Join us to discover the transformative power of exceptional supervision and leadership in our latest episode, where heartfelt experiences, from our careers meet practical advice. Our reflections on personal growth under mentorship and the traits of inspiring leaders are intertwined with stories from our careers—moments that have shaped us and the supervisors who've made an indelible mark on our professional lives.
Effective leadership is an art, and we've dedicated an entire section of our conversation to unpacking its core traits. Listen as we explore mentorship, communication styles that strengthen team unity, and how genuine advocacy can elevate a team's performance. We also tackle the challenges leaders face, from transparency to navigating organizational politics, offering anecdotes and strategies that exemplify the path to inspirational leadership.
The journey towards being a trusted leader comes with its own hurdles, which we tackle head-on in our discussion. We share strategies for building rapport, such as open-door policies and spending time within team environments to encourage open communication. For those aspiring to climb the leadership ladder, our episode provides valuable insights into how to organically grow into a supervisory role and communicate your leadership ambitions effectively. We invite you to self-reflect and contemplate your leadership style and how it aligns with the leaders you admire.
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.mjcareerconfidence.com
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Follow Us on LinkedIn:
Join us to discover the transformative power of exceptional supervision and leadership in our latest episode, where heartfelt experiences, from our careers meet practical advice. Our reflections on personal growth under mentorship and the traits of inspiring leaders are intertwined with stories from our careers—moments that have shaped us and the supervisors who've made an indelible mark on our professional lives.
Effective leadership is an art, and we've dedicated an entire section of our conversation to unpacking its core traits. Listen as we explore mentorship, communication styles that strengthen team unity, and how genuine advocacy can elevate a team's performance. We also tackle the challenges leaders face, from transparency to navigating organizational politics, offering anecdotes and strategies that exemplify the path to inspirational leadership.
The journey towards being a trusted leader comes with its own hurdles, which we tackle head-on in our discussion. We share strategies for building rapport, such as open-door policies and spending time within team environments to encourage open communication. For those aspiring to climb the leadership ladder, our episode provides valuable insights into how to organically grow into a supervisory role and communicate your leadership ambitions effectively. We invite you to self-reflect and contemplate your leadership style and how it aligns with the leaders you admire.
CareeRise: www.careerrise.org
CareerConfidence: www.mjcareerconfidence.com
Follow Us on IG!
Follow Us on LinkedIn:
Hello everyone, welcome back to Coffee and Career Hour.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone, welcome back. It feels like it's been a long time for us, but for you guys, this is your regularly scheduled program One day late. One day late.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I just feel like a long time because we had to delay our recording date just by a few days, but it makes a big difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I am so excited to be back and behind this, this mic. I feel like I've been behind other hats of MJ recently and I'm excited to be here and this is like a safe space and a vulnerable space and the things we're going to talk about today really are going to bring back the different versions of who I was, but I'm excited for today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too. I love the topic we're going to talk about today, and I'm excited because I haven't been in this space for a minute now, and so I think talking about all this is just going to help me. We live those exciting times in my career. So what is today's topic?
Speaker 2:MJ, yeah we are talking about supervision in all kinds of aspects us being supervisors in our current and previous roles, as well as us being supervise ease right, us being on the other side of being supervised as well as the topic of leadership Leadership, I think, as women in the space of education, leadership in our own lives, in our own careers, as well in our own businesses, is what I'm trying to say, as well as what type of leadership do we naturally align ourselves with and who have been leaders in our lives as well in our careers?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how exciting. Well, I know that both of us have had really great supervisors. We've had different styles of supervisors that we've navigated, and we've both been supervisors recently too, so it's going to be really cool to talk about all those different layers. So let's start with our experiences with having really great supervisors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So I'm trying to think back to the first time I ever had a supervisor. I mean that was when I was working, like retail jobs, I want to say, and ever since then I've always drawn eyes of, like the bigger dogs oh, I shouldn't say that that sounds kind of weird of like the top people in the supervising ladder. Mj has always kind of I mean, hopefully you can know this from what I've shared, but Armini knows this I work really hard in everything that I do, so that has really allowed me to catch the attention of higher ups, like I remember working at Old Navy and the like the district regional manager like knew who I was and that was like crazy and I remember like they would have me do special projects and things like that. And just like ever since I was really young and working, I've had, I've drawn the attention of supervisors in a positive way, and higher education and an education in general I feel like I've leaned towards and a supervisor who we've gotten very personal and really close and I always find that I'm I can be that way with my supervisor. I appreciate that because they get to know me holistically.
