{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":36.88,"endTime":41.92,"body":"Welcome to this episode of the NLN podcast, "},{"startTime":36.88,"endTime":41.92,"body":"Nursing EDge Unscripted, the Surface Track,"},{"startTime":41.92,"endTime":47.92,"body":"and thank you for joining us. The episode is "},{"startTime":41.92,"endTime":47.92,"body":"entitled Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion: From"},{"startTime":47.92,"endTime":53.44,"body":"Classroom Conversations to Clinical Care, where we "},{"startTime":47.92,"endTime":53.44,"body":"will discuss how nurse educators can help bridge"},{"startTime":53.44,"endTime":59.84,"body":"the academic gap around issues of diversity, "},{"startTime":53.44,"endTime":59.84,"body":"equity, and inclusion. More specifically, we will"},{"startTime":59.84,"endTime":65.68,"body":"explore the knowledge, skills, and abilities our "},{"startTime":59.84,"endTime":65.68,"body":"learners need to create meaningful and therapeutic"},{"startTime":65.68,"endTime":71.36,"body":"relationships with their future colleagues, "},{"startTime":65.68,"endTime":71.36,"body":"leaders, and patients. And to help us today,"},{"startTime":71.36,"endTime":78.16,"body":"we have a very special guest, Dr. Jeffrey Ash, who "},{"startTime":71.36,"endTime":78.16,"body":"is an associate dean for diversity and inclusion"},{"startTime":78.16,"endTime":84.0,"body":"and an assistant professor in the partnerships "},{"startTime":78.16,"endTime":84.0,"body":"professional education and practice department"},{"startTime":84.0,"endTime":90.24,"body":"at the University of Maryland School of Nursing "},{"startTime":84.0,"endTime":90.24,"body":"in Baltimore, Maryland. Dr. Dr. Ash's experience"},{"startTime":90.24,"endTime":95.68,"body":"includes a wide range of professional service "},{"startTime":90.24,"endTime":95.68,"body":"and academic achievements, including serving"},{"startTime":95.68,"endTime":102.56,"body":"as a diversity leadership mentor in the fellows "},{"startTime":95.68,"endTime":102.56,"body":"mentoring program led by the National Association"},{"startTime":102.56,"endTime":109.92,"body":"of Diversity Officers in Higher Education and he "},{"startTime":102.56,"endTime":109.92,"body":"also co-chairs a diversity leadership consortium"},{"startTime":109.92,"endTime":117.2,"body":"of diversity deans in the Big 10 academic "},{"startTime":109.92,"endTime":117.2,"body":"alliance. Welcome Jeff. Thank you for joining us."},{"startTime":118.0,"endTime":124.72,"body":"You read about yourself, you're like, "},{"startTime":118.0,"endTime":124.72,"body":"\"Wow, is that me? Did I do that?\""},{"startTime":124.72,"endTime":135.6,"body":"Yes. And it's abbreviated. I cut out a lot of good "},{"startTime":124.72,"endTime":135.6,"body":"stuff. No, it's fine. It's fine. I'm small town"},{"startTime":135.6,"endTime":145.84,"body":"guy. These titles and I think a lot of it's just "},{"startTime":135.6,"endTime":145.84,"body":"over overhyped to be perfectly honest. I'm from"},{"startTime":145.84,"endTime":153.84,"body":"a small town, not much bigger than whatever room "},{"startTime":145.84,"endTime":153.84,"body":"you're in. So, and it's a pretty informal place"},{"startTime":153.84,"endTime":163.12,"body":"and, I know that I'm pretty informal and that's "},{"startTime":153.84,"endTime":163.12,"body":"probably that's my preference actually. Sure. The"},{"startTime":163.12,"endTime":171.6,"body":"town I grew in grew up in has population "},{"startTime":163.12,"endTime":171.6,"body":"the last I think 2010 census 642 people."},{"startTime":172.88,"endTime":181.6,"body":"There's one stoplight in town. There's one high "},{"startTime":172.88,"endTime":181.6,"body":"school in the whole county. That's Kent County,"},{"startTime":181.6,"endTime":189.84,"body":"Maryland. So, the name of the high school I was "},{"startTime":181.6,"endTime":189.84,"body":"Kent County High School. I remember when I got"},{"startTime":189.84,"endTime":196.24,"body":"to Towson University, the joke if you're from Kent "},{"startTime":189.84,"endTime":196.24,"body":"County and you played sports is you automatically"},{"startTime":196.24,"endTime":203.44,"body":"made the all county team because there's only "},{"startTime":196.24,"endTime":203.44,"body":"one high school in the county. But you know there"},{"startTime":203.44,"endTime":213.68,"body":"there's crime is you know it's such a small place "},{"startTime":203.44,"endTime":213.68,"body":"if if you stole someone's car everybody would know"},{"startTime":213.68,"endTime":223.68,"body":"you did it. It's such a small town atmosphere. My "},{"startTime":213.68,"endTime":223.68,"body":"parents, well, my mom still leaves the spare key"},{"startTime":223.68,"endTime":232.56,"body":"in the extra cars on the floor mat very visible "},{"startTime":223.68,"endTime":232.56,"body":"if you walk up to the yard to be right there. And"},{"startTime":232.56,"endTime":241.52,"body":"most folks the keys under the under the doormat. "},{"startTime":232.56,"endTime":241.52,"body":"So it's something special about growing up in a"},{"startTime":241.52,"endTime":252.96,"body":"small town that kind of sticks with you many years "},{"startTime":241.52,"endTime":252.96,"body":"later. So, but yeah, it is it is very different."},{"startTime":252.96,"endTime":259.44,"body":"I would imagine that's a very maybe jarring is "},{"startTime":252.96,"endTime":259.44,"body":"not the word or different transition going from"},{"startTime":259.44,"endTime":267.28,"body":"Kent County to working in inner city Baltimore. "},{"startTime":259.44,"endTime":267.28,"body":"Oh, it is. It is. I went to a workshop many years"},{"startTime":267.28,"endTime":275.28,"body":"ago that spoke about that. I think it was I think "},{"startTime":267.28,"endTime":275.28,"body":"it was entitled the positionality narrative which"},{"startTime":275.28,"endTime":283.76,"body":"basically spoke to how where you're from really "},{"startTime":275.28,"endTime":283.76,"body":"influences how you manage and work with people."