What if you could unlock the secrets to successfully applying to graduate school? Get ready as we take you through our journey and share experiences navigating the world of higher education. From considering reasons for attending graduate school to mastering the application process, we share our trials, tribulations, and victories to guide your decision-making process.
We understand that graduate school isn't just about further education, it's about aligning your career goals with the right program. In this episode, we discuss the importance of identifying your WHY for pursuing a graduate program and provide resources on how to research programs that fit your needs. We also shed light on the differences between master's and doctoral programs along with application process, timelines, and materials.
The application process to graduate school can seem daunting, but fear not! We've got the inside scoop on everything from the materials you'll need to the number of applications to send out. Also, we highlight the importance of interviews as part of your admission process, offering our own personal experiences and guidance on how to navigate varying formats. Join us on this informative exploration into the realities of applying to graduate school.
Websites for Graduate School Research
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.mjcareerconfidence.com
Follow Us on IG!
Follow Us on LinkedIn:
What if you could unlock the secrets to successfully applying to graduate school? Get ready as we take you through our journey and share experiences navigating the world of higher education. From considering reasons for attending graduate school to mastering the application process, we share our trials, tribulations, and victories to guide your decision-making process.
We understand that graduate school isn't just about further education, it's about aligning your career goals with the right program. In this episode, we discuss the importance of identifying your WHY for pursuing a graduate program and provide resources on how to research programs that fit your needs. We also shed light on the differences between master's and doctoral programs along with application process, timelines, and materials.
The application process to graduate school can seem daunting, but fear not! We've got the inside scoop on everything from the materials you'll need to the number of applications to send out. Also, we highlight the importance of interviews as part of your admission process, offering our own personal experiences and guidance on how to navigate varying formats. Join us on this informative exploration into the realities of applying to graduate school.
Websites for Graduate School Research
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.mjcareerconfidence.com
Follow Us on IG!
Follow Us on LinkedIn:
Alright, welcome back everyone to Coffee and Career Hour.
Speaker 2:Welcome everybody. We are so excited to be here with you today. Sorry if you hear me opening my water bottle. I just forgot to prepare that before we started recording.
Speaker 1:That's okay, you were busy drinking coffee.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are so excited to be here with you today on your morning drive to work or as you're doing chores, or as you're preparing for whatever life has next for you in terms of career. But, armin, they tell me, what are we chatting about today?
Speaker 1:We are too. You're so dramatic. We are talking about graduate school today. Ah, that wrong roll, I know.
Speaker 2:That brings back so many amazing memories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like when you were applying to grad school or like when you were in it.
Speaker 2:Everything you know. A student told me this week because I said that to them. I said I had the most amazing experience to grad school and I wish I could do it again. Mj has only a master's degree. I have a master's in counseling psychology. And the student said to me I've never heard somebody say they want to go and do grad school again. But that was my experience.
Speaker 1:I absolutely loved every moment of it, that's amazing, even though I was drinking pandemic, yeah, also, you did most of it virtually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I made the most of it virtually. I will tell you. I was a busy bee in her little room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I had a pretty good experience in grad school too. It was a very intensive program, also a master's in counseling, with the focus on college student affairs and career, and I really enjoyed it. I was very intensive for two years, including summers, and it was cohort based, so we were a small cohort. So there's a lot that happens when you're in a cohort based program because you're all going through it together. So it was an overall, a very positive experience for me as well, which is why I think both of us are really excited to talk about graduate school today.
Speaker 2:I always get excited when students or clients come to talk to us about grad school because it's a new chapter in your life that's very different from any education you have experienced. It's definitely different in the sense of the program you're talking about, it being cohort based, it being intense, there's different manners, but it's also like expensive, different, where it's like a cost of an arm and a leg, which is very scary and we're going to talk about as well. But grad school is really a special time, I think, for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's just me because I had such an amazing experience, but it's truly a time where you get to focus on what it is that you want to do, career wise right. You go into grad school for the most part because individuals have different programs for different I mean individual degrees, for different reasons. But for the majority of us, we go to grad school to specialize in a certain area and learn more about a specific topic, to then do that as a career, as a job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, mj, when thinking about when you were applying to graduate school thinking about graduate school, right, you talked about like it being something that is related to your long-term career goals Tell me a little bit about what are some things that you kind of. What is one thing you have to think about when you're in that process?
Speaker 2:Okay. So I will tell you that as an undergrad, I didn't know I wanted to go to grad school, and I will tell you that I didn't even know what grad school was right. I've mentioned to you all before in Armininos because they literally say this like every second it's a first gen undergrad.
