{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":36.96,"endTime":44.64,"body":"Welcome back. Last episode, we talked with Sal "},{"startTime":36.96,"endTime":44.64,"body":"and Elaine about how all nurses are leaders and"},{"startTime":44.64,"endTime":49.92,"body":"specifically about socializing nursing "},{"startTime":44.64,"endTime":49.92,"body":"students to their value and impact. So,"},{"startTime":49.92,"endTime":58.24,"body":"thank you for joining us again to continue this "},{"startTime":49.92,"endTime":58.24,"body":"conversation with Sal and Elaine. I was thinking"},{"startTime":58.24,"endTime":65.28,"body":"as I as Sal was talking before Michelle and "},{"startTime":58.24,"endTime":65.28,"body":"Rachel about all the work you're doing, you know,"},{"startTime":65.28,"endTime":71.76,"body":"with learning science and constructivism and all "},{"startTime":65.28,"endTime":71.76,"body":"and how that relates and this whole notion of"},{"startTime":71.76,"endTime":78.8,"body":"thinking in context and activating prior knowledge "},{"startTime":71.76,"endTime":78.8,"body":"is what S really just talked about, you know,"},{"startTime":78.8,"endTime":84.24,"body":"and we talked about well tell me about your role, "},{"startTime":78.8,"endTime":84.24,"body":"you know, what does that look like? or if you're"},{"startTime":84.24,"endTime":91.04,"body":"talking about delegation and how that fits with "},{"startTime":84.24,"endTime":91.04,"body":"leadership, in what ways were you spoken to as"},{"startTime":91.04,"endTime":97.36,"body":"a manager when you were in your staff nurse role "},{"startTime":91.04,"endTime":97.36,"body":"that was helpful? In what ways were not helpful?"},{"startTime":97.36,"endTime":103.28,"body":"And students can speak to that and they know "},{"startTime":97.36,"endTime":103.28,"body":"that. And one of the great things about co there"},{"startTime":103.28,"endTime":109.92,"body":"were some good things are the Zoom breakout rooms "},{"startTime":103.28,"endTime":109.92,"body":"which really have fostered a great way for them."},{"startTime":109.92,"endTime":115.12,"body":"They all can answer that question and then you "},{"startTime":109.92,"endTime":115.12,"body":"can reach well let's think about what were the"},{"startTime":115.12,"endTime":120.72,"body":"components of the more effective dialogue as "},{"startTime":115.12,"endTime":120.72,"body":"you delegated and needed certain tasks done."},{"startTime":120.72,"endTime":127.84,"body":"The same way with this whole notion of thinking "},{"startTime":120.72,"endTime":127.84,"body":"of problems first because that's who we are. We"},{"startTime":127.84,"endTime":132.72,"body":"learned to think in terms of problems. That's "},{"startTime":127.84,"endTime":132.72,"body":"what the nursing process is. We identified that"},{"startTime":132.72,"endTime":138.16,"body":"the bloody nursing diagnosis, right? So when "},{"startTime":132.72,"endTime":138.16,"body":"you start with the problem, you only think in"},{"startTime":138.16,"endTime":144.08,"body":"sort of a negative context of solving problems "},{"startTime":138.16,"endTime":144.08,"body":"which is the right which is a good thing to do."},{"startTime":144.08,"endTime":151.6,"body":"But if you start with context and what are the "},{"startTime":144.08,"endTime":151.6,"body":"issues involved here and are is it all problems"},{"startTime":151.6,"endTime":157.92,"body":"or is there a way to reframe it then you reach "},{"startTime":151.6,"endTime":157.92,"body":"a different point and thinking about how leaders"},{"startTime":157.92,"endTime":164.0,"body":"can lead in context. Yeah. And I think the other "},{"startTime":157.92,"endTime":164.0,"body":"one that always amazes me is when somebody says,"},{"startTime":164.0,"endTime":168.4,"body":"\"Well, Sally, I don't like conflict.\" Oh, "},{"startTime":164.0,"endTime":168.4,"body":"yeah. Like I get up in the morning and I say,"},{"startTime":168.4,"endTime":176.16,"body":"\"I can't wait to have 24 conflicts.\" You know, I "},{"startTime":168.4,"endTime":176.16,"body":"mean, we separate these things from our"},{"startTime":176.16,"endTime":184.96,"body":"humanity. Every situation, every organization has "},{"startTime":176.16,"endTime":184.96,"body":"diverse, you know, situations which create what we"},{"startTime":184.96,"endTime":191.6,"body":"refer to as conflict. You know, the conflict "},{"startTime":184.96,"endTime":191.6,"body":"isn't the issue. It's the process of what do"},{"startTime":191.6,"endTime":197.04,"body":"we how do we deal with this? How do we deal with "},{"startTime":191.6,"endTime":197.04,"body":"diverse opinions? How do we make people feel like"},{"startTime":197.04,"endTime":202.72,"body":"what they have to offer makes a difference? How "},{"startTime":197.04,"endTime":202.72,"body":"do we depersonalize and the key and Elaine and I"},{"startTime":202.72,"endTime":209.04,"body":"talk about this all the time? It's naive. We put "},{"startTime":202.72,"endTime":209.04,"body":"a group of people together who are total strangers"},{"startTime":209.04,"endTime":216.32,"body":"and we say, \"Okay, now go out and work together. "},{"startTime":209.04,"endTime":216.32,"body":"Oh my god, they're having a conflict.\" Guess what?"},{"startTime":216.32,"endTime":223.76,"body":"If you don't have rules of engagement, you have "},{"startTime":216.32,"endTime":223.76,"body":"conflict that is unresolved. Conflict just means"},{"startTime":223.76,"endTime":232.08,"body":"it's always going to be there because we're "},{"startTime":223.76,"endTime":232.08,"body":"different. How do we manage those differences?"