},{"startTime":284.88,"endTime":290.56,"body":"You know and that's why for me you don't "},{"startTime":284.88,"endTime":290.56,"body":"necessarily need an appointment to I may not"},{"startTime":290.56,"endTime":296.8,"body":"be there if you didn't have an appointment but "},{"startTime":290.56,"endTime":296.8,"body":"you know I don't see these titles and you know"},{"startTime":296.8,"endTime":303.04,"body":"sometimes I like it's just too much. You don't "},{"startTime":296.8,"endTime":303.04,"body":"need an appointment to come see me if you got some"},{"startTime":303.04,"endTime":311.44,"body":"stuff on your mind just see me in the hallway. "},{"startTime":303.04,"endTime":311.44,"body":"You know, I prefer to walk places because in"},{"startTime":311.44,"endTime":321.12,"body":"Kent County there was there was no mass transit. "},{"startTime":311.44,"endTime":321.12,"body":"So I often share the story when I was at Towson"},{"startTime":321.12,"endTime":328.16,"body":"I'd been there about a month and I was catching "},{"startTime":321.12,"endTime":328.16,"body":"the bus back home to Greyhound which was downtown"},{"startTime":328.16,"endTime":334.56,"body":"Fyet Street at the time. I'd never been on a "},{"startTime":328.16,"endTime":334.56,"body":"mass transit bus and I remember I called the bus"},{"startTime":334.56,"endTime":340.24,"body":"station from Towson. I called Greyhound and asked "},{"startTime":334.56,"endTime":340.24,"body":"how many miles is it from York Road where Towson"},{"startTime":340.24,"endTime":350.48,"body":"was to the Greyhound station and I think they told "},{"startTime":340.24,"endTime":350.48,"body":"me it was 11 miles. So I allowed myself 30 minutes"},{"startTime":350.48,"endTime":358.16,"body":"and 30 minutes later I could still see the stop "},{"startTime":350.48,"endTime":358.16,"body":"that I had gotten on it at the university. It took"},{"startTime":358.8,"endTime":364.96,"body":"it took like two hours to get to go to those "},{"startTime":358.8,"endTime":364.96,"body":"11 miles down York Road and then on Northern"},{"startTime":364.96,"endTime":371.12,"body":"Park cross Northern Parkway and oh my I couldn't "},{"startTime":364.96,"endTime":371.12,"body":"believe it would take that long. But I'd never"},{"startTime":371.12,"endTime":381.36,"body":"been on a on a city or mass transit. I had no idea "},{"startTime":371.12,"endTime":381.36,"body":"it would take that long to go 11 miles. So yeah,"},{"startTime":381.36,"endTime":389.52,"body":"the traffic alone I imagine is very different. "},{"startTime":381.36,"endTime":389.52,"body":"Oh yeah, there there is no rush hour. It's Yeah,"},{"startTime":389.52,"endTime":393.52,"body":"there's no such thing as rush hour, right? That's "},{"startTime":389.52,"endTime":393.52,"body":"the That's the beauty of the Eastern Shore,"},{"startTime":393.52,"endTime":399.28,"body":"though. Yeah. There's no rush hour. You're not "},{"startTime":393.52,"endTime":399.28,"body":"rushing. The closer you get the closer you get"},{"startTime":399.28,"endTime":405.92,"body":"to Ocean City, you might it gets a little hectic. "},{"startTime":399.28,"endTime":405.92,"body":"Especially this time of year after what, Memorial"},{"startTime":405.92,"endTime":417.76,"body":"Day. But most times it's pretty easygoing. So, "},{"startTime":405.92,"endTime":417.76,"body":"just a different way of life. And it really does."},{"startTime":417.76,"endTime":425.2,"body":"I'm really proud of that. I if I had to do over "},{"startTime":417.76,"endTime":425.2,"body":"again, I do it the same way. So and yeah, I think"},{"startTime":425.2,"endTime":432.16,"body":"it just helps relate helps me relate to folks. "},{"startTime":425.2,"endTime":432.16,"body":"In fact, it's kind of annoying when I meet for me"},{"startTime":432.16,"endTime":436.64,"body":"just personally when you meet people for the first "},{"startTime":432.16,"endTime":436.64,"body":"time and you ask them their name and they say,"},{"startTime":436.64,"endTime":441.76,"body":"\"Oh, I'm Dr. So and so.\" I'm like, \"That's not "},{"startTime":436.64,"endTime":441.76,"body":"your name. That's not your name. Your name's"},{"startTime":441.76,"endTime":448.96,"body":"not Dr. So-and-so.\" You know that. anyway, you "},{"startTime":441.76,"endTime":448.96,"body":"know that that really resonates with me, Jeff,"},{"startTime":448.96,"endTime":453.92,"body":"because I've been working really hard on this "},{"startTime":448.96,"endTime":453.92,"body":"recognition like when we introduce ourselves in"},{"startTime":453.92,"endTime":459.76,"body":"in professional settings, I'll say, \"Oh, I am an "},{"startTime":453.92,"endTime":459.76,"body":"associate professor.\" Well, I that's not who I am."},{"startTime":459.76,"endTime":465.44,"body":"That's the role I function in. And so that type "},{"startTime":459.76,"endTime":465.44,"body":"of thing resonates with me because it's a it's a"},{"startTime":465.44,"endTime":472.48,"body":"paradigm shift of you're more than your role. "},{"startTime":465.44,"endTime":472.48,"body":"You're more than yeah that speaks to I've been"},{"startTime":472.48,"endTime":478.72,"body":"even practicing that with emotions or all kinds "},{"startTime":472.48,"endTime":478.72,"body":"of things right like I am angry you are not anger"},{"startTime":478.72,"endTime":485.84,"body":"you are feeling angry it's an emotion it's an "},{"startTime":478.72,"endTime":485.84,"body":"experience but you are not anger I have to remind"},{"startTime":485.84,"endTime":491.36,"body":"myself that sure you know I've also followed "},{"startTime":485.84,"endTime":491.36,"body":"the work of a researcher many years ago guy"},{"startTime":491.36,"endTime":499.12,"body":"named David Rock and David Rock you know wrote an "},{"startTime":491.36,"endTime":499.12,"body":"article I want to say around 2009. It's entitled"},{"startTime":499.12,"endTime":507.76,"body":"managing with the brain in mind and it speaks to "},{"startTime":499.12,"endTime":507.76,"body":"just the neuroscience behind inclusion and he's"},{"startTime":507.76,"endTime":516.16,"body":"identified like this acronym it's called scarf. "},{"startTime":507.76,"endTime":516.16,"body":"What are the barriers to inclusion? And the S"},{"startTime":516.16,"endTime":524.88,"body":"is for status. One of the barriers to inclusion is "},{"startTime":516.16,"endTime":524.88,"body":"status. You know we use terms like junior faculty."