Speaker 2:I'm the only one in my family who's come this far. And I say that with so much pride, but I also say that with so much humility because it taught me a lot and I had to grow and ask uncomfortable questions and be in spaces that I had to question whether or not I belonged. So grad school I didn't even know what it was. I wasn't until I was a junior in undergrad when my professor was like, okay, let's explore the different careers in psychology, because that was my major, I'm a psych major to die for. And then I had to learn about grad school and I was like, oh, I can't just be a counselor after.
Speaker 1:I can't be a college counselor after my bachelor's degree.
Speaker 2:Oh I need to go get this other degree that required more training, and like these different questions that I was internally coming to realize myself, but also out loud, somebody was saying it right, and then I had to act. I remember very vividly having to act like I knew what was happening and I knew what grad school was, and being so embarrassed because I didn't know what any of that was. But I knew that I had a why, right, I knew I had a why to why I wanted to continue to go to school, even if I didn't solidify yet well, my career path was going to be which has career counselors. It's perfectly fine if you don't have your career path solidified, but one thing you really have to think about is that why, why are you attending grad school? Why do you want to pursue grad school?
Speaker 2:In a non no-transcript, negative way where we're interrogating you right Like why do you want to go to grad school? More like, what is your purpose and intention in pursuing this program? Is it to further career opportunities in the future? Is it to specialize in a certain field, getting a license Right? A lot of master's degree comes with license and certification. Is it to fulfill a requirement in your current job so you can move up for a promotion. And solidifying and identifying that why supports and guides your process and makes it so much more seamless for everything to come after.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that one thing we hear a lot from our clients and students is that they want to go to graduate school because they're not sure what to do after undergrad.
Speaker 2:That was partly me. Me too.
Speaker 1:It breaks our hearts now as career counselors but actually that was both of us. I knew I loved my major psychology but I did not know what I wanted to do after that. And so for me again, I had never, as a first-gen, I had not thought about grad school when I first entered college and I just knew I liked my major. I just I didn't have a plan for what was going to come after that. So when the time came that I had to start thinking about post college, that's when I decided to go to graduate school. But now I know that it was really because of a safety net that I was comfortable being in school and it was because I didn't know what I was going to do after I graduated.
Speaker 1:But as a career counselor we definitely that breaks our heart and we try to discourage that or we work with our clients to help them realize that that going to graduate school should be a little bit more intentional. I mean, for the both of us it worked out because we did end up picking career paths, graduate programs that really were aligned with our values. But had it not been like that and we ended up in grad programs that weren't aligned with our values, we would not be happy in the work that we're doing, and you know it goes back to the whole career development process. So that is why, as career counselors, we really want to encourage everyone to think about. If you are thinking about graduate school, what is your intention? What is your?
Speaker 2:why? Yeah, totally. I couldn't have said it better myself. I do want to acknowledge as well that grad school isn't always the answer right, Furthering your edge. So obviously we're in education, we're in academia, we are all for you developing yourself academically and educationally, but that doesn't always mean like getting the next promotion or climbing up in the leadership world doesn't always mean going to graduate school or getting a different degree.
Speaker 2:It could mean strengthening your skill set in an area. It could mean maybe potentially doing a different role to gain a different experience and broaden your horizon. It could also mean doing like a short term thing, right, grad school and to some people, short term because it's less than four years or less than five years, but it could be like a certificate program where that's like six months or three months or it's a few weeks in training. So we want to remind you all as well that grad school isn't doesn't always have to be the answer for you climbing or pivoting in your career in some type of way. There are other means of developing yourself educationally and academically to be prepared for what you want to do.
Speaker 2:So Arm and I went to grad school because we want to be counselors right, even though we may have not fully solidified that at the moment. And that's how we use our degrees and what we do. Right, we're both counselors, but sometimes you can get a master's degree and doesn't always have to relate to what you do as well. It depends on. Everybody's situation is very different, so we do want to acknowledge that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and with that there are many different types of graduate programs. Exactly, they're countless. I mean, we could go on and on about this for hours, but they're countless types of graduate programs, so we'll kind of break it down for our audience, some of the main categories. So, if any of you out there are thinking about types of grad programs, should I apply to a master's? Should I apply to a doctorate? What are the differences? That is, one of the questions we get often from students is what's the difference between a master's and a doctorate? So let's break it down for our audience.
Speaker 2:MJ yeah, so a master's degree or master's program and grad grad schools it's called grad school, but typically we refer to as a graduate program right Is a program that you complete. So master's program, length wise, can be anywhere from a year, and we've also seen some that are a little less than years, about 11 months to up to three years, and it's an a wide variety of different topics. So we can think of public affairs, we can think of public health, we can think of counseling like us we can. Education is another one student. I'm only mentioning education because that's what I'm well versed in. The student affairs there's also health ones, there's ones in history and English, stem, physics, math, biology literally anything.