},{"startTime":232.08,"endTime":239.44,"body":"I agree. I could talk about this forever in the "},{"startTime":232.08,"endTime":239.44,"body":"sense of sometimes as a leader we need to teach"},{"startTime":239.44,"endTime":245.84,"body":"our leaders that they change. They can't change "},{"startTime":239.44,"endTime":245.84,"body":"everyone around them. That was the hardest lesson"},{"startTime":245.84,"endTime":251.28,"body":"for me to learn I must say in my leadership role. "},{"startTime":245.84,"endTime":251.28,"body":"I think it comes from our nursing background and"},{"startTime":251.28,"endTime":256.88,"body":"a psych nurse. You know, I was going to use the "},{"startTime":251.28,"endTime":256.88,"body":"right the right communication, the right dialogue"},{"startTime":256.88,"endTime":263.52,"body":"and get this person to really have insight and to "},{"startTime":256.88,"endTime":263.52,"body":"see how they might be splitting their faculty team"},{"startTime":263.52,"endTime":271.84,"body":"for example. And with all my energy poured into "},{"startTime":263.52,"endTime":271.84,"body":"it, the thought I put into it and I can't get them"},{"startTime":271.84,"endTime":280.32,"body":"to change. So then I began to realize that I need "},{"startTime":271.84,"endTime":280.32,"body":"to change and that concept was revolutionary to me"},{"startTime":280.32,"endTime":287.36,"body":"to say I understand that this is your perspective. "},{"startTime":280.32,"endTime":287.36,"body":"This is the way we need to move forward as we're"},{"startTime":287.36,"endTime":291.6,"body":"moving on. If that's not a choice you can make "},{"startTime":287.36,"endTime":291.6,"body":"then we can deal with the consequences. But right"},{"startTime":291.6,"endTime":299.76,"body":"now that's the direction that we need to go. So "},{"startTime":291.6,"endTime":299.76,"body":"all those skills are not known. They need to be"},{"startTime":299.76,"endTime":306.32,"body":"part of how I become a leader. It's communication. "},{"startTime":299.76,"endTime":306.32,"body":"It's how one functions as a team and how one"},{"startTime":306.32,"endTime":313.76,"body":"values yourself within the context of that team. I "},{"startTime":306.32,"endTime":313.76,"body":"think that's really good. And an example of that I"},{"startTime":313.76,"endTime":320.48,"body":"hear a lot from nurses who've been around a while. "},{"startTime":313.76,"endTime":320.48,"body":"Oh, the millennials are difficult to teach. Oh,"},{"startTime":320.48,"endTime":327.2,"body":"they are so difficult. Well, guess what? You've "},{"startTime":320.48,"endTime":327.2,"body":"set yourself up. Okay. What do the millennials"},{"startTime":327.2,"endTime":333.44,"body":"bring that's positive? And what do you have from "},{"startTime":327.2,"endTime":333.44,"body":"your experience that they need to learn? That's"},{"startTime":333.44,"endTime":338.8,"body":"a dialogue. You know, I'm sure when Moses came "},{"startTime":333.44,"endTime":338.8,"body":"down from the mountain, he said to Mrs. Moses,"},{"startTime":338.8,"endTime":345.28,"body":"\"Boy, I'm really worried about our teenagers.\" "},{"startTime":338.8,"endTime":345.28,"body":"That's a fact of life. You know that people get"},{"startTime":345.28,"endTime":351.52,"body":"hung up in stereotypes. One of the wonderful "},{"startTime":345.28,"endTime":351.52,"body":"things I hear from the millennials is they want"},{"startTime":351.52,"endTime":356.8,"body":"to have a purpose. They don't want to just have "},{"startTime":351.52,"endTime":356.8,"body":"activities. They want to have different outcomes."},{"startTime":356.8,"endTime":363.68,"body":"That's a meaningful block. And Elaine's point, "},{"startTime":356.8,"endTime":363.68,"body":"I think, is so well taken. I've given up trying"},{"startTime":363.68,"endTime":368.88,"body":"to use the magic wand to change other people. "},{"startTime":363.68,"endTime":368.88,"body":"But I'll tell you that a lot of change within"},{"startTime":368.88,"endTime":376.24,"body":"me has been very effective in creating much more "},{"startTime":368.88,"endTime":376.24,"body":"positive outcomes. And you know, as we talk about"},{"startTime":376.24,"endTime":381.92,"body":"these skills that can be built and developed and "},{"startTime":376.24,"endTime":381.92,"body":"the change and the inner work we need to do as we"},{"startTime":381.92,"endTime":387.2,"body":"lean into leadership, I think it even further "},{"startTime":381.92,"endTime":387.2,"body":"reinforces the importance of scaffolding this"},{"startTime":387.2,"endTime":392.8,"body":"across a curriculum. Not that there doesn't need "},{"startTime":387.2,"endTime":392.8,"body":"to be a leadership course. It's an and there's"},{"startTime":392.8,"endTime":397.92,"body":"a leadership course and how do we sprinkle "},{"startTime":392.8,"endTime":397.92,"body":"and scaffold these skills and opportunities"},{"startTime":397.92,"endTime":402.0,"body":"for students to practice these skills, get "},{"startTime":397.92,"endTime":402.0,"body":"feedback on these skills, develop these skills,"},{"startTime":402.0,"endTime":409.44,"body":"get coached on them across the program and I see "},{"startTime":402.0,"endTime":409.44,"body":"one of the pitfalls when we are siloing like you"},{"startTime":409.44,"endTime":415.28,"body":"say Elaine is that in those leadership courses "},{"startTime":409.44,"endTime":415.28,"body":"particularly in the pre-licensure courses what are"},{"startTime":415.28,"endTime":418.72,"body":"the activities that they're doing the shadowing "},{"startTime":415.28,"endTime":418.72,"body":"risk management they're working with the charge"},{"startTime":418.72,"endTime":422.32,"body":"nurse they're going to the bed coordinator "},{"startTime":418.72,"endTime":422.32,"body":"they're doing case management and those are"},{"startTime":422.32,"endTime":428.08,"body":"great for lateral integration of care and seeing "},{"startTime":422.32,"endTime":428.08,"body":"system processes but that sends I think the wrong"},{"startTime":428.08,"endTime":433.76,"body":"connotation that leadership lives in those roles "},{"startTime":428.08,"endTime":433.76,"body":"and I think it undermines our intent for our"},{"startTime":433.76,"endTime":438.72,"body":"nursing students who will soon become nurses to "},{"startTime":433.76,"endTime":438.72,"body":"see that they can lead from where they are. It is"},{"startTime":438.72,"endTime":442.96,"body":"independent of the role that they're in and it's "},{"startTime":438.72,"endTime":442.96,"body":"what they bring and their strengths they bring to"},{"startTime":442.96,"endTime":451.28,"body":"the table in the situation. So well said. It's "},{"startTime":442.96,"endTime":451.28,"body":"again that positional description of leadership"},{"startTime":451.28,"endTime":458.88,"body":"rather than how they lead and activating the prior "},{"startTime":451.28,"endTime":458.88,"body":"knowledge of students who come into nursing. They"},{"startTime":458.88,"endTime":464.48,"body":"don't come in in a void. They've all been high "},{"startTime":458.88,"endTime":464.48,"body":"achievers in high school or for the