{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":36.25,"endTime":37.25,"body":"[Music]"},{"startTime":37.25,"endTime":38.25,"body":"[Music]"},{"startTime":38.25,"endTime":41.15,"body":"Welcome to this episode of the NLN podcast"},{"startTime":38.25,"endTime":41.15,"body":"Nursing EDge Unscripted the Surface track"},{"startTime":41.15,"endTime":46.09,"body":"and thank you for joining us. This episode"},{"startTime":41.15,"endTime":46.09,"body":"is entitled Going Beyond Rank and Tenure:"},{"startTime":46.09,"endTime":51.95,"body":"What defines the value of the academic nurse"},{"startTime":46.09,"endTime":51.95,"body":"educator. Our conversation today will focus"},{"startTime":51.95,"endTime":57.64,"body":"on how we nurse educators work is defined,"},{"startTime":51.95,"endTime":57.64,"body":"acknowledged and celebrated. And to help us"},{"startTime":57.64,"endTime":63.59,"body":"today we have a very special guest. Dr. Jones"},{"startTime":57.64,"endTime":63.59,"body":"is the clinical associate professor and director"},{"startTime":63.59,"endTime":68.37,"body":"for the healthcare leadership and executive"},{"startTime":63.59,"endTime":68.37,"body":"healthcare leadership programs and also the"},{"startTime":68.37,"endTime":75.43,"body":"interim director of nursing informatics. Welcome"},{"startTime":68.37,"endTime":75.43,"body":"Kate and thank you for joining us. Oh thank"},{"startTime":75.43,"endTime":81.04,"body":"you for having me I'm excited to have this"},{"startTime":75.43,"endTime":81.04,"body":"conversation today. That's fantastic and I"},{"startTime":81.04,"endTime":86.75,"body":"know Rachel and I are as well. You know we"},{"startTime":81.04,"endTime":86.75,"body":"wanted to start really the theme of this conversation"},{"startTime":86.75,"endTime":94.31,"body":"is going to be around be around value and"},{"startTime":86.75,"endTime":94.31,"body":"the word value originates from Latin"},{"startTime":94.31,"endTime":102.19,"body":"and French and means to be strong or to be"},{"startTime":94.31,"endTime":102.19,"body":"of work and I think over time we've also added"},{"startTime":102.19,"endTime":108.2,"body":"a monetary kind of meaning to the word"},{"startTime":102.19,"endTime":108.2,"body":"value so I think it could have a lot of different"},{"startTime":108.2,"endTime":114.22,"body":"meanings to a lot of different people. What"},{"startTime":108.2,"endTime":114.22,"body":"are your thoughts about how values defined"},{"startTime":114.22,"endTime":121.3,"body":"really independent of profession or discipline?"},{"startTime":114.22,"endTime":121.3,"body":"How is value defined in the workplace?"},{"startTime":121.3,"endTime":128.27,"body":"As I was thinking about this topic, I was"},{"startTime":121.3,"endTime":128.27,"body":"thinking about all the ways that we use the"},{"startTime":128.27,"endTime":136.92,"body":"word value and conversation so we say things"},{"startTime":128.27,"endTime":136.92,"body":"like I value your opinion or that item you"},{"startTime":136.92,"endTime":144.8,"body":"know I want to sell it for fair market value"},{"startTime":136.92,"endTime":144.8,"body":"or even this bracelet has sentimental"},{"startTime":144.8,"endTime":153.14,"body":"value for me. So those words are a assigning"},{"startTime":144.8,"endTime":153.14,"body":"worth or importance to something right so"},{"startTime":153.14,"endTime":160.33,"body":"now we take that and we translate it to the"},{"startTime":153.14,"endTime":160.33,"body":"workplace and there you'll hear things like"},{"startTime":160.33,"endTime":170.08,"body":"a company's most important asset is its employees"},{"startTime":160.33,"endTime":170.08,"body":"or the one that if a company takes care"},{"startTime":170.08,"endTime":177.92,"body":"of their employees their profits will take"},{"startTime":170.08,"endTime":177.92,"body":"care of themselves. So those are ascribing"},{"startTime":177.92,"endTime":187.72,"body":"value in some way to this idea of what employees"},{"startTime":177.92,"endTime":187.72,"body":"bring to the workplace and so it's a value"},{"startTime":187.72,"endTime":196.63,"body":"proposition that is much more complex than"},{"startTime":187.72,"endTime":196.63,"body":"the idea of I do a job for you, you pay me"},{"startTime":196.63,"endTime":206.67,"body":"a salary that that's kind of the, you know,"},{"startTime":196.63,"endTime":206.67,"body":"the bottom line of it. But what all is wrapped"},{"startTime":206.67,"endTime":214.47,"body":"up in that? I do a job and you pay me a salary?"},{"startTime":206.67,"endTime":214.47,"body":"If you want your employees to stay and to"},{"startTime":214.47,"endTime":222.599,"body":"be engaged employees I think you have to"},{"startTime":214.47,"endTime":222.599,"body":"really take that farther right there has to"},{"startTime":222.599,"endTime":230.86,"body":"be a way that employees feel that they're"},{"startTime":222.599,"endTime":230.86,"body":"valued other than just receiving their paycheck."