Speaker 2:It's very. It's as broad as the major you choose in college maybe a little more narrow, but it's still very broad. So again, time wise, it's one, two, three years. It can be both a theoretical type of program where we're thinking about theory right?
Speaker 2:Very much so, and we're thinking about larger and broader concepts in the field of what you're setting, or an applied program where you're applying theory and it's more of an experimental type of program, and you can think of that more in the STEM related fields. Armin and I learned a lot of theory, but it's also applied, because we applied the theory to our practice. So very much so depends on your field.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I will say that you'll see. There are masters of arts and masters of science programs. Yes, and that's where you can tell whether it's more theoretical or applied, because masters of arts programs tend to be more theory based, more big picture, and masters of science means you're learning a particular skill set that is going to be applied after you graduate. So some people gravitate more towards one or the other. So, depending on what kind of learning environment you prefer and what your purpose is for going to graduate school, you can choose accordingly, based on MA versus MS.
Speaker 2:And I know that some programs so, for example, in the field, in the field of, honestly, my, the really any field sometimes there is the same programs, the same field and it's an MA degree at one school and it's a MS degree at a different school. What we encourage you to do is look at the course list. At the course list you're going to identify what are the differences there that make it an MS versus an MA. So, for example, my degree is a Master of Science in Counseling Psychology. There are different institutions that offered a Master of Arts in Counseling Psychology, or in Psychology or in Counseling, and the courses were very different. So my tip is to look at the programs and look at the different courses that they offer, because that will be a big distinction for you and you get to decide what that means.
Speaker 1:Perfect. And one thing to note about Master's programs is that usually upon completion, or in order to complete your program after you do your courses, there is some kind of conclusion that you have to do, whether it's a thesis, a comprehensive exam, a capstone course or a project that you do and submit to kind of demonstrate the knowledge that you've gained in that program. Every program runs differently. Some programs give you an option you can choose between an exam or a thesis. Some programs really embedded into the capstone course so you don't even realize that you're doing a separate comprehensive project because it's embedded into the course. My program we did an electronic project throughout our entire final year, so it was building up to that final project, which I still have the disk for. It was saved on a disk after we submitted it but it has everything we've learned, all of the papers we've written. It's almost equivalent to a thesis in terms of the level of writing and the amount of writing, but it was framed differently than how a thesis would be.
Speaker 2:I love that and I embarrassingly say I did not have to do any one of these things for my master's program, but I think it's because my program and the way I completed it looks very different. So Armin is talking about legit. Of course I wrote papers and I did all this research and things like that. But I think and I may have not even noticed it but mine was probably more of a capstone course where I actually now that I'm thinking about it for one of my electives I opted to be a student's success coordinator, student success counselor, something like that. I ended with a C, but I think that counted as my capstone project now that I'm thinking about it, because I worked with the special population which was nursing students and I had to come up with, I had to present where I started with my group of students and where I ended.
Speaker 1:Wow hold on. That sounds like a capstone or a final project Now that I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 2:okay, so just kidding, I take that back.
Speaker 1:So some programs are pretty discreet about it to avoid, like, giving students that anxiety of oh my gosh. I have this final culmination activity that I need to do to prove my knowledge, so it sounds like your program kind of made it seamless, which is great. I know ours was like leading up to the we call it an Eport, Eport portfolio. There was so much anxiety amongst all of us what is this big Eport project?
Speaker 2:But once we got into it.
Speaker 1:It wasn't as bad as we thought. But yes, so programs run differently. You will have some kind of culmination project at the end, but that is how master's programs usually run. Moving on to doctoral programs, let's tell our audience a little bit about the differences, because I know students will often wonder, like, okay, what's more beneficial for me? They might go directly into a doctoral program. And first of all, I want to start by saying, yes, you can go directly from your bachelor's to a doctoral program. However, most people traditionally will go from bachelor's to master's and then doctoral. So doctoral tends to be the highest degree that you can earn in the US and any given subject.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and you definitely can go from undergrad, bachelor's degree to a doctoral program, and we're going to break down the different types of programs there are. But this is where we're going to revert back to what we're saying in the beginning and identifying your why. It's also identifying your what right so like what is the whole reason why you want to attend this program, your why and your why is why you want to pursue it. Is your, your what is like, what are you going to do with this right? And you have to distinguish what that looks like. And this is where your career goals come into play and we have that lovely conversation about what that looks like. But doctoral program so the most, the most common one you'll hear about is a PhD.
