In this episode, we dive deep into using ChatGPT in the career development process. Discover the potential impact of using this controversial technology when building your resume and cover letter. We share personal experiences and insights from our audience on the use of ChatGPT in resume and cover letter creation, discussing the importance of using AI tools as a resource rather than relying solely on them for your career development needs.
From identifying keywords in job descriptions to structuring and formatting your resume, ChatGPT can be a valuable tool when used correctly. However, we emphasize the need for authenticity in your professional documents and how to ensure your personal touch remains evident. Have you used ChatGPT in your resume and cover letter? Let us know in the comments!
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.mjcareerconfidence.com
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In this episode, we dive deep into using ChatGPT in the career development process. Discover the potential impact of using this controversial technology when building your resume and cover letter. We share personal experiences and insights from our audience on the use of ChatGPT in resume and cover letter creation, discussing the importance of using AI tools as a resource rather than relying solely on them for your career development needs.
From identifying keywords in job descriptions to structuring and formatting your resume, ChatGPT can be a valuable tool when used correctly. However, we emphasize the need for authenticity in your professional documents and how to ensure your personal touch remains evident. Have you used ChatGPT in your resume and cover letter? Let us know in the comments!
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.mjcareerconfidence.com
Follow Us on IG!
Follow Us on LinkedIn:
Hello, hello everyone Welcome back. Hi friends welcome back.
Speaker 1:So, mj, what are we talking about today?
Speaker 2:I'm excited, you're excited, but we're also a little bit nervous because we're going to talk about the infamous chat GPT And specifically, we're going to focus today on how you, how individuals, how people, how the internet has really used it as a career tool, specifically in the resume cover letter developing aspect of it all. Armin and I have seen hundreds, i want to say even thousands, of resumes cover letters. We review them night and day. Yes, it's part of our job, but it's also part of the thing that we live to do to support individuals enhancing their own career development, as that is an important aspect. But today we're going to focus on chat GPT and what it's like If you follow us on Instagram. We were asking, we were trying to take some poll or do a little bit of research on what our audiences actually have used it for, if they've used it for anything specifically related to career. So let's get started.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's do it. Why don't we share some of the responses we got?
Speaker 2:on Instagram. Yeah, so if you don't know what chat GPT is, it is an AI, it's an artificial intelligence tool, right? That's? that was designed to mimic a human conversation with the user, the consumer. In this point, it gathers information from the internet, from scholarly articles, from all types of different places, and it's essentially kind of like a Google that talks back to you and doesn't just throw links at you, right? Yeah, it provides you with a more detailed response And it's very freaky, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:We were trying it out earlier in preparation for this episode. It really is intense because it's so quick, and I think that's one way that it's different from Google is that, one, it may mix a conversation, but two, it's so quick, it gives you a direct response to the question you're asking and within seconds.
Speaker 2:You know, funny, when we were playing with it for quite a while and at one point I was like I'm expecting this thing to just talk back at you And it like say what it's. that's crazy, almost like Alexa or Siri or any other like artificial intelligent thing that we that we have in our and in our access, right. So, okay, what did some of our audience say in terms of have they used chat, gpt? If so, what has it been like? Or if they haven't used it at all, some of our audience has not used it at all And some have. right, some of you have really strong feelings about it in a positive way. right, it's helpful, it has landed you an interview, it supported you in your resume and developing the layout.