Speaker 2:I think there are also challenges there, though, when you allow the person to know too much of who you are or you are able to express your whole self. I mean, there are some things there that can interfere with your relationship as a supervisor as well. Right. Is that idea of your supervisor being like a really close friend and you seeing them as a supervisor at work right, but off work they can be like a peer or someone you can rely on in general life. Yeah, I'm like thinking and talking, so I don't think I'm doing a very good job, but you tell me about your good supervisors.
Speaker 1:No, you're doing great. I think you make some really valid points about like the supervisor basically having boundaries with with your supervisor right, because it could be someone who's close in age with you or someone you really connect with as a peer and they could be your friend outside of that role, but then that really impacts the way you see them if they are in at work, if they're your supervisor. So it is really important to kind of keep those boundaries. In my experience there have been some really, really great leaders that I've been lucky to call supervisors in my early days in my career. So if we start with, like grad school, when I was a grad student I had a couple of great mentors who were when I was a counselor. In training they were also already counselors. One of them, she was a career counselor. She worked at the career center. She was my counseling supervisor. So actually she's a friend to me now, but our relationship started as a supervisor, supervisor role and she she guided me in my learning process, which I loved. So I would say she was probably my first great supervisor. And then I've had a couple more along the way in graduate school, either my internship sites or in my like practicum learning when we were doing like videotape recordings as counselors and training and things like that. I've had great mentors there and then when I did had my full time job my first full time job I had an amazing supervisor at that time.
Speaker 1:This is when I was working as an academic advisor and this person was the director of the academic advising center and we. She was great because she allowed us so some of her traits. She allowed us to really explore and get creative in the work that we did, even if sometimes she knew like the ideas we had maybe weren't going to work. But she allowed us to try it and learn on our own. But we did have that friendly relationship with her as well where we could trust her. She really made the team feel like family. She brought warmth and she brought cohesiveness into the team, while also challenging us to step out of our comfort zones and try new things and really, like I think, did a good job in navigating, like, the politics of the larger institution along with the team. There's always politics right, even within the team. I think she navigated those politics effectively because she was able to really improve a lot of the things that we did at that center, while also making work fun for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you said mentors and how now your previous supervisors are your friends in real life, I'm thinking like I mean, I haven't been alive that long in my career, right.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking about like how, when I was in grad school, I had a lot of amazing mentors and who are still my mentors and some of them funny enough because of the positions I have now are like my supervisors and things like that, just for lack of a different word and I work with them in a different capacity, where it's no longer there's not that initial relationship as it used to be, where I was like a student and they're known as a teacher, but now we're colleagues, we're working collaboratively, even though technically they're still my supervisor.