Speaker 2:You may argue with me and say well, my doctor, like my physical doctor, my medical doctor is a doctor, but the most common doctoral is a PhD, a philosophy, a philosophy in doctorate, where it's in any subject just like a master's degree and there could be coming more and more broad and it's traditionally a five to year, a five to six year track. It's research and academic base. So expect to be doing a lot of research and a lot of you're going to be in the fields of academia for a long time and it can be partially funded, fully funded. You may need to seek out your own funding. It may be funded by an advisor or faculty member there.
Speaker 2:It very much so depends on the program, the institution and how it's run, which is why a lot of times state schools or state universities right. So, for example, here in California we have universities of California, and California state universities are extremely competitive because a large amount of students are applying to a smaller applicant pool or candidacy or cohort whatever you want to call it of these programs because the funding is very limited. So funding is a tricky conversation to have and it really depends, which is why you want to definitely highly do your research in this. For doctoral programs, length wise, I said five to six years. The first two years are really composed of coursework.
Speaker 2:So you're going to be taking classes if you have a master's degree beforehand or if you don't. The courses may vary right, depending on what can transfer over if it's a completely different subject, and your graduate programs or degrees don't always have to align with what your undergrad is. That's also very important thing to do, to note. So if you got your undergrad degree in biology, you can totally complete a master of science and engineering or in chemistry or in something else.
Speaker 1:I'm only relating.
Speaker 2:STEM. I don't know why it's all in thing popping up in my brain, but doctoral and any other graduate degree can be really any any other field. So the first two years are coursework. Next two to three years are all about your dissertation. You're doing, you're running your own study. You are doing a lot of research. You're passing a lot of different I know they're like verbal exams and written exams to stay on track.
Speaker 2:Your dissertation is changing. You're picking your idea, you're proposing it, you're making sure it's approved. You're doing all of these different pieces and parts for this huge project which is your dissertation and your dissertation defense. Within there you have to take comprehensive exams within the whole process right, comprehensive exams. There's a dissertation proposal defense that you also have to do to to defend the proposal of your dissertation, so of your study, and you have to write and finalize your dissertation, which comes with a lot of research, and then defend it. And then you become a doctor, right, once you pass and you choose a committee and all these other things. That was a mouthful and that is a small, brief summary of what happens in a PhD program.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean clearly, and that is why it's the highest degree you can earn in the US because there's a lot of learning and a lot of studying.
Speaker 1:That happens, but I do want to break down a little bit what a dissertation is for anyone out there who maybe isn't familiar. So essentially it is a project. You pick a topic that you want to further study and you actually have to do your research, your own research, conduct a study on it and with that comes finding the study participants, figuring out your study methods. Of course, you learn how to do all these things before you get to that point, but you are expected to conduct a study and find results and then write an entire paper about what you found on the topic of your choice. So that's why it takes about two to three years to work on your dissertation and then at the end you have to defend itself, present it and essentially convince your audience as to what you've found in your dissertation study.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an intense process that we made sound easier said than done, but it's definitely again, it's a whole program all about research in academia. But again, that's one of the many doctorates we have. There are other ones like an MD, which is a medical doctorate degree, and a PSIDY, which is a doctorate in psychology as well. Arminae, for the sake of time, we're only going to cover PhD the way we did, but we encourage you, if you're very, very curious about what an MD and a PSIDY is, do some research and if you have more questions, you can always reach out to us as well. Tell us about some other grad programs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's also EDD, which is doctorate of education, and then there is MBA, master's in Business Administration. That's more so a pre-professional program. So it is equivalent almost to a doctorate level in terms of the kind of prestige that that degree has, even though it's a master's in business administration. And then there is JD program, which is your law degree, and then there are many different ones within the health field. So medical pre-professional programs like dental programs, things like that.
Speaker 1:So these pre-professional programs tend to be a little bit more applied and very niche skill sets that you're learning. They might not always be research-based, right, like a master's of business administration isn't going to be as research-heavy as a PhD program. But that is why you have to know your intention as to why you're going to graduate school. If you want to go into academia or you want to go into research within the government, like working on policies in the government or working with think tanks, those kinds of places a PhD would be very appropriate because you understand research and you understand how to work with data. But if you want to go into practical work, then like a pre-professional program like MBA or JD or Health or any of the health ones, can be more beneficial. So kind of working a little bit backwards, I would say, is thinking about your long-term goal. If you see yourself doing more academic research related work or you see yourself doing more practical work, we'll inform what kind of graduate program you want to do.
