":387.68,"body":"rank their students from strongest to weakest"},{"startTime":389.28,"endTime":396.537,"body":"they did not really have a clear picture of "},{"startTime":389.28,"endTime":396.537,"body":"what competency was so I find it difficult"},{"startTime":396.537,"endTime":404.32,"body":"or not really difficult to understand I understand "},{"startTime":396.537,"endTime":404.32,"body":"why we have not made the grounds toward what Dr."},{"startTime":404.32,"endTime":411.04,"body":"Benner was speaking of because you know it's "},{"startTime":404.32,"endTime":411.04,"body":"quite it's complicated to try to teach that"},{"startTime":411.04,"endTime":418.0,"body":"situated thinking in action because we don't "},{"startTime":411.04,"endTime":418.0,"body":"really have any control over what the patient's"},{"startTime":418.0,"endTime":424.32,"body":"going to be that day when we take our students "},{"startTime":418.0,"endTime":424.32,"body":"into the clinical setting so it's difficult to"},{"startTime":424.32,"endTime":433.84,"body":"actually make sure that we're meeting those types "},{"startTime":424.32,"endTime":433.84,"body":"of objectives for a skilled knowledgeable educator"},{"startTime":433.84,"endTime":439.04,"body":"so when you have someone who is inexperienced "},{"startTime":433.84,"endTime":439.04,"body":"it's very difficult for them to even"},{"startTime":439.04,"endTime":444.569,"body":"fathom how to go about doing that."},{"startTime":444.569,"endTime":449.44,"body":"We're sometimes talking about it of course "},{"startTime":444.569,"endTime":449.44,"body":"a nursing student who's inexperienced with"},{"startTime":449.44,"endTime":455.92,"body":"an inexperienced educator and maybe not an "},{"startTime":449.44,"endTime":455.92,"body":"inexperienced nurse right but an inexperienced"},{"startTime":455.92,"endTime":460.88,"body":"educator so not understanding even how to "},{"startTime":455.92,"endTime":460.88,"body":"you know look at the student through the"},{"startTime":460.88,"endTime":467.44,"body":"lens of a student where they should be at the "},{"startTime":460.88,"endTime":467.44,"body":"place they are in the program yeah you know"},{"startTime":467.44,"endTime":473.2,"body":"with the new centrals are here obviously and I "},{"startTime":467.44,"endTime":473.2,"body":"know all of us across the country will be working"},{"startTime":473.2,"endTime":479.52,"body":"with implementing those new essentials over the "},{"startTime":473.2,"endTime":479.52,"body":"next several years and looking at competency-based"},{"startTime":479.52,"endTime":486.926,"body":"evaluation which is what the essentials are saying "},{"startTime":479.52,"endTime":486.926,"body":"and this is a good opportunity I think for us to"},{"startTime":486.926,"endTime":492.48,"body":"reimagine how we can evaluate students in the "},{"startTime":486.926,"endTime":492.48,"body":"clinical setting and the clinical setting now"},{"startTime":492.48,"endTime":500.64,"body":"includes the virtual setting right the not only "},{"startTime":492.48,"endTime":500.64,"body":"the simulations in the labs but the virtual"},{"startTime":500.64,"endTime":506.16,"body":"simulations that are now happening mostly because "},{"startTime":500.64,"endTime":506.16,"body":"of covid you know they were they've been there"},{"startTime":506.16,"endTime":510.96,"body":"but we didn't really start working on them looking "},{"startTime":506.16,"endTime":510.96,"body":"at them until covet and I know there was a recent"},{"startTime":510.96,"endTime":515.2,"body":"article that Dr. Benner sent me and I forgive me I "},{"startTime":510.96,"endTime":515.2,"body":"don't remember the name at the moment that talked"},{"startTime":515.2,"endTime":523.52,"body":"about the value and looking at the success of "},{"startTime":515.2,"endTime":523.52,"body":"those virtual simulations and how you can get to"},{"startTime":523.52,"endTime":529.12,"body":"still get to that situated thinking and practice "},{"startTime":523.52,"endTime":529.12,"body":"through those virtual simulations not in the same"},{"startTime":529.12,"endTime":534.56,"body":"way obviously as having somebody there with you "},{"startTime":529.12,"endTime":534.56,"body":"at the side of the vet but so what are your as we"},{"startTime":534.56,"endTime":539.84,"body":"can do the conversation around the way we evaluate "},{"startTime":534.56,"endTime":539.84,"body":"students what are your thoughts about evaluating"},{"startTime":539.84,"endTime":544.977,"body":"them as we're talking about the new essentials "},{"startTime":539.84,"endTime":544.977,"body":"and this competency based type of evaluation"},{"startTime":544.977,"endTime":551.44,"body":"which