{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":29.96,"endTime":35.96,"body":"[Music]"},{"startTime":36.68,"endTime":42.36,"body":"Welcome to this episode of the podcast Nursing "},{"startTime":36.68,"endTime":42.36,"body":"EDge Unscripted the Scholarship track. I'm your  "},{"startTime":42.36,"endTime":48.68,"body":"host Dr. Steven Palazzo, a member of the editorial "},{"startTime":42.36,"endTime":48.68,"body":"board of Nursing Education Perspectives. Nursing  "},{"startTime":48.68,"endTime":53.8,"body":"EDge Unscripted and our track entitled Scholarship "},{"startTime":48.68,"endTime":53.8,"body":"celebrates the published work of select nurse  "},{"startTime":53.8,"endTime":60.52,"body":"educators from the NLN's official journal Nursing "},{"startTime":53.8,"endTime":60.52,"body":"Education Perspectives and the NLN Nursing EDge  "},{"startTime":60.52,"endTime":65.44,"body":"blog. The conversations embrace the author's "},{"startTime":60.52,"endTime":65.44,"body":"unique perspectives on teaching and learning  "},{"startTime":65.44,"endTime":70.76,"body":"innovations and the implications for nursing "},{"startTime":65.44,"endTime":70.76,"body":"program development and enhancement. In this  "},{"startTime":70.76,"endTime":75.72,"body":"episode we will discuss effective teaching and "},{"startTime":70.76,"endTime":75.72,"body":"learning strategies for teaching about racism.  "},{"startTime":75.72,"endTime":80.44,"body":"We will discuss the perspectives of my guest "},{"startTime":75.72,"endTime":80.44,"body":"today, Dr. Danica Sumpter who is a clinical  "},{"startTime":80.44,"endTime":86.64,"body":"associate professor at the University of Texas "},{"startTime":80.44,"endTime":86.64,"body":"Austin School of Nursing and authored ART Praxis:  "},{"startTime":86.64,"endTime":91.24,"body":"Evidence-Based Strategies for Antiracist "},{"startTime":86.64,"endTime":91.24,"body":"Teaching in Nursing. The article can be found  "},{"startTime":91.24,"endTime":97.32,"body":"in our current September-October special issue "},{"startTime":91.24,"endTime":97.32,"body":"of Nursing Education Perspectives. Dr. Sumpter,  "},{"startTime":97.32,"endTime":103.08,"body":"welcome. Thank you Steven. I'm happy to be here. "},{"startTime":97.32,"endTime":103.08,"body":"We are very happy to have you here and I want to  "},{"startTime":103.08,"endTime":108.64,"body":"start off by first asking you to just describe the "},{"startTime":103.08,"endTime":108.64,"body":"process of anti-racist teaching and learning and  "},{"startTime":108.64,"endTime":113.4,"body":"why it's imperative to dismantle the structures "},{"startTime":108.64,"endTime":113.4,"body":"and systems that support a white narrative in  "},{"startTime":113.4,"endTime":120.04,"body":"nursing education and very specifically I guess "},{"startTime":113.4,"endTime":120.04,"body":"for the audience that have no experience in this  "},{"startTime":120.04,"endTime":125.2,"body":"area and are very hesitant or unsure of how "},{"startTime":120.04,"endTime":125.2,"body":"to move forward. Yeah that's a great question  "},{"startTime":125.2,"endTime":132.36,"body":"and I'm going to take a page from Simon Sinek and "},{"startTime":125.2,"endTime":132.36,"body":"start with the why first. I think even within the  "},{"startTime":132.36,"endTime":138.24,"body":"question this idea of the white narrative or some "},{"startTime":132.36,"endTime":138.24,"body":"authors have labeled it kind of the white racial  "},{"startTime":138.24,"endTime":145.8,"body":"frame is so normative within society in general "},{"startTime":138.24,"endTime":145.8,"body":"but nursing as sort of this microcosm of society  "},{"startTime":145.8,"endTime":152.76,"body":"and it is so normative that it's invisible and so "},{"startTime":145.8,"endTime":152.76,"body":"unless we are very intentional about making the  "},{"startTime":152.76,"endTime":158.6,"body":"invisible visible the status quo is never going "},{"startTime":152.76,"endTime":158.6,"body":"to change because we can't change what we can't  "},{"startTime":158.6,"endTime":165.8,"body":"see. And so this idea of white dominance or the "},{"startTime":158.6,"endTime":165.8,"body":"centrality or the supremacy of whiteness within  "},{"startTime":165.8,"endTime":172.52,"body":"nursing that's what keeps us from being able to "},{"startTime":165.8,"endTime":172.52,"body":"diversify the workforce, which we know is required  "},{"startTime":172.52,"endTime":178.52,"body":"to be able to eliminate health inequities. And "},{"startTime":172.52,"endTime":178.52,"body":"so when whiteness is the standard for everything  "},{"startTime":178.52,"endTime":186.44,"body":"that's considered good and right and beautiful and "},{"startTime":178.52,"endTime":186.44,"body":"you name it, why would it be surprising if those of  "},{"startTime":186.44,"endTime":193.2,"body":"us who are racialized as Black would feel like we "},{"startTime":186.44,"endTime":193.2,"body":"don't belong, would feel like our experiences or  "},{"startTime":193.2,"endTime":199.24,"body":"our ways of knowing, our ways of being within the "},{"startTime":193.2,"endTime":199.24,"body":"world don't count as real knowledge, that don't  "},{"startTime":199.24,"endTime":205.04,"body":"count as real experiences? And so to experience "},{"startTime":199.24,"endTime":205.04,"body":"this constant state of feeling like you don't  "},{"startTime":205.04,"endTime":211.08,"body":"belong and you don't matter, that takes a lot of "},{"startTime":205.04,"endTime":211.08,"body":"emotional energy, a lot of intellectual energy.  "},{"startTime":211.08,"endTime":215.76,"body":"That's energy that our our white counterparts "},{"startTime":211.08,"endTime":215.76,"body":"don't have to expend and that they can apply  "},{"startTime":215.76,"endTime":220.08,"body":"towards the rigors of nursing school "},{"startTime":215.76,"endTime":220.08,"body":"if you're you know a nursing student or within  "},{"startTime":220.08,"endTime":226.28,"body":"the promotion and tenure if you're a faculty and "},{"startTime":220.08,"endTime":226.28,"body":"even within the staff realm. So for us to be  "},{"startTime":226.28,"endTime":232.88,"body":"able to acknowledge and to see that that's got "},{"startTime":226.28,"endTime":232.88,"body":"to be kind of our starting or the why and then  "},{"startTime":232.88,"endTime":238.32,"body":"I'll kind of transition to the first part of the "},{"startTime":232.88,"endTime":238.32,"body":"question, the how. The how we do that, and I borrow  "},{"startTime":238.32,"endTime":246.84,"body":"a metaphor from Emily Style with the SEED Project. "},{"startTime":238.32,"endTime":246.84,"body":"She uses it the window and the mirror. She uses it  "},{"startTime":246.84,"endTime":252.6,"body":"to refer to curriculum but I like to just use it "},{"startTime":246.84,"endTime":252.6,"body":"as I think about this work. And so she talks about  "},{"startTime":252.6,"endTime":257.88,"body":"the need for us to look in the mirror first, so "},{"startTime":252.6,"endTime":257.88,"body":"this introspection. I heard a great quote  "},{"startTime":257.88,"endTime":264.76,"body":"that revolution begins with the self, in the self."},{"startTime":257.88,"endTime":264.76,"body":"so this idea of examining ourselves, reflecting  "},{"startTime":264.76,"endTime":271.72,"body":"on these everyday moments when thoughts, words, "},{"startTime":264.76,"endTime":271.72,"body":"actions manifest that are reflective of these  "},{"startTime":271.72,"endTime":277.72,"body":"narratives about dominant culture the way that "},{"startTime":271.72,"endTime":277.72,"body":"I've been socialized to believe. When those things  "},{"startTime":277.72,"endTime":283.88,"body":"pop up, like, I've got to become more aware of them "},{"startTime":277.72,"endTime":283.88,"body":"in my everyday life and so anti-racism is not this  "},{"startTime":283.88,"endTime":290.4,"body":"checklist but it's this transformation process. "},{"startTime":283.88,"endTime":290.4,"body":"It's about my becoming and so with me, like it's  "},{"startTime":290.4,"endTime":297.12,"body":"a daily battle to resist anti-Blackness within "},{"startTime":290.4,"endTime":297.12,"body":"myself and so I gave myself grace, but meanwhile  "},{"startTime":297.12,"endTime":302.04,"body":"I also continue to do the hard, uncomfortable "},{"startTime":297.12,"endTime":302.04,"body":"introspection that's necessary when I see it  "},{"startTime":302.04,"endTime":308.4,"body":"pop up within myself. So when I can begin to see "},{"startTime":302.04,"endTime":308.4,"body":"it within myself more readily then I can see it  "},{"startTime":308.4,"endTime":313.24,"body":"outside. So I've looked in that mirror, I've "},{"startTime":308.4,"endTime":313.24,"body":"gained some insight, and that has improved my  "},{"startTime":313.24,"endTime":318.32,"body":"quote unquote eyesight if you will so that I "},{"startTime":313.24,"endTime":318.32,"body":"can see it outside of me more readily. So  "},{"startTime":318.32,"endTime":323.84,"body":"I can then be more open and solicit feedback from "},{"startTime":318.32,"endTime":323.84,"body":"others during those times when maybe I don't see  "},{"startTime":323.84,"endTime":330.88,"body":"it and so that's kind of the why and a little "},{"startTime":323.84,"endTime":330.88,"body":"bit about the how. Wow, that's great and there's a lot  "},{"startTime":330.88,"endTime":337.36,"body":"there to analyze, right, or to think about from "},{"startTime":330.88,"endTime":337.36,"body":"a perspective of an educator in nursing. I think  "},{"startTime":337.36,"endTime":345.12,"body":"all of us, depending on our frame of reference, our "},{"startTime":337.36,"endTime":345.12,"body":"upbringing, our where we're at in our process of  "},{"startTime":345.12,"endTime":352.24,"body":"education, whether we're a novice or experienced, "},{"startTime":345.12,"endTime":352.24,"body":"all fall along this continuum of"},{"startTime":352.24,"endTime":359.88,"body":"self-reflection, self-analysis, understanding, you "},{"startTime":352.24,"endTime":359.88,"body":"know your place in the world and how it came  "},{"startTime":359.88,"endTime":365.56,"body":"to