Speaker 2:And I will say and this is not a side we see often but let's say, you go into a grad program, no matter which one it is, and you end up, you know, a couple months in the program, maybe a year, and you're like, actually this is not what I want to do. We also see that as well, and no one's going to blame you. If you want to leave, you definitely can, but there is also the financial responsibility of what that looks like. So switching schools is a possibility. Again, you have to reapply, you have to do a whole process which we're going to talk about. But in the case that you don't enjoy what you're doing or you thought this was not what it is, there may be a possibility, depending on what is in the code of conduct right on how you can exit the program and what that looks like.
Speaker 2:But we also want to bring awareness to that, because I get a lot of questions for students like how do I know this is a program for me, which is why we're going to heavily talk about the application process and what that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, speaking of the application process when it comes to graduate school and this is kind of general right, I mean, every program might have its own nuances, which we would. If you were in that process, you would really have to research the program you're applying to to see what specific things they're looking for that you need in that process.
Speaker 1:But overall any kind of graduate program you're applying to, you typically apply one year in advance. So generally speaking that's going to be around fall, October, November, timeline of the previous year, and then you would start the following year in the fall. Generally that's how they sound. Graduate programs actually do spring admission so you could start in January but then their timeline, application timeline would be sooner for that spring admission. But most programs like the traditional programs, for example, law school specifically, and most graduate, like a master's programs that I've seen, tend to start in the fall and you apply the year beforehand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, armin is absolutely right. It depends all about the program. Some have rolling based admissions right where they kind of accept applications year round. For example, that was my program. We accept applications year round and you start in the summer, depending on where you are right. Mj was a. I got admitted in the spring so I started in the spring, but if I would have been in the fall I would have started in the summer actually.
Speaker 2:I could have started taking classes in the summer. So it very much so depends on the program and what it looks like and also the institution, because the institution has a lot to do with it. If you go to a private school versus if you go to a public school, you go to a state school. It very, very, very much so depends. But yeah, application, you want to apply within one year and guess what? You have a whole ton of stuff to prepare because application is a long process and it's a lot of different sections.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like we say about applying to jobs, we always say applying to jobs is a full-time job on its own. The same really applies for applying to graduate school. That is a full-time job on its own. So if we're thinking like you're applying one year before you're gonna start approximately. You're starting your application process another year before that deadline.
Speaker 1:So really it's about like a two-year process, from starting your application materials all the way to submitting them and then waiting to be admitted and then actually starting the program. It's a good two years on average. So think about that in terms of something to think about. If you are considering graduate school, what does your timeline look like and what does your lifestyle look like? Because this is a time-consuming process, but you start about a year before to really prepare for the application materials and we'll get into materials in a second. But we wanted to talk a little bit about researching how to research graduate programs and identify schools. So, mj, tell us a couple of the go-to websites that we recommend for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, our top three here on Coffee and Career Hour are gogradorg, right, g-o-g-r-a-dorg, and we'll put all of this in the show notes so you have access to it. But this is a website where you can research various graduate programs, no matter if it's a master's degree or a doctorate degree. See the schools and it'll give you brief information where it allows you to go to the school's website and look for more information on the program and the requirements and other specifics as well. Another research platform that we use for our students and clients is Best Colleges. They actually have a ton of information just in general. But Best Colleges for grad school.
Speaker 2:You'll be able to see the different types of grad schools that they have, and they sometimes have articles explaining, like, what the differences are, what is grad school, all these different things, so you can also read that on there. But they also have a search section and you want to do that as well. I really enjoy this one because it's easy to navigate and our students really enjoy it as well. And then Onet. Onet Online has a platform as well. Armin, do you remember the specific name of Onet's grad school search?
Speaker 1:Yes, essentially it's called Find Training when you're looking at a specific occupation. So Onet is actually a broader website, not just for graduate school but it is for, like, industry search. So if you're interested in any kind of occupation let's say you want to become a physician's assistant and you want to learn more about what that is you go onto Onet, you find physician assistant, you read all about it and then on that page, for that particular occupation, there will be a link that says Find Training or Find Credential Programs, and then you can filter by state, you could filter by a zip code even and things like that. But once you filter, it will actually show you all schools public, private, like CSU do you see any of them? And what kind of degree programs they offer for this particular occupation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I have a question for you, Armin.
Speaker 2:Yes, when I'm researching for grad school, how many am I supposed to apply to?