Speaker 2:And it's amazing because I've had a great combination of individuals who have allowed me some have been a little bit more hands-on, right, and I like that. Sometimes, especially I'm somebody who's atypical, right, Show me what you want to do, tell me what you want to do, tell me by when, and I've had people who are like do it whenever and do it the way you like and how you envision, and it's a little bit more looser and have really helped me really hone in on my own skills and developed new ones as well, and I think that their form of being a supervisor really has shaped my experience to how I am as a supervisor as well. Right, I've been able to experience in my short time in education the good, I don't want to say the bad but I've had some hiccups here and there with supervisors and a little bit of the ugly where I've had to walk away from situations before, and all of these situations have really shaped my experience and how I approach now supervising my students as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I can see that because you kind of learn from the supervisors that you've had, like what worked and what didn't work being in the supervisee seat, and now that you're able to be a leader and guide and mentor other folks, you're kind of taking in. Well, what did I appreciate when I was in their shoes? I love that. I think that's what makes you a great supervisor actually is that you remember what it's like to be in their shoes, coming in fresh, not knowing how to navigate the work, or like being a student right, like you're supervising graduate students right now and you were a grad student like not too long ago. So remembering, like what it's like to come into an office setting, being your first time there in a professional setting, and the anxiety that might come with that or the imposter syndrome that comes with that, and I know that like you always have that at the forefront of your mind, which is what makes you a great supervisor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, recently a clear example of this was, I think, like last week or the week before, one of my supervisees it wasn't able to, isn't able to attend a future training we're going to have right. So she let me know and of course I was like oh, like no problem, and I basically she felt that that was the end of the conversation. So I paused and I said you know, let's think about this a little bit, right, you are unable to make this training that we knew was supposed to happen. As I want to give you some guidance that I wish somebody would have given me when I used to do this or when I wasn't able to make something, I want to let you know that in some type of situation like this, where you're not able to make a regularly scheduled meeting, I want you to think about how you can problem solve, to troubleshoot this issue. How can you find a solution to a challenge that you know is already going to be coming right? So for your supervisor not even talking about me, but in their future, when they're postgraduate and they're in their full-time jobs, they're able to demonstrate that skill and show their supervisor, oh, I'm able to use this and this skill right.
Speaker 2:And we kind of talked through that and walked through and it was awesome. I remember telling my supervisor later that day I was like, oh my God, like good job, supervisor MJ, because it was so nice and I felt for the first time like that hat really was on my head securely and it was so cool. And the student was like thank you so much, like I would have never thought about that right, and now you're helping me hone in on my skills as a professional for the future. I just was like I experienced that recently and I was like, oh, I felt so good, it was awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. So it sounds like you were essentially teaching them a new skill, but like guiding them to figure out that skill on their own. Which?
Speaker 1:I think is really great Traits of a good supervisor. Actually, it's now that I'm a parent. I'm thinking that's a good trait of being a parent as well. It's essentially guiding them to figure it out on their own. I mean, that goes back to everything we've learned about in psychology. I know both of us were psychology majors and anyone listening out there who might have studied psychology or sociology probably know what we're talking about here too. But that is one of the great traits of being a good leader or supervisor. What other traits, would you say MJR or characteristics are there of great leaders?
Speaker 2:Leaders. Yeah, I would say one is their communication style and their way in which they bring a group together. So for communication, it's how. So, like as a supervisor and as a leader, you know there are times where you got to break really good news and there are times where you got to break really challenging news. For example, as a leader, if I know I'm going to break challenging news for a part of my team or my whole team, I want to ensure like I'm thinking back to supervisors I've had who have done that right, where they also demonstrate their advocacy for the team they're leading and I've know that was something I also had to do for my, for my grad students a couple months ago.
Speaker 2:But something I've always seen in is in a in I'm thinking about a specific leader have had in my life I've always seen them communicate, ensure that the team feels secure. The team comes first, right, no matter what decision is being made and the form in which they communicate, that they allow the team to feel seen, validated and appreciated and it's how you communicate that with your team and also has to go with your actions right. So one is communication style and ensuring that everyone feels validated, everyone feels part of the team as well and included in this decision is one thing. The other thing that I see for a leader that I really appreciate, or what traits is there, is their ability to think larger scale and impacts that could affect the team. In a leader I appreciate someone who thinks kind of outside the box, where I always catch myself kind of like when I always there have been moments where I'm like dang, like I wish I would have thought about that, like, or I responded too quickly and I didn't really think that through and I've seen my my own leaders at in my current roles respond to something different and I'm like oh yeah, I didn't even think about that. So I think it's also your ability to kind of pivot from individualistic and an individualistic approach to a situation to a larger scale as well as seeing how it could impact your team and in a larger capacity I'm trying to think of like different care, like obviously like positivity.
