{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.66,"endTime":4.68,"body":"[Music]"},{"startTime":36.24,"endTime":41.76,"body":"Welcome to this episode of the NLN podcast Nursing "},{"startTime":36.24,"endTime":41.76,"body":"EDge Unscripted the Surface track and thank you  "},{"startTime":41.76,"endTime":47.16,"body":"for joining us. This episode is entitled, \"Getting "},{"startTime":41.76,"endTime":47.16,"body":"the Pulse on Practice: Connecting Clinical to the  "},{"startTime":47.16,"endTime":53.76,"body":"Classroom,\" and to help us today we have a very "},{"startTime":47.16,"endTime":53.76,"body":"special guest, Kate Boss. Kate Boss is a Senior  "},{"startTime":53.76,"endTime":60.06,"body":"Clinical Nurse I at the University of Maryland "},{"startTime":53.76,"endTime":60.06,"body":"Medical Center's R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma  "},{"startTime":60.06,"endTime":66.42,"body":"Center on the acute care floor also known as "},{"startTime":60.06,"endTime":66.42,"body":"Four STOP. Kate specializes in precepting new  "},{"startTime":66.42,"endTime":72.24,"body":"graduate nurses to the clinical nurse role. Kate "},{"startTime":66.42,"endTime":72.24,"body":"continues to mentor new team members as they  "},{"startTime":72.24,"endTime":78.6,"body":"advance through the professional advancement model. "},{"startTime":72.24,"endTime":78.6,"body":"Kate also acts as a resource to implement clinical  "},{"startTime":78.6,"endTime":84.48,"body":"evidence-based practice initiatives that ensure "},{"startTime":78.6,"endTime":84.48,"body":"the unit is continuing to address practice gaps.  "},{"startTime":85.2,"endTime":91.68,"body":"Rachel and I especially want to welcome Kate to "},{"startTime":85.2,"endTime":91.68,"body":"celebrate our own special mentorship relationships  "},{"startTime":91.68,"endTime":98.16,"body":"with her. Kate began her professional nursing "},{"startTime":91.68,"endTime":98.16,"body":"career path as Rachel's student in the Clinical  "},{"startTime":98.16,"endTime":104.04,"body":"Nurse Leader Program at University of Maryland "},{"startTime":98.16,"endTime":104.04,"body":"School of Nursing. Rachel continues to mentor  "},{"startTime":104.04,"endTime":109.5,"body":"Kate in various aspects of her professional "},{"startTime":104.04,"endTime":109.5,"body":"development. I had the fortunate opportunity to  "},{"startTime":109.5,"endTime":115.38,"body":"be mentored by Kate when I began teaching clinical "},{"startTime":109.5,"endTime":115.38,"body":"to medical-surgical students on her clinical unit. "},{"startTime":116.4,"endTime":121.98,"body":"Kate served as a welcoming and informative mentor "},{"startTime":116.4,"endTime":121.98,"body":"to me as I had to work to familiarize myself  "},{"startTime":121.98,"endTime":129.36,"body":"with the unit policies, culture, and patient care "},{"startTime":121.98,"endTime":129.36,"body":"community. Welcome Kate. Thank you for joining us.  "},{"startTime":130.08,"endTime":136.8,"body":"Anytime. I'm excited. Thanks for having me. It's "},{"startTime":130.08,"endTime":136.8,"body":"great to have you here, Kate. To get us started how  "},{"startTime":136.8,"endTime":142.92,"body":"about you share a little bit about where you are "},{"startTime":136.8,"endTime":142.92,"body":"at University of Maryland Medical Center, what you  "},{"startTime":142.92,"endTime":151.14,"body":"do, and a little bit about how your role intersects "},{"startTime":142.92,"endTime":151.14,"body":"with education? Yeah so I'm at Maryland at the  "},{"startTime":151.14,"endTime":157.2,"body":"University of Maryland Medical Center at the more "},{"startTime":151.14,"endTime":157.2,"body":"specifically the shock trauma center there and I  "},{"startTime":157.2,"endTime":165.36,"body":"work on their acute care floor and I've been a "},{"startTime":157.2,"endTime":165.36,"body":"clinical nurse there on and off for about seven  "},{"startTime":165.36,"endTime":173.1,"body":"years now, which seems crazy but it kind of flew by. "},{"startTime":165.36,"endTime":173.1,"body":"I'm a senior clinical nurse  "},{"startTime":173.1,"endTime":180.3,"body":"one, just this is our advancement model there and "},{"startTime":173.1,"endTime":180.3,"body":"so my focus with that is more education based  "},{"startTime":180.9,"endTime":188.46,"body":"instead of like more admin stuff and I focused "},{"startTime":180.9,"endTime":188.46,"body":"more on precepting new graduate nurses and working  "},{"startTime":188.46,"endTime":196.8,"body":"with some of the student students with instructors "},{"startTime":188.46,"endTime":196.8,"body":"as well helping to coordinate their calendar and  "},{"startTime":196.8,"endTime":202.86,"body":"things like that so that's kind of how I "},{"startTime":196.8,"endTime":202.86,"body":"intersect with education and the academia world.  "},{"startTime":203.94,"endTime":211.5,"body":"I'll just share Kate that I "},{"startTime":203.94,"endTime":211.5,"body":"have vivid memories of taking students to  "},{"startTime":212.7,"endTime":218.76,"body":"four STOP right the shock trauma acute care "},{"startTime":212.7,"endTime":218.76,"body":"unit and you were always this breath of fresh  "},{"startTime":218.76,"endTime":226.2,"body":"air. I would see you like, thank goodness Kate's "},{"startTime":218.76,"endTime":226.2,"body":"here because I just felt as  "},{"startTime":226.2,"endTime":232.32,"body":"an instructor I was in good hands with you there "},{"startTime":226.2,"endTime":232.32,"body":"because I felt like you understood the role of the  "},{"startTime":232.32,"endTime":240.66,"body":"nurse. You also, I felt like, understood my role and I felt  "},{"startTime":240.66,"endTime":247.92,"body":"like you were always ready to give a hand or help "},{"startTime":240.66,"endTime":247.92,"body":"me navigate the unit and provide the resources  "},{"startTime":247.92,"endTime":254.46,"body":"I needed to provide good clinical teaching, "},{"startTime":247.92,"endTime":254.46,"body":"I say that because it's...  "},{"startTime":255.3,"endTime":262.26,"body":"I shouldn't take it for "},{"startTime":255.3,"endTime":262.26,"body":"granted because that's not how every unit and not  "},{"startTime":262.26,"endTime":267.24,"body":"certainly not how every nurse receives clinical "},{"startTime":262.26,"endTime":267.24,"body":"education. Sometimes there's a disconnect between  "},{"startTime":268.14,"endTime":276.06,"body":"what the unit either the unit nurses or the "},{"startTime":268.14,"endTime":276.06,"body":"unit culture sort of expects of instructors  "},{"startTime":276.06,"endTime":282.24,"body":"and students and sometimes it takes a lot "},{"startTime":276.06,"endTime":282.24,"body":"for the instructor to try to navigate that and  "},{"startTime":282.24,"endTime":287.28,"body":"and make things, help the students have a "},{"startTime":282.24,"endTime":287.28,"body":"good experience and help the nurses understand  "},{"startTime":287.28,"endTime":293.16,"body":"we can help and we are here to help and"},{"startTime":287.28,"endTime":293.16,"body":"to provide patient care but there's really going  "},{"startTime":293.16,"endTime":300.24,"body":"to be a balance between balancing the learning "},{"startTime":293.16,"endTime":300.24,"body":"and the work. I never had to really do that  "},{"startTime":300.24,"endTime":306.42,"body":"with you because you were just so...I felt like you "},{"startTime":300.24,"endTime":306.42,"body":"had a very good and clear understanding of what  "},{"startTime":306.42,"endTime":314.94,"body":"the roles are and that was very helpful to me. Oh "},{"startTime":306.42,"endTime":314.94,"body":"thank you. That's nice to hear. I think at one point  "},{"startTime":314.94,"endTime":320.94,"body":"after I graduated nursing school and started "},{"startTime":314.94,"endTime":320.94,"body":"my years as a nurse I started doing clinical  "},{"startTime":320.94,"endTime":325.8,"body":"education as well and was a clinical instructor "},{"startTime":320.94,"endTime":325.8,"body":"and I do remember that feeling of going on to a  "},{"startTime":325.8,"endTime":330.54,"body":"unit where you've never been there. You "},{"startTime":325.8,"endTime":330.54,"body":"don't know the staff. You've got your patient  "},{"startTime":330.54,"endTime":334.86,"body":"population and you just kind of feel anxious and "},{"startTime":330.54,"endTime":334.86,"body":"you're like how can I teach these students,  "},{"startTime":334.86,"endTime":340.44,"body":"how can I, you know I don't even know where the "},{"startTime":334.86,"endTime":340.44,"body":"chucks are. I don't even know where the  "},{"startTime":340.44,"endTime":344.64,"body":"supplies are. Do they use chucks? Are we allowed to "},{"startTime":340.44,"endTime":344.64,"body":"do that? Do they use bed baskets? Could I get  "},{"startTime":344.64,"endTime":349.5,"body":"the patient out of bed? And so I remember feeling "},{"startTime":344.64,"endTime":349.5,"body":"all of those fears and thinking like oh maybe  "},{"startTime":349.5,"endTime":355.02,"body":"I'm failing these students because I don't know "},{"startTime":349.5,"endTime":355.02,"body":"the unit and the culture and so I think I just  "},{"startTime":355.02,"endTime":360.0,"body":"kind of checked that with me as a clinical nurse "},{"startTime":355.02,"endTime":360.0,"body":"and knowing that these instructors are coming  "},{"startTime":360.0,"endTime":366.54,"body":"in and they're just like the rest of us and just "},{"startTime":360.0,"endTime":366.54,"body":"want to make good nurses."},{"startTime":369.54,"endTime":375.48,"body":"Kate, I'm glad you brought up about this "},{"startTime":369.54,"endTime":375.48,"body":"transition to being a clinical instructor  "},{"startTime":375.48,"endTime":378.9,"body":"because I remember us having conversations "},{"startTime":375.48,"endTime":378.9,"body":"early on right when you were thinking about  "},{"startTime":378.9,"endTime":384.06,"body":"and starting to transition and I think it might "},{"startTime":378.9,"endTime":384.06,"body":"be really helpful to hear your perspective on  "},{"startTime":384.06,"endTime":391.74,"body":"what that experience was like and how faculty,"},{"startTime":384.06,"endTime":391.74,"body":"full-time faculty who support clinical instructors  "},{"startTime":391.74,"endTime":396.18,"body":"how they can help support them and make that "},{"startTime":391.74,"endTime":396.18,"body":"transition easier because it is not an easy one.  "},{"startTime":397.08,"endTime":402.18,"body":"You've alluded to just some of just the logistical "},{"startTime":397.08,"endTime":402.18,"body":"aspects but there's a ton more to transitioning  "},{"startTime":402.18,"endTime":406.5,"body":"into that role. I'm just curious to hear "},{"startTime":402.18,"endTime":406.5,"body":"your thoughts on what that transition was  "},{"startTime":406.5,"endTime":412.44,"body":"like for you and how in academia can we make "},{"startTime":406.5,"endTime":412.44,"body":"it better for our clinical faculty who take on  "},{"startTime":412.44,"endTime":417.54,"body":"these clinical instructor roles. You mean when "},{"startTime":412.44,"endTime":417.54,"body":"you and Dr. Davenport convinced me to finally  "},{"startTime":417.54,"endTime":425.22,"body":"do it? Yes! I'm gonna say convinced or like forced "},{"startTime":417.54,"endTime":425.22,"body":"because I could see that happening too. It made it  "},{"startTime":425.22,"endTime":431.4,"body":"makes a very persuasive conversations. There was "},{"startTime":425.22,"endTime":431.4,"body":"some of the Jedi mind tricks in there for sure.  "},{"startTime":432.3,"endTime":435.84,"body":"I think they knew it was something "},{"startTime":432.3,"endTime":435.84,"body":"that I was interested in and I wanted to do  "},{"startTime":435.84,"endTime":439.26,"body":"so it wasn't, I don't think that "},{"startTime":435.84,"endTime":439.26,"body":"they had to pull my arm too hard  "},{"startTime":439.26,"endTime":446.22,"body":"from what I remember and I really enjoyed it when "},{"startTime":439.26,"endTime":446.22,"body":"I was doing it. I hope to one day go back to it  "},{"startTime":446.22,"endTime":451.92,"body":"a little bit more full time because I do think "},{"startTime":446.22,"endTime":451.92,"body":"that that is something that helps bridge the gap  "},{"startTime":451.92,"endTime":456.78,"body":"between clinical practice and education is "},{"startTime":451.92,"endTime":456.78,"body":"a strong clinical instructor, somebody that  "},{"startTime":456.78,"endTime":461.82,"body":"can kind of help you see what you're learning in "},{"startTime":456.78,"endTime":461.82,"body":"the classroom and put it into practice.  "},{"startTime":463.38,"endTime":468.66,"body":"I guess how can "},{"startTime":463.38,"endTime":468.66,"body":"clinical or how can faculty help  "},{"startTime":469.86,"endTime":474.84,"body":"do that is I think, I mean exactly what you "},{"startTime":469.86,"endTime":474.84,"body":"did. Just support you like should like kind of  "},{"startTime":474.84,"endTime":480.6,"body":"show you that you do know more than you think. I "},{"startTime":474.84,"endTime":480.6,"body":"was relatively a new grad, but you're  "},{"startTime":480.6,"endTime":483.54,"body":"like no, no, you know what you're doing. You know "},{"startTime":480.6,"endTime":483.54,"body":"what you're doing and just continuing to give  "},{"startTime":483.54,"endTime":488.76,"body":"me this confidence that I did not think I had "},{"startTime":483.54,"endTime":488.76,"body":"and then going into that first day, you're like,  "},{"startTime":488.76,"endTime":493.14,"body":"are they gonna know that I don't know what I'm "},{"startTime":488.76,"endTime":493.14,"body":"doing? There's something you taught me. You  "},{"startTime":493.14,"endTime":497.34,"body":"were like, you don't have to know everything. You "},{"startTime":493.14,"endTime":497.34,"body":"just have to say that's a great question. I'll  "},{"startTime":497.34,"endTime":501.36,"body":"get back to you and you do. And then you go back "},{"startTime":497.34,"endTime":501.36,"body":"and as long as you get back to them they're gonna  "},{"startTime":501.36,"endTime":506.58,"body":"understand that you can't ever know"},{"startTime":501.36,"endTime":506.58,"body":"everything in nursing. It's impossible.  "},{"startTime":508.08,"endTime":515.22,"body":"Just continuing to find the "},{"startTime":508.08,"endTime":515.22,"body":"students that promote education and want  "},{"startTime":515.22,"endTime":522.84,"body":"to progress the field of nursing and kind of"},{"startTime":515.22,"endTime":522.84,"body":"target them and work with them. I  "},{"startTime":522.84,"endTime":527.46,"body":"think you guys got me into the guided "},{"startTime":522.84,"endTime":527.46,"body":"study sessions while I was a student and into  "},{"startTime":527.46,"endTime":533.04,"body":"that tutoring role and into the education world a "},{"startTime":527.46,"endTime":533.04,"body":"little bit earlier and so it was kind of ingrained  "},{"startTime":533.04,"endTime":537.12,"body":"that I was going to start to do education stuff "},{"startTime":533.04,"endTime":537.12,"body":"once I kind of got my feet wet in nursing.  "},{"startTime":538.98,"endTime":546.36,"body":"You know, you're saying something really "},{"startTime":538.98,"endTime":546.36,"body":"important Kate, which is in my mind you got into  "},{"startTime":546.36,"endTime":554.64,"body":"an education track early. You were still a student "},{"startTime":546.36,"endTime":554.64,"body":"and you were invited and encouraged to do take  "},{"startTime":554.64,"endTime":563.04,"body":"on that educator role within your student capacity. "},{"startTime":554.64,"endTime":563.04,"body":"I think with tutoring and peer  "},{"startTime":563.04,"endTime":568.86,"body":"support and I think that's so important because I "},{"startTime":563.04,"endTime":568.86,"body":"think right now nursing education is maybe already  "},{"startTime":568.86,"endTime":577.08,"body":"in or heading for a pretty big crisis with "},{"startTime":568.86,"endTime":577.08,"body":"regard to recruiting new nurse educators and  "},{"startTime":577.08,"endTime":584.94,"body":"retaining new nurse educators in the field. It's "},{"startTime":577.08,"endTime":584.94,"body":"not always been known, I don't think, as a really  "},{"startTime":586.26,"endTime":592.56,"body":"something that I think nurses want to do "},{"startTime":586.26,"endTime":592.56,"body":"and I think we need to create a narrative that  "},{"startTime":592.56,"endTime":598.02,"body":"helps people understand that this is a way to "},{"startTime":592.56,"endTime":598.02,"body":"give to the profession and to inform the next  "},{"startTime":598.02,"endTime":604.98,"body":"generation of nurses and it's a way to impact "},{"startTime":598.02,"endTime":604.98,"body":"patient care. I think that early step is really  "},{"startTime":604.98,"endTime":610.56,"body":"important that you just identified and I don't "},{"startTime":604.98,"endTime":610.56,"body":"I don't see that happening a whole lot. I mean, do  "},{"startTime":610.56,"endTime":615.12,"body":"you Rachel? No, you know I'm just sitting here "},{"startTime":610.56,"endTime":615.12,"body":"thinking, what's running for me is it's this  "},{"startTime":615.12,"endTime":619.08,"body":"is really speaking to the importance of just "},{"startTime":615.12,"endTime":619.08,"body":"getting to know your students, right. So I was  "},{"startTime":619.08,"endTime":623.04,"body":"really fortunate I knew Kate well as a student "},{"startTime":619.08,"endTime":623.04,"body":"when she was a student and other students and  "},{"startTime":623.04,"endTime":628.08,"body":"and I think about how there's students out there "},{"startTime":623.04,"endTime":628.08,"body":"that we may not know really well and we don't know  "},{"startTime":628.08,"endTime":632.7,"body":"their strengths and be able to connect them "},{"startTime":628.08,"endTime":632.7,"body":"in the tracks that really