What If Male Sexuality Is Good At Its Core #125

We speak with Dr. Eric Fitzmedrud about rethinking male desire, building safer consent, and turning pressure into genuine connection. He shares his journey into ethical nonmonogamy, how families can make open structures work, and why porn isn’t the enemy—shame and bad sex ed are.

• desire is not a need and how that changes connection
• consent as the double green light and clear intentions
• shifting from entitlement to offering pleasure
• therapy with hetero, gay, mono, and poly clients
• personal path from affairs to ethical nonmonogamy
• cohabiting, parenting roles, and house domains
• book insights on testosterone myths and emotion skills
• stress, libido, and dating with safety in mind
• porn, shame, and mental health drivers of compulsion
• early exposure, sex education gaps, and resources
• how to contact Eric and work within California

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Transcript

Meet Dr. Eric Fitzmedrud

Intro 0:00

Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth podcast, Frank talk about sex and dating.

Tamara 0:05

Hello, Tamara here. Welcome to the show. Today's guest is Eric Fitzmedrude, a licensed psychologist and a member of the American Association of Sexual Educators, Counselors, and Therapists. Thanks for joining me, Eric.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 0:18

Thank you for having me.

Tamara 0:20

Yes, I think this will be interesting, especially some more stuff we're going to get into a little later. But I know you specialize in helping men improve their sex lives. And how and why did you start doing that?

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 0:34

I think that like a lot of therapists, I began really with myself. I started taking every course that I could in my graduate school process that related to sexuality to try to better understand my own sexuality and some of the things that I had done that maybe I wasn't proud of or that I didn't understand about why they turned me on. And that led me to having kind of a good theoretical background in sexuality. And when I began working with couples, I found that I could kind of understand and translate back and forth across both experiences very well, especially helping men to understand their sexuality and understand the emotions connected to it so that they could uh improve their relationships in a particular way.

Desire Versus Need

Tamara 1:35

Okay. And I can guess that part of it is like the more emotional side that women generally are looking for, or yeah, like we feel seen and heard and want the eye contact and all the cuddles and all the stuff. Is that part of what you mean? Or is that just part of it?

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 1:51

You know, that is a part of it to understand that for many women, um, the experience of sexuality is mediated by the emotional relationship. But it's also to help men understand the nature of their desire better. So a lot of men come into my practice um not understanding the difference between desire and a need, um, really feeling um that if they don't get sex, that they won't uh be able to have connection. For many of them, that's true, but only because they haven't learned how to make a connection. Helping men understand that uh desire is not a need, and that just because you have a thought or an interest in something doesn't mean that you will be physically or mentally ill if you don't get that need fulfilled, helps men to put their sexual interests and desires in a little more of an appropriate place in their lives, and to help elevate up their desire to connect with their partners out of only being a sexual desire.

Entitlement, Consent, And Connection

Tamara 3:06

Yeah, because I know you mentioned um like sexual entitlement and consent. And I know I I just saw a thing on Facebook where a woman said basically her husband like has to have it all the time and she's like doesn't want to and just has to give in at this point, and she's asking, like, what should she do about that? So that sounds like a similar kind of yeah.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 3:28

When when all of a man's human connection takes place in his relationship and in sex in his relationship, then he does get really driven around. I need to connect with you. He may not be touched, hugged, held, seen, witnessed in any other space in his life. He may not know really how to experience his humanity without being sexual. But when men expand out of sexuality for their human connection, when they have friends, community members, people they can open up to about their fears, worries, and aspirations, including, of course, their partner, then suddenly sexuality does often still take on a high interest for a lot of men. But it shifts from I need sex in order to feel connected as a human being, to, hey, I have a gift that I'd like to give. I have sexual desire, I would like to give you pleasure, I would like to experience new and fun things. Can we try that? It shifts from becoming a demand to an offer. And that offer tends to be much more attractive.

Tamara 4:45

Yes, I would agree with that. Yeah. And um, so what are some of the things that you have dealt with, or I guess each couple I know is in is gonna be, you know, their particular issue. But like what are some of the common things people come to you for? And I know you're in the San Francisco area, so I don't know if it's what who you help more. Is it usually same-sex or or opposite sex or like you guys are, polyamorous or bisexual?

Who He Works With

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 5:16

My personal practice is um pretty diverse. I work with a fair number of gay men in individual or couples therapy, but primarily I work with heterosexual couples, whether they are monogamous or polyamorous. Um again, the vast majority of couples that I work with are cis, hetero, and monogamous, but I also work with diversity of all kinds.