Speaker 2:Some of you believe that it can help find different career options. Others have used it for more specific parts of a resume, right. So for resume, specifically in terms of formatting layout, how to talk about the different skills you have, action verbs to use when writing your bullet points. And then a few people also said how it's a nice resource to have. However, it shouldn't be the only resource you use, right, and to use it as just that. Armin and I both agree with one another that chat GPT is a resource. It is a is a form of, it's a tool, right, it's built for humans. However, it shouldn't be the only tool in your toolkit.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely. We're passionate about this in the sense that chat GPT can be very helpful And specifically, of course, we're talking about resumes and cover letters and job search right now. It can be very helpful. However, there's a fine line between you being able to authentically express yourself when it comes to your resume and your cover letter and when it becomes something that's just generated by AI and doesn't sound anything like you, doesn't represent you accurately. That's where it gets tricky, because we've said this in previous episodes we say this to our students and clients all the time. Employers want authenticity, they want to see who you are as a person, and it all starts with your resume. That's the first thing that they see about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are really excited to get into the into the depths and trenches, if you will, of this tool and what it's like in the different forms, some of our tips when using it and some of our the things that we kind of caught while using it as well. You mentioned using it as a as a research tool, right, and that that authenticity and that that missing spark of being a human being and how this AI machine is very general And it's not very specific at all, and Armin and I have done tons and tons of research on this and we're really, really excited because it's something that we, i would say, recently started hearing a lot more in the different aspects of our job. Right, sometimes students kind of talk about it or some of our own student staff kind of play with it just to see what it looks like, and there's varied opinions on what it, what it, how it should look, how you should use it, how you shouldn't use it, what you should use it for different things like that.
Speaker 1:Even faculty. There are some faculty who really supported and encourage it because they their perspective has has been that students are going to use it anyway, so we might as well find a way to incorporate it So it's done in a healthy way. And then there are faculty who are against it. So the reality is it's here, there's no escaping it. So we kind of have to face it and see, you know what, how it can be used to our benefit without hurting us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i look anything. Yeah, I will tell you all of the counselors we've talked to. It's not that they're well, we are. it's because we're not against it. We're aware that it exists. We're not for it, but we're also not against it because it can be helpful in the small tasks that are very tedious, right? So, for example, annotating a job description for keywords right, throwing a job description in there, or an internship opportunity or a scholarship opportunity right, that you really want to apply for and saying, hey, can you pull up some of the keywords or the top skills asked for in this description? right? That takes a lot of time out of a human being and a lot of energy. However, this machine now allows you to do that. All you have to do is prompt it, and I would say, prompt it in the right way, because, as we've learned playing with it and hearing different podcasts and reading articles, you can even just YouTube now, or Google. like what are some prompts for chat? GPT on blank, right, and then fill in the blank, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's super important to like put in thought in terms of how you're prompting it so that you could get the responses that are going to benefit you. But that is definitely one way to utilize chat GPT effectively where it doesn't take away from your authenticity or your human touch, but it actually it just helps you learn more about the position that you're applying to. So, asking for keywords from the job description or asking it what are some key skills that a position in X, y and Z might need, and that kind of eliminates your time in terms of analyzing the job description yourself. So that's where it makes your job more efficient. However, it doesn't take away from your personal brand. So I think, in that sense, we've come to an agreement that that is one way you can use it. Another way you can use it is asking it what type of content to include in a resume or a cover letter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, So, we asked that and actually we were pretty, pretty happy with the responses. There were a few things we're going to get into in a second, but overall it did a good job of explaining what kind of sections to include on a resume. So all those different categories when we're working with our clients, we're telling them what to do, how to categorize their experiences to tailor it to this job description. Chat GPT actually gave a good overview of what kind of categories you can have on a resume. So in that sense it's kind of like doing research to learn more about what a resume or cover letter should include.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i'm just going back through the thread of the conversation and some of the things that like. so one thing I noticed, so it, armin, i was talking about the different sections, right, so it didn't just spit out like skills, experience, education, it did in a methodical way And if you were trained in anything career related, you know that there are four different types of resume writing, right, so it it wrote the. so I asked it, just so you know. I asked it five, five words. what does a resume include?
