How do you navigate the whirlpool that is the hiring process while presenting your best self? Join us as we guide you through career mysteries, from initial reviews to the high-stake final round interviews. You'll gain insight of what happens behind the scenes after applying to a job. We discuss the challenges of decision-making and the various factors that come into play when selecting a candidate. Understanding the behind scenes will help you navigate the job application, interview, and candidate selection process and ideally, enhance your confidence!
We address the elephant in the room — timelines in the hiring process. From the factors that affect this timeline to the subtle power dynamics that play out, we delve into it all! We also stress the importance of following up and the crucial impact of a simple thank you email. As a bonus, we touch upon the role of your online presence in shaping opinions about you as a candidate. So, gear up for a career chat energized by your favorite cup of coffee and a healthy dose of curiosity.
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.mjcareerconfidence.com
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How do you navigate the whirlpool that is the hiring process while presenting your best self? Join us as we guide you through career mysteries, from initial reviews to the high-stake final round interviews. You'll gain insight of what happens behind the scenes after applying to a job. We discuss the challenges of decision-making and the various factors that come into play when selecting a candidate. Understanding the behind scenes will help you navigate the job application, interview, and candidate selection process and ideally, enhance your confidence!
We address the elephant in the room — timelines in the hiring process. From the factors that affect this timeline to the subtle power dynamics that play out, we delve into it all! We also stress the importance of following up and the crucial impact of a simple thank you email. As a bonus, we touch upon the role of your online presence in shaping opinions about you as a candidate. So, gear up for a career chat energized by your favorite cup of coffee and a healthy dose of curiosity.
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.mjcareerconfidence.com
Follow Us on IG!
Follow Us on LinkedIn:
Hello everyone, welcome back, welcome, welcome back to Coffee and Career Hour. We have our coffees in hand and we're ready to talk about the next hot topic in your career.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I love that we have our coffees in hand.
Speaker 2:I wasn't even planned like, oh, we have to have coffee because it's coffee and career.
Speaker 1:It just happened. It just happened, so we hope you're having a nice cup of coffee, whether you're listening to this in the morning or you're listening to it at night. I drink coffee in the morning and at night and during the day, all day.
Speaker 2:All day. But yes, thank you for joining us today. So today we want to share with you some behind the scenes of what happens after you apply to a job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we, we figured that a lot of the time. Individuals and you can tell right now the world of work is in a kind of a crazy place where people feel like they're applying to hundreds of jobs and they're not getting callbacks and it's a whole nother conversation for a whole nother day. But Armin and I wanted to really share with you what happens when your application does get through to either a recruiter, a hiring committee or maybe in the hands of one of us too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, both of us have served on hiring committees on multiple occasions at different jobs that we've had, so and I'm just recently served on one, so we have some goods to share with you all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I'm going to tell me what is a hiring committee. What is that? What is what?
Speaker 2:does that even mean?
Speaker 1:And who is on a hiring committee, sure?
Speaker 2:So it's a group of people who will be essentially reviewing, interviewing and making the decision on who gets hired for any given position. Most positions out there are reviewed by a committee instead of just one individual person, because of course, people want different opinions, different perspectives. What I've seen that happens with the committee is the group that's formed they try to get a variety of people, so it'll be people who have, like, different roles within that company or work in different divisions within the company, just because they'll have a different perspective, and so a committee can be from anywhere from like four people to seven people, depending, I guess, on the level of position or how big the company is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know traditionally that we tend to see kind of not the side of a hiring committee and we more often in society see the side of a recruiter or one person who is reviewing the resume or works in HR and a human resource representative, and they see kind of the application and they funnel it through the channels that it needs to go.
Speaker 1:But ultimately your application does get reviewed by a hiring committee and it can be very small, like Armin I said, two people or it can be very large seven. It really depends on your industry and the type of role that you are applying for. But recruiters do take a large spot or position within this process because they're kind of coordinating all of this while individuals on the hiring committee are waiting, are reviewing documents are present for different types of interviews in different stages and responsible for different aspects, which we're going to get into in today's episode.
