Our guest this episode is Erandi Trevino of Public Citizen, Houston. Erandi grew up in Houston and has been concerned about the pollution in her neighborhood since she was a young child.
Before joining Public Citizen in Houston as a Climate Policy and Outreach Specialist, she was an Advocacy Fellow with the Fulbright Association in Washington, DC, where she worked on education policy, nutrition, and financial regulations. During her time in DC, Erandi also volunteered for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute.
Earlier in her career, Erandi assisted the Permanent Representative of Mexico to the United Nations in New York. She has a law degree from Fordham University and degrees in International Relations and Latin American studies from Seton Hall University. Following her graduation there, she received a Fulbright Grant to teach English in Belo Horizonte, Brazil where she became fluent in Portuguese.
In this episode we discuss the following topics:
Resources:
Houston Healthy Port Communities Coalition
Environmental Defense Fund - Better Hubs - Expring Decarbonizing Industry
Greater Houston Port Bureau's Project 11
On Breath Partnership's "What is Port Houston's Project 11?"
Visit us at climatemoneywatchdog.org!
Our guest this episode is Erandi Trevino of Public Citizen, Houston. Erandi grew up in Houston and has been concerned about the pollution in her neighborhood since she was a young child.
Before joining Public Citizen in Houston as a Climate Policy and Outreach Specialist, she was an Advocacy Fellow with the Fulbright Association in Washington, DC, where she worked on education policy, nutrition, and financial regulations. During her time in DC, Erandi also volunteered for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute.
Earlier in her career, Erandi assisted the Permanent Representative of Mexico to the United Nations in New York. She has a law degree from Fordham University and degrees in International Relations and Latin American studies from Seton Hall University. Following her graduation there, she received a Fulbright Grant to teach English in Belo Horizonte, Brazil where she became fluent in Portuguese.
In this episode we discuss the following topics:
Resources:
Houston Healthy Port Communities Coalition
Environmental Defense Fund - Better Hubs - Expring Decarbonizing Industry
Greater Houston Port Bureau's Project 11
On Breath Partnership's "What is Port Houston's Project 11?"
Visit us at climatemoneywatchdog.org!
Thanks for joining us for another episode of climate money watchdog where we investigate and report on how federal dollars are being spent on mitigating climate change and protecting the environment. We are a private, nonpartisan nonprofit organization that does not accept advertisers or sponsors. So we can only do this work with your support. Please visit us at climate money watchdog.org To learn more about us and consider making a donation. My name is Greg Williams, and I learned to investigate and report on waste, fraud and abuse in federal spending. While working at the project on government oversight, or Pogo 30 years ago, I learned to do independent research as well as to work with confidential informants, or whistleblowers to uncover things like overpriced spare parts like the infamous $435 hammers, and expensive military weapons systems that didn't work as advertised. I was taught by my co host Dean eraser, who founded Pogo in 1981, and founded climate money watchdog with me last year, Dina has spent 40 years investigating and sometimes recovering millions of dollars wasted by the Defense Department and other branches of government at Pogo, as an independent journalist, as an author and as a professional investigator. Our guest tonight is Randy Trevino of Public Citizen Houston. And Andrei grew up in Houston and has been concerned about the pollution in her neighborhood since she was a young child before joining public citizen and as a Climate Policy and Outreach Specialist. She was an advocacy fellow with the Fulbright Association in Washington DC, where she worked on Education Policy, nutrition and financial regulations. Also during her time in DC at andI volunteered for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. Earlier in her career at andI asst the Permanent Representative of Mexico to the United Nations in New York. She has a law degree from Fordham University and degrees in international relations and Latin American Studies from Seton Hall University. And following her graduation there, she received a Fulbright grant to teach English in Belo Horizonte, Brazil, where she also became fluent in Portuguese. Deena, is there anything else you'd like to share about why we're excited to have Randy with us?