Speaker 1:Oh yes, what a common question. I get that every single day. So I always say there is no magic number. However, because graduate school applications are pretty intense and there's quite a lot of thinking that goes into it and a lot of different materials and fees that you pay, I do recommend keeping it to a manageable number and so if I were to give a number, I would say somewhere around six to seven applications. It could be a couple more, it could be a couple less, but I do recommend my clients to always think about what are your like top schools, top programs, your ideal, like your reach schools? Right, and usually students have about two to three reach schools that they normally come in with. So if you have about three ideal programs and then we can find maybe another three backup programs, then that way you have a good balance and we're within a very manageable range of applications that you can get done within a timely period.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I ask because that's also a question I get all the time and I know everybody's numbers very different too. When Arminis is manageable, you have to also think about the fees and what that looks like and how many schools you want to apply to. It's a similar process to undergrad, where the materials and like the process, like the logistical process, is the same, but the amount of schools you're applying to is very different, right?
Speaker 2:Maybe as an undergrad you apply to 10 or more whereas this is like probably less than 10 schools that you're applying to.
Speaker 1:And something different with undergrad was that if you were applying to a particular system, like the.
Speaker 1:UC system. You would just select all the UC schools in one application, and the same goes for CSU systems. Yeah, the common app. Yeah, it's the common app. Grad schools don't have a common app. You apply to the individual program. If you're applying to two different graduate programs at the same university, they could be completely different processes because each graduate program is run by a different department and so you're essentially applying to the department. You might still you will likely still do like a university application, but then you're getting, you're also doing a department application, which could vary by department.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which also reminds me there are also dual graduate programs. This is more common with master's degrees. You could do like a dual master degree, right? So, for example, I know at UCLA where we work, they have a dual master degree in like MBA and law. That's one example for you. But, like Armin I was talking about, if you're applying to two different schools, you have to check, like each program, each requirement, what are they looking for? Does it differ from other ones? Because we always also get the questions of can I just use the same materials for every grad school? No, you cannot, because every application looks very different. So, armin, what are these materials? How do I prepare?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so some common materials that most graduate schools are probably going to require of you include a resume or a CV, and so we've talked a lot about resumes on the podcast.
Speaker 1:We each have resume resources on our own websites. Please make sure to check those out, or you could work with us one on one for resume or CV development. Just to put it out there, cv is a curriculum vitae, which is a form of a resume, but it's usually longer resumes. We always recommend keeping it to one page, but a CV can be longer than one page typically two to three pages and they are more targeted towards academia or research. So the kinds of content you put on a CV could also include scholarships, academic coursework projects, fellowships, different things like that that you might have done. That's more academic related. That doesn't necessarily always go on a resume, but it is a form of a resume.
Speaker 1:So CV or a resume would be one of the materials that most graduate schools are going to ask for. The other one is a personal statement or a statement of purpose, or both. Some programs will ask for both. The difference between the two a personal statement tends to be more about your story as an individual and you would still target it towards the program. You would still talk about, like, why you are interested in that program in a personal statement, but the bulk of that statement is your story and what made you who you are today and and got you to this point of applying to this graduate program. Usually you talk about challenges you've overcame formative events that have happened in your life as a child. People talk about family. People talk about problems immigrating to the US or family problems, different things like that. The sum of the stories I've read in personal statements with my students. I mean I've got an emotional reading, those I've got an inspired reading, those going from like being homeless to now applying to a prestigious graduate program. So I got chills, just talking about it.
Speaker 1:So personal statements are very much your story and then a statement of purpose is a little bit more focused on the actual purpose while you're applying to this program. So you could still embed parts of your story in there, but it's not going to be as focused on your story and some programs will ask for both or give you the option of either or.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I will add in there too that you definitely want to sprinkle a little bit of like what you're going to do with this program and degree after into both statements of purpose. Actually, I always tend to think of it like that. A personal statement, without sounding very silly, is like your personal story, just like Armine said. Right it's how have you gotten to this point and how has your experiences equipped you for this program, with a little bit of sprinkle of career aspiration at the end right, statements of purpose is your purpose for pursuing this program? What is the whole purpose behind what you're going to do with it currently, but also beyond, and how it's going to add to it?
Speaker 2:Again that's sprinkle of career aspiration as well. And these again, they're common for grad programs, but some institutions and programs may have different prompts, so you can have one personal statement or statement of purpose. That's kind of general. But then guess what? The six schools you're applying to have six different prompts, and the personal statement has four different questions that are different from the other application and you have to find tweaks and you have to differentiate each one.
Speaker 2:We also will tell you that you want to make sure that these are tailored right To the program, the school, the faculty. You want to make sure that they see your genuine enthusiasm and interest in the program, right, you don't want it to just be bland and general, because that's the way it'll come across. Armine was talking about some of the stories she's read. Right, you want to give that person, that admissions person, the same chills that Armine just had when thinking about these.
