Getting Out Of Your Head Can Actually Save Your Relationship #128

What if the traits we celebrate in men—toughness, self-reliance, powering through—are the very habits pulling them away from health, love, and purpose? Men’s embodiment coach Jason Lange joins us to trace how boys are taught to leave their bodies, why that blunts emotion and intimacy, and how to rebuild connection from the ground up.

We dig into the invisible training many boys receive: stop crying, sit still, think your way out. Jason explains how emotions begin as sensations and how years of numbing make it hard to identify, let alone share, what’s real. From the “Man Box” to the dysfunction of swipe culture, we unpack the pressures that reward status over presence and leave too many men isolated. Then we pivot to solutions. Jason breaks down the power of men’s groups—small circles that rewire the nervous system for safety and belonging. You’ll hear how vasopressin and oxytocin shape bonding and help men connect, and how simple somatic practices unlock grief, fear, and anger without letting those states run your life.

If this conversation resonates, share it with someone who needs it, hit follow, and leave a quick review so more people can find the show. Your words help others step out of the Man Box and into real connection.

Transcript

Meet Jason Ling And His Work

Tamara 0:00

Hello, Tamara here. Welcome to the show. Today's guest is Jason Ling. He's a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and evolutionary guide. Thanks for joining me, Jason.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

So excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

What Men’s Embodiment Really Means

Tamara 0:14

Yes, I'm very interested to hear about these topics. So let's get started. And what exactly is a men's embodiment coach to you?

How Boys Learn To Numb Their Bodies

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Yeah, so um men's embodiment coach is really just a men's coach, but with a particular emphasis on getting men connected to their bodies, including their emotions as well. So in my kind of school and lineage and training, you know, even emotional content starts as physical sensation in the body. So as men in particular, if we're not in our bodies, we're often less connected to our emotions and our hearts. And one of the big challenges so many men have across the spectrum these days, whether it's just communicating, tracking their own well-being, intimacy, you name it, is from a young age in our culture, boys are mostly taught to get out of their bodies. Paradoxical to what a lot of people think, but many boys are still raised in the frame of stop crying. You're okay, be tough. Get up. It's not that bad. You can just kind of think of some of the narratives that go from no, it happens to girls too, but I think particularly to boys. And what's important about that from an early age is what it's really saying is, hey, whatever's happening in your body, ignore it and override it with your head. And then most kids get put into schooling and, you know, our kind of school system as it stands, even less than when I was a kid, you know, there's less PE, there's less gym, there's less movement. Sit still, don't move. And there's plenty of research. Young boys in particular with their hormone profiles need to move. Like their bodies learn through moving. They need to move energy through their body. I saw one test result recently that was like many of the um educational testing gaps that are showing up now between girls and boys can be erased if you just start with about two hours of vigorous exercise a day. And then boys catch right up. The point being, you know, even if you're in school, you start moving around, sit still. Oh, there's something wrong with this kid. He's got ADHD. He can't sit still. Let's put him on some kind of meds. Then boys get into junior high, you know, adolescence, and we kind of become each other's worst enemies. Our bodies are developing at different rates. There's a huge pressure to be cool, to be tough, to not share anything that might be ammo for bullying, whether it's physical, like a lot of guys I've worked with or emotional. So we learn to keep everything inside. Again, whatever's happening in your body, override it. And then we launch, you know, boys into men out in the workplace. And what are most guys celebrated for? And what do they mostly celebrate each other for? Oh my God, he's such, he works 80 hours a week. He's such a tough worker. He's uh, what does that come at the cost of? Being in our bodies. To do that is often quite harmful. The long and short of that, embodiment coach is teaching men to get out of our heads and into our bodies and more connected to our direct body experience, which does in fact impact pretty much all facets of our life, and particularly our sex and intimacy lives.

Tamara 3:47

Yeah. I mean, the description you were just giving was like making me feel sad or like heavy, just like imagining going through all that and having to deal with all that.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Yeah, exactly.

Tamara 3:58

Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, I've heard something similar, but never quite all in one place like that. Like the, you know, the whole line of just how their lives go. And I know it's yeah. And they're and it's suicide rates are higher for men, especially after a divorce.