Speaker 1:But let's say we apply for a job. Armin and I have our backgrounds within education, specifically in higher education, so we'll largely be talking about our experience in there. But being career counselors, we do know aspects of what it's like for some of our employers and our recruiters as well. But let's say you submit an application, what kind of happens? Does it go through this AI generated computer? Does it get seen by a human ever? Do you ever read my cover letter? What happens, armin?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's an interesting question so it can get read by AI software. It usually does, especially for big companies where they're getting hundreds and hundreds of applicants for a position. So know that that and that is becoming a more and more popular trend as technology advances. So that's why we talk all we always talk about targeting your resume and meeting the ATS software requirements and things like that. So, yes, it likely goes through for most companies through ATS software system first round. Then it gets to that first person who could be either the HR representative, the recruiter or the employer, depending on how that company functions. They might not be using a recruiter, or so it gets to the first round of human eyes if it passes the ATS software.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. And what, like some of the most frequently asked questions we get all the time is okay, you, as career counselors, advise me and encourage me to tailor my resume? Does?
Speaker 1:it actually get read, what are things that get looked out for? So your resume does get read. We scan it. I think is the keyword here is we do scan individuals resumes. We do really do pay attention to the action Well, yes, the action verbs, but the bullet points is what I meant to say. We pay attention to the bullet points. The layout Is it clear? Is it easy to read, is it easy to follow?
Speaker 2:So your resume does get read.
Speaker 1:If you remember, a couple weeks ago, when we're talking about resumes, we're talking about how it should be one page. If it's longer than one page, we pay attention to what that looks like and is it intriguing enough to go to the next page and individuals have a really strong I feel like society has a strong opinion with cover letters. Poor cover letters because they get the heat A lot of the time. An individual don't like to write them and guess what those actually get read. And you can tell a lot from a cover letter.
Speaker 1:If it's very generic and it sounds with that, it has no personality. We can totally tell. If you put some authenticity into it and you and you sprinkle in a little bit of personal experience and you really demonstrate to the recruiter that you genuinely and authentically want this position, you can tell. So I, we want to advise you that no matter how long these things take you to write and we emphasize this all the time your documents should be tailored to the position because ultimately they do get seen by human beings and then the hiring committee actually reviews them. So it's much more than just one person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it gets sent out to the rest of the folks who might be on the interview panels and things like that. So a lot of I see those resumes and cover letters. And one thing about cover letters too is that even if let's just say the recruiter, you know they're doing the screening rounds so maybe they don't take the time to read your cover letter. But let's say it gets to the point you've gone through multiple rounds of interviews and it's between you and another candidate. That's where then and it's like a sticky situation they're going to go back to your resume, your cover letter, compare and contrast to see you know who fits the role better. So it will come in handy at some point in the interview process.
Speaker 1:That's very, very true. I've actually I've been told that my documents were read a second time when I got to the final rounds, not for this position that I have, but a prior position. It's so interesting because I remember them saying when they when they called me and let me know that I was a final candidate but I didn't get it, they did say you know, your cover letter was extremely strong. We can tell that you're really genuinely passionate about this field, all this adiabha yada. So it made me feel really, really good to know that somebody read my cover letter right and went back to it too.
Speaker 1:So yeah, cover letters. You got to think about what that, what that looks like, and again, it's your personal brand and do you really want this position or are you just applying to apply?
Speaker 2:Exactly. You put work into it right, so it's validating that like it actually makes a difference. And people read it. But they do, and what the committee does when they're reviewing is they'll look at the job description. Now, keep in mind that the committee members hardly ever expect you to meet 100% of the job.
Speaker 1:That's very true too.
Speaker 2:Nobody ever actually meets 100% right. That's why I always say to my clients if you're meeting around 85% of the requirements of the job, take a risk and apply, that's right. So, with that said, the committee knows that the candidates aren't going to meet 100% of the requirements. So what they'll do a lot of the times is like analyze the job description and say, okay, which are the most essential aspects of this role that we need the interviewees to meet? Then they'll look at your resume and cover letter to make sure that at least you're meeting the most essential aspects that they've determined, to then figure out who's going to move on to the next round.
Speaker 1:Yeah, remember Pro Tip. You do not have to check off all the boxes when you're applying to a job. It's definitely okay if there are 12 requirements. If you meet more than half, please take the risk and apply. Ensure that your resume and cover letter have different keywords, have specific examples and show how you're a competitive candidate, moving on from resumes and cover letters what else?
Speaker 1:happens when we're reviewing a candidate. This is something I actually do all the time, and I get asked this all the time as well by our students, but also just individuals who know that I'm in this space. Do you actually Google a candidate, Armini? What are your thoughts? And then I'll share mine.
Speaker 2:Yes, with exclamation marks. Yes, we Google, we go on LinkedIn to see if we can find a profile on there. If we don't find anything sometimes that's happened If we don't find anything, that doesn't look great either. To be honest, that's a little sketchy, it's true. If we do find a profile, of course, then we're going to really look into their profile on. Linkedin or whatever comes upon Google, that's usually very interesting.