Speaker 2:And it gave right from top to bottom and started with content, information, which is the header of your resume, and it listed in bullet points your, your name, your address, your phone, your email, all these other things, personal links. and it wrote it in a traditional resume format, right where you start with the most recent or current thing. So, for example, education is usually at the top of one right, it's traditional And I prompted it before with, like student questions. So it made sense that education kind of came up first in the section, then it has some work experience, skills, and then additional sections, references, and those are the seven sections it gave. So out of here, armin and I were extremely impressed because it even listed some different bullet points about things that you can write like make sure to provide your company name, your job title, right? Some some of these things may be obvious to some of us, but sometimes these aren't obvious, right? Because not everybody kind of knows how to write a resume.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, i mean, oftentimes, when we're reviewing resumes, we'll see sections missing. We'll see sections in the in the order that's maybe less traditional or less recommended by us. So we'll we'll be encouraging our clients to change up the order, add new categories. So in that context, right, someone who maybe is writing a resume for the first time, or really revamping their entire resume, maybe doing a career change or something like that, can research and see what kind of sections to include on a resume. But beyond that, that's where it becomes a little bit of a gray area.
Speaker 1:There were a few things we noticed that we didn't agree with, based on our training, the most up to date trends on resumes. So, for example, chat GPT recommended to have a references section, and that is definitely anyone who's who's written a recent resume knows we don't put references on a resume any longer. It used to be a common trend years ago, but it's it's definitely been removed because it's pretty much a given that once, once, an employer asks for references you're going to provide it and there's a separate document that you can use for that.
Speaker 1:You don't need to use up space on your resume for that, yeah, i agree.
Speaker 2:The other, the other thing, or the other section that it prompted, was a resume objective slash summary, right. So it defined that. it's like a brief statement. If you don't know what that is a brief statement of your career goals, relevant skills or qualifications that can be useful to customize to this job, right, why don't we say why? why do we discourage this section? Obviously, this section takes a good like four to five lines on on your document. We don't encourage this, one because it's obvious and two because this is information that's written in a cover letter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and there are certain situations. maybe somebody who's who's changing careers or somebody who's been in an industry for like 20 plus years has a summary to share. but for for a recent, you know, graduates or someone who's just starting off in their career Entry or mid level Yeah it's, it's really not needed because there is not much to put in a summary. that's going to be different from a cover letter. Yeah, yeah. and then the last thing that we noticed that it recommended, that we didn't really agree with, was use online resume builder, so something like Canva.
Speaker 1:We definitely always discouraged that. If you've worked with us on your resume, you know you've probably heard our spiel on that, but we definitely discouraged it And the reason is because of ATS software.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Arminay is referring to. I asked So, so let me let me tell you the full story before I get into some of the details. I asked chat to BT what platform should I use to write my resume? The first one, right, it gave. Let me see four different platforms. The first one is Microsoft Word And if Arminay just mentioned an applicant tracking system, or an ATS as we will refer to them from now on, microsoft Word was the platform in which ATS softwares are trained to read on, specifically, a blank document coming from Microsoft Word.
Speaker 2:Right, so, not a template, not a pre designed calendar, nothing like that. Right, so plain document with text only, no images, no graphs, no charts, no tables. No, no columns, it's so specific. No text boxes. The list can kind of go on and on. Actually, all you want is text on there, right, text from your keyboard. So Microsoft Word was the number one platform. However, it did say that you, you want you, or recommends you, to use resume builder. Right, a resume builder such as Zesty, resumeio or Canva. Right, where you have pre designed templates that are not ATS friendly. Right, the chat dbt does tell you that these are user friendly, but it doesn't refer, or doesn't ever reference an ATS software, which can be troubling if you are writing a resume. However, where does it mention an ATS software when it's talking about the use of keywords and action verbs? So it's kind of interesting the way it works.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. It's like it talked about ATS, which is super important in the job search process. It talks about that in one aspect, but not fully, where you need to understand why you shouldn't use Canva or any other online resume builder. Sure And Canva resumes I always tell my clients They're so pretty.
