Why We Choose Toxic Love #127

We explore how early attachment wounds can lead to love addiction and toxic relationships, and we share practical tools to build secure connection from the inside out. Sherry Gaba offers clear signs of toxicity, explains trauma bonds and love bombing, and outlines somatic ways to heal.

• how insecure attachment forms and drives partner choice
• why love bombing hooks the nervous system
• signs you are in a toxic relationship
• jealousy as a symptom of insecurity and past betrayal
• difference and overlap between codependency and love addiction
• somatic, polyvagal, and parts work for self-regulation
• breaking trauma bonds and pacing intimacy
• transgenerational trauma and epigenetics as context
• resources, books, and next steps for support

If anybody is struggling right now and they are looking for a therapist, I do 15-minute consults for free
I also have a free ebook for anybody if they want to go to sherrygaba.com forward slash npquiz
So if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well. And also follow the show, of course.

Transcript

Meet Sherry Gaba And Her Focus

Tamara 0:00

Hello, Tamara here. Welcome to the show. Today's guest is Sherry Gaba. She's a licensed psychotherapist and life coach who helps people cope with codependency, love addiction, toxic relationships, and mental health issues. Thanks for joining me, Sherry.

Sherry 0:15

Hi, Tamara. Thank you for having me. Love what you're doing in the world.

Trauma And Attachment Basics

Tamara 0:20

Thank you. Yeah, I mean you have an impressive resume yourself. Uh, and I'm happy to get right into it with the first question, and then we can talk maybe a little bit about some of the your resume if you want to as well. But I will start with the what does trauma have to do with picking toxic relationships?

Sherry 0:37

If you have early trauma and you don't get that nurturing that you need from your parents, you're gonna probably develop an insecure or insecure, ambivalent, or disorganized attachment style. And we developed this from our attachment styles with our parents. Um, if parents exhibit being nurturing and caring and attentive, um, then you're probably gonna have a more secure attachment, which would make you less prone to picking someone toxic. Um, you know, if you had parents that are cold or rejecting or emotionally detached, you know, these children don't know what to expect. So they're, you know, they're not gonna pick the best partners. They're gonna kind of, you know, duplicate what they know. We usually pick what we know. So then they become adults who desire a lot of connection with their relationships, but then all of a sudden they become very clingy and desperate. Um, they're highly aware of these changes in the relationship. Um, it can really increase their anxiety when they have this kind of attachment disorder. And it's, you know, it starts with your early attachment with your caregivers. So um, this person's usually going to focus their energy on increasing connection with their partner. They're going to need more validation and approval. Um, it's basically an attempt to recover the loss of their childhood. You know, when a child receives lots of love and nurturing, they feel secure. But if they grow up without that, um, they're gonna feel a lot, they're gonna feel insecure and they're gonna have those other attachment styles. So that person's likely gonna grow, if they have good parenting, they're going to grow up with a good sense of themselves, they're gonna feel complete, um, they're gonna be able to help, you know, create healthy boundaries. But without that nurturing, they just have very poor self-esteem, they're insecure, and that's gonna lead them to maybe becoming a relationship addict, a love addict, um, because they had parents that were physically or emotionally unavailable. Um, they might have been neglected or abused, they might have had a parent that was divorced, so they became a parentified child where they had to kind of take care of all their parents' needs. Um, some come from intact functional families, and then they end up becoming love addicts, maybe when they become a peer because they want to fit in, they get bullied. But generally it's this kind of childhood where they didn't get their needs met. So we know that the greater the intensity of those unmet needs, the stronger their love addiction is gonna be. And they're trying to relieve that childhood. They're trying to make their childhood right. And obviously, another person can't make it right. So being in that relationship, they think is gonna relieve those negative feelings they had as children. Um, but it it doesn't. It ends up being very obsessive, uh, very possessive. They end up picking very controlling, manipulating people, often narcissists. Are they gonna be like a toxic relationship? Um, so it's you know, in a nutshell, it's an unconscious attempt to satisfy that developmental hunger that they didn't get.