Speaker 2:You want to have a leader who's positive, but also someone who serves with you. Those are also two traits, and that goes to servant leadership as a type of leadership as well. I align myself a lot with the with the traits of a servant leader, someone who leads with their team right, and does does things to support other individuals as well right, you're not only serving for a greater purpose, but also turning around and serving your own team as well. That's kind of like a general view of the traits that I see. What about you, armin? You're also an amazing leader. I've seen you grow and evolve and learned a lot from you, so I'm also thinking about you. You're one of those leaders in my head too.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're too kind, but thank you Well, so of course, I agree with all the traits that you mentioned, and one thing that I've been thinking about that I've seen in great leaders is someone who is transparent. But when I say transparent, what I mean is when, when your team knows that your intentions are good and and that you're aligned with their vision, if that makes sense. Because if you're transparent but, let's say, you're not doing the work alongside your team, like you're talking about servant leadership, or you're transparent and it's it's like well, this is what, what you know, what the university wants, for example, or this is what the company wants, but you're not like doing the work alongside them, your intentions aren't the same as your team's intentions, then that's not effective transparency. I'm thinking transparent, but also be in line with your team's vision, because there's always going to be politics, where people who are in leadership roles are like stuck in between different layers. Right there they have leaders themselves or they have bigger folks that they need to respond to, or there's like budget issues, no matter what kind of company or industry work and there's going to be, like politics, budget issues, and there's going to be different layers of employees and leadership.
Speaker 1:So anyone who's in management roles they are always stuck between their leaders and their employees, and so I'm thinking someone who's in that middle role needs to be transparent about what's happening on the upper end but also be basically on the floor along with their teammates or their employees to so that the employees will trust them and know that, okay, this person does have the same vision, does care about the work the way that we care about the work and is working just as hard as we're working, and even though there's going to be holes in the there's going to be holes and different things that like don't maybe the employees aren't happy about that's coming from even higher up management, but at least they'll trust their immediate leader because that their immediate leader is being open about what's happening and they're they're genuine in the work that they're doing.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I think I wonder about that in a roundabout way, but what I'm trying to say is genuine. It being genuine and being transparent and working just as hard as your team is and that builds trust and that's one. Somebody I think can then make the difference, like we're talking about being a good leader, making a difference for your team and stuff. You can do that, once you've established that trust, I think I 100% agree.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking about somebody who, when you were explaining that, I was like thinking about a messenger and I was thinking of a messenger and that's not what we're talking about, right, somebody who just runs back and forth and tells team and be exactly what the other said, but more as somebody who is physically involved. Right is is serving a team or being that middle person, but also turning around and saying, okay, how can I support I agree, this is what I see, this is what I'm hearing and getting a collective thought and vision, but also doing the work alongside them. I've had leaders who kind of just give orders and that's. That's a trade that I actually really don't like.
Speaker 2:I don't like when leaders kind of just say this and this needs to happen, like make it happen. It doesn't feel like I'm part of anything and I just feel like I'm just like a little robot just doing the work. It doesn't feel good that way. I don't feel. I mean, appreciation is one thing as a human being that we need, but like I just really didn't enjoy. Those are one more of one of the situations where I've had to walk away. I mean that was part of the problem, but yeah, but I, you said that, just fine. I totally am seeing that in my head.
Speaker 1:I'm glad and I have all our listeners will also vision and vision. What I was saying to you, and I think another trade is someone who can. I think one person can impact the team significantly, regardless if they're in a supervision role or not, but especially if someone is in a leadership role, they have even more of that authority and that space to have an impact on the team right, and so bringing the team together, I think, is so important. I've seen a team go from not being so cohesive to becoming more cohesive, and and a big part of that has been just the right leadership or doing little things like let's go out to lunch or I'm bringing coffee for our team meeting or something like that Little, little things over time like that bring the team together.