Tamara 5:45

Okay. And I know um since I brought it up, and I just I haven't had too many episodes about um polyamory or bisexuality. I've had a couple. So I just since I you are someone that is both of those things, you want to just talk about how that came to be or why it works for you guys or um it came to be partly, you know, I had had um I mentioned earlier that in my grad school career I started taking courses in sexuality so I could understand some of my own behavior.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 6:18

So uh in year two, two and a half of my marriage, um, I cheated twice, back to back, one more emotional and the other more physical. And I'm usually a very ethical person. Uh the honesty is very important to me. You know, I recycle, I put carts away at the grocery store, even sometimes when they're not mine. Like it is a big part of how I move through the world and how I think of myself. So for me to do this um was very painful, of course, for my wife, but it was also very painful for me to witness this behavior. And I really wanted to try to understand it. Um, fast forward 12 years, I thought that I understood a lot more about my sexuality. I thought that I understood a lot more about my relationship needs. I thought I was doing really well. And um kind of out of the blue and um unexpected and not really looking, not looking for it, um, I fell into a third affair. Um, it was online, still, you know, sexual and emotional in many ways, but it really surprised me. And um as I went into trying to understand why that was, um, I started realizing that I really needed more connection and I had a lot more love to give. I had worked out the sexual component of the differences between me and my wife a long time ago after the affairs, but the need for more connection, just laying on the couch and having my head rubbed, um was still really there. And um we had had polyamorous friends and community, and after about a year and a half of recovery from that third affair and a lot of conversations, and a wife who is not prone to jealousy, um, we tried it and we both experienced a lot of benefits from it. Um, and now for it's been about 10 years now that we've been open. Um, I've been with my second partner for almost eight years, and we've been living together in the same house for over six years.

Tamara 8:51

Okay. And and I know you said she does not have jealousy, so that definitely helps.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 8:55

But how much less jealousy than average, right? If if jealousy is distributed on a bell curve, she's on the low end, not none, but less. Yeah, okay.

Tamara 9:07

Yeah. But uh, how does that dynamic work? Do you like have do you all sleep in the same bed or you take turns and like one is at like kind of two primary beds?

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 9:17

Yeah, we sleep in different beds. Um my two partners each have a bedroom of their own. Um my wife and I hadn't slept together um for a couple of years in the same bed because she snores. Um, and so we had learned to find connection outside of that um for quite a while. Um and my second partner really, really likes and appreciates that. So, in terms of in the bed sleeping, um uh um at you know, at night, going in, not a euphemism for sex, but sleeping. I sleep in the bed with my second partner.

Tamara 9:57

Okay. And all is well, or you have your moments, or what's that? I said, and all is well with that, or you guys have your moments, or like what have what are some things you've had to work through?

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 10:09

Yeah, you know, um, when we moved in together, we got a family therapist for a couple of years um to help us figure out how to cohabitate, how to navigate the parenting process. Um, you know, I think that uh very naturally, um, just as often happens with um uh couples that separate and then have a stepparent come in. There was some concern about the parenting roles and what is the new parent's role in this child's life. And it's really been different for all three of our kids. Um sometimes I say the fourth hidden partner in our relationship is the house, because there are two two different living spaces, one upstairs and one downstairs. My wife kind of has domain over one of those living spaces, my second partner more domain over the second. And so their different housekeeping styles don't have to bump into each other. They also have separate bathrooms that um there are different housekeeping styles don't bump into each other. Um, so it's not um it's not all roses all the time, but generally we found a pretty stable set way of navigating the relationship with each other. They call each other partners, though they don't have a romantic or sexual relationship. Um, and for example, they do a lot of things to care intend for each other, like picking up medications or driving each other different places at times.

Tamara 11:53

Okay. Yeah, it sounds pretty normal. Like I mean, I don't know why I just said called it normal, but you know what I mean. Like it like anyone else's thing, so it's just another person in the mix.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 12:04

So yeah, it's um it's relatively drama-three-free most of the time.

Tamara 12:10

Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. And then I know you also are an author. Do you want to talk about that? Because I know it goes back to helping men. We can get back into that after you talk about the book if you want.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 12:21

Sure. So uh my book is called The Better Man: A Guide to Consent, Stronger Relationships, and Hotter Sex. It's uh not written specifically for polyamory or anything like that. In fact, I assume that most of my readers are in monogamous relationships and that they need good advice that works for people in monogamous relationships. But I really try to attend to the pain that men are in in their relationships, feeling disconnected, wanting love, feeling love, uh, but not always knowing how to deliver that, not always knowing how to manage the sexual aspects, and not knowing all the time how to get their emotional needs met. And I really walk the reader through a process of connecting to that pain, learning a little bit about sexuality and desire from a scientific perspective, debunking some myths about testosterone and manhood, looking at some of the research about that, and then helping the reader develop skills for managing his own emotions and then communicating skillfully in a relationship in a way that honors and protects his heart without just assuming that that means he needs to give in to everything that his partner wants or asks for.