Stoicism, Isolation, And Risk

SPEAKER_01 4:13

And yeah, it's the numbers are just trending in the wrong direction. And these things are all related, right? Um I there's another research study that's that like, yeah, you know, we like to think as men, these are ideal attributes, right? Stoicism. You know, I use my mind, I don't get too reactive, I'm very self-reliant. Uh in my work, we often kind of talk about the myth of the Marlboro man. Really romantic notion we have, particularly here in the United States, of the rugged, super tough cowboy out on his own, doesn't need anything from anyone, hyper-individualized. And that's what our culture tends to celebrate. And what they found is when they um crack men who subscribe to those kind of more traditional aspects of masculinity, they're even higher, more likely to commit suicide. Like there's a direct correlation between keeping it all inside in our mental and emotional health and even our physical health, right? Tons of research over the last years of the social isolation isolation, feeling lonely, just as dangerous as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. And because of all these cultural forces, that hits a lot more men than women. And social media, parasocial relationships, it's just all accelerating it. And then last thing I'll just say is because we're not encouraged or trained or taught to be in our bodies and connect to our emotions, we often don't know what they are. So we can't identify what's happening inside of us, let alone share it with a partner, right? Here's what I'm feeling. When I first got into this work like 20 years ago, I basically had good, bad, and fine. That was how I could describe my inner experience and didn't give people I was relating to a lot of room to work with. And then inevitably, right, things that adversely impact us happen and we don't feel good inside. We haven't been taught to name it, let alone what to do with it or how to get help with it. So what do most guys do? We turn to things outside of ourselves to try to make ourselves feel better on the inside. Alcohol, weed, porn and masturbation, overeating, video games, overworking, you name it. And ultimately, that doesn't help.

Tamara 6:46

Yeah, I was gonna say too, I would think, you know, the only emotion that comes out with all that frustration would be anger too. And that could be why the domestic abuse and all that stuff happens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Yeah, it's basically for uh for a lot of people, that's the only emotion men are allowed to feel. Oh, he can feel angry, yeah, it's tough. But fear? No. Grief? No. Anything like that, suddenly, you know, we we start to judge and all the the name calling and things that you could imagine actually still do happen.

Tamara 7:17

Yeah. Well, I'm assuming that leads to what you do next, the group facilitator, to try to overcome this stuff. Like I'm just like I said, I feel I feel it. You know, I just feel the angst that would come with all that. So how do groups help people?

Coping With Pain And Addictions

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah, the so I love coaching men one-on-one, but my particular passion is getting men into small groups. So men's groups, men's circle, you can call them whatever you want. And what I have just seen both in my own life, as I've been in groups now for about two decades, and I've led thousands of groups at this point, help men start groups, is it's one of the quickest vehicles for transforming that and helping men have the experience of, oh, there can be another way. And right uh all across the spectrum in in our planet and culture right now, really one of the missing needed needed medicines is connection. Just the feeling of being connected to other people. Even if we're just talking only at a stress level, and our vagal nerve, which goes down the center of our body, it's one of the main mechanisms for co-regulating each other, is facing someone, making eye contact, and breathing with them, really. A men's group is one of the first places sometimes men will ever experience that from other men. And so kind of our default culture, right, as men is we relate through what I kind of call triangulation. Me and another guy, and we have our attention on some third thing, and it's through that our connection gets built. Repairing an engine, thinking about philosophy or politics or video games or fishing. And there's a time and place for that that's really useful, and uh it should be part of anyone's life. But I count I talk to countless guys who, oh yeah, I just spent the whole weekend with my buddies, and none of them know my wife's about to leave me. Because what men don't really know how to do is turn their attention towards each other. Hey, what's going on for you? Where are you in pain? What are you wanting? And there's tons of things you can do to lead a men's group, but in a big way, just slowing men down to get connected to their bodies and feelings and putting attention on each other is kind of the the most base layer thing we can do that starts to change while men experience themselves and each other.

Tamara 9:59

Have you heard of the Sterling Sterling men's group and women's groups?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yeah, Sterling's been um around quite a long time. They're they're they're one of the um OGs in the space, you could say.

Tamara 10:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

I just I know many men that have gone through that.

Tamara 10:13

Yeah, it just seems like also and if you know Queen's Code, there's just like how to relate to each other better. And then those seem they seem to like you bring men together and you also bring the couples together too that way. But yeah. But yeah. And then um what is the man box?