},{"startTime":230.86,"endTime":237.61,"body":"So some employees who maybe don't feel valued"},{"startTime":230.86,"endTime":237.61,"body":"might have the luxury of saying well then"},{"startTime":237.61,"endTime":241.83,"body":"I'm going to leave here and I'm going to go"},{"startTime":237.61,"endTime":241.83,"body":"work somewhere else but everyone doesn't have"},{"startTime":241.83,"endTime":250.08,"body":"that luxury so if someone doesn't feel valued"},{"startTime":241.83,"endTime":250.08,"body":"they may end up becoming disengaged at work."},{"startTime":250.08,"endTime":255.049,"body":"So then it is down to that bottom line equation -"},{"startTime":250.08,"endTime":255.049,"body":"I'm doing the work you're giving me a paycheck"},{"startTime":255.049,"endTime":260.919,"body":"and that's about it and that's a sad way to"},{"startTime":255.049,"endTime":260.919,"body":"go through your work life especially when"},{"startTime":260.919,"endTime":267.52,"body":"we think about how much time we spend at work."},{"startTime":260.919,"endTime":267.52,"body":"Time has its own value, right, and how we spend"},{"startTime":267.52,"endTime":272.2,"body":"our time and where we spend our time and with"},{"startTime":267.52,"endTime":272.2,"body":"whom we spend our time so I really think it's"},{"startTime":272.2,"endTime":279.5,"body":"important like you said to elevate the conversation"},{"startTime":272.2,"endTime":279.5,"body":"above this exchange of work for compensation."},{"startTime":279.5,"endTime":285.05,"body":"I think there's a lot more to talk about."},{"startTime":279.5,"endTime":285.05,"body":"Yeah definitely. And to take it a step further"},{"startTime":285.05,"endTime":291.17,"body":"it also makes me think about the way we attribute"},{"startTime":285.05,"endTime":291.17,"body":"value to things through the connotation that's"},{"startTime":291.17,"endTime":296.71,"body":"attached to the way we evaluate performance,"},{"startTime":291.17,"endTime":296.71,"body":"the way we reward performance, the way that"},{"startTime":296.71,"endTime":304.5,"body":"we think about what is it that we're measuring"},{"startTime":296.71,"endTime":304.5,"body":"the metrics we're measuring and the productivity"},{"startTime":304.5,"endTime":308.33,"body":"of our employees and I'm not even, you know,"},{"startTime":304.5,"endTime":308.33,"body":"thinking about in academia yet. We can get"},{"startTime":308.33,"endTime":312.36,"body":"there and I think we're going to have a really"},{"startTime":308.33,"endTime":312.36,"body":"rich conversation about that but just in general"},{"startTime":312.36,"endTime":317.669,"body":"non-discipline, non-profession specific there's"},{"startTime":312.36,"endTime":317.669,"body":"always metrics and I think there's a very"},{"startTime":317.669,"endTime":325.11,"body":"strong connotation attached to the metrics"},{"startTime":317.669,"endTime":325.11,"body":"and company or an institution has that sends"},{"startTime":325.11,"endTime":332.47,"body":"a message of value it sends a big message"},{"startTime":325.11,"endTime":332.47,"body":"so what gets measured by definition is what's"},{"startTime":332.47,"endTime":338.72,"body":"valued. So if there's this one of my big things"},{"startTime":332.47,"endTime":338.72,"body":"in a in an organization is, you know  you have"},{"startTime":338.72,"endTime":345.44,"body":"your company values, usually your mission statement,"},{"startTime":338.72,"endTime":345.44,"body":"your core values and if your core values don't"},{"startTime":345.44,"endTime":351.91,"body":"match up with what's being measured then you"},{"startTime":345.44,"endTime":351.91,"body":"have a disconnect and so if you have great"},{"startTime":351.91,"endTime":359.82,"body":"words like innovation and respect and you"},{"startTime":351.91,"endTime":359.82,"body":"know diversity but your measures of how an"},{"startTime":359.82,"endTime":366.66,"body":"employee's work is evaluated doesn't take"},{"startTime":359.82,"endTime":366.66,"body":"into account those things then that disconnect"},{"startTime":366.66,"endTime":373.1,"body":"is hard for us to understand. I think as employees"},{"startTime":366.66,"endTime":373.1,"body":"and it really really bothers me when core"},{"startTime":373.1,"endTime":381.97,"body":"values are just words on the website rather"},{"startTime":373.1,"endTime":381.97,"body":"than being lived in in daily work life and"},{"startTime":381.97,"endTime":388.419,"body":"so that's a whole other use of the word value,"},{"startTime":381.97,"endTime":388.419,"body":"right? What's important to me in a behavioral"},{"startTime":388.419,"endTime":396.949,"body":"way, which almost doesn't have the monetary"},{"startTime":388.419,"endTime":396.949,"body":"connotation assigned to it, and then how do"},{"startTime":396.949,"endTime":403.3,"body":"you define how who and who how do you define"},{"startTime":396.949,"endTime":403.3,"body":"innovation, for example, if that's probably"},{"startTime":403.3,"endTime":410.74,"body":"one of the core values and you want that