Speaker 1:They're so beautiful, like I wish my resume could look like that too, but the reality is that the more the simple and the traditional looking ones are the ones that are going to pass to ATS software, and more and more companies are using software to read your resume, especially the bigger ones where they're getting hundreds or thousands of applications. Yeah, it's not going to be a person reviewing that first round, so you want to pass that software. So we were listening to another podcast. It was called The Way They Described That. They Said It's Now ChatGPT versus ATS software, so robot against robot.
Speaker 2:It's insane the way this kind of populated so much different information and the way in which. So, first of all, like all of the information on here, right? So let's take a second to talk about that. I know you and I both were reading and hearing different podcasts, and people talk about how, when this was built and when it was released, the information that's on here was pulled from books, was pulled from the internet, was pulled from articles, yada, yada, yada, but it's only up until the knowledge that was on the internet into 2021.
Speaker 2:Right, so it has it does not yet have the knowledge, unless they've updated it for 2022-2023. So if anything in resume creating or crafting has changed, or anything, right Really in the world, because this is not just a career tool The information may not be updated, right? So you need to vet every single thing that ChatGPT kind of spits out as information, just like you would question Google, right? Or maybe a friend or a family member of like, why should my margins be half an inch, right? So you definitely want to go behind the scenes and look a little bit more into what the information is telling you as a writing tool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and so let's say you are kind of using it for help with your resume. What we encourage in that sense is to again use it more like a research tool and avoid copying the information that it spits out. Otherwise, your resume is going to be the same as everybody else who uses ChatGPT to apply to that same job. There's going to be no distinction or no personal touch, and eventually, in one of the podcasts we listened to, they actually made a really great point. There's going to come a time where the employers are going to recognize all the ChatGPT resumes and they're going to be looking for, okay, which one actually sounds like a person wrote it.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, my gosh. Okay. So you and I have both served on multiple committees throughout our various roles in higher education where we've had to be on hiring committees right As many of you have probably served on hiring committees.
Speaker 2:In a hiring committee, you review applicants' applications, right. And then there are documents, whether that be a resume, whether that be a cover letter, a letter of intent, any other supplemental documents or written questions that you ask for, right. So recently, i am well currently am on a hiring committee and reviewing resumes and cover letters constantly And, funny enough, you can tell when individuals have used aspects of ChatGPT. And again, i will tell you we didn't ask this person, right, we didn't ask them if they used ChatGPT and I'm sure if we did, they don't think they would tell us the truth, but you can tell that the writing of it right. And Armin and I have asked ChatGPT. some of our student staff has also asked it to create a cover letter.
Speaker 2:The language does not come from a human being, obviously well, that's obvious, but it sounds Well one. it didn't even make sense. It was very strange and I kind of had to read it a few times to be like wait what? And this is where you want to use chat GPT as a research. as for research as a resource, versus copying and pasting what it tells you, because a lot of the time it's very generic or it can use complicated language that's not really an average human beings vocabulary, even those who practice career development training every day of our lives. But you can tell the parts where it was designed by a robot because it made no damn sense versus the parts that were actually written by a human being, which is crazy.
Speaker 1:You know, and the interesting part with that is imagine, right, let's say you use chat GPT to build your resume cover letter and you don't edit it and you don't change it to sound like you. You submit that and let's say you get an interview but then you go into the interview and you sound nothing like your resume and cover letter sounded. What is that going to look like? Yeah, and likely, that's not going to work out well. So actually there was a study done by resumebuildercom in a recent study and they found that 46% of applicants used an AI generated resume and sure, they got higher response rates in terms of getting a call back for an interview. However, beyond that, they don't know like how many of those people the 46% how many of them were actually hired. So the reality is you don't know what's going to happen. Just getting an interview alone is really not the success rate. That's not what you're looking for. The success rate is you getting a job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like you think you're in the library. you're in a library and you see this the most amazing, the most beautiful cover to a book ever. You open it up and it's nothing like the cover.
Speaker 1:It's not intriguing.
