NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
Billy Dinh
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Billy Dinh
Episode 20: Show Notes.
Today NorCal sits down with Brooklyn-based photographer and talented artist Billy Dinh! Billy's past clients include Microsoft Xbox, and he's been published in Street Dreams Magazine, Fstoppers, ExpertPhotography, and CNN News. Hear about a burglary and a trip to Iceland that pivoted him into dedicating his whole artistic self to photography, his hesitant jump into the NFT space, and the book he recommends that every creative should read! Billy also shares some insightful advice about two things you need to maintain your sanity as an artist: patience and a sense of balance, plus the best advice he's ever received that gives a mind-blowing new perspective on when to worry. We also hear why he's a fuzzy bear, what about Japan beckons him to live there one day, and some brilliant questions that might just draw NorCal back into the space as an artist himself. Thanks for joining and let's jump into another great conversation!
Key Points From This Episode:
· Billy's opinion on hardware wallets, and how he got involved in NFTs.
· Reflections on the times he's been reserved with collecting and regretted it.
· NorCal and Billy chat about the growth of the photography space.
· Billy's early love of art and accidentally getting into photography.
· A story of a burglary in college that ended up being a blessing in disguise.
· Other jobs that Billy's done, including sporting goods and business analysis.
· Why he recommends Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert.
· Hear Billy's many favorite foods and the reason he would be a bear if he was an animal.
· The best advice he's received about knowing when to worry.
· Two pieces of advice he wants to give new artists about patience and maintaining balance.
· The drawcards of Japanese food and photography; why Billy could move to Tokyo.
· NorCal answers the question if we'll ever get a minted collection from him!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
EPISODE 20
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:31] NG: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the next episode of NorCal and Shill. Today’s guest is Billy Dinh. We can find on Twitter @billydeee_. His website is billydinh.com. His Instagram is @billydeee and his Linktree is billydeee. His clients include Microsoft Xbox, and he's been published in Street Dreams Magazine, Fstoppers, ExpertPhotography and CNN News. Everyone, please welcome, Billy.
Hey, Billy, welcome to the podcast. How you doing today?
[00:01:33] BD: Hey, man. Thanks for having me. I'm doing very well. Just trying to go through another day of the cold brisk weather of New York.
[00:01:43] NG: That yeah. That's a little too cold for me over there.
[00:01:46] BD: Yeah. I think we're not even at the coldest month yet. I think January, February is going to be usually the cold months over here. I don't know what it is. This December has been just outrageously potent. I think we're going to have to buckle up for an interesting winter this year.
[00:02:01] NG: That's super cold winter.
[00:02:03] BD: Yeah. Super cold winter.
[00:02:04] NG: Oh, man. So what are you doing for lunch that's going to keep you warm?
[00:02:08] BD: Honestly, dude. I just have my cup of tea. That's it. I don't drink coffee. Tea is the only thing that keeps me warm. Otherwise, I'll just cook up a hot meal, nothing fancy. Yeah, I'm more of – I'll go out to dinner and have a nice dinner and then just eat like, I'll cook whatever for lunch or breakfast.
[00:02:27] NG: Perfect. Yeah. I feel you on that one. Do you have a hardware wallet?
[00:02:32] BD: Yes. I do have a hardware wallet. I do have the ledger. I think that Nano X. Not the cheapest one. I remember when my friends were like, my friends in this space, were like, “Get a wallet.” I'm like, “Well, which one?” They're like, “Get the ledger.” I’m like, “Okay, cool. Which one?” They're like, “Whatever is not the cheapest one.” I think, I got it. I'm not sure that’s the Nano. Is that the Nano X one? The one that's has a good screen on it?
[00:02:55] NG: I think yeah. There's a Nano and then there's the Ledger X, I think.
[00:03:00] BD: The Ledger X maybe, that's maybe that's what I have. Yeah. It's also interesting that this is your first question.
[00:03:04] NG: Well, yeah. I mean, it just, it is, I think a lot of people avoid it, because I mean, it's priced in dollars. It looks like, I don’t want to spend that kind of money. But you're going to throw down like point [inaudible: 0:03:20] and you're like, “Yeah, I gotta buy some wallets.”
[00:03:23] BD: I know, you do. You know what it is, though? I've heard and seen too many horror stories from people I know. I don't want to go through it. I think you guys can imagine. It's just, it's sad. All your hard work could be gone in an instant. I don't want to mess around. But I like this as the first question, because it makes you either feel bad or feel good the rest of the interview.
[00:03:49] NG: That’s exactly what I'm going for.