Dina Rasor:Well, we are starting, we're very excited to have her in specific because she lives in one of the great got to be a little crude about this issue, a fossil fuel test for malaria, a sacrifice stone, as they call it, you know, which was one of the more stunning things that when I started getting into climate, and the guy said, Well, we're in a sacrifice was on me. And so, but we're also starting the thing where we're going to start working with local activist groups, we are working on big issues, big databases, and you know, tax credits and all things and big but I feel very strongly that the people on the ground know what's going on. And when you're working with fake things in within the power elite, and the main media stuff, a lot of times everybody just sort of talk to each other too much. And they all start believing in each other's lives. And, or greenwashing or whatever you want to call it politely. And so we are trying to reach out to local activists. And we've been, if you go back into our podcasts we've already done to other people, that are local activists, and was really happy to have a Rondi Public Citizen, which has got a incredibly long history of public citizen basically started when I was in college. It's been around a long, long time. So anyway, just as we were asking about please, you know, help us support us. And one of the ways if you can't, you know, help support us financially. We are welcoming activists to come in, bring us their stories. And we will give you advice and help you as much as possible and helping with your with your investigations, but also taking your issue up to the national level so that it's become you get out of your neighborhood. And so I'm urging people to do that and once for the activists that how much are we going to owe you? Nothing, that we raise our own money? And that's what that's part of our our public serve as climate watchdog to make sure that the money is spent well. And the technology isn't something from last word and weird kind of, you know, some of the some of these things like carbon capture, and get a little surreal after a while. And so that's so all you activists out there hitting on our website, send me send me an email. And we'll be happy to get talking with you. So that's, that's what I got a few words to say before we start questions. And so around you, do you have anything to add to your introduction or your background, and congratulations for becoming a lawyer. And
Erandi Trevino:thank you so much, Tina, I appreciate you and Gregory for having me on today. As you mentioned, you know, I do live in a sacrifice zone. And so I find that that does provide people in my community, a very sort of particular perspective that other people don't really have to live through in other parts of the country. So I'm always happy to, to talk about these topics and try to figure out, you know, what's a better way forward for us?
Dina Rasor:Okay, well, that kind of segues into my first question, which I will ask it because I asked you about it. Tell us about your upbringing, what inspired you to do this oil and gas stuff? But you said, Well, you know, we grew up in sacrifice. So why don't you just describe to us? Who uses that term? And why it seems that term? And what it really means?
Erandi Trevino:Yeah, the the term is usually, as you alluded to, before, it's used in the environmental justice world. So when we talk about environmental justice, it often goes together with the term sacrifice zone. So a sacrifice zone sort of describes what the issue of environmental justice is at its core, which means that there are certain sectors of the population certain people, people who are typically low income people of color, people who are maybe immigrants are typically in sections that are taken advantage of dumped on. And really, the term sacrifice comes from, from the fact that, yes, these are certain communities that are getting the worst part of the effects. But everybody else is benefiting from it, right? So everybody's benefiting from energy from us having energy sources, gasoline, being able to power our homes, being able to power our vehicles, etc, etc, etc. So all those benefits right are sort of shared around the country. But the, the results and like this, the consequences of this production and of this like voracious production that just wants to keep on growing. It's our communities, the communities are in the sacrifices are being sacrificed for the benefit of everybody else.
Dina Rasor:What was it like to grow up in one of the did you have childhood illnesses and things like that from?
Erandi Trevino:Yes, yes. So my story is a little bit. It's common in the area that where I grew up in here in Houston, because like many people in the East End, which is where I first landed in Houston, it's a landing pad for a lot of immigrants. And so my mom and I, and my little sister, that's where we first arrived when we came from Mexico when I was seven. And when I lived in Mexico, I lived in places that had a lot of pollution. So I lived in Monterey first, and really in a place where there's a lot of industry, production of all types. They produce, you know, electrical, like items and food, etc. But there's just a lot of pollution. And then the second place we lived in was a coal mining town. So it just so happened that I was sort of being exposed and exposed. And when we landed in the East End, where again, we moved to a different country, um, that in itself is not really an easy move. But then we land somewhere where we're being exposed to toxic chemicals on a regular basis. So yeah, I had stomach aches and headaches and body aches and just different type of discomfort but all the time, right, it was chronic. These were chronic issues that I was having. There were times where I would have a migraine for four weeks at a time nonstop wake up with one called sleep with one or again the upset stomach. Now I'm sort of able to identify when an upset stomach is because I ate something that wasn't good for it. or it's because there's something in the air that's upsetting my stomach, because I'm breathing it in, and I'm swallowing and it's all landing in my tummy. And if that same day, everybody else around me or my nieces and someone else is also having a stomach ache, I can make that connection of oh, it's because the environmental impacts are having an effect. And so even recently, I had a conversation with a friend, best friend, my one of my best friends from fifth grade, who also lived within two miles of the ship channel, and went to school within two miles of the ship channel. And I was talking to her about these issues with stomach aches, and you know, the effects on children. And immediately, she tells me, I used to have stomach aches all the time as a kid. And this isn't uncommon, but people aren't having those conversations on a regular basis. Because to be quite frank, like people don't like to talk about, you know, illnesses. And I mean, people don't like to hear about it. So people sort of, you know, for me growing up with health issues, I'd be so eager to learn, you don't really talk about it as much. But when you don't talk about it, then those connections are missed. And we'll start to see, oh, we need to start speaking up against the fact that all our kids are getting sick, or we're all getting really bogged down from this.