},{"startTime":524.88,"endTime":529.76,"body":"Well who wants to be the junior? Who wants to be "},{"startTime":524.88,"endTime":529.76,"body":"on the JV, right? Who who wants who wants to be"},{"startTime":529.76,"endTime":541.04,"body":"referred to like that? So status when I'm scar "},{"startTime":529.76,"endTime":541.04,"body":"status, certainty or in this case uncertainty,"},{"startTime":541.04,"endTime":548.4,"body":"autonomy, relatedness, and fairness. And when "},{"startTime":541.04,"endTime":548.4,"body":"we don't have those things, rock essentially"},{"startTime":548.4,"endTime":557.6,"body":"concludes to your brain, the feeling of exclusion "},{"startTime":548.4,"endTime":557.6,"body":"is the same as being in pain or being hungry. So"},{"startTime":557.6,"endTime":562.8,"body":"when we don't know things, you know, some people "},{"startTime":557.6,"endTime":562.8,"body":"know, some people don't. So sometimes one of the"},{"startTime":562.8,"endTime":569.2,"body":"first things I'll ask is it a secret? How is "},{"startTime":562.8,"endTime":569.2,"body":"it this side of the aisle knows but that side"},{"startTime":569.2,"endTime":576.88,"body":"of the aisle doesn't? No. And people sometimes "},{"startTime":569.2,"endTime":576.88,"body":"use information like that as a form of status,"},{"startTime":576.88,"endTime":583.52,"body":"you know, and that that's a barrier to inclusion. "},{"startTime":576.88,"endTime":583.52,"body":"So, it's and he basically concludes when you feel"},{"startTime":583.52,"endTime":591.2,"body":"excluded to your brain, it heightens what he "},{"startTime":583.52,"endTime":591.2,"body":"refers to as your threat response. But when"},{"startTime":591.2,"endTime":598.72,"body":"you feel included, it heightens what's called your "},{"startTime":591.2,"endTime":598.72,"body":"reward response. And to me, a great example is if"},{"startTime":598.72,"endTime":603.36,"body":"you've ever gone to like a workshop or conference "},{"startTime":598.72,"endTime":603.36,"body":"or something, you open the door and there's a room"},{"startTime":603.36,"endTime":609.04,"body":"full of people that that are seemingly looking "},{"startTime":603.36,"endTime":609.04,"body":"at you and you don't know anybody, right? Your"},{"startTime":609.04,"endTime":615.6,"body":"threat response is pretty high. But the minute "},{"startTime":609.04,"endTime":615.6,"body":"you see a familiar face or somebody you recognize,"},{"startTime":615.6,"endTime":621.2,"body":"you're like, \"Oh, I'm going to sit by sit by you.\" "},{"startTime":615.6,"endTime":621.2,"body":"Your reward response is really high because you"},{"startTime":621.2,"endTime":630.08,"body":"see something familiar. So it's really about being "},{"startTime":621.2,"endTime":630.08,"body":"mindful. I feel like I sometimes will will boast"},{"startTime":630.08,"endTime":636.4,"body":"and say my my memory is pretty photographic. But "},{"startTime":630.08,"endTime":636.4,"body":"having said that, I really try to pay attention"},{"startTime":636.4,"endTime":644.96,"body":"and be very observant, you know, reading body "},{"startTime":636.4,"endTime":644.96,"body":"language. One of the things with the pandemic"},{"startTime":644.96,"endTime":650.96,"body":"that I've missed doing is walking the building and "},{"startTime":644.96,"endTime":650.96,"body":"engaging students because I see people sometimes"},{"startTime":650.96,"endTime":659.68,"body":"sitting alone and they're really alone. You're not "},{"startTime":650.96,"endTime":659.68,"body":"studying you. There's just a look of alone. It's a"},{"startTime":659.68,"endTime":664.72,"body":"different when you're looking you're studying and "},{"startTime":659.68,"endTime":664.72,"body":"you're alone, but it's another look when you're"},{"startTime":664.72,"endTime":672.08,"body":"just alone that looks isolated. So I've missed "},{"startTime":664.72,"endTime":672.08,"body":"doing that. I like being back in the building,"},{"startTime":672.08,"endTime":678.48,"body":"being engaged folks in the elevators and "},{"startTime":672.08,"endTime":678.48,"body":"hearing conversations and infusing myself"},{"startTime":678.48,"endTime":686.96,"body":"in those conversations. So it's good to be back "},{"startTime":678.48,"endTime":686.96,"body":"in the building in that way. You know, that kind"},{"startTime":686.96,"endTime":694.64,"body":"of observation you speak about, Jeff, you know, I "},{"startTime":686.96,"endTime":694.64,"body":"think that's it's interesting. I think some people"},{"startTime":694.64,"endTime":702.64,"body":"have that skill very refined and some people "},{"startTime":694.64,"endTime":702.64,"body":"need to work at it and I do think you can really"},{"startTime":702.64,"endTime":710.24,"body":"re like you know work on your observation skills "},{"startTime":702.64,"endTime":710.24,"body":"and I think that's actually something that nurse"},{"startTime":710.24,"endTime":716.48,"body":"educators try to teach our students all the time "},{"startTime":710.24,"endTime":716.48,"body":"right how do you like see beyond the patient's"},{"startTime":716.48,"endTime":722.0,"body":"blood pressure right how do you see beyond the "},{"startTime":716.48,"endTime":722.0,"body":"telemetry monitor that has the bells and