to"},{"startTime":403.3,"endTime":410.74,"body":"show up in the work, how do you measure that,"},{"startTime":410.74,"endTime":418.43,"body":"who decides how it's measured, who decides"},{"startTime":410.74,"endTime":418.43,"body":"what it is like, who defines that, and so"},{"startTime":418.43,"endTime":423.69,"body":"there is the is it defined is it pulled into"},{"startTime":418.43,"endTime":423.69,"body":"the daily work is it measured and then who"},{"startTime":423.69,"endTime":428.86,"body":"does all of that? Is it co-created? You know,"},{"startTime":423.69,"endTime":428.86,"body":"I don't know how often I've been involved"},{"startTime":428.86,"endTime":439.13,"body":"in co-creating my performance evaluation"},{"startTime":428.86,"endTime":439.13,"body":"ahead of time, right. So I think that an organization"},{"startTime":439.13,"endTime":447.569,"body":"can do some things around that which is"},{"startTime":439.13,"endTime":447.569,"body":"maybe it's simply a question on the annual"},{"startTime":447.569,"endTime":455.53,"body":"evaluation that is and hopefully employees"},{"startTime":447.569,"endTime":455.53,"body":"are having an opportunity to do a self-evaluation,"},{"startTime":455.53,"endTime":462.479,"body":"you know, describe some ways in which you live"},{"startTime":455.53,"endTime":462.479,"body":"the company's values and maybe you do more"},{"startTime":462.479,"endTime":471.44,"body":"in one of the value areas than another. I think"},{"startTime":462.479,"endTime":471.44,"body":"that's one way another way that I have had"},{"startTime":471.44,"endTime":480.66,"body":"values kind of made living in the workplace"},{"startTime":471.44,"endTime":480.66,"body":"is when I start a meeting I would have you"},{"startTime":480.66,"endTime":486.78,"body":"know organizations do different things they'll"},{"startTime":480.66,"endTime":486.78,"body":"do you know start with successes or wins or"},{"startTime":486.78,"endTime":492.81,"body":"whatever I would have people start with a"},{"startTime":486.78,"endTime":492.81,"body":"story about how they applied our values and"},{"startTime":492.81,"endTime":499.61,"body":"work since our previous meeting so that's"},{"startTime":492.81,"endTime":499.61,"body":"another way I love that because you know"},{"startTime":499.61,"endTime":504.4,"body":"I would venture to guess I know from my experience"},{"startTime":499.61,"endTime":504.4,"body":"in academia, and I would venture to guess others"},{"startTime":504.4,"endTime":511.83,"body":"have the same experience as well - there's a"},{"startTime":504.4,"endTime":511.83,"body":"lot of time invested in coming up with an"},{"startTime":511.83,"endTime":516.19,"body":"organizational values and revisiting the the"},{"startTime":511.83,"endTime":516.19,"body":"values every so often often aligned with when"},{"startTime":516.19,"endTime":520.01,"body":"you're revisiting your strategic plan for"},{"startTime":516.19,"endTime":520.01,"body":"the next five to seven or however many years"},{"startTime":520.01,"endTime":526.01,"body":"your institution does it and you're right"},{"startTime":520.01,"endTime":526.01,"body":"we spend so much time in that how are we manifesting,"},{"startTime":526.01,"endTime":534.089,"body":"bringing it to life and aligning it with"},{"startTime":526.01,"endTime":534.089,"body":"how we embrace it create space for it recognize"},{"startTime":534.089,"endTime":541.459,"body":"it and for lack of a better word reward it"},{"startTime":534.089,"endTime":541.459,"body":"or evaluate that it's actually happening. Exactly."},{"startTime":541.459,"endTime":548.45,"body":"And I also appreciate the examples that you"},{"startTime":541.459,"endTime":548.45,"body":"gave Kate is that using like incorporating"},{"startTime":548.45,"endTime":555.09,"body":"the values into your daily work happens on"},{"startTime":548.45,"endTime":555.09,"body":"a daily basis at a meeting you know in these"},{"startTime":555.09,"endTime":562.029,"body":"kind of like little micro interactions"},{"startTime":555.09,"endTime":562.029,"body":"and engagements with one another as peers"},{"startTime":562.029,"endTime":570.08,"body":"as colleagues as teams I think just that constant"},{"startTime":562.029,"endTime":570.08,"body":"reminder I know Rachel and I having done"},{"startTime":570.08,"endTime":574.95,"body":"a lot of our teaching and simulation we start"},{"startTime":570.08,"endTime":574.95,"body":"with this basic assumption to help create"},{"startTime":574.95,"endTime":579.38,"body":"you know from let me just like that from the"},{"startTime":574.95,"endTime":579.38,"body":"Center for Medical Simulation to help create"},{"startTime":579.38,"endTime":584.67,"body":"an environment where learners can feel"},{"startTime":579.38,"endTime":584.67,"body":"comfortable taking risks in the in the service"},{"startTime":584.67,"endTime":590.48,"body":"of learning and we use this statement every"},{"startTime":584.67,"endTime":590.48,"body":"single time without fail consistently whenever"},{"startTime":590.48,"endTime":597.18,"body":"we engage with our learners to embark in this experience. So I think the consistency"},{"startTime":597.18,"endTime":601.88,"body":"is key the daily reminders can be very helpful"},{"startTime":597.18,"endTime":601.88,"body":"and that can really make it feel like you're"},{"startTime":601.88,"endTime":610.329,"body":"living these values. That's fantastic. Yeah."