help develop them  "},{"startTime":634.08,"endTime":637.68,"body":"and I think that this is going to be "},{"startTime":634.08,"endTime":637.68,"body":"really important in thinking about how do  "},{"startTime":637.68,"endTime":642.0,"body":"we mentor the next generation of educators "},{"startTime":637.68,"endTime":642.0,"body":"whether they're on the side of academics  "},{"startTime":642.0,"endTime":646.74,"body":"or on the sign of clinical practice. "},{"startTime":642.0,"endTime":646.74,"body":"There's mentoring that can start"},{"startTime":647.82,"endTime":653.76,"body":"early on and I think that that can help shape, I "},{"startTime":647.82,"endTime":653.76,"body":"know that was done for me I have a mentor who I  "},{"startTime":653.76,"endTime":660.3,"body":"attribute being in education because that mentor "},{"startTime":653.76,"endTime":660.3,"body":"reached out before I even saw myself as ready and  "},{"startTime":660.3,"endTime":665.46,"body":"she saw me as ready and she believed in me and she "},{"startTime":660.3,"endTime":665.46,"body":"helped kind of sort of take me under her wing and  "},{"startTime":665.46,"endTime":671.22,"body":"gave me that support when I was really in the "},{"startTime":665.46,"endTime":671.22,"body":"thick of imposter syndrome, which is Kate, kind  "},{"startTime":671.22,"endTime":674.4,"body":"of what you're alluding to. Like what are "},{"startTime":671.22,"endTime":674.4,"body":"they gonna figure out I don't know what I'm doing?  "},{"startTime":675.66,"endTime":680.1,"body":"We need to be doing more of that "},{"startTime":675.66,"endTime":680.1,"body":"in education and on the side  "},{"startTime":680.1,"endTime":685.68,"body":"of academia, academic-based education "},{"startTime":680.1,"endTime":685.68,"body":"and clinical practice-based education I think."},{"startTime":687.72,"endTime":695.04,"body":"And how you know, I think what I came up "},{"startTime":687.72,"endTime":695.04,"body":"against, is where you and I both taught Rachel  "},{"startTime":695.82,"endTime":702.36,"body":"in a larger school of nursing our classes "},{"startTime":695.82,"endTime":702.36,"body":"were huge. So I think it was hard.  "},{"startTime":703.98,"endTime":709.08,"body":"I think a lot of people can be up against that "},{"startTime":703.98,"endTime":709.08,"body":"challenge, number one because of just sheer volume.  "},{"startTime":709.08,"endTime":716.22,"body":"The other thing I think could challenge faculty is "},{"startTime":709.08,"endTime":716.22,"body":"just knowing that they can initiate this question  "},{"startTime":716.22,"endTime":721.26,"body":"of like, what is your two-year plan, three year "},{"startTime":716.22,"endTime":721.26,"body":"plan, five year plan? Like sure, you're  "},{"startTime":721.26,"endTime":727.14,"body":"butt's in the seat right now you're a student but "},{"startTime":721.26,"endTime":727.14,"body":"what do you want to do in a few years time and  "},{"startTime":727.14,"endTime":731.82,"body":"helping them to look ahead a little bit."},{"startTime":727.14,"endTime":731.82,"body":"I've never even done that really intentionally  "},{"startTime":733.02,"endTime":737.4,"body":"on one-on-one conversations but how "},{"startTime":733.02,"endTime":737.4,"body":"many one-on-one conversations are you  "},{"startTime":737.4,"endTime":742.44,"body":"having in a class of 100? You "},{"startTime":737.4,"endTime":742.44,"body":"may not get to see all 100 students  "},{"startTime":743.16,"endTime":747.78,"body":"and I want to pull you and Kate on this to hear "},{"startTime":743.16,"endTime":747.78,"body":"your perspective as both a former student as  "},{"startTime":747.78,"endTime":752.1,"body":"someone who works with students a lot now. I was "},{"startTime":747.78,"endTime":752.1,"body":"just at a conference talking about vulnerability  "},{"startTime":752.1,"endTime":756.42,"body":"of learning and psychological safety and talking "},{"startTime":752.1,"endTime":756.42,"body":"about how do we help, what are the small  "},{"startTime":756.42,"endTime":760.68,"body":"things we do in the moment that help really "},{"startTime":756.42,"endTime":760.68,"body":"shore up the psychologically safe container and  "},{"startTime":760.68,"endTime":765.72,"body":"and address vulnerability and learning? We had "},{"startTime":760.68,"endTime":765.72,"body":"this conversation about how often are we  "},{"startTime":765.72,"endTime":770.52,"body":"getting to class early and before we stand at the "},{"startTime":765.72,"endTime":770.52,"body":"front of the room and wait for the clock to tick,  "},{"startTime":770.52,"endTime":774.84,"body":"tick, tick, tick so we can start and everyone's "},{"startTime":770.52,"endTime":774.84,"body":"in the seats? How often do we mingle around the  "},{"startTime":774.84,"endTime":780.84,"body":"classroom and just have a conversation and greet "},{"startTime":774.84,"endTime":780.84,"body":"our learners and have small talk and and just have  "},{"startTime":780.84,"endTime":786.24,"body":"a sentence or two to get to know them as a person? "},{"startTime":780.84,"endTime":786.24,"body":"I think back on my last 14 almost 15  "},{"startTime":786.24,"endTime":791.16,"body":"years in education now and the times I really "},{"startTime":786.24,"endTime":791.16,"body":"got to learn and know my students were actually  "},{"startTime":791.16,"endTime":795.3,"body":"in those bigger classes or even in that  cohort"},{"startTime":791.16,"endTime":795.3,"body":"with Kate, with you I think we had like 50  "},{"startTime":795.3,"endTime":801.0,"body":"some students, was getting to know them in those "},{"startTime":795.3,"endTime":801.0,"body":"small moments before class started or as we're  "},{"startTime":801.0,"endTime":806.22,"body":"leaving the room or when they come to my office "},{"startTime":801.0,"endTime":806.22,"body":"or  those small acts I think can really  "},{"startTime":806.22,"endTime":810.96,"body":"go a long way in getting to know our students. "},{"startTime":806.22,"endTime":810.96,"body":"Figuring out what their strengths are and even  "},{"startTime":810.96,"endTime":817.56,"body":"if we don't have the resources to help mentor them, "},{"startTime":810.96,"endTime":817.56,"body":"connecting them with the people who do."