{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":35.946,"endTime":36.4,"body":"[Music]"},{"startTime":36.4,"endTime":41.56,"body":"So welcome to this episode of NLN podcast "},{"startTime":36.4,"endTime":41.56,"body":"Nursing EDge Unscripted. I'm your host, Dr.  "},{"startTime":41.56,"endTime":48.32,"body":"Steven Palazzo, a member of the editorial board of "},{"startTime":41.56,"endTime":48.32,"body":"Nursing Education Perspectives. In this episode,  "},{"startTime":48.32,"endTime":54.4,"body":"we will discuss the effects of simulation on "},{"startTime":48.32,"endTime":54.4,"body":"nursing students ethnocultural empathy. My guest  "},{"startTime":54.4,"endTime":60.36,"body":"today is Dr. Fabiola Lalande, an associate "},{"startTime":54.4,"endTime":60.36,"body":"professor at the Richard and Sheila Young  "},{"startTime":60.36,"endTime":66.92,"body":"School of Nursing at Regis College in Weston, "},{"startTime":60.36,"endTime":66.92,"body":"Massachusetts. We will discuss their article,  "},{"startTime":66.92,"endTime":72.56,"body":"\"The Effects of Reverse Role Simulation on Nursing "},{"startTime":66.92,"endTime":72.56,"body":"Students Ethnocultural Empathy, A Quantitative  "},{"startTime":72.56,"endTime":78.52,"body":"Study.\" This article can be found in the current "},{"startTime":72.56,"endTime":78.52,"body":"November December issue of Nursing Education  "},{"startTime":78.52,"endTime":85.64,"body":"Perspectives. So I'd like to welcome our guest "},{"startTime":78.52,"endTime":85.64,"body":"today, Dr. Lalande. How are you? I'm good, well  "},{"startTime":85.64,"endTime":89.6,"body":"thank you for having me here today. You're welcome. "},{"startTime":85.64,"endTime":89.6,"body":"We're absolutely pleased to have a discussion with  "},{"startTime":89.6,"endTime":95.56,"body":"you. Could you briefly start out by describing your "},{"startTime":89.6,"endTime":95.56,"body":"study and the scale of ethnocultural empathy that  "},{"startTime":95.56,"endTime":102.88,"body":"you use to measure your outcome variables? Sure. To "},{"startTime":95.56,"endTime":102.88,"body":"to really explain this study, I would have to give  "},{"startTime":102.88,"endTime":109.88,"body":"you a little bit of a background about how that "},{"startTime":102.88,"endTime":109.88,"body":"study came and the idea of studying new ways of  "},{"startTime":109.88,"endTime":114.44,"body":"teaching cultural competence is something I "},{"startTime":109.88,"endTime":114.44,"body":"have been thinking about for a little while.  "},{"startTime":114.44,"endTime":119.84,"body":"And as an immigrant, you can notice by my accent, "},{"startTime":114.44,"endTime":119.84,"body":"I've been always bothered with the discrepancies  "},{"startTime":120.4,"endTime":126.8,"body":"in health and health care services that "},{"startTime":120.4,"endTime":126.8,"body":"minorities experience. And as a nurse educator,  "},{"startTime":126.8,"endTime":134.64,"body":"I really couldn't understand why we can't really "},{"startTime":126.8,"endTime":134.64,"body":"fill that gap and that even though we are putting  "},{"startTime":134.64,"endTime":140.72,"body":"so much effort into teaching cultural competency "},{"startTime":134.64,"endTime":140.72,"body":"in nursing education we still haven't reached the  "},{"startTime":140.72,"endTime":149.88,"body":"goal. And what is it that we are missing, right. So "},{"startTime":140.72,"endTime":149.88,"body":"as I was really diving more into the subject and  "},{"startTime":149.88,"endTime":155.12,"body":"end up coming across multiple articles saying "},{"startTime":149.88,"endTime":155.12,"body":"that when you ask a health care provider what  "},{"startTime":155.12,"endTime":160.64,"body":"is cultural competence and they would talk "},{"startTime":155.12,"endTime":160.64,"body":"about knowing norms and customs of specific  "},{"startTime":160.64,"endTime":166.72,"body":"culturally diverse groups, and but when you ask "},{"startTime":160.64,"endTime":166.72,"body":"that for the patients themselves, they would  "},{"startTime":166.72,"endTime":171.88,"body":"talk a lot about the attitude of the health "},{"startTime":166.72,"endTime":171.88,"body":"care providers. So that was really what I was  "},{"startTime":171.88,"endTime":177.44,"body":"thinking, maybe that's what's missing. We are not "},{"startTime":171.88,"endTime":177.44,"body":"really teaching changes in attitude and empathy  "},{"startTime":177.44,"endTime":184.2,"body":"for these patients, because...for these students, "},{"startTime":177.44,"endTime":184.2,"body":"I'm sorry, because we are focused on teaching  "},{"startTime":184.2,"endTime":191.52,"body":"them norms and customs of different specific "},{"startTime":184.2,"endTime":191.52,"body":"groups and that's not really helpful. That's not  "},{"startTime":191.52,"endTime":198.72,"body":"what the patients are looking for. And with that "},{"startTime":191.52,"endTime":198.72,"body":"being said, patients have always mentioned empathy,  "},{"startTime":198.72,"endTime":204.64,"body":"empathetic care. And I was thinking how can we "},{"startTime":198.72,"endTime":204.64,"body":"teach that in nursing school. That's such a hard  "},{"startTime":204.64,"endTime":212.36,"body":"thing to teach, right, to help students develop. "},{"startTime":204.64,"endTime":212.36,"body":"And that's how I thought about coming up with  "},{"startTime":212.36,"endTime":219.6,"body":"this reverse role simulation because we know that "},{"startTime":212.36,"endTime":219.6,"body":"empathy is also, it's a innate trait, but it's also  "},{"startTime":219.6,"endTime":227.4,"body":"a skill that can be trained and enhanced with "},{"startTime":219.6,"endTime":227.4,"body":"practice and but to have that happen, you have  "},{"startTime":227.4,"endTime":233.2,"body":"to either have a a strong connection with the "},{"startTime":227.4,"endTime":233.2,"body":"person, like a mom watching a baby crying, she  "},{"startTime":233.2,"endTime":241.16,"body":"will feel that pain or have experienced that thing "},{"startTime":233.2,"endTime":241.16,"body":"yourself, that situation. For example, if you watch  "},{"startTime":241.16,"endTime":246.0,"body":"somebody getting hit in the nose and you can feel "},{"startTime":241.16,"endTime":246.0,"body":"their pain, right, so you need to experience that  "},{"startTime":246.0,"endTime":252.16,"body":"yourself. Doing the reverse role simulation would "},{"startTime":246.0,"endTime":252.16,"body":"put the patient in bed in the experience and the  "},{"startTime":252.16,"endTime":258.76,"body":"percept, the perspective of the patient and really "},{"startTime":252.16,"endTime":258.76,"body":"so they could feel how it feels to be in that  "},{"startTime":258.76,"endTime":264.68,"body":"situation and see if that would cause any change "},{"startTime":258.76,"endTime":264.68,"body":"in their ethnocultural empathy towards patients  "},{"startTime":264.68,"endTime":270.64,"body":"from different backgrounds. So that was the idea "},{"startTime":264.68,"endTime":270.64,"body":"behind this study. The study was really  "},{"startTime":270.64,"endTime":280.2,"body":"a pilot study where we would measure the students "},{"startTime":270.64,"endTime":280.2,"body":"empathy towards ethnically diverse patients. And   "},{"startTime":280.2,"endTime":286.36,"body":"we measured their empathy levels before and after "},{"startTime":280.2,"endTime":286.36,"body":"the simulation. The tool that we used to measure  "},{"startTime":286.36,"endTime":295.24,"body":"their empathy is called the Scale of Ethnocultural "},{"startTime":286.36,"endTime":295.24,"body":"Empathy by Dr. Wang. And that tool was designed  "},{"startTime":295.24,"endTime":301.8,"body":"to specifically measure individual's ability to "},{"startTime":295.24,"endTime":301.8,"body":"empathize with people from different ethnic and  "},{"startTime":301.8,"endTime":308.28,"body":"cultural backgrounds. More specifically, the scale is"},{"startTime":301.8,"endTime":308.28,"body":"divided into four subcategories and they  "},{"startTime":308.28,"endTime":316.52,"body":"will look into this person's ability to understand "},{"startTime":308.28,"endTime":316.52,"body":"shared feelings, respond to feelings, and experiences  "},{"startTime":316.52,"endTime":324.48,"body":"of individuals from diverse backgrounds. The the "},{"startTime":316.52,"endTime":324.48,"body":"study really showed that their empathy before  "},{"startTime":324.48,"endTime":332.92,"body":"and after the simulation had increased a lot and "},{"startTime":324.48,"endTime":332.92,"body":"that was very interesting to see. That's great. So  "},{"startTime":332.92,"endTime":338.2,"body":"tell us a little bit about how you the process "},{"startTime":332.92,"endTime":338.2,"body":"and how you created the role reversal simulation.  "},{"startTime":338.2,"endTime":341.88,"body":"And if you could speak to what were some of the "},{"startTime":338.2,"endTime":341.88,"body":"difficulties you encountered creating this type of  "},{"startTime":341.88,"endTime":353.32,"body":"simulation? Sure. Creating the simulation itself was "},{"startTime":341.88,"endTime":353.32,"body":"a challenge because I knew that to to really cause  "},{"startTime":353.32,"endTime":360.68,"body":"a change in empathy we would have to dive and make "},{"startTime":353.32,"endTime":360.68,"body":"a story that the students would really have that feel. "},{"startTime":360.68,"endTime":368.04,"body":"Right. And really feeling the patient's shoes. "},{"startTime":360.68,"endTime":368.04,"body":"And for that I would really have to tap in their  "},{"startTime":368.04,"endTime":374.24,"body":"effective learning, really get their emotions to "},{"startTime":368.04,"endTime":374.24,"body":"be flowing throughout the simulation. So reverse  "},{"startTime":374.24,"endTime":380.0,"body":"role simulation was a great way to start in the "},{"startTime":374.24,"endTime":380.0,"body":"reverse role simulation instead of the students  "},{"startTime":380.0,"endTime":384.04,"body":"who usually come to simulation thinking they're "},{"startTime":380.0,"endTime":384.04,"body":"going to be the nurse themselves they are placed  "},{"startTime":384.04,"endTime":392.64,"body":"in bed and say today you are the patient, right. "},{"startTime":384.04,"endTime":392.64,"body":"And you are receiving the care. And plotting the  "},{"startTime":392.64,"endTime":399.16,"body":"scenario was really the challenge because we "},{"startTime":392.64,"endTime":399.16,"body":"would like to immerse them, the students, into  "},{"startTime":399.16,"endTime":410.04,"body":"the patient perspective without really creating "},{"startTime":399.16,"endTime":410.04,"body":"any, trying to avoid creating any stigma, cultural  "},{"startTime":410.04,"endTime":419.64,"body":"stigma or stereotypes, right. So we needed to invent "},{"startTime":410.04,"endTime":419.64,"body":"a scenario where they would feel very unfamiliar  "},{"startTime":419.64,"endTime":425.64,"body":"with the care being provided to them and for that "},{"startTime":419.64,"endTime":425.64,"body":"we had to come up with fictional medications and  "},{"startTime":425.64,"endTime":433.16,"body":"we used fictional names for the medications. We had "},{"startTime":425.64,"endTime":433.16,"body":"a fictional medical approaches to treat a broken  "},{"startTime":433.16,"endTime":439.44,"body":"arm because in the scenario the patient... the "},{"startTime":433.16,"endTime":439.44,"body":"patient, which was the student, right, the student  "},{"startTime":439.44,"endTime":447.64,"body":"was hiking and the patient fell and woke up in "},{"startTime":439.44,"endTime":447.64,"body":"a hospital with a right arm pain. And they are  "},{"startTime":447.64,"endTime":453.36,"body":"receiving care, but the provider don't speak "},{"startTime":447.64,"endTime":453.36,"body":"the same language as them, the roles look different,  "},{"startTime":453.36,"endTime":458.76,"body":"the treatments are different, and they are trying "},{"startTime":453.36,"endTime":458.76,"body":"to communicate that they have an allergy, but the  "},{"startTime":458.76,"endTime":464.68,"body":"provider fully are not really grasping of what "},{"startTime":458.76,"endTime":464.68,"body":"they are trying to say. We are not providing  "},{"startTime":464.68,"endTime":471.12,"body":"any ways that they can get a translator at that "},{"startTime":464.68,"endTime":471.12,"body":"point. And just getting those feelings flourishing  "},{"startTime":471.12,"endTime":476.96,"body":"and having the students feel like the patients "},{"startTime":471.12,"endTime":476.96,"body":"actually feel when they are in that situation.  "},{"startTime":476.96,"endTime":483.52,"body":"And that was really I think the hardest part was "},{"startTime":476.96,"endTime":483.52,"body":"to put everything together. But then after that, I  "},{"startTime":483.52,"endTime":488.84,"body":"think everything flowed pretty well. It sounds like it."},{"startTime":483.52,"endTime":488.84,"body":"It sounds like a wonderful experience though, right,  "},{"startTime":488.84,"endTime":495.2,"body":"being in a situation that maybe many of us haven't "},{"startTime":488.84,"endTime":495.2,"body":"been in before and you know, like you said, tapping  "},{"startTime":495.2,"endTime":501.04,"body":"into that empathy and really understanding "},{"startTime":495.2,"endTime":501.04,"body":"the perspective of another person who may have  "},{"startTime":501.04,"endTime":506.0,"body":"a difference in communication, difference in "},{"startTime":501.04,"endTime":506.0,"body":"language, difference in culture, and you know like  "},{"startTime":506.0,"endTime":511.88,"body":"you said, being transported into a health care "},{"startTime":506.0,"endTime":511.88,"body":"environment that you're unfamiliar with, right.  "},{"startTime":511.88,"endTime":517.92,"body":"Right. And especially knowing that our workforce, "},{"startTime":511.88,"endTime":517.92,"body":"nursing workforce, is pretty homogeneous if you  "},{"startTime":517.92,"endTime":525.84,"body":"think of it. We don't have a lot of diverse within "},{"startTime":517.92,"endTime":525.84,"body":"nursing and giving that experience to our nursing  "},{"startTime":525.84,"endTime":531.64,"body":"students might create that needed shared experience "},{"startTime":525.84,"endTime":531.64,"body":"between the student and the patient so that when  "},{"startTime":531.64,"endTime":538.84,"body":"they are providing care they can feel what the "},{"startTime":531.64,"endTime":538.84,"body":"patient would feel like. Yeah, exactly. And how did  "},{"startTime":538.84,"endTime":547.48,"body":"the students respond to the simulations? Now that "},{"startTime":538.84,"endTime":547.48,"body":"is I think a very interesting question because of  "},{"startTime":547.48,"endTime":553.96,"body":"course, we use a very specific tool to measure "},{"startTime":547.48,"endTime":553.96,"body":"the level of empathy before and after, but I do  "},{"startTime":553.96,"endTime":559.92,"body":"think that the most interesting portion of this "},{"startTime":553.96,"endTime":559.92,"body":"study was not documented. It was really what they  "},{"startTime":559.92,"endTime":566.16,"body":"talked about in debriefing saying like how they "},{"startTime":559.92,"endTime":566.16,"body":"were fearful of the care that they were receiving  "},{"startTime":566.16,"endTime":570.64,"body":"and not because the nurse was mean or anything, "},{"startTime":566.16,"endTime":570.64,"body":"but because they couldn't trust that they knew  "},{"startTime":570.64,"endTime":576.4,"body":"that they had an allergy. Or that they knew what "},{"startTime":570.64,"endTime":576.4,"body":"the patient needed. And that was very interesting  "},{"startTime":576.4,"endTime":583.44,"body":"because, at that point, honestly, I was wishing I "},{"startTime":576.4,"endTime":583.44,"body":"did a qualitative study as well. But it was really  "},{"startTime":583.44,"endTime":589.08,"body":"a regret of mine of not going for a mixed study "},{"startTime":583.44,"endTime":589.08,"body":"instead but. Well, we don't know sometimes, right.  "},{"startTime":589.08,"endTime":593.16,"body":"And sometimes it's just you want to just get your "},{"startTime":589.08,"endTime":593.16,"body":"study through and it's easy to do a pre-test post- "},{"startTime":593.16,"endTime":597.2,"body":"test and if you don't make it too complicated "},{"startTime":593.16,"endTime":597.2,"body":"you can get it through and do the work and it  "},{"startTime":597.2,"endTime":600.64,"body":"gave you enough information, right. You said it's "},{"startTime":597.2,"endTime":600.64,"body":"a pilot study so it gave you enough information  "},{"startTime":600.64,"endTime":605.08,"body":"that you're thinking about those things like, oh, "},{"startTime":600.64,"endTime":605.08,"body":"I could do this again and ask questions and have  "},{"startTime":605.08,"endTime":609.08,"body":"more qualitative focus to it, because you know, as "},{"startTime":605.08,"endTime":609.08,"body":"we know ,debriefing is usually the really richest  "},{"startTime":609.08,"endTime":614.44,"body":"part of a simulation. Yeah. And a lot of stuff "},{"startTime":609.08,"endTime":614.44,"body":"comes out during a debrief that can be really  "},{"startTime":614.44,"endTime":620.72,"body":"rich. That's true. That's very true. And it was, "},{"startTime":614.44,"endTime":620.72,"body":"it was actually very interesting to hear how  "},{"startTime":620.72,"endTime":626.92,"body":"distrust came as one of the main things and "},{"startTime":620.72,"endTime":626.92,"body":"I didn't see that coming, you know, but then of  "},{"startTime":626.92,"endTime":631.24,"body":"course it makes sense. It does make sense, right. "},{"startTime":626.92,"endTime":631.24,"body":"Think about if I mean, I was trying to think if I  "},{"startTime":631.24,"endTime":636.68,"body":"go somewhere to a different country that I don't "},{"startTime":631.24,"endTime":636.68,"body":"know much about and I'm working and I become  "},{"startTime":636.68,"endTime":643.84,"body":"injured or ill and people are speaking to me in a "},{"startTime":636.68,"endTime":643.84,"body":"language I don't understand. I mean, when you don't  "},{"startTime":643.84,"endTime":648.28,"body":"understand what someone's saying, right, how do you "},{"startTime":643.84,"endTime":648.28,"body":"know that you're getting the care that you think  "},{"startTime":648.28,"endTime":654.6,"body":"you need or that they're not missing something? It has "},{"startTime":648.28,"endTime":654.6,"body":"nothing to do about their actual qualifications or  "},{"startTime":654.6,"endTime":659.8,"body":"expertise it's just that piece is missing, that "},{"startTime":654.6,"endTime":659.8,"body":"communication, where I know when I go somewhere  "},{"startTime":659.8,"endTime":663.84,"body":"here I can understand everything someone's "},{"startTime":659.8,"endTime":663.84,"body":"saying and I can understand what they're  "},{"startTime":663.84,"endTime":668.96,"body":"going to be doing and if there's something I can "},{"startTime":663.84,"endTime":668.96,"body":"advocate for myself because I understand what's  "},{"startTime":668.96,"endTime":674.76,"body":"being said. And if something's being missed, you "},{"startTime":668.96,"endTime":674.76,"body":"know, and you just don't know. Right. If you  "},{"startTime":674.76,"endTime":680.04,"body":"could recommend just one strategy to integrate "},{"startTime":674.76,"endTime":680.04,"body":"ethnocultural empathy simulation into a nursing  "},{"startTime":680.04,"endTime":685.2,"body":"program, what would that be? What would be your "},{"startTime":680.04,"endTime":685.2,"body":"one piece of advice, one strategy that could  "},{"startTime":685.2,"endTime":690.84,"body":"help somebody think about doing it next semester "},{"startTime":685.2,"endTime":690.84,"body":"or the semester after? Well I would say for for  "},{"startTime":690.84,"endTime":697.72,"body":"you to start small but make intentional changes. "},{"startTime":690.84,"endTime":697.72,"body":"It needs to be, really, you need to tap into the  "},{"startTime":697.72,"endTime":705.72,"body":"effective learning, use experiential learning is "},{"startTime":697.72,"endTime":705.72,"body":"really what going to cause a change in empathy.  "},{"startTime":705.72,"endTime":715.2,"body":"And I focus on ethnic, ethnocultural empathy, but "},{"startTime":705.72,"endTime":715.2,"body":"that can be really used towards any targeted  "},{"startTime":715.2,"endTime":722.28,"body":"population that you think of. And just, it "},{"startTime":715.2,"endTime":722.28,"body":"doesn't need to be something as elaborated if the  "},{"startTime":722.28,"endTime":729.28,"body":"school doesn't have enough money to get a 3D or a "},{"startTime":722.28,"endTime":729.28,"body":"VR, maybe we could do start small, just putting the  "},{"startTime":729.28,"endTime":736.84,"body":"patient, I have done that in the past of having "},{"startTime":729.28,"endTime":736.84,"body":"a patient, a student research a culture that  "},{"startTime":736.84,"endTime":743.56,"body":"they