[00:03:51] BD: Yeah. Do you get a lot of people to say no, that they don't have a hard wallet?
[00:03:55] NG: I had a couple.
[00:03:57] BD: Yeah. No, it's nothing to feel bad about. I think everybody should have one, personally.
[00:04:01] NG: It's a process.
[00:04:02] BD: Yes, it is. It is.
[00:04:03] NG: I mean, I definitely feel platforms should be like, “Hey, before you start an account here or mint something here. Get a wallet and mint from your wallet.”
[00:04:12] BD: Oh, I agree. I think SuperRare and OpenSea and Foundation, when you submit and sell your first piece, Foundation gives you invites and stuff. I think they should also send you a wallet and it's like “Look, you're official. Welcome to the space. Here's your, what is it, your starter kit. Yeah, there's your three invites. Here's a hard wallet. Here a baseball cap with our logo.” That'd be cool. That's a good idea for anybody who wants to who's listening, who wants to start a new platform.
[00:04:40] NG: Yeah. I mean, this promo, let’s do it. What were your first thoughts when you heard about NFTs?
[00:04:48] BD: That's interesting. I'm trying to remember my first exact thoughts. I remember hearing about NFTs, so I came from – like most artists, I came from the Instagram world, where I just basically lived, at one point, I just posted everything there and had everything there and promoted my work there. That's where business came in from and all that, where I met friends. People like to talk about it at Instagram, but that's where it was for a little while. That's where I saw NFTs.
I didn't see one specifically, but I did remember going through one of my artist friend’s stories, and I noticed they were like – this is back in March, by the way, and they were like, “Oh, my gosh. NFTs is the future. If you're not looking into it, you're going to hear about it anyway.” Things like that. I'm just like, yeah, and I'm just like, “Whoa. I got to check this out.” Because I actually, I work in tech. I'm always trying to be on top of what's latest, especially when it comes to tech and crypto and all that. That was my first time I heard about it was on an Instagram story.
[00:05:55] NG: Were you a believer? Did you like, “Let me research this scam?”
[00:06:00] BD: I did. Yeah, I did. I went to Google. I typed in NFTs, and I read a bunch of articles. A couple days have passed, and I was like, “I still don't get it.” I was like, “What is going on?” Then I kept reading, and I kept reading. One of the things that I think really got me, it wasn't minting my work and selling it. It was authenticating my work. I think, that was the big draw at that point.
I was like, cool. I do a bunch of work. I've always had – not that anything's happened to me like that, but I've always had a fear of people just taking your work, and not just selling it, but claiming it as their own. You hear all these horror stories of even big corporations doing it, like Urban Outfitters. Taking people's work and putting it on a t-shirt and selling it without permission, or royalty, or anything. That sucks.
That was my big ticket in. I was like, you know what? I've never sold my work. I don't do my work with the intention of selling it, at least not before. I wasn't really in a big rush to sell it. I was just thinking like, who would buy it anyway? I was like, but how about I use this technology on the blockchain to authenticate it? That was when I started to look into the technology. I was researching platforms. It wasn't maybe until I found out about Nifty Gateway. I found out that people were making money off NFTs, that I started to get involved.
Believe it or not, my first interactions with NFT's was not even as an artist, more so as a collector, almost. Because I had already invested in Ethereum and a bunch of other small coins. I didn't have much. I was putting stuff aside. I was like, “You know what? Let me put some stuff in art.” People are making a bunch of money off of Mad Dog Jones. I love his work. Ferocious. I saw his work back then, too, early. All the other people that were already established on nifty, in the March timeframe. I was like, let me just try to get in addition for as low as I can. That's how I got in.
[00:08:06] NG: Nice. Started as a collector.
[00:08:08] BD: I know, right? For the record, I never ended up getting a Mad Dog Jones, or Ferocious. I wish I did. I tried to. Even back then, they were hard, but yeah. You know, the funny thing, at that same time as I was collecting, I started to go, “All right, look. I am an artist. I have work. Let me just throw something out there.” When I was researching, I came across Justin. How do you pronounce his last name? I'm so terrible at names. Aversano?
[00:08:31] NG: Yes. I think, that's right.
[00:08:32] BD: Aversano. Yeah. Justin's collection of Twin Flames on OpenSea. I remember, I was super proud to come across it, because it was photography. Everything on Nifty was beautiful and 3D and virtual and moving. It was just a different type of art. I was like, “Man, these photographs. I don't know if they're going to ever do well.”