Why Anger Becomes The Only Outlet

How Men’s Groups Create Safety

SPEAKER_01 10:29

That's one of the Yeah, we we actually started touching on this a little bit, but the idea of the man box is it's literally the box we are expected to conform to as men. And it's really a a list of check boxes, right? Do you check this off, do you check this off? If you do, you're considered a man. If you don't, you're not considered a man. And you know, some of the most obvious ones that are pretty cross-cultural are men shouldn't be vulnerable, men shouldn't cry, vulnerability is weakness. A big one I have to work with a lot of my clients is if sex is available to you as a man, you should take it. And if you don't, something is wrong with you. This is a big pressure for men. And it changes a little bit across cultures, but it really boils down to to be a man is to be invulnerable and not need anyone, is one of the big forces we get coming at us. And what happens if you don't check those boxes, right, is where all the awful things that isolate men come. And there's even there's this wild research study um that came out, and you know, I just want to be clear, I don't necessarily agree with this, but it was just this is what they found. They polled both men and women around two things. First was what marks the transition from a girl to become to becoming a woman? And what marks the transition from a boy to becoming a man? And across both men and women who responded, for girls, the emphasis was on physicality. She started her cycle, her body developed. She's a woman now. For boys, interestingly enough, from both men and women, it was not based on their physiology. It was based on how he is showing up in his life with his family, with his culture, et cetera. So you could be a fully mature man, so to speak, physically, but still be considered a boy. And we see this all the time now. Failure to launch, he's a mama's boy, all that kind of stuff. Again, just pointing to for men in particular, there tends to be this kind of cultural thing that defines the man, which is more based on certain actions. And then we have these really unhealthy stereotypes that still exist, narrowly define that for men. And that's what ends up causing some of them very many problems for them of isolation, loneliness, because oh my God, I can't share this with anyone, so I got to hold it inside. Turns out it's really painful. So I'm gonna go drink my pain away, right? And it just starts to spiral down from there.

Tamara 13:19

Yeah, and I was just saying the dating world too, with the apps, you know, yes. 80% of men don't get many matches of any, and 20% get all of them. It's the same kind of stereotypes, I'm sure. And then obviously that's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Aaron Powell Well, that's a great example, right? Even um you might not think of it, but like uh part of the man box would be a man should be taller and bigger in stature than me. Like the the stat that was going along around from Logan Uri a couple months ago, I think was it was something crazy. Like something like 98% of women, if it's available on a dating app, immediately put the height filter to minimum six feet tall. And it's something only like I think eight or nine percent of men are actually over six feet tall. So there's this thing of a man should be, you know, this tall. And just by setting that, you've immediately eliminated the great majority of the dating tool. And again, it's one of those pressures. And, you know, I'm not, I'm not here to say us guys don't do that in the reverse as well. That's just the dysfunction of online dating in a lot of ways. But that's a great example of another version of the man box that you know, a man can't if a man's short, he's not as much a man.

Tamara 14:37

Yeah. And I'm a taller woman, fairly like five'eight, and I've dated several shorter men, and they're women women are missing out when they filter that way. Like there's they're like some of the best relationships I've had.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

So Yeah.

Tamara 14:51

Yeah. Yeah. This yeah, once again, I'm like, I don't know. This is somehow this is really affecting me. Like, I don't know. It's just I feel just so like sad for that whole the state of all this.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

So yeah. Yeah, and it's it's it's you know, every the the reports that come out are pretty bleak every year, and we see it really hitting our youth even more. Obviously, we're we're living in a moment in our country where we just had another example of when a displayed boy does something. This is a real thing, you know, in our culture of something about the current setup isn't supporting boys and men in the way we need. And we have responsibility in that as boys and men that we need to take on, and our culture does as well. But one thing, you know, again, that I've just seen is just getting connected to other people below other men below the surface. Yeah, not just the default chatting, but actually getting deeper does seem to do something for men and make them feel connected and bonded. And you know, I learned this wild thing last year. Maybe you know of you know, while there are tons of similarities, there are a few differences between male and female bodies, one of which is um our receptors for certain hormones. And we've all heard of oxytocin, which is kind of a love connection hormone. And oddly enough, it the same hormone that's there's another hormone that's kind of a grandparent of that. And its other grandchild is called vasopressin, which is another type of bonding hormone. And it turns out male bodies have a few more receptors for vasopressin versus oxytocin. And how vasopressin works, oddly enough, is it creates connection by doing tough, stressful things together. And so for a lot of men, we bond through doing. And one of the interesting things I've seen that a men's group can do is what we're bonding through, the stressful thing we're bonding to, is actually getting through life together, managing the ups and downs of relationships and finances and kids, and confronting often these deep emotional pains that so many men are just ill-equipped to be present with. But when we do it, what I've seen is incredible bonding between men and this feeling of, oh my God, I am not alone. I actually have men that have my back. And that in itself can be so transformative for mental health for men in particular.