whistles"},{"startTime":722.0,"endTime":728.24,"body":"and really look at them and look at their eyes, "},{"startTime":722.0,"endTime":728.24,"body":"their body language, their non-verbals and how"},{"startTime":728.24,"endTime":735.44,"body":"do you I think it's just a challenge though for "},{"startTime":728.24,"endTime":735.44,"body":"some of us that are very good at that skill. It"},{"startTime":735.44,"endTime":741.36,"body":"comes very naturally and then some people that it "},{"startTime":735.44,"endTime":741.36,"body":"doesn't come naturally and we also understand the"},{"startTime":741.36,"endTime":747.52,"body":"importance of developing it. So I just think in "},{"startTime":741.36,"endTime":747.52,"body":"nursing education that's something that I think"},{"startTime":747.52,"endTime":755.12,"body":"we could as a community of a profession just be "},{"startTime":747.52,"endTime":755.12,"body":"better at of teaching this skill of observation."},{"startTime":755.12,"endTime":760.72,"body":"Sure. Is it's not natural to everybody. "},{"startTime":755.12,"endTime":760.72,"body":"And it's so tightly connected to emotional"},{"startTime":760.72,"endTime":771.12,"body":"intelligence. Sure. Sure. You know, I'd also I "},{"startTime":760.72,"endTime":771.12,"body":"would also offer just generationally, you know,"},{"startTime":771.12,"endTime":779.28,"body":"there's a generation of folks who have grown up "},{"startTime":771.12,"endTime":779.28,"body":"not engaging folks, right? We have these to talk"},{"startTime":779.28,"endTime":787.92,"body":"for us, to spellcheck for us, to I was riding a "},{"startTime":779.28,"endTime":787.92,"body":"friend of mine the other day and while in his car,"},{"startTime":787.92,"endTime":792.8,"body":"he didn't even have to type the message. He just "},{"startTime":787.92,"endTime":792.8,"body":"spoke the message. Tell Dave Smith I'm going to be"},{"startTime":792.8,"endTime":798.96,"body":"late. in the car sent somebody a text message. "},{"startTime":792.8,"endTime":798.96,"body":"Right? So, there's a generation of folks who"},{"startTime":798.96,"endTime":807.28,"body":"have have grown up not having to engage and look "},{"startTime":798.96,"endTime":807.28,"body":"people in the eye and be mindful of the nonverbal."},{"startTime":807.28,"endTime":819.92,"body":"And so, it's really interesting how we do need "},{"startTime":807.28,"endTime":819.92,"body":"that. I think that's I and in fact what really"},{"startTime":819.92,"endTime":827.84,"body":"got me on this stick many years ago read a book "},{"startTime":819.92,"endTime":827.84,"body":"Blink I believe by Gladwell that spoke to about"},{"startTime":827.84,"endTime":836.56,"body":"spoke about how in an instant we have these micro "},{"startTime":827.84,"endTime":836.56,"body":"expressions. There's times where I can see there's"},{"startTime":836.56,"endTime":843.2,"body":"times where I walk into a room or walk into a "},{"startTime":836.56,"endTime":843.2,"body":"meeting or room and I see people look up to the"},{"startTime":843.2,"endTime":848.64,"body":"right like you know just the whole n like oh wow "},{"startTime":843.2,"endTime":848.64,"body":"they're I can tell they're not happy to see me"},{"startTime":848.64,"endTime":856.48,"body":"right like here he is right like wow but what's "},{"startTime":848.64,"endTime":856.48,"body":"that about? Even in the book Blink, he mentions,"},{"startTime":856.48,"endTime":863.44,"body":"Gladwell mentions how it starts with they're "},{"startTime":856.48,"endTime":863.44,"body":"interviewing couples for something and how he"},{"startTime":863.44,"endTime":870.48,"body":"could tell instantly how the couples walk into the "},{"startTime":863.44,"endTime":870.48,"body":"room which couple is not getting along very well."},{"startTime":871.6,"endTime":876.56,"body":"You know what though, Jeff? I think what you "},{"startTime":871.6,"endTime":876.56,"body":"said spoke to me because your first response"},{"startTime":876.56,"endTime":883.2,"body":"when you described this person coming into the "},{"startTime":876.56,"endTime":883.2,"body":"room and you know maybe looking up to the right"},{"startTime":884.16,"endTime":889.84,"body":"you said what's that about? You know, I think "},{"startTime":884.16,"endTime":889.84,"body":"your curiosity has always been I think you"},{"startTime":889.84,"endTime":896.32,"body":"role model that often. And I think it's that "},{"startTime":889.84,"endTime":896.32,"body":"kind of curiosity that when we see somebody"},{"startTime":896.32,"endTime":900.96,"body":"do something or say something that we're just "},{"startTime":896.32,"endTime":900.96,"body":"that's kind of puts us on our heels, you know,"},{"startTime":900.96,"endTime":905.52,"body":"digging into that a little bit and being like, "},{"startTime":900.96,"endTime":905.52,"body":"that's interesting. That's not the look I was"},{"startTime":905.52,"endTime":911.76,"body":"expecting. I don't know if I was expecting a hug "},{"startTime":905.52,"endTime":911.76,"body":"or a high five or what, but I wasn't expecting"},{"startTime":911.76,"endTime":918.16,"body":"an eye roll. So I think just being curious about "},{"startTime":911.76,"endTime":918.16,"body":"that and giving people the benefit of the doubt"},{"startTime":918.16,"endTime":925.92,"body":"can be helpful. And I just heard that kind of "},{"startTime":918.16,"endTime":925.92,"body":"resonate in what you were saying is upset about"},{"startTime":925.92,"endTime":930.48,"body":"I use that as an opportunity because my first "},{"startTime":925.92,"endTime":930.48,"body":"thought is not necessarily a negative one. My"},{"startTime":930.48,"endTime":936.8,"body":"first thought is they don't they probably don't "},{"startTime":930.48,"endTime":936.8,"body":"know me very well. So I try to see that as an"},{"startTime":936.8,"endTime":941.6,"body":"opportunity to sometimes sit right beside that "},{"startTime":936.8,"endTime":941.6,"body":"person say, \"Hey, how you doing? How's it going?