I came across Justin's and I was like, “Man, this is a photography series that's really well curated and there's a great story behind it. They’re well shot. It looks very museum/gallery quality.” I just watched it sell out. I literally watched it sell out. It was, I think, 0.55. I was like, “Yeah, that was a lot for me,” especially at that time. I was like, “Nah, I'm not going to buy this.” Look at it now.
[00:09:20] NG: Right. Yeah. I mean it's funny, because when I first started pouring as well, I was reserved. That's a lot. I remember buying some of my stuff, well, I saw – I remember when Ringers came out, or not. I wasn't there for when Ringers came out, but afterwards on secondary and the prices started, they go up, and I was like, “I really want one of these, but they're starting to go up in price. Is it going to be worth it? I don't know.” I finally bought one at one and a half eth and I was just like, “Is this a bad move?”
[00:10:00] BD: Wait. Is it bad now? Is it okay?
[00:10:02] NG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. It’s good.
[00:10:03] BD: I’ll take it. Because that's the thing. You don't know. You don't know. There's been many times where I've done the same thing. I saw the toads go by at 0.7. I was like, there's no way this is going to – nothing's going to ever happen with this. Now it’s at 15 ETH. I’m just like, “Fuck.” There's a bunch of things. Then there's a bunch of things, I think, we were just talking earlier about the meccas and all those things where I'm like, you know what? I could go on right now, and probably make a big, or just have the biggest regret in my life. But you never know.
[00:10:34] NG: Yeah, it's hard. I mean, I guess, I could see why some people wait to see if there's momentum behind it before jumping in. Buy on secondary.
[00:10:42] BD: I played Justin's piece, though, for just being just so inexperienced, and not yet a believer of this whole thing. That was my big thing. That was why I don't think I jumped in on that one.
[00:10:55] NG: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I mean, there wasn't hardly any. There wasn't much photography back then, if any. I’m trying to think.
[00:11:01] BD: No. No, no, no. I do know that there were – I mean, I found out later that there are other photographers that have minted stuff, that just didn't – I guess, wasn't as big in the light as Justin's collection. I think, it was the probably the first photography collection. I think, that was why it did as well. I don't think that's the only reason, obviously. There's like, that was the reason why I think I've even heard of it, because it was a collection, and the pieces all were cohesive, and they belong in a big set. I think, there were other photographers out there that maybe have done solo stuff. I'm sure, there were definitely other photography work floating around at that point.
[00:11:35] NG: Yeah. I know there's other photography work, because like Nathan Head, I think it is. I bought some of his stuff early on. Justin's was the first collection, I think. He really got involved in the community. Before he did that, save art space, I think, and got the punks on the billboards and bus stations at bus stops and whatnot. I think, that helped. Getting involved in the community definitely helped.
[00:12:04] BD: Oh, totally. Oh, yeah. I love what he's involved in with the quantum curation service, or platform, whatever you want to refer to it. There's a few other things he's doing, too, that I think, personally, is going to be big for the photography space. It's just really going to help introduce new artists that wouldn't have either heard of, or in a part of the space, or just even bring more success, or bring the success that's deserved to some artists that are already in the space. I think, what they're doing is great over there.
[00:12:34] NG: Switching gears a little bit back to yourself, how, or what brought you into art photography? In general, how did you get started?
[00:12:42] BD: Sure. I think, my path is a little bit interesting. I've always been interested in creating things, I think, ever since I was very young. I remember clearly, a moment in my life when I was like, I don't know the age exactly, but I could have been four, or five, or six, where I literally was sitting down with my mother in our old apartment in Philadelphia, and I was sketching out, I don't know, doodles or something random, whatever kids draw.
I remember being so proud of this piece of work. The only thing I can remember my mother saying was like, “This is great, but you can't focus on this. You have to focus on school and become a doctor or something, or an engineer.” I don't know, but for whatever reason, that – I've always been artistic.
I've always continued to draw, even past those early ages, even into high school and college. I can still continue to illustrate and paint and did a bunch of things. Not so much photography, though, but I was always involved in the arts. I remember even getting my art teachers to go like, “We really recommend you try to apply for an art program, because we think you're great.” I never had the confidence. Because I think, my whole life I grew up not thinking I was good enough and coming from parents that are super immigrants, Asian-American parents who just want you to succeed, and they think success comes from having a job, like a lawyer, or doctor, things like that discouraged me.
I continue to do it, but I never really took it seriously. Then, I think I started to find that you could make money off art when I was in college. I was doing illustrations, comic book illustrations. I remember posting it on a forum and it started – It started selling. People started to commission me to do small stuff. Yeah, but I continued to go get a degree. It's something completely different. I’ve been working a 9 to 5 in a completely different job.