Gregory A. Williams:Yeah, I want to point out for listeners who have never been to Houston don't don't know who's in his like Houston is a big city, it's 20 or 30 miles across, it doesn't have the same kind of zoning laws that most other metropolitan areas in the United States have. And so there's lots of intermingling between residential, commercial and retail spaces. And then the shipping channel that Hyundai has been describing sort of goes all the way from, let's say, the three o'clock position almost to the center of the city, it's depending on how you measure it 20 or 30 miles long. And it's surrounded on both sides by huge tank farms and other industrial facilities that are involved in the refinement of petrochemicals. Yeah, I've
Erandi Trevino:actually heard of a the length of 52 miles long, it's a really long channel, and then it's wide at certain points. So it covers a lot of territory, it means that a lot of communities are impacted, which means that that's those are more communities that are not only impacted, but also sort of isolated from each other, because industry is embedded in between them. So that's a challenge that presents a challenge to organizing each other. Right. So being able to organize with each other, because if you count the entire metropolitan area of Houston, that's 7 million people. Right? And then if we bring it down just to the ship channel, it's really long. So again, the impacts and being able to connect with all those people and advocate together, it's it's a challenge. It's not impossible. I think it's completely like, I truly believe it's doable, but that's why I do this work. But that distance, the fact that it does cover so much land is a big, big barrier for us.
Dina Rasor:So
Gregory A. Williams:I was gonna ask around it, tell us about the coalition of companies and other institutions that form the high velocity hubs and what their ambitions are for the Houston area in the hydrogen industry.
Erandi Trevino:Yeah, so the high velocity fund is made up of different energy leading companies. So companies that are already working in the energy field, perhaps already working with hydrogen, and they're applying to be a USD US Department of Energy, regional clean hydrogen hub, which would help essentially fund accelerate the development of clean hydrogen projects in Texas and the rest of the Gulf in the US. And so really, what this means is, these companies that include Chevron, they include the Senator for Houston's future. These are all the founding member members. And what they want to do is they want to take advantage of these federal funds that are available right now, through the infrastructure act, and through the what is it i j. A and Ira sold through the two acts that are bringing in a lot of federal money right now. And so this high velocity hub, but what take advantage of some of these funds to create more infrastructure or sort of capitalize on the existing infrastructure in Houston and add to it and make it bigger and produce more energy? And so there's, I mean, whenever I meet with, I mean, I meet with different agencies and I meet with different leaders here in Houston and the when you said the ambition right there true really is great ambition in the area to just keep growing. And to me, it brings me honestly panic on a personal level, because I'm already at my wit's end a lot of times because of whatever spill is in the air, and whatever extra flaring is going on down, you know, down on the ship channel, whatever other issues, and I cannot even fathom what it would be like if we keep adding to it, and not only adding to it, but exponentially growing the way that they want to grow. And so the high velocity fund is once one of these initiatives that are wanting to expand and take advantage of federal dollars, and keep growing something that in theory is for the benefit of the environment. But realistically the amount of energy that it takes to produce and the risk that it brings additional risks of spills and leakages. It's just, again, as someone who lives here, I can tell you, we're on our last leg as a community, meaning we've had so many pressures placed on us. social, financial, educational, you know, because I mean, HSD, for example, is a total disaster right now it's being taken over by Austin by by the state government. And so everything is sort of like piling on to the communities on top of them plus the recession. So everything that everyone else is feeling right financially, right now, all those pressures are being felt even more. And then you add, for example, the community that's right next door to me, there's an 18 Wheeler parking lot right next door to my house, that scent that that census, like square from that line onward, has an over 50% rate of COPD, more than 50% of the people living there have COPD, which is upper respiratory, like lung condition. And so again, when you have 50%, COPD, when you have kids having asthma, asthma attacks, and they're having to miss school, missing grades, right having to be held back because they're missing school because they can't breathe. We can't take anymore. And so I don't understand that's my primary concern with this, you know, with this ambition of expanding, expanding, expanding, it's like, you know, where peace alive and they're just trying to get every last bit of it out of our community. But it's time for us to say no, we can't be sacrificed anymore.
