Wanderings of a Bipolar Woman

Former Ontario member of parliament Lisa McLeod has always talked openly about her depression and living with bipolar 1 disorder. She now shares regularly on Substack in Diary of a Bipolar Wandering Woman.  In this episode Janice and Lisa have an open conversation about what it's like to live with bipolar 1 and some ideas on how to bring calm into sometimes chaotic days.

Transcript

Choosing To Go Public

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Lisa McLeod was an MPP member of provincial parliament in Ontario for more than a decade. And she a few years ago decided to start talking about her lived experience with mental illness. So I have Lisa on the show today to talk about how she came to terms within herself. Really, I follow her on Substack. So if you want to know everything and anything about Lisa, you can go on to Substack Wanderings of a Bipolar Woman, which I think is the most awesome title I've ever heard. Oh, thank you. So, Lisa, let's talk first about how you made that decision to start talking about your bipolar disorder because you were a public figure. Yeah. And that's a big decision for a public figure.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah, it is. It's it's it's a weird one because I sort of have a love-hate relationship with this bipolar uh diagnosis. And I'll tell you why. On the one hand, um I'm angry for it because it makes me different, it makes me manage something, uh, an illness similar to anybody that has diabetes or or any other type of manageable yet chronic illness. And uh I'm I'm angry at it because I believed that I was going to be at a place in my career in a very different place than I am right now. Now, on the other side, I kind of like having it because I've learned that I'm probably one of the most creative, uh dynamic people that has served in my type of career. And a large measure of it is because of the way my brain works, which is different than other people's. And as a result, it's also forced me to become much more humble, uh, more aware of other people and their issues and compassionate because of it. So it's sort of a double-edged sword, and we I know we say that about a lot of things in life, but um, I'm not where I thought I was supposed to be at 51, but I'm here right now at 51, and it has opened up a lot of different possibilities, despite the fact that some days I won't leave my house, and other days it really does scare me. But by and large, it's also forced me to take on some new projects, it's forced me to look more uh holistically at my life and my family's life. It's it's forced me to look at other opportunities and potential, and it's allowed me to take off the lens that you often get in politics, which is you know, you you view things a certain way because you're in an almost a place of conformity. Well, if you're bipolar, you can't be at any level of conformity because it doesn't, it you know, our our physiology just doesn't allow for it. So it's like I said, a double-edged sword. Um, and and I've decided as a result, if I have to live with it, um, I have to learn about it. And while I'm learning about it, I can share with others so they can understand it too. So that's where I'm sort of at.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Uh talk a little bit about what bipolar is in your life because okay, I've seen Utah um describe it as manic depression. That's what I do a lot of times with people because bipolar is like I say to people, nobody says unipolar for depression, right? So why are we sort of I I almost think of it as whitewashing it in a way, yeah, but anyway, a lot of people, um, because people like you are talking about it are understanding the term bipolar better, but it's hard to understand exactly what it means.

Famous Names And Private Insecurity

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah. Uh so I agree with you. Um, I really did not like when I was diagnosed with bipolar for a whole bunch of reasons. But one was because the whitewashing that you're talking about, I'm a manic depressive. I either am depressed or I am manic, and sometimes I'm in between, but um sometimes the worst place is not the manic or the um depression, it's not the bipolar bipolarity, it is the mixed case or episode in the middle that's also like the most dangerous. And I talk about that a lot in my diary about when that happens, and that's when you're it's it's dangerous because you're depressed, but you have an elevated level of irritability and activity. It's not like the right the depression where you can't move, and it's not like when you're euphoric on the manic side, you've got a collision of two very different issues. And that's why I like to call it manic depressive, and I don't know if I ever told you this, but Frank Sinatra was manic depressive, and he actually said in an interview one time that he was an 18-carat manic depressive, and he wore the badge quite quite well. And so again, when I was diagnosed with it, um, I I didn't really like the term because I thought it was um again, I like what you said, you know, you're not unipolar depression. Although they, you know, technically, I guess you are, but people don't talk about it. Um they they actually say what it is. And then when my when I got the diagnosis, I had this interesting conversation with my psychiatrist at the hospital. He goes, Well, when you go home, he goes, most doctors don't tell you to Google things, but Google it. Just Google what it is and see who's had it. And that's when I found out Frank Sinatra did, and I found out Teddy Roosevelt, and then I found out Vincent Van Gogh, and then Winston Churchill. And then I thought, you know what? If him and all of them and Ernest Hemingway could have survived and succeeded as a result of their bipolarity, or as Frank would say, manic depressive, then then I could have hope as well. And you know, some of them had terrible fates, but while their time on this earth was was shaping um the future in their vocations, they were geniuses. And so I had to accept that there's going to be that duality in my life, but the better way to explain it is you say is manic depressive.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Oh, it's interesting that you talk about famous people. Uh one of the one of the parts of bipolar disorder, and I know you have bipolar one disorder, um, as I as do I. Yeah. Um and um, so you can get very insecure when especially when you're feeling depressed, you can you feel less than you're not as good as people. So I read Patty Duke's Patty Duke's book uh when it came out, so you know, 30 years ago, whenever it was, a brilliant mind. And I read it and I thought, uh, I can't even be a good manic depressive.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Oh, okay. Because you were not reading it when you were euphoric, that's why.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