Speaker 1:That's true. Yeah, so my process is I usually go to LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:I give them the benefit of the doubt before I go to the mass search of Google. If I don't actually find the profile on LinkedIn, then I'll go to Google and see what I find. I'll look at the images to see if it matches the person in the screening or wherever I found it. I'll look at the different video. I'll look at everything so you do get Googled. So Google yourself if you haven't already see what comes up. Every time I Google myself, a pilot comes up. Apparently. There's a pilot with my full name. It's pretty funny. That is amazing, I think. Now I come up.
Speaker 1:I think now my head shot does come up, I don't know, but before definitely a pilot. I'm pretty sure she still comes up before me, but I know, I come up now on.
Speaker 2:Google, Love that, love that, yeah. So career counselors, we always say make sure to Google yourself, make sure to check what's out there on your social media. There's a reason we always encourage that, and so when applying to a job and just in general, but especially when applying to a job, you want to go through your social media channels and see what's on there. That needs to be cleared out before you submit that job application.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very, very true. There's as funny as it may sound to some, like sometimes, whatever's on your social media, or comments that you've made, or videos that you've liked or shared or posted, that can come back to bite you and haunt you. So be very, very sure that you're aware of what you're putting out there, not saying monetize every move you make on social media, but just have awareness and be very conscientious, depending on the fields that you're going into and applying to. But overall, after we've reviewed candidates, whether it be the recruiter itself or the hiring manager then comes kind of like the hard part right, because you got to really review everything possible and now you have to make decisions on the status right of a candidate, whether that be we are going to interview them whether that be, we are not going to interview them.
Speaker 1:Whether it is a, maybe, it's really tricky and this stage, depending on who's on the committee or depending on what your role is, can be very intense and what that looks like if you're leading this team, if you are just somebody on the opposite side of the team, if you're the co-worker who's going to work with this person, this stage gets really tricky internally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, MJ, I know you recently had an experience with this. You want to talk a little bit about how it feels to be in that sticky situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So yes, I've recently been on a hiring committee where I've felt like I kind of had to coordinate all of it. We did have somewhat of a recruiter who was more essential in the aspects of screening which we'll talk about soon and contacting the individuals to see if they meet the qualifications, but my role was very much so like kind of navigating some of these conversations right, picking who is going to be on the committee to serve. What's my role? If candidates are internal right, what is that relationship to me? How does everybody feel about this?
Speaker 1:So a lot of the time my experience it really felt like I was walking on eggshells and as a new professional right, these are like big shoes and big things to do. This was, very honestly, like my anxiety was really really high. These last couple of weeks I'd say like the last six weeks were pretty intense with everything going on in life and then added stress of like internal candidates and who's going to be on and this role that we're hiring for is it affects a lot of individuals in our department, so it's kind of a big deal.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it's a leadership role too, so that person could potentially be our supervisor, so that's another thing to consider. But, with that said, I think you handled it very well. And so sweet we couldn't tell I'm really nervous. But all this to say that it's not easy on the hiring committee members either right. You know the candidate we know, obviously it's not easy on the candidate, and applying to jobs is an emotional journey.
Speaker 2:But to also show that behind the scenes it gets really challenging too. There is a lot of politics and offices, or in companies in general, trying to meet quotas of like some companies have like certain percentages of identity based employees that they need to hire. So yes, that's not fair, that you know. Maybe based on your identity you may or may not be moved forward, but there are quotas. There are certain things that companies might be trying to prove with that. So those can affect their politics, can affect whether you get moved forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also, a big thing about moving forward is sometimes the budget can be cut and the role, as necessary as it may seem, may disappear and the team will have to function. You know, if it's a team, if it's a solo person, if it's a whole department, we'll just have to figure it out. The budget is a huge deal and it sucks right. It sucks both for the internally and it also sets externally, because the candidate who ever applied? But you also have to think that there's more to this process than just applying and being hired and all these different things that we see on the side of being the candidate.
Speaker 2:Exactly Now on the applicants end. All you need to worry about is how well you know your job, how well you can do this job, how well you could fit in with the company culture. I would say that's what you need to worry about. Everything else is out of your control. If there is, like budget issues, political games, things like that, that companies are playing, you really don't have a lot of control over that. So my advice would be to not worry about that and put your best foot forward and you know it might sound cliche, but if it's meant to be, it'll be.
Speaker 1:That's very true. Before I had this position, I had so many interviews I think I've said this before I had so many interviews that I was exhausted about telling people who I am and why I love higher ed and counseling.