Tamara 3:42

Yeah, and I was gonna say, if but if they have a secure partner, can they heal that childhood stuff through the through a secure partner? I know it might be harder for them to actually be sustain a relationship with a secure partner, but is that something that can happen or is it more self-soothing and you have to do the work yourself?

Sherry 4:00

Well, you have to do the work. No one's gonna, you know, make it all okay. You have to be able to regulate your own nervous system, you have to be comfortable in your own skin. However, if you're picking secure, you're you're on the right track. At least you're not picking someone toxic, you're not picking someone insecure. Um, you know, some have the theory that a good relationship you can end up being reparented in some way. But I think that's a lot of responsibility for another partner if you're very needy, very uh clingy. I you you really need to find your own therapist, work on your own pain, you need to fix your own fear, fix your discomfort. Uh, definitely hire a trauma therapist. There's a lot of talk therapists out there. You really need someone that will go even deeper with the neglect that you experience, the abandonment, the chaos that you grew up in. And then, yes, if you have somebody secure and you're in therapy and you're working towards becoming a more secure person, I think you absolutely can be with someone secure. But if you're someone still desperate, still craving, still clinging, still needy, you're probably gonna push a secure person away.

Tamara 5:04

Yeah. And is jealousy part of that too? Like, is that part of what you're talking about, or is that a different thing?

Sherry 5:11

If you're not secure inside, you're probably gonna feel jealous. If you were abandoned by a parent, you're gonna probably feel jealous. If you've had a parent that cheated, you're probably gonna feel jealous. If you have a history of being cheated on, you're probably gonna have these issues. So, you know, the whole adages is to come into a relationship in a really whole way so you can meet another whole person. Um, we don't always start out that way. Sometimes people grow together, sometimes one grows, sometimes the other doesn't, but you have a much better chance of attracting a healthy person if you've done the work. But the problem is for love addicts, they don't want to do the work. There's so much discomfort and agony being alone. I mean, that was my story. I write about it in my book Love Smacked, um, which is on Amazon and Audible, Amazon Kindle and Audible. I talk a lot about my multiple relationships, going from one relationship to the next. It's it's like death being it was like death being alone. And so what did that set me up for? Alcoholics, toxic relationships, being abandoned. I was looking for them to fill what I needed to fill within myself. And um, that that never turns out well. So um that's the problem with not fixing your issues, is you're gonna be more prone to predator, you know, toxic people, narcissists, etc.

Tamara 6:33

Yeah. And I was you can go either way. I was gonna say, do you want to say more about how you healed that or talk about, I know you mentioned love addiction. Do you want to say more about that, or do you think that's I can cover both, really?

Jealousy, Love Addiction, And Doing The Work

Sherry 6:44

Um, I found a really great trauma therapist. I was a therapist at the time, but I didn't know anything about trauma work. So I found this amazing therapist who did somatic work, and that's what I'm um uh I'm certified in uh somatic work, polyvagal, which is you know, getting your nervous system regulated. I do stuff with parts work, kind of befriending your different parts. But the somatic work itself really allowed me to be comfortable in my own skin. I was able to discharge a lot of the energy around uh my early trauma, which was in my story. Sometimes people find it interesting. I was in an incubator. My mother didn't hold me for two and a half months. Um, I'm 66, so in those days, they were afraid the mother would pass on the germs. And so I didn't get that early attachment. I'm all I was almost like a one of these, you know, Romanian uh, you know, uh orphan children, exactly. So um I came into the world just very hungry, very desperate, needing attention. Um, in those days they didn't do the things they do today for premies. Now they give preemies, you know, lots of extra attention. They know that that attachment is vital. Um, and then you know, my mother was uh somewhat of I wouldn't call her, she was a bit of a narcissist, she had some traits. She was an alcoholic, she wasn't always present, so that didn't help. My father was amazing. I really had a great relationship with my dad. I think that was fantastic, but it still had that mother wound, which um could combine that with being premature really set me up for a lot of really difficult relationships, a lot of separation anxiety, a lot of attachment issues, um, and just picking, just picking for all the wrong reasons. Um, but I don't want people if they've had similar experiences, there's nothing to beat yourself up about. You didn't know that. You don't know why you're doing these things. It's it's unconscious. Um there's always help though. There's programs, there's um my book, my book is a great start. There's meetings out there on love addiction. Um, there are all kinds of things out there to help you heal that wound.