Speaker 1:But now, when I look back, this leader that I'm thinking about was actually very intentional in doing those things, and genuine, of course, but also doing it intentionally to really bring the team together, and it's it shaped the way, though, like we all did work together, it really impacted once we became more cohesive. So I think that the someone who's in a leadership role needs to be intentional about making sure the team comes together, and it's never going to be perfect, because there's different teams comprised of different people and different work ethics and different personalities. So it's never going to be perfect, but but having that positive energy that the leader can bring to at least make an effort to bring everybody together is really, really important, I think.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I, when you said the word intention, immediately like that, that's the guy to me. You have to be intentional as a leader to what you do. There has to be a greater purpose and especially if you're serving, I mean any type of team, big or small. You want to bring them together, not necessarily as like family, right, like the goal doesn't always have to be like family with one another, but where there is, is like peace and and everybody enjoys the work that they're doing and is and is feels fulfilled, and their role as well. I love that. All right, armin. Those are things that we look for and characteristics we love. What about some of the things that we may not enjoy about leaders? Or things that you've experienced, or just overall as a supervisor, maybe some things that we've caught ourselves doing like oh, maybe I shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1:Great question. I would have to say the first thing that comes to mind and there's more, but the first thing that comes to mind is when I don't see the genuine care in a leader about the work that it needs to be done, that really turns me off, because then I'm like I don't know why you're in this field and I don't know why you're in this position. Right, there are a lot of people who really care about the work and have great leadership skills who can be in that role. So I question that. So for me, I first need to see the genuine, actual, like someone who's knowledgeable about the work, first of all being knowledgeable about the work that they're doing. Second of all, actually genuinely care about the work that they're doing. So those two are like top priority first, and then I'll start sharing more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to agree with you with caring about the work that you do. I, like you, we both throw 110% into the work that we do, and we do it with such a gentle hand but also with this amount of passion that I think you really have to just genuinely want to do this type of work. And when I see someone who is not really engaged right 110% or this is more like a second thought for them, the work that we do and is more focused on, like the bigger picture or something else that really doesn't have to do with the service that is done and the type of work that's completed I don't enjoy that. I feel like their head is not fully in the game and we're not on the same page, because I can want and love the work that I do, but if I see that you're not also as well, I don't really feel inspired to keep doing this for you or under you as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think too and this goes for especially folks who have been like, maybe have worked their way up to like higher levels of leadership I noticed that sometimes they forget what it's like to do the job, and so they're so far removed from the level of work that their employees are doing that they really don't have that empathy anymore for the challenges that their employees are facing.
Speaker 1:And so and that's natural, I think that happens over time, as people work their way up and start to deal with other types of issues and other types of responsibilities that they have in that higher level leadership role. Obviously it makes sense they're going to become far removed, but someone who can at least make an effort to still be in the shoes of their employees and understand the challenges because you have to understand the challenges to be able to help facilitate change and make a positive impact in whatever kind of work you guys are doing. So I think it's hard for me to see leaders who are so far removed that they forgot in what it's like to do the work. Even though that's a natural thing, that happens. I think that that's something that really irks me when I see that.
Speaker 2:What do you think is one way in which I'm like thinking about you and I, and I'm like dang, I don't want to grow up to be a leader who becomes far removed. So what do you think are things or strategies that we can work on as we progress in our careers to not stay far removed from the work that we do?
Speaker 1:That's a great question.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's from staying up to date on what's happening in the industry, whether that's through reading or conferences and things like that, or maybe it's even something simpler like just spend time with your employees, actually go visit them, go spend a day, kind of like a job shadow thing I know people might not have the time to do that but to actually make an effort to do that.
Speaker 1:Go spend an hour or two in that setting where your staff is doing the work and just observe and plus have conversations with them and actually have a good time, like make it a fun time, but observe them and see what's happening. I think that's probably the best way, once somebody is in that role, to be able to and things change right. Like, by the time, let's say, you and I are maybe in that level of leadership, the work that we do is probably going to look different as the world is changing and technology is advancing and things like that. So who knows what counseling is going to be like in the future? But going back and actually talking to your employees and giving your employees that space to come talk to you, like actually have an open door policy where they feel comfortable to come talk to you, so you have those one-on-ones and build that relationship with them, because then you can hear the challenges first hand from them as well. But they need to trust you first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as a leader, I'm thinking about that and I'm like immediately I got anxiety just thinking about if one of our leaders or anybody in any supervisor or leader in my different identities were to say, come tell me about some of the challenges you're facing, I would first thought would be want to be honest, but then I'm nervous, right Immediately, get scared, and I think that's a lot what happens during one-on-one meetings with supervisors or things, or different leaders in our role, right? Or maybe the boss of your boss comes in for a team meeting and says what are some things you guys are hearing and facing? And there's a first gut instinct of you to want to be immediately honest and then you kind of say no, I'm not. And I'm thinking about how can a leader show their genuine care for, to invite that honesty and that transparency between their employees and what's happening? And I think one of the only times that that can happen and that happens genuinely is during an exit interview.