I kept art near and dear to my heart. Even after these 9 to 5 jobs, in any time that I had left, I would pour it all into art. I would juggle social life and work, and my relationships. Art have a big place there. Long story short, I'm telling you all this, because I accidentally got into photography, because of my illustration stuff. I had already been traveling for quite a bit of time. I took photos on my phone like anybody else would, but I never thought anything of it right. It was just taking in the moments and remembering this beautiful scenery was why I took photos on my phone.
Then one year, I think about four years ago, I had somebody break into my apartment here in Brooklyn. They took all of my stuff, all my important stuff, and they took the camera I had, which was a Rebel Ti. Just a basic camera, something that I barely ever touched. I remember, I did use it. Whenever I did use it, I used it to take pictures of still figures, like references. I could take and use as reference to paint or draw. I think when that was stolen, my laptop was stolen, I was in the market to get new stuff. At that same time, I think I luckily had a co-worker who was super into photography, and he helped – he convinced me to pick up a fancier camera.
Instead of the Rebel, which was an ASPC crop camera for beginners, he was like, “You know what? You can get a used 6D, a Canon 6D, which is an entry-level full-frame.” I was like, “I don't even know what you're talking about. If it's the same price and it's a better camera, sure.” I picked it up. I took it with me to Iceland, because I was like, you know what? I have this nice camera, and I'm going to this beautiful place. I know my iPhone is not going to take the best photos. Let me take this camera here, and I swear to you, ever since that Iceland trip, I stopped all my other artistic endeavors. I stopped painting. I stopped illustrating and it's been –
[00:16:42] NG: Oh, wow.
[00:16:42] BD: Yeah, I know. It's been photos every single day. That’s what it was, was I took photos, and I got posted it. Right away, people are like, “Well, these are great.” Then, I started off with landscape stuff. Then I moved over. I naturally grew a love for street photography, which is people, and these things around the street. Living in New York, that came easy. Yeah, sorry for that long-winded answer, but I wanted to give you the background as to how it all came together and how I got where I got to.
[00:17:13] NG: Wow, I'm still surprised you dropped illustration.
[00:17:17] BD: Yeah. I have so many people, because I even freelance for Marvel. I did some stuff for them. I had other small independent comic book companies reached out, like Image. I don't know if you guys are big in the comic book world. I was building a name there, too. It's just, there were sides about that, that I didn't like and wasn't fulfilling that I do get with photography. Also, my whole life prior to that, I stretched myself out thin, doing so many different things.
For once, I really wanted to focus and put my all into something. Literally, that's what I've been doing over the last four years since I've started photography. I had to make that sacrifice. For me, my belief is I don't think anything is permanent. I think, if one day I realized that I want to put down the camera and pick my brushes, or my pen and pencils back up, then I think I can do so. For now, this is my life.
[00:18:12] NG: I'm curious, what jobs have you done along the way?
[00:18:15] BD: You want non-art jobs, or just everything?
[00:18:19] NG: Well, let's hear some. I’m assuming. I might be assuming wrong. Before you started doing the sketching and illustrating, I feel like, there was some jobs in there that probably weren't art related.
[00:18:30] BD: Yeah, there were. Part-time, as soon as I could even work, I had a job in Model’s sporting goods. I think, they're out of business now, but they're a sporting goods company. I worked in the footwear to shoe department. I sold sneakers for a little bit for a couple years, through high school, just to get by and know the value of working. I did that. Then, believe it or not, I worked at Best Buy for a good two to three years, too, part-time when I was in college. Yeah, I was geek squad, or computer sales. I did a bunch of that.
Then I went to school, got a degree in computer science and I became a product manager, actually. I started off as a business analyst and became a product manager. That's what I do now still, full-time. I know it’s surprising, because a lot of people are like, “I thought you were in photography full-time.” Honestly, I feel like I am, because I put so much into it. I haven't gotten to the point where I'm brave enough, or I'm financially secure enough to quit my job, like most people are. I don't want to jinx anything, but it's looking a lot better as days go on, is all I'll say.
[00:19:36] NG: When you're ready, the time will be there. I encourage people to keep their job at least, through one down cycle. Just because I don't know what this next potential down cycle is going to be like. Until the next cycle of bull run, it'll be – it may not pull back that much. It may not. If it doesn't, then awesome you. You can quit your job at that point, if you feel like you can. Otherwise, just grind through. I mean, a couple more years is not that bad in the grand scheme of things.