accelerator"},{"startTime":464.48,"endTime":471.92,"body":"programs, right, Rachel? They've come, they've "},{"startTime":464.48,"endTime":471.92,"body":"led within their bachelor's programs. So they're"},{"startTime":471.92,"endTime":480.08,"body":"not a they're not unleaders, if you will. And "},{"startTime":471.92,"endTime":480.08,"body":"so activating how they have led, how they're"},{"startTime":480.08,"endTime":484.96,"body":"going to take those skills forward. And I always "},{"startTime":480.08,"endTime":484.96,"body":"tell them, especially the accelerated students,"},{"startTime":484.96,"endTime":490.56,"body":"that they're the they're our hope for the future "},{"startTime":484.96,"endTime":490.56,"body":"because they have had so many experiences and how"},{"startTime":490.56,"endTime":496.32,"body":"we can apply them to nursing and have new ways "},{"startTime":490.56,"endTime":496.32,"body":"to think about how nurses function within that"},{"startTime":496.32,"endTime":502.4,"body":"system. That's the group that's telling us you "},{"startTime":496.32,"endTime":502.4,"body":"really need to think about some of the traditional"},{"startTime":502.4,"endTime":508.4,"body":"ways that you're teaching nursing or teaching "},{"startTime":502.4,"endTime":508.4,"body":"leadership or how you think of us as individuals"},{"startTime":508.4,"endTime":515.28,"body":"and leaders. And the more we listen, the more "},{"startTime":508.4,"endTime":515.28,"body":"we take it. A good example to me is with all the"},{"startTime":515.28,"endTime":523.04,"body":"racial unrest in the tw 2020 and moving forward. "},{"startTime":515.28,"endTime":523.04,"body":"Every campus has had nursing students"},{"startTime":523.04,"endTime":530.24,"body":"emerge as significant leaders to tell us where "},{"startTime":523.04,"endTime":530.24,"body":"we need to integrate justice, equity, diversity,"},{"startTime":530.24,"endTime":536.88,"body":"and inclusiveness in myriad ways throughout our "},{"startTime":530.24,"endTime":536.88,"body":"curriculum. And what we need to do is honor that"},{"startTime":536.88,"endTime":544.08,"body":"leadership rather than seeing it as something "},{"startTime":536.88,"endTime":544.08,"body":"that's negative or that is not respecting the"},{"startTime":544.08,"endTime":551.2,"body":"role we achieve as faculty. So that's a great "},{"startTime":544.08,"endTime":551.2,"body":"example of how nursing has changed as a result"},{"startTime":551.2,"endTime":558.64,"body":"of student input and nursing education. Rachel, you "},{"startTime":551.2,"endTime":558.64,"body":"just really outlined it beautifully when you just"},{"startTime":558.64,"endTime":565.44,"body":"framed it in that way. One of the things that I "},{"startTime":558.64,"endTime":565.44,"body":"have found with the DNP students is to ask them"},{"startTime":565.44,"endTime":570.24,"body":"what challenges have you faced in your life. "},{"startTime":565.44,"endTime":570.24,"body":"Not, you know, not put them on the sofa about"},{"startTime":570.24,"endTime":577.28,"body":"their past life but it's amazing how people just "},{"startTime":570.24,"endTime":577.28,"body":"inattend hurdles that they've already been over"},{"startTime":577.28,"endTime":584.56,"body":"because once you realize that you have a history "},{"startTime":577.28,"endTime":584.56,"body":"of success not always perfect but you made it. How"},{"startTime":584.56,"endTime":591.6,"body":"did you make it into a DNP program? There has "},{"startTime":584.56,"endTime":591.6,"body":"to be some challenges if financial, cultural,"},{"startTime":591.6,"endTime":598.32,"body":"environmental, what once people sense that "},{"startTime":591.6,"endTime":598.32,"body":"they you're not saying to them you're perfect,"},{"startTime":598.32,"endTime":606.08,"body":"but this isn't your first rodeo. You are a person "},{"startTime":598.32,"endTime":606.08,"body":"with skills. You have purpose. You're here because"},{"startTime":606.08,"endTime":612.8,"body":"you care. Now, let's start to cultivate that "},{"startTime":606.08,"endTime":612.8,"body":"into more of a strategy than just activity."},{"startTime":613.52,"endTime":618.96,"body":"You know, I use the same line of thinking and "},{"startTime":613.52,"endTime":618.96,"body":"I'm going to go off on a small tangent though"},{"startTime":618.96,"endTime":624.8,"body":"that a lot of nurse educators, you might hear "},{"startTime":618.96,"endTime":624.8,"body":"these students or or practice partners too,"},{"startTime":624.8,"endTime":630.0,"body":"the students and these nurses don't know how to "},{"startTime":624.8,"endTime":630.0,"body":"think. They don't know how to critically think."},{"startTime":630.0,"endTime":637.68,"body":"And I disagree with that. I think like you said, "},{"startTime":630.0,"endTime":637.68,"body":"our learners come to us with the ability to think,"},{"startTime":637.68,"endTime":643.28,"body":"right? They probably drove a car and made a lot "},{"startTime":637.68,"endTime":643.28,"body":"of critical thinking decisions to get to the"},{"startTime":643.28,"endTime":648.56,"body":"school. You know, they got dressed in the context "},{"startTime":643.28,"endTime":648.56,"body":"of the weather. They build out that application."},{"startTime":648.56,"endTime":653.84,"body":"Oh my god. Exactly. You know how to critically "},{"startTime":648.56,"endTime":653.84,"body":"think. It's just the our learners don't know how"},{"startTime":653.84,"endTime":660.0,"body":"to think within the context of taking care of a "},{"startTime":653.84,"endTime":660.0,"body":"patient with end-stage liver disease. Right. So"},{"startTime":660.0,"endTime":666.96,"body":"about activating that prior knowledge and helping "},{"startTime":660.0,"endTime":666.96,"body":"learners really lean on their already established"},{"startTime":666.96,"endTime":672.64,"body":"thinking skills but within a new context. And how "},{"startTime":666.96,"endTime":672.64,"body":"do we do that? And I think you know it seems very"},{"startTime":672.64,"endTime":677.52,"body":"parallel to me what you're saying about leadership "},{"startTime":672.64,"endTime":677.52,"body":"that people come as leaders with leadership"},{"startTime":677.52,"endTime":683.76,"body":"skills but how do we now develop that within the "},{"startTime":677.52,"endTime":683.76,"body":"context of your role in socialization as a nurse"},{"startTime":684.56,"endTime":693.52,"body":"and