The Man Box And Its Costs

Tamara 17:48

Yeah, I've heard that as well recently. Especially like through work. That's kind of how like the stress, the stress of work and all the doing, like you said, actually brings up testosterone or brings up, like you said, the the hormone you said as well. But um, like that it stresses women out to work that hard, but it's actually like positive for men to work that hard. And but yeah, so that's another plus you guys have. So and I was gonna say, back to, I mean, I'd rather talk about solutions, but I just want to say one of the causes I think also is um that you know, we had girl power for so long because women were marginalized and the second-class citizens for so long, but we went so far the other way that we like all the little girls, you know, they think they can do anything, and it's like now the boys that are that having the opposite effect.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

So yeah, and I think that's uh I I like that you name that because you know sometimes we get into the so-called gender wars, and the important thing is that we all thrive when women are thriving more, just like we all thrive when men are thriving more. To me, it's not either or. And one of the challenges, you know, particularly in the dating and relationship realm, I do a lot of work with men around now, is we are kind of behind. Just what I mean by that is you're right. Feminism, the women's liberation movement kind of started to percolate in the 50s, hit in the 60s, and on from there. And women were thankfully liberated from, well, because you were born in a female body, you have to be a homemaker, you have to do these things, et cetera, et cetera. You know, it wasn't even that long ago. Women couldn't vote, they couldn't have a bank account. Like, this is an ancient history. This is, you know, decades ago. And that started to change, where women were allowed to develop their own sense of agency and come out and be in the world and have wants and desires and independence. But men, you know, the men's work movement maybe started. There was a little bit in the 60s, you know, you could grow out your hair, you could become an artist. There's a little bit, but it wasn't really until the 90s that Robert Bly and some of those guys started the Mankind Project. And there was like a first wave of, I think men need to do some developing here too. And that had an impact, but now we're really starting to see it come forward that us men, particularly in relationships, we're asked, we're being asked to be more, to be more as fathers, be more as husbands. Where it used to be enough where I do work with a lot of men in that kind of 40s and 50s age, where they kind of followed the script they were supposed to be to do, go out, get a job, start a family, work really hard to provide for them financially. But then they weren't given the other skills they now need. So they weren't really present with their kids. They had no idea how to cultivate intimacy and real connection with their wife. Kids grow up, they're 18. It's like, hey, we haven't had a relationship in 20 years. I'm not in love with you anymore, and then leaves. And then the man is like, I thought I was supposed to do, you know, I thought I was providing in the way I was supposed to, but it's just not enough anymore. It just like women were expected to develop a sense of self in some sense and their ability to go out and do things. Men are being asked to develop their interiors, right, to know how to share a feeling, to know how to take control and not be overrun by their anger. Some simple, I mean, a lot of it comes down to communication, right? And that we need some training on that. I mean, there's anything fundamentally wrong or broken with us. We are asked to, just like women now have to be more, men have to be more. And we need some skills for that so we can stay present as father, stay present as husbands and spouse, and also not neglect ourselves way through as well.

Tamara 21:46

Yeah, I was saying one big suggestion I've hear from lots of women is just taking charge, you know, taking the lead. And I know if you've been nagged and like criticized, and like you're more inclined not to want to do that, but that is what women want. They don't want to have to do everything. But if you won't do it, we step up.