Speaker 2:Aside from these statements and these essays, if you will, there are also sometimes supplemental essays or questions being asked, depending on the program, depending on depending on where you stand currently, maybe financially or within life.
Speaker 2:So, for example, when I was applying to an MSW program as an undergrad, I remember being asked like what do you know about social workers, ethical values, and tell me about what that looks like for you, tell me about what population you want to work for? And I had to write these supplemental essay responses in addition to my personal statement. And sometimes, depending again, we talked about finances a little bit but sometimes schools, again, depending on the funding and what that looks like, if it's a master's degree, there may be more likely to be financial aid in terms of loans or scholarships that the school can give you. So they'll ask for a financial need essay, right, or some type of documentation. If you do need financial assistance for grad school and like, let's say, you want to go to a master's of English, they may ask for some writing samples, right, or a different type of humanities master's program.
Speaker 2:So you want to be aware that there are not just personal statements and statements of purpose, but there are also other supplemental essays that and documents people can ask you for to see your fit in the program.
Speaker 1:I will say for supplemental essays as well. So for example, for law school, two common questions that they ask for that supplemental essay is a diversity statement and then also why this particular law program. So there could also be other essay questions that individual schools provide, but those tend to be really common ones. And for law school specifically, these essays are optional and so, depending on what you talk about in your personal statement, that will inform whether you should add the optional essay or not. But some schools it's not optional. You also, in addition to your personal statement or statement of purpose, you also have to do the supplemental essay or provide a writing sample.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also just remembered this at the top of my head Sometimes when you're applying to grad school, let's say, as an undergrad you weren't absolutely certain in white career path you wanted to pursue. And let's say, you took some time off right, like say five to seven years, and then you're like, okay, I want to go, I want to continue my education, go to grad school.
Speaker 2:Oh, but I didn't have the highest GPA in undergrad. Maybe you had under 3.0, which is for grad school. It's typically average that you have a 3.0. Grades are also very important, right Academic stature. Let's say you didn't, you had under 3.0 for grad school. For undergrad, there are times, more likely than not, where they ask you to submit an essay explaining why you had a lower GPA than what's expected. And these depend, right, it depends on your story, depends on your situation, depends on the time. Maybe an undergrad you weren't that focused, or maybe you were working three jobs so you can be the financial sole provider of your household. So there are also things that you will be asked to reflect to that happened in your past for grad school in the future. And we want to remind you that grad school application reviews are a holistic in their nature. They're looking at the student, at the applicant as a whole, instead of looking at you in bits and pieces of just academics and what you do.
Speaker 1:Great, okay, so moving on. We talked about resumes, cvs, personal statements versus statement of purpose, supplemental essays, writing samples. Another common application material is some kind of exam, typically GRE, gmat, lsat or another exam. So GRE is the graduate record exam. This is the more general one for most graduate programs, but the GMAT and the LSAT are tailored. The GMAT would be for business-related programs like MBA programs, and then LSAT is for law school. There might be other ones as well, or, if you earned your bachelor's degree in another country, you may be asked to take, like a TOEFL exam or something like that to demonstrate your language competency, in addition to one of these other exams.
Speaker 1:I will say that a lot of graduate programs are starting to remove these exams, though, and the reason for that yes, that is great news. The reason for that is because there's been a lot of research done and they've realized that these exams don't necessarily predict success in your program. The same thing happened with the SATs. If you went to undergrad here, directly to a university, after high school, you know that you had to at some point take the SAT exam. That has been removed by most institutions now, and that's for the same reason. So now it's gotten to the point where graduate schools, even law school, is considering removing the LSAT.
Speaker 1:It's not official yet for law school. But I know, for example for my grad program I wasn't required to do the GRE if my GPA was above 3.0. And in my case that was the case, so I never took that exam. But some programs are completely removing the exam, regardless of your GPA.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's awesome as a whole. The exams stress a lot of students out, to be completely honest, but some, even if they're removed, sometimes we'll say optional, and students will ask us or our clients will ask us, like, is it beneficial for me to take this exam? And if I do good, like should I put it on there? And, of course, if you find that you're in the range that the school is looking for, put it on there. But then I remind you, each time you take one of these exams, it costs hundreds of dollars, right? And if you may not, if you may not score what you want to score.
Speaker 2:How beneficial was that to you? But it's also thinking about like it takes time to prepare for these exams. I would say six months at minimum to prepare for any one of these exams. So you want to be very thoughtful in how you're approaching these materials. The last type of material, I'd say this is like a quote-unquote material, but this is something to consider. Programs when they're deciding who to add them into the program, often want to interview you. They want to see if you are a candidate that they can imagine here in the program, and a lot of the time they do this because they want to get a clear picture of who you are. They want to meet you, they want to hear about your story right, they just want to see how you'll fit with the remaining of the cohort candidates or whatever that may be so interviews for grad school definitely look very different.