},{"startTime":601.88,"endTime":610.329,"body":"I think it's an important aspect of a healthy"},{"startTime":610.329,"endTime":618.579,"body":"work environment to first of all have values"},{"startTime":610.329,"endTime":618.579,"body":"that had, as Rachel said, they get revisited"},{"startTime":618.579,"endTime":624.66,"body":"sometimes. So when they get revisited who gets"},{"startTime":618.579,"endTime":624.66,"body":"to weigh in on what the values are going to"},{"startTime":624.66,"endTime":630.63,"body":"be? You don't want it to be something that"},{"startTime":624.66,"endTime":630.63,"body":"happens at a senior leadership off-site retreat."},{"startTime":630.63,"endTime":638.91,"body":"You want employees involved in what are the"},{"startTime":630.63,"endTime":638.91,"body":"values of this organization because if you're"},{"startTime":638.91,"endTime":644.01,"body":"involved in figuring out what they are then"},{"startTime":638.91,"endTime":644.01,"body":"presumably you're more likely to be able to"},{"startTime":644.01,"endTime":648.62,"body":"live them and display them and you know incorporate"},{"startTime":644.01,"endTime":648.62,"body":"them into your work behaviors."},{"startTime":648.62,"endTime":655.11,"body":"This makes me think about and if you don't"},{"startTime":648.62,"endTime":655.11,"body":"mind going here with me for a moment taking"},{"startTime":655.11,"endTime":661.269,"body":"our lens this 30 mile view big picture values"},{"startTime":655.11,"endTime":661.269,"body":"of an organization institution and narrowing"},{"startTime":661.269,"endTime":666.17,"body":"our lens a bit to the value of the individual"},{"startTime":661.269,"endTime":666.17,"body":"that the individual brings to the institution"},{"startTime":666.17,"endTime":671.149,"body":"and the value the institution has for the"},{"startTime":666.17,"endTime":671.149,"body":"individual the employee and if we take it"},{"startTime":671.149,"endTime":676.05,"body":"within the context of academia and what's"},{"startTime":671.149,"endTime":676.05,"body":"really running for me right now is this"},{"startTime":676.05,"endTime":683.39,"body":"conversation around or this theme about the"},{"startTime":676.05,"endTime":683.39,"body":"disconnect between how the values that we"},{"startTime":683.39,"endTime":692.459,"body":"may espouse or want to embrace and how"},{"startTime":683.39,"endTime":692.459,"body":"it's evaluated. And I think about in academia"},{"startTime":692.459,"endTime":698.26,"body":"how there may be a disconnect in the way we"},{"startTime":692.459,"endTime":698.26,"body":"evaluate the productivity of our faculty in"},{"startTime":698.26,"endTime":703.139,"body":"terms of those values and for me one of the"},{"startTime":698.26,"endTime":703.139,"body":"the big things running for me is I know Michelle"},{"startTime":703.139,"endTime":707.66,"body":"and I have colleagues that work at an institution"},{"startTime":703.139,"endTime":707.66,"body":"where their evaluations or annual evaluations"},{"startTime":707.66,"endTime":712.98,"body":"are based on an annual what's called an annual"},{"startTime":707.66,"endTime":712.98,"body":"faculty productivity report and it's endearingly"},{"startTime":712.98,"endTime":718.811,"body":"called the zero report because when faculty"},{"startTime":712.98,"endTime":718.811,"body":"sit down to fill it out and answer all of"},{"startTime":718.811,"endTime":724.57,"body":"the questions that's what, 6, 7 page, I"},{"startTime":718.811,"endTime":724.57,"body":"may be stretching the number but it's a long"},{"startTime":724.57,"endTime":731.11,"body":"list it's the answer to the question is zero."},{"startTime":724.57,"endTime":731.11,"body":"Zero, zero, zero, how many hours have I done"},{"startTime":731.11,"endTime":738.61,"body":"this year, how many times have you done this -"},{"startTime":731.11,"endTime":738.61,"body":"zero and faculty there's a feeling that faculty"},{"startTime":738.61,"endTime":744.79,"body":"walk away with this is a reflection of my"},{"startTime":738.61,"endTime":744.79,"body":"productivity and it can be very"},{"startTime":744.79,"endTime":749.92,"body":"disheartening when I would venture to guess"},{"startTime":744.79,"endTime":749.92,"body":"many of those faculty are putting in 60 plus"},{"startTime":749.92,"endTime":754.269,"body":"hour work weeks are incredibly committed and"},{"startTime":749.92,"endTime":754.269,"body":"dedicated and pouring into their institution,"},{"startTime":754.269,"endTime":759.94,"body":"their students, the profession and that's how"},{"startTime":754.269,"endTime":759.94,"body":"they're being