Speaker 2:For those that don't know, an exit interview is something that happens when you decide to leave a position or team or organization and there's not necessarily a question, there's not necessarily a, there's not necessarily a set of questions that's asked, but it's more of a simple conversation between you and your supervisor or the leader at the time right, where you're just honest about your experience with the company, honest about some of the positives, the highs, the lows and things like that. So what came to mind was an exit interview.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I'm thinking, you know I'm not going to say that, I'm not going to say that I'm thinking you know you're right Like if your boss's boss calls you and says tell me about your challenges. And so far most of us wouldn't feel comfortable being genuine but being completely honest in that kind of setting. But I think that what can remedy that is it doesn't have to be this formal meeting that is called upon where it's like come in, you have this one time, one space to actually talk about the challenges, but then, like you never interact with that person ever again or like you only interact with them and once a month meetings or something like that.
Speaker 1:No, I think that it needs to be where this person actually spends time right with their staff whether, again, whether it's having like lunch together or whether it's just going and visiting them, and they're in their regular natural habitat and their space when they're doing their work and, over time, building those relationships and that trust, and in those moments is when those conversations happen. That's when it could be natural, because also then the leader might observe something right, like if you're there spending time with your staff, you might notice some things and then that will spark a conversation that helps your staff open up, as opposed to just sitting in your office space where they're not comfortable, it's not their habitat right, and they're called to come to you and then you're asking them what are the challenges right Now? You need to be in their space and their habitat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm remembering. I don't know if you've ever experienced this harmony, but like in high school or elementary school, when the principal comes to sit in your class and they observe the teacher, and then you're like, I mean the next day or at recess or whatever, you're like, oh my gosh, did you notice that so and so taught so differently? Or like we actually did this and this and we didn't just do like the normal I'm immediately. That drew me back to like elementary school, when the principal would sit in your class and you all had to behave and the teacher actually taught something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, you make a good point Like then, with the leadership being there in that space, that would impact the way people do their jobs too. So that's a caveat there. But you know, I think it all kind of. I think trying out different things and in my, different things might work with different teams too. So anyone who's in that leadership space I think needs to try out different things to see what works with their team.
Speaker 1:But the ultimate goal is to build trust with your teammates and then everything else will follow, because when they trust you, then they can be open about challenges. And then if you have the vision and the criteria like you were saying, someone who has a bigger picture vision then that leader can take the challenges and look at the bigger picture and try to help their employees, improve the situations for their employees, so the work can be done better and people will be more fulfilled. I mean, that's the ultimate goal. Right, it's probably not going to be one formula, but I think these are just things that we've seen that have worked or haven't worked with our leadership over the years, with different supervisors we've had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what are some challenges of leadership, of being a leader yourself, arminay, or that you've seen in, just in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll start by saying I love being a supervisor. It's something that like comes from within me, I don't know. I just absolutely adore that kind of role, and so I've supervised graduate students and undergraduate students for a few years now in different kind of capacities and I would say let's see challenges of being a supervisor. I think one of the biggest challenges is when working I'll probably say when working with student employees.
Speaker 1:Scheduling is a huge challenge. It might not sound like a big deal now in this conversation, but with student employees, scheduling is huge because their schedules are very limited. Of course, it's not the same as supervising a full-time employee who works there for 40 hours and you know that they're on the clock between the hours of 9 am and 5 pm or so forth. It's not like that. So with student employees and people who work in retail and stuff will probably resonate with this too, because of course, most of the folks working in retail are also maybe students themselves and have limited schedules or are working part-time and so forth. So I think that folks in that industry might resonate.