be and how your experience is different, so "},{"startTime":359.88,"endTime":365.56,"body":"different than many other people's experiences. But  "},{"startTime":365.56,"endTime":371.92,"body":"we tend to view it through a certain lens like "},{"startTime":365.56,"endTime":371.92,"body":"you mentioned, right, this kind of normalized lens  "},{"startTime":371.92,"endTime":378.76,"body":"of white culture and how that affects everything "},{"startTime":371.92,"endTime":378.76,"body":"we do in the classroom and subconsciously for many  "},{"startTime":378.76,"endTime":384.84,"body":"people, unless you learn how to "},{"startTime":378.76,"endTime":384.84,"body":"to recognize it, which kind of brings me to the  "},{"startTime":384.84,"endTime":389.84,"body":"next question, and how does a nurse "},{"startTime":384.84,"endTime":389.84,"body":"educator and I've had experiences as in the  "},{"startTime":389.84,"endTime":394.92,"body":"past as a novice educator where I did it very "},{"startTime":389.84,"endTime":394.92,"body":"poorly and an experienced educator where I did  "},{"startTime":394.92,"endTime":399.68,"body":"it better of course not you know in a perfect "},{"startTime":394.92,"endTime":399.68,"body":"way, but I've done it better, but how does the  "},{"startTime":399.68,"endTime":404.28,"body":"nurse educator start this process of "},{"startTime":399.68,"endTime":404.28,"body":"examining their own, let's say you have a course  "},{"startTime":404.28,"endTime":408.24,"body":"that you've taken on or you've been teaching for "},{"startTime":404.28,"endTime":408.24,"body":"a while, you know opportunities to implement and  "},{"startTime":408.24,"endTime":413.12,"body":"strategies of encountering, reflecting, discussing, "},{"startTime":408.24,"endTime":413.12,"body":"and taking action which was the framework  "},{"startTime":413.12,"endTime":417.44,"body":"you used in your article when discussing "},{"startTime":413.12,"endTime":417.44,"body":"anti-racist teaching in the context of their  "},{"startTime":417.44,"endTime":426.12,"body":"course. Yeah, I think so it sort of dovetails into "},{"startTime":417.44,"endTime":426.12,"body":"the first question. So when I start that process  "},{"startTime":426.12,"endTime":432.56,"body":"of introspecting and reflecting I'm going to see "},{"startTime":426.12,"endTime":432.56,"body":"my world differently, so my frame starts to shift  "},{"startTime":432.56,"endTime":438.12,"body":"and change and so I start to view my curricula, "},{"startTime":432.56,"endTime":438.12,"body":"I start to view my teaching strategies, I start to  "},{"startTime":438.12,"endTime":444.16,"body":"even view my interactions within the classroom "},{"startTime":438.12,"endTime":444.16,"body":"differently. I would also say that students are  "},{"startTime":444.16,"endTime":452.36,"body":"a great repository of ideas. I think they are so "},{"startTime":444.16,"endTime":452.36,"body":"ready for this and are waiting on us as faculty to  "},{"startTime":452.36,"endTime":458.56,"body":"hop on board so soliciting and talking with them, "},{"startTime":452.36,"endTime":458.56,"body":"how can you even like relinquishing some of that  "},{"startTime":458.56,"endTime":463.6,"body":"power is an anti-racist strategy, dismantling that "},{"startTime":458.56,"endTime":463.6,"body":"hierarchy within the classroom space that I talk  "},{"startTime":463.6,"endTime":470.08,"body":"about, we talk about in the article. So co-creating "},{"startTime":463.6,"endTime":470.08,"body":"some assignments like they are often aware and  "},{"startTime":470.08,"endTime":475.8,"body":"they're doing community work, community activism."},{"startTime":470.08,"endTime":475.8,"body":"What are they aware of? What are those local issues  "},{"startTime":475.8,"endTime":481.08,"body":"that maybe they're aware of that you're not? Who "},{"startTime":475.8,"endTime":481.08,"body":"can we partner with within the community? What  "},{"startTime":481.08,"endTime":486.0,"body":"are the needs that are there that the students can "},{"startTime":481.08,"endTime":486.0,"body":"galvanize around to take action? I mean there's so  "},{"startTime":486.0,"endTime":491.8,"body":"like that is the role of the university to "},{"startTime":486.0,"endTime":491.8,"body":"improve the health, the wellness, the well-being  "},{"startTime":491.8,"endTime":496.92,"body":"of the communities within which we find ourselves. "},{"startTime":491.8,"endTime":496.92,"body":"It's not just about knowledge generation for the  "},{"startTime":496.92,"endTime":503.32,"body":"sake of, but in the service of, and so how do we "},{"startTime":496.92,"endTime":503.32,"body":"truly partner with? But there are some taken for  "},{"startTime":503.32,"endTime":507.64,"body":"granted assumptions that have to be addressed when "},{"startTime":503.32,"endTime":507.64,"body":"we're working with community members. So how do we  "},{"startTime":507.64,"endTime":511.84,"body":"help our students privilege the knowledge and the "},{"startTime":507.64,"endTime":511.84,"body":"experience that the community members are