Gregory A. Williams:So just quickly, COPD is chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. So it's the kind of chronic condition that can actually cause you to die in your sleep. It's what people use CPAP machines for, for example. So let's let me play devil's advocate for a moment. So why wouldn't it be better for that big parking lot full of semi trailers to be burning hydrogen fuel instead of diesel fuel? All of a sudden? And to what extent is their vision in encompass that?
Erandi Trevino:Yeah. If it was all of a sudden, and we just had hydrogen available? Hopefully you let's say, green hydrogen available, then yes, right. And it wasn't produced necessarily in my backyard, then, okay. But the problem is that we, there's infrastructure that still needs to be added, for them to create this additional hydrogen. And then that hydrogen needs to be created here in this area, which produces greater emissions in the area, the production, the deconstruction of the infrastructure produces emissions, and the production of the of the hydrogen does not only that hydrogen, because because of its size, because it's so finite, it's prone to leakages. And so we're in a place that already has high levels of accidents of incidences that happen at industry at these facilities. So you have explosions, fires, leakages, etc. So we're already used to seeing that we know that that's sort of like the standard, right. And in Texas, there's a one to 3% enforcement rate, one to 3% of the time. Yeah. And so when you have a one to 3% enforcement rate, it's like my nine year old knee said, I mean, why follow the rules, right? You would just bet on not ever getting in trouble and hope for the best. And so when we already have that type of situation going on here in Houston, how can a community say, Oh, yes, I trust this industry, to create even more of a risk in our community when we already know that the responsibilities they've been handed. They they're not Not able to
Dina Rasor:honor. Okay, well that that really segues right in, because this is what what a lot of people don't realize, you know, they say hydrogen, oh, it's clean energy. Well, it depends on what kind of hydrogen and they're, they're playing a game on you with colors. And right now, my understanding what they're planning to do is they're planning to put in so they can make blue hydrogens now, which blue hydrogen is still made with, with, with petrochemicals and fossil fuel. And, you know, probably natural gas and stuff. And so it's still adding carbon in the manufacturing in, it's not, it's not a clean, it's not clean, it's not renewable. And yet, they talk about it about it. Oh, it's not like that terrible weather, either called gray or brown hydrogen, which is really dirty, because it was used to be that the process was really dirty with. They weren't even trying to lower the carbon, and whatever. But what we're going to do blue hydrogen, blue hydrogen, sounds good, you know. And they said, boom, we're going to do that. And we're going to have this carbon capture where we capture the co2 out of the smokestack, and then they have a pipeline to the co2 to take it somewhere variant. And then you write the f7 pipelines for the hydrogen. And so this ball thing, and then they they, you know, in the proposal and reading along, yeah, yeah. And then ultimately, if up, but in the future, we're going to make green hydrogen, or green hydrogen is what you are, you would want to do want to do because it's done by electrolysis, and it splits water into hydrogen and oxygen. And so it doesn't. And if you make when you do that, as hydrologist, you use renewable energy, when solar, whatever. And so that the only hydrogen that really does not make the carbon that much worse, is green hydrogen is still controversial that people arguing about whether or not that but they say, whenever somebody like company tells the government, first we're going to start out with semi dirty and then we're going to get better in the future, we'll finally be, you know, perfect. They're counting on people like Iran, they didn't go away, and forget that they said that, and just, you know, what was the sacrifice? Right. So I love but I wanted to ask you, do you think this coalition sir, eventually moving to green hydrogen, when they create the infrastructure?
Erandi Trevino:Well, as history is any indicator, I would say, again, they don't deserve our trust, they don't deserve the trust of the community. Because I mean, I'm gonna have to do this has inspired me to do a deeper dive into each member of the hivelocity. Hub. But the fact that for example, Chevron is a part of it is already a red flag for me. And I granted you need current industry to be involved in in the evolution out of, you know, what is it our dependency on these dirty sources of energy, right? So they do need to be part of this movement, but first to just trust in what industry does. There's no way because they've proven here in Texas, at least that if they can get away with it, or if the law allows it to even if it is damaging to someone in the community. It does. They still break the law, right? If it's more convenient if it's more cost effective. So until we see a different pattern from industry, there's no reason for us to just say, Yes, we trust you.