[00:20:08] BD: Totally agree. Also, there's this – I think, I was on this side for a little while. There's also this book that really helped me and I highly recommend it for anybody who's a creative and caught in that battle of working, and also doing art. Because, I think, for the longest time, I was a little ashamed that I was an artist, doing art, producing art, but not really putting my all, even though I am. I’m not dedicating my entire life and quitting my job. I felt like a fraud, but I've come to accept that everybody's got their own story and their own journey, and they do it at their own pace. Just because you're putting in eight hours somewhere else, it doesn’t mean – a day, doesn't mean that you still can't be an artist, right? You still can put out work and still do great things and produce great art.
This book, I read [inaudible 00:20:56] a couple years ago, but it really helped me with that journey. I highly recommend it. It's called Big Magic. It’s by Elizabeth Gilbert. She is the famous author who wrote Eat, Pray Love or Eat, Love, Prayer. I forget what the real title of the book is. She wrote a book about her life and how she – even though she wrote that book, which became a movie, she still had a full-time job. She was number one on the New Yor’k bestseller for that book, and won many awards. She still kept her job for years after her journey is really great. and I would highly recommend it for anybody either in my position or just considering picking up a job as an artist, too.
[00:21:33] NG: Yeah, what was her name again?
[00:21:34] BD: Elizabeth, Gilbert.
[00:21:36] NG: Gilbert. Yeah. It's called Big Magic.
[00:21:40] NG: All right, next question. If you were an animal, what would you be and why?
[00:21:44] BD: Oh, man. I don't know, man. I get asked this sometimes, and I honestly don't even know why. How did this come up? I would like to think I'm a tiger or something, but I'm definitely not. I mean, you know how everybody wants to be this cool animal. In Harry Potter, if you want to be a patronus, you want to this mighty, awesome thing. I would say, maybe a bear, because I like to sleep. Maybe I can have my sides. I could be nice and gentle when I need to be, but I could also be pretty scary if I need to be Yes, that's what I think.
[00:22:20] NG: All right. It means some hibernating.
[00:22:26] BD: I know, man. Especially here in the wintertime, I just want to sleep all day.
[00:22:29] NG: know. If it’s cold out, a nice, cozy blanket.
[00:22:33] BD: Yeah. It’s like, shooting in the rain. It's been so difficult recently, because – I’m like, “All right, I've got a bunch of rainy shots now. I'm going to sleep in and enjoy the mood and the sound it makes when it hits the window.” That's so peaceful.
[00:22:46] NG: Do you have a favorite food?
[00:22:48] BD: I have many. I'm a big fan of food as well. I think, if I had to choose one, I mean, you can't go wrong with Mexican food, or any type of Latin food. I love all of that. I love Asian food, too. If I had to pick one, I’d probably say, the burrito. It's got everything in it. You can have your rice, you can have your protein, you can have some veggies, you got your carbs. It's just, you can do it up any different way. Put anything in it. It fits in your hand. This is great. It's a great food, man. It’s great.
[00:23:22] NG: It's like an all right, it's not too messy. If you're on a road trip, you can eat a burrito easily.
[00:23:28] BD: Oh, yeah. It's always filling. I don't think I've ever gone to a place who like, I'm not full after a burrito.
[00:23:35] NG: Do you have a particular type of meat?
[00:23:37] BD: It depends. My healthier months, I'll just stick to chicken, but I love alpha star. Yeah, the pork. The marinated pork with a pineapple. I don't really like the carne a lot on a burrito. I do beef. I just don't like the carne on the burrito. I usually stick to chicken and the pork.
[00:23:57] NG: I mean, I guess when I'm ordering a burrito, I usually go some chicken.
[00:24:02] BD: Usually chicken?
[00:24:03] NG: Yeah. Then tacos is where – I’d switch over to carne asada.
[00:24:08] BD: Yeah, same. With the taco you get carne? I know, it's not traditional, but fish tacos are so good.
[00:24:13] NG: Oh, yeah. Fish tacos are good.
[00:24:15] BD: Yeah. I know you’re in Cali, so you get the real good tacos, man.
[00:24:19] NG: Yeah. You can definitely find some really good spots. In every town, there's a good spot.
[00:24:24] BD: Yeah. I remember being in San Diego my first time. I went to a truck. First off, it was extremely cheap. I think, it was 3 bucks a tacos, or 250, or something. Because there's so much competition there. It was just like, the size of my 13-inch MacBook Pro. It wasn't that big, but it looked like huge. It was huge for taco and it was delicious. It's a must. Anytime I go back to the West Coast, I always hit up those. I always Google, or Yelp all of the taco spots, or burrito spots.