bringing  "},{"startTime":511.84,"endTime":517.68,"body":"to the table? It's not just me, I've read "},{"startTime":511.84,"endTime":517.68,"body":"all this stuff in an article or in a book and so  "},{"startTime":517.68,"endTime":523.04,"body":"I know what's best, but understanding from the "},{"startTime":517.68,"endTime":523.04,"body":"get-go that communities typically already know  "},{"startTime":523.04,"endTime":529.12,"body":"what they need and so they don't need us to swoop "},{"startTime":523.04,"endTime":529.12,"body":"in and tell them. A matter of access to  "},{"startTime":529.12,"endTime":534.92,"body":"power and resources - that's the issue, not access "},{"startTime":529.12,"endTime":534.92,"body":"to knowledge and experience. And so how do we  "},{"startTime":534.92,"endTime":539.96,"body":"again come alongside communities as co-learners "},{"startTime":534.92,"endTime":539.96,"body":"and co-laborers? So we're role modeling that  "},{"startTime":539.96,"endTime":545.08,"body":"for our students within the classroom space and "},{"startTime":539.96,"endTime":545.08,"body":"then taking them out into the community and  "},{"startTime":545.08,"endTime":550.84,"body":"then often in nursing we're good about teaching "},{"startTime":545.08,"endTime":550.84,"body":"the what, kind of the statistics, the stats, but we  "},{"startTime":550.84,"endTime":556.48,"body":"neglect the how and the why. So how did this "},{"startTime":550.84,"endTime":556.48,"body":"certain inequity come to be? What's the  "},{"startTime":556.48,"endTime":562.84,"body":"historic policy or law that might have been the "},{"startTime":556.48,"endTime":562.84,"body":"initial historical insult that led us here?   "},{"startTime":562.84,"endTime":567.12,"body":"One of the classes I taught, a graduate elective, it "},{"startTime":562.84,"endTime":567.12,"body":"was called Race, Power, Privilege and Health and  "},{"startTime":567.12,"endTime":572.08,"body":"we had an assignment it was called throughline "},{"startTime":567.12,"endTime":572.08,"body":"and I got it from the NPR Podcast Throughline,  "},{"startTime":572.08,"endTime":576.6,"body":"where they take a contemporary issue and sort of "},{"startTime":572.08,"endTime":576.6,"body":"trace it back through time like how do we get here?  "},{"startTime":576.6,"endTime":582.32,"body":"And so thinking about that like how did we come "},{"startTime":576.6,"endTime":582.32,"body":"to these disproportionate rates of asthma within  "},{"startTime":582.32,"endTime":587.88,"body":"the Black area of town. I love that idea. Within the "},{"startTime":582.32,"endTime":587.88,"body":"city where you are well. Let's trace it back. So you  "},{"startTime":587.88,"endTime":594.64,"body":"know, in 1928, 1929 Austin had a city plan and they "},{"startTime":587.88,"endTime":594.64,"body":"intentionally placed all of the Black  "},{"startTime":594.64,"endTime":599.68,"body":"and brown folks on a certain part of the city. So "},{"startTime":594.64,"endTime":599.68,"body":"how do we how do we trace that? Thinking about the  "},{"startTime":599.68,"endTime":605.8,"body":"why this happened and the how it continues and so "},{"startTime":599.68,"endTime":605.8,"body":"that kind of it takes, it gives some more context  "},{"startTime":605.8,"endTime":611.52,"body":"to it and then also thinking about the biases, the "},{"startTime":605.8,"endTime":611.52,"body":"assumptions, the stereotypes about this population.  "},{"startTime":611.52,"endTime":617.88,"body":"Where do those come from? Why "},{"startTime":611.52,"endTime":617.88,"body":"do I have them? Why do they persist and what are  "},{"startTime":617.88,"endTime":623.2,"body":"the consequences of that? You mentioned we "},{"startTime":617.88,"endTime":623.2,"body":"go into to health care because we want to care  "},{"startTime":623.2,"endTime":629.16,"body":"and we have this caring ethos and this identity "},{"startTime":623.2,"endTime":629.16,"body":"and so realizing that we can care and we can also  "},{"startTime":629.16,"endTime":635.08,"body":"perpetuate harm like those two things can coexist. "},{"startTime":629.16,"endTime":635.08,"body":"So helping our learners kind of become okay with  "},{"startTime":635.08,"endTime":642.08,"body":"the complexity of that, we've got to incorporate "},{"startTime":635.08,"endTime":642.08,"body":"more personal introspection and reflection  "},{"startTime":642.08,"endTime":648.64,"body":"and I think the shift to CBE there is a huge "},{"startTime":642.08,"endTime":648.64,"body":"emphasis on self-reflection and the metacognition  "},{"startTime":648.64,"endTime":654.68,"body":"piece. So I think that will help facilitate "},{"startTime":648.64,"endTime":654.68,"body":"this as well. I talk with my colleagues in social  "},{"startTime":654.68,"endTime":660.6,"body":"work and they are big about sort of situating "},{"startTime":654.68,"endTime":660.6,"body":"the practitioner as a part of the therapeutic  "},{"startTime":660.6,"endTime":665.08,"body":"equation and I think often times in nursing we "},{"startTime":660.6,"endTime":665.08,"body":"sort