Dating Apps, Filters, And Status

SPEAKER_01 22:03

So Yeah, we resent and you can do it really well. Yeah, right. A lot of that's one of the stresses. Like a lot of my guys are like, my wife makes more money than me, she's more organized than me. Like, what do I do? And that's part of what I have to teach men is. Well, that's all fine. And there's still things you can bring. Just because she can do all this stuff doesn't mean it's not very desired sometimes for her to come home and for you to say, Hey, I got us this afternoon or this evening. Here's the plan. I drew a bath for you. You can go relax. I've got dinner on. The sitter's coming out. We're going to go out in X, Y, or Z. Again, just because he's the man doesn't mean he always has to take the lead. But this is another area a lot of men are struggling with is the pendulum swung so far to the other side of, I don't want to be that macho, dick, abrasive, my way or the highway kind of what call the 1950s man. But those men were raised by those men and were like, whoa, no, thank you. And so swing far too much to the kind of passive, what we call nice guy side of, I'm just going to make sure you always have what you need. I don't want to take any risks. I don't want to be a dominating. And then they don't lead. And that causes a lot of dysfunction in terms of the dynamics of particularly heterosexual relationships, really any of them, and building that skill set back up. What does it actually mean to lead? Not from a place of domination, but as a place of connection and gift of, hey, there's all these things we could be doing tonight or could have our attention on. And I made a plan. What do you think? Right. Even if I made a plan, it doesn't mean we have to do this. But it's nice when I show up as a plan. That's something I've heard show up with a plan from so many spouses and wives of like, hey, here's what I mapped out and I thought. What do you feel about that? And then they get to be like, yeah, that sounds great. Or actually, could we do this? And then we make a little tweak and then we go with it. And that tends to create a lot more energy long term for relationships.

Tamara 24:08

Yeah. Yeah. I know many women, like I said earlier, and you're just saying now that yeah, they do everything because they have to, but they would and then they the women also need to then encourage and appreciate the steps they're taking rather than like critique it. You know, but like you said, have a little dialogue about it and at least get on the right path, and then eventually. But I know yeah, I know somebody that just do everything because they're like, it won't be done right if I don't do it. And they just absolutely do not want to do it and they hate it and resent it.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah. And then that causes a lot of stress in a relation. So this is an area where men can have a huge impact is building up some of these leadership skills, particularly building up some communication and interpersonal skills, and up some of these emotional spaces, and make room to talk about these deep things. And certainly a journey I had to go on in my marriage as well was really learning to take stock of the labor that goes into running a household physically and emotionally. And I think I'm doing a lot. And then we go through the checklist. It's like, whoa, no, actually, I'm not doing a lot. There's a lot more I can do here. And sometimes I'm joke, not joking, the most loving thing I can do for my partner to get ahead and do the dishes.

Tamara 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

She walks into the kitchen and it's already done. And her body just uh Yeah. And especially when then we can actually have a connection. Yeah. Because she's not worried having to track when's that gonna get done.

Tamara 25:36

Yeah, if she walks in and just sees a mess, like it just messes with your head in general. Like especially if you're if your love language is you know acts of service, then that would be like pivotal and very important. Yeah. Words, you know, say the words. So what is shadow work? Is that something similar to what we've been talking about?

Connection Through Doing Hard Things

Culture Shift And Skills Men Need

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah, a little bit in that you know, shadow work is human work in one sense, but I particularly do it um with men. And really it's the process of bringing to the light what we're unaware of. Really bringing light to the shadowy parts of our what that really points to is oftentimes, you know, any of us human beings, as we're growing up, we make certain adaptations to survive, particularly in our family system with parents or caregivers later on in relationships. And oftentimes some of these adaptations happen so early, we're not actually conscious of them as we age. So there's this whole kind of rule book we have around what we need to stay safe and get our needs met, we're not conscious of. Data work is really the process of eliminating that. What is driving my behavior when I'm not even really conscious of? Why is it I know I don't want to do this thing? Maybe it's I freeze and withdraw from my wife. Maybe it's I get explosively angry at my kid when they X, Y, or Z. And so part of me knows, like, uh, I do not like how this feels. Yet I keep doing it. That almost always points to some kind of shadow material underneath. There's a whole kind of equation we have in our head that something has to happen a certain way, otherwise, something else worse will happen. And so shadow work is often the process of illuminating that. And quite frankly, usually going back to the roots to fully process whatever happened. And so, in a way, it's a type of trauma work where we go back to often the formative moments in our life. We were ill-equipped, unequipped, overwhelmed to fully process the moment. Where something happened to us and it was not safe for us to set a boundary or speak back. And the cumulative effect of that on our nervous system, there's more and more research, is the, as they say, right, the issues are in the tissues. Our body restores all of that. Again, kind of going back to some of the man box examples. If you think of a young boy who's hurt himself or feeling really sad about something and fully crying, and this still happens today, and it's not even just to boys, but girls too. And a parent comes up to them and is like, stop crying. You can feel into it immediately, how would a boy do that in the movement? He stops breathing, his body tightens up. We hook with tension, we hold the emotion, we like freeze it in our system. And that is happening all the time in these formative moments where something was too much for us. And, you know, one of my favorite quotes you've maybe heard that kind of goes around the internet these days is Gabramate in particular is a wonderful teacher, talks about trauma actually happens kind of in two parts. There's the thing that happens to us, and then there's what happens after. Who do we talk to and process it with to come back to co-regulation? And for many boys in particular, there's no one. They go cry alone in their room or run away or whatever that might be. And so all this material accumulates in our body over time, and we get really stressed and we hold a lot of tension in our system. And shadow work is often the process of emotionally excavating a lot of what has been stuck in our system, right? Guys come to me in their 60s and 70s, and we hit a pocket of shame or grief that they've honestly been carrying since they were young boys. And there's a huge cathartic release that he gets to let go of attention and bring that emotional content really kind of to completion. And then lo and behold, why it's worth it for any men in particular that are skeptical out there is once we're no longer holding that, all the energy that that was taking in our nervous system becomes freed back up. We actually have more energy and resource to be present with our kids, with our spouse, in our work, and to focus on the things we really want to focus on in life.