[00:24:54] NG: Right. For sure. What is the best piece of advice you've been given?
[00:24:59] BD: Ah, geez. I've been given quite a bit. I think, the one that I think will always stick out to me, which funnily enough, isn't from a teacher, any guru, or sensei, or master mentor. It's actually from a girl I met in a hostel. She gave me some really good advice. I was in South Africa. I was in Johannesburg. I was just in a hostel. For those who don't know, me, I love when I travel. I love staying in these hostels, because you get to just meet so many amazing people, and you get to – It's a little more affordable, so I get to do more trips. It's more so about the community and the relationships that you build. I love staying in these hostels.
I met this girl from Australia. We're in Johannesburg. I don't know, it's over drinks, or something. She gives me this advice. My mind is blown. She says something around the lines of how she doesn't like to worry about something that hasn't happened yet, because then you'd worry twice. I think what I was doing was I was just complaining about something, or worrying about something, or asking her if why she's not worried. She was like, “Well, why worry when you're going to have to worry about it anyway when it happens.” Because it hasn't happened yet, it's just a waste of your stress, or your emotions.
Which I love this advice, because I get what she's trying to say. She's not trying to say, don't worry at all. There's a little bit of worrying, or feeling that you need to act on something that prepares you, and gets you to do something to motivate people at sometimes. There's a level of worrying that you're just – some people are like, sometimes myself, especially where I'm already stressed, as if that had already happened. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it hasn't happened. When it does happen, you're going to worry all over again, or it's just going to be more prolonged.
I think, I've taken that advice, and I've applied it to some of my day-to-day things, and it can be applied to anything. It's helped me through with certain things. I think, the key is having to know when to worry, when not to worry. I think, that's my advice, right? Having to know when something's worth worrying for prematurely, or early, versus when things – you need to relax a little bit, and just let it go and then worry when it's occurring.
[00:27:13] NG: I mean, it makes sense. I mean, there's no need to stress about something that may not happen. Also, “Oh, crap. If I don’t da, da, da, da, da.” Well, when you get to that point, it might not even be like that. A completely different situation.
[00:27:27] BD: Exactly. Yeah. I think, it could be situation, although, because some things, for example, doing your homework. It's like, you want to worry, because you might procrastinate and not do it. There's certain things where you might want to worry a little early, but there's certain things that are just out of your control. Why are you worrying? You might not have any say, or any type of input, or no matter whether, you worry, or doing anything about it, it's not going to go that way anyway. Why not just worry when it comes? I think, if you can differentiate between that and know when to not worry early, and when not to, I think, you'd live a little – a life that's a little less stressed, or more stress free.
[00:28:09] NG: Do you have any specific advice for artists joining the NFT space?
[00:28:14] BD: Yeah. Actually, I do. It's funny, because out in Miami, I was at the SuperRare booth, and I had a few of the staff, like Casey. I don't know why, but they were – I was there just hanging out, talking to them and seeing them and they had a photography come over, who were new to the NFT world, and they just were like, threw me on the spot and was like, “Do you have any advice for this person?” I was with my friend, Natalie. We both had to think on the fly, because we weren't ready to answer these questions.
I remember saying something that I was super – I would definitely want to share this with everybody else. That is, don't make this your everything. Because I see so many people that come in and they put so much, and they rely so much on this, that it gets emotionally and mentally straining. I don't make it my everything. I still go through days where I'm super stressed. Feeling it, feeling the FOMO and all that other stuff. I try not to. I'm always big on not giving into that. You just can't help it sometimes. I think, it's in our array. I'm sure well as a collector, and as somebody who's also in the space, you feel it too, don't you?
[00:29:21] NG: Yeah. I mean, on some projects, you're like, “Oh, man. I wish I got into that one.”
[00:29:27] BD: I know.
[00:29:28] NG: It's usually around that. Sometimes depending on the project. It was the PFP projects. It's around the top, you're like, “I'm not going to buy in, or I should buy in, and then it comes down in price.” You're like, “Why did I do that?”
[00:29:41] BD: I know. It's harder, because it's money. It's money. It's lives. It's like, people hold legacies in their brands and all of it. It's there. It's on the line almost. I think, it's easy to get sucked into thinking that, “If I don't do this, I'm never going to succeed.” It's easy to feel that way, but it's not that way. I don't think so. I think, the NFT world is just – and this is what I've told that person, the NFT world is just another channel for you to leverage, to help boost yourself up with whatever it is that you're after.