Dina Rasor:Yeah, I would say that
Gregory A. Williams:the the, the high velocity of is already tipped, it's and if you if you read their material carefully, they sort of lay out the timeline they have in mind and I want to read an extended quote that I think captures most of it. So quote, while electrolysis based technologies will continue to scale through 2050. In other words, they're not going to be doing things mostly through electrolysis for another 25 or 30 years. So continuing the quote, natural bet natural gas based pathways will likely represent a significant portion of hydrogen production. In other words, they're going to continue to bake dirty hydrogen. So, again, continuing with the quote, as such, Texas would need significant carbon storage as it transitions into a hydrogen hub in 2035, you know, 12 years from now, the state could produce eight mega tons per annum of hydrogen, assuming. And again, these are their words, assuming that 70 to 90% of this production is natural gas based, Texas would have to store another 45 to 55 megatons of co2, based on its era with CCS at a 98% capture rate. So they are, they're betting this whole program on continuing to produce hydrogen with, with gas. And they're betting it all in the success of of carbon capture and storage.
Dina Rasor:There are always these
Erandi Trevino:sort of like the guarantee is made, right, or there's this promise made. But really, there are all these ifs and buts that need to happen, all these other things that need to happen first, for that to happen for that to actually be the result. Or like the same thing, the same red flag pops into my head, whenever I hear well, we need to scale it up to really see the benefits, the environmental benefits and scale it up. Again, this is something that we've seen doesn't work in the past. And so as you were mentioning, even there, even their plan says that for another 20 something years, they would still be using dirty hydrogen.
Gregory A. Williams:And even then, the benefits of electrolysis don't even come into play until you have a clean electric grid. So the one to two kilograms of co2 per kilogram of of hydrogen, you don't reach that end, by the way, that's an explicit target of high velocities to get down to one, one to two kilograms of co2 per per kilogram of hydrogen, you don't get there until you have a completely create a clean electric grid. And recent study by the Rocky Mountain Institute calculated that if you were to do all of all electrolysis in in Texas, are all hydrogen production via electrolysis. Based on the the the fossil fuel heavy electric grid, they have their it would be 20 kilograms of co2 per kilogram of, of hydrogen. So I was sort of surprised, I was expecting to at least see a roadmap to that one to two kilograms of co2 to, to kilogram of of carbon, and it just it doesn't seem to be in there.
Dina Rasor:Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's I, I always get, you know, I I've been around long enough and these kinds of things, and the defense partner does the same thing with their weapons. You know, they say, Oh, I it doesn't really work on the battlefield now. But you know, we expect in five years to fix that, and 10 years from fix that, but you got to keep giving us money. And they can make it greenwashing is a very similar to what a lot of other people do in the federal government. But basically, it's basically they're telling you how green it's going to be in the future. But like, what Greg just brought up is that even in the green version, they've got these hidden carbon thing. And I sort of rag on this almost every podcast because I want people to start thinking about it. You know, people get me, oh, it's carbon capture, direct capture. There's this there's that, you know, and I'd say now, you know, Bill McKibben, who's a famous environmentalist who's been doing climate change for a long time. And we had him on, and he had an article in The Atlantic Monthly. And then the title of the article, I actually told him I want to use it for a bumper sticker because no, they use bumper stickers, the thing of your job and opportunity and that kind of thing. He says basically, and in light of what happened, why today it is. Just emphasize it's he says, The earth is on fire, stop burning thing. Full stop. And this is exactly the kind of thing. The thing is we're gonna we're gonna started out something but we're still burning things that would be natural gas, you know, and everything else. But someday when we go into AWS, we're going to find, we're going to do this by electrostatic and oh, you know, everything will be beautiful and wonderful and everything else. Oh, but I guess we didn't tell you that the grid is also going to use up the co2. So if you're in letting out co2 and stuff, and some burning thing, okay, you're still burning things. And we twice have had on a really great professor from Stanford. Now, I'm renewing Jacobson, Dr. Jacobson, Mark Z. And he, he says, We can do the whole thing without any of the fossil fuel, and any of these, or nuclear or anything else. That is, you know, not just putting renewable energy, we can do it. And he's looked at 145 countries. But I always say this, who the ones the listeners, probably listeners know more about climate change than I do. But I understand about propaganda. And I just wish I want to every activist at every meeting, say, what do you do to stop burning thing? What do you mean? Well, your MO, we got carbon capture, we capture 98%, that's never heard anybody making risk capturing 88%. You know, they, they say it's this amount, and there's so many 23%, loader lower and everything else. So having that stuff burn capturing it, transporting it through a bunch of pipelines, transporting you have to transfer now you have transfer the hydrogen and the co2 through pipelines, and then take the take the co2 and put it back into the earth, which it could also leak, you know, that's not worth that burning. In other words, that's not a solution to burn. It's not going to make it easier, but it is going to make it easier for them to justify continuing not going completely clean energy. So that's my little soapbox here. So that everybody who is an activist or you know, in your area and stuff, look up Vulcans article and put that quote in your head when he can stop burning thing, every project, when are you going to stop burning things? When does the co2 to go away? When does the when does the natural gas wave away? Where's the coal go away? When the bio waste go away? You know, oh, by the way, see that sounds ecological, you know, and, but it's burning something. And I thought that from that point on, every time I open up and look at a new project like this one, I'm like, Okay. When are we going to, when or when is, you know, I've lost the hub. They're so excited about it. And then you wait, when are they going to stop? Really? When are they going to stop? So I wanted to get your opinion on that. Randy, too, would like to speak first?