Speaker 1:Thank God, this was my last interview, for now right, Because I have no idea where life is going to take me, but oh my gosh, it is exhausting, and being a candidate is as exhausting as being on a hiring committee. But that's the harmony is absolutely right. You just have to really know who you are and remember to showcase that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So let's say MJ, I apply, I'm a candidate, I apply. Maybe you know. My resume cover letter gets reviewed, my Google search LinkedIn profile comes out clear and I am now ready, like to move on to the next step. You guys decide that I'm going to be moving on to the next step. What's that next step?
Speaker 1:Cool, so wonderful. I've always loved to hire you, armin, I don't know what position you're working for.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm glad I always have a job.
Speaker 1:Working with you is a privilege and an honor, and I would never, do anything to disrupt that.
Speaker 1:So what kind of happens here is the committee really decides what type of interview process we want to take right? So with interviews, again it depends on the role of the industry, who you're working with, what type of team department, organization, how it really functions and all this. So typically nowadays you will have two rounds of an interview and those two rounds will look very, very different. It can look like the first round is always going to be a screening. It's always going to be labeled that way, even if it may not feel that way.
Speaker 1:The reason why is because in the screening, your first interview is always to feel out the person, to see if they need the qualifications necessary to do the role. The second round is always assessing now the candidate itself and to see how they fit in the company culture, how they fit in the department, how they fit in the team. And I always say two rounds because the first round will look like that and nowadays the first round is always held virtually, like literally 95% of the first rounds are held virtually. And the second round can look different because it's not just like a traditional interview of what you would think of a one to one type a panel type of interview, but it could be a whole day, it could be a couple hours, it could be three different meetings, it can be three speed rounds. Right, it really depends on the structure of the role in the department and who they want you to meet and you have to.
Speaker 1:This is where you really understand, like, how significant this role is because it works with so many individuals. Like both you and I had to go through multiple I would say two rounds, but the second round was cut into like four different pieces and it was four different conversations with four different leaders and different things like that too. So you have to be very mindful and understand the way what your interview will look like. So it's okay to ask right. So when you get called and this is a pro tip is you know the area code of the company and organization you're applying to right Pro tip. So when you get an unknown call, you definitely want to respond and you want to be ready for either a screening interview and if you're not in the setting for that, it's okay to say this is not a good moment at what time can we schedule to call back?
Speaker 1:right, it's okay to do that. Or two, they could be calling to schedule a screening interview, and this is where you want to make sure to have like your calendar, whatever. If you're at work, right, make sure that you have the appropriate time to take off or whatever. So have you, and this is where you definitely want to assess. Okay, is this a screening interview? Is this the first round interview or what does it look like? And it's definitely it's okay to ask the person you're talking to, because it can be an executive's assistant, it can be one of us, it could be somebody like the legit hiring manager. It's okay to ask clarifying questions is my whole point, but I think I'm just rambling now.
Speaker 2:No, it's all good. Yeah, because there could be. They could already have everything all planned out. So if you can know, in advance.
Speaker 2:That would be great. So you kind of have a clear idea of what the steps are going to look like. Usually in that screening interview you can ask you know so what are the next steps or what can I expect? And that shows interest, that shows eagerness on your part too. So it's actually a win-win situation. But with that said so, keep in mind that a lot of positions besides the you know, like MJ was talking about, it's a full day. It could be multiple different types of people you're meeting. It could also involve a presentation.
Speaker 1:Oh, very common these days very common.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of positions. They're looking for public speaking skills. They want to make sure you're able to get your ideas across clearly or communicate effectively with folks. So a presentation is very common, that's very true.
Speaker 1:Did you know, armin, a fun fact about MJ I've only ever had one presentation type of interview.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:And that was for this job. Wow, I've never had to do a presentation in an interview. I've had to do presentations for jobs, but never in an interview and this was my first time ever doing one.
Speaker 1:So they're not super, super common, but they're also not extremely rare. And be prepared, because the topic it really depends on the hiring committee, right, and the type of work you're going to be doing, which leads us to what type of. So we just went over what type of interviews could be held. But while that has been decided, the next steps on our end, as the hiring managers, as the recruiters, as the, as the hiring committee, is to decide kind of what it is that we want to assess you on, right, and this is where the job description is so important, right. So, immediately when you apply to a job pro tip, keep the job description downloaded, save it on a word doc, whatever you need to do, because that's what we're doing to really develop the interview questions. That's what we're doing to really assess your role as a candidate. We are ourselves annotating each requirement and each, each quality or each ability, whatever they're called duties, responsibilities, that are listed on there, and that's how we're also assessing you as candidacy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and usually when developing interview questions, there will be some of the standard ones that are usually asked right. We've talked about interviews in a previous episode but, like how tell me about yourself strengths and weaknesses? Those kinds of questions usually come up in most interviews, but then it goes beyond, especially if you have multiple rounds.