I'm speaking more on an artist side. If you're there for the money, it's just another way for you to make it. You shouldn't give up everything that you're doing. If you can afford to quit your job and all that, sure. That's great. Initially, don't make it your own, until you know for sure that this is going to last, and this is what you think you want your path to be, and you want your art to completely be a part of. I will say, that's number one.
Number two is really, to have patience. I think, I feel like, almost every other day I'm posting about having patience. I know other people are, too, but I really beat it. I think, I’ve told you that back in March when I joined, like do you want to know big photography collection, or work besides Justin's and a few others, right, like you said Nathan's. I've had my work set there for months, which without a single interest and it’s out.
Eventually, it found its collector. I'm also seeing this from other people, who have put work around that same time, or put work even shorter. They have to sit for a couple weeks, couple months, and it sells. I know the people that it's easy for us to say, because it's sold. I know that people who have worked now, they're like, “Yeah, I'm sure it's great for you to say, because you're sold.” I truly believe that if you do good work, you present yourself well, you're a part of this community, and it shows, it'll come. If it doesn't, now, it doesn't mean that you suck, or that you're doing anything wrong. It just means, you just haven't found the person to connect with it.
I noticed you, too, as a collector, there are things and styles and stuff that you collect. You're not going to go out and buy every little thing, as much as you probably want to. That's the beauty about the space, is people have options. I think, just be patient. I think, maybe my last piece of advice is for people entering the space is – and this works, I think, everybody, not just artists, collectors and anybody was like, be ready to use – the skills that you're not probably used to using. I’ll use being an artist as an example.
I was not used to having to promote my work so much and really figure out my brand so quick, and know how to sell, or know how to market. In this space, in this world, that's one of the benefits of web 3. That's how, and that's why I think the middle person is being cut out. You have the choice to do that. You can be your own curator. You can directly work with the collector. You can negotiate. You can promote. You can sell. I know that to some people, that's not good. To some people, it is. You have the choice to do it now.
Versus before in the traditional space, you didn't really have that choice. Or, if you did, it was much harder. I would say, people coming in, be prepared to tap into some of those skill sets that you may have and not used, because it'll come in handy. I think, you'll notice from some of those bigger artists out there, not only are their art good, but they’re community members, they’re vocal. I'm sure they know they have things about them that they excel in, in addition to their art, is what I’ll say.
[00:33:14] NG: Yeah. That's the flip side is that, you may need to put in that extra effort that you're not used to do.
[00:33:20] BD: For sure. Yeah. Then you don't have to. I don't think that's the only way. I think, there are also people that have come in and post their work and have just sat back. They've been either – their work just stands out enough that people just straight up, they buy it. I'm seeing that if you want your work to live on and have life even after the initial sale, you have to bring it up to light and talk about it. You know what I mean? Those are, I would think the three advice I'd give. What are they? Okay, don't make it your everything. I say, be patient and just be able to be you and use some of those skills that you're not used to using.
[00:33:58] NG: If you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?
[00:34:03] BD: That's an interesting question. I feel like, it changes every couple of months. It's whenever I'm bored, or whatever part of the city, the city of New York that I live in that I'm bored of, or I'm feeling, I feel like, I want to move to another city that's the opposite of that. I think, right now, I'd love to move to – assuming there's no COVID everything was back to normal, I'd love to move to Japan for a little while.
It would mainly be for two things. The food, number one, and then the photography. I think, I love to plant myself somewhere. Traveling is great, but you don't have that much time to really document and capture things at a pace that you want to. If you live somewhere, I think that would be the ultimate key to spend more time. Japan has been always on my list, especially Tokyo has been always on my list to – just been a long time to figure out to give my take on. It's also another big city, so I know I wouldn't be bored of it as of right now. It'll be there.
[00:35:02] NG: Nice. That's a good one. Do you have any questions for me?
[00:35:06] BD: I do. I basically did a little research. Not that I have enough information. I did research by looking at the posts that you posted, and the pinned tweet. I noticed that you're also very artistic. You have a background in product design. You dabbled in all sorts of artistic ventures, like photography and topology. I see some of your illustrations as well, and I read your story, which I can definitely relate to.
My question is, being somebody who's coming from that background and going to school for it, and you saying that you've been around talented people, was it a little bit discouraging? Or what was the right [inaudible 00:35:47]?
[00:35:48] NG: Oh, yeah. I'm sitting – so I didn't apply for the actual school. I was just doing all the classes for a couple years, to try and get into that school. I'm sitting next to guys there who are sketching up amazing stuff. They haven't even applied yet. I'm like, “Oh, man. I'm screwed.”