Gregory A. Williams:Oh, no, I'm sorry. I wanted to say Dina and I are doing a lot of talking, we haven't given you much of an opportunity to tell us about what public citizen is doing.
Dina Rasor:Yeah, well, that's my big thing now.
Erandi Trevino:Yeah. So well, my role at Public Citizen is primarily to work with the healthy work communities coalition. So I manage the Coalition, a coalition of different organizations that are located around the Houston Ship Channel. And so they're all working on some of them specify on water, or specialize in water, some of them specialize in, in air, others on this community outreach and support, etc, etc. So they're all sort of doing something different in the area. And the coalition is a way for us to come together and really advocate for those basic things that we all agree our community needs. And so one of the things that we're working on through the coalition is trying to influence what type of grants the Port of Houston applies to. Because since a lot of these federal grants are IGA in the IRA, the baker grants, the ones that are millions and millions of dollars have to be matched from whoever is applying that means that the only ones who are eligible to apply are going to be agencies such as the Port of Houston or maybe even coalition such as like the high velocity thought hub. And so just
Dina Rasor:go ahead. I was gonna have you built I was going to have you go into the next step of, of telling us what you're doing What you guys are planning to do on this and what he what you have done to them how they have reacted. And then what you what your plans are in the future on this type specifically on your high velocity.
Erandi Trevino:Yeah, specifically on high velocity hub, what we're trying to do is discourage the Port of Houston from using their applications, their grant applications to sort of advocate for this type of work, or to contribute to this work. And so every time that a grant comes up right now that we've been working with the port, what we're trying to do is discourage them from doing that. But unfortunately, the poor like many other agencies, like many other industry, they are super sold, right? They're bought, they drink the Kool Aid, the hydrogen Kool Aid, unfortunately, and so we're trying to our job right now is to sort of convince them otherwise. But as you were mentioning before, that propaganda is really strong. The propaganda here from oil and gas and petrochemical industry in Houston has existed for decades. Right. Now we we're reaching a point where I truly believe our community sees clearly what's going on, right, clearly sees that they're being sacrificed clearly sees that Sure. Does the poor provide jobs? Does it provide some financial stability for the city short, yes. And even some pregnant financial mobility from people who I grew up with, right from fellow immigrants. So they've been able to become financially mobile because of being part of the industry. However, again, when people keep getting sick all the time, and your kids keep getting sick all the time. And it's smelled outside. And now people are starting to talk about the air and you see the haze in the distance, it becomes a lot harder to sort of bite into that propaganda. And not only that, going back to your, the quote on the earth is on fire, stop burning things. Not only is the earth on fire, but this is one of the like, the starting ground zeroes of where the fire is coming from. And so really, that's why to me, it's just unconscionable to add any more to a place that already has the this is where the fire is coming from. And in this area, right. And in the country. I mean, we have, we have some of the most environmentally vulnerable communities in the entire country. In some cases, the top point 1% most vulnerable, around me, top 5%. All right, still out of the entire country. Right. So we need to start putting the out the fire here first. That way, it'll help dissipate everything else.
Gregory A. Williams:So what kinds of grants do you encourage the poor to apply for?