},{"startTime":820.08,"endTime":826.08,"body":"Yeah, that's a great point Rachel.  "},{"startTime":820.08,"endTime":826.08,"body":"I'm just thinking, I remember our  "},{"startTime":826.08,"endTime":830.28,"body":"program was in my opinion kind of"},{"startTime":826.08,"endTime":830.28,"body":"small compared to others.   "},{"startTime":831.0,"endTime":836.94,"body":"My undergrad was a tiny school "},{"startTime":831.0,"endTime":836.94,"body":"so to me it was a huge class, but now looking at  "},{"startTime":836.94,"endTime":842.46,"body":"the bigger perspective, our 50-person "},{"startTime":836.94,"endTime":842.46,"body":"class was tiny. Some of my classes in  "},{"startTime":842.46,"endTime":847.2,"body":"undergrad were eight students and so coming into "},{"startTime":842.46,"endTime":847.2,"body":"a classroom with 50 I was like, I don't want to  "},{"startTime":847.2,"endTime":851.94,"body":"talk. My mom asked me the first day did you make "},{"startTime":847.2,"endTime":851.94,"body":"any friends. I was like, I didn't speak to anybody."},{"startTime":854.22,"endTime":860.34,"body":"It wasn't until after a few weeks"},{"startTime":854.22,"endTime":860.34,"body":"getting more comfortable and  "},{"startTime":860.34,"endTime":866.16,"body":"then you guys I feel like really encouraged us "},{"startTime":860.34,"endTime":866.16,"body":"to try all of the guided study sessions so we  "},{"startTime":866.16,"endTime":871.5,"body":"had cohorts ahead of us that were tutoring us "},{"startTime":866.16,"endTime":871.5,"body":"and mentoring us and giving us their experience  "},{"startTime":872.52,"endTime":877.62,"body":"and having some of the previous graduates "},{"startTime":872.52,"endTime":877.62,"body":"come back and teach as a clinical instructor,  "},{"startTime":878.52,"endTime":884.1,"body":"you really got to see, you could see yourself "},{"startTime":878.52,"endTime":884.1,"body":"in that role or like okay, I can do this.  "},{"startTime":884.1,"endTime":890.94,"body":"Like, I know what I'm doing especially in a time "},{"startTime":884.1,"endTime":890.94,"body":"when you're struggling and you're trying  "},{"startTime":890.94,"endTime":897.9,"body":"to figure out how to learn all this information "},{"startTime":890.94,"endTime":897.9,"body":"and so to me having this, not necessarily  "},{"startTime":897.9,"endTime":902.28,"body":"a faculty mentor or anything like that but "},{"startTime":897.9,"endTime":902.28,"body":"just a peer mentor where you're somebody that's  "},{"startTime":902.28,"endTime":907.02,"body":"doesn't even have to be older, but just somebody "},{"startTime":902.28,"endTime":907.02,"body":"that's in a more experienced position than you  "},{"startTime":907.02,"endTime":912.12,"body":"that can help guide you to figure out what it is"},{"startTime":907.02,"endTime":912.12,"body":"that you want to do with your degree  "},{"startTime":912.12,"endTime":917.82,"body":"because there's so many options with nursing. It's "},{"startTime":912.12,"endTime":917.82,"body":"overwhelming to think about when you graduate  "},{"startTime":917.82,"endTime":921.36,"body":"because everybody just thinks it's clinical, "},{"startTime":917.82,"endTime":921.36,"body":"like a clinical bedside nurse. There's so  "},{"startTime":921.36,"endTime":928.26,"body":"many more options that people can do that I don't "},{"startTime":921.36,"endTime":928.26,"body":"think we really get into in the classroom  "},{"startTime":928.26,"endTime":934.14,"body":"at all. It's more focused on clinical but there's"},{"startTime":928.26,"endTime":934.14,"body":"so many other things that we could do too. "},{"startTime":935.94,"endTime":940.08,"body":"I think what you know by knowing "},{"startTime":935.94,"endTime":940.08,"body":"what those options are I think that  "},{"startTime":940.08,"endTime":943.26,"body":"would be yet another way to get to know your learners because   "},{"startTime":945.06,"endTime":950.22,"body":"I've often thought like when I've "},{"startTime":945.06,"endTime":950.22,"body":"had these office conversations  "},{"startTime":950.22,"endTime":955.44,"body":"with learners that are maybe struggling because "},{"startTime":950.22,"endTime":955.44,"body":"honestly, that's often what generates  "},{"startTime":955.44,"endTime":961.2,"body":"an office visit right with your faculty is "},{"startTime":955.44,"endTime":961.2,"body":"that there's like some struggle. So I would  "},{"startTime":961.2,"endTime":967.02,"body":"talk with them and learn about them that they have this"},{"startTime":967.02,"endTime":972.48,"body":"special contribution into nursing and you can "},{"startTime":967.02,"endTime":972.48,"body":"only get that by having these conversations and  "},{"startTime":972.48,"endTime":982.08,"body":"not everybody is cut out for being a rock star "},{"startTime":972.48,"endTime":982.08,"body":"ICU nursing in a in a big medical center, right . "},{"startTime":982.08,"endTime":987.96,"body":"There's like you mentioned hospice, and there's "},{"startTime":982.08,"endTime":987.96,"body":"community opportunities there's, even like really  "},{"startTime":987.96,"endTime":994.14,"body":"community outreach services. There's there's so "},{"startTime":987.96,"endTime":994.14,"body":"much out there and our learners don't know"},{"startTime":994.14,"endTime":999.24,"body":"unless you have this conversation with somebody "},{"startTime":994.14,"endTime":999.24,"body":"and you can unpack what their interest areas are  "},{"startTime":999.24,"endTime":1006.38,"body":"and where they can really shine. And then "},{"startTime":999.24,"endTime":1006.38,"body":"you can offer that, hold them up you know instead  "},{"startTime":1006.38,"endTime":1012.44,"body":"of just because they usually walk in the office "},{"startTime":1006.38,"endTime":1012.44,"body":"feeling discouraged deflated and like I can't be  "},{"startTime":1012.44,"endTime":1018.44,"body":"a nurse because I can't pass this test but that's "},{"startTime":1012.44,"endTime":1018.44,"body":"not true. That's not true. There's a place for you.  "},{"startTime":1019.04,"endTime":1026.84,"body":"There's a couple points I wanted to say."},{"startTime":1019.04,"endTime":1026.84,"body":"I think that in our clinical field and  "},{"startTime":1026.84,"endTime":1032.12,"body":"I definitely felt it in nursing schools when "},{"startTime":1026.84,"endTime":1032.12,"body":"you graduate you need to be an ICU nurse. You need  "},{"startTime":1032.12,"endTime":1038.6,"body":"to be the top of the top and that's apparently "},{"startTime":1032.12,"endTime":1038.6,"body":"the top of the top. I remember getting my  "},{"startTime":1038.6,"endTime":1043.22,"body":"practicum placement and I was devastated because "},{"startTime":1038.6,"endTime":1043.22,"body":"it wasn't the ICU and that's what I'd wanted. I'd  "},{"startTime":1043.22,"endTime":1049.94,"body":"been a student nurse there. You know, that was"},{"startTime":1043.22,"endTime":1049.94,"body":"my track and I remember probably crying to  "},{"startTime":1049.94,"endTime":1054.74,"body":"Rachel and she's like it's fine, you're gonna learn "},{"startTime":1049.94,"endTime":1054.74,"body":"so much. You're gonna see so much and I was just  "},{"startTime":1054.74,"endTime":1059.72,"body":"like okay. And seven years later I'm still on that "},{"startTime":1054.74,"endTime":1059.72,"body":"unit. I've tried to quit a couple times and I have  "},{"startTime":1059.72,"endTime":1067.22,"body":"I keep coming back so there's something about it "},{"startTime":1059.72,"endTime":1067.22,"body":"and I think just knowing that it's not always just  "},{"startTime":1067.22,"endTime":1074.06,"body":"that ICU role. It's that you can be a rock star "},{"startTime":1067.22,"endTime":1074.06,"body":"on a med-surg floor and that's great and good  "},{"startTime":1074.06,"endTime":1078.8,"body":"enough and that's okay because that's nursing too. "},{"startTime":1074.06,"endTime":1078.8,"body":"And the community nurse, like that's nursing too."},{"startTime":1081.98,"endTime":1088.46,"body":"I just want to go on record as an ED trauma "},{"startTime":1081.98,"endTime":1088.46,"body":"nurse saying I have so much respect for med-  "},{"startTime":1088.46,"endTime":1095.3,"body":"surg nurses who have a patient load "},{"startTime":1088.46,"endTime":1095.3,"body":"of five, six plus. The time management, it's  "},{"startTime":1095.3,"endTime":1101.84,"body":"an entirely different skill set. The ability "},{"startTime":1095.3,"endTime":1101.84,"body":"to communicate and to delegate and it's just  "},{"startTime":1103.22,"endTime":1108.32,"body":"something that is extraordinary and so I think "},{"startTime":1103.22,"endTime":1108.32,"body":"you're hitting on something really important, which  "},{"startTime":1108.32,"endTime":1113.42,"body":"is and we're going down a different rabbit hole "},{"startTime":1108.32,"endTime":1113.42,"body":"right now and I think that's fine, it's  "},{"startTime":1113.42,"endTime":1120.2,"body":"what are the messages we're sending our students "},{"startTime":1113.42,"endTime":1120.2,"body":"in nursing programs, right? So just like you said  "},{"startTime":1120.2,"endTime":1125.66,"body":"Kate, getting this feeling of, oh, to be the best nurse you have to be an ICU  "},{"startTime":1125.66,"endTime":1131.0,"body":"nurse or if you're X Y or Z it has some "},{"startTime":1125.66,"endTime":1131.0,"body":"sort of connotation. What are the inherent messages  "},{"startTime":1131.0,"endTime":1138.56,"body":"we're sending our learners because as the "},{"startTime":1131.0,"endTime":1138.56,"body":"healthcare landscape is drastically changing and  "},{"startTime":1139.34,"endTime":1145.46,"body":"where nurses are working and the types of roles "},{"startTime":1139.34,"endTime":1145.46,"body":"that they're holding is changing, we really need to  "},{"startTime":1145.46,"endTime":1150.2,"body":"break those stereotypes and those connotations "},{"startTime":1145.46,"endTime":1150.2,"body":"and make sure we're sending a different message  "},{"startTime":1150.2,"endTime":1155.72,"body":"to our students in nursing programs so that they "},{"startTime":1150.2,"endTime":1155.72,"body":"don't walk away feeling like that because that is  "},{"startTime":1155.72,"endTime":1161.96,"body":"gonna exacerbate the problem we have now at the bedside."},{"startTime":1155.72,"endTime":1161.96,"body":"Yeah, I remember during the pandemic there  "},{"startTime":1161.96,"endTime":1167.12,"body":"was this big pull for we need more nurses, we need "},{"startTime":1161.96,"endTime":1167.12,"body":"more nurses and people were coming in and saying  "},{"startTime":1167.12,"endTime":1170.72,"body":"like oh I can do I see you and it's like really? "},{"startTime":1167.12,"endTime":1170.72,"body":"we just need people after they leave the hospital  "},{"startTime":1170.72,"endTime":1177.8,"body":"like in a convalescent place. We need more med-surg"},{"startTime":1170.72,"endTime":1177.8,"body":"basically for all intensive purposes nurses  "},{"startTime":1177.8,"endTime":1182.24,"body":"and you know there wasn't enough of them. There "},{"startTime":1177.8,"endTime":1182.24,"body":"wasn't enough people that could do that skill set  "},{"startTime":1182.96,"endTime":1188.6,"body":"or were willing to do that skill set but everybody "},{"startTime":1182.96,"endTime":1188.6,"body":"was like, no, I can work in the bio containment unit. "},{"startTime":1189.68,"endTime":1194.54,"body":"But when it came to doing something"},{"startTime":1189.68,"endTime":1194.54,"body":"else elsewhere it was like oh,  "},{"startTime":1194.54,"endTime":1200.995,"body":"no, I can't do that or I don't have that "},{"startTime":1194.54,"endTime":1200.995,"body":"skill set. I think that that's pretty important."