\""},{"startTime":941.6,"endTime":948.0,"body":"I don't think we've met, you know, to try "},{"startTime":941.6,"endTime":948.0,"body":"to again when I think about, you know,"},{"startTime":948.0,"endTime":953.76,"body":"the barriers to inclusion when I see that reaction "},{"startTime":948.0,"endTime":953.76,"body":"sometime it let it's a reminder to me that we"},{"startTime":953.76,"endTime":960.32,"body":"don't have much relatedness and you know a lot "},{"startTime":953.76,"endTime":960.32,"body":"of times we have you know much we have much more"},{"startTime":960.32,"endTime":965.84,"body":"in common than we do different but it's really "},{"startTime":960.32,"endTime":965.84,"body":"our differences that get most of the attention."},{"startTime":966.88,"endTime":971.2,"body":"I was thinking about something very similar to "},{"startTime":966.88,"endTime":971.2,"body":"that when you were talking about the technology"},{"startTime":971.2,"endTime":976.88,"body":"and how people are have grown up on that and the "},{"startTime":971.2,"endTime":976.88,"body":"research around how when people feel disconnected"},{"startTime":976.88,"endTime":982.4,"body":"or not leaning in to others how much easier it "},{"startTime":976.88,"endTime":982.4,"body":"is to engage in some of these transgressions or"},{"startTime":982.4,"endTime":988.96,"body":"these microaggressions that people wouldn't do may "},{"startTime":982.4,"endTime":988.96,"body":"not do maybe I won't say wouldn't but might not be"},{"startTime":988.96,"endTime":994.64,"body":"inclined to do if they leaned in and knew more "},{"startTime":988.96,"endTime":994.64,"body":"about the person or understood them or connected"},{"startTime":994.64,"endTime":1000.48,"body":"I think about the studies about the road rage "},{"startTime":994.64,"endTime":1000.48,"body":"and you know the online social media comments"},{"startTime":1000.48,"endTime":1006.96,"body":"about things that are posted or typed or said or "},{"startTime":1000.48,"endTime":1006.96,"body":"done because people feel disconnected. So when"},{"startTime":1006.96,"endTime":1014.0,"body":"we lean it's easier to do that. when we lean "},{"startTime":1006.96,"endTime":1014.0,"body":"in get curious like you talk about sit down,"},{"startTime":1014.0,"endTime":1019.44,"body":"get connected with somebody, we learn a lot more "},{"startTime":1014.0,"endTime":1019.44,"body":"about the humanity and the connection and the"},{"startTime":1019.44,"endTime":1028.88,"body":"commonality that makes it I think helpful to find "},{"startTime":1019.44,"endTime":1028.88,"body":"common ground and be able to be relatable. Sure."},{"startTime":1028.88,"endTime":1035.68,"body":"I totally agree with that. I think you know when "},{"startTime":1028.88,"endTime":1035.68,"body":"I think of relatedness when we don't have that"},{"startTime":1036.32,"endTime":1042.4,"body":"there's a term sometimes folk folks in this "},{"startTime":1036.32,"endTime":1042.4,"body":"work use is you'll graduate from MSU when you"},{"startTime":1042.4,"endTime":1049.2,"body":"don't have information about folks and a lack "},{"startTime":1042.4,"endTime":1049.2,"body":"of relatedness you'll make stuff up you know"},{"startTime":1049.2,"endTime":1055.76,"body":"sometimes even in conversations you know when the "},{"startTime":1049.2,"endTime":1055.76,"body":"and our bias speaks to us sometimes instantly the"},{"startTime":1055.76,"endTime":1061.2,"body":"person that's always late the person who has to "},{"startTime":1055.76,"endTime":1061.2,"body":"leave the meeting you know, well, you hear things"},{"startTime":1061.2,"endTime":1067.28,"body":"over, they're not a team player or they're always "},{"startTime":1061.2,"endTime":1067.28,"body":"late and we make assumptions or they're lazy or,"},{"startTime":1067.28,"endTime":1073.44,"body":"you know, and I'll sometimes I call people and I'm "},{"startTime":1067.28,"endTime":1073.44,"body":"like, you just made that up, didn't you? And like,"},{"startTime":1073.44,"endTime":1077.92,"body":"you know, like what do you mean? Like, because "},{"startTime":1073.44,"endTime":1077.92,"body":"you don't know why they left. Maybe they got some"},{"startTime":1077.92,"endTime":1083.52,"body":"medication to take. Maybe they got to check on "},{"startTime":1077.92,"endTime":1083.52,"body":"their child and child care. Maybe they have a take"},{"startTime":1083.52,"endTime":1090.08,"body":"care of older adult parent. You don't know why "},{"startTime":1083.52,"endTime":1090.08,"body":"they're leaving early. You don't know why they're"},{"startTime":1090.08,"endTime":1097.04,"body":"arriving late. So don't make stuff up. Yeah. I And "},{"startTime":1090.08,"endTime":1097.04,"body":"we know that the brain is wired cognitively in a"},{"startTime":1097.04,"endTime":1101.12,"body":"way that in the absence of information, we fill in "},{"startTime":1097.04,"endTime":1101.12,"body":"our own narrative. And that narrative gets by our"},{"startTime":1101.12,"endTime":1106.96,"body":"lens, our biases, our upbringing, our experience, "},{"startTime":1101.12,"endTime":1106.96,"body":"our culture, everything. And we shape a narrative"},{"startTime":1106.96,"endTime":1115.12,"body":"in the absence of that information that can be "},{"startTime":1106.96,"endTime":1115.12,"body":"inaccurate at best and harmful at worst, I think."