evaluated. And so it kind of"},{"startTime":759.94,"endTime":766.01,"body":"leads me to this question of in academia we"},{"startTime":759.94,"endTime":766.01,"body":"tend to think about value in terms of research"},{"startTime":766.01,"endTime":770.66,"body":"dollars. A lot that the value that especially"},{"startTime":766.01,"endTime":770.66,"body":"with research intensive faculty bring their"},{"startTime":770.66,"endTime":778.589,"body":"value is often in measured in research"},{"startTime":770.66,"endTime":778.589,"body":"dollars or funding. And I think for faculty"},{"startTime":778.589,"endTime":783.41,"body":"who are not research intensive who may be"},{"startTime":778.589,"endTime":783.41,"body":"clinical or professional track non-research,"},{"startTime":783.41,"endTime":790.14,"body":"non-tenure track they have a difficult time"},{"startTime":783.41,"endTime":790.14,"body":"articulating their value because their currency"},{"startTime":790.14,"endTime":796.47,"body":"is not in research dollars. So I'm curious"},{"startTime":790.14,"endTime":796.47,"body":"to hear what your thoughts are with how faculty"},{"startTime":796.47,"endTime":800.26,"body":"if they're not bringing in research dollars"},{"startTime":796.47,"endTime":800.26,"body":"but yet still contributing and bringing value -"},{"startTime":800.26,"endTime":805.57,"body":"how do they articulate that value and how"},{"startTime":800.26,"endTime":805.57,"body":"do we shift so we're really valuing their"},{"startTime":805.57,"endTime":812.16,"body":"contributions? Well, so if we could all answer"},{"startTime":805.57,"endTime":812.16,"body":"this question it would solve one of the great"},{"startTime":812.16,"endTime":819.69,"body":"mysteries of academia! I believe, so as you"},{"startTime":812.16,"endTime":819.69,"body":"know, my  entry into academia was late"},{"startTime":819.69,"endTime":828.019,"body":"career for me. I had been in organizations"},{"startTime":819.69,"endTime":828.019,"body":"for over 30 years and within a short time"},{"startTime":828.019,"endTime":836.07,"body":"I came to realize that that value issue."},{"startTime":828.019,"endTime":836.07,"body":"I realized that research faculty who were"},{"startTime":836.07,"endTime":847.32,"body":"bringing research funding are highly valued"},{"startTime":836.07,"endTime":847.32,"body":"in academia and for good reason, right? But"},{"startTime":847.32,"endTime":854.48,"body":"I knew that that wasn't what I would be doing."},{"startTime":847.32,"endTime":854.48,"body":"So I'm a DNP prepared faculty member. I actually"},{"startTime":854.48,"endTime":863.43,"body":"after a few months went to the dean and said,"},{"startTime":854.48,"endTime":863.43,"body":"do I need to get a PhD? Because from my organizational"},{"startTime":863.43,"endTime":871.12,"body":"experience I always identified what was valued"},{"startTime":863.43,"endTime":871.12,"body":"by the organization and tried to contribute"},{"startTime":871.12,"endTime":879.72,"body":"to that so here I am kind of seeing this, you"},{"startTime":871.12,"endTime":879.72,"body":"know, this value thing that happens and and"},{"startTime":879.72,"endTime":884.99,"body":"in academia and I knew that I wasn't going"},{"startTime":879.72,"endTime":884.99,"body":"to be doing that and I was trying to figure"},{"startTime":884.99,"endTime":890.62,"body":"out if I was in the right place very early"},{"startTime":884.99,"endTime":890.62,"body":"on or if I needed to do something different."},{"startTime":890.62,"endTime":898.639,"body":"And the dean said, no you don't need to"},{"startTime":890.62,"endTime":898.639,"body":"get a PhD. We hired you for your expertise."},{"startTime":898.639,"endTime":908.69,"body":"So in that situation she was describing value"},{"startTime":898.639,"endTime":908.69,"body":"to the expertise that I bring to the particular"},{"startTime":908.69,"endTime":915.29,"body":"courses that I was teaching and they didn't"},{"startTime":908.69,"endTime":915.29,"body":"require me to go down this other path but"},{"startTime":915.29,"endTime":922.79,"body":"it was kind of a very significant kind of"},{"startTime":915.29,"endTime":922.79,"body":"awakening for me about you know this what"},{"startTime":922.79,"endTime":929.959,"body":"happens in academia so I think we can all"},{"startTime":922.79,"endTime":929.959,"body":"agree it's much easier to quantify grant funding"},{"startTime":929.959,"endTime":938.5,"body":"dollars than it is to quantify things like"},{"startTime":929.959,"endTime":938.5,"body":"student success, student retention, student"},{"startTime":938.5,"endTime":946.3,"body":"experience which I think is super important."},{"startTime":938.5,"endTime":946.3,"body":"And so your question kind of implies how..."