},{"startTime":1200.995,"endTime":1207.5,"body":"And you know Kate, this is really"},{"startTime":1200.995,"endTime":1207.5,"body":"helpful hearing this. I was  "},{"startTime":1207.5,"endTime":1213.26,"body":"wondering if you can expand a little bit on that. "},{"startTime":1207.5,"endTime":1213.26,"body":"A lot of nurse educators,  "},{"startTime":1213.98,"endTime":1220.64,"body":"a lot of times you start and you're in practice "},{"startTime":1213.98,"endTime":1220.64,"body":"and then you want to make a transition into  "},{"startTime":1220.64,"endTime":1227.0,"body":"education and for a while you end up doing both. "},{"startTime":1220.64,"endTime":1227.0,"body":"You can stay in practice and teach.  "},{"startTime":1227.96,"endTime":1233.72,"body":"At some point though, educators including myself "},{"startTime":1227.96,"endTime":1233.72,"body":"end up leaning more on the education heavy side  "},{"startTime":1233.72,"endTime":1240.98,"body":"and start really stepping away from practice and "},{"startTime":1233.72,"endTime":1240.98,"body":"sometimes completely and for some time amount of  "},{"startTime":1240.98,"endTime":1247.4,"body":"time that can really create a deficit in our "},{"startTime":1240.98,"endTime":1247.4,"body":"knowledge and our ability to kind of keep our  "},{"startTime":1247.4,"endTime":1252.74,"body":"finger on the pulse per se of what's happening "},{"startTime":1247.4,"endTime":1252.74,"body":"in clinical, especially if you're not clinical  "},{"startTime":1252.74,"endTime":1258.44,"body":"teaching anymore. I was just wondering if you "},{"startTime":1252.74,"endTime":1258.44,"body":"could share in case or any of our listeners out  "},{"startTime":1258.44,"endTime":1267.38,"body":"there, you know how has practice even on "},{"startTime":1258.44,"endTime":1267.38,"body":"your one unit that you've worked on, how  "},{"startTime":1267.38,"endTime":1274.04,"body":"did it change pre-pandemic, during the pandemic, and "},{"startTime":1267.38,"endTime":1274.04,"body":"now as we're entering this sort of post-pandemic  "},{"startTime":1274.04,"endTime":1278.24,"body":"phase, what are some of the changes you're seeing "},{"startTime":1274.04,"endTime":1278.24,"body":"in clinical practice what are the emphasis? "},{"startTime":1281.24,"endTime":1287.48,"body":"That's a really good question and I think to "},{"startTime":1281.24,"endTime":1287.48,"body":"me there's always been some sort of gap between  "},{"startTime":1287.48,"endTime":1292.34,"body":"the academia world and the clinical practice "},{"startTime":1287.48,"endTime":1292.34,"body":"world for the same reasons that you just said.  "},{"startTime":1293.06,"endTime":1298.88,"body":"It's to no fault because you have you can't do "},{"startTime":1293.06,"endTime":1298.88,"body":"both forever. It's exhausting. I was doing clinical  "},{"startTime":1298.88,"endTime":1306.32,"body":"education and working and trying to be a human and "},{"startTime":1298.88,"endTime":1306.32,"body":"it was just too much so I was like one has to give.  "},{"startTime":1307.34,"endTime":1315.98,"body":"It's not the human one, right?"},{"startTime":1307.34,"endTime":1315.98,"body":"That's what I was hoping!"},{"startTime":1315.98,"endTime":1320.84,"body":"a life and you know get married and have "},{"startTime":1315.98,"endTime":1320.84,"body":"all those wonderful things that come with that so  "},{"startTime":1322.16,"endTime":1328.64,"body":"I think I chose right for now, which "},{"startTime":1322.16,"endTime":1328.64,"body":"is really good feeling but I think  "},{"startTime":1328.64,"endTime":1335.6,"body":"that in school you learn about a disease or you "},{"startTime":1328.64,"endTime":1335.6,"body":"learn about an issue and in this perfect  "},{"startTime":1337.22,"endTime":1342.62,"body":"academia hospital you give the treatment, you give "},{"startTime":1337.22,"endTime":1342.62,"body":"the medication, you do the surgical intervention,  "},{"startTime":1342.62,"endTime":1348.86,"body":"and the patient's fixed, they're discharged, it's "},{"startTime":1342.62,"endTime":1348.86,"body":"a nice pretty package, and you move on. Where in  "},{"startTime":1348.86,"endTime":1353.42,"body":"the real world you have compliance issues, you "},{"startTime":1348.86,"endTime":1353.42,"body":"have all these comorbidities that   "},{"startTime":1353.42,"endTime":1360.32,"body":"prevent any healing. You have a lack of supplies, "},{"startTime":1353.42,"endTime":1360.32,"body":"breakdown communication between different teams,  "},{"startTime":1361.46,"endTime":1370.1,"body":"and that all affects the clinical day-to-day. It "},{"startTime":1361.46,"endTime":1370.1,"body":"doesn't even begin to start with the nurse's ratio  "},{"startTime":1370.1,"endTime":1375.56,"body":"and everything that they're responsible for"},{"startTime":1370.1,"endTime":1375.56,"body":"but in that academia world, yeah, you might be  "},{"startTime":1375.56,"endTime":1380.3,"body":"dealing with four case studies but you have this... "},{"startTime":1375.56,"endTime":1380.3,"body":"exactly how to fix it. You can  "},{"startTime":1380.3,"endTime":1385.22,"body":"give this medication to this person, they're fixed. "},{"startTime":1380.3,"endTime":1385.22,"body":"Okay, let's move on. Whereas in the real world you're  "},{"startTime":1385.22,"endTime":1391.52,"body":"going in between rooms dealing with "},{"startTime":1385.22,"endTime":1391.52,"body":"three or four different five in some patient  "},{"startTime":1391.52,"endTime":1398.66,"body":"cases scenarios and different beliefs, cultural "},{"startTime":1391.52,"endTime":1398.66,"body":"beliefs, all of these things that come into effect  "},{"startTime":1400.7,"endTime":1403.58,"body":"and I think in the academic "},{"startTime":1400.7,"endTime":1403.58,"body":"world you don't necessarily  "},{"startTime":1404.54,"endTime":1409.76,"body":"I think we try to do cultural competence and "},{"startTime":1404.54,"endTime":1409.76,"body":"think about all these things and think about  "},{"startTime":1409.76,"endTime":1414.2,"body":"comorbidities, but at the end of the day when "},{"startTime":1409.76,"endTime":1414.2,"body":"we're adding like in our adult health classes  "},{"startTime":1414.2,"endTime":1419.54,"body":"or our med-surg classes we're learning about the "},{"startTime":1414.2,"endTime":1419.54,"body":"interventions and they work and that's great,  "},{"startTime":1420.8,"endTime":1425.48,"body":"but in the real world that doesn't always happen "},{"startTime":1420.8,"endTime":1425.48,"body":"and there's complications from surgery, "},{"startTime":1425.48,"endTime":1430.88,"body":"there's infection, there's all these things that we "},{"startTime":1425.48,"endTime":1430.88,"body":"learn to look out for, but we don't necessarily see. "},{"startTime":1432.8,"endTime":1440.9,"body":"So Kate this is pretty awesome because and what "},{"startTime":1432.8,"endTime":1440.9,"body":"I'm hearing you say is the part that is sometimes  "},{"startTime":1440.9,"endTime":1449.12,"body":"missing is the learning in context piece.  "},{"startTime":1440.9,"endTime":1449.12,"body":"Learning the nursing process with a scenario,  "},{"startTime":1449.12,"endTime":1453.5,"body":"with the situation that's two-dimensional "},{"startTime":1449.12,"endTime":1453.5,"body":"that's on a piece of paper and you might  "},{"startTime":1453.5,"endTime":1460.1,"body":"throw some comorbidities in there to work through"},{"startTime":1453.5,"endTime":1460.1,"body":"that might be a very important step for  "},{"startTime":1460.82,"endTime":1468.14,"body":"a learner in an academic setting, but it is and "},{"startTime":1460.82,"endTime":1468.14,"body":"it is more than that, right. So to scaffold that...  "},{"startTime":1468.14,"endTime":1472.7,"body":"You have to learn that step before you can get "},{"startTime":1468.14,"endTime":1472.7,"body":"to the next step, but yes, we don't  "},{"startTime":1472.7,"endTime":1479.24,"body":"always get to that next step in the academic world."},{"startTime":1472.7,"endTime":1479.24,"body":"Yep. And this learning  "},{"startTime":1479.24,"endTime":1484.4,"body":"in context just emphasizes the importance "},{"startTime":1479.24,"endTime":1484.4,"body":"of Michelle and I, you know, are  "},{"startTime":1485.66,"endTime":1491.18,"body":"on a quest. Would you say it's a quest Michelle? A "},{"startTime":1485.66,"endTime":1491.18,"body":"life's work, a journey.  "},{"startTime":1491.18,"endTime":1494.9,"body":"We could think of a whole bunch of different "},{"startTime":1491.18,"endTime":1494.9,"body":"words we're gonna have another episode on just  "},{"startTime":1495.44,"endTime":1500.48,"body":"describing what we're trying to do.  "},{"startTime":1495.44,"endTime":1500.48,"body":"We're trying to really  "},{"startTime":1501.74,"endTime":1507.8,"body":"start momentum, get momentum behind something that "},{"startTime":1501.74,"endTime":1507.8,"body":"we should be doing long ago, which is getting away  "},{"startTime":1507.8,"endTime":1513.8,"body":"from these straight lectures and really embracing "},{"startTime":1507.8,"endTime":1513.8,"body":"problem-based learning, unfolding case studies,  "},{"startTime":1513.8,"endTime":1518.78,"body":"and immersive active learning strategies"},{"startTime":1513.8,"endTime":1518.78,"body":"because that's how learners learn in context.   "},{"startTime":1518.78,"endTime":1525.08,"body":"Katie, I don't know how deeply entrenched you "},{"startTime":1518.78,"endTime":1525.08,"body":"are in knowing about the Next Gen NCLEX format  "},{"startTime":1525.08,"endTime":1528.26,"body":"that's coming out and the clinical judgment "},{"startTime":1525.08,"endTime":1528.26,"body":"measurement model, but Michelle and I spent a  "},{"startTime":1528.26,"endTime":1534.372,"body":"lot of time talking and thinking and wrestling "},{"startTime":1528.26,"endTime":1534.372,"body":"with this. Part of it is that layer four."},{"startTime":1534.372,"endTime":1538.28,"body":"Layer three is the cognitive functions "},{"startTime":1534.372,"endTime":1538.28,"body":"that the Next Gen's measuring,  "},{"startTime":1539.18,"endTime":1545.18,"body":"but that layer of four context."},{"startTime":1539.18,"endTime":1545.18,"body":"I'm so glad to hear you say this Kate  "},{"startTime":1545.18,"endTime":1549.26,"body":"because it emphasizes the importance for "},{"startTime":1545.18,"endTime":1549.26,"body":"us in academia to really be thinking about  "},{"startTime":1549.26,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"and rethinking and reimagining what does "},{"startTime":1549.26,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"delivery of content look like and it's not  "},{"startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1558.32,"body":"really delivery of content. It's facilitation "},{"startTime":1554.36,"endTime":1558.32,"body":"of learning and facilitation of development  "},{"startTime":1558.32,"endTime":1562.46,"body":"of clinical judgment learning in context. "},{"startTime":1558.32,"endTime":1562.46,"body":"That doesn't happen with someone's  "},{"startTime":1562.46,"endTime":1569.3,"body":"clinched to a lectern at the front of the room "},{"startTime":1562.46,"endTime":1569.3,"body":"talking for three hours. It doesn't happen."},{"startTime":1570.32,"endTime":1576.98,"body":"We want to be conscious of our time "},{"startTime":1570.32,"endTime":1576.98,"body":"boundaries. This conversation could  "},{"startTime":1576.98,"endTime":1581.24,"body":"go on and it will. We will pick up with "},{"startTime":1576.98,"endTime":1581.24,"body":"our conversation with Kate discussing  "},{"startTime":1581.24,"endTime":1585.68,"body":"practice connections to education on our "},{"startTime":1581.24,"endTime":1585.68,"body":"next episode. We hope you join us next  "},{"startTime":1585.68,"endTime":1590.12,"body":"time with the Nursing EDge Unscripted "},{"startTime":1585.68,"endTime":1590.12,"body":"Surface podcast. Until then, be well."},{"startTime":1590.12,"endTime":1590.62,"body":"[Music]"}]}