},{"startTime":1116.0,"endTime":1121.68,"body":"And you know, I always like to remind myself, "},{"startTime":1116.0,"endTime":1121.68,"body":"you know, this is sort of an issue of the human"},{"startTime":1121.68,"endTime":1127.52,"body":"condition, but our brains were hardwired to do "},{"startTime":1121.68,"endTime":1127.52,"body":"that really for survival. You know, if we got"},{"startTime":1127.52,"endTime":1132.72,"body":"little bits of pieces of information, we needed "},{"startTime":1127.52,"endTime":1132.72,"body":"to fill in the blanks to make a bigger picture so"},{"startTime":1132.72,"endTime":1141.36,"body":"we could respond appropriately. And I so I always "},{"startTime":1132.72,"endTime":1141.36,"body":"try to remind myself rather than getting hard on"},{"startTime":1141.36,"endTime":1148.4,"body":"myself to say, you know, you shouldn't think this "},{"startTime":1141.36,"endTime":1148.4,"body":"way or that's wrong, you know, just understanding"},{"startTime":1148.4,"endTime":1157.04,"body":"that it's leaning into this idea that just being "},{"startTime":1148.4,"endTime":1157.04,"body":"aware of it, right? And just trying to be open"},{"startTime":1157.04,"endTime":1164.48,"body":"about this idea of how our brains are hardwired "},{"startTime":1157.04,"endTime":1164.48,"body":"to function. And it's not such a bad thing,"},{"startTime":1164.48,"endTime":1174.16,"body":"it's a survival thing that we kind of just it "},{"startTime":1164.48,"endTime":1174.16,"body":"went awry, right? I mean, we're all overwhelmed"},{"startTime":1174.16,"endTime":1183.12,"body":"with stimuli, right? I'm often at the house here "},{"startTime":1174.16,"endTime":1183.12,"body":"get annoyed. Anytime I click on something, there's"},{"startTime":1183.12,"endTime":1190.0,"body":"an ad. I don't want to see an ad right now. U but "},{"startTime":1183.12,"endTime":1190.0,"body":"we're all just overloaded with with stimuli. So"},{"startTime":1190.0,"endTime":1199.36,"body":"when you see when we see and experience something "},{"startTime":1190.0,"endTime":1199.36,"body":"different, our personal and cultural information"},{"startTime":1199.36,"endTime":1205.68,"body":"that we already have tells us immediately what "},{"startTime":1199.36,"endTime":1205.68,"body":"we think it is. And it's easier to take that"},{"startTime":1205.68,"endTime":1211.12,"body":"shortcut rather than really kind of spend some "},{"startTime":1205.68,"endTime":1211.12,"body":"time and get to know the person, right? So, if"},{"startTime":1211.12,"endTime":1221.44,"body":"you see somebody in a in a hoodie or if you I use "},{"startTime":1211.12,"endTime":1221.44,"body":"my transcript sometimes as a prop. My transcript"},{"startTime":1221.44,"endTime":1228.24,"body":"at one time I was academically dismissed and "},{"startTime":1221.44,"endTime":1228.24,"body":"my GPA was really low. So, sometimes I'll show"},{"startTime":1228.24,"endTime":1234.16,"body":"these pictures doesn't have my name on it of "},{"startTime":1228.24,"endTime":1234.16,"body":"the transcript and the GPA. So I show a series"},{"startTime":1234.16,"endTime":1239.44,"body":"of pictures and I ask people write down your first "},{"startTime":1234.16,"endTime":1239.44,"body":"thought and when they see academically dismissed"},{"startTime":1239.44,"endTime":1245.76,"body":"and see the GPA and I collect these index cards "},{"startTime":1239.44,"endTime":1245.76,"body":"later and I read what some of the commentary and"},{"startTime":1245.76,"endTime":1254.64,"body":"the commentary is like lazy unmotivated but then "},{"startTime":1245.76,"endTime":1254.64,"body":"later I said that's my transcript, right? So, and"},{"startTime":1254.64,"endTime":1261.84,"body":"I was never any of those things. But when you see "},{"startTime":1254.64,"endTime":1261.84,"body":"that, we our personal and cultural history tells"},{"startTime":1261.84,"endTime":1268.96,"body":"us what that is when you see it. And we all do. "},{"startTime":1261.84,"endTime":1268.96,"body":"I do it as well, you know. I'm some people think"},{"startTime":1268.96,"endTime":1275.28,"body":"I don't do this. I don't misspeak. I don't Hey, I "},{"startTime":1268.96,"endTime":1275.28,"body":"don't always get it right, you know. So, we all do"},{"startTime":1275.28,"endTime":1282.24,"body":"that. But we are wired like that. Soon as you see "},{"startTime":1275.28,"endTime":1282.24,"body":"it, your personal culture tells you what it is."},{"startTime":1285.76,"endTime":1291.04,"body":"So, we were having a little bit of a an informal "},{"startTime":1285.76,"endTime":1291.04,"body":"conversation and these themes and topics came up"},{"startTime":1291.04,"endTime":1297.2,"body":"about bias and self-awareness and I wanted "},{"startTime":1291.04,"endTime":1297.2,"body":"to build on that and transition that into"},{"startTime":1297.2,"endTime":1304.96,"body":"the academic setting and tap into your expertise "},{"startTime":1297.2,"endTime":1304.96,"body":"and your perspective from a DEI perspective which"},{"startTime":1304.96,"endTime":1311.12,"body":"would be you know there's been so much focus and "},{"startTime":1304.96,"endTime":1311.12,"body":"emphasis on not only at college and programmatic"},{"startTime":1311.12,"endTime":1319.2,"body":"levels but within in classrooms to really evaluate "},{"startTime":1311.12,"endTime":1319.2,"body":"fostering inclusivity and focusing on equity. And"},{"startTime":1319.2,"endTime":1322.32,"body":"I think at the same time, we still have a lot "},{"startTime":1319.2,"endTime":1322.32,"body":"of blind spots. We still have a lot of things"},{"startTime":1322.32,"endTime":1327.6,"body":"that we're not aware of that fall under our "},{"startTime":1322.32,"endTime":1327.6,"body":"subconscious. And so I'm curious to hear from"},{"startTime":1327.6,"endTime":1333.04,"body":"your perspective perhaps maybe at multiple "},{"startTime":1327.6,"endTime":1333.04,"body":"levels, maybe at a college or school level,"},{"startTime":1333.04,"endTime":1338.8,"body":"programmatic level, even in our classrooms. "},{"startTime":1333.04,"endTime":1338.8,"body":"What are some of the things that you see as"},{"startTime":1338.8,"endTime":1343.6,"body":"being things that are in our blind spots or "},{"startTime":1338.8,"endTime":1343.6,"body":"we're unaware of that we really need to shift"},{"startTime":1343.6,"endTime":1350.4,"body":"our focus