},{"startTime":946.3,"endTime":954.149,"body":"how do we deal with that as faculty who are"},{"startTime":946.3,"endTime":954.149,"body":"not research focused faculty? And I think"},{"startTime":954.149,"endTime":961.6,"body":"the answer one of the answers is questioning"},{"startTime":954.149,"endTime":961.6,"body":"kind of that artificial imbalance between"},{"startTime":961.6,"endTime":969.55,"body":"teaching and research. Looking at what we've"},{"startTime":961.6,"endTime":969.55,"body":"done from a system perspective that is is"},{"startTime":969.55,"endTime":978.95,"body":"artificial. So, for example, I think"},{"startTime":969.55,"endTime":978.95,"body":"about why are some academic leadership positions"},{"startTime":978.95,"endTime":987.72,"body":"available only to tenured faculty because"},{"startTime":978.95,"endTime":987.72,"body":"when you think about it, the track that a teaching"},{"startTime":987.72,"endTime":997.32,"body":"faculty is on is about you know excelling"},{"startTime":987.72,"endTime":997.32,"body":"at that part of the academic world right being"},{"startTime":997.32,"endTime":1003.78,"body":"really excellent at teaching and it's in it"},{"startTime":997.32,"endTime":1003.78,"body":"moving students through their programs and"},{"startTime":1003.78,"endTime":1009.54,"body":"all of those things and it seems to me that"},{"startTime":1003.78,"endTime":1009.54,"body":"academic leadership roles need those kinds"},{"startTime":1009.54,"endTime":1016.839,"body":"of faculty to be promoted into but there"},{"startTime":1009.54,"endTime":1016.839,"body":"are many instances where that's not even an"},{"startTime":1016.839,"endTime":1022.31,"body":"option. So I think that's one imbalance that"},{"startTime":1016.839,"endTime":1022.31,"body":"we should question. I think another one"},{"startTime":1022.31,"endTime":1029.289,"body":"we should question is how much publication"},{"startTime":1022.31,"endTime":1029.289,"body":"is really needed for teaching faculty."},{"startTime":1029.289,"endTime":1036.039,"body":"You want us to be excellent teachers. We want"},{"startTime":1029.289,"endTime":1036.039,"body":"to be excellent teachers. So how much time,"},{"startTime":1036.039,"endTime":1041.709,"body":"how much of my time because remember back"},{"startTime":1036.039,"endTime":1041.709,"body":"to the comment that time equals value, right?"},{"startTime":1041.709,"endTime":1049.97,"body":"How much of my time do you want me to spend"},{"startTime":1041.709,"endTime":1049.97,"body":"publishing versus improving my courses"},{"startTime":1049.97,"endTime":1056.1,"body":"and just continuing to make sure that they"},{"startTime":1049.97,"endTime":1056.1,"body":"are, you know, have all the most current materials"},{"startTime":1056.1,"endTime":1062.2,"body":"and, you know, everything about my courses is"},{"startTime":1056.1,"endTime":1062.2,"body":"at the highest level? So that's another one."},{"startTime":1062.2,"endTime":1069.809,"body":"And then another one I think about that we"},{"startTime":1062.2,"endTime":1069.809,"body":"should question is are our activities inclusive?"},{"startTime":1069.809,"endTime":1080.98,"body":"So, for example, do teaching faculty feel welcome"},{"startTime":1069.809,"endTime":1080.98,"body":"at research presentations or research committees?"},{"startTime":1080.98,"endTime":1087.49,"body":"Those events that happen all the time in colleges"},{"startTime":1080.98,"endTime":1087.49,"body":"of nursing that are you know shining a light"},{"startTime":1087.49,"endTime":1093.48,"body":"appropriately so you know I want to be sure"},{"startTime":1087.49,"endTime":1093.48,"body":"it's clear that I believe there need to"},{"startTime":1093.48,"endTime":1100.07,"body":"be both sides of this coin, right? The you can"},{"startTime":1093.48,"endTime":1100.07,"body":"call it the teaching side in the research"},{"startTime":1100.07,"endTime":1107.46,"body":"side or you can call it the knowledge"},{"startTime":1100.07,"endTime":1107.46,"body":"development side and the knowledge to dissemination"},{"startTime":1107.46,"endTime":1114.11,"body":"side. Whatever you want to call it there needs"},{"startTime":1107.46,"endTime":1114.11,"body":"to be both but do teaching faculty feel welcome"},{"startTime":1114.11,"endTime":1121.36,"body":"and is there an inclusive environment"},{"startTime":1114.11,"endTime":1121.36,"body":"around all of the activities that happen in"},{"startTime":1121.36,"endTime":1125.63,"body":"the college. So I've said a lot. I'll pause"},{"startTime":1121.36,"endTime":1125.63,"body":"for a moment"},{"startTime":1125.63,"endTime":1135.59,"body":"I think you've raised really excellent questions"},{"startTime":1125.63,"endTime":1135.59,"body":"and food for thought and tying that to"},{"startTime":1135.59,"endTime":1143.7,"body":"is it reflected in how we're evaluating faculty"},{"startTime":1135.59,"endTime":1143.7,"body":"and how we're using criteria or informing"},{"startTime":1143.7,"endTime":1148.929,"body":"criteria for promotion to reflect that they"},{"startTime":1143.7,"endTime":1148.929,"body":"are experts in their field of what they're"},{"startTime":1148.929,"endTime":1154.28,"body":"doing spending their time doing right if that"},{"startTime":1148.929,"endTime":1154.28,"body":"equates