No, exactly, no, exactly. And um, and then a bunch of years later, I said to my doctor, well, I don't understand why we talk about this being so severe for me, because I'm bipolar one, not bipolar two. So I'm not even the best, you know, because one and two, two is a higher number, therefore it should be No, no, you got the ding ding ding with the prize of number one.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

No, no, I and he said he looked at me and he said, No, that's not the way it is. So that so that was that was good for me, but um, but that insecurity comes back to me all the time. I had it this morning, I was reading your Substack. I was like, Oh, Lisa's such a good writer.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I wish I was you. Well, you're but you're a great host and you're very tenacious. So they all come with different things. Yes.

Writing As Proof And Purpose

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yes, yes. Um I'm much more of a spoken word person. Going to Substack, Wanderings of a Bipolar Woman, um, is an amazing um uh journal of of your journey. And you've said that you like to journal and you like to write, and it and it really helps you um stay in that kind of stable mode, identify when things are going a bit off the rail. And one of the ones is why do you talk about your mental illness? So, can you tell me about that?

SPEAKER_00 8:30

It's funny because you know, when you're in politics, and I like politics, I have no real need to share, but I feel compelled to, and I'll tell you, um, like I've gone through what you go through. Like I will sit there and go, Oh my god, that person's brilliant. Why am I not there? And then the only thing that's worse when you're isolating is isolating and comparing yourself to somebody else that you're probably just as talented at, or maybe even more talented at in something else. But you are, you know, withdrawing from other people, your mind goes in a different place, and then you're feeling and it's not we're not feeling sorry for ourselves. Our mind is actually taking us down a place to tell us we're failure. And then alternatively, when we're euphoric, we don't give a flying fig about what anybody says about us because we actually feel like we're better than them and we have no consequences, and so it's a danger to ourselves. But why I decided to do this bipolar diary is um, and why I share what I share is because I think people need to see there needs to be some sort of documentation about how we as bipolars actually function. And so some days you're getting the good Lisa, some days you're getting the bad Lisa, and by that I mean mood, not like, you know, going out there and breaking something or whatever. But and then other days you get me where I'm more um reflective and uh I'm more stable and I can I can pour my heart out. But a big reason I write is because I spent 20 years in politics and I started right off the bat helping families with children with mental illness, with autism, with um developmental disabilities, with addictions. And I felt that if those parents and those children could come to me and tell me the things that were apparently taboo in the world, that you know what, I have to speak for them. And then it became as I left politics, and parents still came to me with their child with an eating disorder, their child that died by suicide, their child that died by drug addiction. Um, if they could still talk to me and be brave, then I had to do that. And then I had somebody uh basically um basically say, Oh, well, she's just making all this up. And that's the worst thing to say to somebody whose illness is basically in their head. And it it just set me off. And then I got to thinking, oh my God, I hope they never have to understand this illness or any other type of illness. So, in a way, the critic, the person that wanted to hurt me, I'm actually writing for them too, because I never want them to feel alone when they have to look at themselves in the mirror and go, oh my god, how do I tell my colleagues? How do I tell my daughter? How do I tell my neighbor that I have this disease, which is a legitimate disease. It is a medical condition, but in the eyes of society, it's still not considered that way. So then I thought, you know what? I've got lots of people to write for the kids who are brave, myself to understand myself, and the person who really doesn't like me, but in life is gonna actually end up experiencing something. And I want them to know that if they need to call me, I'll be there without judgment.