Stress, Desire, And Dating Skills

Tamara 14:07

Would you say men are affected by stress more like sexually than is it a factor? Like if if if a man is heart highly stressed, does that affect his sexuality or his libido or generally?

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 14:24

I'm not aware of any research that says that men are differentially affected by stress than women. Both genders um have their desire frequency go up or down. Um most people um down with stress. Some people, often people with really high desire, um, sometimes their desire actually goes up under stress because they um use sexuality as a stress reliever. And if that works for them and their partner, you know that doesn't necessarily need to be a problem.

Tamara 15:02

Yeah, for sure. And um what is the number one thing men can do to improve their ability to date successfully?

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 15:12

Uh well, if we're talking about men dating women, I think it is probably to um get in touch with their um own emotions and vulnerability and to understand, I guess second would be to understand that women dating men often have good and very legitimate reasons to be concerned about their safety with men. So approaching carefully, respectfully, with a lot of open communication about intentions and things like that can really help women to feel safe and then to begin opening up more.

The Double Green Light For Consent

Tamara 15:52

Yeah, because I know a lot of women complain that men bring up sex too soon, but if I'm sure if it felt safe, like you were saying, like if they did it in a way where like I'm attracted to you, I would like to do this at some point, or like some, is there like a wording that you would suggest of how to bring that topic up early on or not?

Porn, Shame, And Mental Health

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 16:10

Or um so one of the things that I often kind of recommend is something that I've come to call the double green light process. So if he has gotten to a point where he's open and interested in a sexual relationship with a partner, for him to say, Hey, you know, I'm feeling really connected to you. Um, I'd be open to beginning or talking about a sexual relationship when you are, but why don't you let me know? He's signaling his own green light. And then to not assume that his green light means that she's ready, right? Then to wait for her to give a green light, maybe to talk about what does it take for you to be ready to have a sexual relationship. Are you the kind of person that would let me know when you're ready? Or are you the kind of person that would send me signals? What would those signals be? So now we're not just assuming that I know what the signals are, or assuming that we're coming from the same culture. In many ways, men and women are coming from very different cultures around these kinds of things. So taking all of the implicit, unknown uncertainties and just making them explicit does a long way to um clearing up any confusion, miscommunications, and allowing each uh partner to be in tune with one another.

Tamara 17:38

Yeah, I definitely agree that as you would know too, since that's what you teach and you know this stuff science-wise. And um, so what are your thoughts on porn? Are they I'm sure it's matters if if someone's addicted or just watching, or is it like are some people think it's a bad thing, some people think it's healthy. What is what are your thoughts on the other thing?

Early Exposure And Real Sex Ed

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 18:00

So uh I I look at um uh the question just when somebody asks it like that, as um porn itself isn't inherently a problem any more than any other behavior that can become compulsive could be a problem, right? What do you think about shopping? Is it good or is it bad? What if people are addicted to it? Is that a problem? Well, similarly, um uh pornography can show up as a problem in people's lives. Um the research shows that um a lot of what makes pornography a problem in a person's life, including the compulsive cycles of trying to quit viewing and then viewing again in compulsive ways, really is whether the person has shame about viewing it, which can show up because of a lot of different things. Are you hiding that from your partner because your partner is grossed out by that idea? Maybe that's something that you need to talk with your partner about. Is it something that um you have religiously based shame or culturally based shame around? Do you have a lot of conflict or shame about what you like to view and the fact that those things or those kinds of things turn you on? Now, there are some people who have um compulsive behaviors because of depression. They're trying to cover their mental health issue, or ADHD because they're very impulsive, or the OCD, so they're very compulsive. And all of those different mental health causes of compulsive behavior look a little bit different, and they have slightly different um solutions. In all of those cases, um, the problem isn't the porn, but it's the underlying mental health that is causing a problem with pornography in the same way that we can imagine a person with ADHD or depression or OCD having a problem with playing too many video games. They're getting sucked into it, they're not giving attention to their relationships, they're not taking care of themselves, they're not coming out of a fantasy world into reality, they're not understanding the difference between the fantasy world and the reality. There are Problems that can come up with porn, but often they're, again, they're not related to pornography directly. For example, when people don't have good science-based sex education and they view the fantasies in porn as education. I often use the analogy: just because we watch action movies doesn't mean I want to, you know, tie a fire hose around my chest and jump off of a building like they do in Die Hard, but I might still like to watch an action movie. If I understand the difference between real sex and pornography, it's not necessarily a problem. But the problem there is the absence of real sex education.

Tamara 20:54

Yeah, I know obviously in this newer generation, they've had access to it, you know, from as long as they're old enough to click. So how is that affecting men nowadays, would you say, or earlier access to it?