Speaker 2:So those might be more like first round screening ground things like that.
Speaker 2:But then as you advance to later on in the interview process, maybe you're meeting with higher level leadership and their questions might be more big picture.
Speaker 2:I remember in a previous job I had my second round was with the HRISAR Dean of the department, and so I think that might have been my first time having a second round interview, so I wasn't sure what to expect. I was like I wonder what they're going to ask, because I had already done all the like counseling related questions in my first round and they ended up asking a lot more big picture questions, even things about technology. My job had nothing to do with technology but the questions were like how would technology and its advancement impact my role and things like that? So it was very, very big picture stuff and I actually really enjoyed that conversation. I remember feeling pretty good about it, but I did end up getting that job, so it all worked out. But I will say that as you advance into the next levels it could be more big picture questions related to the overall industry that you're going to be working in.
Speaker 1:That's true. When I was applying to jobs a little over a year and like I don't know, like 15 months ago, I kept getting the question of DEI. When I was entering the second or final round DEI, I mean, which is not a bad thing I'm not saying it's a bad thing but I have to also think about, like the societal climate that we were in In 15 months ago. Right, we were just coming out of the pandemic. A lot of horrible things were happening to individuals in our societies and cities, so I kept getting the question of DEI. What does that mean to me? How do I define it? How would I work through it? What does that look like in a counseling or in a divisor role, things like that? So you want to be.
Speaker 1:This is where the critical thinking skill really does come into play. And Google, like if you Google, you know, like interview prep for cell and cell type questions you have to yes, those can be commonly asked, but this is where you really want to think about who does my role? What does this position work with? What are questions that I might get asked? Or what are some challenges that I might face and that they can ask? Because, guess what, that's usually what's asked in an interview, right? So like, hey, they might give you a scenario like let's say this this this this, this this this, and that happens, what would you do? Right? Behavioral type questions. So think broadly, but also think very specific to your industry and think critically about who you're going to be meeting with and what kind of responses you want to take, because you're no longer at this point representing you and your work, but you're representing now the whole department, the center, the team, whatever your responses are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. So takeaways from this particular portion is to be aware of the broader spectrum of the role that you're applying to. So it's not just about the job you're going to do, but bigger picture of the industry and how your role impacts whatever center you're going to be working on. So keep that in mind as you're preparing for interviews. But let's say you get called in, you do your few rounds right, you do well on the screening and then you get called in for maybe a panel or you do a presentation. What are some tips that you would recommend, mj, to somebody who is kind of going through that process after that screening interview?
Speaker 1:After the screening interview.
Speaker 1:So let's say immediately you've just logged off, reflect on what just happened, right, and I don't mean to say that in a negative connotation or in like a negative way but you want to reflect on what was that experience like, what went well, and immediately write down the questions that were asked and I have always done that.
Speaker 1:Every interview I've had, every question that I can remember, I write down and I keep in a document to always refer back to when in that process again and things like that. Reflect on what went well, what were things that you maybe struggled with, if you did things that you didn't answer. And within the next day or so, you definitely want to follow up with a thank you email or letter, if you can, with who your interview was with, but let's say, if it was with three people or one person, try to send an individualized thank you letter, but do not send the same thank you letter three different times to the same person, because guess what, we also check that and check with each other if we were sent the same thing. Those are my immediate tips for right after a screening interview.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely think about, maybe write down.
Speaker 2:I always like to write down the questions, too, that were asked, just in case for a future interview, because maybe, like, let's say, in the screening ground, a lot of questions might be very similar across the same industry.
Speaker 2:So make sure to write down the questions that were asked while it's still fresh in your mind so then you could work on those and improve upon your answers for future interviews. But besides that, yeah, the thank you email. Every round that you get an interview for, you should be sending a thank you email, just because that have courtesy. I mean, there's a lot of time, right, that goes into it, and I'm just going to advocate for this too. But being on a hiring committee, we talked about the emotional side of it, how it can be challenging and draining emotionally, but it also is really time consuming, right? Imagine there's a group of people who are taking on volunteering to be on a committee to hire for your position, in addition to all the other responsibilities that they have in their work. So it can be really timely for them too, which is why the thank you email has become more and more integrated into this process than expected.