Tamara 8:55

Yeah, and would I know they have um codependent no more as the book, I believe, and then they also have um programs for that. Is that similar to like love addiction, or is it someone would have that if they have love addiction?

Somatic Therapy And Sherry’s Story

Sherry 9:07

So you can be a codependent and not be a love addict, but I think most love addicts are codependent because you're looking for someone else to validate you, fill you up. You don't feel needed unless you're in a relationship. But you can be a codependent, you can be like the parent that's always volunteering because you want to please. You can be the person at the church or the temple that's always volunteering. You're never saying no, you don't have boundaries. So it's it's separate, but kind of overlaps. I definitely have both. I think codependency is a lot about people pleasing. Um, I know Mel Robbins wrote a book called Let Them. That's a huge thing right now. You know, about just let them, like not worrying about other people think, you know, being your authentic self. Um, but takes it's it's time takes time, you know. And if you didn't get what you needed early on, you are gonna look for others to please. You're gonna get into relationships where you turn yourself into a pretzel to please. You don't have that sense of that core self. And so when you ask me how did therapy help me, doing the trauma therapy really helped me develop this core self. And so I didn't need to run after anything to feel good inside. Um, really, the opposite of addiction, whether it's food or sex or love or alcoholism or substances or gambling or shopping is really connection. And so the trauma work and working with a great trauma therapist helps you learn how to connect with yourself. You learn how to self-soothe, you learn how to self-regulate. Um, you don't need like I was the type that if something didn't work out, I was like on the phone with my friends, on the phone with my mother, like whoever would listen to me. Like I couldn't regulate my own emotions. And today that's not the case. And so I can be patient, I can be single and be happy. Um, I hope someday I find somebody, but it's not my only sense of self.

Tamara 10:58

How would you say you know if you are in a toxic relationship?

Sherry 11:02

Um, you know you're in a toxic relationship if you're constantly ruminating and obsessing about the that person. When you give up everything just to be with that person, like I was saying earlier, you kind of turn yourself into a pretzel just to be with that person. You twist your personality, you twist your values. Um, I was dating someone that was one political party on the other. And unfortunately, this person was constantly trying to get me to be on their side of their political party. And so in order to sometimes avoid fighting, I kind of like went, okay, okay. And then I realized, no, no, no, no, I'm losing myself, trying to please this person. It's not, it's not healthy for someone trying to change you. That's never a good sign. Um, and and and being controlling about it. Another would be walking on eggshells and then uh feeling guilty for everything because they're probably trying to control you. So then you start to feel guilty. Oh, am I doing something wrong? What am I doing wrong? So you kind of second guess yourself. There's a lot of fighting, could be physical, could be verbal, it could be emotional, a lot of manipulation, controlling behaviors. Um, they feel a toxic person will feel they have the right to tell you how to spend your time, how to dress, how to do your hair. Um, another example would be I love to travel. I have a girlfriend that I travel with. I was in a relationship with someone who didn't want me to travel with this person. Like, no, you can't travel with her, you have to be with me. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. That's I want to travel. And if you can't afford to travel, you're not available to travel, I'm gonna travel. So you're trying, and you know, so for a minute, I almost like agreed with that. And I realized, no, no, no, that's not who I want to be in the world. So it's somebody that's constantly at you, trying to change you, trying to make you what they want you to be. A lot of yelling, insulting can be physical, a lot of disrespect, dishonesty, lying, and most important, just losing yourself. You stop taking care of yourself. There's a lack of self-care, um, start neglecting your parents, the activities, your hobbies. You just let go of who you are to be with this person.

Tamara 13:25

Yeah, I can see that. And then how do there are people apparently that are become addicted to these kinds of relationships? What's the what what's the benefit of that? Or why do they do that?