Resources: MakeLoveNotPorn And Scarleteen

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 21:09

Aaron Powell So uh doing a really thorough um analysis, uh research-based analysis on this grand social experiment that we're engaging in is um I haven't seen definitive answers to the conclusions around it. Um what there is some evidence around already is that early childhood exposure to sexual material tends to increase the frequency of desire. Um and if we have an entire culture of boys who are experiencing exposure to pornography at 10, 11, 12, um, and an entire culture of girls that aren't exposed to sexual material until much older, if ever, we're creating a real divide between the two genders and their relationship to frequency and to sexual material. Um, I think that can cause problems. It may be causing problems, but again, a lot of people will put out assertions about that without research to back it up. So I tend to be very cautious about looking at it and try to address individual problems to try to attend to the presence or absence of shame. And I also just as um uh Betty Dodson did for women, um, I really like to try to encourage men to reclaim the right of masturbation for themselves as a part of their own whole human sexuality. Now, if that includes for him in his healthy behavior, looking at pornography, I don't know that anybody else has a right to tell him that that's not okay. If he has a partner and he's trying to do things from pornography that isn't talked about with her about or with him about, that's a problem. But again, I see that as a consent problem and as a sexual education problem instead of it being a porn problem.

Tamara 23:18

Yeah. I guess I was implying that the when they learned sex that young from porn, they think that is their sex education. And then, like you said, they try all that stuff out without the consent. Because I've heard a lot of younger women are like not having so great experiences with dating and treated.

How To Work With Eric

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 23:35

Debbie Herbenick, um, for example, has done some good research about um choking showing up in sexuality. But uh, why do we blame I would just ask kind of this larger sociological question, right? Why do we blame the boys for viewing the pornography and for going out into the world without better sexual education rather than looking at parents and making sure that they understand the imperative that they give their boys clear guidance about sexuality, what works and what doesn't, and consent, in that it would include differentiating what they might see in pornography from um uh what real sex is. And why don't we protect boys um and kind of impress upon parents or the larger um media landscape the imperative to um regulate um the viewing of pornography by younger children better? I think those things are not a problem with the existence of pornography, they are a dysregulation and access problem that can be put on legislators and parents in a slightly different way.

Tamara 24:55

Yeah, yeah, I agree. That makes sense. And I know a lot of schools are doing away with sex education and like and then parents are afraid to talk about it. So it's like, and then I do know there's a site I'm sure you're aware, the make love not porn.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 25:10

Yeah, absolutely. Um there's uh we could talk about that for a moment. I I'd also mention the Scarlatine website, which offers teens science-based sex education and parents guidance on how to provide it. Um, but yeah, make love not porn. Um, I forget the creator's name, but she's a wonderful advocate for differentiating porn for a male gaze, as it's um often created, and real sexual behavior between couples, including a really ethical model for subscribe for pay for the performers, that I think is really revolutionary.

Tamara 25:51

Yeah, yeah, I think so too. And and I hadn't heard of the first one you mentioned. So if you want to talk more about that, I'm happy to hear as well.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 25:57

Uh I mean, I don't know that I have more to say about it. Scarletine is a website that provides um science-based sex education for teens. And it's one that parents can also take a look at and get some resources for how and what to talk with teens about.

Tamara 26:14

Okay. And it's Scarletine, like the word scarlet with Ian at the end. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, just make it share in. Yeah. Got it. All right. Well, or if you want to share how people can work with you if they want to work with you or under know how to find your book, all the things about you. Yeah. I'm happy to hear that now.

Closing Reframe Of Male Sexuality

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 26:31

Working with me as a therapist is restricted to the state of California because my license is in California. So if you're interested in that, you could find me at drericfitz.com. It's dr e-r-i-c f I z dot com. You can also find me on most major social media at drericfitz. Again, dr-e-r-i-c f I t-z dot com.

Tamara 26:57

Okay. All right. And then are there any closing thoughts or takeaways you want to leave the listeners?

Outro And Ratings Request

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 27:03

Yeah, I just, you know, there's a lot of um a lot of the messages that exist about male sexuality are really negative. That men only want one thing, men's desire is out of control, men are sex addicts, men are porn addicts, men are masturbation addicts, men's sexuality is a problem. And I really um like to just invite men to believe that male sexuality at its root is healthy and whole. And if you find that there's something that isn't working in your sexuality, for you to believe that something might have gone wrong somewhere, and that's okay to attend to, but to believe that the root and the core of your sexuality is good and beautiful will allow you to explore whatever traumas might have led, or pain, or mental health issues might have led to dysregulation and might allow you to reclaim the beautiful gift that your sexuality is to yourself and to any partners you might have.

Tamara 28:11

All right, awesome. Thank you. Great information. And if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well. And thank you again, Eric, for being on.

Dr Eric Fitzmedrud 28:21

Glad to be here.

Tamara 28:23

All right, thanks everyone.

Outro 28:24

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