understanding your value? That's it. we "},{"startTime":684.56,"endTime":693.52,"body":"have to lean in or activate them to think about"},{"startTime":693.52,"endTime":703.04,"body":"their prior ways of leading. Interestingly enough, "},{"startTime":693.52,"endTime":703.04,"body":"sometimes leading has been more aggressive or more"},{"startTime":704.48,"endTime":710.16,"body":"in your face than we need to. So that's one of "},{"startTime":704.48,"endTime":710.16,"body":"the struggles that we're dealing with is we want"},{"startTime":710.16,"endTime":717.68,"body":"to hear what your concerns are and your voice "},{"startTime":710.16,"endTime":717.68,"body":"and how can we help you to bring that forward"},{"startTime":717.68,"endTime":724.56,"body":"in a way that is collaborative, conciliatory and "},{"startTime":717.68,"endTime":724.56,"body":"that we can move forward together. So there are"},{"startTime":724.56,"endTime":732.96,"body":"pieces that need to be tweaked, if you will, to be "},{"startTime":724.56,"endTime":732.96,"body":"in this context, but nevertheless, they come with"},{"startTime":732.96,"endTime":738.96,"body":"a skill. And when we honor that and value that, "},{"startTime":732.96,"endTime":738.96,"body":"gets back to our initial discussion about value,"},{"startTime":738.96,"endTime":744.96,"body":"then they see us and the context they're in in "},{"startTime":738.96,"endTime":744.96,"body":"a whole different light. Very critical. And I"},{"startTime":744.96,"endTime":750.96,"body":"love the fact that you think about teaching liver "},{"startTime":744.96,"endTime":750.96,"body":"disease and leadership in the same context and or"},{"startTime":750.96,"endTime":757.28,"body":"in the with the same frame. And that would make a "},{"startTime":750.96,"endTime":757.28,"body":"great article, you know, because it's so true. You"},{"startTime":757.28,"endTime":763.36,"body":"could take us through context, content, and course "},{"startTime":757.28,"endTime":763.36,"body":"and how one teaches leadership. Absolutely. You"},{"startTime":763.36,"endTime":770.96,"body":"know, I think there's another big driver here is "},{"startTime":763.36,"endTime":770.96,"body":"that health care is radically changing. You know,"},{"startTime":770.96,"endTime":779.04,"body":"it's the train is moving faster than we. So, you "},{"startTime":770.96,"endTime":779.04,"body":"don't want to throw out everything you've used in"},{"startTime":779.04,"endTime":785.36,"body":"your curricula in the past, but you also have to "},{"startTime":779.04,"endTime":785.36,"body":"look at this is a phenomenal time, but it's also"},{"startTime":785.36,"endTime":791.2,"body":"a challenging time. And what do we want to keep "},{"startTime":785.36,"endTime":791.2,"body":"with the way we teach students and what do we"},{"startTime":791.2,"endTime":796.72,"body":"need to delete? What do we need to add? Because "},{"startTime":791.2,"endTime":796.72,"body":"you're you're preparing them for a different"},{"startTime":796.72,"endTime":804.32,"body":"different world. Okay? You could teach anybody "},{"startTime":796.72,"endTime":804.32,"body":"how to do, you know, an IV, but you can't just"},{"startTime":804.32,"endTime":809.12,"body":"move away from the fact that these are they're "},{"startTime":804.32,"endTime":809.12,"body":"going to be change agents and they're going to"},{"startTime":809.12,"endTime":820.0,"body":"be involved in this revolution that's already "},{"startTime":809.12,"endTime":820.0,"body":"happening. Okay. How do we prepare them for that?"},{"startTime":820.0,"endTime":825.76,"body":"You know, you'd brought up about critical "},{"startTime":820.0,"endTime":825.76,"body":"thinking and how we identify ourselves. I'm"},{"startTime":825.76,"endTime":831.2,"body":"thinking about a study that Dr. Pam Ironside "},{"startTime":825.76,"endTime":831.2,"body":"and I did ages ago where it was part of the"},{"startTime":831.2,"endTime":838.48,"body":"integration of gerontology and we asked students "},{"startTime":831.2,"endTime":838.48,"body":"what was the main we asked graduating students all"},{"startTime":838.48,"endTime":842.56,"body":"across the country what were what's the main "},{"startTime":838.48,"endTime":842.56,"body":"thing you learned while you were in nursing"},{"startTime":842.56,"endTime":849.76,"body":"school how would you describe yourself as you "},{"startTime":842.56,"endTime":849.76,"body":"emerge and to a person almost they said I'm a"},{"startTime":849.76,"endTime":858.08,"body":"critical thinker and so then we delve down some "},{"startTime":849.76,"endTime":858.08,"body":"and asked them what that meant And it was very"},{"startTime":858.08,"endTime":865.2,"body":"hard for them to describe meaning to this verb of "},{"startTime":858.08,"endTime":865.2,"body":"critical thinking. And I find the similarity with"},{"startTime":865.2,"endTime":871.04,"body":"leadership. Once you get them to say, \"I'm a "},{"startTime":865.2,"endTime":871.04,"body":"leader.\" What does that mean? What does that"},{"startTime":871.04,"endTime":877.04,"body":"mean for you? How do you describe that? So, "},{"startTime":871.04,"endTime":877.04,"body":"it's getting to thinking in terms just like"},{"startTime":877.04,"endTime":883.52,"body":"you two have helped us with all your learning "},{"startTime":877.04,"endTime":883.52,"body":"science, think in context, what that means."},{"startTime":883.52,"endTime":890.4,"body":"And so we developed an outcome for the gerontology "},{"startTime":883.52,"endTime":890.4,"body":"project that students would say at the end,"},{"startTime":890.4,"endTime":898.64,"body":"I can assess function as well as physical ability "},{"startTime":890.4,"endTime":898.64,"body":"and client expectations to develop a plan of care"},{"startTime":898.64,"endTime":905.6,"body":"that meets individual needs and builds quality and "},{"startTime":898.64,"endTime":905.6,"body":"safe practice. Something like that. That's what"},{"startTime":905.6,"endTime":910.88,"body":"critical thinking is. It has meaning in context. "},{"startTime":905.6,"endTime":910.88,"body":"And so that's where we need to go with our"},{"startTime":910.88,"endTime":917.12,"body":"students to say at the end how they define meaning "},{"startTime":910.88,"endTime":917.12,"body":"in relation to themselves and see if Elaine just"},{"startTime":917.12,"endTime":922.72,"body":"hit the nail on the head though. You have to drive "},{"startTime":917.12,"endTime":922.72,"body":"everything from outcome backwards. You know, we"},{"startTime":922.72,"endTime":932.56,"body":"don't realize that outcome really drives behavior "},{"startTime":922.72,"endTime":932.56,"body":"and behavior, you know, is it's wrapped up in in"},{"startTime":932.56,"endTime":937.6,"body":"learning. But if you don't know what the outcome "},{"startTime":932.56,"endTime":937.6,"body":"is, it's that whole wonderful thing in, you know,"},{"startTime":937.6,"endTime":945.6,"body":"in the story of when the what's her name? She "},{"startTime":937.6,"endTime":945.6,"body":"comes to the cross in the road in in the fable and"},{"startTime":945.6,"endTime":950.8,"body":"she says to the rabbit, \"Which way should I go?