is not looking just at task and checking "},{"startTime":544.977,"endTime":551.44,"body":"off on a list right when I was talking to the"},{"startTime":551.44,"endTime":557.28,"body":"clinical educators and we were talking about "},{"startTime":551.44,"endTime":557.28,"body":"how what was their process of actually doing"},{"startTime":557.28,"endTime":570.64,"body":"clinical evaluation I actually chose to seek out a "},{"startTime":557.28,"endTime":570.64,"body":"recruitment of educators that were CCNA accredited"},{"startTime":570.64,"endTime":577.28,"body":"and that you know actually in that accreditation "},{"startTime":570.64,"endTime":577.28,"body":"they require the essentials to be part of the"},{"startTime":577.28,"endTime":584.16,"body":"overall curriculum embedded in threaded throughout "},{"startTime":577.28,"endTime":584.16,"body":"the curriculum interesting enough I believe"},{"startTime":584.16,"endTime":590.72,"body":"only one or two educators ever brought up the "},{"startTime":584.16,"endTime":590.72,"body":"essentials so I think we have a lot of work to do"},{"startTime":590.72,"endTime":598.64,"body":"they actually did not really base their evaluation "},{"startTime":590.72,"endTime":598.64,"body":"on the essentials of a baccalaureate education"},{"startTime":598.64,"endTime":607.52,"body":"that the nurse needs so we have some work I "},{"startTime":598.64,"endTime":607.52,"body":"think we really need to work on educating our"},{"startTime":607.52,"endTime":615.12,"body":"faculty on how to do evaluation first but I do "},{"startTime":607.52,"endTime":615.12,"body":"agree with the simulations I think that building"},{"startTime":615.12,"endTime":624.32,"body":"us a more simulation into our programs is going "},{"startTime":615.12,"endTime":624.32,"body":"to help us educate our evaluators but also to"},{"startTime":624.32,"endTime":629.92,"body":"ensure our students are meeting those objectives "},{"startTime":624.32,"endTime":629.92,"body":"and developing that situated thinking in action"},{"startTime":631.12,"endTime":634.64,"body":"because it gives us a little bit "},{"startTime":631.12,"endTime":634.64,"body":"more control over the type of"},{"startTime":635.92,"endTime":642.56,"body":"patients and situations that we want our "},{"startTime":635.92,"endTime":642.56,"body":"students to actually have practice with"},{"startTime":642.56,"endTime":647.394,"body":"but we're you know covet has also caused "},{"startTime":642.56,"endTime":647.394,"body":"some issues with us being in the hospital"},{"startTime":647.394,"endTime":653.2,"body":"here in the south we have been fortunate enough "},{"startTime":647.394,"endTime":653.2,"body":"to actually be back into the hospital almost from"},{"startTime":653.2,"endTime":658.48,"body":"the beginning but we did have some areas that "},{"startTime":653.2,"endTime":658.48,"body":"students can go to but across the nation there"},{"startTime":658.48,"endTime":665.84,"body":"are many nursing students who have not even been "},{"startTime":658.48,"endTime":665.84,"body":"able to get into clinical really good clinical"},{"startTime":665.84,"endTime":674.72,"body":"situations and experiences to help develop that "},{"startTime":665.84,"endTime":674.72,"body":"level of competency and I saw an article recently"},{"startTime":674.72,"endTime":682.16,"body":"it was talking about crisis in competency and they "},{"startTime":674.72,"endTime":682.16,"body":"spoke to our competency levels of new graduate"},{"startTime":682.16,"endTime":688.64,"body":"registered nurses had fallen down to about nine "},{"startTime":682.16,"endTime":688.64,"body":"percent of those that are entering into practice"},{"startTime":688.64,"endTime":694.0,"body":"actually being at the level of property so we do "},{"startTime":688.64,"endTime":694.0,"body":"have some serious work that we need to work on"},{"startTime":696.24,"endTime":701.84,"body":"you well you touched on that we've been discussing "},{"startTime":696.24,"endTime":701.84,"body":"the lack of clinical nurse educator training"},{"startTime":701.84,"endTime":706.72,"body":"would you please provide us with your thoughts "},{"startTime":701.84,"endTime":706.72,"body":"on how this inconsistency in standardizing our"},{"startTime":706.72,"endTime":713.36,"body":"training impacts student success well I think "},{"startTime":706.72,"endTime":713.36,"body":"it's I think it really is one of the major keys to"},{"startTime":713.36,"endTime":723.28,"body":"student success for instance where I'm where I "},{"startTime":713.36,"endTime":723.28,"body":"am we have been working on developing ourselves"},{"startTime":723.28,"endTime":729.461,"body":"because we