of pretend that we're just a part of the  "},{"startTime":665.08,"endTime":671.28,"body":"wall, we're just kind part of the backdrop and "},{"startTime":665.08,"endTime":671.28,"body":"we're not really impacting the encounter in  "},{"startTime":671.28,"endTime":677.04,"body":"substantial ways, but like we're bringing our own "},{"startTime":671.28,"endTime":677.04,"body":"stuff, you know, our own baggage of course, right  "},{"startTime":677.04,"endTime":683.88,"body":"into this own bias our own perspectives. Exactly "},{"startTime":677.04,"endTime":683.88,"body":"and I think Christine Tanner's kind of revision  "},{"startTime":683.88,"endTime":689.84,"body":"of her clinical judgment model takes that into "},{"startTime":683.88,"endTime":689.84,"body":"account too and so I think we're shifting, we're  "},{"startTime":689.84,"endTime":695.96,"body":"heading in these good directions but thinking "},{"startTime":689.84,"endTime":695.96,"body":"about encounters that we already have within  "},{"startTime":695.96,"endTime":701.84,"body":"our classes and how do we then pull and tease "},{"startTime":695.96,"endTime":701.84,"body":"out the systems and structures of oppression,  "},{"startTime":701.84,"endTime":707.48,"body":"racism being one. Reflect on those intentionally, "},{"startTime":701.84,"endTime":707.48,"body":"bring those into discussion and then how can we  "},{"startTime":707.48,"endTime":714.36,"body":"take action around them? That's great. I've "},{"startTime":707.48,"endTime":714.36,"body":"been using the framework of Raymond Wlodkowski  "},{"startTime":714.36,"endTime":721.12,"body":"and Margery Ginsburg for probably 15 to 20 years "},{"startTime":714.36,"endTime":721.12,"body":"now, which is about really about adult motivation  "},{"startTime":721.12,"endTime":728.24,"body":"through cultural responsiveness and they always start with you have  "},{"startTime":728.24,"endTime":732.52,"body":"to create this safe and inclusive environment "},{"startTime":728.24,"endTime":732.52,"body":"before any learning can take place and I've  "},{"startTime":732.52,"endTime":739.2,"body":"used that as part of my strategies always going "},{"startTime":732.52,"endTime":739.2,"body":"forward so thinking about that how do we create  "},{"startTime":739.2,"endTime":746.36,"body":"this kind of space for students and faculty "},{"startTime":739.2,"endTime":746.36,"body":"to feel, I mean you know you can't  "},{"startTime":746.36,"endTime":752.12,"body":"make everybody feel safe and not vulnerable, right? "},{"startTime":746.36,"endTime":752.12,"body":"But you can create an atmosphere where safety and  "},{"startTime":752.12,"endTime":759.32,"body":"and vulnerability are recognized in a way that "},{"startTime":752.12,"endTime":759.32,"body":"can make people feel more comfortable coming  "},{"startTime":759.32,"endTime":765.12,"body":"forward and having these type of discussions. Yeah "},{"startTime":759.32,"endTime":765.12,"body":"I'll have to look into that framework. It's  "},{"startTime":765.12,"endTime":770.08,"body":"really, yeah, I would recommend it. It's really "},{"startTime":765.12,"endTime":770.08,"body":"great. They do great work. I think when we  "},{"startTime":770.08,"endTime":776.96,"body":"think about safe space so it depends like largely "},{"startTime":770.08,"endTime":776.96,"body":"on how we define and consider safety like safe for  "},{"startTime":776.96,"endTime":782.56,"body":"whom? So often when conversations about classroom "},{"startTime":776.96,"endTime":782.56,"body":"safety especially as it relates to conversations  "},{"startTime":782.56,"endTime":788.8,"body":"about race oftentimes the safety of the white "},{"startTime":782.56,"endTime":788.8,"body":"students is what centered and so we have to be  "},{"startTime":788.8,"endTime":794.8,"body":"mindful and intentional about centering the "},{"startTime":788.8,"endTime":794.8,"body":"margins so sometimes safety and comfort are  "},{"startTime":794.8,"endTime":801.84,"body":"conflated and learning new things is inherently "},{"startTime":794.8,"endTime":801.84,"body":"uncomfortable so it upsets something that  "},{"startTime":801.84,"endTime":808.28,"body":"we held to be true and sometimes it refutes "},{"startTime":801.84,"endTime":808.28,"body":"or negates things that we thought to be so and  "},{"startTime":808.28,"endTime":813.64,"body":"turns them on their head. And so I'm thinking "},{"startTime":808.28,"endTime":813.64,"body":"about this book that I bought for my son, Lies  "},{"startTime":813.64,"endTime":821.28,"body":"My Teacher told Me. It just is "},{"startTime":813.64,"endTime":821.28,"body":"unsettling and so I have to think about that, "},{"startTime":821.28,"endTime":827.2,"body":"how the things that maybe I think I should "},{"startTime":821.28,"endTime":827.2,"body":"have known, especially as a Black person like when  "},{"startTime":827.2,"endTime":832.64,"body":"I learned things about racism. It's like, why didn't "},{"startTime":827.2,"endTime":832.64,"body":"I know that? And so that can be unsettling and  "},{"startTime":832.64,"endTime":839.12,"body":"uncomfortable but I think about the article by "},{"startTime":832.64,"endTime":839.12,"body":"Clemens and Arai that talk about brave spaces  "},{"startTime":839.12,"endTime":845.8,"body":"rather than safe spaces and so our organizations "},{"startTime":839.12,"endTime":845.8,"body":"and hence our classrooms are not race neutral.   "},{"startTime":845.8,"endTime":849.8,"body":"So we should not presume that they're safe "},{"startTime":845.8,"endTime":849.8,"body":"for all learners or really all faculty for  "},{"startTime":849.8,"endTime":857.28,"body":"that matter who are racialized as Black or brown "},{"startTime":849.8,"endTime":857.28,"body":"or really lots of marginalized identities and so  "},{"startTime":857.28,"endTime":865.2,"body":"I think when we talk about centering the margins, "},{"startTime":857.28,"endTime":865.2,"body":"if you're not sure like to ask so creating  "},{"startTime":865.2,"endTime":871.12,"body":"anonymous polling. Stephen Brookfield has this "},{"startTime":865.2,"endTime":871.12,"body":"critical questionnaire is a good way to think  "},{"startTime":871.12,"endTime":877.04,"body":"about asking those questions to make sure again, "},{"startTime":871.12,"endTime":877.04,"body":"because I'm coming in with my view, my frame,  "},{"startTime":877.04,"endTime":881.48,"body":"my thinking and I'm thinking everything is good, "},{"startTime":877.04,"endTime":881.48,"body":"but I've got students who are coming in with lots  "},{"startTime":881.48,"endTime":887.72,"body":"of different identities and it may not be so "},{"startTime":881.48,"endTime":887.72,"body":"good and so unless I ask, I may not know and so  "},{"startTime":887.72,"endTime":892.36,"body":"anonymous polling is a good way to do that. Again, "},{"startTime":887.72,"endTime":892.36,"body":"that critical questionnaire to ask at the end of  "},{"startTime":892.36,"endTime":898.32,"body":"each class but it doesn't even have to be"},{"startTime":892.36,"endTime":898.32,"body":"super formalized. I've done check-ins as a  "},{"startTime":898.32,"endTime":904.04,"body":"way of building community. I think that's another "},{"startTime":898.32,"endTime":904.04,"body":"huge tenant of anti-racist practice is building  "},{"startTime":904.04,"endTime":910.72,"body":"community. We within our capitalist society "},{"startTime":904.04,"endTime":910.72,"body":"or competition and it's about that piece and  "},{"startTime":910.72,"endTime":915.96,"body":"sometimes students come into nursing school "},{"startTime":910.72,"endTime":915.96,"body":"with that competitive sort of nature within  "},{"startTime":915.96,"endTime":921.56,"body":"them so unless we are intentional about building "},{"startTime":915.96,"endTime":921.56,"body":"community and helping us see that we are stronger  "},{"startTime":921.56,"endTime":926.12,"body":"together and so that is checking in with "},{"startTime":921.56,"endTime":926.12,"body":"each other at the beginning of class. How  "},{"startTime":926.12,"endTime":932.36,"body":"are folks doing is just simple, easy way to do "},{"startTime":926.12,"endTime":932.36,"body":"that. That time that you have when we are  "},{"startTime":932.36,"endTime":937.56,"body":"face to face at the lectern at the end "},{"startTime":932.36,"endTime":937.56,"body":"so letting students know I'm here for you  "},{"startTime":937.56,"endTime":943.08,"body":"during break, kind of just checking in and "},{"startTime":937.56,"endTime":943.08,"body":"asking them how they're doing with life outside of  "},{"startTime":943.08,"endTime":951.72,"body":"class is a good way that they know that you care "},{"startTime":943.08,"endTime":951.72,"body":"about them. Again, this is not the default so  "},{"startTime":951.72,"endTime":957.28,"body":"being intentional, ice breakers, introductory "},{"startTime":951.72,"endTime":957.28,"body":"discussion boards where you have a video  "},{"startTime":957.28,"endTime":964.52,"body":"of yourself as the instructor sharing yourself, "},{"startTime":957.28,"endTime":964.52,"body":"role modeling, transparency, vulnerability.  "},{"startTime":964.52,"endTime":970.12,"body":"As vulnerable as I'm willing to be is generally "},{"startTime":964.52,"endTime":970.12,"body":"the tone that the students will take. They'll match  "},{"startTime":970.12,"endTime":975.68,"body":"me, so I think about bell hooks like us "},{"startTime":970.12,"endTime":975.68,"body":"not expecting students to do and to go where we're  "},{"startTime":975.68,"endTime":984.48,"body":"not willing to go ourselves. So, so much of what "},{"startTime":975.68,"endTime":984.48,"body":"I do as a faculty it reminds me of parenting and  "},{"startTime":984.48,"endTime":989.96,"body":"I had this moment when I was a clinical instructor. "},{"startTime":984.48,"endTime":989.96,"body":"I would just grab a bag of salad because it was  "},{"startTime":989.96,"endTime":995.36,"body":"easy and quick on my way out the door and "},{"startTime":989.96,"endTime":995.36,"body":"I would eat salad with my students for lunch and I  "},{"startTime":995.36,"endTime":1000.32,"body":"remember the