to value and it doesn't always necessarily"},{"startTime":1154.28,"endTime":1162.289,"body":"fall into these nice clean buckets of pubs"},{"startTime":1154.28,"endTime":1162.289,"body":"and presentations and funding scholarship"},{"startTime":1162.289,"endTime":1168.63,"body":"research. And you know, Michelle and I have"},{"startTime":1162.289,"endTime":1168.63,"body":"had this conversation several times about"},{"startTime":1168.63,"endTime":1176.2,"body":"the value we get from or I should rephrase"},{"startTime":1168.63,"endTime":1176.2,"body":"it,  when we talk about impact the impact that"},{"startTime":1176.2,"endTime":1181.549,"body":"educators specifically nursing educators are"},{"startTime":1176.2,"endTime":1181.549,"body":"having to the profession, there is, we think,"},{"startTime":1181.549,"endTime":1184.929,"body":"and I'll let Michelle chime in here based"},{"startTime":1181.549,"endTime":1184.929,"body":"on our conversations, there is still value"},{"startTime":1184.929,"endTime":1186.679,"body":"and impact we get from"},{"startTime":1186.679,"endTime":1196.78,"body":"designing a MOOC or having some national webinar"},{"startTime":1186.679,"endTime":1196.78,"body":"where we're getting hundreds of people providing"},{"startTime":1196.78,"endTime":1203.659,"body":"feedback to us on the style and our objectives"},{"startTime":1196.78,"endTime":1203.659,"body":"and the content we're delivering. I find"},{"startTime":1203.659,"endTime":1210.73,"body":"personally a lot of value in influencing my"},{"startTime":1203.659,"endTime":1210.73,"body":"practice and how I shape my future contributions"},{"startTime":1210.73,"endTime":1217.549,"body":"just as much as when I get three blind anonymous"},{"startTime":1210.73,"endTime":1217.549,"body":"reviewers on a manuscript I might submit and"},{"startTime":1217.549,"endTime":1221.73,"body":"so it's different and I'm not saying one is"},{"startTime":1217.549,"endTime":1221.73,"body":"better than the other or putting some quantitative"},{"startTime":1221.73,"endTime":1226.95,"body":"or qualitative label on it and I guess my"},{"startTime":1221.73,"endTime":1226.95,"body":"point here is it's not an either/or. I think"},{"startTime":1226.95,"endTime":1233.919,"body":"there's an and. I think there's a space to"},{"startTime":1226.95,"endTime":1233.919,"body":"consider other forms of contribution and impact"},{"startTime":1233.919,"endTime":1241.8,"body":"beyond these three clean buckets of publications"},{"startTime":1233.919,"endTime":1241.8,"body":"and presentations and research and I may have"},{"startTime":1241.8,"endTime":1245.563,"body":"added a lot of spice out there when people"},{"startTime":1241.8,"endTime":1245.563,"body":"listen to this."},{"startTime":1245.563,"endTime":1252.6,"body":"Well I think one way because you talked about quantitative how to do it"},{"startTime":1245.563,"endTime":1252.6,"body":"that way one way because we have these buckets"},{"startTime":1252.6,"endTime":1260.6,"body":"of service you know scholarship and teaching"},{"startTime":1252.6,"endTime":1260.6,"body":"right but do they all have to be equal on"},{"startTime":1260.6,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"the evaluation? So when I put together a rubric"},{"startTime":1260.6,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"for a paper I always let my students know"},{"startTime":1268.28,"endTime":1273.57,"body":"you see that section right there that's worth"},{"startTime":1268.28,"endTime":1273.57,"body":"40 points that's the most important one make"},{"startTime":1273.57,"endTime":1279.65,"body":"sure you're really paying attention and putting"},{"startTime":1273.57,"endTime":1279.65,"body":"the meat that I'm asking for in that part"},{"startTime":1279.65,"endTime":1286.419,"body":"that's worth 40 percent the part that's worth"},{"startTime":1279.65,"endTime":1286.419,"body":"five percent. Yes, I still want you to do but"},{"startTime":1286.419,"endTime":1296.44,"body":"you know I've ascribed value to the different"},{"startTime":1286.419,"endTime":1296.44,"body":"parts of the rubric so should we rebalance"},{"startTime":1296.44,"endTime":1301.76,"body":"teaching scholarship and service and if you're"},{"startTime":1296.44,"endTime":1301.76,"body":"a teaching intensive faculty members should"},{"startTime":1301.76,"endTime":1311.96,"body":"it be 60 of an evaluation where service and"},{"startTime":1301.76,"endTime":1311.96,"body":"scholarship are 20 each and maybe the opposite"},{"startTime":1311.96,"endTime":1318.94,"body":"for research intensive faculty roles. I don't"},{"startTime":1311.96,"endTime":1318.94,"body":"know that that's the solution I bet that there"},{"startTime":1318.94,"endTime":1324.47,"body":"are schools out there that are doing something"},{"startTime":1318.94,"endTime":1324.47,"body":"like that but it just you know there's"},{"startTime":1324.47,"endTime":1330.405,"body":"got to be a way during that process for us"},{"startTime":1324.47,"endTime":1330.405,"body":"to feel like the piece that we bring is valued by the organization."