really feel like that's the "},{"startTime":723.28,"endTime":729.461,"body":"key to helping the student success and"},{"startTime":729.461,"endTime":735.92,"body":"we are working on developing our part-time "},{"startTime":729.461,"endTime":735.92,"body":"our adjunct who do a lot of our clinicals"},{"startTime":735.92,"endTime":742.56,"body":"having an orientation working on evaluation "},{"startTime":735.92,"endTime":742.56,"body":"making sure they understand the tools and"},{"startTime":742.56,"endTime":748.88,"body":"you know the next step is we're going to have to "},{"startTime":742.56,"endTime":748.88,"body":"work on integrator reliability with our tools that"},{"startTime":748.88,"endTime":756.48,"body":"we use that like you said before the evaluators "},{"startTime":748.88,"endTime":756.48,"body":"can have inconsistencies evaluating the same"},{"startTime":756.48,"endTime":760.48,"body":"student and I really think that goes back "},{"startTime":756.48,"endTime":760.48,"body":"to the fact that they don't understand real"},{"startTime":760.48,"endTime":768.56,"body":"evaluation there were when I was interviewing the "},{"startTime":760.48,"endTime":768.56,"body":"educators the backgrounds you know were all work"},{"startTime":768.56,"endTime":774.8,"body":"from various things we had master's level nurse "},{"startTime":768.56,"endTime":774.8,"body":"practitioners there were a few that had doctorates"},{"startTime":774.8,"endTime":783.313,"body":"in nursing education most were doctorates in "},{"startTime":774.8,"endTime":783.313,"body":"nursing practice and we had some PhD prepared"},{"startTime":783.313,"endTime":791.92,"body":"educators as well and most of them did not have "},{"startTime":783.313,"endTime":791.92,"body":"any additional coursework in nursing education so"},{"startTime":791.92,"endTime":799.84,"body":"they weren't familiar with curriculum and really "},{"startTime":791.92,"endTime":799.84,"body":"objectives and how to meet those objectives and"},{"startTime":799.84,"endTime":810.48,"body":"what the clinical tools actually were measuring "},{"startTime":799.84,"endTime":810.48,"body":"and actually they told me that the tools were"},{"startTime":810.48,"endTime":816.48,"body":"afterthoughts they did not actually relate "},{"startTime":810.48,"endTime":816.48,"body":"them to the objectives of the curriculum"},{"startTime":816.48,"endTime":823.04,"body":"for their program clinical objectives so it's no "},{"startTime":816.48,"endTime":823.04,"body":"wonder that the students are not getting a clear"},{"startTime":823.04,"endTime":829.84,"body":"we're not getting a clear picture of competency "},{"startTime":823.04,"endTime":829.84,"body":"when we're when we are evaluating students"},{"startTime":829.84,"endTime":840.16,"body":"I think that the nursing programs are going to "},{"startTime":829.84,"endTime":840.16,"body":"have to develop their own educational training for"},{"startTime":840.16,"endTime":848.32,"body":"much of the educators because they're not getting "},{"startTime":840.16,"endTime":848.32,"body":"that coursework it's not part of the program their"},{"startTime":848.32,"endTime":853.44,"body":"curriculum when they're getting their doctorates "},{"startTime":848.32,"endTime":853.44,"body":"to actually have teaching and learning and"},{"startTime":853.44,"endTime":860.32,"body":"evaluation how to do evaluation in their programs "},{"startTime":853.44,"endTime":860.32,"body":"so we're going to have to take it upon ourselves"},{"startTime":860.32,"endTime":867.311,"body":"recognize that it is an issue and that it is "},{"startTime":860.32,"endTime":867.311,"body":"impacting our student success do it ourselves"},{"startTime":868.8,"endTime":874.8,"body":"Right, right. And cloven certainly didn't help "},{"startTime":868.8,"endTime":874.8,"body":"it helped expose a lot of this and certainly you"},{"startTime":874.8,"endTime":879.6,"body":"know his unique situation that we've been through "},{"startTime":874.8,"endTime":879.6,"body":"the last two years that you know it's taken away"},{"startTime":879.6,"endTime":884.24,"body":"some of the lens we were looking through as "},{"startTime":879.6,"endTime":884.24,"body":"far as how we are doing clinical evaluation"},{"startTime":884.24,"endTime":890.32,"body":"because of the move towards simulation virtual "},{"startTime":884.24,"endTime":890.32,"body":"stimulation and just you know and I think we"},{"startTime":890.32,"endTime":894.48,"body":"should be clear here that this is not a personal "},{"startTime":890.32,"endTime":894.48,"body":"criticism of any of our clinical partners who"},{"startTime":894.48,"endTime":900.0,"body":"are we are so grateful for the work they