\" "},{"startTime":945.6,"endTime":950.8,"body":"And the rabbit says, \"Where do you want to go?\""},{"startTime":950.8,"endTime":955.44,"body":"said, \"I don't really know. It doesn't make said, "},{"startTime":950.8,"endTime":955.44,"body":"well, it doesn't make any difference then.\" Once"},{"startTime":955.44,"endTime":963.04,"body":"you know what outcome is, outcome forces decisions "},{"startTime":955.44,"endTime":963.04,"body":"and behaviors. So I think critical thinking is"},{"startTime":963.04,"endTime":968.56,"body":"nice but it has to have an outcome. You know what "},{"startTime":963.04,"endTime":968.56,"body":"is it that we're trying because you can do that"},{"startTime":968.56,"endTime":973.92,"body":"with students too. You do it in coaching or in "},{"startTime":968.56,"endTime":973.92,"body":"mentoring. What do you want to have happen? What"},{"startTime":973.92,"endTime":981.2,"body":"would be different in your life six months from "},{"startTime":973.92,"endTime":981.2,"body":"now? those specific things are outcome oriented."},{"startTime":981.2,"endTime":990.64,"body":"You know, Elaine, when you were talking about"},{"startTime":981.2,"endTime":990.64,"body":"showing and what I heard was making really making"},{"startTime":990.64,"endTime":994.64,"body":"leadership visible, making critical thinking "},{"startTime":990.64,"endTime":994.64,"body":"visible. And so I guess why I'm hearing that"},{"startTime":994.64,"endTime":998.96,"body":"is when you were talking about in the study, they "},{"startTime":994.64,"endTime":998.96,"body":"had a really hard time articulating what critical"},{"startTime":998.96,"endTime":1003.52,"body":"thinking is. I'm going to share my thought process "},{"startTime":998.96,"endTime":1003.52,"body":"how I got from A to B to C here. When I hear you"},{"startTime":1003.52,"endTime":1010.96,"body":"say that, it makes me think perhaps us identifying "},{"startTime":1003.52,"endTime":1010.96,"body":"and making leadership visible just like we make"},{"startTime":1010.96,"endTime":1016.88,"body":"thinking visible can help our learners, our "},{"startTime":1010.96,"endTime":1016.88,"body":"future nurses, our current nurses be able to"},{"startTime":1016.88,"endTime":1020.56,"body":"identify opportunities for leading in "},{"startTime":1016.88,"endTime":1020.56,"body":"the moment. And it makes me think about,"},{"startTime":1020.56,"endTime":1025.52,"body":"you know, just a class I had yesterday where we're "},{"startTime":1020.56,"endTime":1025.52,"body":"talking about service recovery for prelicensure."},{"startTime":1025.52,"endTime":1031.84,"body":"They're bedside entry-level nurses and I see that "},{"startTime":1025.52,"endTime":1031.84,"body":"if they saw an opportunity for service recovery in"},{"startTime":1031.84,"endTime":1036.56,"body":"a patient that is in-the-moment leadership. They "},{"startTime":1031.84,"endTime":1036.56,"body":"are displaying leadership if they're engaging in"},{"startTime":1036.56,"endTime":1041.6,"body":"service recovery or they can recognize that "},{"startTime":1036.56,"endTime":1041.6,"body":"there's challenges in handoff reporting at"},{"startTime":1041.6,"endTime":1048.0,"body":"change of shift and engaging in shared governance "},{"startTime":1041.6,"endTime":1048.0,"body":"of creating an evidence-based handoff report that"},{"startTime":1048.0,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"helps the outcomes of the unit. And so I think "},{"startTime":1048.0,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"that ties back to what Sal was talking about with"},{"startTime":1051.28,"endTime":1057.36,"body":"outcomes driving behaviors and actions. But I "},{"startTime":1051.28,"endTime":1057.36,"body":"think identifying that, especially when we're"},{"startTime":1057.36,"endTime":1061.36,"body":"role modeling and saying, \"This is leadership. "},{"startTime":1057.36,"endTime":1061.36,"body":"This is an example of it.\" So they can start"},{"startTime":1061.36,"endTime":1067.04,"body":"to recognize it when it happens and recognize the "},{"startTime":1061.36,"endTime":1067.04,"body":"opportunities for them to engage in it from where"},{"startTime":1067.04,"endTime":1073.84,"body":"they are. And not just even I couldn't agree with "},{"startTime":1067.04,"endTime":1073.84,"body":"you more. That's what I mean about integrating"},{"startTime":1073.84,"endTime":1080.64,"body":"leadership throughout. You're going to teach these "},{"startTime":1073.84,"endTime":1080.64,"body":"skills of how you know of management of critical"},{"startTime":1080.64,"endTime":1088.4,"body":"situations but how that looks like leadership "},{"startTime":1080.64,"endTime":1088.4,"body":"and then asking them more how would you think"},{"startTime":1088.4,"endTime":1094.72,"body":"what are the components that you need to have what "},{"startTime":1088.4,"endTime":1094.72,"body":"are the abilities you need to have to lead in that"},{"startTime":1094.72,"endTime":1101.68,"body":"situation well I would recognize the phenomena as "},{"startTime":1094.72,"endTime":1101.68,"body":"it occurred and then I would communicate that and"},{"startTime":1101.68,"endTime":1107.52,"body":"then communication is leadership that's how you "},{"startTime":1101.68,"endTime":1107.52,"body":"would begin that process and break it down into"},{"startTime":1107.52,"endTime":1117.36,"body":"steps. I agree that's that whole idea of not "},{"startTime":1107.52,"endTime":1117.36,"body":"siloing learning as we as we do too much I'm"},{"startTime":1117.36,"endTime":1123.2,"body":"afraid in nursing education. One of the