Erandi Trevino:So we're trying to really also explain the importance of justice 40 to the Port of Houston. So trying to get them to sort of buy into the fact that 40% of the whatever they're applying for, should either go directly toward projects that are around the communities most affected, or at least 40% of the benefits should go to those communities, right? Whether it's money amount of 40% or 40% of the benefits either way, we're trying to really encourage the fact that these federal funds are meant to at least in large part 40% benefit communities, frontline communities, or in other words, sacrifice sacrifice zones. And so we're trying to get them to apply for things like electric electrification technology, right? Charging stations, applying for electric, whatever other technological like for example, electrical freight, right, any type of electrical equipment that they can use, that can reduce emissions in the areas around the port, which are the areas most affected here. That's what we want them to do. So really, it's case by case right now. But the main thing that we're focusing on is making sure that they're, again, accepting the fact that 40% should benefit these communities and applying for projects that will reflect that directly. Right. And so we're still sort of struggling with that part. I think we have made some headway. However. The perception is still oftentimes, while we're applying for these funds, this is our money. Right? And no, it's federal money, federal money that is meant to benefit everyone. The grant They're meant to be taken out by groups that can help that process move along, right, like contractors, etc. But
Dina Rasor:that's what it's for. That's
Erandi Trevino:the that was the intention. Right? Like the President. Yes. Go ahead, please. Yeah.
Dina Rasor:Oh, well, yeah. No, I didn't mean never a few. But I'm just at one of the ask you. This is what the IRA funding says should happen? Do you see it? You know, we're Clement money watchdog, and we're always watching. Do you see any efforts or it from the DOA to watch this, to make sure that it's really going to this 40% that they are, you know, by the statue are supposed to do? Have you seen? And when is the DoD there for you? Or any of the other parts of the DOA or, or transportation or whoever's doing the grid? And, you know, in that case, are they there for you to make? Is there anybody in the federal government standing there saying to make sure that money is going to the sack people who've already made the sacrifice?
Gregory A. Williams:Yeah, just to emphasize that the, you know, I was intrigued to see that the high velocities, literature itself emphasizes the justice 40 initiative. And and I was going to ask if that gave you an opportunity to, to ask them to, you know, show you, you know, show me the money, you know, show me the the 40% benefit that you're delivering with these projects,
Dina Rasor:and works the federal money cop making sure that that's what you're doing. Yeah, so.
Erandi Trevino:So both things. First of all, talk about the Department of Energy, the Department of Energy has been open to talking to community groups. I know, a couple of our community partners have spoken with the Department of Energy directly to talk about issues running just this 40 and challenges around it. Because I'm not sure if well, so that language around justice 40 was switched at some point. Because of I think it was a fear of a lawsuit. Essentially, instead of seeing that 40%. Child go to the communities, it was something like can go to the communities anyway. It's sort of like, decrease the level of like, what that come from? Sorry, I'm like,
Dina Rasor:certainly increase the certainty of where it's supposed to go. They put a fire in this escape hatch.
Erandi Trevino:Yeah, exactly. And so right now we're trying to figure out, okay, so now what, right, the intent of this law was to benefit these communities, the intent of this law was to move our energy transition forward. So where does that leave us? Right. And so we're, we're having those conversations with the Department of Energy, and even the Department of Transportation for some other types of grants. And so they have been receptive. It's just, you know, things so move very quickly. Especially with, with agencies. And so, a lot of times, it seems like we're having the same conversations multiple times, and sort of trying to switch the way we sort of frame things to make sure that the people we're speaking to the agencies, for example, are understanding quite the level of suffering we're at, in my community, because that's what I that's how I feel. Like, that's our reality, in the sacrifice zones. It's a real, it's a reality of sometimes feeling, like the effects from your external environment, things that you cannot control, or torture, right, because, for example, random things that happen as an effect from from dirty air, for example, my mom and I both have chronic inflammation. And sometimes our hand hurts so much, we can't use it. We can't use our hands. Or sometimes we have such difficulty breathing, we can't do anything. And so what does that do? We're creating people who are, you know, who are physically less capable, and therefore, less likely to be able to be successful, less likely to, you know, be able to overcome these things that are again health related, which to me is like the worst thing that can happen to a person, right? People say, health is wealth. Well, in my community, we don't have health. Overall, we don't have it again, me, as I am hypersensitive physically, because I already have all these. I've been exposed to pollution my entire life to high concentrations of it. So now I have a series of chronic conditions that are made worse by environmental factors. Ders. And so whenever those are triggered, and if they're triggered, let's say every day that week, or every day, that month, eventually it becomes like torture. And again, it's not okay for our community tab to live our reality, it's not okay for us to have to go through life with one hand tied behind our back, because our health is affected.
Dina Rasor:In other words, you are, you're you've lived it, you don't want it to, you've lived it, you've done the sacrifice, you don't want to have to do any more sacrifice for another generation.