Codependency Versus Love Addiction

Sherry 13:37

Well, why do people get addicted? Um, because they don't want to be alone. And there's also what's known as a trauma bond. So someone someone who has love-bombed you and love addicts are very, very vulnerable to being love-bombed because they want to be with someone so badly. So when someone gives them a lot of attention and they're, you know, I want to, I want to marry you, or you know, they're sending you flowers all the time, like way over the top, someone who's very vulnerable and very empty is going to be like, oh, this feels so good. This feels so good. Then they kind of suck you in if they're a narcissist or toxic person, and then everything changes. Now they have you, and now all the abuse starts, all the physical or not sorry, emotional, verbal, possibly physical. So be you have to be very aware of these love bombs. If someone's way over the top and they're beginning of dating, probably it's not healthy. It should be slow and steady, call you, you know, here and there, ask you out. Just a very calm sort of uh flow. But if someone is just like, uh, be aware, then you're then you're kind of getting attached to that love-bombing behavior, and then they change and you keep looking for that old behavior that they gave you in the beginning, and now you're in a trauma bond. And once you're in a trauma bond, it's much harder to get out.

Tamara 14:58

Yeah, actually, I know someone who, you know, he seemed like Prince Charming until they got married, and then he started like physically abusing her, and then he ended up shooting his next uh relationship. Like she lived, but she got you know, he shot her. And is in jail now at least. So yeah, it's definitely and he was like total Prince Charming until Yeah. Yeah, the wedding day.

Sherry 15:19

What I do, that's my specialty, working with people to help them break free. Uh what or if they have broken free, but they can't seem to let go of that addiction to it, to that ruminating. You know, it's really hard. It's not easy. And the other part of a trauma bond is being addicted to the highs and lows. And then when that's gone and that person is gone, it's like, oh now who am I? What do I what what now what? Like you but you actually have changed your nervous system. So they do a lot of work on regulating your system and calming, helping calm you down and helping you be feel grounded and centered. I mean, it's it's work, but it's it's definitely possible.

Tamara 15:58

Yeah, that's awesome that it's possible. Yeah. Always overcome that.

Sherry 16:03

There's always hope. There's always hope. Absolutely. Yeah, and I know what I was just gonna say I have all kinds of blogs on my website at sherygaba.com. I have my book on Amazon and uh Audible, Love Smacked. Um, I have a couple of courses there on narcissism and love addiction. I mean, there's all kinds of things out there, but they can start with looking at my blogs, and I think they'll get a lot of information. And I have, you know, I have an Instagram account at CodependencyCurious, and I'm always posting things there. So it's there's a lot out there for this type of thing.

Tamara 16:40

Okay. And we are on the same page because I was gonna actually ask you about your resume because I know you've you've been on TV as well, um, talking about this kind of stuff, and you're a leading expert on addiction and recovery. So if you want to talk about any of that as well.

Sherry 16:54

Yeah, I started my career doing a lot of that back in when Celebrity Rehab was on TV. That was a one uh cable show with Dr. Drew, and that morphed into a couple of books related to addiction. Um, and then I started realizing I really don't, I kind of moved away from that and into more codependency and love addiction because I felt like, you know, I'm not the addict, I'm not the alcoholic. I was married to one. I don't really want to talk about this. I want to help people with what I know and what I've struggled with. So um that's how it sort of changed. I still work with people that are struggling with addiction, but really my specialty now is trauma, codependency, and toxic relationships and healing from those things. I also have a free ebook for anybody if they want to go to sherrygaba.com forward slash npquiz. Sherrygaba.com forward slash npquiz. It's a free book, a book on narcissistic partners.

Tamara 17:52

Okay. And you also talk about transgenerational trauma. Is do you want to talk about that too?