on and think about in order to really "},{"startTime":1343.6,"endTime":1350.4,"body":"foster inclusivity and equity in the spaces that"},{"startTime":1350.4,"endTime":1358.16,"body":"we coexist and teach and work in? Well, that's a "},{"startTime":1350.4,"endTime":1358.16,"body":"great question. A couple things just jump out jump"},{"startTime":1358.16,"endTime":1367.84,"body":"out to me. One is I'm really fond of a phrase that "},{"startTime":1358.16,"endTime":1367.84,"body":"everything speaks. Everything speaks. So we need"},{"startTime":1367.84,"endTime":1376.48,"body":"to be mindful of when I think of just blind spots "},{"startTime":1367.84,"endTime":1376.48,"body":"the books materials that we use case studies that"},{"startTime":1376.48,"endTime":1385.52,"body":"we use that that certain groups aren't depicted "},{"startTime":1376.48,"endTime":1385.52,"body":"in a negative light all the time. We need to be"},{"startTime":1385.52,"endTime":1392.24,"body":"aware of in our case studies and textbooks "},{"startTime":1385.52,"endTime":1392.24,"body":"of the stereotypes that that have existed"},{"startTime":1392.24,"endTime":1403.68,"body":"for generations. The other really important thing "},{"startTime":1392.24,"endTime":1403.68,"body":"is mindful that the entire classroom environment."},{"startTime":1403.68,"endTime":1409.76,"body":"It's more than just being in class, right? "},{"startTime":1403.68,"endTime":1409.76,"body":"It's the pictures in the hallways. It's the"},{"startTime":1409.76,"endTime":1416.16,"body":"names of the buildings. It's the names of the "},{"startTime":1409.76,"endTime":1416.16,"body":"conference rooms. Everything speaks in a way"},{"startTime":1416.16,"endTime":1423.52,"body":"that we have to be mindful that those images, "},{"startTime":1416.16,"endTime":1423.52,"body":"those artifacts speak to the entire audience."},{"startTime":1424.08,"endTime":1430.56,"body":"and create this sense of whether or not you "},{"startTime":1424.08,"endTime":1430.56,"body":"belong, you have this sense of belonging. So,"},{"startTime":1430.56,"endTime":1439.36,"body":"it's all those things. You know, even when I think "},{"startTime":1430.56,"endTime":1439.36,"body":"of just inclusive pedagogy, it's intentional."},{"startTime":1439.36,"endTime":1444.24,"body":"We have to be intentional on understanding the "},{"startTime":1439.36,"endTime":1444.24,"body":"different learning styles, different communication"},{"startTime":1444.24,"endTime":1452.0,"body":"styles. We don't all learn the same way. We don't "},{"startTime":1444.24,"endTime":1452.0,"body":"all communicate the same way and really try to"},{"startTime":1452.0,"endTime":1461.44,"body":"institute smaller groups, smaller working groups, "},{"startTime":1452.0,"endTime":1461.44,"body":"peer mentoring, peer coaching. So it's all those"},{"startTime":1461.44,"endTime":1469.76,"body":"things. I think even organizationally I think "},{"startTime":1461.44,"endTime":1469.76,"body":"when I just think of our blind spot, we have to"},{"startTime":1469.76,"endTime":1480.4,"body":"be mindful of who our students encounter. We have "},{"startTime":1469.76,"endTime":1480.4,"body":"a number of instances where students encounter"},{"startTime":1480.4,"endTime":1488.88,"body":"folks who are not our employees but to the "},{"startTime":1480.4,"endTime":1488.88,"body":"students they feel like they're our employees."},{"startTime":1488.88,"endTime":1496.24,"body":"You know our clinical partners, preceptors and "},{"startTime":1488.88,"endTime":1496.24,"body":"sometime we got to make sure that those folks are"},{"startTime":1496.96,"endTime":1505.12,"body":"uphold our core values as well because they really "},{"startTime":1496.96,"endTime":1505.12,"body":"represent a key component to the educational"},{"startTime":1505.12,"endTime":1510.72,"body":"experience. So it's those things I think we got "},{"startTime":1505.12,"endTime":1510.72,"body":"to be mindful of. Another thing I think is a"},{"startTime":1510.72,"endTime":1516.24,"body":"blind spot just organizationally is really trying "},{"startTime":1510.72,"endTime":1516.24,"body":"to be more intentional on growing and developing"},{"startTime":1516.24,"endTime":1524.64,"body":"our part-time and adjunct folks including them "},{"startTime":1516.24,"endTime":1524.64,"body":"like like any other employee and oftentimes are"},{"startTime":1524.64,"endTime":1531.6,"body":"your part-time folks. Adjuncts are sometimes "},{"startTime":1524.64,"endTime":1531.6,"body":"an afterthought. And I think we could a blind"},{"startTime":1531.6,"endTime":1537.04,"body":"spot just I think for us organizationally when I "},{"startTime":1531.6,"endTime":1537.04,"body":"think about how important it is to diversify the"},{"startTime":1537.04,"endTime":1543.76,"body":"faculty is really looking at who we already have "},{"startTime":1537.04,"endTime":1543.76,"body":"and who we're already familiar with and growing"},{"startTime":1543.76,"endTime":1550.0,"body":"and developing them in a way to come on board "},{"startTime":1543.76,"endTime":1550.0,"body":"full-time. So those are some things I think"},{"startTime":1550.64,"endTime":1559.6,"body":"are some immediate blind spots that kind of jump "},{"startTime":1550.64,"endTime":1559.6,"body":"out at me. You know, one thing we know from the"},{"startTime":1559.6,"endTime":1567.12,"body":"evidence is that it's really hard for us to get "},{"startTime":1559.6,"endTime":1567.12,"body":"our own blind spots into focus and we usually"},{"startTime":1567.12,"endTime":1574.32,"body":"need the help of somebody else to hopefully "},{"startTime":1567.12,"endTime":1574.32,"body":"kindly bring our what's in our blind spot"},{"startTime":1574.32,"endTime":1580.88,"body":"to our forefront. So, I think this conversation, "},{"startTime":1574.32,"endTime":1580.88,"body":"right, is one way just talking about these blind"},{"startTime":1580.88,"endTime":1589.44,"body":"spots. I'm