Tamara 30:45

Yeah. Do you do you excuse me? Do you do like movement with them or talk or like what kind of it's a lot of movement?

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah. Um, so getting them in their bodies and um, you know, with something like anger, it might be actually providing them some resistance to push into, using their voice with uh fear or grief. Oftentimes, it's offering actual contact between men. You know, a lot of guys come to me and I wish I could cry. Yeah, I wish I could cry. Get them in a group where there's seven or eight men with loving presence around them, hands get put on their shoulder, often their body finally gets the signal for the first time in their life. It's actually safe to let go and feel. And they burst, you know, burst into sometimes very deep wails and releases. So, yeah, absolutely somatic component is very key. If there's one thing us guys are good at, just talking about things for our head, from our head, and reporting on our experience versus being in it. So it's very important to get into that bodily emotional level.

Tamara 31:58

Yeah, it sounds very, very helpful. It's awesome that you get to work with people and have them do that. So uh on that note, do you want to share how people can work with you or just any of your socials, whatever you want to share?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, if you you like kind of what I'm talking about here, you can go to evolutionary.men. So it's not.com, but dot men. And on there you can see a lot of my programs, retreats, the men's circles I lead, uh, have a podcast. And even if you don't know where to get started as a man, just drop me an email. I'm you don't have to work with me. I'm very passionate about it. Helping men find the resources around them, even if you want a local men's group or community, and they sometimes just don't know where to start. I can help you figure out where to start to locate something. Or obviously you're you're welcome to work with me, but you don't have to. The most important thing right now, I think, in a lot of ways in our culture, is getting men more connected to themselves, to each other, and to the planet at large.

Tamara 32:59

Yeah. Definitely agree. And thank you very much. Um, do you have any like final comments or closing thoughts that you want to share?

Leading Without Domination

SPEAKER_01 33:06

And then Yeah, I would just say, you know, um, a lot of times many men these days, because the men box are skeptical about vulnerability and emotions and being weak and all that. And sometimes I'll just leave them with this simple thing, right? Um we we briefly talked about the vagal nerve, which is this big bundle of nerves that goes from the base of your brain down into your body. It's basically what connects your brain to your body. And what's really interesting is they've done the research on it. And it turns out if we think of that as a superhighway for all the information in our body, only, only 20% of that highway goes from brain to body. 80% of it, direction of that track from body to brain. So even just as a man, if the only thing you care about is productivity and effectiveness, if you are not in your body, you are missing 80% of the information being given to you in any given moment, relationally, physically, whatever it is, to make better decisions and be a better leader. Because the more information you have, the more informed a decision you can make. So this isn't just like woo-woo healing stuff. It's if you want to become a more effective man and leader in your family, in your relationship, in your work, getting in your body, which other men can teach you how to do, is one of the most productive and effective things you can invest your time in.

Tamara 34:38

Yeah. Once again, awesome information. Thank you very much. Yeah, that was very needed. Thank you. And um, if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well. And uh thank you again, Jason.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Tamara 34:54

All right, bye. Thanks, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Frank Talk! Frank Talk!