students remarking about, oh you"},{"startTime":995.36,"endTime":1000.32,"body":"eat so healthy and I'm thinking I didn't even  "},{"startTime":1000.32,"endTime":1005.68,"body":"know y'all were looking at what I was eating, "},{"startTime":1000.32,"endTime":1005.68,"body":"right? But the power of just our actions and  "},{"startTime":1005.68,"endTime":1011.92,"body":"role modeling what is that what message does that "},{"startTime":1005.68,"endTime":1011.92,"body":"send to students and so we are teaching by what  "},{"startTime":1011.92,"endTime":1017.24,"body":"we say we're teaching by what we don't say when "},{"startTime":1011.92,"endTime":1017.24,"body":"we ignore and kind of go over conversations like  "},{"startTime":1017.24,"endTime":1022.6,"body":"a bump in the road and don't address issues when "},{"startTime":1017.24,"endTime":1022.6,"body":"they come up in the moment. We're role modeling by  "},{"startTime":1022.6,"endTime":1028.76,"body":"what we do and what we don't do and so again "},{"startTime":1022.6,"endTime":1028.76,"body":"I think creating a community agreement at the  "},{"startTime":1028.76,"endTime":1034.6,"body":"beginning of class is a good way to sort of have "},{"startTime":1028.76,"endTime":1034.6,"body":"these conversations and to be explicit. What  "},{"startTime":1034.6,"endTime":1040.44,"body":"do students perceive as respectful, disrespectful? "},{"startTime":1034.6,"endTime":1040.44,"body":"It may be very different from what I as a faculty  "},{"startTime":1040.44,"endTime":1045.76,"body":"think and so let's put that out there. What do we "},{"startTime":1040.44,"endTime":1045.76,"body":"hope gets accomplished within our time together?  "},{"startTime":1045.76,"endTime":1051.24,"body":"What are we afraid of happening? How do we "},{"startTime":1045.76,"endTime":1051.24,"body":"create a community agreement so that we ensure  "},{"startTime":1051.24,"endTime":1056.08,"body":"that our hopes are actualized and our fears are "},{"startTime":1051.24,"endTime":1056.08,"body":"minimized and then holding each other accountable  "},{"startTime":1056.08,"endTime":1061.6,"body":"to that each time we meet is a good way. That's "},{"startTime":1056.08,"endTime":1061.6,"body":"something I've done in in classes as well as with  "},{"startTime":1061.6,"endTime":1070.48,"body":"faculty within book clubs. Another sort of "},{"startTime":1061.6,"endTime":1070.48,"body":"way of building community is social annotation.  "},{"startTime":1070.48,"endTime":1075.16,"body":"I've used Hypothesis, but there are lots of "},{"startTime":1070.48,"endTime":1075.16,"body":"different platforms out there but just ways  "},{"startTime":1075.16,"endTime":1082.16,"body":"to help students to get inside of each other. "},{"startTime":1075.16,"endTime":1082.16,"body":"Curiosity I think is this...I keep coming back  "},{"startTime":1082.16,"endTime":1089.24,"body":"to in all of my readings it is this lost kind of "},{"startTime":1082.16,"endTime":1089.24,"body":"dying art within our society at large but just  "},{"startTime":1089.24,"endTime":1094.16,"body":"becoming curious about one another's thinking. Not "},{"startTime":1089.24,"endTime":1094.16,"body":"trying to prove a point, not try trying to win an  "},{"startTime":1094.16,"endTime":1100.28,"body":"argument, but truly trying to understand and become "},{"startTime":1094.16,"endTime":1100.28,"body":"curious about what one another is thinking and so  "},{"startTime":1100.28,"endTime":1105.96,"body":"social annotation can help with that as well. I'm "},{"startTime":1100.28,"endTime":1105.96,"body":"not sure if I even answered the question. I think  "},{"startTime":1105.96,"endTime":1111.28,"body":"you answered it. I think you gave us a lot to think "},{"startTime":1105.96,"endTime":1111.28,"body":"about, right, and I hear   "},{"startTime":1111.28,"endTime":1114.96,"body":"we do a lot of thinking or talk about doing a "},{"startTime":1111.28,"endTime":1114.96,"body":"lot of thinking but we really need to start moving  "},{"startTime":1114.96,"endTime":1121.6,"body":"to action. These discussions have "},{"startTime":1114.96,"endTime":1121.6,"body":"been around a long time and are we moving  "},{"startTime":1121.6,"endTime":1128.04,"body":"the needle forward it seems, but I think the "},{"startTime":1121.6,"endTime":1128.04,"body":"action piece is where people get stuck."},{"startTime":1128.04,"endTime":1132.64,"body":"The discussion piece is the easier part amongst "},{"startTime":1128.04,"endTime":1132.64,"body":"each other, but then moving forward and what do  "},{"startTime":1132.64,"endTime":1140.08,"body":"you actually do is what becomes difficult for "},{"startTime":1132.64,"endTime":1140.08,"body":"most educators. And I also add to that.  "},{"startTime":1140.08,"endTime":1147.6,"body":"So Glenn Singleton in his creative conversations "},{"startTime":1140.08,"endTime":1147.6,"body":"about race he uses this compass to sort of locate  "},{"startTime":1147.6,"endTime":1152.84,"body":"yourself within conversations about race and "},{"startTime":1147.6,"endTime":1152.84,"body":"so it's divided into four quadrants and on the  "},{"startTime":1152.84,"endTime":1159.64,"body":"left side there is kind of the moral or the "},{"startTime":1152.84,"endTime":1159.64,"body":"beliefs that you have and on the left bottom it  "},{"startTime":1159.64,"endTime":1165.6,"body":"is the affective or the feeling then on the right "},{"startTime":1159.64,"endTime":1165.6,"body":"side it's the thinking or the head quadrant and  "},{"startTime":1165.6,"endTime":1171.32,"body":"then on the right at the bottom it's the do "},{"startTime":1165.6,"endTime":1171.32,"body":"and so I think within the academic space we spend  "},{"startTime":1171.32,"endTime":1177.56,"body":"a lot of time thinking and then doing"},{"startTime":1171.32,"endTime":1177.56,"body":"within conversations about racism there is often  "},{"startTime":1177.56,"endTime":1183.16,"body":"a like oh, this is a problem, this is really bad. "},{"startTime":1177.56,"endTime":1183.16,"body":"Okay, what can I do? And there is a rush to action  "},{"startTime":1183.16,"endTime":1189.8,"body":"which it needs to happen, however, I think we "},{"startTime":1183.16,"endTime":1189.8,"body":"don't necessarily spend enough time on the left  "},{"startTime":1189.8,"endTime":1196.68,"body":"side of that quadrant examining our feelings, "},{"startTime":1189.8,"endTime":1196.68,"body":"the affect, the emotion especially as these  "},{"startTime":1196.68,"endTime":1202.92,"body":"conversations can generate. And"},{"startTime":1196.68,"endTime":1202.92,"body":"that's data. We have emotions for a reason. Often  "},{"startTime":1202.92,"endTime":1207.56,"body":"time I think they're seen as pejorative within "},{"startTime":1202.92,"endTime":1207.56,"body":"the academic space but that is our compass,  "},{"startTime":1207.56,"endTime":1212.8,"body":"that is what kind of guides us in terms of ethics "},{"startTime":1207.56,"endTime":1212.8,"body":"and what is right, what is wrong. So how do we teach  "},{"startTime":1212.8,"endTime":1218.92,"body":"students? How do we teach ourselves to be in tune "},{"startTime":1212.8,"endTime":1218.92,"body":"like when my heartbeat starts to elevate.  "},{"startTime":1218.92,"endTime":1224.24,"body":"Why did that happen? Why did I flush? Why did my "},{"startTime":1218.92,"endTime":1224.24,"body":"breathing just get shallow? What's happening here?  "},{"startTime":1224.24,"endTime":1230.0,"body":"Why am I experiencing this way right now?"},{"startTime":1224.24,"endTime":1230.0,"body":"And then leaning into that. What does that tell me  "},{"startTime":1230.0,"endTime":1235.56,"body":"about my morals and my beliefs about  "},{"startTime":1230.0,"endTime":1235.56,"body":"a certain group of people, a certain population?  "},{"startTime":1235.56,"endTime":1241.32,"body":"Where did that come from? And so I think spending "},{"startTime":1235.56,"endTime":1241.32,"body":"some time interrogating that intentionally,"},{"startTime":1241.32,"endTime":1249.92,"body":"the pedagogy of just the affective is huge "},{"startTime":1241.32,"endTime":1249.92,"body":"and then helping sit with that, those uncomfortable  "},{"startTime":1249.92,"endTime":1256.28,"body":"emotions can inform our actions a little bit "},{"startTime":1249.92,"endTime":1256.28,"body":"so that we don't rush and then end up causing  "},{"startTime":1256.28,"endTime":1262.64,"body":"more harm than good because I've seen that from "},{"startTime":1256.28,"endTime":1262.64,"body":"well-intended people. Well, I want to thank you for  "},{"startTime":1262.64,"endTime":1268.08,"body":"joining us this is a great important conversation. "},{"startTime":1262.64,"endTime":1268.08,"body":"I appreciate your time and the expertise you  "},{"startTime":1268.08,"endTime":1272.8,"body":"brought to the conversation and broadening our "},{"startTime":1268.08,"endTime":1272.8,"body":"understanding of this work and how we can even  "},{"startTime":1272.8,"endTime":1279.2,"body":"just think about more intentionally introducing "},{"startTime":1272.8,"endTime":1279.2,"body":"this into our specific classroom our course and  "},{"startTime":1279.2,"endTime":1285.12,"body":"at the very least, for those who may not have any "},{"startTime":1279.2,"endTime":1285.12,"body":"experience, start getting them thinking about"},{"startTime":1285.12,"endTime":1292.72,"body":"how we can do this in the classroom. So "},{"startTime":1285.12,"endTime":1292.72,"body":"for that, we really appreciate it. To our listeners,  "},{"startTime":1292.72,"endTime":1296.72,"body":"if you have not had the opportunity to read "},{"startTime":1292.72,"endTime":1296.72,"body":"about this work, you will find the manuscript  "},{"startTime":1296.72,"endTime":1301.64,"body":"published in Nursing Education Perspectives "},{"startTime":1296.72,"endTime":1301.64,"body":"and you'll find it in our current special issue, "},{"startTime":1301.64,"endTime":1306.208,"body":"this September October issue and I want to thank "},{"startTime":1301.64,"endTime":1306.208,"body":"you again for joining us."},{"startTime":1306.208,"endTime":1309.25,"body":"Absolutely. It was my pleasure."}]}