Spotting Toxic Relationship Patterns

Sherry 17:58

Sure. So basically, um we, you know, our trauma doesn't just start with us, it starts with our parents, it starts with our grandparents. And I think about, you know, my own grandmother was married four times, my mother ended up with a con man after my dad died. I've had multiple relationships that didn't work out. So I think there's a history in my family of love addiction and codependency, and it starts with our grandparents. And, you know, if you think about the way our ancestors were were as women, you know, let's just start with women. There was a lot of um, we didn't have a voice, and everything we did was to please the man, and we couldn't own property, and we couldn't vote. And so if you think about how that gets carried down, no wonder a lot of women lose themselves in relationships because we weren't, we didn't have much, you know, when you look at our our ancestors. Um, so some of the work involved with transgenerational trauma is really looking at our ancestors, looking at our histories, maybe doing a little work around, not necessarily psychic work, right? We don't talk to them per se, but we kind of think of how would how did that affect me? And what might that person say if they were still here? You know, what would be like, or using like I had a grandmother that was up to me. So when I'm having a hard time, I I think to myself, what would my grandmother do? Or how could I imagine my grandmother here as this protective ally that is here to love me, even though at the moment I'm not feeling really good? I know she's here, her energy is here. So it's a little woo-woo, but it's it's really based on you know who we are. It started a long time ago. And sometimes it helps fit the missing piece. Like, why am I like this? Why am I stuck? Um, think about what's happening in the world with the wars and what's happening with the anti-Semitism, or what's happening to the Palestinian people, or this stuff carries generation after generation of generation of trauma, and there's a lot of anger out there, and there's a lot of violence out there. There's like where where did this start? You know, where did it start in your original family of origin, or did it start way before that? You know, think about slaves, think about, you know, the there's just so many things that we can't explain that are that are in our genes that have nothing to do with maybe our lived experience, but it had to do with our ancestors.

Tamara 20:26

Yeah, I read a book where they talked about um they had mice and they gave them like the scent of cherry and then they would shock them, and then like their the grandkid would just smell cherry and then they would they would like they would be nervous about it, you know. It's like in the genes itself. So yeah, it's definitely Exactly.

Sherry 20:45

Like it's it it's called epigenetics and it lives in our DNA. And I mean when October 7th happened, um I've had I have relatives that died during the Holocaust that lived in ghettos. I mean, that's my experience. Other people have different experiences, and I I have compassion for all experiences of whatever trauma someone has is has come from. Um that really shook me up because I have I just I mean, this was really scary, what happened that day to the people there. And and then you I mean there's so many, I mean I don't want to get into a political conversation, but but there's so much involved and there's so much trauma on all sides. Truly.

Tamara 21:25

Yeah. And then they all there's people that say that we're all like five-year-olds basically like you know, deep down we're five-year-olds fighting and it's just never having tempered tantrums kind of thing.

Love Bombing And Trauma Bonds

Sherry 21:36

So yeah, if we haven't, you know, discharged the energy of something that might have happened to us at a younger age. If we're kind of stuck there developmentally, it's gonna affect us. You know, they say like with addicts and alcoholics, they're developmentally the age they were when they started drinking. I think that for me, I'm developed in some ways, without doing the work, I was developmentally the age I was when I came to the world and I had no attachment figure. I mean, it's it's we have to work this energetically out. And that's where somatic work comes in and uh nervous system regulation work, uh parts work, loving all those parts. You know, in my case, loving them. Little wounded baby in the incubator, uh loving the resilient me, loving all those parts and accepting all those parts. Um it's fascinating stuff.

Tamara 22:28

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Are there is there anything I missed that you wanted to share or kind of like final comments?

Sherry 22:34

Or no, this was great. If anybody is struggling right now and they are looking for a therapist, I do 15-minute consults for free. Um, if they want to just check out my book, go to Amazon or Audible for Love Smacked and uh go to Sherry Gabit, sherrygabit.com, and there's lots of free resources there.

Tamara 22:53

Okay. Well, thank you very much for being on. Great information, and hopefully, like you said, this helps someone, or at least even if they don't even know what cycle they're in or what you know, what they're trapped in, they can recognize themselves, maybe. So if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well. And also follow the show, of course. Thank you again, Sherry.

Sherry 23:13

Thank you.

Tamara 23:15

All right, bye everyone. Thanks.

Sherry 23:17

Frank Talk! Frank Talk Sex and Dating Educates.