Erandi Trevino:I don't want to sacrifice myself, and I don't want my community to have to do that sacrifice. Because I know that I feel it. Just because I feel it more in my body doesn't mean that it's only affecting me. Because if everybody's breathing it, it's damaging all of our bodies. So one reason why cancer is so common in our community. cancer, asthma, chronic inflammation, all these other issues that are not as prevalent in other communities.
Dina Rasor:And when you go, yeah, sorry to interrupt you, but when when the government kind of does the slow roll on you and stuff that you say, you know, they aren't speeding up, or the climate speeding up. That's what I keep telling people, we can't make money mistakes. And we got to move the can't square out the usual round and round and round government meetings and whatever. It the earth is on fire. And it's, and you're breathing it.
Erandi Trevino:Yeah. And what the government loves to do is what I found out is passing the buck, right? It's not us, it's them. And then you go to them. It's not them, it's the others. And so it's always just me bouncing it back and forth, bouncing the responsibility back and forth. And eventually what I try to also tell them is we all have to be responsible for this
Dina Rasor:is all our home. We all have to act.
Gregory A. Williams:So is there a set of milestones or gates through which the the the high velocity hub project has to pass through? What What would you encourage our listeners to be looking for and watching in the coming six to 12 months? And what plans do you in public citizen have to to intervene in those milestones?
Erandi Trevino:Yeah, so what I encourage people to pay attention to is, well, it's sometimes it's hard, but there are some websites that keep track of the applications of of which of like the hubs that are applying. And so for example, one of our partners, the Environmental Defense Fund has a website that they can go to, which is a place to explore potential hydrogen hubs. And so it's a compilation of different hydrogen hub applications that have come up. And so it's an easier way for people to see if any of those applications have come up in their state. And then they can look further into see if it's, you know, even closer to their homes. Because if they are in a place that's potentially affected, what they can do is send letters directly to the Department of Energy, saying, you know, one thing that's very, very powerful, again, is simply writing a letter from behalf not simply but writing a letter from behalf of community groups that can all support it and saying, you know, we disapprove of this project, for these reasons, right, and explaining the situation at the community and just saying why they oppose it. So to have community groups directly oppose an application is very powerful. It does have an effect, at least according to, again, the agencies that we've been speaking to.
Gregory A. Williams:Alright, so we'll definitely want to get the URL for that website to include in the description of this, this particular podcast episode. Other things that we should be watching for in the next six to 12 months that, that your organization is doing?
Erandi Trevino:Yeah, so our organization is going to be trying to work on increasing community outreach. Thankfully, there there is some opportunity to grow our capacity here locally. And so what we want to do is that is connect with community and to be able to have those conversations, because a lot of times industries take advantage of the fact that some of our communities aren't talking to each other. And again, going back to the fact that Houston doesn't have zoning laws, and a lot of our communities are sort of divided up between industry or you have industry embedded in the in the neighborhood. So it kind of creates this isolation between the neighborhoods. So we're going to try to create ways to facilitate those conversations within the community. Because I truly believe that again, my community is ready to have I'm sort of confront these issues, to attend permit hearings to speak up to write letters, just to make sure that both the government and these applicants and all that we're watching that we are also paying attention to what they're doing. And and hopefully that that encourages also applicants firm to do a better job, if they know that people are watching and able, and willing to speak up.
Gregory A. Williams:Any other advice or calls to action you'd like to leave our listeners with tonight?
Erandi Trevino:Well, if they would like to find out more about the Healthy port communities coalition or public citizen, I definitely invite everyone to, to go to our websites. And just if you want to become involved and have some questions about what do you do, if you want to become environmentally involved in it locally or in your state, but have questions about it? You know, please reach out to us, we'd be happy to sort of explain what are all the options and how do we, how do we create that, that strong voice together? All right, well,
Gregory A. Williams:it's been inspiring to have you here tonight. And we certainly want to keep in touch, because hivelocity has a long way to go. And we hope that you will continue your work to try to keep them on target and focus on producing healthier communities. Any final words from you, Dina?
Dina Rasor:No, except for like I said, go to her website, especially if you feel like you're living in a sacrifice zone, go to the go to her website and watch see what public citizens doing? And you know, go to the databases and look up your area, because when you go to the databases, and you have actual documentation, you can show up at a meeting then they don't, then they're just not going to treat. You're just a tree hugger now, I guess, you know, yes, back. So we really admire what you're doing. And we know that it's hard, and it's personal. And it's not just personal because your health, what you're trying to do for your community. So we are very interested in seeing how much we can...
Erandi Trevino:Thank you somuch. Thank you