ways "},{"startTime":1117.36,"endTime":1123.2,"body":"Rachel you get at that is driving all of this"},{"startTime":1123.2,"endTime":1128.4,"body":"learning through stakeholders. One of the things "},{"startTime":1123.2,"endTime":1128.4,"body":"that that we do a lot in the corporate world,"},{"startTime":1128.4,"endTime":1135.2,"body":"we say who are the stakeholders in our business? "},{"startTime":1128.4,"endTime":1135.2,"body":"Who has the most to gain or lose by our success or"},{"startTime":1135.2,"endTime":1142.4,"body":"failure? When we do that, then we start to create "},{"startTime":1135.2,"endTime":1142.4,"body":"the visual of what do we want our stakeholders to"},{"startTime":1142.4,"endTime":1150.32,"body":"say about us in six months. Okay? What would they "},{"startTime":1142.4,"endTime":1150.32,"body":"say about us today? There's always, you know, you"},{"startTime":1150.32,"endTime":1156.8,"body":"never get a mesh. And if they're not if we're not "},{"startTime":1150.32,"endTime":1156.8,"body":"where we want to be, what do we have to do? See,"},{"startTime":1156.8,"endTime":1163.28,"body":"it gets back to behavior. You know, all work, you "},{"startTime":1156.8,"endTime":1163.28,"body":"know, learning without action is nice, but it has"},{"startTime":1163.28,"endTime":1171.76,"body":"no value. You have to do things. And you need "},{"startTime":1163.28,"endTime":1171.76,"body":"to have a process that enables people to say,"},{"startTime":1171.76,"endTime":1177.6,"body":"well, gee, you know, I'm always amazed and I tell "},{"startTime":1171.76,"endTime":1177.6,"body":"Elaine this sometimes when you work with nurses,"},{"startTime":1177.6,"endTime":1182.8,"body":"they ignore the fact that the faculty are "},{"startTime":1177.6,"endTime":1182.8,"body":"stakeholders. So they have to create rules"},{"startTime":1182.8,"endTime":1188.24,"body":"of engagement for themselves. How do they "},{"startTime":1182.8,"endTime":1188.24,"body":"want to behave towards each other? You know,"},{"startTime":1188.24,"endTime":1194.96,"body":"how do they want to handle gossip or conflict or "},{"startTime":1188.24,"endTime":1194.96,"body":"all those things? That's what we need to do. We"},{"startTime":1194.96,"endTime":1204.8,"body":"need to drive this. And by the way, we really "},{"startTime":1194.96,"endTime":1204.8,"body":"need to see the students as as stakeholders."},{"startTime":1204.8,"endTime":1210.96,"body":"I agree. And you know too, I wanted to circle "},{"startTime":1204.8,"endTime":1210.96,"body":"back too about the Alice in Wonderland quote"},{"startTime":1210.96,"endTime":1215.28,"body":"about the facing the cat in the woods and you know "},{"startTime":1210.96,"endTime":1215.28,"body":"which direction where do you want to go? Well,"},{"startTime":1215.28,"endTime":1219.36,"body":"it doesn't matter which path you take if you "},{"startTime":1215.28,"endTime":1219.36,"body":"don't know. I think that just further emphasizes"},{"startTime":1219.36,"endTime":1222.96,"body":"your comment earlier about the importance "},{"startTime":1219.36,"endTime":1222.96,"body":"of coaching and how Michelle said, you know,"},{"startTime":1222.96,"endTime":1227.04,"body":"having these mentors to hold up a mirror. I can't "},{"startTime":1222.96,"endTime":1227.04,"body":"tell you how much when I went through one of the"},{"startTime":1227.04,"endTime":1232.24,"body":"NLM leadership programs and we had coaching, it "},{"startTime":1227.04,"endTime":1232.24,"body":"was that mirror that was held up by my coach that"},{"startTime":1232.24,"endTime":1238.72,"body":"helped me identify a tape that was running in "},{"startTime":1232.24,"endTime":1238.72,"body":"my head of the train's going to come and if I"},{"startTime":1238.72,"endTime":1241.92,"body":"don't get on it, I'm going to miss it and it's "},{"startTime":1238.72,"endTime":1241.92,"body":"not going to come back again. So, this is why I"},{"startTime":1241.92,"endTime":1246.72,"body":"say yes to everything. Just like you said, S that "},{"startTime":1241.92,"endTime":1246.72,"body":"the problem with nurses sometimes or the challenge"},{"startTime":1246.72,"endTime":1250.4,"body":"is that they take on so much. They have so many "},{"startTime":1246.72,"endTime":1250.4,"body":"activities that it's not focused, right? It's not"},{"startTime":1250.4,"endTime":1255.2,"body":"driven by where you want to go. just like the path "},{"startTime":1250.4,"endTime":1255.2,"body":"in the woods with Alice and Wonderland. And so it"},{"startTime":1255.2,"endTime":1259.04,"body":"was through that coaching process that mirror "},{"startTime":1255.2,"endTime":1259.04,"body":"came up that helped me recognize that train's"},{"startTime":1259.04,"endTime":1264.4,"body":"going to come back around again. And I need to say "},{"startTime":1259.04,"endTime":1264.4,"body":"not yes to everything by getting on every train,"},{"startTime":1264.4,"endTime":1269.6,"body":"but saying yes to the right things. And that's "},{"startTime":1264.4,"endTime":1269.6,"body":"only going to happen if I know where I'm trying"},{"startTime":1269.6,"endTime":1273.28,"body":"to go. And I think that's the importance of "},{"startTime":1269.6,"endTime":1273.28,"body":"coaching and then seeing that connection with"},{"startTime":1273.28,"endTime":1279.28,"body":"outcomes. It's also important. You know, you "},{"startTime":1273.28,"endTime":1279.28,"body":"raised a great point. We have to find ways to"},{"startTime":1279.28,"endTime":1287.04,"body":"provide coaching which is also economically sound. "},{"startTime":1279.28,"endTime":1287.04,"body":"You know, it's it would be wonderful if you could"},{"startTime":1287.04,"endTime":1292.64,"body":"have every person have three or four sessions "},{"startTime":1287.04,"endTime":1292.64,"body":"every couple years. That would be terrific."