wondering though for the teacher in the "},{"startTime":1580.88,"endTime":1589.44,"body":"seat at the desk who's writing this case study,"},{"startTime":1589.44,"endTime":1593.68,"body":"who's writing these test questions, you "},{"startTime":1589.44,"endTime":1593.68,"body":"know, what are some things that we can"},{"startTime":1593.68,"endTime":1604.64,"body":"do for the faculty that are doing this work and "},{"startTime":1593.68,"endTime":1604.64,"body":"how can that kind of level of of content clear,"},{"startTime":1604.64,"endTime":1611.84,"body":"you know, how can we get that out of our blind "},{"startTime":1604.64,"endTime":1611.84,"body":"spot and clear of of bias? I think one of the"},{"startTime":1611.84,"endTime":1620.72,"body":"things I think you could do is one. One we have to "},{"startTime":1611.84,"endTime":1620.72,"body":"accept that we don't know everything right so it"},{"startTime":1620.72,"endTime":1626.64,"body":"I think the first step is it really starts with "},{"startTime":1620.72,"endTime":1626.64,"body":"us ourselves and recognizing that it's okay to"},{"startTime":1626.64,"endTime":1631.28,"body":"be vulnerable I believe it's Brene Brown that "},{"startTime":1626.64,"endTime":1631.28,"body":"speaks to that it's okay to be vulnerable and"},{"startTime":1631.28,"endTime":1637.12,"body":"not not have all the answers and know everything. "},{"startTime":1631.28,"endTime":1637.12,"body":"The other thing I think that's important to this"},{"startTime":1637.12,"endTime":1643.68,"body":"work is at least from my perspectives is for folks "},{"startTime":1637.12,"endTime":1643.68,"body":"not to feel alone. You don't have you don't have"},{"startTime":1643.68,"endTime":1651.52,"body":"to figure this out by yourself. So it's okay to "},{"startTime":1643.68,"endTime":1651.52,"body":"not know and to say that you don't know. I think"},{"startTime":1651.52,"endTime":1658.64,"body":"even as faculty I think we could partner with "},{"startTime":1651.52,"endTime":1658.64,"body":"each other. You know I think what I think of"},{"startTime":1658.64,"endTime":1665.28,"body":"the generation when I first started teaching there "},{"startTime":1658.64,"endTime":1665.28,"body":"was a lot of classroom observations and you know,"},{"startTime":1665.28,"endTime":1669.84,"body":"feedback doesn't always have to be threatening. "},{"startTime":1665.28,"endTime":1669.84,"body":"You know, you can use feedback for growth,"},{"startTime":1669.84,"endTime":1676.96,"body":"for development. So, it's really partnering. "},{"startTime":1669.84,"endTime":1676.96,"body":"I think it's okay to even though I think a"},{"startTime":1676.96,"endTime":1682.72,"body":"course class is being captured on on, you know, "},{"startTime":1676.96,"endTime":1682.72,"body":"class captures and videos, it's okay to look at"},{"startTime":1682.72,"endTime":1689.04,"body":"yourself, not necessarily for the content, but "},{"startTime":1682.72,"endTime":1689.04,"body":"to look at yourself and be critical of yourself"},{"startTime":1689.04,"endTime":1699.68,"body":"and give yourself feedback and partner with other "},{"startTime":1689.04,"endTime":1699.68,"body":"faculty. You know even just solicit feedback. This"},{"startTime":1699.68,"endTime":1706.4,"body":"all starts to me and you mentioned it earlier just "},{"startTime":1699.68,"endTime":1706.4,"body":"self we talked about this earlier self-awareness"},{"startTime":1706.4,"endTime":1715.04,"body":"is our greatest tool is our greatest tool and "},{"startTime":1706.4,"endTime":1715.04,"body":"once we're more self-aware then we can really"},{"startTime":1715.04,"endTime":1721.92,"body":"teach others to be more aware so that's what "},{"startTime":1715.04,"endTime":1721.92,"body":"I would offer but it all starts with to me a"},{"startTime":1721.92,"endTime":1729.68,"body":"certain level of humility and being vulnerable "},{"startTime":1721.92,"endTime":1729.68,"body":"and acknowledging I don't know everything. And"},{"startTime":1729.68,"endTime":1737.04,"body":"sometimes that's difficult for highly educated "},{"startTime":1729.68,"endTime":1737.04,"body":"folks to admit. You know, I don't know. I haven't"},{"startTime":1737.04,"endTime":1745.92,"body":"figured that out. I need some help. Sometimes "},{"startTime":1737.04,"endTime":1745.92,"body":"that's really hard for folks. So, anyone who has"},{"startTime":1745.92,"endTime":1751.28,"body":"joined Michelle and I on this podcast before knows "},{"startTime":1745.92,"endTime":1751.28,"body":"that we have a tendency not to be able to keep our"},{"startTime":1751.28,"endTime":1757.92,"body":"conversations just to the 15 or 20 minutes that we "},{"startTime":1751.28,"endTime":1757.92,"body":"ideally want to keep it at. There is so much good"},{"startTime":1757.92,"endTime":1763.6,"body":"things to unpack and talk about and that is the "},{"startTime":1757.92,"endTime":1763.6,"body":"case with our conversation with Dr. Jeff Ash. So,"},{"startTime":1763.6,"endTime":1767.6,"body":"we're going to hit the pause button. We will "},{"startTime":1763.6,"endTime":1767.6,"body":"be back. We hope you will join us too. We'll"},{"startTime":1767.6,"endTime":1773.68,"body":"pick up with our conversation with Dr. Ash on "},{"startTime":1767.6,"endTime":1773.68,"body":"considering DEI initiatives within clinical and"},{"startTime":1773.68,"endTime":1780.56,"body":"academic settings and how we bridge the gap. "},{"startTime":1773.68,"endTime":1780.56,"body":"Thank you for joining us on this episode of"},{"startTime":1780.56,"endTime":1786.32,"body":"NLN Nursing EDge Unscripted Surface. We hope you "},{"startTime":1780.56,"endTime":1786.32,"body":"join us next time. Until then, remember, whether"},{"startTime":1786.32,"endTime":1807.68,"body":"your water is calm or choppy, stay connected, get "},{"startTime":1786.32,"endTime":1807.68,"body":"vulnerable, and dare to go beneath the surface."}]}