Speaker 1:Actually expected.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it stands out a lot when candidates doesn't send a thank you email. It's sometimes it can be a deciding factor because, let's say, you really really like that candidate but they didn't send a thank you email. It's like, oh well, do they really want this position? How genuinely interested are they in? So that's kind of what you should be doing. What's happening on our side is once and then keep in mind that once you're screened remember we're also screening different individuals as well, and that can range from like eight to 10, right, depending on how big the applicant pool was and what that looks like and how many people are on the committee and how many recruiters are like on this specific task and things like that, like you were saying. So what's happening on our end is, once we finish the screening and have screened everybody you know we got it all come back together whoever that is all right and sit down and see, okay, who moves forward, right, and who moves forward.
Speaker 1:If it's that, say, 10 to 12 individuals we screened, you may want to go and narrow down now to your top four or five people, right, depending on how much time you have and how much energy you want to spend on bringing individuals back. Because, going from a large photo, smallpals, really, really challenging. But this is where then you say, okay, let's bring up our rubrics right, our scoring cards, if you will, and see what happened on this end. And this is where the discussions kind of, you know, they get a little more heated, depending on what the conversations were, depending on specific things. So your responses you know we were taking notes, we were seeing what you were saying, we were picking up on different things. It's very, very important to think very critically about how you're responding in an interview, but also remember that after screening, it's okay if it's been a week or so and you haven't been called back, because there's a lot happening on our end.
Speaker 2:There is there's some tough conversations happening right.
Speaker 2:Especially if there is a candidate who's internal or there is a couple of candidates who are kind of scoring on the same level. So how do you pick between the two? Who gets to move forward? It's really hard to tell just from, like, one screening interview. It is all the things you want to tell about a person, right? Because let's say there's right, like you said, you screen date people and majority of them meet the requirements of the job.
Speaker 2:So now it's like okay, traits, personality traits, characteristics you're looking for to like the friendship between who gets to move on to the next level. So a lot of tough conversations are happening on the applicants end. I want you all to know that usually, at least, the right way that it's done is there's a numerical break, right? So people, will you know, take notes. You see, probably in your interviews the interviewer maybe is like taking notes, so they might be writing down the answers that you're providing and then after that, based on the answer, they will score some kind of numerical rubric one to five, one to 10, whatever it is that they're using so that the numbers at the end will help with the decision making process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes you can feel out like a decision and other times you have to. You have to just refer to numbers, and that's why it's very important to have a numerical system and play when you're doing this, because, if anything, the numbers speak for themselves in that case. But when these conversations are happening and deciding who gets to come back, like there's a lot of different things that are happening, and I want to remind candidates like, remember, like we are also, as much as we want to bring you on board, we also have lives going on. Right. We have like things happen. People go on vacation. I went on vacation during a huge process, so like that took about five days out of the recruiting process. People the candidate themselves may be on vacation and we can't. We can't bring them for a different round or they can't get a. You can't get a hold of them. So there are different things happening on our side too with bringing people on.
Speaker 1:But the important part here is, when we're having these tough conversations, it's on our end. It's really how you approach the situation, and I mean this because within every job, there's always bureaucracy and politics and you know, like just things that we wish didn't exist, but they do. And on the hiring committee it adds a different level of stress and it adds a different level of thinking and you have to be very cautious right, and this is where the the awareness on your team. If you are serving on a hiring committee, be sure you have you know, buy in from the team and the department or the center or whatever, and you understand where everybody is and everybody's on the same page in terms of what we're looking for and what kind of questions are we asking and what are we assessing for, because questions don't just they're not.
Speaker 1:Well, it depends If it's done by a recruiter. Questions are kind of given to you right, like you can ask these questions and then, once you know if you come on for a second round or a final round, or if you come in person or on Zoom or whatever you meet with the director, those questions are usually created by the person you are interviewing with or the team, and those are really specific towards the industry and things like that. But long story short, these conversations are difficult. Yeah, just remember lots happening on this side.
Speaker 2:There is lots happening and when you were talking about, like making sure you know everybody's on the same page about what we're looking for, that becomes challenging too, because it's like yes, there is a job description, everybody reads the job description, everyone on the team knows you know what is expected of this role.