},{"startTime":1292.64,"endTime":1301.68,"body":"You also though can teach group coaching. You "},{"startTime":1292.64,"endTime":1301.68,"body":"can teach how the process works. And then you"},{"startTime":1301.68,"endTime":1308.64,"body":"may be able to cultivate students who themselves "},{"startTime":1301.68,"endTime":1308.64,"body":"can become coaches for other students. And that's"},{"startTime":1308.64,"endTime":1315.92,"body":"true of faculty. The big issue with it is that "},{"startTime":1308.64,"endTime":1315.92,"body":"we have to find better ways to invest in people"},{"startTime":1315.92,"endTime":1321.76,"body":"because your investment in people ultimately pays "},{"startTime":1315.92,"endTime":1321.76,"body":"off. You can even show by the way you know people"},{"startTime":1321.76,"endTime":1326.88,"body":"always say well that's a soft issue. No it's not "},{"startTime":1321.76,"endTime":1326.88,"body":"a soft issue. You will find out that industries"},{"startTime":1326.88,"endTime":1333.44,"body":"that lose people on a regular basis, it is not "},{"startTime":1326.88,"endTime":1333.44,"body":"cost- effective to lose good people. So if you're"},{"startTime":1333.44,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"losing nurses, one of the things you have to look "},{"startTime":1333.44,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"at is what's the economics of that. It can't be"},{"startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1345.68,"body":"good and sound economics. So you have to find a "},{"startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1345.68,"body":"better way to cultivate the environment and to"},{"startTime":1345.68,"endTime":1351.44,"body":"enable people to withstand all the pressures "},{"startTime":1345.68,"endTime":1351.44,"body":"that they face. So, we have to find a better"},{"startTime":1351.44,"endTime":1360.56,"body":"way to coach everybody. You know, we've spent "},{"startTime":1351.44,"endTime":1360.56,"body":"I'm we're working now through the NLN archives"},{"startTime":1360.56,"endTime":1367.68,"body":"and the Saga series on the curriculum revolution "},{"startTime":1360.56,"endTime":1367.68,"body":"heroes, if you will, who back in the 80s and 90s,"},{"startTime":1367.68,"endTime":1374.32,"body":"and certainly they introduced us to reflection "},{"startTime":1367.68,"endTime":1374.32,"body":"as something that was not really inherent in the"},{"startTime":1374.32,"endTime":1380.24,"body":"in nursing education. I don't know if we've really "},{"startTime":1374.32,"endTime":1380.24,"body":"gotten there yet, to be honest. You know, and then"},{"startTime":1380.24,"endTime":1385.52,"body":"when you talk about coaching, Rachel, it was the "},{"startTime":1380.24,"endTime":1385.52,"body":"only time when I thought, \"Wow, someone's really"},{"startTime":1385.52,"endTime":1392.56,"body":"focusing on me as an individual and my thinking "},{"startTime":1385.52,"endTime":1392.56,"body":"and how that thinking guides so much of what I"},{"startTime":1392.56,"endTime":1399.12,"body":"do.\" I spent all my time helping other people get "},{"startTime":1392.56,"endTime":1399.12,"body":"directed, but focusing on me. And it gets back to"},{"startTime":1399.12,"endTime":1407.6,"body":"our original conversation about valuing self and "},{"startTime":1399.12,"endTime":1407.6,"body":"understanding self and how we really make that"},{"startTime":1407.6,"endTime":1415.44,"body":"visible. And until we integrate reflection about "},{"startTime":1407.6,"endTime":1415.44,"body":"self into nursing curricula, I don't know how much"},{"startTime":1415.44,"endTime":1422.16,"body":"we're going to really gain about having students "},{"startTime":1415.44,"endTime":1422.16,"body":"leave our programs with an idea of how them as a"},{"startTime":1422.16,"endTime":1429.44,"body":"valued member of the profession and as just as a "},{"startTime":1422.16,"endTime":1429.44,"body":"valued person really makes a contribution defining"},{"startTime":1429.44,"endTime":1434.88,"body":"the outcome for themselves and not be seeing it "},{"startTime":1429.44,"endTime":1434.88,"body":"as soft and we don't have enough time to do it"},{"startTime":1434.88,"endTime":1441.44,"body":"because they can't pass NCLEX because I think in "},{"startTime":1434.88,"endTime":1441.44,"body":"the long run it negates their ability to really"},{"startTime":1441.44,"endTime":1447.44,"body":"make a significant contribution. Yeah. You know, "},{"startTime":1441.44,"endTime":1447.44,"body":"one of my observations too is that it doesn't make"},{"startTime":1447.44,"endTime":1453.12,"body":"you more selfish. It makes you more centered "},{"startTime":1447.44,"endTime":1453.12,"body":"towards other people. It's incredible that,"},{"startTime":1453.12,"endTime":1459.52,"body":"you know, it's that whole idea of when the oxygen "},{"startTime":1453.12,"endTime":1459.52,"body":"mask comes down, put it on yourself first before"},{"startTime":1459.52,"endTime":1467.28,"body":"you give it to somebody else. My observation is "},{"startTime":1459.52,"endTime":1467.28,"body":"that I've seen tremendous growth in being outgoing"},{"startTime":1467.28,"endTime":1474.16,"body":"more once they realize their own value. You know, "},{"startTime":1467.28,"endTime":1474.16,"body":"when a person senses that they have value, I mean,"},{"startTime":1474.16,"endTime":1480.56,"body":"leadership without that doesn't exist, you "},{"startTime":1474.16,"endTime":1480.56,"body":"know, it's false. But once they grasp that,"},{"startTime":1480.56,"endTime":1487.92,"body":"they don't become by and large more selfish. "},{"startTime":1480.56,"endTime":1487.92,"body":"They become more centered towards others."},{"startTime":1490.08,"endTime":1498.8,"body":"We have a lot to do to change nursing "},{"startTime":1490.08,"endTime":1498.8,"body":"curricula. Good thing you're young."},{"startTime":1498.8,"endTime":1507.92,"body":"Well, I think that's a beautiful way to summarize "},{"startTime":1498.8,"endTime":1507.92,"body":"our entire conversation. And I do think we have a"},{"startTime":1507.92,"endTime":1515.76,"body":"lot of work to do and I think Rachel and I are "},{"startTime":1507.92,"endTime":1515.76,"body":"both very passionate about our work. So it's,"},{"startTime":1515.76,"endTime":1521.76,"body":"you know, I think we're ready for the challenge. "},{"startTime":1515.76,"endTime":1521.76,"body":"I know a lot of our colleagues are and there's,"},{"startTime":1521.76,"endTime":1529.92,"body":"this time is full of a lot of change for obvious "},{"startTime":1521.76,"endTime":1529.92,"body":"reasons, coming sort of out of a pandemic. I don't"},{"startTime":1529.92,"endTime":1537.12,"body":"think we're out of it yet, but leaning that way "},{"startTime":1529.92,"endTime":1537.12,"body":"and all the changes and the pivots that we've had"},{"startTime":1537.12,"endTime":1543.6,"body":"to endure in real time just to respond to an "},{"startTime":1537.12,"endTime":1543.6,"body":"emergency. But I think we like going back to"},{"startTime":1543.6,"endTime":1550.8,"body":"what Sal said, just deciding what what to keep, "},{"startTime":1543.6,"endTime":1550.8,"body":"what's good, and then what what to change and"},{"startTime":1550.8,"endTime":1556.48,"body":"what to move forward. Being so intentional about "},{"startTime":1550.8,"endTime":1556.48,"body":"that and strategic, I think, can help us not get"},{"startTime":1556.48,"endTime":1564.08,"body":"overwhelmed by that that charge and that challenge "},{"startTime":1556.48,"endTime":1564.08,"body":"to make big change. I find it very exciting,"},{"startTime":1564.08,"endTime":1571.52,"body":"but I don't know. Rachel, any last thought? My "},{"startTime":1564.08,"endTime":1571.52,"body":"last thought is Elaine and Sal, I'm waiting for the day"},{"startTime":1571.52,"endTime":1575.44,"body":"you do a TED talk. I want that to happen. And the "},{"startTime":1571.52,"endTime":1575.44,"body":"day that it happens, I'm going to be in the front"},{"startTime":1575.44,"endTime":1581.36,"body":"seat of that dark room. Taking in every word you "},{"startTime":1575.44,"endTime":1581.36,"body":"say. So, we have to make that day happen because"},{"startTime":1581.36,"endTime":1586.64,"body":"you have so much wisdom and insight to share. It's "},{"startTime":1581.36,"endTime":1586.64,"body":"so inspiring, beneficial, motivating. Every time I"},{"startTime":1586.64,"endTime":1593.44,"body":"get a chance to absorb what you pour into everyone "},{"startTime":1586.64,"endTime":1593.44,"body":"else. So, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank"},{"startTime":1593.44,"endTime":1601.92,"body":"you. And you know, real quick, Elaine, we do have "},{"startTime":1593.44,"endTime":1601.92,"body":"rapidfire questions that we have asked of Sal. I"},{"startTime":1601.92,"endTime":1608.8,"body":"would you be interested or willing to answer some "},{"startTime":1601.92,"endTime":1608.8,"body":"of these fun questions? Yeah. Okay. So, if you"},{"startTime":1608.8,"endTime":1613.44,"body":"were to write a memoir, what would you title the "},{"startTime":1608.8,"endTime":1613.44,"body":"book? You know, I thought about that even before"},{"startTime":1613.44,"endTime":1617.84,"body":"the question and I thought it's something about "},{"startTime":1613.44,"endTime":1617.84,"body":"balancing. I'm a Libra and I'm always kind of"},{"startTime":1617.84,"endTime":1622.8,"body":"looking to balance. So, finding a balanced life or "},{"startTime":1617.84,"endTime":1622.8,"body":"something like that or I don't know if I found it"},{"startTime":1622.8,"endTime":1629.28,"body":"yet, but it's the outcome I'm searching for. Okay, "},{"startTime":1622.8,"endTime":1629.28,"body":"wonderful. What is on the top of your reading"},{"startTime":1629.28,"endTime":1636.32,"body":"list right now for fun? The fun answer has to be "},{"startTime":1629.28,"endTime":1636.32,"body":"Louise Perry and her Three Pines. Do you know all"},{"startTime":1636.32,"endTime":1643.52,"body":"those mystery series? Oh, no. You got to get into "},{"startTime":1636.32,"endTime":1643.52,"body":"Three Pines and Louise Perry in south of Montreal."},{"startTime":1644.32,"endTime":1651.6,"body":"A lot of people die in that little town, but"},{"startTime":1644.32,"endTime":1651.6,"body":"it's just a lot of fun. You really know the"},{"startTime":1651.6,"endTime":1659.92,"body":"characters, talk about context and how their lives "},{"startTime":1651.6,"endTime":1659.92,"body":"unfold. So, it's fun. That's great. And what is"},{"startTime":1659.92,"endTime":1667.44,"body":"your favorite quote? You know, I love Anai Nin's "},{"startTime":1659.92,"endTime":1667.44,"body":"quote about we see the world, we don't see the"},{"startTime":1667.44,"endTime":1675.04,"body":"world as it is, we see it as we are. And I think "},{"startTime":1667.44,"endTime":1675.04,"body":"that's been the foundation of all this work about"},{"startTime":1675.04,"endTime":1681.76,"body":"reflection and gathering and coming together "},{"startTime":1675.04,"endTime":1681.76,"body":"to see it, you know, from our perspective,"},{"startTime":1681.76,"endTime":1688.8,"body":"valuing self and then moving that perspective "},{"startTime":1681.76,"endTime":1688.8,"body":"into the way the world is. So that's always"},{"startTime":1688.8,"endTime":1694.48,"body":"been very close to me. Wonderful. That like fits "},{"startTime":1688.8,"endTime":1694.48,"body":"with our, you know, the theme of this conversation"},{"startTime":1694.48,"endTime":1700.56,"body":"so well. Absolutely. If you could have dinner "},{"startTime":1694.48,"endTime":1700.56,"body":"with one person, dead or alive, who would it"},{"startTime":1700.56,"endTime":1705.12,"body":"be? And you are sitting next to your husband, so "},{"startTime":1700.56,"endTime":1705.12,"body":"it might be I know. I've had during the pandemic,"},{"startTime":1705.12,"endTime":1712.16,"body":"too many dinners. There you go. I have to say "},{"startTime":1705.12,"endTime":1712.16,"body":"Michelle Obama. I so admire her. I probably"},{"startTime":1712.16,"endTime":1718.56,"body":"would be so odd that I wouldn't know what to say "},{"startTime":1712.16,"endTime":1718.56,"body":"or might not say anything, but what what a spirit,"},{"startTime":1718.56,"endTime":1727.84,"body":"what an energy, and just a commitment to people. "},{"startTime":1718.56,"endTime":1727.84,"body":"She is just inspirational to me. Wonderful. Well,"},{"startTime":1727.84,"endTime":1732.56,"body":"thank you very much both of you for joining us "},{"startTime":1727.84,"endTime":1732.56,"body":"in this I think very important conversation."},{"startTime":1732.56,"endTime":1743.52,"body":"Very timely. And thank you very much. Thank you "},{"startTime":1732.56,"endTime":1743.52,"body":"Michelle. Bye Rachel. Byebye. Bye. Thank you."},{"startTime":1743.52,"endTime":1749.04,"body":"Thank you for joining us on this episode of NLN "},{"startTime":1743.52,"endTime":1749.04,"body":"Nursing EDge Unscripted Surface. We hope you"},{"startTime":1749.04,"endTime":1754.08,"body":"join us next time. Until then remember, "},{"startTime":1749.04,"endTime":1754.08,"body":"whether your water is calm or choppy,"},{"startTime":1754.08,"endTime":1775.92,"body":"stay connected. Get vulnerable and "},{"startTime":1754.08,"endTime":1775.92,"body":"dare to go beneath the surface."}]}