Speaker 1:But scheduling is a huge challenge because anytime I want to do some of those leadership things like bring the team together or do an activity or do a training where I see there's a gap in knowledge and something. So I want to train everybody and I want everybody to get the same training at the same time so that we can engage in like fruitful discussion and everyone can learn from one another, because I think that's the best way to learn. But then we come across a challenge where not everyone can be there at the same time. So then I have to adjust as a leader. How can I still get this information across and how can I ensure that people are learning, even if it's not in this ideal environment where everyone can be together? So I would say that all kind of gets summarized under a scheduling challenge. What about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I have to agree the scheduling. I mean I only you do weigh I think you do like four times the amount of students that I supervise. But I agree One. Something like a challenge that kind of came to my head is I have a vision of how I want things to go and it just doesn't work out that. When it doesn't work out that way, I like feel just disappointed, defeated, and I'm like what did I do wrong that it just didn't flow Right.
Speaker 2:And sometimes it's just because you never know who's going to walk through the door, you don't know their personality yet, you don't know what they know, you're unsure of what their experiences have been in the past. So you're kind of getting to know the person right. And when you have a plan, let's say the their first day or their first week, you have this whole training schedule and it just doesn't flow the way you envision. That always breaks my heart. Right, like they're there.
Speaker 2:It just I remember that my supervisee's first week I could not come to the office because my partner had COVID, right, like I literally like relied on my team, I relied on you, I relied on other members of our team to support me because I their supervisor could not be there and it just didn't happen the way I envisioned and ever since then you know like I've tried my best to ensure that they have the right tools and just be there in every which way that I can. It has to do a lot with learning their style of being supervised as well and being open to people's needs, concerns and just giving yourself permission to also be flexible and adapt and open to whatever they need to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100 percent, because I know that, like as a supervisor, I always go in with the plan, like I have an idea of what are some some topics that I need my staff to, like you know, be trained on and be knowledgeable about, and then, when, when they come in through the door, they're coming at different levels too. So some folks have a little bit more training from previous jobs. Other folks maybe this is their first job and they haven't had, they haven't worked in a space like this before, and so they're coming with different skill sets than than their teammates, right? So it's also navigating, like who's coming in the door and what different skill levels they're coming in with, and how do you adapt, as a supervisor, to their different skill sets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also think, like finding a dynamic between whoever the team is right, like between you and your student staff, you and your co-supervisor, whatever that is there's a special dynamic that happens. And when it doesn't happen the way you envision, it's kind of frustrating and I think it sucks, because whoever who gets like the the short end of the stick are the students you supervise, are the people you supervise. Most recently I've been asked to supervise one single student as an undergrad student and I felt like pretty nervous because I was the first time I like independent, like independently kind of get to do this and I first time meeting the student. And it was interesting because I thought I had a plan right, I thought I knew what we're going to talk about and things like that. And the day was just not a great day for me.
Speaker 2:And when it came time to to that right, like I had to kind of adjust my mind sense. You know, this is not the student's fault. I need to show them that I can be a great leader as well. At the same time and they were, I think, equally a little bit nervous and hesitant to to whatever was happening. But you know, once they got to know me I mean it's been a couple of weeks now Everything's all fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I think it's trial and error too. You know, as a supervisor it's like, yeah, you, you have experience, you have skills, that's why you're in that role. But that doesn't mean that it's not a one size fits all approach. So that doesn't mean that what works with your previous staff is going to work again with this, this staff right, so it's really adjusting. I think, actually, that that leads me to like that's one of the qualities that I would look for in a leader is someone who can adapt and be mindful of their, their employees, styles and preferences. That I think that's huge and being a good leader.
Speaker 2:Yeah, armin, how can one as a, as a staff member, as this, just a, you know, an employee with a non supervision, non leadership type of role, demonstrate that skill set and and aim to become a supervisor or leader in some type of capacity in their job?
Speaker 1:Wow, great question. Well, I always say you have to demonstrate leadership to get a leadership position. Right, no one is ever going to hand you a leadership position. I have worked with folks in the past to have kind of, you know, waited until they got a leadership position to show leadership, and it didn't work out so well for them. Because the thing is, when you're, if you want to be in that kind of role, you have to show people the skills that you have so that when the time comes, a position opens up your thought of and your recommended and people want to hire you for that role. So, with that said, isn't there saying that says just for the job you want, not the job you want? Yeah.