Speaker 2:However, everyone has a different perspective on you know what kind of characteristics might be appropriate for someone in that role, especially if it's someone who's going to be doing the same like level of work or a leadership role to that team, then there's a lot of different like emotions that come into play, because people, if it let's say there's a team of seven people and then you're going to be the eight percent doing the same type of work, they want to make sure I mean those seven people are already doing the job differently, so they're going to have different perspectives on what it is you need to be able to get the job done successfully If you're going to be supervising that team. Obviously everyone has a different perspective on like what a good leader is like. So that's that's a whole other issue as well. So those conversations are challenging to get everyone on board to agree with like what it is that they're wanting from this person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of competing priorities and then it depends also like in what climate you're walking into right. Like if you're walking into a challenging situation where what we're like whoever is looking for a certain thing, but let's say, the hiring committee is searching for a certain thing, but the team wants something different, those are really rough and you have to I think this is where my counseling skills came most in handy was like navigating what that looks like in a converse, in like a civil conversation and you know, like this is where it's like if you're a team player, it's like you have to really show that right. And I took I really hope everybody saw that I really tried my hardest and making sure that this you know like this was done fairly and everybody had an equal say.
Speaker 1:So being on a hiring committee it doesn't just mean you have all the power to decide whatever you want and you get to do whatever you want and hire whoever you want. There's a lot of different factors that go into it, are very tedious and annoying, but you know what? It's also a really great experience to grow as a professional. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that happens on Harry.
Speaker 2:There is, and I would encourage anyone out there listening if you are ever in a position where you can volunteer to be on a committee, I would definitely encourage that, because you get to see now, then the whole cycle, what happens behind the scenes, and that might change your performance as a candidate in the future. Yeah, for sure, I would definitely encourage that. So, mj, let's say someone goes through all this process. They've done multiple rounds of interviews, they sent their thank you emails, they're doing everything they're supposed to do. How quickly and I touched on this a little bit, but how quickly, would you say, a candidate can be determined?
Speaker 1:This is a hard question. It's a frequent question, but it's a hard one to answer because I think it depends, and I know, I know I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:That's not a yes, or?
Speaker 1:no response. But it truly does depend, because it depends on how fast you want this person and it depends if this is the right person. It depends if you have time and budget to conduct another search, right, like there's so many different things that on our end we're asking ourselves we're on the candidates end it's. You know, like you may be thinking it's been a week, I haven't heard back. It's been two weeks, I haven't heard back. It's been four weeks and I haven't heard back. Trust me, mj knows exactly how that feels, because that was me a good while ago. How quickly does a candidate get determined?
Speaker 1:Well, it depends on how many times the candidate has gone through different rounds and you have to sit down with everybody and make decisions and everybody has a different schedule, everybody has a different part on the role on a team, so it can take some time for even like the hiring committee themselves or the recruiter, to sit down and talk about this. But then there's the step of references, right, and this is when you should be, you know, getting contacted or being told like hey, we're, you know, like, next steps are references and your references, depending on how close you are with them, right, they may contact you or you may want to let them know like you're.
Speaker 1:you know like somebody is going to reach out to you about my role and this may speed up the process, right, depending on your references and things like that. So you answered the question because I know I'm beating around the bush. I would say anywhere from two to six weeks and that's a hard truth to swallow, but that is the truth. I was hired and everything happened for me within two weeks. I think less than a week if I'm being absolutely honest.
Speaker 2:Two.
Speaker 1:I had my final yeah, two weeks for me when I know for others it's taken two months, four months.
Speaker 2:It depends. Yeah, I'm trying to remember. I remember applying to this job in October and I started December 1st.
Speaker 1:So, like before this job for me, it took like six weeks and then before that it took like a couple of weeks as well. So this, I think this is the fastest I've ever been hired. But it also depends right, like what is, what is your leverage into the organization? And you guys needed someone and you guys were all, thank God, in agreement with me, so that made the things easier to do, because if you're in disagreement with the candidate that the committee selected or that the team, that's a hard conversation to have and that's where you have to think about like, well, is this the right person for the role? And all of these different questions that the candidates don't really see.
Speaker 1:And that's why Armin is if, if, encouraging you, if, if you have never served and you have the opportunity to do it, because it's so much growing that happens as a professional and even in your own self, you rarely reflect on what is the process like for you and what does it look like and how did? How did I learn from this too. But two to six weeks, I would say, is now the average. I think it's even more now because of the way the world is, but on average, two to six weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a good timeframe to kind of just it's a broad enough spectrum where people can kind of expect.
Speaker 2:So just know that you know it's okay. If you haven't heard back, it's okay to follow up. It's encouraged. We do encourage you to follow up about two weeks or so after you know that that final round of interviews. You've sent your thank you email. You haven't heard back. It's been two weeks. It's okay to follow up. It shows the interest and eagerness. I've had situations where I followed up twice and so that they will eventually get back to you after they've made their decision. But you following up multiple times is not not it's not going to reflect badly on you.