The Quiet Power Of Speaking Up

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, and that's all that goes to the whole stigma thing, right? Yeah. Um and I've always I've always talked very openly uh about my about my bipolar disorder. I think half the time it's because I didn't realize people might think there was something, you know, like, ooh. Um but what I found was, and it's like you're saying, what I found was every person I spoke to, it's my my wife, my my dad, my my best friend are experiencing some level of uh bipolar disorder, and I don't know what to do. And uh you make the point uh very clearly that uh you're not a medical practitioner, you're not writing from a medical perspective, you're writing from a personal perspective. But um I had a gentleman come up to me one day and I had spoken at a family support event, and he came up to me and he was an older gentleman, and he said, I was at family support, and and I listened to what you said, and I went home and she and he said, My wife's manic depressive. And he said, and I went home and I told your story, and I said to her, You need to go to a doctor, and she did. And he said, and here she is standing beside me.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Well, congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

I don't think there's anything that has ever been said to me in my life that didn't just pierce my heart and think, you know, it does make a difference, and what you're doing does make a difference. Yeah. Um, the other thing I find, and I think this is also goes to your experience where people will talk to you about it, is I've had some people on my show who have never told anybody.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

I had a woman who came on the show and she had borderline personality disorder, never even spoke to her family.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

And she said, I don't know why I did the interview, but she said, Thank you, because now I feel I can go. She said, I've done like a radio show and talked about now. I can go and talk to my family and and and the relief. And I think that that's what's so important about what you do in your writings.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, thank you. Don't you feel like when and just go back to that point that you made, uh, because okay, first of all, you probably just saved two people's lives, maybe more because of the people around them, and not to say that they would take their own life or whatever, but you you gave them a quality of life because you gave them a platform. And they were able to feel that when they spoke with you, there was an intimate bond, even for just a moment, and even if you didn't know well each other well enough, but you became part of their personal army. They needed one more person to believe in them, to speak to their wife, or to tell her that she needed help, or to speak to her family. They need one more person, just one more person, for them to have the confidence to say, I can do this and I can tell somebody. And I see that all the time. And so you saved right there. I'm sure you've done saved more lives, but in that short minute, you just told me you saved two lives without telling me you saved two lives. Imagine.

Three Things She Knows True

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah, I never thought of it that way. I do, I do think that if there's one person listening, um, obviously, it would be great if there were 30,000 people, but if there's one person who's listening who who walks away with something like you're saying, maybe, maybe just understanding that there are other people out there, right? Because you live in this sort of silo of quiet desperation when you're you're ill and you don't know what's happening to you. And the other recent Substack post that you've that you've written was called Three Things I Know to Be True. Yeah. And I think that that if people read that, I think that there are a lot of people who will say, like a breath of you know, relief. So can you just tell me what the what are those three things you know too?

Three Words Beat Long Journals

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, so they're exactly what you said, but I say it in a different way, but it's the same thing. First of all, don't let people tell you what's in your head because guess what? It is in your head. That's why it's a mental illness. So if you feel like you're off, just call the doctor. And and the thing is with this first piece, sometimes you don't call a doctor, sometimes they go on your show, sometimes they go to a talk. I find when I'm speaking about mental illness, the people who have it already that have been diagnosed, sit at the front, or the clinicians sit at the front, or the parent of the child who's been opened has been at the front. It's the people in the back row that are sitting there wondering, how am I going to help my child? How am I going to help my spouse? How am I going to help myself? And they're at the back. And my message always, in some way, shape, or form is if you're in that situation where you think it's in your head or people telling you it's nothing, and you think it is, you're always right. So call a doctor, call one of the hotlines, at least get the conversation flowing, but don't ever let anybody tell you it's just in your head. The second, and I said this, it's deceptively simple. And it came from my psychiatrist after I was um in a very unfortunate situation, and a few months later we got get the bipolar diagnosis. But he said to me, write down three things every day, every day on how you feel and what your mood is. And when I was, it was I was going through bipolar depression, was which isn't exactly the same as, as you say, unipolar depression. And I would write down. And I started noticing that the three things I would see would be the same all the time. And it never was depression. The word that would come weeks upon weeks upon weeks was despair, which means was worse than depression. It was worse than hopeless. Despair was the worst word, and then it would change, and on I would notice when I was moving up that euphoria would start to be number three, then it would be number two, then it'd be number one. And that's when I would recognize that I was going into a manic state. And I would have that log every single day, no matter what my mood was, every single day. It took sometimes a little bit harder when you're depressed, but I would write it down and it helped me and it helped my family. And I was able to go back to my psychiatrist and say, this is what I'm doing. And the third thing I have to say is you need a circle of trust. And sometimes it is just that one other person. It could be me, it could be you, and it could be someone we barely even know. But I recommend it being someone close to you because they're the ones that are going to see you on a day-to-day basis. And when you think you're doing super great in life and you might be manic, they'll be able to tell you, you know, come back. We may need to look at your medication, or you think you're doing just fine, but you haven't left the house in two weeks. And so it's really important to have that one person that you can rely on that can also help speak to your physician or your psychiatrist or psychologist to help be that gut check. So, first thing is don't let people talk you out of it. See a doctor if you feel it. And number two, know your words, write your words, track your words. And then number three is bring somebody into that circle that's close. And if you don't have somebody that is close and that's tough enough, um, there's lots of people around that would be happy to sort of, you know, listen. And so ironically, that was the post that had so many more people reach out to me and uh say, you know, I've just been diagnosed. I don't know how to tell my husband, um, what should I do? And uh I'll say, Well, I told my husband and I'm alive because of him. And so, so that's where I, you know, this bipolar um diary has been sort of an interesting read for me.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Well, I love the idea of the three words because people say, Oh, write about it. And then of course, I think I have to write 15 pages in a diary. I have to journal. Well, journal is one of my least favorite words in in the world. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it because it means, you know, people say, Well, I sit down at night and I write about my day every day, and I think I want to sit down at night, crawl into bed, and read a book.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