Speaker 1:This is a prime example of that Dress like a leader and I say that metaphorically, but also also dress like a leader, but be a leader in within your own teammates. So if you think about, like let's take this out of the context of work, think about people in a friend group. There's always somebody who's kind of taking on the leadership role in a friend group too, organizing events, getting people together, you know, kind of taking on that like responsibility to initiate, because and that's out of the work context. So think about in a work setting too, it's totally okay and actually needed for somebody to do that within their team too. Because I think sometimes people might feel like, oh, it's not my place in a work setting to do that because I'm not in a leadership role. But no, people respond like human beings, like this might sound bad, but like to follow someone who's a leader.
Speaker 1:There is that natural tendency to do that when somebody establishes themselves as a leader. I think doing that whether that, if you think about it, you might do that in your friend group, you might do that in your family dynamics, do that within your work team as well, try different things. It doesn't have to be this aggressive leadership approach. It could be simple things like just making sure. Let's say, somebody calls off a day from work. Take on that role to say, let's make sure that the shift is covered, let's make sure that everything is going to run smoothly, even though this person is out this day. Don't assume that the manager will handle it. Yeah, they probably will. But if you want to establish yourself as a leader, that's one simple way to do. That is whenever you know that maybe a challenge might arise because somebody is out of their shift. Try to prevent that challenge from arising and you're already going to establish yourself as a leader in that context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one thing I do want to add too, and this is something that I don't feel like is talked about as much, because the first thing that came to mind when I asked you was take initiative. Just take initiative wherever it is. If you see that there's no more paper for the printer, go get some more paper or figure out how to order some. I know that sounds really silly, but that's true. I vividly remember you and I carrying reams of paper downstairs because there was no paper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or we cleaned up the printer room before the semester started, because it needed to be cleaned up so that things could run smoothly when it was going to be busy in the semester. So, preventing that challenge from happening, we took that initiative.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh man, I miss you so much. But, yes, take initiative. The other thing I do want to add, though and again, this is not something that I don't hear a lot of people talking about this is tell your current supervisor that you are seeking to strengthen your leadership role. Obviously, inform them. You're not out for their job, that's not what you're doing, but that you want to. Maybe in your team meeting, can you take on the last half, or can you take on a certain section? Or if there is a retreat coming up, how can you get involved? Or if there is a new project you've been assigned, how can you create the outline or pick who the teammates are, or take on a different area of that project? So, also communicate that with your current leadership.
Speaker 2:That's exactly actually what I did to be able to be a supervisor. Yes, I demonstrated the skills beforehand, but I physically or verbally asked can I supervise X, y and Z? Is that an opportunity that I can take on? And of course, I had to make some adjustments to my current plate of work, but I was still able to do that, and then, from that experience, I got asked again to supervise another student this year. So it just goes to show that even asking and saying you want to hone in on the skill, what the benefits are to you and you're developing as a professional, can also support you in being a leader and a supervisor as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, 100%. Like being out front about it, I think is super important too, but then also like making sure you're demonstrating those skills when you do ask, so that they feel confident in saying I've seen you take leadership already. So, yes, I feel comfortable in you now actually formally taking on this supervision role, because I've seen you be a leader, so you do want to make sure you're demonstrating the skills before you ask. But, yes, asking outright is, I think, really important as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, this is a hefty conversation about supervising and leadership and seeing the different characteristics and styles we've seen, and you and I have given some great tips and advice into how to become a leader in your current role Some of the favorite aspects we have, some of the challenges we've had, but also how to pivot and work your way around them. We do truly hope that this episode serves as an opportunity for you to reflect on your supervision, on your supervisor Maybe, if you're a supervisor, how you supervise and manage a team, or what you like about your leadership and what characteristics you also strive to show, so you can be a leader one day in your roles as well. I'm trying to think of anything else to add, armin, any of anything else to add.
Speaker 1:I think we're going to end it right here, but please do send us any comments, questions that you might have about leadership supervision in general. If you want to ask your supervisor to be a supervisor and you don't know how to do that, feel free to message us. We can definitely work with you and guide you in that process as well. But hopefully this episode has been helpful and inspiring and provokes you to reflect on your role and your leadership style as well.
Speaker 2:Alrighty, everybody, we will see you next time.