Speaker 1:So I had an interview for grad school.
Speaker 2:I remember actually tearing up in my interview for grad school because I was so passionate and my story about why I applied to be a counselor was very heavy. I've grown and I've been able to process it now, but I remember at the time the wound was so fresh if I were to say that, but interviews are definitely something to consider. Not all programs do that and now that COVID has been in our lives, zoom interviews are more popular than ever for grad schools, but that's definitely something to consider.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my grad school interview was a full day.
Speaker 2:Are you serious?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had different components. So there was a group project component where there were people observing us all in the room. It was people from professors to supervisors to current graduate students, all sitting at the ends of the room, and then the candidates. We were in the middle of the room working together on a simulation project and they were observing how we work with one another and then we actually had to supposedly present the content. So they were looking at how we present and I remember there was a situation that happened because we all lined up there must have been around 10 of us or so. We all lined up in just that group.
Speaker 1:We all had to take turns giving our one-minute spiel for that presentation. And there was a girl in that, one of the candidates, who kind of stepped up and said my part, but accidentally it's because she was so nervous I don't remember exactly I mean, this was like over 10 years ago but she said something that she wasn't supposed to say as part of my part, so I had to. Then I waited for her to finish and then I stepped forward and I said the right thing that I had to say and then clarified the whole thing, and I think that works really well in my favor, because I noticed that people observing were looking at each other. They all noticed that there was something off in that situation, but I just kind of kept my cool. I don't even know how that happened. It wasn't something I was prepared for. We're just like okay, I'll let her finish. I'm not going to interrupt her right now. She's in an interview and I understood that because she was nervous.
Speaker 2:but that's how it happened, I was like I'm just going to step forward and say my part.
Speaker 1:I don't know how they'll take it, but then, besides that portion, then there was a whole simulation counseling session we had to do, where we sat in a circle and we all took turns like counseling the person next to us and then being a client. So they wanted to see are we going to be able to be vulnerable because this was a counseling program Are we going to be able to be vulnerable with our peers and in our classes and stuff? So how much are we sharing of ourselves?
Speaker 2:And then what is our?
Speaker 1:natural dynamic in conversations with people. Because obviously we didn't have counseling training yet, but they're just seeing. How do we listen to people? How do we interact with people? We also had a one-on-one component and then I believe there might have been an essay component. If I remember correctly, dang the whole day. It was a whole day thing yeah.
Speaker 2:I had just a one-on-one interview for like 45 minutes to an hour with the program coordinator at the time, but it was very much so and I think it just is the matter of, like, the schools we went to, because mine was very more homie.
Speaker 1:Not to say that CSUN wasn't at all, but I was also an alumni. So I went to the same school.
Speaker 2:I got my undergrad at, so they knew me in some type of form. So my process was a little different. There's a whole another short for another day, but it was a one-on-one interview and it was all about you. It was all about, like you know, in normal interviews they like tell me about yourself, tell me why you want this, tell me what you're thinking about, but I was so young, I was so young. I was like I don't even want to say my age, but I tell you that.
Speaker 2:I was so young and I was the youngest person in my cohort and probably still am, which is beyond me. But I'm glad that you shared how your interview was different parts, because that is something I wanted to refer to too. Is that when you think about interviews for anything right, not just grad school I know we're talking about grad school but even for jobs think about the different formats you're gonna have it could be a one-on-one, which is a more traditional setting.
Speaker 2:It could be a group interview, like Arminay, but also could be like the other parts. You're talking about All righty component, a group presentation component, a presentation on itself, different levels, and it could be day long, it could be a few hours, it could be, like mine, 45 minutes to an hour. So it all depends. But we want to make sure that you're ready, which is why we're talking about the materials and the process, but definitely you want to be prepared for an interview when you're applying to grad school.
Speaker 1:All right, that was a lot of information and that's just some of what we were gonna, what we want to share with you about graduate school, so hopefully you gained some valuable info here. Hopefully it gave you some things to think about. We will continue this topic next time with some other pieces and things we recommend that you think about as you consider graduate school. If you have any questions about anything that was covered today and the materials resources we shared, please don't hesitate to reach out. Our emails, our Instagram, their LinkedIn are all in the show notes, but we will link everything we talked about as well. Those websites specifically, we will link in the show notes and we will see you all next time.
Speaker 2:All righty. Bye everybody. We hope you have a great rest of your week.