[00:36:08] BD: Yeah. I can relate to that. I think, I know what it's like to not feel you're comfortable, I guess. You don't feel comfortable with your work. I think, most artists, I know, I don’t think they ever will. I don't think I ever will. I am very hard on myself. I've just come to accept it. The point of why I'm asking you this is do you think you would ever get back into it in a more serious light? I don't know what you do. It sounds, you have a business. You don’t have to talk about it. Would you ever want to come back and maybe, now that we're moving into a space where I think art is appreciated again?
Not that it wasn't, but it’s more so, and there's more options. I think, it's now the time to own your art. That's the one thing about this space that is refreshing over the last year. It's like, you can own it. If it sucks, there's somebody that's going to like it. Even if it sucks to you, even if it sucks to most people, there's still somebody out there that's going to be attached to it, whether it's the story, or the way you did it, or whatever. Would you ever go back? Would you ever consider going back, number one? Number two, would we ever see something, like a minted collection from the NorCal Guy?
[00:37:22] NG: If I got back into doing the art, I'd probably would do black and white photography, just because I love developing it. I don't know. It was just so fun. I had good memories doing that. Potentially, I would probably, if I wanted to try doing some 3D work, not 3D, like a 3D perpetual motion stuff, like Joe Reba, I think it is, does it? He does one every day. I don't know. I think, it could be interesting. I guess, because I am more of a – I like geometric, symmetric stuff. I feel like, that could be interesting for me, at least.
[00:38:02] BD: Yeah. I think so too. I think, as part of this space, you've seen a lot of artists dabble into different things, right? I know, like my friend Oback and Robbie, they are photographers, but they're not just photographers. This shows in this space, right? They do a bunch of conceptual, digital work. They do AI stuff. There's room for it. They're celebrated with that just as much, not even sometimes even more than their photography work. I'm just telling you this to convince you, because I think the world wants to see the NorCal Guy drop.
[00:38:37] NG: Well, I might drop some of my old work, just to, I guess, if anyone wants it, they can buy it for super cheap, or something. Just also, so it's minted. Finally I did find it, I was searching all these old – the hard drives and everything. They were corrupted. I’m like, “Crap, it's gone forever.” Then I found one randomly in a box, and it worked. I was like, “Oh, I found my art.”
[00:39:04] BD: Nice. If and when you do that, are you more so on the boat now as an artist, where you're on the side of, you're going to provide utilities? Are you more on the camp of, art is the utility? I know there's always those two sides of the fence right now.
[00:39:20] NG: Right. I was thinking, potentially dropping just art for art. Then potentially, something, but I don't even know what kind of utility I would do. I was thinking about dropping something, and then maybe thinking of something to do in the future, but haven't figured something out for that.
[00:39:39] BD: Yeah. Well, I'm sure you'll figure it out. I think, a lot of these things come into place once you start throwing it together. If it needs it, it needs it. If it doesn't, you know.
[00:39:48] NG: I don't want to run a private Discord or anything. I don't know. Get access to it. I don't know. I have no idea.
[00:39:57] BD: Yeah. There's a lot that goes into it these days. I underestimated how much work goes into not just selling work, but the important part is just getting people hyped about it, and building a life after it and all these things. I think, people just are so, “Let me sell this,” and that's it. It's over. That's okay, too. I think, like you, I'm here for the long run. I want to make sure my work lasts. Hopefully, when you put your stuff out, it'll be in the same mindset.
[00:40:27] NG: Right. Yeah. Do you have any shoutouts?
[00:40:29] BD: Yeah. I guess, I'll shout out to a few people. Since you asked the question earlier about how I found out about NFTs. I do want to shout out to a few folks. I might miss them all, who have helped me along with this journey. For example, Mike Concepts, and there's a few others. I don't know most of their real names. I only know them by their Twitter, or Instagram handles, but Andy Knives, Teemu, and my friend Moneris. A few other folks. Sorry, if I'm forgetting everybody.
I think, Henry, Henry Pestoz, something like that. Those people, they were there to answer questions and are kind enough to always take time out of their day to get me onboard, when I had no idea what I was doing. Yeah. Thank you to you guys. Also, dude, thank you to you, man, for putting this stuff together. It's just great to have more visibility from different artists in the community. I think, this is what is helped making it so strong, especially in the photography community, and overall, just adding to the community in general. Yeah. Kudos to you, man.
[00:41:34] NG: Well, thanks. Billy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really enjoyed it.
[00:41:39] BD: Yeah. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
[00:41:40] NG: All right. Well, we'll have to do it again soon. You have a good day.
[00:41:43] BD: All right. Thank you. Take care, everyone.
[END]