would play the role of the patient, so that's "},{"startTime":736.84,"endTime":743.56,"body":"simulated patient, and then when they come in they  "},{"startTime":743.56,"endTime":749.44,"body":"play that role and they need to really use that "},{"startTime":743.56,"endTime":749.44,"body":"culture as part of their role. And then come be the  "},{"startTime":749.44,"endTime":755.28,"body":"student, they're going to be the nurse and then "},{"startTime":749.44,"endTime":755.28,"body":"debriefing the two perspectives at the end is  "},{"startTime":755.28,"endTime":761.48,"body":"something that was very interesting too. What else "},{"startTime":755.28,"endTime":761.48,"body":"would you like us to know about your study, about  "},{"startTime":761.48,"endTime":770.04,"body":"your experience? Well, I think that this is a field "},{"startTime":761.48,"endTime":770.04,"body":"that we still have a lot to learn so I certainly  "},{"startTime":770.04,"endTime":777.28,"body":"think that it can be expanded in so many "},{"startTime":770.04,"endTime":777.28,"body":"different ways, like starting with the qualitative  "},{"startTime":777.28,"endTime":784.96,"body":"information that would be beautiful to have. We "},{"startTime":777.28,"endTime":784.96,"body":"could use similar simulations towards different  "},{"startTime":784.96,"endTime":791.48,"body":"targeted populations that would be also something "},{"startTime":784.96,"endTime":791.48,"body":"very I think useful in that field. We really"},{"startTime":791.48,"endTime":798.04,"body":"don't know, as nursing faculty, we really don't know "},{"startTime":791.48,"endTime":798.04,"body":"how to teach empathy, how to help students enhance  "},{"startTime":798.04,"endTime":804.6,"body":"their empathy. Right. Well, I would imagine you'd "},{"startTime":798.04,"endTime":804.6,"body":"be receptive to those who might be listening and  "},{"startTime":804.6,"endTime":810.2,"body":"be interested in this type of work and expanding "},{"startTime":804.6,"endTime":810.2,"body":"on the work that you did or partnering with you  "},{"startTime":810.2,"endTime":817.08,"body":"to explore some of these variables within their "},{"startTime":810.2,"endTime":817.08,"body":"own school. That would be beautiful. That would  "},{"startTime":817.08,"endTime":822.44,"body":"be very great. It would be nice to really start "},{"startTime":817.08,"endTime":822.44,"body":"expanding and getting different group of students,  "},{"startTime":822.44,"endTime":827.96,"body":"right, because my study was done in a northeastern "},{"startTime":822.44,"endTime":827.96,"body":"portion of the country, but it would be nice to get  "},{"startTime":827.96,"endTime":835.56,"body":"different subjects for the study. Well I want to "},{"startTime":827.96,"endTime":835.56,"body":"thank you so much for joining us for this really  "},{"startTime":835.56,"endTime":841.04,"body":"important conversation. I appreciate your time and "},{"startTime":835.56,"endTime":841.04,"body":"your expertise in broadening our understanding  "},{"startTime":841.04,"endTime":846.08,"body":"of this topic and how we can begin to introduce "},{"startTime":841.04,"endTime":846.08,"body":"this in our own institutions. And to our listeners,  "},{"startTime":846.08,"endTime":850.52,"body":"if you not had the opportunity please look for "},{"startTime":846.08,"endTime":850.52,"body":"the author's work, \"The Effects of Reverse Role  "},{"startTime":850.52,"endTime":856.2,"body":"Simulation on Nursing Students' Ethnocultural "},{"startTime":850.52,"endTime":856.2,"body":"Empathy, A Quantitative Study,\" in the November  "},{"startTime":856.2,"endTime":860.52,"body":"December issue of Nursing Education Perspectives. "},{"startTime":856.2,"endTime":860.52,"body":"And I want to thank all of you for listening and  "},{"startTime":860.52,"endTime":865.68,"body":"I want to especially thank you, Dr. Lalande, for "},{"startTime":860.52,"endTime":865.68,"body":"joining us and sharing just a little piece of your  "},{"startTime":865.68,"endTime":888.68,"body":"work that you're doing. Very inspirational. "},{"startTime":865.68,"endTime":888.68,"body":"Well thank you for having me."},{"startTime":888.68,"endTime":889.18,"body":"[Music]"}]}