So this journaling thing. Um, so I try it a little bit, and and but I love this idea that you put down three words because we can do that and it centers me.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah, and it's it's quick, and you but you have to be a little bit thoughtful. Um, you don't just go, oh, I'm happy, sad, mad. No, it's it's choose your words, what are the words, and your words are gonna be you become more comfortable with them. Yeah, look, it's like anything in this world. I can't control that I have bipolar disorder, but I can manage it, and some days I'm not gonna manage it well. Um but but one of the things I I needed to do was take ownership of my life, and I couldn't give it away to a disease I barely know, and basically society doesn't understand.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Um, I wanted to ask you quickly because the most recent thing for me is that I have uh uh my memory is getting worse and worse. And uh and I went through a lot of tests and it, you know, neurologically I'm fine. So it's it's uh an issue with ADHD. I learned what that is because it does, it's this made me feel so much better. The the thing that happens doesn't actually go into your brain and then you forget, it never gets there in the first place. Oh, yeah, but it's very challenging in business and in my personal life. It's very challenging because people don't understand why they tell me things four times. Is that something that that you experience as well?

Memory Worries And ADHD

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah, I'm glad that you said it actually makes me feel a little bit better about myself because I will look at people and I'm like, I I don't remember you telling me this. And again, four times. Poor daughter, I wish she were here listening to it because she I think she thinks I just don't listen. But I um I I won't will not have one iota of recollection. Recollection sometimes of conversations, not one iota. And I was talking about this yesterday. I had um lunch with Steve Pathan, you know, formerly of the T TBO, still, I guess TBO. Everyone knows Steve. He's a wonderful person. Of course, he asks one question and he sits there because he's the best journalist in the country. You know, you can talk for an hour and you're like, oh wow. But it was interesting because on a few occasions I said, I have absolutely no recollection. Like it's not even in my mind a few of these things that, you know, people have told me that like you don't ever have to worry about me. I never know if I'll remember it, you know, in a few minutes or not. But it's uh that's a real um, a real, I don't know if it's a side effect, but I've talked to my psychiatrist about it too, because I feel like how can at 51 years old be I can I be this old? Like, am I is I I've asked asked him actually if I have like to on early onset dementia because of it, but I'm I'm not happy to hear, but uh comforted to hear that I'm not alone in it.

Where To Follow Lisa

SPEAKER_01 22:59

So it was actually a neurological psychiatrist. Yeah, so everything came back normal. And she was the one who said to me, it it's not getting past the headbone, like it's just not even getting in there. So, like you were saying, it it's not that there was a memory. If it's a memory that you forget, usually it's triggered a little bit if somebody says, Well, you know, and then you'll say, Oh, yeah, I kind of remember that. So I felt so much better to know actually not getting past my headbone. Yeah, yeah. Um, Lisa, we have to finish up here. We could talk forever. If you're not on Substack, it's an amazing um place to be now. To there's so many people to follow, friends to communicate with, but go on and and immediately follow Lisa Wanderings of a Bipolar Woman. And thank you for sharing so openly because I know there are people out there who are still alive because of of what you're what you talk about.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

You can listen to all shows of Life Unscripted on 610 CKTV, your favorite podcast app, or on my website at lifeunscripted.ca.