},{"startTime":1330.405,"endTime":1342.0,"body":"One thing I want to kind of circle back to something also that you just said Rachel too,"},{"startTime":1342.0,"endTime":1349.76,"body":"is that when we as faculty"},{"startTime":1342.0,"endTime":1349.76,"body":"are doing things like innovating, right, creating a new program,"},{"startTime":1349.76,"endTime":1355.72,"body":"innovating, really presenting"},{"startTime":1349.76,"endTime":1355.72,"body":"like you said on a...really stretching ourselves"},{"startTime":1355.799,"endTime":1360.26,"body":"and challenging ourselves to get out of our"},{"startTime":1355.799,"endTime":1360.26,"body":"comfort zone our organization right it's more"},{"startTime":1360.26,"endTime":1367.27,"body":"of a state or national level if there's an"},{"startTime":1360.26,"endTime":1367.27,"body":"opportunity to do that in that effort think"},{"startTime":1367.27,"endTime":1373.33,"body":"about how much internal growth happens think"},{"startTime":1367.27,"endTime":1373.33,"body":"about how much work and if you I think people"},{"startTime":1373.33,"endTime":1378.73,"body":"that talk about money use the word return"},{"startTime":1373.33,"endTime":1378.73,"body":"on investment if I'm doing these things that"},{"startTime":1378.73,"endTime":1386.33,"body":"require a much higher level of knowledge skill"},{"startTime":1378.73,"endTime":1386.33,"body":"and ability quite honestly and they might"},{"startTime":1386.33,"endTime":1390.76,"body":"not be research. I'm not even going to put"},{"startTime":1386.33,"endTime":1390.76,"body":"research higher. I'm going to say it's not"},{"startTime":1390.76,"endTime":1395.34,"body":"research but it's creation it's innovation."},{"startTime":1390.76,"endTime":1395.34,"body":"It's something different and all of this that."},{"startTime":1395.34,"endTime":1400.909,"body":"I'm putting into it. I'm going to also put"},{"startTime":1395.34,"endTime":1400.909,"body":"out into everything else I'm doing you know."},{"startTime":1400.909,"endTime":1404.68,"body":"I think it goes back, I'm going to put it back"},{"startTime":1400.909,"endTime":1404.68,"body":"into the classroom. I'm going to put it back"},{"startTime":1404.68,"endTime":1410.9,"body":"out to my colleagues and it's disseminating"},{"startTime":1404.68,"endTime":1410.9,"body":"at the same time. It's just a different"},{"startTime":1410.9,"endTime":1416.6,"body":"format you know. I just I wonder if there"},{"startTime":1410.9,"endTime":1416.6,"body":"was, I wish there was a way when you talk about"},{"startTime":1416.6,"endTime":1424.46,"body":"evaluating, I wish there was a way to measure"},{"startTime":1416.6,"endTime":1424.46,"body":"that right that academic work that goes into"},{"startTime":1424.46,"endTime":1433.409,"body":"doing some of these things that are quite"},{"startTime":1424.46,"endTime":1433.409,"body":"productive, but not research."},{"startTime":1433.409,"endTime":1440.47,"body":"I agree with that I think for example redesigning"},{"startTime":1433.409,"endTime":1440.47,"body":"a course and bringing it kind of to a"},{"startTime":1440.47,"endTime":1446.29,"body":"higher level and having it then be evaluated"},{"startTime":1440.47,"endTime":1446.29,"body":"by students and students having a positive"},{"startTime":1446.29,"endTime":1453.59,"body":"experience in that course and it helping move"},{"startTime":1446.29,"endTime":1453.59,"body":"them towards their goals that that's a lot"},{"startTime":1453.59,"endTime":1462.44,"body":"of effort and it shows up on our evaluation"},{"startTime":1453.59,"endTime":1462.44,"body":"criteria you know have...you redeveloped a course"},{"startTime":1462.44,"endTime":1474.0,"body":"and again it feels like, you know, yes no."},{"startTime":1462.44,"endTime":1474.0,"body":"You can say yes, I have but is the value"},{"startTime":1474.0,"endTime":1482.86,"body":"of what that work effort took is that recognized?"},{"startTime":1474.0,"endTime":1482.86,"body":"And sometimes it is sometimes it's not,"},{"startTime":1482.86,"endTime":1483.86,"body":"but it should be."},{"startTime":1483.86,"endTime":1491.09,"body":"We want to be conscious of our time boundaries."},{"startTime":1483.86,"endTime":1491.09,"body":"This conversation could go on and it will."},{"startTime":1491.09,"endTime":1495.08,"body":"We will pick up with our conversation with"},{"startTime":1491.09,"endTime":1495.08,"body":"Kate discussing how faculty value is defined"},{"startTime":1495.08,"endTime":1497.706,"body":"on our next episode."},{"startTime":1497.706,"endTime":1505.922,"body":"[Music] Thank you for joining us on this episode of NLN Nursing EDge Unscripted Surface. We hope you join us next time."},{"startTime":1505.922,"endTime":1513.94,"body":"Until then, remember whether your"},{"startTime":1505.922,"endTime":1513.94,"body":"water is calm or choppy, stay connected, get vulnerable, and dare to go beneath the surface."},{"startTime":1513.94,"endTime":1530.32,"body":"[Music]"}]}