Speaker 2:It's boring. It doesn't make any sense. It's nothing like what you thought. This is the opposite of don't judge a book by its cover. here, the other thing I want to bounce off of what you were saying was I went to one of the podcasts we were listening to. The person was talking about how now employers are going to start implementing different tactics in an application where there's written responses So similar to a college or graduate school or training school or any type of application where you have to write a written section like an essay or a prompt, where you get a prompt and you have to write a two paragraph response to something. they're going to start implementing that to see if the communication style, the language you use in your documents, match that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so applications are going to get harder as employers are trying to vet out the human from the robot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, And I will tell you that you may find mixed reviews about who reads like. Does only an applicant tracking system review your resume and cover letter? do humans review your cover letter? So I find it makes response no matter where you look for that information. But as individuals who are in the field and common looking humans will always review resumes. I don't think that's ever not going to be, because guess who has to do the interviewing? we do, human beings do. We have to know what we're walking into. We have to know the background of the human being right coming in. And, like you said, if you have no clue what is on your resume or how it was written by chat GBT, that's a bad reflection on you. And guess what industries are small, no matter how big they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you don't want to have that reputation, because people know each other and and the network networks get smaller and smaller every day.
Speaker 2:And the other thing too is how then, can you tell your chat GBT resume apart from the next person who use chat GBT or another AI right form of machinery to develop their resumes? how will you stand out as a candidate where everybody kind of just looks the same Exactly, yeah, okay, yeah, just one more. We have another final question, armin A. Let's talk about using chat GPT. So what if? okay, this whole podcast sounds kind of like we're against it. I promise we again aware that it exists.
Speaker 2:We're not for it, but we're also not completely against it because it could be used as a research tool. But let's say I really want to apply to this job. Okay, your services are booked and I'm just gonna go to the next Bex thing, which is absolutely free, because chat GPT is free And I need help reviewing my resume. What are some of the tips you would have for me if I were to choose to write my resume or ask it for some support?
Speaker 1:Sure, i would say to first ask general questions in terms of what to include in a resume, yeah, and what to include in a cover letter. You're welcome to ask questions about the type of job you're applying to. So let's say you're applying to social media manager type of position. Ask chat, gpt what are some key skills that a social media manager should have? And use that content to then go back to your resume yourself, human being, and look into your resume and think about where do those skills show up and how can you embed those skills that a social media manager should have into your resume so that you can actually show that you're qualified for the job.
Speaker 2:So I would ask those types of questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that, And the reason why I prompted you with that question is because I want to reinforce the idea that we're not encouraging you develop your resume and chat GPT, but you have it yourself right Built on Microsoft Word, on whatever platform is available to you where you can have text right. The easiest or the most accessible ones are like Google Docs and Microsoft Word On here is where you have your resume and then you have chat GPT as a tool, right? You don't write it in there. So we really wanted to get that point across, because sometimes things can get confusing and we want to make sure that you're using it in a way where you are adding your own personal I like to call it flavor and spice, because your resume is a reflection of you. Your professional documents are the first things that your potential employers, your networking, your network, your peers, the people you might work with, are gonna see of you, right?
Speaker 1:I always say once your resume is done and you look at it, you go, oh my gosh, you should get a feeling of accomplishment and feel like, wow, i actually have a lot of knowledge and skills. And I see that happen. The life of always goes off in my work with my clients, but it's work. I mean it is work, especially when you're first developing a resume from scratch. Sure, it's gonna be hard work, but you know, like that cheesy line, anything worth having is worth working for.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's true, putting in the effort in the beginning, eventually it gets easier. But once you have the formatting and everything done, it gets easier. You just add content over time. But the reality is that you have to put in the work because that's what's gonna keep the human touch, the spice that MJ was talking about, and that's what's really gonna be reflected in your interviews. Because, also, you can use your resume to help you prepare for an interview. But if you don't write that resume, it's not gonna help you prepare for the interview because you haven't thought of that information yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the other thing too, with chat, gbc and again, we're not like, we're not trying to call it the worst thing ever when it comes to career support, but the other thing, too, is it writes things that also may not be true to you and it may sound great and it may sound fancy and it may sound industry tailored right, exactly what we want but is that?