Speaker 1:That's true as long as as long as you're not doing like every three days, right? If you're, you have to really spread it out and show that you demonstrate interest and ensure that every time you follow up it's not the same message. It looks different, because then that shows lack of energy and things like that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So overall, take takeaways from this episode for those of you listening. You learned a little bit about the hiring committee or process, what happens on the behind the scenes after you apply to a job Takeaways for you as a candidate. We talked about following up, so something that might help is knowing the area code of the company, because you'll be getting phone calls from them maybe multiple times as you progress through different rounds of interviews. So make sure to know the area code of the company, because when you get that phone call, especially that first round, you want to know. You know at least see the area code so you're prepared for the type of conversation you're going to have when you answer that phone call, or don't answer it if you're in a space where you're not going to be able to be professional.
Speaker 1:True, I also have something to add here and I'm throwing a little bit of a curveball Check your spam folder. Check your spam folder because guess what, when they email you back, your email or server whatever may not recognize that and may throw it into spam. So when you are applying to jobs, actively check your spam, because their email can slip into there and you may never see it and you don't want that to be a reason why it costs you an opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I even heard about somebody not seeing a LinkedIn message during the job hiring process. So just check your LinkedIn, you know, just be aware, check everything, just in case. But yeah, there was a situation with LinkedIn before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make sure your voicemail is set up. To Armini's point about the area code, I know we all text and all these different things. Voicemail make sure it's set up and it's a professional voice message and that they hear, if you're not able to answer the phone, your name, they'll call them back, whatever. So have you. I've heard a lot of silly ones just from my own friends and family where it's like yo yo, yo.
Speaker 1:I'll get back to you whenever I can and when we hear that, as hiring managers or on a committee, it's not the best thing to really come for. It's authentic. That is very true. If you're thinking you're like MJ wait, you told me to be authentic, it is authentic, but you want to be mindful of your brand as you're applying to jobs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had a student that we worked with the two of us who was expecting an email but ended up getting a phone call, never knew it was the job they applied to and you know, they were just checking their email and they thought they didn't get a response, but they later found out that they got two or three phone calls from that job. Yeah, so just check everything, be mindful. Check your mailbox.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, be mindful of your area code, follow up at every couple of weeks as needed, and then remember that the committee and recruiter are also managing multiple aspects of the hiring process, as we talked about today. So be patient with them as well. As you're following up, make sure the message is really kind and the tone is really understanding in the kind of message that you're sending in your follow-ups. What other takeaways are there? I'm James.
Speaker 1:You definitely want to be prepared for multiple types of interviews, right, so don't walk in thinking you know what's gonna happen, because you may not. That's why, like I said before, it's okay to ask what type of interview, what type of format, should be the question. What type of interview format will this be, should be your question to the hiring manager or the person you're speaking to.
Speaker 1:We mentioned this as well, armin, I mentioned this in the beginning following up, right, sending a thank you email letter after every round, after every round, screening, final round, every meeting you've had with somebody. Get their contact information, send them a thank you email and send them a different thank you email. Change it, don't send the same one eight times. It is definitely okay To ask where you are in the process, right? A lot of the time, as candidates, we may feel like we don't have the power in this conversation, but guess what you know. That famous saying is you feel like you're, they're interviewing you, but guess what? You're also interviewing them. This is where that comes into play. It's okay to ask as many questions as you want, right, as long as they're appropriate, and one of the most appropriate questions is to ask when are you in the?
Speaker 1:interview process, not where is the hiring committee, but where are you as a candidate and in case, or let's say, unfortunately, you're not the best fit for this role or they decide to not move forward with you? It's also perfectly okay to ask for feedback. Right, pro tip? Actually asking for feedback is one of the top strengths of a leader. Did you know that?
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:now, I don't think I knew that, yeah, asking for feedback is one of the top strengths and it actually increases your ability to become a leader and have show leadership qualities. I was reading that somewhere, I don't necessarily remember where, but wherever I'm coding that from, I am Thinking about you wherever. But asking for feedback is huge Because guess what you get to learn right from and not we're not calling it your mistakes, but the things in which, where you can improve right. And lastly, check your social media, google yourself, see what things you need to clean up, see what comes up, because we are also Googling you and we're looking you up on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:Excellent, so hopefully this episode has been beneficial to those who are applying to jobs at any given time. Hopefully you got some insight on what happens behind the scenes and some pro tips and takeaways From this episode. Feel free to comment any questions you might have or reach out to career Confidence or career rise. If you need any individualized support or any specific question, that's right.