do with "},{"startTime":894.48,"endTime":900.0,"body":"our students it's more about the system in which"},{"startTime":900.0,"endTime":910.48,"body":"we design these partnerships and you know the "},{"startTime":900.0,"endTime":910.48,"body":"lack of you know educating new instructors that"},{"startTime":910.48,"endTime":916.4,"body":"are coming out to join us and there's a variety "},{"startTime":910.48,"endTime":916.4,"body":"of reasons why that happens you know time money"},{"startTime":916.4,"endTime":923.04,"body":"it's regional amount of people available et cetera "},{"startTime":916.4,"endTime":923.04,"body":"things like that but it's a huge problem with"},{"startTime":923.04,"endTime":931.12,"body":"training are yeah ourselves it's very difficult "},{"startTime":923.04,"endTime":931.12,"body":"we can't we can't put our hand or our finger"},{"startTime":931.12,"endTime":940.16,"body":"on exactly what competency means ourselves it's "},{"startTime":931.12,"endTime":940.16,"body":"difficult so right you know it's partly it's a big"},{"startTime":940.16,"endTime":945.44,"body":"problem and it's complicated it's a very that's "},{"startTime":940.16,"endTime":945.44,"body":"the reason why it's been 10 years and we still"},{"startTime":945.44,"endTime":954.16,"body":"have made exactly extremely complicated. Yes. Yes "},{"startTime":945.44,"endTime":954.16,"body":"and you know my hope is with the new essentials"},{"startTime":954.16,"endTime":959.36,"body":"it's going to be a new direction for us a "},{"startTime":954.16,"endTime":959.36,"body":"nursing education and an opportunity for us to"},{"startTime":959.36,"endTime":963.2,"body":"be innovative and look at things a little "},{"startTime":959.36,"endTime":963.2,"body":"bit differently and come up with some really"},{"startTime":963.2,"endTime":969.04,"body":"outside the box type of opportunities here for "},{"startTime":963.2,"endTime":969.04,"body":"us to educate our students and evaluate our"},{"startTime":969.04,"endTime":972.4,"body":"students in a way that's different than we've been "},{"startTime":969.04,"endTime":972.4,"body":"doing in the past so it'll be interesting to see"},{"startTime":972.4,"endTime":977.36,"body":"what programs are coming up with over the "},{"startTime":972.4,"endTime":977.36,"body":"next several years to meet the new essentials"},{"startTime":977.36,"endTime":983.04,"body":"and yeah I'm looking forward to it and the next "},{"startTime":977.36,"endTime":983.04,"body":"gen comes out it'll be interesting to see maybe"},{"startTime":983.04,"endTime":990.8,"body":"Yes. Yes. Something that helped push just a "},{"startTime":983.04,"endTime":990.8,"body":"little bit forward is is those next gen"},{"startTime":990.8,"endTime":996.8,"body":"exams we already have our cohorts in "},{"startTime":990.8,"endTime":996.8,"body":"that are going to be taking that exam and"},{"startTime":996.8,"endTime":1002.0,"body":"we're already think ahead and the "},{"startTime":996.8,"endTime":1002.0,"body":"best way to tie it all together is"},{"startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1007.106,"body":"clinical so maybe we'll get a little bit more "},{"startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1007.106,"body":"intentional and that's going to help I think."},{"startTime":1008.48,"endTime":1013.52,"body":"That's a great point. Well I want to thank you "},{"startTime":1008.48,"endTime":1013.52,"body":"so much for joining us for this conversation"},{"startTime":1013.52,"endTime":1018.0,"body":"I really appreciate your time and expertise in "},{"startTime":1013.52,"endTime":1018.0,"body":"sharing your work and broadening our understanding"},{"startTime":1018.0,"endTime":1024.4,"body":"of the work you did and just you know stimulating "},{"startTime":1018.0,"endTime":1024.4,"body":"a conversation around this topic to our listeners"},{"startTime":1024.4,"endTime":1028.4,"body":"if you have not had the opportunity to read this "},{"startTime":1024.4,"endTime":1028.4,"body":"work you can find the manuscript published in"},{"startTime":1028.4,"endTime":1033.44,"body":"nursing education perspectives clinical evaluation "},{"startTime":1028.4,"endTime":1033.44,"body":"and pre-licensure baccalaureate nursing programs"},{"startTime":1033.44,"endTime":1039.44,"body":"a qualitative descriptive study published in the "},{"startTime":1033.44,"endTime":1039.44,"body":"manuscript in the January February of this year"},{"startTime":1039.44,"endTime":1046.48,"body":"volume 43 issue number one. And thank you for "},{"startTime":1039.44,"endTime":1046.48,"body":"joining us and thank you very much to Dr. Butts."},{"startTime":1064.48,"endTime":1064.98,"body":"[Music]"}]}