Speaker 2:true of you? and do you really wanna lie on a document to the next company, organization, institution you're gonna work for A lot of the times people fall in love with the look of things before they look into the fine details. When you look into the fine details of things, you notice things that are inconsistent. right, so it's. and then, who knows, right, you copy one of the bullet points or action statements or what was I? I kept hearing like result oriented statement or sentence, And that cracked me up because that's essentially what we say every day and I'm like great, all you could do is now put it into a machine. But my whole point was to not just copy and paste the bullet points on there, but to really take the time to craft it yourself and develop those skills that you earned, that you strengthened in that experience, and then put them on your resume Because you should feel confident and excited and ready.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. and imagine being able to speak on all of those bullet points, because you put in the thought to develop them yourself, So your interview is gonna be that much better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, china GPT is forever evolving. I think I don't think it's anywhere. It's not going to be gone anytime soon. Right, we're just are gonna have to live with it, and as career counselors, it's kind of a conversation that comes up frequently, right? I remember when it all started becoming super, super, super popular, we all had kind of a discussion of like, are we, what are we gonna do? really? Right, because students are using this, they wanna use the most efficient way. Right, because they're stressed, they have so many other things going on. Right, human beings working parents, individuals who work like 60 hour jobs or work multiple jobs and wanna apply for a different one, or like the average human being right, doesn't always have all the career knowledge we do. So what are you going to do? Go use the next best thing that can help you right, elevate and make you feel a little bit different. but if it's not always truthful and it's not really who you are, is that really what you want the world to see you for?
Speaker 1:Definitely. We've said this in a previous podcast too, but there are no shortcuts.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:There are no shortcuts to quality work. So, yes, use chat, gpt to help you maybe minimize some of the time that you're going to put on your resume and cover letter, to help you be more efficient in that process, to learn some content that you could include. And then, beyond that, we, as career counselors, encourage you to put in the thought, put in the time and use your own voice so that you can be authentic, because, at the end of the day, there are no shortcuts. If you've been following me, then you may already know that I have a platform, career Rise, which is dedicated to helping people in their career development process.
Speaker 1:I believe that each person has the ability to grow, evolve and make informed decisions, but sometimes our internal compass gets blurry when we take in messages from society, culture and other aspects of the world. So my goal is to help you clarify your goals, make a plan and learn practical tools and strategies to find a fulfilling career. On my website, you'll notice that I offer one-on-one meetings with clients to discuss any of the following topics career decision making, job search, interview prep or graduate school applications. I also have a resume building course which I'll link in the show notes below. This course is recorded videos of me explaining every aspect of a resume, almost as if you're working with me in a live meeting. Another main part of my platform is a free subscription service to access resources and a monthly newsletter on all things career. If you're currently job searching, i've listed targeted websites on my homepage for you to browse and hopefully find your next opportunity. I'll see you on my website.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody and thank you for listening to today's episode.
Speaker 2:I want to share with you that I recently launched an Instagram platform called Career Confidence, with the intention and purpose of empowering, inspiring and promoting confidence in all aspects of our lives, especially in our career journeys, specifically with the lens of career as a career counselor. Confidence is not something that is prepackaged, but developed and strengthened through our experiences and can look and feel different for each individual. As a fellow career counselor, educator and higher education professional, along with all being first gen, my personal promise is to create a positive impact so we can build and grow our career confidence. I'm excited to continue sharing my narrative, as I do on here with you, but also on Instagram now, as a first generation Latina professional, and how I continue forming and growing into my career confidence. I'm hopeful that this platform will serve as a source of authenticity, inspiration and as a resource in all career related topics. Stay tuned, not only to learn more about my story and dedicated work, but join me as I grow and transform in the counseling and higher education space. See you on Instagram.